This has already been a winter of major change for the Indians. A couple months removed from their first non-playoff season since 2015, the Indians traded two-time American League Cy Young-winning right-hander Corey Kluber to the Rangers last weekend for reliever Emmanuel Clase and outfielder Delino DeShields. Cleveland did pick up at least one intriguing piece in the 21-year-old, heat-throwing Clase, though it was also a cost-cutting move for the small-market club to get all of Kluber’s $17.5MM guarantee for 2020 off the books.
To the Indians’ credit, they did win 93 games in 2019 with little to no help from Kluber, who slumped through an uncharacteristically poor month before succumbing to a season-ending broken forearm May 1. So, maybe getting rid of Kluber in favor of a Shane Bieber–Mike Clevinger–Carlos Carrasco–Aaron Civale–Zach Plesac rotation won’t have a deleterious effect their fortunes. Maybe they remain well-equipped to compete next year in the AL Central, which has multiple bottom-feeding teams and has seen its reigning champion (Minnesota) make no clear improvements since the offseason got underway. Or maybe the Kluber trade was the first monumental deal the Indians will make in an effort to cut money and look toward the future.
For Cleveland, there’s no bigger decision than whether to trade four-time All-Star shortstop Francisco Lindor, who has popped up in many rumors over the past few months. Lindor’s one of the finest players in the game – no doubt the Indians’ best – but it seems inevitable they’ll trade him in the next couple years. A free agent a pair of offseasons from now, Lindor’s projected to earn $16.7MM in arbitration for 2020. That’s unquestionably a reasonable sum for what he brings to the table and an amount all teams (including the Indians) should be able to afford, but perhaps they’ll sell Lindor off now before his control continues to dwindle. It’s at least under consideration, as they’ve reportedly asked interested teams (the Dodgers, Padres and Reds are among them) for their best and last offers heading into the weekend.
Other than Lindor, the Indians have at least one other extremely valuable trade chip in Clevinger. Set to turn 29 on Saturday, the righty has been one of baseball’s most effective starters since his 2017 breakout. Clevinger still has three years of control left (and should make less than $5MM next season), so he looks like someone the Indians should keep if the goal is to push for a World Series in the near term. However, there’s said to be plenty of trade interest in Clevinger, meaning it’s possible we’ve seen the last of him in an Indians uniform if another team bowls them over with a proposal that’s too enticing to decline. The Indians, for their part, have understandably placed a “crazy high” asking price on Clevinger, per reporter Robert Murray.
While we don’t know exactly what teams have offered (or will offer) for Lindor and Clevinger, it’s fair to say both players are capable of bringing back a haul in a trade. Therefore, it’s reasonable to wonder what the Indians should do with the two of them going forward. Should they retain one or both and try to return to the playoffs next season, or is it time for the franchise to sell high?
(Poll link for app users)
Unless the Indians are gonna spend big to fill their remaining needs to compete with the power houses of the AL, they might as well trade Lindor because they are highly unlikely to win a WS before he leaves in free agency. Stock still really high. If they hold onto him his value only goes down as teams will have him for less time.
Interesting opinion. I don’t agree his stock will “only“ go down. While two years of control is better, injuries or lack of production can create more demand for a mid-season trade. Plus, Francona is one of the greatest managers at getting more out of his team and they have a few guys that could breakout and rebound.
In rebound, you do mean Central champs because that’s their ceiling.
Tribefan4ever: Is the Cleveland market really such that they can’t sign Lindor to an extension (which he probably won’t take) or re-sign him as a FA? I’m not all that familiar with their market and if the reason is that they can’t do it, or they just won’t, like the Yankees were for the past several years.
Yes. Market sizes really hurt teams like Cleveland. I can’t remember where I saw it, but the Indians actually spend a higher percentage of their income on salaries than the yankees and dodgers. They just can’t compete with the overwhelming numbers NY and LA can generate
You’re half right. Sure, there could be greater demand at the trade deadline because of an injury somewhere but also have to weight the risk that Lindor himself gets hurt seriously again this year.
Agreed, it is time to trade Lindor if they can get Lux, May, and Verdugo type package for him. If they can do that deal they would be the favorites in the central still.
Actually, I just saw this exact trade proposed as the most likely (out of all the teams for Lindor) to occur this weekend. It is speculation, of course, but interesting, nonetheless. Man, if LAD gets Lindor they’re going to be even better and they’re already favorites to go to the World Series. I would really like to see the Yankees pull something together but I don’t know they can do it unless they include Jasson Dominguez.
In think Garcia, Florial, Wade, Andujar (or Urshela) and Frazier May get it done. Very tenuous at best, however.
Jasson Dominguez isnt eligible to be traded per rules because he has not played in the minor leagues yet. Stop including him in trade proposals, people!
