Third baseman Josh Donaldson, the No. 1 free agent left on the board, continues to contemplate his future. The Nationals, Twins, Dodgers and Braves (with whom he thrived in 2019) look like the front-runners for his services. All things being equal, though, it appears Donaldson would prefer to stay in Atlanta. The “belief” is Donaldson’s camp has promised the Braves he’ll let them make a final offer before he signs anywhere else, David O’Brien of The Athletic reports (subscription link). The problem, as O’Brien notes, is that the Braves may not want to give Donaldson, 34, four guaranteed years. Meanwhile, Washington and Minnesota are reportedly open to doing so.
More from the National League…
- The Cubs’ Kris Bryant could be a trade target for Atlanta if it doesn’t re-sign Donaldson, though it’s still unclear how much more team control the former has left. Bryant filed a grievance over service time against the Cubs, whose decision to delay the now-star’s promotion in 2015 earned them an extra year of control. That grievance was heard back in October, and briefs were due Friday, but arbitrator Mark Irvings’ ruling won’t arrive until sometime after Jan. 1, Evan Drellich of The Athletic tweets. For now, Bryant’s under control for two more years, but that figure will drop to one if he unexpectedly wins his grievance. The 27-year-old has been featured in trade rumors, but at least until the league knows how much more control Bryant has, it’s highly unlikely he’ll go anywhere.
- Rookie Pirates manager Derek Shelton has chosen Tarrik Brock as his first base coach, according to Jason Mackey of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. This will be the second go-around as a major league 1B coach for Brock, who worked in that role for the Padres in 2016. He went on to serve as the Dodgers’ minor league outfield and baserunning coordinator from 2017-19. Now 45, Brock’s a former outfielder who saw brief MLB action in 2000 with the Cubs.
- The Reds hired Joe Mather as assistant hitting coach earlier this week, per C. Trent Rosecrans of The Athletic. The 37-year-old Mather – who, like Brock, is an ex-outfielder – spent last season as the Diamondbacks’ minor league field and hitting coordinator. He’ll now work alongside new Reds hitting coach Alan Zinter.
Still think the Pirates can see what the Brewers would give them for Moran?
maybe?
Idk if the Pirates would be willing to deal Moran right now. Yes his power numbers went up, but his OBP went down and his already below average defense got worse. Unless someone offers them something really good, I don’t see them dealing Moran. Maybe at the deadline though.
Yes but a cheap 3B maybe nets something interesting?
When did this story become about Moran and the Brewers!!??
Cmon now you know there is 30 FO that read these posts to get ideas from the smart fans, just like I think who ever signs Matt Duffy to play third this year will be the one team who benefit from it cause if the Brewers were to sign him he will play the whole year hit .280 with 32 homeruns and 94 rbis
It would be a good fit if the Pirates traded Moran & Clay Holmes or Kyle Crick to the Brewers for OF Tyrone Taylor & C Payton Henry. Taylor is the Brewers 6th OFer & Henry is their 2nd catcher in the farm. On the Pirates Taylor would be a 4th OFer unless Marte iis traded while Henry would be our only depth catcher in the farm. The Brewers could platoon Moran at 3rd w/ Healy and hope they can turn Holmes or Crick into another Lyles reclamation.
If JD simply wanted “the highest & longest offer” I think he would have already signed with the team who matched those criterias(probably the Nats or the Twins)
But I think(or hope) the reason why he’s still deciding so far is because he’s giving the Braves chance to counter-offer on other offers and actually would give them any kind of home discount if Braves’ offer was not out of the range he’s seeking for.
I think his heart has ATL, may still end up with D.C. but he knows what it’ll be like switching to the division rival after the years he had in 2018/2019. Braves & AA gave him a chance to resurrect himself with the respect, so it won’t be that simple for him to take the highest offer as long as the Braves are concerned.
Really hope he’s returning to the Braves, (He could be another Beltre-ish healthy when he’s 37) if that’s not the case, Oh Twins Go Go after him hard plz.
