An already impressive Reds rotation became deeper Wednesday, as the team announced the signing of left-hander Wade Miley to a two-year contract worth a guaranteed $15MM. (The Reds, unlike most clubs, revealed the basic contractual terms themselves.) The pact also contains a club option for the 2022 season that is reported to be worth $10MM and comes with a $1MM buyout. Miley, a client of O’Connell Sports Management, will earn $6MM in 2020 and $8MM in 2021, and he can reportedly take home another $500K annually via an incentives package. The contract nearly matches the two-year, $16MM prediction MLBTR made for Miley at the outset of free agency.
Miley, 33, gives the Reds a southpaw option to add to a rotation that already included a highly talented quartet of right-handers: Luis Castillo, Sonny Gray, Trevor Bauer and Anthony DeSclafani. At least on paper, plugging in Miley as the last member of the group upgrades the Reds’ rotation and improves their chances of breaking a six-year playoff drought in 2020.
Miley was also a free agent in each of the past couple offseasons, but this is the best the well-traveled hurler has done on the open market thus far. After settling for a minor league deal and reviving his career as a member of the Brewers in 2018, Miley joined the Astros for a $4.5MM guarantee last winter.
That proved to be a decent deal for both sides, as Miley — despite continuing to throw fastballs in only the 90 mph range — helped the Astros to an AL West title with 167 1/3 regular-season innings of 3.98 ERA/4.51 FIP ball with 7.53 K/9, 3.28 BB/9 and a 49.7 percent groundball rate. He wasn’t without his warts, though, as a brutal stretch of starts in September eventually led to Miley being omitted from the Astros’ World Series roster. Nevertheless, Miley’s body of work over the past two seasons is undeniably solid and has clearly convinced many in the industry that he’s again a viable rotation piece.
For Miley, heading to Cincinnati reunites him with pitching coach Derek Johnson. It was Johnson, then Milwaukee’s pitching coach, who helped bring Miley’s career back to life a couple years ago. And now that the Reds’ rotation appears to be complete, they’re free to turn their focus to other needs (shortstop? Catcher? Outfield? Bullpen?) as they continue to seek a return to relevance.
From a payroll vantage point, the team should have some financial breathing room in order to further add to the existing roster. Roster Resource’s Jason Martinez projects a $124MM Opening Day payroll that is a stone’s throw away from last year’s Opening Day mark of roughly $126MM, but owner Bob Castellini and the Reds’ front office have preached aggression as they’ve moved from a longstanding rebuilding effort and shifted into a win-now mentality in what looks to be an increasingly vulnerable NL Central division.
MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand first reported the agreement and the terms (Twitter link). Joel Sherman and Ken Davidoff of the New York Post added details on the incentives and option value (Twitter links).
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Good move. Gritty pitcher that will win you 11 games in the back end of the rotation.
Good move by the Reds. They see this as a down year for the Cubs and Cardinals don’t seem to be anything. Reds seem to be going for it. The rotation and lineup look really good. Votto-Moustakas-Suarez-Aquino as the 2-3-4-5. Should have 30+HRs from 3-4-5. You know Senzel is going to be a star one day. Will it be this year or next year? If Bauer bounces back, Castillo-Gray-Bauer-Miley looks like the best in the division. With Iglesias, closing games out. This team looks like it is primed to win the division…..and no i’m not kidding.
If Senzel could do anything approaching his minor league stats at the top of the order, the offense will be great. It’d be nice to get another steady hitter though. I’m not sold on Aquino being able to adjust to MLB pitching.
Why would they go after Wade Miley instead if Julio Teheran? Teheran isn’t spectacular but he is better than Miley. Teheran is a lock for a minimum 170+ innings pitched and throws harder than Mikey. Not to mention Julio has a lower ERA and a lower FIP. Considering the Braves turned down a 1 year $11 million deal on Teheran I am pretty sure he would have taken this deal. I guess maybe the ground ball rate? Julio does have a problem with homers because when you miss in the zone at 92 it usually gets jacked. Maybe they thought Teheran wasn’t a good fit for Great American Ballpark even though he is clearly a better pitcher? What do you guys think?
I’d say the relationship with Johnson was probably more of a factor than either velocity and ERA.
Cardinals aren’t anything? They made the nlcs and have the same roster except Ozuna, who they could potentially resign. Your an idiot. Plus Votto isn’t the same Votto that people always loved
I wouldn’t call anyone an idiot if you can’t tell the difference between your and you’re.
No, but even though he has declined, you can still Clint on him to provide a solid OBP. That’s pretty valuable when ylj have a deep line up who can drive him in.
BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
He finished a close second for NL MVP 2 years ago. Anybody watching could tell he wasn’t healthy. Expect a bounce back this year.
