Longtime Cardinals catcher Ted Simmons and MLB Players Association executive director Marvin Miller were elected to the Baseball Hall Of Fame, as announced tonight on MLB Network. Simmons and Miller were inducted via the “Modern Era” veterans committee, a 16-person panel focusing on people whose largest contributions to the sport fell between 1970 and 1987.
Each offseason, a different committee meets to examine a different era of baseball’s history and consider any important figures for enshrinement into Cooperstown, including players who didn’t reach the 75% threshold on the writers’ ballots. This year’s panel consisted of, as always, a mixture of former players, executives, owners, journalists, and historians — Sandy Alderson, George Brett, Rod Carew, Bill Center, Dave Dombrowski, Dennis Eckersley, David Glass, Steve Hirdt, Walt Jocketty, Doug Melvin, Eddie Murray, Jack O’Connell, Tracy Ringolsby, Terry Ryan, Ozzie Smith, and Robin Yount.
Twelve of 16 votes were required for induction, and each Modern Era committee member could vote for a maximum of four candidates. Simmons (13 votes) led the field while Miller hit the 12-vote minimum on the dot. For Simmons, today’s news represents some relief after his near-miss during the last Modern Era ballot in 2017. Simmons fell only a single vote short of the twelve required for entry into Cooperstown (Miller was also on that 2017 ballot, receiving seven votes).
Of the other eight players on this year’s ballot, Dwight Evans (eight votes), Dave Parker (seven votes), Steve Garvey (six votes), and Lou Whitaker (six votes) all made particularly strong showings, while Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Thurman Munson, and Dale Murphy each received three or fewer votes. These eight players will again be eligible for consideration during the next Modern Era vote in December 2022.
Simmons lasted just one year on the writers’ ballot, and was removed after failing to achieve the minimum five percent of the vote. It was surprising both then and now that Simmons’ career didn’t make much of an impact on the writers, given that he has long been regarded as one of the best-hitting catchers in the history of the sport. Simmons hit .285/.348/.437 with 248 homers over 21 seasons and 9685 plate appearances from 1968-1988, and he ranks second all-time among all catchers in hits (2472), doubles (483), and RBI (1389). Over Simmons’ 13 seasons with the Cardinals, five seasons with the Brewers, and three seasons with the Braves, he accumulated eight All-Star appearances.
If Simmons was perhaps overdue after his close call in the 2017 vote, Miller’s induction corrects one of the more glaring omissions from the Hall Of Fame. While some of the owners and executives who populated various veterans committees over the years weren’t fans of how Miller built and strengthened the MLBPA, there is little doubt that Miller is one of the most influential figures in baseball history.
Serving as the MLBPA’s executive director from 1966-1982, Miller’s tenure saw nothing less than a complete reinvention of the relationship between players and ownership. The very first Collective Bargaining Agreement between the league and the MLBPA was struck, and the old reserve clause (most famously challenged by Curt Flood) eventually fell by the wayside, paving the way for modern free agency and the current arbitration system. Player salaries and pensions saw immense growth as the union grew in strength, as Miller brought modern labor practices to a business whose employees previously had little in the way of an organized front to challenge management.
Miller and Simmons will be officially inducted into the Hall Of Fame on July 26, along with any players voted in when the Baseball Writers’ Association Of America reveals its ballot on January 21.
STLCards33
Ted Simmons is beyond deserving.
iang2424
I was like Simmons really? Then I saw the stats and was like oh how the heck did he only get 3% as a catcher 25 years ago? A catcher putting together those numbers is definitely worthy. Lou and Murphy should get their days too but we’ll have to see if they ever will.
dimitrios in la
A very interesting discussion could emerge from this. Eight-time All-Star, highly regarded but unexceptional offensively actually, no? (Led the league in GIDP once, and IBB twice.) My initial take is he’s solid but not HOF. Would love to hear other takes though.
iamhector24
No one cares about GIDP.
dimitrios in la
I can see your understanding of irony is really well developed.
fox471 Dave
Oh God! What in holy hell is GIDP?
SocraticGadfly
Simba is right at my borderline for catcher.
That’s why Munson should already be in.
55, maybe 60 WAR, if not killed. Won an MVP.
dimitrios in la
Double plays grounded into.
deweybelongsinthehall
Ground into double plays. Simmons as a switch hitting catcher is clearly deserving but my argument is the system. The fact that Marvin Miller just gets in today is a bigger joke than Harold Baines getting the necessary votes last year. The man was the most influential person in the sport since Jackie Robinson. Why though does the panel vote on players, executives and others together? The 16 people voting could only vote for a maximum of four individuals.and a vote for Miller should not have been at the expense of a player. In my view, Evans (I admit I’m biased here but so we’re the White Sox three last year who should have recused themselves last year due to their connection to Baines), Munson and Whitaker (if Trammell is already in – they in large part solidified the other as a superstar middle infielder) should have been in with Simmons. Also Dale Murphy as a back to back MVP also should have received more consideration.
wordonthestreet
Pedro you have no class.
stratcrowder
That was a pretty offensive joke. You’re the effing moron.
dimitrios in la
Sad comment but just plain unnecessary.
Pedro4eva
It’s funny because it’s true
fox471 Dave
None, Pedro, you human clown shoe.
SimbaHOF2019
Thats a stretch to say Munson would accumulate that much War. When he died he was already 32 and declining. I liked him and perhaps he would have hung on long enough but its certainly not a given. Simmons had a higher OPS+ for his 20 year career!