Many funny things in this, not sure where to start
Me Talk Pretty One Day
Agreed. Josh and Alex go way back. I’m curious to see what his level of respect has to do with all of this money being thrown at him.
Level of respect? So JD should leave an additional year and $20-$25m guaranteed dollars on the table out of respect? Because JD played for the Blue Jays after AA traded for him?
Respect is a two way street. Perhaps the Braves should show “respect” and pony up for the 4th year or just wish him well but to expect such a huge discount is disrespectful to JD …. and since he goes way back with AA as you say … it is even more of a slap in the face of JD to make it like he is not showing respect
I think he meant respect in that AA overpaid for him greatly last year per reports. He did that out of respect for JD and because the Braves had extra cash last year.
To that end, the respect he means is the Braves giving him money that no one else would and he might be wanting to pay them back by giving them every opportunity. I do not think JD is taking the Braves not offering a fourth year as disrespectful at all or he would NOT be giving them ‘last offer rights’. AA showed the respect already, and JD is reciprocating. Enough said.
Sorry others chose to be rude. The comment area has gone to the dogs.
Opening post is thoughtful. A couple replies are stupid
4 yrs for a 34 yr old is risky and the reason I say this is Josh plays all out — high speed no drag — as we Met fans know with Cano and Cespedes these players have to learn they arent 21 anymore
Sometimes you gotta take risks and in this instance, it’s worth it. They took the risk last year and now he’s established on the team and in the city, just get it done again AA. Braves country needs a WS again and JD fills 2 major holes right now and going forward.
Cespedas got hurt on his ranch getting off his horse & Cano wouldn’t know what hustle meant if the dictionary was open on the page right in front of his face. Bad examples.
JD plays hard. If he really wants to play for the Braves take a 3 yrs with a 4th year option. AA took a huge risk last year when a lot of other teams weren’t willing to go that high coming off that injured year.
If he is that confident in himself it shouldn’t matter how that 4th year comes.
Let me clarify on the option though. It’s gotta be an easily attainable option with a high buyout. I would be absolutely ok with some sort of contract like that.
JD’s first preference is to go back to Atlanta & the Cubs 1st preference is to make a deal with Atlanta.
That makes me feel better about our 3rd base situation. The kris Bryant grievance is what’s holding everything up. AA’s offer is on the table If the Bryant situation had clarity he woulda probably stepped away from JD by now. AA moves fast no time for games.
If it’s 2 yrs on the Bryant outcome it will be Riley & Wilson with a lower rated SP prospect thrown in there for Bryant. Someone in the 10-15 organizational rankings. Could see someone coming back with Bryant and Ender thrown into the deal too.
Hahaha. Atlanta is giving up its top two prospects plus… for Bryant. He’s going nowhere….
Riley and Wilson are not the Braves two top prospects. More like six and seven (though Riley is no longer on prospect lists). And remember, this is six and seven from one of the deepest organizations at the moment.
I believe the Braves would be willing to do that, but only for two years.
JD is 34 so when you play hard your gonna get hurt more as age goes forward — 2 yrs will be ok the 2nd 2 wont — his salary will hurt the Braves in the last 2 yrs — as for Cespedes he was hurt for other reasons also plus he is older than his stated age — that is why he was traded 3 times – Cano played hard not like JD — but I do like your comment to the dicionary about Cano Lol very good
Mets fans will sleep better if the names Cespedes and Cano are banished from their lips.
And why are a lot of you hell bent on trading Nimmo? He should be your lead-off hitter for the next ten years unless you guys hate an OBP figure of .400.
2 reasons why a 4 yr deal is risky for Braves. (1.) Productivity may decline and Braves would be stuck with a big contract in yrs 3 and 4.. (2) Austin Riley could develop into the 3bman of the future in another year or 2. He would be cheap and young. Riley has the power but needs to develop better pitch recognition.
Teams should be trading for Miguel Andujar from the Yankees. Younger, cheaper, and under team control fir years. Atlanta gives up two top pitching prospects and it’s a done deal. Atlanta would be way better off with this scenario.