They still need a left fielder and bullpen help winkler sucks
What does “the Fonz” sucking have to do with baseball?
OTHER THAN LINDOR, THE REDS
NEED TO FIX THEIR BULLPEN, THE
REDS COULD HAVE WON A LOT
MORE GAMES, IF THE BULLPEN
HADN’T SCREWED UP SO BADLY!!!!!!!!
OTHER THAN LINDOR, THE REDS
NEED TO FIX THEIR BULLPEN, THE
REDS COULD HAVE WON A LOT
MORE GAMES, IF THE BULLPEN
HADN’T SCREWED UP SO BADLY!!!!!!!!
RAIZEL IGGLESIA BLEW SOMETHING
LIKE 11 GAMES THIS PAST SEASON,
WHICH I THINK WAS HIS HIGHEST
EVER. MAYBE LORENZON SHOULD
BE THE CLOSER? HELL HE COULD
COME IN THE 8TH. INNING.
THE. REDS SHOULD STOP USING
HIM IN THE OUTFIELD, HE’S TOO
VALUABLE TO MAYBE GETTING
HURT OUT THERE!
Another southpaw the Sox let get away.
I wonder what they are up to?! Price deal?
Fire Billy Eppler
lol.
This was a bad fit. Billy and the Angels general philopshy is velo over all. Miley was not that and they werent gonna go outside of that. Id be surprised if the Halos didnt sign Kuechel and a reclamation and then go look for a Walker or Tehran.
wasnt really suggesting that Eppler should had made a move for Miley. overall disappointing with The Rangers not giving up much for Kluber. The D backs got a good deal on Bumgarner. spent the correct amount of money but picked up the wrong National free agent. Everyone knew Cole was going to the Yankee’s, Eppler just help drive up Cole’s price tag
I wouldn’t judge Eppler regarding Kluber until the season is over.
Eppler has to sign a pitcher, I’d sign two. Judge him next September. Unlike last year, this year the Angels are going for it.
This is considered going for it? Acquiring Dylan Bundy and negotiating with the leftover scraps of the pitching market?
I guess Angel fans have a pretty low bar set for “going for it” lol
He has been the GM for 3 seasons and has failed to land a true number 1 ace. Trevor, Cahill, Matt Harvey and no bullpen. not a good track record
That’s fair. The big mistake was Wheeler. And yes, when you spend money on the best free agent player in years, Rendon, it means you are going for it.
Kluber has huge warts, maybe he’ll do well maybe he wont,
You think the Angels are not going to do anything else? They are going to add someone a lot better than Wade Miley.
They already added the best free agent in years.
I guess the low bar is having the best outfield in baseball and having the best two three four hitter combination in baseball. That’s a low bar.
This is not an Angel thread, so I shouldn’t talk about the Angels, but most people know nothing about the Angels other than their record last year.
There’s possibly 2-3 free agent pitchers better than Miley at this point in time.
I figure it’s Keuchel and Ryu. Then Alex Wood? Mac, you better hope it’s one of those guys.
The Angels needed a lot more than Rendon and Bundy……Like a catcher……
i hope your right. We see the teams that make the world series have a true ace and a strong runner up.
When you sign him for 9 years, you give yourself more time to get all the pieces in place
Dylan “going for it” Bundy aka shake off the catcher to throw another bp fastball that lands 12 rows back.
You’re gonna be trading Marsh to the Tigers for Matt Boyd here shortly. lel
What kind of sense does that make? You claim the Angels philosophy is “velocity over all” and then you project them to sign Keuchel. You realize Keuchel barely scrapes 89 on his heater?
This three pitchers you named at the bottom of your post are exactly the three I want the Jays yo go after. One veteran and two youngish guys that fit the Jays timeline. Wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see Trout get some pitching talent during his prime years though.
@bkbk
Wait. You say Miley is a bad fit for the Angels because they value “velo over all.” But you would be surprised if they didn’t sign Keuchel? Strange logic.
Miley wouldn’t move the needle for them and his stuff is not very good. Smart pass.
He’s not a bad pitcher, he won several 16 games in 2019, he b a 4 or 5 starter, not a bad rotation for the Redlegs!!
He’s bad for that ball park.
He did well in same type of ball park in Milwaukee, under same pitching coach. He’s no 20 game winner but a 4 or 5 starter
I don;t know what you see why this is Eppler’s fault. The Yankees overpaid for Cole. we pivoted and landed on Rendon. I am ok on how it worked out. We do need pitching and it has been frustrating not being able to land anything in years. I am ok with trading Marsh if we have to, but not for a something unpredictable like Kluber. was. Just do not do anything desperate and trade Adell. I knew Madison Bumgarner would stay in the NL so he could swing the bat. I do not want Ryu, because he is always hurt. We have enough of that recently. Hopefull Angels can get Keuchel. His pitching style meshes well with the Angels defense.. I expect a trade at some point.