Rashley
Ted Simmons is Number 10 all-time in WAR among catchers. He was a truly great player! He had the misfortune of playing on some very mediocre teams during his tenure in St. Louis – not exactly a media hotbed. For those of us who followed him and saw him play, it is astonishing that his election took this long.
stemog
He was really good. Switch-hitter, too, so he played all the time.
stubby66
Definitely a heck of a lot better then someone like Grandal who couldnt even carry his bags
Steven Juris
No.
deweybelongsinthehall
Another switch hitter who has gotten no love is Reggie Smith. The man came up a centerfielder, took abuse as a black man in Boston and had Dwight Evans type arm. With Simmons now in and Pete Rose not eligible, he’s the best switch hitter since the late 60s no longer on the ballot.
stratcrowder
Truth! Reggie was awesome
tycobb016
Reggie Smith was rookie in 1967 i think. Yaz had the greatest September ever that year. Smith was a stud.
tycobb016
I saw these guys play. Not once did I think any of them were HOF worthy. All Stars yes, HOF no. Don’t want to take it out on Simmons but come on. Lot of players getting in now who don’t deserve. Trammel Morris and I could name more but I don’t want to. Give me a break.
steelerbravenation
You must not of seen Mattingly in his prime because he was well on his way to being a HOF before he got hurt. So to say you seen everyone of them play but to have not seen him play and say he is going to the HOF then you seen him play at the bad point of his career.
Dave Parker too. He may not be a HOF but there were years when these guys sure looked like they were going.
tycobb016
Yes I saw Mattingly. I think a bad back did him in. I had him on my APBA and Strato-matic teams. He was 100% baseball and 0% bull****.Just my opinion that’s all.
stubby66
I’m sorry how you dont see Tommy John isnt in the HOF. Yes his numbers arent the best but close. Then you add on the procedure that he took a risk on having has had an impact on atleast of about 1000 players. That alone gets him in .
Arnold Ziffel
Miller forever screwed the small market teams from ever building and keeping a team together. He destroyed the game, but Yankees love him so he gets in.
tycobb016
How about Jim Kaat? Lots of guys on the second level. Tommy John was my favorite Sox pitcher back in the day. Sox acquired him because he had a good curveball and they thought they could work with him.
ohmy
Miller getting is a travesty. The writers, who are all pro-union, got him in. Tommy John, for his career AND the operation actually deserves it.
And yes, Miller did more damage than constructive.
JoeBrady
All Miller did was to get the players the money they deserve. And since MLB is bigger than ever, I’m not seeing any damage on their side either.
phenomenalajs
Problem is he thinks it has done more harm than good to the game. He was a very good reliever when the top closers were Rollie, Eck, Lee Smith, Dan Quisenberry, Bruce Sutter and Goose Gossage.
dimitrios in la
Tend to agree. That was my first take too. Feel similarly about Harold Baines.
User 4245925809
Disagree. I’d say with recent induction of borderline HOF players.. Harold Baines being one of the least worthy last year that Dwight Evans and Sweet Lou Whitaker belong. I could tell many stories of Sweet Lou, who was a local favorite in Lakeland when he played for the Lakeland Flying Tigers Detroit A ball team and remained a HUGE favorite each and every season he returned to this town for ST. he would stand near the dugout and sign autographs, have his picture taken it seemed for hours. Mostly just with nothing but a “Sweet Lou”. One of the kindest and friendliest players ever had the privilege to come across in my time following the game was Lou.
SocraticGadfly
I saw Mattingly. Even before he started having the back problems, he didn’t knock me out. I booed Cobra regularly, deliberately buying RF bleacher tickets when the Pirates visited old Busch. He, too, never “knocked me out.”
fox471 Dave
Morris very iffy. Trammell definitely HOF! Baines hall of good.
fox471 Dave
T. John and J. Katt should be in the HOF.
fox471 Dave
Kaat. Geez!
deweybelongsinthehall
What risk? Without the surgery, he was done. Dr, Frank Job should be in for his contribution to the sport. I love TJ who I viewed as a poor man’s Jim Kaat. Kitty has to go in first. As for Mattingly, he wasn’t on a championship winner like Puckett to get in based on his years playing. My vote for a Yankee goes to Munson whose career paralleled Puckett in length and accolades. No disrespect to Simmons who is deserving but give me one vote between the two and Munson gets it. Both were tough behind the plate but Munson’s overall defense was better and he was the Yankees’ most clutch hitter during their 76-78 run. Reggie had the marque name and one unreal night but game to game, I wasn’t going to let Munson beat me. My respect for him is basically due to how much I hated him as a Sox fan growing up.
deweybelongsinthehall
Miller destroyed the game? Didn’t the court have a say in free agency? Not being in a union, His can I blame him? If owners didn’t screw players years before, there likely wouldn’t have been a need for a Marvin Miller.
deweybelongsinthehall
Go back and look at the years Mattingly had. Unfortunately, his career wasn’t long enough before injuries ruined him. His glove was great too. Reminds me of Dustin Pedroia who likely would have earned enshrinement but now has no chance.
Orangejedi23
Maybe, just maybe, he helped the actual commodity (the players) earn their fair share.
hiflew
What are you talking about? The Yankees and Dodgers dominated the game for many years for Miller ever got involved. Just go look at baseball history. Put together a list of the 50 best players from 1900-1950. When did the Reds, Pirates, Browns, Phillies, or other teams have any of the best players from the first half of the 20th Century? Now how many of those players were Yankees?
Mendoza Line 215
Hiflew-Honus Wagner and Pie Traynor would like a word with you.
Sun Devil 17
Parker and Al Oliver belong in the hall
bcjd
The writers literally did NOT get him in. He was voted in by the modern era committee, not the BBWAA.
MLBTRS
So, if you think Trammel isn’t deserving, you must also believe it to be outrageous that Rizzutoi is in.
SimbaHOF2019
If Simmons played in NY he would have been first ballot! He was better than Munson. He was actually a very strong catcher who played 150 games in the gates of hell that was busch stadium. Regularly over 110 degrees on the field in the summer
JoeBrady
I was like Simmons really?
—————————–
LOL! I guess you don’t follow baseball:)
Just kidding. I had the same reaction last time when he got 11 votes. I was like ‘who?’. Then I did my research too. Good choice.
iang2424
Well considering I’m 23 I never got to see him play lol. He’s not someone that is talked about a lot. He may be more for the teams he’s played for and I’ve heard the name but never looked into him.
SocraticGadfly
Munson was better and should have been in long ago, but the NY media hated him, which is a fair part of the reason why the writers didn’t vote him in.
deweybelongsinthehall
Diana Munson has indicated they wanted to change the rules like they did for Puckett and allow votes the first year after he died, He probably would have gotten in on emotions but Diana felt Thurman would not have want3d the rules to be changed for him so she said no.
douglasb
Munson was better defensively but Ted Simmons was a little better offensively. Munson started to drop off his last year, and we never saw him have bad years like Simmons had once he got to around age 34-35.
