Over a year of trade rumors surrounding Corey Kluber came to an end this afternoon, as the Indians dealt their longtime ace to the Rangers in exchange for outfielder Delino DeShields and right-hander Emmanuel Clase (plus $500K, in a split of the $1MM assignment bonus Kluber received in the event of a trade). Here are some of the early takes on the trade, plus some of the potential aftershocks that might yet be forthcoming…
- Kluber’s struggles and drop in velocity at the start of the 2019 season are a concern, ESPN’s Keith Law writes in a subscriber-only piece, while Clase is a very intriguing young reliever. That said, Cleveland’s overall trade return is “so light compared to what Kluber was as recently as 2018 that it feels like this was a move to dump salary rather than a way to rebuild with younger players.” Kluber is owed $17.5MM in 2020 and is controlled via an $18MM club option for 2021 (with a $1MM buyout).
- What the Tribe will do with this newfound payroll space is on the minds of Marc Carig and Jason Lloyd as part of The Athletic’s writers roundtable of opinions on the trade (subscription required). The club could be content to just pocket the savings as part of a more thorough rebuild that could include a Francisco Lindor trade this winter. But, with the Indians still in position to contend within a weak AL Central, dealing Kluber could create enough payroll relief to make the team even less likely to move Lindor in the short term, and spend the money saved on Kluber to address other needs. “Given the number of teams that were involved in the Kluber rumors, it’s hard to dispute that this was the best return they [the Indians] could fetch,” Lloyd writes, with Ken Rosenthal also noting that Cleveland might have been concerned that Kluber’s value could further decline prior to the 2020 trade deadline.
- Indians president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti discussed the deal with reporters (including The Athletic’s Zack Meisel and MLB.com’s Mandy Bell) and addressed the “variety of different packages” offered by “a lot of teams that had interest in Corey.” One of the factors that helped sway the talks in the Rangers’ direction was that Clase and DeShields are “two players that could come back and help us in 2020 and help us try to sustain the level of competitiveness we’ve had over the last seven years.” Even in the short amount of time since the trade was announced, Antonetti revealed that some teams had already called to ask if Clase was available in a follow-up deal.
- The Angels were one of the teams known to have interest in Kluber, though Jeff Fletcher of the Southern California News Group (Twitter link) reports that the Indians wanted highly-touted outfield prospect Brandon Marsh and another top-10 prospect from the Halos’ farm system. It was a significant ask, given how Marsh is widely considered to be the Angels’ second-best prospect (after Jo Adell) and is ranked by Fangraphs as the 74th-best prospect in all of baseball. If Cleveland was seeking for such a return for Kluber from the various teams in the hunt, Fletcher notes that it could be a sign that “they have a much higher opinion of Clase than most of baseball.”
- While DeShields’ lack of hitting kept him from being an everyday player in Arlington, his departure creates more questions within an already uncertain Rangers outfield mix. Texas GM Jon Daniels told MLB.com’s T.R. Sullivan and other reporters that the Rangers will look for an experienced center field through either a trade or a signing, though for now, utilityman Danny Santana is penciled in as the club’s center fielder. Over his career, Santana has posted subpar fielding numbers (-7.2 UZR/150, -10 Defensive Runs Saved) over 1108 innings as a center fielder, and he has more overall value to Texas a player who can be shifted around the diamond rather than locked into an ill-fitting position.
- Daniels said his front office first discussed Kluber with the Indians earlier in the offseason, and only circled back after the Winter Meetings, and after the Rangers came up short in their attempts to sign Anthony Rendon. Negotiations became more serious once Texas agreed to move Clase as part of the deal, speaking again to how highly Cleveland values Clase’s ability.
maximumvelocity
It’s time for the White Sox to make moves.
The division is up for the taking, yet they are still shopping in the bargain aisle after losing out on Wheeler.
thomps07
You have to be careful though. You don’t want to spend blindly just to spend or you will end up like Baltimore with Chris Davis.
Bronyaur111
The White Sox will say that they are pursuing Ryu, then will be shocked when their 2 year $15 million offer falls short.
jorge78
LOL right!
joparx
Sox should’ve signed bumgarner, that was the move the needed after wheeler fell through
Kdag23
As a Twins fan I will say that I like where you guys are headed. I like the Sox and think they have a great core of young players. To say that the division is up for the taking is a bit of a stretch though; you guys were 6-13 against the Twins last season so I think there’s some ground to be made up and the Twins are pretty much bringing everyone back from last season.
Having said that, I think both teams are afflicted with the same mentality of not being really committed to going for it. Should be interesting.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
A lot of the Twins seemed to have career years last year. I expect a little regression. That said, you’re right, unless the Sox sign Keuchel or Ryu and sign a real RF, there’s going to be a gap this coming year. I can’t believe they haven’t moved on from Wheeler.
jd396
Most of baseball had a career year last year.
iml12
Unless the white Sox hit homeruns on every prospect they are no where near the twins or the Indians.
bjupton100
They are hitting them. We all fault the Tatis trade and we still should but, they had an infield pretty much set with young phenoms. Don’t forget they’re thinking (all teams, gm’s etc) about years in advance not reacting to everything as it happens. They probably already had identified Madrigal as the person they were interested in, at least a year in advance. Moncada, Madrigal, and Beckham. 3rd, 2nd, SS, what were they supposed to do with Tatis? Now I’ll answer the obvious, either they didn’t believe in Tatis, (I think he signed for $300,000 at least that’s what the last person I heard from said) nor did the Cardinals or Tb for that matter. I would have thought StLouis would have at least tried, (they had his father on their team when he hit two grandslams in the same game, same inning) Tb could have offered Oddorizzi, who might not have had the same ceiling as James but making ten million less or more a year and the extra year of control (I believe) should have made them fairly equally in trade value. If he’d have gone to Tb/Cards he’d probably have the same number of games under his belt with less service time but Tb would have extended him (If possible) and I believe the Cards would have tried as well for something along the lines of Eloy, or Acuna.