A lot of what happens are Moreno’s decisions. He is more of the Jerry Jones type than a hands off owner. It is his money, so I cant blame him. He once told the old GM, Tony Reagins, that he had 24 hours to get Vernon Wells or he would be fired. I mean your hands are a bit tied as a GM when you get such demands.
And the Angels overpaid on Rendon. And yes I’m a Rangers fan. And yes I wish Texas would have overpaid on Rendon as well. He’s a beast.
Good point on Moreno and Jerry Jones being similar. Nice that both owners will spend money. However their tight control on the teams decisions are preventing both teams from achieving greatness.
That’s a good signing for the reds
“For Miley, heading to Cincinnati reunites him with pitching coach Derek Johnson.”
–
A good chance you’re right.
Many made fun of the Reds and their fans at this time last year when Sonny Gray was acquired. Reuniting with his college manager got Sonny squared away.
Most MLB players are inconsistent. Winning is all about developing young players to play at the MLB level, and helping veterans make adjustments.
Getting Derek Johnson has been the best move the Reds have made in years.
This. Want to know why the some of Brewers pitching staff regressed as badly as they did last year? Look no further than Derek Johnson.
I also think getting Sonny out of NY helped dramatically. He was not cut out for NY and acknowledged it, but not everybody is. Both Sonny and the team found out too late. I’m glad to see he found a spot where he feels comfortable to perform and demonstrate his talent, because he has it. It makes the game better.
NY tried to change his pitch repertoire and how often he threw certain pitches. It had nothing to do with being in NY.
I respect and agree with your position; so, generally speaking, getting him out of NY was the best thing for him, right? He was not doing well there. He said they tried to change his style of pitching and I don’t doubt that, but that’s not the whole story if you listen to a lot of the interviews surrounding him leaving. Their advanced analytics guys would’ve realized that at some point. Nonetheless, Sonny out of NY is better for both; although we may differ on exactly why he was bad – We agree no NY is good for Sonny
It was both issues with Sonny. He wasn’t right for NY and the NY coaching staff forced him to change his pitch mix. I believe it was that they forced him to go heavy on sliders and he didn’t think his slider was a good pitch if I remember correctly.
Maybe I am wrong, but I dont remember many making fun of the Reds for getting Sonny Gray. I remember it being a semi-risky move given they gave him a contract extension but a lot of people mentioned how he was being reunited with his old pitching coach and could bounce back. I personally thought he would be better in CIN than NY too, even though he blew me away with how much better he did. Saw too many articles titled “Where did Sonny Gray’s fastball go?” in his second year with the Yanks to know that he wasnt being used optimally
Okay, as a 4 starter behind Castillo, Bauer, and Gray, is Terrific. This is the 2nd best rotation in baseball, and this just adds depth. (FWI: I do not think the rangers have the best rotation… I’m not that bad of a homer).
Lol second best rotation? Good rotation. Not second best
Yes, they don’t have the depth of the yankees. The nats have a great 1,2,3 and then there is Anibal, (who I really like). But the reds have a great 1,2,3, and Miley is just as good as Sanchez. But the nats don’t have a true 5 starter, then the reds have Sclafani, who is better than nothing. I know there is the dodgers, but after Kershaw and Buehler, unless they resign Ryu, there is just Maeda and Urias.
SO all in all here is my SP rankings
1. Yankees
2. Reds
3. Nats
4. Indians
5. Astros
That is controversial, but it could go many ways.
Yeah, younger, and on the up and up. Again, they have more depth in their ptiching so still #2.
Yankees don’t have the best rotation in baseball lol, the Rays do.
The reds have a great 1,2,3 where lol the Mets 1,2,3 are much better deGrom,Syndergaard and Stroman VS Castillo,Bauer and Gray are u serious or joking
the Rays are a joke
as long as they keep using the opener for their 4th and 5th starter, they dont qualify. they literally have thee worst rotation in baseball
In what universe do the Yankees have the best rotation in baseball?
You must be a Yankee’s fan. You have them 1st and you don’t have the Mets even in the top 5?
Yankees aren’t even top 5
I hate the yankees, and people are saying that I love them because I didn’t put the mets. TBH I literaly forgot about the mets. With them, the reds are the 3rd best rotation.
1. Yankees
2. Mets
3. Reds
4.Indians
5.Nats
With the new and improved rankings, now converse.