Younger, and cheaper, but a risk given his Tommy John surgery and lack of defensive value that could eventually force him moved to another position.
Not TJS! Partially torn labrum in his shoulder. He could have actually played in August and September but the FO decided to let him heal more after the injury. According to all accounts on him, he’s been working out and doing all things baseball, looking stronger than ever.
If you think a torn labrum is minor, you have no clue. Worst possible injury for a throwing athlete and it’s not even close.
-2.2 dWAR in 2018…yeah, his future is not in the NL and definitely not worth 2 top prospects. Hard Pass.
Where are you looking? Fangraphs had him at 2.8 in 2018.
Baseball ref. He had a -2.2 dwar with a 2.2 war.
In other words he is saying that Andujar stinks at defense and there is little demand for him on a NL team until the DH is adopted (unless you play him at firstbase, which isn’t happening with Freeman in the Braves.)
bigwestbaseball Why would the WS contender Yankees trade a young cheap and under team control MLB ready player for prospects? Andujar is far from perfect but he’s already shown real potential at the MLB level, at least with the bat. Yeah there’s no obvious spot for him yet but injuries or a potential Urshela flop could change that fast. Yankees gain nothing from dealing him for prospects.
And almost no chance an NL team targets him until he proves he’s made real progress defensively. A NL team can’t hide him at DH at all.
That a ridiculous proposal bigwest. AA would laugh then tell Cashman to pound sand!
agree Bryant will be a haul for any team same as Lindor or Nolan with the Rockies
Andujar might not even be an upgrade over Riley, so why would the Braves do that? It’s hard to judge by numbers so early in their careers, but Riley was as good at similar stops an Andujar and one year younger at each stop (23 v 22 at A ball for instance). Yes, Andujar had a huge year in 2018, but if you go by one year breakouts then Camargo’s 2018 deserves another chance, especially as a platoon with Riley. Not to mention those two can both play other spots.
I am not trying to say Riley and/or Camargo are better, but the Braves are simply not going to give up a couple of prospects for what is currently no better than a slight upgrade over what they have. That being said, if they are thinking of moving Riley to the OF, I would not mind them going after Andujar at all, but I doubt the Yankees move him until they see if his value comes back up a little.
I get the Nats just won the WS and still want to remain competitive, but them targeting Donaldson has never made sense to me, why not go after a younger/cheaper option to replace Rendon?? I mean, Shaw seems like the logical candidate. With the leftover money, Rizzo could then bring back Hudson and another high leverage reliever like Betances or Cishek.
Maybe I’m just a biased Twins fan, but other than returning to Atlanta, Donaldson as a Minnesota Twin makes much more sense than him signing with D.C.
No that’s actually a pretty good idea. The question is whether Shaw rebounds nicely or he tries to hard like he did last year and makes it worse. But hopefully it works out for him. He had a lot on his table last year with a very sick child. Not that he made that excuse because he would never do that but it would affect any good father
The first part of your first sentence answers your question.
Can Kieboom play third?
Because if they sign donaldson they are establishing themselves as the division favorites instead of their main rival. They’re definitely playing it smart and at least making it harder and much more expensive on the Braves, that’s for sure.
What is taking so long with Bryant’s grievance? I read somewhere where Epstein was sure it would be done before Christmas. You would think that they would have tried to expedite this, now it won’t happen until next year. I could understand filing if he wasn’t already getting paid, but this was just greed on both owner and player.
Nothing to do with greed on the player. The situation is being manipulated by the owners which is in their right to do so according to the CBA and Bryant is filing the grievance to see if that loophole could be closed before the next CBA. I heard that Bryant even expects to lose his grievance. But I believe the MLBPA is using Bryant as the example to see if that loophole could be closed and let the owners know in the next CBA they will be fighting hard to restructure that part of it.
Who cares about a loophole? Just cut a couple of years off the control and give up arbitration and raise the minimum salary to at least two million.