Tb would have him and Franco coming up right after each other and would have been compelled to trade for Correa/Lindor (I believe Lindor was/is more likely) to consolidate prospects/players. Addams, KK, Yarborough, Bauers (hitter) Castillo/Alvarado Hunter $5,000,000 and Pagan+ for Lindor, Diaz, and a fringe 40 man. It seems light until you look at the Kluber trade. I’m sure they might not want Yarborough, KK is mainly about money but the Indians need a Cf pretty bad and KK could be traded for salary dump for a “prospect”. Bauer and $5,000,000 was another trade with them so if it happened last year they could have traded them all together. Wood was another trade to them. Heck the Rays could have made a similar offer to the one Texas did, then trade Kluber+ to the Angels for Addel. Maybe they don’t add him, but a couple million with Kluber and one of their rp’s, and they’re getting around the value.
racosun
Lest ye forget, there is another Tatis. Yes, there is another.
ColossusOfClout
They got WHO??? Where are all the Tribe fans who were saying previous offers for Kluber were too weak to consider? LMAO what a clown show!!!
melkor77
Sure, but every fan base does this.
kidbryant
You obviously dont know who Emmanuel Clase is.
Moneyballer
They have made moves. Nomar Mazara, Yasmani Grandal. I wouldnt expect to hear many more deals from Chicago. They already plugged two big holes in their lineup. I guess they could sign a pitcher but if we’re honest, this may not be the offseason to do so.
stevenbaker
Teams must really see the Angels coming. Their #2 prospect and a top ten prospect from their farm? The Tribe didn’t get anywhere near that value from Texas.
towinagain
Where will the Indians go? To rip the Padres off in another trade.
Dbird777
Deal Lindor to the Reds for Winker, India and Lodolo probably.
redsfan54
Lol stop it
Dbird777
I know you’re hoping they’ll take Mahle, Casali and Ervin for him, so….Lol stop it.
Michael Chaney
That’s…not enough.
Dbird777
An OF who can hit .300/.400, our Top IF and P prospects for a guy with 2 years of control left is a hell of a deal for the Tribe.
But if you’d rather wait for the lone comp pick….
AndyMeyer
You mean the guy who hit .269 and can’t hit left handed pitching? The tribe hang up the phone
Better teams have better prospects to offer for one of the best in the game
Michael Chaney
If you really think Winker will hit .300/.400, then you keep thinking that. The Reds’ top two prospects still aren’t gonna do it.
That’s not an indictment on them, but two years of a top 10 player in the game is gonna cost a lot.
Dbird777
Yet, they won’t part with them so they’re out. And Winker had a down year of batting average because he, along with everyone else, was swinging for the fences. He gets back to remembering he’s a line-drive hitter and OBP guy and shows the teams that don’t trade for him now are making a big mistake.
Dbird777
The problem for the Tribe is that time isn’t on their side. Realmuto, the top player at his position (also with 2 years of control left) was worth one Sixto Sanchez. This offer’s considerably better. The Dodgers aren’t trading Lux or May and the Padres aren’t trading Gore or Tatis (or Patino for that matter)
thetruth 2
LA would trade both Lux and May in a heartbeat for Lindor, if Cleveland were willing to trade him.
Dbird777
Lol. If that were even remotely true the deal would be done already because the Tribe would’ve hopped on it.
Melchez
Rutherford. Seeing what the tribe got for Kluber, I dont think they ever put the phone down. Deshields and a relief pitcher for a two time cy young winner?
AndyMeyer
And if and when he “gets back” to remembering how to be a line drive, OBP guy (and in the majors, not the minors), maybe the tribe will listen.
They already have a 3B prospect in Nolan Jones and pitching depth with Tristan McKenzie. They’re not dealing you one of the best players in the game without getting what they need in return
Any deal with the red legs for Lindor starts with Senzel
MrAngelFan
@thetruth LA doesn’t want to trade Lux for Lindor. They already believe that Lux will be better than Lindor in a couple of years. I guarantee that any package to Cleveland will not include Lux.
hockeyjohn
Then the Dodgers do not get Lindor.
AndyMeyer
No Lux, no Lindor
Netflix&RichHill
I thought this was a crazy idea at first. I wanted to say you were crazy. But in terms of surplus value, it might actually make sense. Not sure it would actually get it done – it really depends on what Cleveland’s valuations of India and lodolo are, and they may want another piece that is already mlb ready – but to other people saying this is crazy – it’s really not.
Michael Chaney
No, it’s still not good enough. It’s definitely not as bad as a lot of other offers I see in comments sections, but it’s gonna take a haul to get him.
matteste187
If I’m the Mets I’d offer Gimenez Lowrie Conforto and Humphreys for Lindor. But the Mets don’t have money lol
SalaryCapMyth
Just like how they ripped off the Rangers with the Kluber trade? Seriously..the Indians just pulled off a terrible trade for them and you’re going to rip on the Padres?
Ejemp2006
The Indians have a secret recipe for developing pitching. Don’t expect them to look dumb on this one. Clase will be Andrew Miller 2.0. Expect the Indians to follow this up by signing Eric Thames for pennies on the dinger. The Twins arent set to run away with it. The ChiSox aren’t scary. The Indians can still take the Central with a bit more hitting.
AndyMeyer
I agree. The pitching is still deep enough
MrAngelFan
Kluber is intriguing. He may be garbage, but he may be pretty good. We will need to see how in pitches in 2020. We know that Cleveland got garbage, basically nothing.. Good trade for the Rangers. They didn’t give up anything and received a 2 time Cy Young winner, though the loss of velocity and last year’s performance are cause for concern. The Rangers transformed Lynn into a 7 plus WAR guy last year, so with the recent pitching pickups they appear to be trying to create another Lynn.
thetruth 2
Clase will be better than Kluber next year.