I’d say serious, but live life with those rose color glasses
I have to question what you guys believe Trevor Bauer is as a pitcher..Last year he had a 4.48 era and a career era of 4.04. Last year he had a 1.35 whip and a career whip of 1.295. Why are you all considering him equal to the 2 or 3 of the best staffs in baseball.Wake up. He’s not in the ballpark of pitchers like Paxton or Corbin etc
The Yankees have a much better rotation then the Mets. The Yankees have Cole Severino Paxton Tanaka German Jordan Montgomery and as of now Happ.Not to mention a possible Deivi Garcia I know Met fans like to believe they have the Cy Young Porcello and a rookie Wacha but you don’t You have a great pitcher in Deg a Thor who hasn’t been great lately a pretty good Stroman a Matz who might not even make the starting rotation and two reclamation projects. That doesn’t make a great starting rotation despite how many times the Mets fans say it.
What about the Mets?
@Rangers29 I don’t agree with your list, but I respect your opinion. The Yankees have Cole, but that is about it. Tanaka is average, Severino will be limited, and Paxton had good win loss record but not very good stats. They have a good bullpen, but a so so rotation. I would put the Nats #1., Mets#2, Astros#3, Rays#4, Reds#5…….Angels #30. Also, , dont sleep on your Rangers rotation, they could be good as well. ,
How do you include the Indians? They aren’t in the top 1/2 of MLB now
Bauer has shown to have a live arm and good pitcher. This is a contract year.
I don’t think rotation is better than NY Mets but just a strong and hopefully reds will pick up another bat to compliment that order and then will have a better overall team than Mets
Uh, Yankees aren’t even top 5 Krayall? Look I’m a Yankee fan, and one may argue they are not the #1 rotation, but not even a top 5 is a stretch considering they won 103 games and improved their rotation with an ace, and arguably the best pitcher in the league last year.
There are many baseball analysts / ex-players who claim the Yankees may have moved, rotationally, into first place, or just behind the Nats.
Again, I’m not arguing first place here; in fact, I have them as second and believe the third place team could easily be second, depending on health. But not even top 5 is also bias, if you’re being honest with yourself.
What does it matter that the Mets 1-3 starters are somewhat better than the Reds. Last I checked most teams use a 5 man rotation. The Reds clearly have a better rotation than the Mets.
2nd best? Hahha
Not even the 2nd best rotation in the NL central.
This has to be a joke, right?
You’re high if you don’t think the Reds have the best rotation in the Central.
I’d take Castillo in a NY minute… that kid can throw
You’re a complete moron if you think the reds DON’T have the best rotation in the Central. Either that or you’re clueless who’s in the diction.
As of Dec. 17th, best rotations in NL Central:
1. Reds
2. Cardinals but Pirates very close
3. Pirates
4. Cubs
5. Brewers
This i also how I feel the division would finish IF the season started today. However, I don’t think the Cubs will wait too much longer to make a move. If Bumgarner could have been had for 5 yrs, 85M then Ryu can be had for that or less, which they can afford once they move Bryant. Darvish, Ryu, Hendricks, Lester, Quintana looks very competitive. Of course if they don’t get Ryu, then the Bryant trade most likely brings back someone like Fried from the Braves which isn’t go to help as much.
I think the rangers may actually have a better rotation lol. I’d take the Nationals, Astros, Yankees, Red Sox,Dodgers, etc are before the reds.
Bruinsfan, don’t forget the Mets ahead of Cinci – even without Wheeler.
Mets are the all time waste of pitching potential hall of fame number one. Porcello should have signed with the Indians, As, Rays or Astros to restore his career.
As a Miley fan, I’m glad he’s on the Reds. Not the best at maximizing talent, but at least they don’t squander it.
no way you’re taking the red sox rotation unless you gaurantee health
Wouldn’t take the Red Sox over the reds until you know if price is staying or going, how sale’s shoulder is, and at what point in the season will eovaldi get hurt. But I agree on all the other teams.
How can you list the Red Sox.You wouldn’t be able to even name 5 starting pitchers. You have a questionable Sale a fading Price a terrible Eovaldi and a good not great Eduardo Rodriguez and thats it..And how couldn’t you name Tampa Bay.Clearly better then the Sox and probably better then most teams on your list
Astros and Dodgers have some BIG holes now. Nope
Who has the best?
Rangers with Lynn, Minor and KLUBOT now of course! LOL
Yankees.
Ya, maybe. If they’re all healthy.
I think this is based on an inherent presumption of health, otherwise you can make the same argument for every rotation and that would change every ranking. For example, if Verlander blows out his elbow or age catches him, they’re not top 5 either. There are too many variables, so he’s listing as is, including if the pitcher is currently injured, i.e., Sale.
Your favorite team’s staff is second in New York. But they do have a top 5 rotation.
If this is the second best rotation in baseball.I have to wonder who you think is the best because I can come up with a couple I like better then them
If Bauer can bounce back then yes top 2-3 starting 5 in baseball
Not sold he’s an upgrade to Mahle but I suppose the Reds feel he is.
he is a lefty
Mahle can move into the bullpen as long man. Win-win
I have to give Miley credit for working through some DOWN years to get where he is. I just remember what a train wreck he was in Boston and Baltimore. Thought he’d end up in Japan after the O’s wisely let him walk, but he’s reinvented himself.