Munson was and is borderline HOF. You can make a good case for him I think, but it’s no travesty that he’s not in. I think he’s behind Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker in the “overdue from the 70’s” category. But I respect Munson as a player greatly.
RoseBowlMtg
Here iis a comparison btwn Munson and Simmons during Munson’s life so those who think Simmons was worse or a compiler take a look
age, years, hits, 2b, 3B, HR, RBI, ave, TB’s:
TM 32, 11, 1558, 229, 32, 113, 701, .292, 2190
TS: 30, 11, 1700, 332, 36, 172, 926, .298, 2620
So in a must harder field to hit in Simba had 142 more hits, 103 more doubles, 4 more triples ,59 more dingers and 430 more TB’s
Let’s compare them age wise at 32
TM 1558, 229,32,, 113,701, 2190
TS 1927, 369, 39, 209, 1084, 3006
Thurman Munson had 3 good years then 74 ribbies was his 4th best while Simmons 71-80 did not have a rbi yr less than 74 while 6 years were 90+.. Thurman had a nice career but if you want to compare him to a compiler try Fisk.
todd76
What’s Dale Murphy have to do???
SocraticGadfly
Be a HOFer. He’s not. socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2019/12/no-really-dale…
deweybelongsinthehall
To bad he didn’t cone back last year on PEDs. Imagine great seasons from great players. Between the drugs and juiced ball, him and Evans would have reset their eligibility and get another shot with the writers.
HighHardOne
Ted was always deserving in my book.
Happy for him and Marvin and sad for Cobra and Murphy who I also think are deserving
CrikesAlready
I’d like to see an article of those who the opportunity is now closed for them into the HOF.
mlb.fanatic
Simmons deserves it
schellis 2
Simmons way more deserving than Harold baines was last year. Simmons shouldnt have had to wait for the vets committee
Rashley
Absolutely! Having Baines in has cheapened the Hall.
dimitrios in la
How so?
david klein
Good to see Miller get in and Simmonds too but Whitaker not being in is a disgrace
jneumann
Agree
fox471 Dave
Agree.
lokinyc
ted Simmons? are you kidding me? no Mattingly? no Tommy John?
Michael Chaney
This is a bad take
barkinghumans77
Simmons hit .301 for the 70’s, made 8 All Star games. Also a .367 OBP. He was a great offensive catcher. Easily top 10. His getting in has no bearing in the other players cases for the Hall. Whitaker should be in. I mostly believe Mattingly should also.
Strike Four
I think every player on the ballot EXCEPT Mattingly should go in. Mattingly has no rings and was only really an MVP one time. Rest of his career meh other than his MVP year.
steelerbravenation
He was only an mvp once but he put up dominating seasons. I don’t believe a Mattingly was a HOF just because of how the injured back costed him some productive years.
This is where watching the game as a game and not watching numbers comes into play. Because watching Mattingly play he was a HOF just wasn’t able to play long enough.
DarkSide830
horrible take. rings mean very little in the context of one player, unless that player was a postseason superstar, and being the best player in the AL or NL any number of years doesnt make or break one’s overall career production.
SaberSmuckers
What’s wrong with you? I can’t tell if you just have no life and enjoy trolling, or you legit do not understand anything about the game.
“Mattingly really was only an MVP one time”. Why do you need the word “really” there? It’s a fact, he was MVP one time. Personally I felt he deserved it over Clemens in ‘86, but he also won it over Brett in ‘85 so it evened out.
“Rest of his career is meh except for other than his MVP”. He won a batting title in ‘84. In ‘86 he should have won his second at .352 (Boggs sat out) when he led the league in hits with 238, scored 117 runs, OBP of .394, hitting 31 HR’s with 52 doubles. Mattingly was must see TV when he came to the plate. Do you not know how to look up stats?
I’ll never understand the “no rings” point. With that “logic”, Tony Gwynn, Ken Griffey Jr. and Ted Williams should not be in the HoF either – brilliant take.
MoRivera 1999
SaberSmuckers
Absolutely right. Again, Strike Four is blinded by his childish, reactionary Yankee-Hate and can’t see the forest OR the trees.
Dock_Elvis
Mattingly was dominant over 3 or 4 seasons in the mid 80s. If that’s the protocol for the Hall then a lot of players get in including Orel Hershiser.
iamhector24
Stop with the “no rings” bs. This isn’t the NBA. One player can not make that much of a difference. Mike Trout will be one of the five best players of all time and what kind of post season success does he have?
ohmy
If Trammell is in, than Whitaker deserves to be. However, I don’t believe Trammell SHOULD be in.
fox471 Dave
Yeah, he really should.
MLBTRS
You must not have heard of Alan Trammel until today.
SocraticGadfly
Munson should have gone in first. Better catcher. And I’m a lifetime Cards fan.
dimitrios in la
Mattingly may be the least deserving of anyone out there—and he was my favorite player of his era not named Eddie Murray.
deweybelongsinthehall
Should be called F-WAR because that’s what comes out of my mouth when the discussion starts. So many players I can come up with and the problem is a group of 16 is too small as it allows for biases to hijack the entire vote. Harold Baines election last year is a dis-service to those truly deserving. The all-stars amongst those enshrined such as a Ruth, Williams, Jackie Robinson, etc. who on this last list doesn’t compare favorably to Baines? I’d have put Reggie Smith in long before Baines and he wasn’t even in this group of ten.
diddlez
Yeah Ted Simmons, the second best catcher of the entire 70’s and into the 80’s after Johnny Bench. He had more WAR than Carlton Fisk from 1971 – 1983 and had only 5 fewer than Bench in that span.
tycobb016
Screw WAR. Eye test best way. WAR is made of estimate, infer [guess], adjust. WAR I think is the most unreliable way to judge Players. WAR is like every player ever faced the same exact pitches in the same exact dimensions in the exact same conditions. Except it never happened in real life.
Michael Chaney
You literally just described the entire point of WAR.