Geno55
You and me both know this is a bad trade for the Indians
k51
I hate they traded Clase. He can bring some heat.
Ejemp2006
Um, Delino is a barely a MLB CF, but at least he is consistently barely a MLB CF. And even JBJ level CFers cost an arm and a leg because MLB wide there aren’t many even decent ones around. Plus we should have faith in the Indians by now to get the most out of guys. Expect the Rangers and the Indians look back on this with smiles.
Nook
The reliever the Indians got certainly isn’t garbage. He throws a 101 mph cut fastball and is a ground ball pitcher.
The Rangers are gambling that Kluber can get back to what he was, and have an option year to boot. However there are serious concerns he is done as an elite pitcher.
Bledcam
For Tribe fans sake, I can only hope that the money Cleveland is saving without Kluber will allow them to secure Lindor a new contract.
As a Ranger fan, I think it speaks well of JD that he turned a former Rule V draft pick and a backup catcher trade piece into Kluber. He gets a lot of grief, some deservingly, but this was great work on his part.
With that said, Texas needs to pile on now. Sign Castellanos and workout a trade for Bryant. Arenado would be incredible but there’s no way we can afford him.
Michael Chaney
As an Indians fan, this unfortunately won’t have any impact on re-signing Lindor. It’s tough having to admit it, but he’s gone within the next two years, either in a trade or by walking in free agency. I just can’t see them paying $30-35 million or more per year on anyone, even Lindor.
I think that Kluber was (relatively) expendable given their rotation depth, Kluber’s injury last year, and his salary. But I’m still a believer in him pitching well for a few more years, and I don’t think they got nearly enough back for him either.
I like Clase and I think he can be a really good reliever, but that’s also not a sure thing long-term. DeShields can run and defend well but he can’t hit at all, and that’s what they need the most. They already have a few other guys (Greg Allen and Bradley Zimmer) that fit the exact same profile, and at some point they’re gonna need someone who can actually hit.
Michael Chaney
Building off of that, I think the best hope is that the Indians reallocate the money Kluber would have earned toward other players. Puig shouldn’t cost more than $12-15 million a year if I had to guess, and he’s not a superstar anymore but he’s a solid player and their outfield situation isn’t too inspiring.
Alternatively, they could spread that money around with a few smaller free agents like Cesar Hernandez and bringing back Tyler Clippard.
Vandals Took The Handles
@ Michael Chaney
You claim to be learning baseball administration. You should be able to read what the Indians are doing…..
1. The Indians saved about $15m after the salaries they took on. They’ll need some money in reserve to add at the trading deadline. Easy to add a rental to plug a hole at 40% of his seasons salary. They’ve been doing that for years now.
2. The Bullpen.
Closer Brad Hand cost them badly last year, blowing games from mid-August until the last few weeks of the season when the Indians were out of it..….due in large part to his performance. Along with the Astros and Rays, the Indians are the best in MLB at developing pitchers. They cleared out some roster spots dumping Nick Goody and others. Now they go to work developing James Karinchak and Emmanuel Clase – young, strong arms that can bolster the back of the bullpen this year, and readying for Hand’s departure after the season, if not sooner. Maybe they don’t hit on all, but that’s what it takes to build a superior bullpen.
3. If DeShields can hit half decently he can platoon in CF, freeing Oscar Mercado to move to a corner spot – he simply is not good enough to play CF at this point of his career. Take the pressure off Mercado defensively, let him concentrate on hitting. And Tito will use DeShilds speed at clutch times in games. Additionally, Reyes cannot continue being a full-time DH. He either learns to play 1B, or needs help from the CF if he plays some RF.
4. The Indians Rebuild-On-The-Fly is about complete. They continue to get younger. With Allen and Moss they have 7 young starters going into ST, and now 2 100-mph pitchers going into the bullpen……which doesn’t count the pitchers in the high minors. Young, controllable pitchers are gold in today’s market – if they need it, the Indians can easily get a position player in trade for an arm.
5. The shortage of CF’s in MLB is almost as bad as the shortage in Catchers. The Indians can spin Allen or Zimmer during the season. Even if they can’t hit, playing CF defense is needed by numerous teams.
–
Extremely impressive FO and entire Baseball Ops Dept. One of the best – if not THE best – in MLB.
sufferforsnakes
I don’t know if you paid attention last season, but every time Mercado was moved to a corner, his defense and hitting faltered. Then, when Francona wised up and moved him back to CF and left him there, his bat came alive again while his defense improved dramatically. He became an excellent defensive centerfielder, as well as one of their best offensive weapons, solidifying the #2 hole.
iml12
Sorry but unless the Indians are absolutely sold kluber is not bouncing back they got railed. A platoon outfielder and a hard throwing relief prospect, yea
Michael Chaney
@Vandals that’s insanely condescending. Just because I’m a college student, it doesn’t mean I have to think one specific way. I’m not a moron, I just don’t like the move. That’s it.
I see the logic in saving some money, but as of right now this team isn’t good enough to seriously contend. Having a little extra to spend on in-season additions is fine, but they’re still about $30-35 million under last year’s payroll when the front office claims they have no mandate to cut any payroll. They also have a glaring weakness at second, and could use a little more depth in the outfield. It’s not too difficult to do the math there. Even if they spend all the money they would have owed to Kluber, they’d still have roughly $15 million to spend on additions during the year, which is more than enough given the moves they’ve made in the past (Jay Bruce, etc).
Hand is overworked, and having a few arms like Karinchak and Clase (to say nothing of some of the other arms they have) to shoulder the load helps. But as intriguing as some of these options are, they’re still unproven. Your argument that taking chances on bullpen guys to build a bullpen even concedes that they might not even hit on Clase, which is tough to admit considering you just made him the centerpiece of the trade.