With him back working with DJ- he should be fantastic
They already have a pretty good and deep rotation. They need to get some outfield bats and some bullpen depth and they may can steal the NL central especially with the Brewers and Cubs expected to decline some.
agree but at least they did not spend much
I wonder if the Reds could trade a rotation piece plus prospects for Lindor?
It would take Hunter Greene. That’s not gonna happen
I think Greene’s prospect since has worn off. just had TJ and had major control issues with his fastball his only decent pitch the year before his surgery
WOW
That’s being a little short sighted imo. Not everyone bounces back from TJ in a year, and you certainly don’t rush a phenom.
Couldn’t agree more!
I’d guess the last thing Cleveland needs is another starter. They would have kept Kluber.
That’s true. Lindor would fill a need for Cincy and I think make them the favorites in the Central (some might say they already are). I’m assuming Cleveland wants MLB-level talent at least included in a Lindor package, though, and Cincy doesn’t seem to have bats on the ML roster to trade.
Jonathan India would be the most likely prospect to move in a deal like that. Recent 1st round pick who can play 2B/3B. Obviously it would take a few more pieces than that. Maybe a stopgap like Galivis + maybe two more prospects or young MLB pieces.
I’d empty the cupboard for Lindor. Greene, Lodolo, India… take em all. Only Santillian would give me pause, but I’d probably trade him too.
Santillian gives you pause? No. Send India, Winker, Galvis, Santillian, Mahle and Siani for Lindor. Resign Puig and Reds not only win the Central, but real chance if doing some damage in the play offs
Lodolo is NOT going anywhere. He is a1/2 guy in the near future.
I’d keep Lodolo out and put Santillan in, which they may like because he’s closer…
Cleveland is not making any trade for just prospects. India’s prospect value has dropped and the Indians top prospect is also a 3B so India is not a draw in a Lindor trade.
True, because even without Kluber, they already have like 3 or 4 quality starting pitchers in their rotation, including this year’s MLB All Star Game MVP, Shane Bieber and Mike Clevinger, who is definitely one of the best pitchers in the game when healthy.
Teams are sleeping here. Never understood why the D-Backs launched him. Agree Eppler misses again.
Good move
Astros dont look so formidable now
the Rotation is
Verlander
Greinke
McCullers
Peacock
Whitley
with the penalties they face, The A’s Rangers and Angels should all have a real chance to stake a claim in the west
Miley was unpitchable down the stretch. I’m willing to bet Houston has better arms in their system. Jose Urquidy certainly showed he was. Don’t think this is a loss.
Unpitchable down the stretch, but showing like an ace for most of the season. Miley is not consistent, but sometimes he can carry a rotation with sneaky good stuff.
urquidy and Jones both have good power arms but they both have wild streaks and little experience, its why I think Forrest Whitley will get first crack at the rotation, there is going to be alot of unneeded pressure on the Astros this season so it wont be the easiest place for a young pitcher this year. not that its not totally deserved for the organization
Astros have enough.
Urquidy is definitely not wild. Haha. Not sure where you got that.
LMAO
I think the Reds will be the most improved team in the NL central. They’ve made some really smart acquisitions. Miley is another. Reds have the potential rotation to really improve their fortunes.
great sign by the Reds!
If the Reds got a legit SS like Lindor or Story, they’d be quite an opponent. Not much depth but if everyone stays healthy they’ll probably contend. You’d love to see Votto bounce back. I like this rotation…
The Reds are not getting LIndor.
Yes. All of that.
Lots of lefthanded hitters in the center he will help the reds.
Miley is a Cy Young contender. I can’t name another starter with a 100 mph fastball and elite breaking balls and a devastating changeup.
Great signing by the Reds. He’s my Cy Young pick
Relax, Benny.
Miley isn’t that guy either
Wait. Miley throws 100 now? Wow
As a lefty starting between two fast throwers and with a great pitching coach, it is a great signing for the price.
Should have signed Boof Bonser
He was so bad in September I would be very cautious about praising this signing
Do the Reds trust Iglesias after 2019? 6 blown saves, inflated ERA…but MAN that 4+ K/BB rate is fire!!
Jays have Giles ready to be traded. Gotta think the Reds missed out on the Kluber splash (hence the Miley signing) so beefing up the back end of the pen via trade might still stack up as a huge team booster. An injection of ready now talent.
Hope Cincy isnt done yet. Good looking squad coming together…
Yeah, we still trust him. For some reason, Bell decided he’d butt heads with Raisel half the year and pissed him off. Then he put Raisel back in the closer’s role and things got better.