It’s pretty obvious that no player faced the exact same conditions over the course of their career. That’s why it’s meant to be an impartial way of comparing players.
SaberSmuckers
The “eye test” gave Gold Gloves to both Bernie Williams and Jeter. They were not great fielders.
tycobb016
WAR is make believe, pretend. I’m not knocking any individual who relies on it to come to a conclusion.
SocraticGadfly
Dewey Evans won, IIRC, one Gold Glove in a negative dWAR year, even. (I know he’s negative dWAR, on B-Ref, for his career.
SocraticGadfly
You’re make believe, pretend. It’s knuckleheadedness like this that leads me to still regret MLBTR taking away the thumbs down button.
tycobb016
Oh no, not the dreaded thumbs down button. I’d rather be a knucklehead than a baldheaded lunkhead. Instead of this let’s be friends. I’ll give you the last word on it if you want it.
dimitrios in la
And as someone who watched both carefully they were outstanding baseball players. Cal Ripken too. WAR is a nice addition to our discourse about who’s good/deserving and who’s not—but it’s also a crutch for this who know little about the game and who spend nearly no time intelligently watching said game. Dad but true.
WAR seems wise for front offices; not so much for laypeople.
dimitrios in la
*Sad
iamhector24
The eye test from ty cobb. You yell at anyone to get off your lawn lately?
tycobb016
lamhector24- Good night Mr. Crankypants. I gotta work tomorrow, how about you?
imgman09
Have a long career plays a part also,Simmons played 18 Years,saw all his Career,long overdue also Jeff Kent 17 Years changed the 2nd base position,Not a Good Fielder in ny but improved immensely in SF,Long overdue!
imgman09
…..Sorry 21 Seasons for Simmons
SocraticGadfly
How can you and so many people keep overlooking Munson when he was better than Simmons? Is it his playing career death? He would have played out to 55 WAR, maybe 60. I just don’t get people who should be baseball smart overlooking Munson.
MLBTRS
“If only”, “could have”, “might have” doesn’t get anyone an award.
SaberSmuckers
Mattingly hit 119 HR’s his first four full seasons, following that up with less than 100 his remaining eight. If he didn’t hurt his back he’d be first ballot.
The Mattingly of the 80’s was a Hall of Famer, but not when you combine with his 90’s stats.
He’s my favorite player of all-time, but he’s not a Hall of Famer.
I’m not upset TJ isn’t in the HoF, but I also wouldn’t be upset he was.
I’m surprised Ted Simmons was not in, he deserved to be in sooner.
douglasb
compare Don Mattingly and Cecil Cooper.
both really good players. neither is HOF worthy.
bluemarc
Garvey and Murphy deserve it too.
phenomenalajs
So does Keith Hernandez who wasn’t even on the list. If Harold Baines can get in, Mex belongs there too.
dimitrios in la
No Keith Hernandez does not belong in the Hall—nowhere near it.
rct
60 WAR, a pile of gold gloves (one of the best defensive 1B ever), an MVP, 128 OPS+, 1000+ walks, 1000+ RBI, 1100+ runs, .296/.384/.436/.821 career slash. Two-time WS champ and a major contributor on both teams. He’s a HoF in my book.
dimitrios in la
That is a very nice argument in favor of him. I appreciate the reply. More career walks than K’s too. As someone who watched him play regularly there was little—ever—about him or his game that exuded HOF, but your case re his offense (underrated and overlooked) and his defense have merit.
deweybelongsinthehall
Hard to rate Hernandez who had other attributes. He was like having a manager on the field. Only negatives were his power lacked for such a power oriented position and I think Jim Abbot had a better throwing, using his right upper limb. The problem with Mattingly besides his short career, Hernandez and Garvey is there were other strong first basemen then. Many ridicule Bill Buckner for one play that he shouldn’t have been on the field for but look at his stats and those of Cecil Cooper.
fox471 Dave
Good reply dimetrios. Classy.
SimbaHOF2019
If you look at actual stats Its clear Hernandez was a much better first baseman than Garvey. Its not close. He was offensively better and defensively considered possibly the greatest fielding 1B ever! Garvey was the most overhyped underdeserving player in history. The years he got MVP votes are a joke. Many more deserving players.
Metsfan78
Marvin Miller finally got his due, all the players owe this man so much for everything he did for the players.
cubsnomore
Yep. My Dad was drafted by the Yankees in the 1950’s. He had zero chance of making it through to the bigs. The starting rotation was so amazing. Plus they lasted 10+ years each.
Without free agency my Dad could not go to any other team. He was stuck. So he quit and got a real job.
tycobb016
cubsnomore- did you ever read the book Dynasty by Peter Golenbock. Not sure of the writers last name, something like that. Covers the time of your father’s drafting. Good stuff on those Yankee pitchers you mention.
cubsnomore
Sounds like a good Xmas present. Thanks
wayneroo
Golenback wrote a great book with Sparky Lyle called The Bronx Zoo outlining his 1978 in diary form. Bought it new and still have it.
agentx
My favorite anecdote of Lyle’s is his decision to steer clear of one minor-league trainer’s upon hearing him diagnose teammate Kenny Wright with “a case of tenderitis.”
stan lee the manly
It’s about time for both of these guys. This is why the Modern Era is a really good thing for baseball, they made the right choice here. Congrats to both.
Abbysreds
Dave Parker
retire21
Absolutely
Strike Four
TBH all of the guys on the ballot except Mattingly should be in.
dimitrios in la
Not.
DaveParkerHOF
Um yeah, I second that!
tigerfan4ever
Lou Whitaker got snubbed yet again.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Picked a bad time to go dancing; sweet lou
Bassballz13
About time Simmons got in. Well deserved.
Alabama Braves Fan 8
Dale Murphy gets no love
Eatdust666
Marvin Miller? What a joke.
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
Marvin Miller is the most important baseball figure of the past 50 years. So no — it isn’t a joke.
dazhk
Could not agree more!!!! Marvin Miller is the single most important executive the past 50 years. He should have been in long ago.
nymetsking
Anyone saying he shouldn’t be in is the joke.