Yeah they’ll have to strike for that because the owners are a greedy mafia.
Cut off a couple years until free agency you will see guys greeting extensions faster & faster
That’s not a bad idea ForestCobraAL I’m not sure owners would go for it tho… I think if youlet the clock start when they are added to the 40man instead of when they are brought up the owners might be more ok with that.
If you start the clock when players hit the 40-man, then the teams will be more likely to bring up the youngsters and cut the vets. Players will make less and less rather than more and more.
“Yeah they’ll have to strike for that because the owners are a greedy mafia.”
We’re long overdue for a strike in MLB. The players have lost everything – free agency is but a rumor for most – and every CBA they lose more because they refuse to strike.
The players need to bring back Don Fehr.
Marvin Miller.
The players have defecated all over the legacy and work of Marvin Miller.
We’re long overdue for a strike in MLB. The players have lost everything
———————————————————–
The players are absolutely killing it this off-season. And it is not just the big guys. Perez, with a 5.49 over the past two seasons, still gets $6M+.
At this rate, it is the owners who will go on strike.
The owners always play this game. The players have been played for the past 20 plus years.
Demand four years of service time instead of seven and four million per year minimum salary.
Go on strike. Be willing to compromise at five years and two million if the owners give in to save that season. If not then stay out until they agree to the original demand of four and four
MLB owners can’t outsource MLB to Mexico and China. .
The owners have the advantage. They don’t need baseball. If there’s a strike, they’ll get tax write-offs. Players don’t have much going except baseball.
Yeah, again you prove you’re a special kind of stupid.
Link?
Zelda?
Not sure about that. Prospects will definitely be promoted quicker but that’s is a disadvantage to rebuilding teams so it will encourage teams to go for it which will cause teams to value proven players
FORESTsnake? Calling others names? Safe behind such a teenage moniker. Taking umbrage because they do not agree with you?
You need ice sheets.
Could be you’re right. I think the law of unintended consequences will have a profound effect if the rules are changed, and I expect the owners to adapt more quickly than the players, and they will more ably exploit the new loopholes that are created.
Need to give ATL the advantage to at least come thru w a close offer $ wise on a 3 yr. JD’s very comfortable and has family in a good town. If Braves r close he stays imo
Atlanta is a cesspool — rude ppl — cheap tippers — now outside of the city in the burbs ppl are alot nicer — but considering the $$$$ he would get he would be in a gated place safe for his family and yes wouldnt have to uproot them
You sound like someone who’s had limited dealings with people in metro Atlanta.
Come to NYC. We’ll show you a good time, especially in the Bronx.
You are an idiot to say you know about an entire people of a huge city. It makes you sound petty and uninformed.
He mentioned cheap tippers. I’m guessing he’s a surly failure of a waiter who can’t get a job at a nice restaurant.
Like I said before: rules are rules! Their is no exception in the rule that states well Bryant should have obviously been promoted! I’d be shocked if he won his grievance…..
I agree. If there is any argument about how it was handled it will be settled with the new player / owners agreement. If bryant wins then every player will have a grievance.
Not every player. Only the ones owners held back in the minors to get an extra year.
Why is it taking so long to decide Bryant’s grievance? It should not have taken more than a few days and it been over two months.
There is no way that the league will be forced to let agents and arbitrators decide who gets be on the 25 man roster.
Give him 3/25 guaranteed and a 4/25 option/auto pick up with 550PA’s, 30HR’s, or 100 RBI’s in year 3. Let him decide how bad he want to stay in ATL and if he is willing to risk earning that 4th year instead of becoming a team financial hardship.
Agreed if he really wants to play for the Braves gamble on himself like AA gambled on him last year.
Agree as well, but maybe make it a three year average kicker on the option. Like average 500 PA’s per year or some other number at a slightly lower amount than a one year ticker. That should suit the club and JD better, as it offsets a third year injury in JD’s favor, or earlier year injuries in the Braves favor. I am not certain if averages are even allowed.