As for the trade package of Garcia, Florial, Wade, Andujar, and Frazier: it would hurt a lot but I’d do it for someone like Francisco Lindor. Heck I would even swap out Wade for Luis Medina if that’s what it takes
That will not get Lindor. Andujar ( health after injury, very poor defense), Frazier (very poor defense and poor attitude) , and Florial (declining prospect value, can’t get out of high A level) Andujar and Frazier both likely to be DHs. Lindor too talented to trade for a package of question marks.
They won’t get all 3 for Lindor but maybe if they want to throw in Clevinger and Hand it would work
That’s barely enough for Lindor and you want them to add in those 2? Crazy talk.
Again, this isn’t gonna happen
Keep both. They should be adding to their roster during this 2 year window while the rest of the division other than the the Twins and maybe white sox are rebuilding.
Keep both at the expense of losing them in a few years and not taking advantage of getting good prospects/MLB ready players back? That sounds like a double whammy to me.
There was a tome in baseball where trying towin was the actual goal. Team won 93 games with a ton of injuries, why should they tear down.
If Indians kept this team together and added a few pieces, they’d be a beast of a team in the not-too-distant-future.
Team won 93 games in a division with 3 teams tanking. and the division winner they couldn’t beat went and showed they didn’t belong in the playoffs..
And the Cubs and Astros showed that sometimes you have to lose and rebuild to win. Cleveland has an opportunity to rebuild quicker by getting several great prospects for 2 players.they’ll lose in a few years anyway.
Yes, with the reality that they will not keep this team together and pick up the necessary pieces, I totally agree with you. I said below that they could rebuild their entire team just from trading those two.
So like what Miami did with Yelich, Stanton, and Ozuna? Because that’s exactly the direction they look like they’re headed. At least they shed payroll though..
Yeah, but I think the Indians are in a far better position with their players, thus the return will be much greater. I wouldn’t compare their trades with Clever and Lindor to Miami because they’re in completely different positions, financially and otherwise. I could be wrong, but I really don’t see them accepting anything less than a fully stocked farm system for those two.
Others on this site have said Lindor isn’t as good as people think, but I would take him as the Yankees ss over just about anyone else in the game, with only a few exceptions.
That’s what I’m talking about!
I understand trading Kluber.. what I didn’t understand was the return. Trading Santana makes sense to me. Heck even trading Carrasco if they’re confident in their young staff and so desperate to shed payroll, makes sense to me. Trading Clevinger, whose young and a bargain, the exact thing Cleveland says they’re “looking for”, does not. Trading young proven talent in search for young proven talent is fools gold. Don’t give up the ‘ship!
Exactly. It makes no sense to trade Clevinger unless they are in total rebuilding mode. They are not.
What does winning this weak division mean? A quick exit beatdown by the Astros or Yankees?
Please…you probably said the same thing when the Tribe’s rotation was decimated in 2016 yet the Indians bludgeoned the favored Red Sox, whipped the favored Blue Jays, and took the juggernaut Cubs to extra innings before losing the World Series. The next year, a loaded Cleveland team had New York by the throat and let the ALDS slip away.
Winning a division can get you home field, and there’s no telling what kind of injuries or slumps can befall a team. Saying the Yankees or Astros are invincible is evidence of a weak mind and spirit. You don’t play the games on paper, they are played on the field and in baseball, you never know how the ball will bounce.
I’m sure Francisco Lindor, Jose Ramirez, Carlos Santana, Mike Clevinger, Carlos Carrasco, and Shane Bieber are afraid of no one, even if you are.
Yeah, but a how many teams can say they are better than those teams right now on paper, the answer is none!
Slider? And? Go home sit by the fire? Read a book? Don’t look outside?
Scary . . . You add silly thoughts.
All those teams were better on paper than the 93 win nationals too. And it’s not like they were the first regular season non juggernaut to win a WS recently. Giants three times, Royals, Cards, etc. get to the playoffs and it’s very possible for any team to win it all. It’s almost as if the mlbtr community somehow forgot this.
This all depends on where they see themselves going in the next few years. If they see themselves as contenders now then they won’t sell off anyone else but if they don’t then I say trade all of the value assets you can.
What would be the point in trading Lindor and keeping Clevinger?
FWIW I picked keep both.
Uhhhhhhh Clevinger is a borderline ace entering arbitration for the first time this year? And the Tribe is trying to compete in 2020?
Ace only gets you so far. If you’re trading the other half of the equation you might as well trade people at max value.
@mathblaster I’m not saying you are wrong. But if you are right, then trading Lindor for anything is going to be a hard “no.”
Agreed, keep Clevenger, trade Lindor for Lux, May, and a prospect and add with money you have saved on Lindor. Rebuild complete, contenders. Dodgers can win the West without a shortstop.