AngelDiceClay
What? Every player from 1977 going forward should give him a % if their pay. Him and Curt Flood. This guy did a lot for the players and the game. Got the players arbitration, better fields to play on and above all else, free agency.
BSBledsoe
Simmons also played in the World Series as a member of the Milwaukee Brewers…
dimitrios in la
Against the Cards.
mike156
The committee and the sport did the right thing with Marvin Miller.
carlos15
Albert Belle isn’t in because writers don’t like him. Dude was a monster.
Strike Four
That goes double for Dick Allen and Kevin Brown.
JoeBrady
That goes double for Dick Allen and Kevin Brown.
————————————————-
Brown was good, but only 211 wins, 6x AS, and no C.Y.
But Dick Allen is in the Golden Days committee, which votes next year. He got 11 votes, so I am hoping he picks up one more vote. He was about the best hitter in baseball for 10-11 years. That deserves recognition.
Dock_Elvis
Dick Allen was something else. Albert Belle? No…sorry…not steroid era depth there. We’re just putting in anyone who made the all star team now
iamhector24
You don’t think Mattingly should go in but you are pro Kevin Brown? Oh the laughter.
♪
I think many voters also think Belle used PED’s. While there are players in the Hall who draw a lot of PED suspicion, such as Bagwell and Piazza, Belle didn’t have the career they had.
Dick Allen is another player whose HOF chances may have been hurt by a bad reputation.
MoRivera 1999
And Thome.
AngelDiceClay
Albert Belle was a hole not a HOF caliber player
DarkSide830
Belle waa great, but not enough longevity for most voters. if i had a vote id think id vote for him, but few players get the benefit of of the doubt that they would have continued to produce if not for injuries. Koufax is proof you have to be inner circle-caliber to get that benefit.
Dumpster Divin Theo
A monster on wheels. Trick or treat this!
SimbaHOF2019
He was at least the equal of Jim Rice.
goldenmisfit
While I understand Don Mattingly not even coming close even though the first half of his career he was the best player in the game his second half due to injuries fell flat but, seriously no Thurman Munson? Is this a joke? How is this guy not in?
bronxbomber245
agreed. Munson was easily the 1st or 2nd best catcher in the 70s..
Dock_Elvis
No way in HADES Munson was better than Johnny Bench…none. Bench is very likely the greatest catcher of all time. You can put whoever there #2
rct
Total agreement. Excellent numbers, both traditional and advanced, and he had an MVP and a ROY. Had he lived and played another five years, I think he would have been a no-brainer.
dimitrios in la
ROY is not a credential for HOF.
rct
There’s no such thing as a ‘credential’ for the HoF. You take a look at a player’s body of work. Having a ROY doesn’t make his case but it certainly pads the resume despite whatever objections you seem to have.
dimitrios in la
That’s more what I mean—I actually think it lads the resume little to not at all. Someone winning or missing out on ROY, IMHO, has no bearing on their Hall credibility.
rct
I agree that it doesn’t have much impact, but to say that it has ‘no bearing’ might be a little too far, especially for a guy whose career was cut so short. You have to scrutinize what he did accomplish that much more because you have less of a body of work to go by.
I mean, I generally think things like ROY or All-Star games are pretty meaningless, but it is noteworthy that Munson won it and was in the AS game seven times.
Strike Four
Agreed, honestly every player but Mattingly on that ballot should go in.
bronxbomber245
Absolutely. All were better players than Baines
Dumpster Divin Theo
Nope
CFAP
You’ve said this twice with nothing to back it up.
steelerbravenation
You must be a Yankee fan
Munson was a very good player but being a Yankee isn’t the thing that pushes somebody over the top
It’s sad what happened but if he played a few more years he is in but he didn’t and he falls short.
dimitrios in la
Munson was good—and to Yankees fans great, and the heart and soul of some good teams—but there’s nothing there that shouts HOF.
And that’s just it: whoever gets elected to the HOF should have a resume that shouts HOF. None of the guys under current discussion, including Simmons, has that. Period.
SimbaHOF2019
Some are shouting. You just arent paying attention. Simmons was great at a time of great catchers. Try getting 8 All star games with Bench, Carter , Sanguillen, Boone, playing in the same league at the same time.
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Well I only know Marvin Miller because of Jim Bouton’s book Ball Four
Heck, maybe the veteran committee could have considered Jim Bouton if they are going to put in Miller
Also, I was reading an article about Dave Parker and yeah I thinking he should be in now.
If he wasn’t injured a couple times and the 1981 season was cut short because of the strike, Parker would have had 3000 hits, I am thinking
steelerbravenation
Ok he could have but the HOF isn’t about or shouldn’t be about could haves.
Dock_Elvis
Cocaine. The Cobra made the game look bad. But his time is due
dimitrios in la
You know if Mark Prior and Kerry Wood wouldn’t have been injured….
SimbaHOF2019
Parker didnt take care of his body thats why he got injured. he was out partying too much. I remember him smoking cigarettes in the dugout with a pot belly about the time he got hurt. I also think he had some help when he was in Cinncinati to come back with those numbers.
Matt Galvin
Others can still get.
rct
Since retired players don’t have their pages autolinked, here’s Simmons’ stats:
baseball-reference.com/players/s/simmote01.shtml
Strike Four
No Lou Whitaker = racist. He at minimum equal to Trammell and arguably better.
everlastingdave
Maybe, maybe not. We can agree it’s pretty stupid.
dimitrios in la
Almost as stupid as the comment you responded to.
SaberSmuckers
Harold Baines is black.
He got in last year.
Up until this year, the person that was voted in with the highest percentage was Ken Griffey Jr., he is black.
You trolled earlier that Mattingly isn’t a HoF (which I agree with, but I have reasons that make sense) because he only had one MVP. Yet Whitaker, who only showed up once in MVP voting, where he finished 8th, should be in. Let me guess, he has a ring so he should be in?
You really need to get a life, or just go away.
tycobb016
strike four- do you want quotas for HOF elections? Trammel doesn”t belong either. two wrongs don’t make a right. Feel better?