You had me when you said “if DeShields can hit half decently” because he’s had many chances to prove that he can be a decent hitter, and he just isn’t. He’s a good defender and he’ll steal bases (plus he hits lefties kinda well), so it’s likely that he’ll be part of a platoon with Greg Allen (who has reverse platoon splits), or he’ll be a 5th outfielder since Luplow also hits lefties well and could also be a platoon partner for Greg Allen. I agree that using his speed will help late in games, but he’s not a good everyday player and never will be. DeShields and Zimmer can both run and defend (Allen can too), but even though I’m all about finding value in cheaper ways, at some point they’re gonna need to hit. Just being a good baserunner and defender doesn’t do much to give you job security, and you can ask Billy Hamilton, Keon Broxton, or a bunch of other guys. If the Indians want to trade Zimmer, they won’t get much back at this point.
I also don’t get the obsession with making Franmil a right fielder because I don’t have the confidence in him learning to play an effective right field; so what if he’s too young to be a full-time DH? There’s no sense in trying to force a square peg into a round hole, and he needs to just focus on hitting. Having speed in center to help him out will be nice, but hiding him in an outfield corner isn’t the best use for him. First base is temporarily blocked until Santana is gone, and even then it’s likely that they’ll give Jake Bauers another chance there or else they’ll try to give Bobby Bradley another opportunity.
The Indians’ young rotation depth is exactly why I considered Kluber to be relatively expendable; in addition to Allen and Moss, you also left out McKenzie (if he can stay healthy), and I’ve been trying for a while to tell people that Eli Morgan will be a solid pitcher too even though he doesn’t get any prospect love.
As an Indians fan, I’m fully aware of how talented their front office is. They probably ARE the best group of execs in the league, and I don’t need you to tell me that. I don’t think they’re dumb and I don’t think I’m dumb, but that doesn’t mean I have to love every move they make. This is just a move I’m just not a fan of. It’s pretty much that simple.
JohhnyBets67
Vandals whatever the hell you want to rationalize as being the truth is simply just your opinion. No matter how many paragraphs you write. Michael is free to have his own.
Indians fans can question the move. They got a young reliever with a 100 mph heater and a scrub CF. Not everything the Indians does is pure genius. I realize that is your opinion but other people have their own.
Rett Davis
Very good analysis young man. Clase has a chance to be the leagues shutdown closer. DeShields is what he is. If you’re a playoff team then you’d beg for him roster expansion and playoffs.
Rangers got a possible ace but more likely a 2-3 starter when his 17MM per is chump change with the new park. I think Demarcus Evans is the reason Texas let him go. Clase’s break on pitches (opposite of normal) have made a lot of guys look silly.
I hope clase and Delino do well, and we meet in the ALCS
Geno55
Go ahead pat yourself in the back believing Cleveland made a good trade they got nothing in return for a Cy Young winner think about it delino DeShields An a minor leaguer LOL
PiratesFan1981
DeShields is very similar to Billy Hamilton with the lack of hitting abilities. Both seem to be a defensive replacement in later innings.
jorge78
Hamilton is a MUCH worse hitter…..
RoyalsFanAmongWolves
yes he is….his defense is good, so as a late innings replacement he’s fine as long as he’s limited to no more than one at bat….but if he does get on base, he CAN score from 2nd on a sac fly (he did that with the royals)
Daniel Youngblood
DeShields is a much better hitter than Hamilton. His career OBP is almost 30 points higher than Hamilton’s and his OPS is 45 points higher.
Neither will blow you away with the bat, but DeShields’ offense is passable for a player with his speed. Hamilton is an absolute liability offensively.
Rett Davis
DeShields can make contact very well. His speed heightens nerves of infielders cause they gotta transfer and throw a dart. He’s a weird weapon.
I’m a Ranger fan and wish him the best
Bledcam
I just hate it for Indians fans. Cleveland is a great sports city. Indians fans deserve a guy like Lindor. Losing him solely because the owners are being cheap is just sad.
themaven
A great sports city?
Indians won 93 games last year and attendance went down 10%
The year before they won 91 games and attendance dropped 6%
Seems to me there are cheap people in Cleveland but it’s not the owner.
Vandals Took The Handles
Cut it out with the “owner is cheap” crap……
The Indians don’t take in a fraction of the TV money large market and many of the mid-market teams do. They can’t afford to keep their stars once those players can hit free agency, any more then the Pirates, Royals, Rays, Orioles (just look how the bad contract given to Chris Davis has totally paralyzed that organization for 3 years, and is still messing them up), Mariners, A’s, Marlins….and now the Rockies are shopping Nolan Arenado because after one year they realize they can’t pay the contract they gave him (the irony is that teams have to let their high-priced quality guys go, because the high-priced long-term contracts they gave out are unmovable…as we see with the Padres this year as well).
The disparity in TV contracts in MLB has made a farce of equality. But even now that’s changing. The Yankees had to bring in lower priced players for years to get to a point where they could give Cole a record contract – and they’re suing Ellsbury for some of his outstanding contract monies. The Nationals just had to let (arguably) the MVP of their first championship team go because they couldn’t afford to pay him and others (a year after they let Harper go). The Angles have been held down for years because of multiple bad long-term contracts, and they’re in a large market. The Red Sox had to hire one of the guys that ran the Rays because even they can’t afford their reckless spending any longer.
Worse yet, the people on here crying that a player should be a free agent after 4 years instead of 6 will completely destroy more then half the teams in MLB. The Indians have had Lindor for 4 years, they have 2 more remaining. The media cries to trade him stated the day after the season ended. Imagine if he – or any other star player – comes up on a small or mid-market team. For most players it takes a year to a year-and-a-half to totally adjust to playing at the ML level. So now at the end of year two there will be cries to trade the guy while the team can still get something for him. And MLB would expect fans in those cities to continue supporting the sport?