We’ve got solid depth in the pen with Amir, Lorenzen and Stephenson and probably Cody Reed another hard throwing lefty coming back.
All Jays fans have heard this offseason is “the Blue Jays checked in on _____”.
Yet zero talk on Ken Giles.
Tells me Giles isn’t going anywhere. Until we start hearing trade buzz we have to assume the Jays are holding him. That would be another bad decision.
Zero talk on Giles because other dominos needed to fall first.
What dominos? There is a bidding war to be had with a need for bullpen arms. Phillies are in on Betances, why aren’t they in on Giles? LA just signed Treinen, why weren’t they in on Giles? There will be more teams filling voids while the Jays remain on the sidelines. The dominos are falling already. It’s almost January. There’s zero talk because the Jays aren’t engaging in talks.
They might, but as a fan I certainly don’t…
White Sox running out of available pitchers.
Cubs running out of available pitchers as well. Maybe one Gets ryu and the other keuchel ?
Braves top three ain’t bad….
Dumb Dick strikes again. We didn’t need a 3B, yet we over pay for one (a guy that plays a total of 45 games at 2B of a 1000 game career isn’t a 2B). We don’t need a 5th starter, yet we over pay for one. We do need a SS and we let a really good one (swing is perfect for GABP) slip way. I’m sure Osuna (look at his numbers versus Puig and the money difference they sign for this year) will be his other signing and that will seal him as having the worst off season in baseball. After he destroyed the minor league system last year, he is bankrupting the major league team this year. You have to love a sore Dick!!
Someone call this man a cab,
Every baseball expert said the Reds moves last year other than Gray were horrible and the end results to another losing year showed they were right. Those same experts said the Moose signing was a huge over pay and at the end of another losing season next year those experts will be right again. I’m a Reds fan and I long ago took off the rose colored glasses. Either you know baseball or you don’t and my knowledge is backed up by the Reds poor performance and a minor league that was top ten and is now bottom ten.
And as far as a number 5 goes they can run 3 or 4 people out there next year that will make $1 million instead of $7.5 million that will be just as good. Again history proves that year in and year out. The Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers are the only teams that pay a 5th starter $7,5 million a year. Ask the Yankees how well JA Happ or the Red Sox how Eovaldi worked out as number 5 this year. A number 5 starter isn’t where a small market team spends its money.
Spending money is a great thing, if you have leadership that knows how to spend it the right way, Dumb Dick is lost!!!!
This is a depth signing and being a lefty helps.
Every? Put a link to one article that said they made bad trades. Make sure it’s before opening day.
Go ahead, I’m waiting…
FIrst off, the Reds were 7-18 in games Mahle started last year and 2-5 in games Wood started. They were the fifth starters. That’s 9-23. Let’s say Miley has a decent year and in 32 starts, the Reds go 18-14. Th’at’s a nine game improvement. You wouldn’t pay $7M for that? I would. Now the Reds are up to 84-80. Now let’s say Bell uses Iggy right (which is to say, ONLY pitch him in the 9th inning with a lead) and his 3-12 becomes 8-7. Now you’re up to 89 wins. Think Moose might add a couple of wins vs. Peraza? Yeah — now you’re a playoff team..
Every expert last year called the a Dodgers trade with the Reds a bad trade. The end results on the field proved it, keep waiting, if you didn’t see that crap this year your aunt Nancy needs your vote in Congress
84-80? MLB has a 164 game schedule?
Could be if there is a three way tie for the division? ; )
Or heck, it could even be 165 games if there is a 3 to 4 way tie for a wildcard spot.
I could only get to the part where he said the Reds didn’t need a 5th starter
Someone needs a wake up call
The Reds will not make the playoffs next year.
They should, but I think they underperformed last year too. That offense should have been better again. I think they have enough talent on that roster now to make the playoffs, but it’s hard to say they’ll actually do it until they do.
Long offseason my man. Any team can have a dream this time of year.
Obviously 22leo didn’t c how many one run games the Reds lost last year, with a stronger lineup they should contend, Votto will be stronger, I don’t think the Reds a done signing players yet we are still in December
The Reds are looking good! Add Shogo to the outfield and I think were set for 2020.
I like that idea, he’s an OBP machine!
Miley really doesnt move the needle. Avg at best back end of the rotation pitcher starter.
2018: 159 ERA+
2019: 116 ERA+
That’s 59% above average and 16% above average the last two years. So I’d say average at best is just a bit outside.
4.51 flip last year, league avg 4.50. Now a year older, not saying he sucks, though he has at lengths of his career. I am saying not a needle mover.
The orioles have been notoriously Bad with arms but Miley was god awful the last time he was in a launching pad like GABP. Was not a good pitcher in OPACY. Melted like a popsicle down the stretch last year too. I don’t know if this was the best use of the Reds’ cash.