Strike Four
Yeah, actually I think every player who doesnt have 60 WAR belongs in the HOF, I feel better you are finally seeing my point.
tycobb016
strike four- no thank you
dgk71
Only asking because I respect the knowledge here. How does Thurman Munson stack up statistically to Bench, Simmons & Fisk?
TrueOutcomeFan
1st link below is in order of JAWS ranking, but you can sort by other stats as well. If you’re not familiar with JAWS, the second link is an explanation. Hope this was what you were looking for. Apologies if not.
baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml
baseball-reference.com/about/jaws.shtml
rct
Wow. With Ted Simmons now in, only Mauer (not yet eligible) is above Munson and not in the Hall.
Dock_Elvis
I gave up after Baines…if Mauer gets in and ranks above Munson then I’m sorry….were talking Hall of Very Good on Munson.
hiflew
Why doe everyone think “Very Good” and “Fame” are on the same scale? Hall of Very Good makes sense if it is called the Hall of Excellent, but how did it ever start being the next step down from Fame?
Dock_Elvis
To me it’s like a mountain..you go further down the mountain from the peak things spread out. It’s not a language technicality. I dont personally believe a generation has more than a handful of true legends. I dont think every teams best player over a decade deserves enshrinement. My bar is high. I’m talking Greg Maddux but not Tom Glavine.
dgk71
Thank you. Very helpful.
41em
What a shame it took baseball 20 years to elect Marvin Miller. It would have been so much more appropriate and deserving to do so when he was alive.
AngelDiceClay
That’s a big problem I have with these commities. They put the guy in after he passes away.
James1955
Marvin Miller ruined baseball. Before free agency small market teams could compete and you could hold onto a core and the players had 1 year contracts. The players were paid for performance. and ticket prices were lower.
Strike Four
Anti-union sentiment = you are right wing
Sorry, this is just how the world works. You might like baseball and the transaction part of it, but you do not deserve a voice in a free country, just as you are fighting for.
Please ban this clown, MLBTR.
Arnold Ziffel
Idiot, no one can have another opinion, right Bernie fan
SaberSmuckers
Lol, wait. You want someone banned?
That is hilarious because you are the worst.
rayrayner
Strike Four accused David Freese of being a PED user during the last couple of years. Go check out the comments of the article for Freese’s retirement. It contains a fairly genuine rebuttal from the subject himself.
Strike Four
That’s hilarious because if you hate what I say, you are actually admitting you are a psycho level poster who needs to chill.
Chill.
Strike Four
Freese was CLEARLY roiding, COME. ON.
SaberSmuckers
That’s insane, sounds like a nut job.
He also said that the Yankees were only good the past 30 years because of the mafia’s involvement.
He’s not stable.
rayrayner
He’s both. A bad troll.
terry g
He only can have a voice if he agrees with you? Idiot. You don’t have any idea what a Free country is. I disagree with James comment but he ha the right to believe it and say it.
Strike Four
he ha can shut up too, loser.
SaberSmuckers
Was that your attempt at English?
Impressive.
fox471 Dave
Wow, strike four. Relax! Speaking of typical: talk about banning people because you don’t like what they say? Thanks for revealing who you really are.
jd396
“Please ban this clown, MLBTR”
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The same way Lincoln, Grant and Sherman ruined the 19th century cotton industry.
TrueOutcomeFan
How them boots taste?
CFAP
Ted Simmons, age 70, and his 50.3 WAR finally gets in, yet “experts” think Molina and his 40.2 WAR is a slam dunk first time hall of famer?
whyhayzee
Ask Molina’s pitchers what his WAR is, probably over 200.
CFAP
Too bad that’s not how things work, but nice try. And I’ll make sure to ask the pitchers that Bob Boone and Jim Sundburg caught.
dimitrios in la
Please do ask and you’ll find that Sunburg would have in their eyes a negative WAR; had a reputation fir a long time of being awful with pitchers actually.
CFAP
Awesome! Then Sundburg’s WAR of 40.5, same as Molina, isn’t worthy of HOF. Much like all their gold gloves of 6 and 9. Thanks for proving my point that both Sundburg and Molina don’t belong in the HOF.
fox471 Dave
“Molina’s pitchers will not be voting. If Molina gets in, might as well close the Hall.
SaberSmuckers
Simmons WAR was predominantly from his offense as a catcher/first baseman. Molina’s is about 50/50 between his offense and defense, he’s known as an all-time great defensive catcher.
That could be part of it, not sure.
dimitrios in la
And Molina has a reputation—deserved—around the league that is downright legendary. That’s not achieved by accident, or by being crappy.
CFAP
Legendary? Now there’s a blown out of proportion word. Molina is fortunate that he got to play in an era of mediocre catchers.
moe 3
Great news for Ted he certainly deserves it
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
Finally, Marvin Millers get in. He is probably the most influential and important baseball figure of the past 50 years. He was despised by the owners, like no other figure in baseball history. I am unsure of why previous attempts have been unsuccessful for Miller as the players certainly wanted him in. During Miller’s tenure as the Executive Director of the MLBPA, the average player’s annual salary rose from $19,000 in 1966 to $326,000 in 1982. He also helped foster in the modern free agency and collective bargaining process. R.I.P. and congrats to Marvin Miller.
Hank Aaron on Miller — “Marvin Miller should be in the Hall of Fame if the players have to break down the doors to get him in.” Tom Seaver — “Marvin’s exclusion from the Hall of Fame is a national disgrace.”
Joe Morgan said, “They should vote him in and then apologize for making him wait so long.”
Broadcaster Bob Costas – “There is no non-player more deserving of the Hall of Fame.”[
2003 and 2007 Balloting
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
I was adding the quotes — taken from Wikipedia — and raced against the clock to clean the quotes up. Excuse the messiness.
Strike Four
Miller is a legend to the players. The owners hate him. Perfect person.
whyhayzee
Good for Ted Simmons. Definitely a solid hitter, feared and respected in his time. I was not a Marvin Miller fan but he is clearly HOF worthy.
cincinnatikid
The name not being mentioned is Dave Concepticion much more deserving than Ozzie Smith. The problem was he was overshadowed by the rest of the big red machine
Strike Four
Concepcion: 40.1/39.7 bWAR/fWAR
Lou Whitaker: 75.1/68.1 bWAR/fWAR
Please fight better fights.