What a mess.
Vandals Took The Handles
@ themaven
Now the fans are “cheap”?
LOL
Indians fans pulled off that team because they can’t keep their better players. We see it happen in Tampa, Seattle, and other cities I’ve noted in a post above.
Who wants to support a team when they know that if a player gets too good, he’ll leave? Do you really think a team in Oakland or Pittsburgh can pay a star player what teams in New York, Chicago, Boston, LA, or SF can? Seriously? I just noted the difference between SF and Oakland. I worked there for a bit. While they’re both in the Bay Area, the discrepancy in the gross revenue that the Giants and A’s take in is outrageous. And it’s not because the owners spend – it’s been that way since the A’s moved into the Bay Area. The A’s can’t possibly get a TV contract like that of the Giants. Even when the A’s had one of the great teams of all time in the early 70’s, a so-so Giant team got more paying customers, more viewership, and more revenue.
MLB, the agents, and players union have lost sight of who pays for all of this. MLB is becoming like the NBA – alienating the fans in 75-80% of their markets because those teams have no chance at all to win championships, while the stars leave to go play with their friends for the large market teams.
thetruth 2
Lol they can’t afford him and he doesn’t want to be there.
Geno55
Cleveland Indians didn’t get much in return looks like good risk and reward for the Rangers
Geno55
Who knows what Kluber has Left in the tank but the Indians sure didn’t get much in retire for them one relief prospect not a top 10 Prospect DeShields As Cleveland was asking the angels for two top 10 prospects
Joban
We appreciate the sentiment, but at this point in time there’s virtually no scenario where Lindor re-signs with the Tribe. Not unless MLB up and decides to implement a salary cap out of the blue. And while that would be fantastic IMO, the reality of it happening anytime soon is a pipe dream. Cleveland’s FO is full of incredible minds tasked with working miracles given very limited resources, however, not even a miracle would be enough to retain a player of Lindor’s caliber at a time when blue chip all-stars are getting contracts worth more than x times the Tribe’s entire payroll. Yes, they certainly could pay Lindor what he’s worth and everyone will be happy campers, but that’s not going to happen unless ownership undergoes a radical shift in ideology and how they choose to spend.
angelsfan4life
The Indians wanted two of the Angels top ten prospects, then settle for a guy who can’t hit outside of Texas and a reliever? What a joke.
braves25
Exactly! It makes zero sense
CubsFan73
Shed Salary- Kluber on downside of career and as article said maybe they were high of P Prospect from Texas.
Smart move by Indians
andremets
Kluber was so cheap, I actually would have considered the Mets giving up 3 top 10 prospects for him and then dealing Syndergaard
TheTrotsky
Yeah I was wondering if it was just me but I had thought they could have got a better package from just about any other team.
beyou02215
True. I don’t get it. I am a Padres fan so I can only hope the ask was similar.
sufferforsnakes
Maybe that reliever is viewed as the future closer, and maybe a deal is working involving Brad Hand?
Big Hurt
You are hoping and praying there a bit my friend. Have you heard any Brad Hand trade rumors??? I haven’t. And no one (other than Cleveland) sees Clase as a closer, yet. He has incredible stuff, but so do a whole bunch of relievers these days.
Dennid
No other team sees him as a closer. So you are aware of what other teams think? Shut up please.
Netflix&RichHill
Dude, don’t tell people to shut up for an opinion that is beyond reasonable and totally right. No team in baseball would put Clase in the closer role right now. His control has not been there and handing him the closer role would escalate his cost in arbitration years rapidly. 100% no one sees him as a closer in 2020. Not even the orioles, marlins, or tigers.
are6
They don’t have a 101 mph cutter though. Lol. He is for sure a closer, straight gasoline. The websites say he throws some 91 mph slider.. but I’m telling you I don’t think that kid throws anything under 95-96. His fastball was running like 101,102, 103 this year. Before they called him up went and saw him in Frisco throwing 101 in AA. Closer was the role he was filling for the Rangers and he closed in the minors.
are6
He does not have any major command issues. If anything he’s just young and the few times he wasn’t hitting his spots he got tagged and at that speed it’s going out of the park. He just readjusted and got through it. Very calm presence on the mound, got called up and stepped in when Leclerc was off the rails and kept blowing saves left and right this last season and got moved to the bullpen. He’s the real deal, dude.
sufferforsnakes
Rumors are worthless. That’s been proven over and over again.
I’m making an unscientific deduction based on nothing.
Big Hurt
I get what you are saying, and like I said, he has incredible stuff. Having said that, he gave up 34 hits in 37 innings in AA last year and has barely struck out 1 batter per inning in his career, when everyone strikes out >1/inn, especially throwing >100. The year before Hader came up he struck out 161 in 126. Chapman 125 in 95. Kimbrel struck out 103 in 60 with 30 hits. He could be a bit later developing, but Clase doesn’t seem to miss as many bats as you’d think for a guy who throws 103 occasionally… or 101 cutter like you said. He could develop, but he just can’t be the closer Cleveland thinks now gives them the leverage to trade Brad Hand.with. If so – it’s a huge risk.
Daniel Youngblood
Clase’s a stud. Hits triple digits on the radar gun and throws strikes.
Cleveland fans will enjoy watching him.
iml12
The way they have been holding on to kluber the last year or so I was expecting a monster haul. I was wrong
jorge78
He can’t hit inside Texas either…..
skip tracey
lol winning comment so far. imo
sufferforsnakes
Wanted 2 Angels prospects according to whom? That’s right, some reporters looking for clicks.
Nobody really knows what goes on behind the scenes except the front offices.
Vizionaire
fake indians should rebuild!
braves25
This was an absolute steal by the Rangers!
DVail1979
Does the addition of Clase lead to a Brad Hand deal?