Maybe they think Mahle’s stuff will play up better in the pen. The Reds have done that with all the other failed starters they had. Lorenzen, Stephenson, Garrett etc. I don’t really see much of a difference between him and Miley moving forward. Except Miley is a lefty. But we’ll see.
jbigz12…I wouldn’t refer to Garrett as a failed starter. In fact I think they did him a disservice by shoving him to the pen, even though he’s been dominant there, I’ve always thought they should have kept him stretched out for the rotation. Electric stuff in that arm…
He was a pretty horrendous starter in year 1. He’s not even a consistent strike thrower out of the pen. The stuff may be electric but you need a little more than that to be a starting pitcher. He’s a failed starter today. Lorenzen didn’t get a real long look in the rotation either for that matter. But cincy put them there.
FIP is still a junk stat imo. Look at Betances. His FIP last year was -2.79. Any stat that says you should give up negative runs needs more development.
Anyone who uses .2 innings to try to disprove a statistic validity is an idiot.
The last time he was in a launching pad like GABP was in 2017 with the Brewers (Miller is a more hitter-friendly park than GA), and he was excellent. He also had a good year last year at Minute Maid, which is also a hitter’s park (not quite to the extent GA is).
LOL, as a Mariners fan, enjoy! Hope he shows up for your team.
You guys didn’t even see the worst of it. Orioles fan here. Best of luck with Wade.
7.5 million a season on average is solid for two years. With Miley though, who really knows what you’re going to get. Reds could have went with someone much cheaper.. Always seems like a coin toss with Miley every season.
Miley, Mahle. Tomato Tomaato.
LOL. My thought exactly, but the depth doesn’t hurt, especially with the injury history of Disco.
Should fit in nicely as a back-end of the rotation pitcher. I am a Yankees fan but always have a soft spot for teams like the Brewers and Reds.
Reds are gonna win the Central. I’m not being sarcastic either
Reds liked him as a 5th starter because he is left handed, the only in their rotation in a division with a lot of lefty heavy lineups (He’s what Wood was supposed to be last year). Bridges the gap for Lodolo who could crack the bigs towards the end of the year with a good showing at AA. Saved $$ by not chasing the other big names with seemingly more payroll to chase other free agents. He also played for winning teams the past few years and thrived under Johnson with the Brewers. A lot to like in my opinion.
Good take here. Plus goetta is freakin delicious ! yum yum. Lodolo is going to be a stud. Cole Hamels type arm.
Crazy how much people here are overrating the reds rotation based on a Wade Miley signing. I don’t really think he will do even remotely well in that little league park.
it’s because of the other 4 .. not Miley..
Miley makes a pretty good #5 starter though
Wade Miley is their #5 at best. They’re not overrating the Reds rotation.
As of Dec. 17th, best rotations in NL Central:
1. Reds
2. Cardinals but Pirates very close
3. Pirates
4. Cubs
5. Brewers
This i also how I feel the division would finish IF the season started today. However, I don’t think the Cubs will wait too much longer to make a move. If Bumgarner could have been had for 5 yrs, 85M, then Ryu can be had for that or less, which they can afford once they move Bryant. Darvish, Ryu, Hendricks, Lester, Quintana looks very competitive. Of course if they don’t get Ryu, then the Bryant trade most likely brings back someone like Fried from the Braves which isn’t going to help as much.
Reds are gonna win the NL Central this year. And please Reds fans, trash all that talk about trading Nick Senzel. The guy just might win the NL batting title this year. He is that good a hitter.
Cubs, Cards and Brewers will be making a big mistake if they think the NL Central crown remains the sole purview for the three of them.
Unknown for the ’20 Reds is what to expect from Joey Votto. He’s getting long in the tooth. Votto doesn’t have to be an all-star again. Just give me a BA of .290+, 20 bombs, 80-90 RBIs and his usual off-the-charts great OBP.
He hit pretty well toward the end of last year, after he stopped with the stupid choking up on the bat. He needs to stop unscrewing every AB…See da ball, hit da ball…
I’m okay with Miley. It shores up the rotation without breaking the bank on the Big Arm Sweepstakes and frees up money to add more. That said, I’ll feel a lot better if they sign another bat or two.
Galvis may turn out to be a revelation, but I’m not holding my breath. I would love to see them come up with a trade deal to get Lindor out of Cleveland or sign Trevor Story. I really wanted Gregorius.
I’d like to see Cincy sign Shogo, but my guess is that they will get one of Castellanos/Ozuna. I was thinking they might make a run at Garcia before Milwaukee signed him.
They’d have to make a big trade to get Story, he’s not a FA. If he were, he would have been off the market before Didi. I like the idea though, in fact I mentioned they should go get him a month ago…good call!