SaberSmuckers
You’re clearly not picking a fight, as the genius stated.
You’re just posting your opinion.
With that said, Concepcion was not better than Ozzie.
rct
Ozzie Smith was–by a wide margin–better than Concepcion. Take off your Cincinnati Reds fan glasses for a moment and try looking t it objectively.
mlb1225
While I know he wasn’t up for election, they should consider putting in Brian Giles in the Hall Of Fame. He had a .902 OPS, and was just .009 BA points away from being part of the .300/.400/.500 club.
steelerbravenation
Brian Giles is not a HOF
mlb1225
I didn’t really think he was either, but if Baines, who I think Giles had a better career than, can make it in, then I don’t see why Giles can’t.
Strike Four
Brian Giles has a 51.1/54.8 bWAR/fWAR
Lou Whitaker has a 75.1/68.1 bWAR/fWAR
Please fight better fights.
SocraticGadfly
Sweet Lou is the biggest wrong on this year’s ballot. Munson the second biggest wrong.
mlb1225
Harold Baines: 38.7 bWAR/38.4 fWAR, .820 OPS, 121 OPS+
Brian Giles: .902 OPS, 136 OPS+
Not saying he was totally ripped off, but there are far worse guys in the Hall.
jd396
Says the guy whining about race a little ways down the page
bobtillman
Marvin Miller SAVED baseball. I agree with Red Barber; the three biggest figures in MLB history were Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson, and Miller.
A guy that suffered the slings of anti-Semitism (from the owners; “tell that Jew boy to go back to Brooklyn”, one said) and idiocy on the part of people he was trying to help (players) The task was enormous, and he did an unbelievable job. SOME historians claim that all the changes he authored would have happened anyway; but there is NO doubt he moved them along.
And there’s no pro-union or anti-union argument. EVERYBODY in MLB owes a piece of their profit or paycheck to Marvin Miller.
bravesfan
Go Bravos! Stacking them Braves in the hall
steelerbravenation
Next up gotta be Murph
Back to back MVPs how is he not in
SocraticGadfly
Because Murphy is not even CLOSE to the HOF. Nowhere NEAR. That’s how.
I’ve dealt with his case in particular for you Tomahawk Choppers, starting with him not deserving one of the two MVP awards. socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2019/12/no-really-dale…
dimitrios in la
Dear lord no!!
SocraticGadfly
Ted Simmons was not a Brave except for a small cup of coffee. He’ll go in as a Cardinal and be thought of as a Cardinal. The Brewers have much more claim than the Barves, for that matter.
You Tomahawk Choppers can be obnoxious.
fox471 Dave
Was Miller a Brave? You can’t be talking about Simmons who spent most of his career in St. Louis.
DarkSide830
“Ted Simmons” and “Hall of Fame” have always been two phrases that have seemed to fit together. mentally i always had to correct myself when i thought he had been elected.
TrueOutcomeFan
Right?!?!
Koamalu
Congrats to Miller. It is about time that he was elected. He should have been in far before Selig. Most important exec in baseball in the last 50 years.
Arnold Ziffel
Miller ruined baseball for Small markets, guys lie Simmons and Baines have turned Hall of Fame into Hall of Good
MoRivera 1999
You obviously don’t know what it was like to be a ML ballplayer before Miller, do you? Either that or you don’t care…
jd396
Because being a small market team in the reserve clause era was so great
groundhog5150
@ Arnold
Just seeing your name makes me want to go fry some bacon.
krillin89
Was really hoping Dale Murphy would get it
ffjsisk
Murph is deserving. I’ve heard so many arguments for other big market guys but Murph gets left out. It’s a shame.
Simodine
I watched these guys play and they were very good even great for short periods. Simmons numbers as a catcher do scream hall worthy.
This is starting to feel a bit like the current system. Get a decent % one time and build up to get you in. I get that from how the writer’s version is but we are talking about 100’s of voters not 16.
I think it should be one and done from this committee or better yet eliminating this part all together.
Strike Four
Roger Bresnahan, Phil Rizzuto, Ray Schalk, Jesse Haines, Jesse Haines, Lloyd Waner, Tinker/Evers/Chance, Bill Mazeroski, Bruce Sutter = all make HOF
Lou Whitaker and Dick Allen = not good enough
MLB = “Why are African-Americans not playing baseball??”
Worst run pro sport in America
rayrayner
Harold Baines and Lee Smith are African Americans. Your comments are so bad, it’s ridiculous.
SaberSmuckers
I have no idea what to make of that tool. Do you think he’s trolling or does he not understand the game? And other things for that matter.
No one could be this bad, has to be a troll.
JoeBrady
I think Whitaker & Allen deserve the HOF. But you are an absolute idiot.
wayneroo
Not sure I agree with your first sentence ,but I 100% agree with your second.
dimitrios in la
Gosh what a sad and reckless post.
wayneroo
I didn’t realize there were two guys named Jessie Haines in the HOF. Interesting,
rct
He was so good they inducted him in twice. Maybe the Veteran’s Committee can right a serious wrong and induct him in a third time next year. It’s long overdue.
rct
Dick Allen should get in next year. He’s on the ‘Golden Years’ ballot. Maury Wills and Minnie Minoso have a good shot (based on voting numbers from last time). So there goes your ‘racist’ argument, I guess.
fox471 Dave
Oh yeah. Now I remember you Strike Four.
jd396
Let me know how your civil commitment hearing goes
shortytallz
Dale Murphy gets penalized for not being a compiler, which is wrong.
wayneroo
The guy played 18 seasons. At what point does someone start being a compiler?
Attystephenadams
It’s been a travesty that the MLB execs have kept MIller out of the Hall for all of these years. It’s no secret that they did it out of spite. He was one of the most important individuals in the history of the game. Sadly, I’m wondering how many of today’s players would have a clue who he was and what they owe to him.