No, the Indians need to make the team better if they want to contend now. And there’s just no way to simultaneously do that and trade Lindor. So if they trade him Clevinger is gone.
That’s cause you’re smart Jimthegoat
Lindor is as good as gone.
The truth: To who, for whom?
There are obviously a lot of Dodgers fans in the early stages of this poll
I love rumors started by out of town writers with zero facts behind them. Exactly what reason would the Indians have to trade an ace level starter making a relative pittance for salary with 3 years of control left? That’s a player they want to be on the receiving end of, not trading away.
“Exactly what reason would the Indians have to trade an ace level starter making a relative pittance for salary with 3 years of control left?”
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Because the Dolan’s have to pay off John Sherman who left as an investor and bought the Royals.
The Indians have major financial problems. They cannot afford to pay the salaries of top-tier players – even if the salaries are awarded in arbitration. No idea how many years that will go on for.
So, you’re now their personal financial officer? No? Then maybe don’t speak about things that you don’t have firsthand knowledge about.
Where do you get this nonsense from?
John Sherman’s Indians shares will go into a trust until they are sold.
The Dolans may be an interested party and potential purchasers,but certainly do not have to buy Sherman’s shares back,much less “pay him off”.
The Indians are in fine financial shape.They’ve cut payroll commensurate to lower attendance the last two off-seasons and don’t have any financial reason to trade ether Lindor or Clevinger..
To claim otherwise is even more nonsense.
@ themaven7;
Where do you get your nonsense from?
Show me documentation that John Sherman’s Indians shares will go into a trust until they are sold.
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@ sufferfortribe;
What firsthand knowledge do you have?
And that’s my point.
Here you go:
cleveland.com/tribe/2019/11/john-shermans-purchase…
And it’s been reported in every major sports publication as well.
Don’t let facts get in the way of your opinion though ,no matter how nonsensical it is.
Will you just stop Vandals. Everyone has read this from over and over again.. They can afford to play Clevinger.
B-a-c-k problems last summer.
This is one of the most painful parts of being an Indians fan.
They play in EASILY the worst division in MLB. No, they shouldn’t trade Lindor OR Clevinger. I actually think the Kluber trade was smart, but Clev and Lindor are too damn young and too damn good.
Keep both unless you are blown away. The deadline is another story, but that depends on how the team looks. I think Lindor is worth just as much at the deadline as only known contenders will be interested, they’ll have a better understanding of what high level prospects are key to their playoff run or not, and the cost of $6m or so for an MVP level SS is something even Oakland would authorize.
On Clevinger, he has so much control left that they should have multiple chances to trade him in JD outside of seasons if they choose to rebuild for 2022-23 and beyond
Sell him “high”. He could fall off or sprain that back again. Should have traded Kluber “high” last off season.
He did not sprain his back, he tore a muscle.
I can tell you for certain that both should and will be dealt. If that’s what it takes to get Lux in the package from the Dodgers as well as Dustin May ( who will replace Clevinger) , the Indians will pull the trigger. Clevinger is a violent throwing pitcher and he will get injured again.
Dodgers will not trade Lux for Lindor.
.If Lindor and Seager leave in 2 years when their contracts are up, what do they do for a SS?
Friedman is not dumb.
They absolutely would. They can re-sign Lindor and they’re contending now. Lux isn’t a sure thing at all.
No they would not and the potential to resign Lindor(at market rate) has nothing to do with any value that the Indians would see in a trade.
Lindor has 2 yrs of control left on his deal(at a combined 35-40m cap hit) so 2 yrs of value is what teams would be paying for…
Flip Lindor for May Seager and Kiebert Ruiz with Dodgers and Trade Clevenger to Padres for Abrams Baez and Wearhers. If I am the Indians I would do those today. Solves some cash issues and shores up team long and short term. That Outfield is still awful though.
The Dodgers being able to re-sign Lindor isn’t a reason to trade for him unless he extends for below market value as part of the trade.
And why would they trade Clevinger for that package?. RJ, must be a Padre fan. They have no cash issues for 2020. Besides Clevinger is still very affordable.
If they want Lindor they will!
Do they really want to be world champions or not, that’s Friedman’s question to himself. If so, make the deal.
Jeter Downs
Friedman is not dumb, but dude needs to grow a pair. Dodgers have been a piece or two away and yet afraid to sign a major free agent to a long term deal or trade prospects to but the team in the best position to win it all. Got to takes risk sometimes
May can’t hold Sunshine’s jockstrap.
My same sentiments!!!
Trade clevinger to the phillies cause as a Phillies fan, I want him.
See, now that makes sense. Simple and to the point.
I’m a Yankees fan but wouldn’t want Clev. Dude has beautiful locks and would hate to see them cut
bless you lol.