If Reds sign Castellanos, he’ll hit 50+ HR playing half his games in that home park. FWIW, I like him better than Ozuna.
Don’t follow the game much, eh Stan?
Really good FO move with Miley – much needed 4/5 type lefty SP. Mahle gets to continue building toward a spot, which opens in 2021. DJ gets a small reclamation project in Miley with whom he has succeeded n the past.
Senzel is going back to his old stance and approach. So he should get off to a good start. New hitting coaches, instructors and program going into place org wide will help. Nick is a hard worker and winner. Want to see SS shored up along with another bat in the OF.
The Miley signing is solid: you can never have enough pitching depth. As for the offense, please DO NOT sign Castellanos, Ozuna, or Dickerson. None are RFrs, and two of them might not be considered OFrs. None of them should start in front of Winker or Senzel. The real need is another RFr in case Aquino turns out to be a flash in the pan. Sign Gold Glover Kole Calhoun, who is an average-ish hitter with some decent pop. He’s a lefty who you could platoon with the righty Aquino. If you fail to sign Calhoun, try to bring Puig back to the Queen City. He had meh results in his short time in Cincy, but was a solid teammate and hustled his butt off.
I like this thought. It’s hard to see how the other outfield options could improve on a Winker/Ervin platoon in LF, with Senzel in CF and Aquino in RF. It would be a young OF, but with some upside. A veteran like Calhoun would provide some stability.
The M&M boys are a toss up. Both can have a good day, but could be just as bad as good. Disco needs to stay healthy and continue his improvement, but then he may have health issues or have a fall back in performances. Bauer needs to pitch like contract year, not like last year. And Catillo needs to pitch up to his ability, though he showed a couple cracks late last season. Then Votto needs to pick up instead of continuing the decline and somebody needs to hit over 300. So if things go good Reds can be really be good and if things go wrong will probably battle for last place. Any other additions may help elevate their standings. Of course health and injuries and off years can alter any season. Like the saying goes, that why they play the game.
Miley is tough to figure. He had some solid moments here and there, but late last season he was not even worth having on a roster, his performance wasn’t just subpar it was absolutely hideous, so bad he failed to make the post season roster over Jose Urquidy, who actually proved to be quite capable . Was that an aberration or did he turn into a pumpkin? Put it this way, if I am Cincy I am still trying to develop Tyler Mahle just in case Miley shows up tossing batting practice again next year.
Never seen a team throw around so much money just so they can finish .500 instead of 10 games under.
The Reds won 75 games, had the most 1 run losses in baseball, had a better run differential for most of the year than their record would indicate, and have added some decent pieces so far this off-season (and aren’t finished). I guarantee you they win more than 7 extra games next season.
The Reds have improved their team. Can the Cardinals, Cubs, Brewers, and Pirates say the same thing? Thanks for worrying about the reds budget though …
When he toad the rubber there were warts.
Reds are looking better and better in a wide open NL Central.
Yet another guy who could have helped the deplorable back end of the White Sox rotation and they just passed. He’s not going to change the team like Ryu or even Keuchel would, but the Sox threw out Despaigne several times last year. And he might not have even been their worst guy! Why the *bleep* isn’t Rick Hahn doing anything?
At this stage in the off-season, it appears any real impact SP the White Sox add would likely come via trade. I don’t see them adding a Boras guy (see Ryu & the declining Keuchel). I see them targeting 2 of: Alex Wood, Gio Gonzalez (Don Cooper loves him), Julio Teheran & Ivan Nova.
I’d be good with Gio. Have my doubts on Wood and Teheran. Just no on Nova. Saw enough of him last year. Decent stuff when he’s on, but so ridiculously inconsistent. That would be fine for a young guy like Lopez or Cease, but not for a veteran.
One thing to add about Trevor Bauer is that he is in a contract year and has said he will only sign 1 year contracts throughout his career. I would argue that no one is banking more on themselves than he is this year. Tons of pressure on him to perform (for better or worse).
Im actually starting to like Cincy, especially after last season where they showed that they are a bunch of fiery scrappers who aren’t afraid to be themselves. I wouldnt say im a fan of them by any stretch but i wouldnt mind them winning some ballgames not one bit. Theyre fun to watch
So many things have to go right for Reds to win division and beyond. Votto has to hit better, not great just better. Hope Aquino turns out to be a full time player. 50 home runs possible if so. Everyone stays relatively healthy. Starters have to pitch to their potential, does not have to be career year but just don’t regress. Reds still yet to sign an outfielder (Corey Dickerson hopefully) and a plus bullpen guy we can count on to close in case Inglesias has another poor year.
Reds must not have seen him pitch in September. 16.68 ERA, WHIP over 3. Yuck