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Does Brad Hand make more than the league minimum? If so, then yes, Dolan will dump him.
TheMick7
If they dump him, please to the Yankees! He’sa great fit for them as a mid-reliever, set up man, or even closer to keep the innings on his arm down a bit since he was used so much over the past couple seasons. What do you think they would let him go for?
ScottCFA
How about a poll?!?
cdav45
I don’t get this at all. Deshields is terrible and even if Clase is a good get, that isn’t nearly enough for Kluber. WTF is going on here?
mlb fan
it is quite suprising, I would have thought that Kluber would bring back more too…….Delino Deshields is just a AAAA player and the reliever involved, Clase, had what, 24 innings pitched last year?….Of course, they do clear 17 million in salary and transfer the risk that Kluber never regains his form, to the Texas Rangers, so there is that too….Still a bit surprising.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
The return even going into last offseason was going to be disappointing for Indians fans. The view of him still being an Ace differed from other clubs. And yes he was a late bloomer, but the innings, workhorse innings, and late Octs started to take a toll. The ask was obviously outrageous to begin with, until they realized nobody was going to give up significant value, because at this point he’s a 18M rental with question marks. They sold a year to late. The weird part of this trade is if Kluber bounces back to 2-3 status it could look terrible for the Indians. But the Indians have a SP machine rolling, so the money saved probably fits them addressing 2B and OFs are cheap. It’s the churn and burn game.
El Duderino
Agreed that the ask was likely far too high last year, but definitely disagree in the giving up because he has a replacement in the wings.
No good club ever sells extremely short of expectations simply because they have someone to take their spot and they don’t regret it.
To me, this stinks all over of the Ken Giles trade the Phillies did in terms of value of a young and exciting reliever.
Typically, I don’t feel the Indians lose too many trades the same way Cashman doesn’t with the Yankees. I’m having a hunch the Tribe must see something to think Kluber is done.
Phiilies2020
I know it’s only 18mil in savings for one season but maybe the Inidans will feel a little more inclined to extend Lindor now that they saved a few bucks. The popular opinion among analysts is that they should trade Lindor this off-season. But much in the same way I feel about the RedSox, with Betts, they might as well keep him (if not extend him) and try to fulfill a WS championship during this two year window. It’s not like they’re far off, they have a great team.
mlb fan
The Indians saving 17 million on Kluber will make ZERO DIFFERENCE on Frankie Lindor, who will probably sign with agent Scott Boras and expect a 200+ MILLION, Anthony Rendon type of contract…..
cwsOverhaul
Lindor will want to top Machado and Harper. Can’t fault that. He is better.
bestno5
It’s too bad they didn’t trade the Dolan Ownership group for this return. Might have turned a loss into a big victory for the Tribe.
Jeff 1Bworthy
In 2016 Indians traded their top prospect+ for 2.5 yrs of Andrew Miller.
2018 Indians traded their top prospect for 3.5 yrs of Brad Hand
2020 Indians salary dump their former ace(w/ injury+decline risk) for 6 yrs of a prospect with upside of elite reliever??
Not my preference to build a team…I rather try to find ways to have improve the bats/SP so the bullpen can a bigger lead and less innings to cover.
MrStealYoBase
Cleveland has no problems turning nobodies into high quality starting pitchers (Bieber, Civale, etc.). It is a bit weird, however, that they can’t seem to do the same thing with relievers and have resorted to these types of trades. Especially since their lineup has been so thin outside of Lindor, JRam, and Santana.
mathblaster
To be fair basically all those pieces in the Miller and Hand trades have busted…I guess Frazier and Mejia still have a shot at being good but they’re still big disappointments
Padres458
How the hell is Mejia a dissapointment?
sufferforsnakes
Has he been as valuable as Hand since the trade?
charles stevens
I’d like to personally welcome Chris Antonetti to the Texas Rangers staff after he gets fired in the coming months.
Joban
Right, he’d be welcomed by Texas and 28 other clubs. To pull off the moves Antonetti and the FO have with such limited resources is incredible.
trog
I suspect the Rangers will engage the Brewers on Lorenzo Cain, or may elect to add Billy Hamilton as a 4th outfielder/late defensive sub/an insurance policy if Santana can’t handle CF every day..
Bledcam
Hamilton wouldn’t make much sense for us, I don’t think. Delino was a guy on thin ice for a while and Hamilton is basically the same kind of player.
trog
Hamilton is basically DeShields v2, except faster and elite defensively. He would be had for cheap too.
MrAngelFan
@Trog Unfortunately for these two, the old adage holds true. You cant steal first base.
kripes-brewers
I could see that too, but Cain hitting ahead of Yelich and Hiura is really productive when everyone is healthy. Not sure Stearns would take that gamble right now. It’s fun watching Cain roam center.
SashaBanksFan
I was expecting the return to be much much better after hearing the Angels were out because everyone knows they need to upgrade. Once I saw what Cleveland vs. what they asked of the Angels and presumably other teams. Was Cleveland gift wrapping a Christmas present to Texas or did they feel bad for them for missing out on Rendon?
SashaBanksFan
*what Cleveland received
Geno55
I agree merry Christmas Texas rangers
believeland
I don’t mind this trade at all. There was no way that Kluber was going to go into next year as an Indian. Ether they’d decline his option or they’d trade him. This way, we at least have someone who should make a great 26th man (speed and good OF defense, something we’re sorely missing), and a potentially really good reliever.
The Indians almost never lose a trade. Even when they’ve been made fun of and ridiculed, that front office is great at getting their guy and getting maximum value for the amount ownership lets them spend (that’s a whole different story). If they think his arm is that good, that we just got our set up get to help Witgren and Hand on the backend, then this was a great trade.