Mystery Team
Catchers have to be judged differently and Simmons played a long time and had 2400 hits, with a solid .285 lifetime average and a decent OPS. He belongs but it’s close. Now if he were anything other than a catcher he’d have zero chance.
wordonthestreet
But he is a catcher so he gets compared to catchers. That is no different than any other position group
Vizionaire
VOTE BONDS IN!
fox471 Dave
Never!!!!
Vizionaire
he had never tested positive while steroids were against mlb rules. babe ruth was an alcoholic when drinking was illegal.
jd396
Oh, sweet jeezus, if you’re going to make a Bonds HOF argument please, for the love of all things good and sacred, do not use anything contained in this post as part of your argument
Vizionaire
there are a lot of ped user in hof. for one, hank aaron was using greenies. anyone who hit more home runs during steroids era are suspects. and if a-roid and david ortiz are voted in, why hold bonds only accountable for periods of steroids use?
66TheNumberOfTheBest
So, we as a society have gone from “cheaters never win” to “PUT THEM IN THE HALL OF FAME!!!!”?????
F…orget that.
butch779988
Dwight Evans was deserving.
Dock_Elvis
The Hall lost me a long time ago. I feel it should be for the absolute most deserving of each generation. To me there might not be more than half a dozen in each. Why does David Glass get to vote on this? Hall of Very Good to me. Johnny Bench is the model of that generation. You need to be close to him as a catcher. But with Baines in…its an open contest. It’s not my HOF either way. Great players…just not the pinnacle.
its_happening
Good choices. Simmons’ induction might give Munson a better chance in the future.
619bird
There’s a lot of guys who may be deserving of making the hall. I’m sure guys like John, Donny Baseball, Murphy and Evans will get in eventually. It’s almost like some of the people who watched them play are afraid of either the play or themselves will croak before they get in.
With this announcement and the Cardinals being a part of Competitive Balance round A. It’s a good week to be a redbird fan. lol
fanofthegame
Marvin Miller shouldn’t of taken a spot of a ballplayer. They need to make a separate vote for guys who are not ball players to get in the hall., So only one player got in that is a really joke.
troll
what the heck is a near-miss?
charlesk
if catcher Ted Simmons can get in to the Hall of Fame via the Modern Era Ballot, why can’t Dave Stieb?
Simmons has a career bWAR of 50.3; Stieb’s was 56.4 (16.3 more than Parker, 18.3 more than Garvey and 14 more than Mattingly).
Not to mention, Stieb had 140 wins as a starter through the 1980s, second only to Hall of Famer Jack Morris. He racked up a 3.29 ERA in 373 starts and 2597.0 from 1980-1991.
SimbaHOF2019
I would have voted for Stieb over Morris who makes another romantic over statistics pick.
miltpappas
I always liked Simmons and he should be congratulated, but I lost interest in this whole thing when Harold Baines was elected. You put someone like Baines in, but guys like Maris, Dwight Evans and Tommy John aren’t in?
Oxford Karma
How is Ted Simmons a better player than Thurman Munson. This is nonsense.
Munson 7 AS in 11 years, an MVP, three top ten finishes. 2 rings. A stud in the postseason. 30 games .357 19 tune 3 hr 22 rbi
46.1 WAR In 5344 AB 3 gold gloves
Simmons 8 AS in 21 years, 2 top 10 MVP
50.1 WAR in 8680 AB 1 silver slugger. .186 postseason avg.
It’s not even that close
douglasb
we never saw Munson decline beyond his last season, which was already mediocre. we never saw some bad years from him like Ted Simons had late in his career. so their career offensive slash lines look similar enough, but through age 32 there is no doubt Simmons was a better hitter.
you show higher WAR and higher # of AS games for Simmons and claim that means Munson was clearly better? Not seeing your logic there.
Simmons was better offensively and Munson was better defensively.
a case can be made Munson belongs. but his case is hardly a travesty.
Oxford Karma
My war comparison was that in they were about 8 seasons away in at bats and about two seasons of war. Simmons made more all star games. Munson made it nearly ever year he has mates. I wanted to be fair. I’m not saying Simmons is totally undeserving. He was really good. Just feel like these committees putting in guys who got 3% or Baines who fell off after a few years, maybe should reevaluate how they are choosing.
PHOENIX
Ted Simmons belongs in the hall of fame, so does Dave Parker, Dale Murphy and Thurmon Munson.
Marvin Miller does not, but the brown nose politically correct writers need Browny points, the Writers have no business voting,,only managers and former players should vote.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: build another building next to the railroad tracks in Cooperstown, Build it for the baseball writers, many of whom couldn’t even play little league ball , and call it THE COOPERSTOWN HALL OF SHAME
Dock_Elvis
Writers didnt vote on this…go read the list.
riffraff
Best way to fix the HOF is to cap the membership at whatever it is now. Then from this point forward in order to add a player you have to remove a player. You want Simmons in? Great now pick who he replaces and kick that player out. Over the course of time this will eliminate the ” well this player should get in because this other player who is worse got in”
tedsfrozenhead
Uh…..No
It is the Hall of the Immortals
SimbaHOF2019
How about this. To be elected you have to be at least close to the Avg HOFer in War and Jaws OPS+.
That way you keep raising the bar while still electing players for the fans.
If your the best all time in any worthwhile catagory , you should be in.
DannyQ3913
How is Dick Allen not in the HOF?
tedsfrozenhead
It is a shame isn’t it?
Tony The Wiz
A total failure by this committee. Three players should of been put in and they were the best or next to best players at their position when they were playing. Those three are Don Mattingly who was the best player in the American League for a good amount of time until his unfortuntate back injury, Steve Garvey who was the best First Baseman in the National league when he was playing, and the biggest embarrassment by this Hall of Fame is the exclusion of the 2nd best catcher, Thurman Munson, to Johnny Bench when he was playing until his unfortunate death. It is a slap in the face by this committee to induct Ted Simmons a catcher over Munson. It just shows you have to take the vote out of former players and former baseball team organization employees to keep the feelings out of making these decisions. Put these votes into the hands of Baseball Writers, Baseball announcers, and Baseball Historians. The last two years has been a travesty.
SimbaHOF2019
Garvey is a Joke. Look at the actual numbers, NOT his overated awards . He was never good enough to be an MVP. writers were mental midgets back then.