If JD really believes in himself, then make the fourth year dual option with the incentive clause above being an auto kick-in for the Braves. He could give the Braves an auto-out as well.
Cubs should sign Cesar Hernandez to play 2B. Good player with the Phillies. Atop that Cub line up Cesar might score 150 runs.
Money can’t be that big of an issue with Cesar. I’m guessing two years @ $8 million per year ought to get in done.
I truly don’t think the Nats want Donaldson that bad. I think they are in this more to drive bidding up before getting him. And yes I know they have a need, but I’ll tell you this…. they get him and the braves don’t…. I will lose my mind
I’m confused as to what’s taking the Nationals so long to announce Donaldson’s signing.
Probably because Donaldson isn’t signing with them.
From one Braves fan to another, I agree. I’m already sick that Washington won the WS, so if they take our 3rd baseman too…
The Braves had the money for Rendon.
The Braves have the prospects for Bryant and they have the money to sign Bryant whenever their bloodsucking owner Greg Maffei gives the OK.
John C. Malone wants a little credit.
I think you are correct. I think the Nats know that the Braves simply have to get JD or Bryant. If it’s JD, then Atlanta has to pay more than they want or should, just to prevent him from going to Washington. In essence, you are getting a player worth much more just because you are preventing one of your competitors from getting him.
If he averages only 5.0 WAR over the life of the contract instead of the Braves getting a 1.0 WAR guy, while the NAts get a 1.0 WAR guy instead of the 5.0 JD, then in essence the Braves are paying for an 8 WAR average (+4 on their side, and -4 for the Nats over the respective alternatives). When you are preventing one of your closest competitors from getting that player, you have to factor that in. Of course, if the player ends up stinking, then you just hurt yourself in the opposite fashion, which can be totally destructive (just ask Hawks fans about Jon Contract),
what is the deal with Braves and not going over 3 years?! Wouldn’t go over 3 for MadBum, wouldn’t go over 3 for Wheeler…won’t go over 3 for Ryu or Donaldson, etc. etc etc….Why is that the organizational number smh?
I think the Braves’ actuaries have determined three years to be the optimal risk/reward scenario. It’s smart economics.
Greg Maffei
Every facet of the Braves organization is performing at a high level except one.
Greg Maffei
I’m guessing Maffei doesn’t concern himself too much with the Braves payroll. He leaves that to others. Unless you have evidence to the contrary…
You’re a special kind of stupid.
So, no evidence. Thanks.
“This is the third in a series of five articles, covering the top five highest paid CEOs in the U.S. Number three on the list is Gregory Maffei, CEO of Liberty Media Corp. (NASDAQ:FWONA), who made $391 million in fiscal 2012,”
Here’s how Google works: You copy and paste what I quoted into your browser URL space and hit “enter”.
Now, that wasn’t so hard, was it?
My guess on this one is purely age. I don’t remember any stories about them being in on Wheeler and with Bumgarner I can understand, with the trend. This organization has never really handed out large volume contract years, Chipper’s 6 year deal is the longest I can think of but I’m sure there’s probably others in there. It just doesn’t happen often with the team.
I get age for a lot of these players creating a 3 year cap on offers…but they checked in on Wheeler and wouldn’t go over 3 which kinda throws the age argument out the window. 3 years is a good ‘risk/reward’ window but it seems the greater failure is not signing anyone of significance…year after year after year.
Donaldson and Keuchel were significant last year. Hamels, Smith and D’Arnaud are this year. None of them are superstars, but they are significant.
I get all that…just will always be shopping in the 3rd tier option aisle forever by putting such a hard cap on years. A lot of these other teams sign longer contractors with the understanding you might be signing up for 2 bad years to get 4 good years out of a player. Risk AND Reward, Braves organization and all us Braves fans want our cake and eat it too, it just doesn’t work that way with guaranteed contracts in mlb
The Braves embarrassing first round exits are significant too. The exits happen because the Braves lack the core talent power to advance.