At the very least: we cleared 14 million from payroll and have two more lottery tickets
Ashleyr
What fans don’t understand is it takes two teams to create a trade. The Indians asked the Angels for Marsh and another prospect. LA said NO, so they lost Kluber. Prospects may blossom or they could fail and become no names in time. The angels screamed they want pitching, but when a former Cy winner was offered to them, to improve their roster in 2020, they balked at the idea and refused to give up what it would take. Cleveland then listened to other offers and finding one they like, they traded Kluber to Texas. It is good to say other teams could have beat the offer, but when they had the opportunity to beat it, they refused to give up the players, so that is now on them and who knows what the future holds. Kluber could be a shell of his former self, Nothing is guaranteed in baseball – EVER!
braves25
@Ashleyr
Ok well why wouldn’t the Indians ask for a package from the Angels slightly better then one they got from Texas? Instead of one that is 100 times better?
Angels were asked for their #2 prospect plus another top 10. But he was traded for a 4th outfielder (at best) and a relief pitcher. I’m sure the Angels would have given a little more then that for Kluber.
Whifff
Yes it takes two. So wait and let it play out. Why did they have to jump at this on 12/15?
Teator
Exactly. If this was about getting max return, they would have let it play out. Instead they decided they were more concerned with dumping the salary than maximizing the return. There is no other way to spin this.
Geno55
I bet the angels were going to
include Brandon Marsh in the trade and a lower minor-league players
paindonthurt
This trade is insane. I fully understand Cleveland trading him, but for this return?
andremets
Like whose idea was it to include Deshilelds in the package?
paindonthurt
Right. Cleveland: “we must have Deshields in this deal.” We need a 4th OF’r who can’t hit.
MrAngelFan
DeShields is most likely is a drug mule used to transport drugs from Texas to Ohio via this trade.. That is the only way his involvement makes sense.
Randia
the key to this deal is that after the cheating Astros get their punishment, the rangers will have the best starting Squad in the AL West, Theres not much left for the Angels to improve their mediocre Staff, Oakland is good, The Angels are all hit no pitch and Seattle is rebuilding
the Rangers see an opening and they are going for it.
the key is what players get suspended in Houston and how it puts a deserved monkey wrench into their season. its only right after what theyve done.
MWeller77
The Astros’ ability to contend in 2020 will not be affected at all by MLB sanctions, unless those sanctions are unprecedented. I don’t see any evidence that unprecedented sanctions are on their way. It’s highly unlikely that any players will be suspended, and even if Hinch gets suspended and/or the Astros lose draft picks, they’re still the favorites in 2020.
I have no love for the Astros and their toxic, dishonest organizational culture, but I don’t see MLB coming through with a meaningful response
IronBallsMcGinty
Maybe but I certainly doubt that they’ll lead mlb in team batting average and fewest strikeouts again now that they don’t have their digital outfield assistant.
Strike Four
Jordan Lyles and Kyle Gibson are not better than anyone on Oakland’s rotation.
The A’s are 20 wins a better team than the Rangers in 2020. Rangers have a TERRIBLE starting lineup. Front to back the A’s are a FAR superior team to Texas, who has no chance to finish higher than 3rd place in the AL West. A’s are almost the team to beat in the AL, period. In one year this will be clear.
iml12
The As rotation isn’t that good and Lyle and Gibson are 4/5. Rangers get a bat and gallo back they are in the hunt
thetruth 2
Lol. Oakland has a rotation full of question marks, a thin bullpen and a lineup that hangs on Olson, Chapman and Laureano with a potentially done Davis and a soon departing Semien.
JamesDaltOn
The AL West will at least be a bit more fun to follow with Texas and Anaheim making moves. My favorite AL West team is Oakland because they find a way to “make it happen”, like Tampa Bay. Otherwise, the AL West is incredibly boring.
Bledcam
Ranger fan here. I’ve honesty always had a soft spot for Oakland too. They’ve fielded some exciting scrappy teams for a long time now. It’s kind of hard to dislike them.
trog
Frankie Francisco would disagree. 🙂
californiaangels
says the east coast guy..
OCTraveler
Lindor to the Dodgers for Muncy, Baez and one of the young catchers (Smith or Ruiz).
Dodgers infield Turner – Lux – Lindor – Seager
thetruth 2
Indians laugh then ask about the real offer.
Just_a_thought
Then, right after their deep belly laugh, the Indians counter with Baez and Pederson for Lindor… take it or leave it
Teator
Kluber was going to go, but this return is insane. It’s like the Tribe front office did this to spite the Angels. “Oh! You won’t give us top prospects?? We’ll show you. We’re going to give him to your division rival for nothing!”
Rangers29
Hehehehehe… I like being a rangers fan.
Ok for real now, the rangers are now done with the rotation.
Their bullpen may need one more piece since clase is gone now, maybe a romo.
Then the offense, go get Chirinos, Castellanos, and I am against trading for a big name 3b like Arenado or Bryant, so i’d go after Kyle Seager… or if the price is right Miguel Andujar.
I like the rotation, and maybe if we get a few bats, then we are 2nd in the division to the Astros, and we are the 2nd WC. The fight for the WC will be Texas, Oakland, White Sox, Rays, and Red sox, Out of that group, the best pitching staffs are the Rays and the Rangers. If The rangers can get some offensive pieces, then we have a serious chance.
sufferforsnakes
I know y’all love to here my opinions, so here goes. 🙂
1) The Tribe dealt from a position of strength/depth. Too many starters. Problem solved.
2) They needed bullpen help, considering they let some go. They got it, and possibly a future closer.
3) They needed OF depth, someone who can actually play defense. They got it. Does anyone really want to see Franmil Reyes playing RF?
4) They cut payroll, freeing up money for more improvements. I have to believe another trade is in the works.
5) They released of Freeman. They still have a need to fill, but now have the flexibility/funds to find themselves a new second baseman.
Let’s not kid ourselves, this is how Cleveland operates. But it’s also a proven system that has kept them competitive for several years now.
Tomorrow is a new day.
dkcsmc1991
As hard as that is to accept, I agree 100%
macstruts
They also had a player that was coveted and didn’t get a lot for him. Deshields is worthless, So they got an RP that they are high on.
We’ll they better have great great scouting, because if Kluber is worth his salary, no BP guy on the planet is worth 18 million a year.
sufferforsnakes
Maybe he really wasn’t as coveted as you think?
Teator
The next trade will be Hand going somewhere to dump more salary before this trade deadline. Then Santana, Carrasco, and finally Lindor as the rebuild begins.
paindonthurt
Coveted as; this is the guy we have to get. Probably not! But, with so many pitching starved teams that want to compete I just can’t see this kind of return. The Indians must love the kid out of the bullpen. I don’t know anything about him. I do know Deshields is a guy with not a lot of value. He does not even use his one asset (speed) that well. He does fit as a sometimes defensive replacement
sufferforsnakes
Him and Mercado will be their best defensive outfielders, only difference being Mercado can actually hit.
The Tribe has done well in the past in identifying pitchers they desire. I’m gonna trust them on this one. They wanted this kid, and it sounds as if they’ve had an eye on him for awhile.
I know of one time in the past when this same thing occurred. It involved a pitcher named…..Corey Kluber.
paindonthurt
Position of strength should not mean diminished return. I get what you are saying. All depends on this bullpen kid and how he pans out. It is difficult to project what you get with Kluber going forward.
dixoncayne
Too many starters? Never
steelerbravenation
Who does the Rangers have that would interest the Braves for Ender ???
sufferforsnakes
Access to Whataburger?
CJ81
i can’t believe that was the final price for 2 years of Kluber. indians must think he wont go back to himself prior to 2019. I would have loved for cardinals to offer somethink like tyler oneil and a minor league pitcher. they could easily have topped that offer.
skip tracey
Wow. Is this trade, the kid brother of the Shelby Miller deal? Half brother maybe? One-sided deal it seems right now, but does Corey get his stuff back or does Delino turn up his bat? Prospect? And the money saved. Still a bit one-sided I think.
canadianyankee
Sounds like Cashman should give Cleveland a call and dangle former tribe prospect Frazier, Happ and Garcia for Lindor…yes I realize it’s not a realistic trade but heck if Kluber went for a bag of bp balls and a stick of chaw it can’t hurt to offer it?
sufferforsnakes
Take the time to watch video of this young pitcher. Dang, kid brings the heat, and that cutter is brutal and blazing fast.
The Tribe’s pen had the slowest fastball rate in baseball, averaging around 90mph. Now, with this kid and Karinchak, they have 2 fireballers at the back end of their bullpen.
This is exactly the type of player Cleveland’s FO looks for in trades — young, affordable, and controllable. Plus, with the new (dumb) rules for relief pitchers, he’s solid, with his splits against each side being practically the same.
Geno55
It’s a waste of time Cleveland didn’t get nothing in returnMinor leaguer an a bench player
thetruth 2
He’s a good reliever not a minor leaguer.
BuckarooBanzai
What in the Wild Wide World of Sports is going on here?
When did MLB toggle “Trade Override”?
Was I sleepin’?
lol
its_happening
Velocity wasn’t a concern to Keith Law in his days with the Blue Jays when they were acquiring players who couldn’t break or barely broke 90. The list is long.
MrAngelFan
@WereAllJustGuestsHere You do not need to throw over 90 mph to be effective. In 2012, Jered Weaver’s fastball topped out at 88mph and he was a 20 game winner. Once he hit the age of 32 though, he topped out at 84mph and he was getting lit up left and right. It was amazing to see what a difference 4 mph made.
skullbreathe
Feels like a salary dump by the Indians because the prospect return from the Rangers was pitiful…
FattKemp
DeShields is garbage and Clase is a wild card. Kluber hasn’t been healthy in a year, good in 2 years, or throwing hard enough to inspire confidence in 3. Good on the Rangers maybe getting a #4 for cheap but I wouldn’t expect more..
Just_a_thought
Last year being injured aside, I’m sure Kluber’s top 3 CY finish in 2018 and his CY award in 2017 speak heavily against the remainder of your comment. I think advanced metrics support confidence much better than velocity.
angelsfan1522
Thank god the angels didn’t trade two of their top 10 prospects for a 2 years of a pitcher in decline
DakotaJoe
Why were the Indians asking for the Angel’s #2 prospect and yet settled on the Rangers’ #23? Seems like they really sold low.
Moneyballer
I think the Indians should use every dollar they saved and throw it Lindor’s way. He plays too valuable a position to just trade away. Plus he’s the heart and soul of that team! He’s a building block, not trade bait!
Indianfan
Everybody with half a brain knows why this trade was made by the Indians — dump salary. So did all the other 29 MLB teams. That’s why that got little or nothing for the two-time Cy Young winner. Lindor’s upcoming trade also will provide underwhelming results due to the same reason. Until the Dolans sell the team, Indians fans are going to have to put up with playing on an uneven playing field year after year. The three-time defending AL Central champs are now right in the middle of the division pack (sorry Detroit and Kansas City), with both Minnesota and Chicago working hard to improve their teams While the Indians keep their salary-cutting campaign going. Who’s next to go — Jose Ramirez?
WhereIs28
Its funny or sad for the indians how fast things change in mlb last year they turned down Andujar Frazier and Sheffield from the yankees and they took a 4th outfielder and a reliever prospect who’s not even considered among the rangers top 20 prospects. They overvalued him last year and basically gave him for a bag of balls.
bearsfan49055
I see the White Sox getting Dallas Keuchel & re signing Ivan Nova.
Big Hurt
Could be… I don’t know if Nova’s 2nd half success is repeatable, but if it is he will be a good stopgap, and I think Keuchel is almost a must sign.