N.L. East Pythagorean W-L Standings:
Nationals 95-67, 873 Runs, 724 Runs Allowed
Braves 91-71, 855 Runs, 743 Runs Allowed
Mets 86-76, 791 Runs, 737 Runs Allowed
Phillies 79-83, 774 Runs, 794 Runs Allowed
I wouldn’t go over 3 years for Donaldson either.
IRT Wheeler and Madbum, they signed for 5, so 3 is not even in play.
MLB does allow the Atlanta Braves to give out 5 year contracts…its always in play they just choose not to
The delay judgement for Bryant’s grievance over service time against the Cubs. It sure is great excuse and cover this year for inactivity and mishandling of money the last two years hey Theo!
I think Braves are holding open the possibility that Austin Riley becomes their long-term 3bman so they are hesitant to give out a 4 yr contract for Donaldson. Riley has the power. He needs better pitch recognition. He is also very young. So I think AA is looking for a (somewhat) expensive bridge to hopefully Riley.
Austin has also shown that he’s capable in the outfield, so he could play there, even with Josh on the team. If/when Josh breaks down, Austin could move to 3B.
If Riley cuts down on the strikeouts and retains his power, he will be starting in LF if Donaldson is signed. But LF is not a long-term position for Riley (most likely) with Waters and Pache on the horizon. So it boils down to how many yrs they want to sign Donaldson. 4 yrs disrupts the projection of Riley and Waters in particular in the starting lineup. They could trade Waters/Pache or Riley and sign Donaldson to 4 yrs, I suppose. And this calculation is AA’s calculation, IMO.
Don’t worry about any disruption, make the young guy prove themselves and if they do; disruption is a great problem to have. This leads to guys being worth more as trade chips and the roster being that much more competitive. Signing JD takes pressure off the young guys while they develop and let’s you keep your core from the farm for insurance at the same time, it JUST MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE!
You must worry about it. You cannot sit on these players forever. If Donaldson blocks younger/better/cheaper players it impacts the team as a whole. In year 4, when Pache, Waters, and Acuna are in the OF together and Riley has shown he is now as good or better than Donaldson at say $10m arb number instead of $25m, you NEED to have that money available to plug a bigger need. Financial flexibility for the vast majority of baseball teams is utterly paramount.
I wish the Braves would go after Arenado. Offer them Drew Waters, Kyle Wright, Bryce Wilson and another Top10-15 prospect from the organization. Would that get it done?
Arenado is a great player, but his road splits concern me, as well as that uber-long and uber-rich contract. Also, there’s a chance you trade a ton of prospects and he exercises his opt-out after 2021.
Didn’t realize he had an opt out. That definitely hurts his value then.
There’s a great website with details about player/team contracts/payrolls. It’s managed by Baseball Prospectus. Google “Cot’s Contracts”.
There is something horrendously wrong with the grievance process if a dispute arising in April 2015 can’t be decided before 2020.
FYI Acuna 8yr/100 mm , Albies 7yr extension 35mm. So much for no contracts over 3 yrs. I agree JD bridges Riley ergo 3 yrs.
Three years is more of a guideline, and it would apply more to players in their thirties than players in their early twenties. Besides, those contracts are so cheap that the money committed is pretty close to what their open-market value would be for three years.
Seeing Freeman would be a possible free agent next year ( we know he wants to stay ) the money on JD plus Freddie is a big amount, especially added with everyone else on the payroll. This could be making a deal with JD more difficult.
I think the Braves sign JD for the 4 years with the understanding that they may only get 2 or 3 good years out of the deal. Factored in should be covering a good bit of his salary when he needs to be traded to an American League dh club after those 2 or 3 years. It is also possible (the Horror!) that the NL may have the dreaded dh by then as well and enable him to complete the full 4 years at a productive level. Either way, just do the deal! He’s worth it
The Braves currently have no albatross contracts, so I guess they could handle one. This might be the time for it. Melancon and Hamels will be off the books next year, as well as Tyler, Nick and Shane.