I would think the Rays might be a dark horse for Lindor. Adames+ for Lindor, and they keep him for 2020 and then trade him whenever it’s Franco-time, or squeeze both Lindor and Franco together in for a couple months in 2021.
The only thing I’ve ever seen you write that is well thought out and reasonable.
Adames and a decent prospect from their farm system (not Wander), plus possibly a low-level prospect are all they can realistically expect for a 2 year rental. Rays would have to take on $30-35m of additional salary for the next 2 years. They might have that money.
Wander will be up in 2021 (maybe late 2020, and can play 3B or 2B before Lindor leaves. Rays have to take on
Lol no they can realistically expect Franco+ for the best SS in the game, not a scrub and a low level prospect. 2 years is a lot of control at arb prices.
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/10/dodgers-reportedly-expe…
Vandals I couldn’t put my finger on what is was with you. But I think you are a little hot and cold if you catch my drift. A month ago you were proposing the dodgers give up an arm and a leg and now you’re down to Willy Adames + 2 okay prospects. Not really sure. Maybe two people use your account. If not, I’m really not sure
@ jbigz12 – aka ankle-biter;
A month ago I felt that there would be an avalanche of teams heading for Lindor. Don’t feel that way anymore. There are more quality SS’s in MLB then at any other position. Lindor may be the best. But how much better?
Here’s the thing…..
I saw Lindor play numerous times in the minors. He had an ego to beat the band. As for his always smiling, jumping up and down, slapping his teammates and playing to the cameras – that started the day he was called up to the Indians. Never saw that in the minors. Point being this – he markets himself well and will do what benefits him. Period. I’d suggest that teams see him as a 2 year rental, nothing more. His situation will be the same as Donaldson’s is today – in the 2021-22 offseason he’ll put himself on the market. Period. Wants the bucks. Period. Who he played for previously will carry little weight.
There is no reason in the world for a team to give up a large bundle for him. Is he worth even worth Lux alone – a player with 4 extra years of control that will be playing at an average of maybe 15% of what Lindor will over the next 6 years, and less then 5% of what they’d have to pay Lindor over the next 2 years?
The Dodgers may have plenty of money and prospects, but the issue is how much difference can one position player make over another when he can only bat once every 9 times, and can only field the ball if it’s hit to him? Better still – in 2018 Seager got hurt so the Dodgers traded for “superstar” Manny Machado. The media made him the focus of the team. Exactly how much better was he than Seager? Dodger fans on here didn’t see much difference at all. Most thought Segar was better.
My feeling today is this – the Indians should be ecstatic if they could get Alex Verdugo alone for Lindor. A power-hitting run-producing decent defensive OF. Three years younger then Lindor, controlled through 2024, and playing 2020 at less then 4% of Lindor’s projected salary. No reason the Dodgers would do that trade. The Indians will be fortunate to get one decent major league player for him, and a teams #3-5 prospect.
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I’m honored at your spending your time researching my comments. Maybe you can research the dozens of unpopular positions I’ve taken that worked out as I noted. Learn something.
I’ve read your posts as well. LOL Not worth my time documenting them.
Not really, boss. You went on a tirade on how nonsensical the Lindor trade speculation even was. You then proceeded to say how it would cost an arm and a leg. A month later you’re asking for Adames+. That’s a massive change of opinion for someone who was so adamant.
Literally a week ago you went on a tangent when I made a joke about Greg Bird+ for Lindor. Where you asked for Torres and Urshela. So don’t act like this is ankle biting. When you do a complete 180 on something you’ve directly said on my posts; do you expect me to not ask why? I’m not real sure what you expect
Don’t waste your time arguing with Vandals. No one listens to his nonsense anyway.
I think they could get him but would still more than likely trade him the same year for better, although fewer prospects players back than they gave up. It’s perfect for a team like them who should/need (to) condense some talent to increase their chances over the next 4-10 years. After the D Young chain was reminded to me I’d like to see a new/continued one having Lindor as the beginning could be great. Rays trade a slew of players and prospects at Cle for Lindor, then play with him for half a year until Lad/Hou/etc are desperate for him and offer May+, Forrest+ etc. A three ten trade could happen but I don’t think it’s as likely.
Man, the Rays have the prospects to do it…. I don’t know they’d be willing to get rid of Franco… by all accounts, he’s on another planet. But, you never know. I do think they would offer up Adames plus prospects though, and he’s pretty good himself.
Wander is the best prospect in MLB at age 18.
The Rays are not trading him. Period.
True, I agree. I wonder if the Indians would be bold enough demand him in a trade though? Either way, wouldn’t happen… they will keep Franco until he has to get paid in the latter stages of arbitration, or until he becomes a FA. Then he goes to the Yankees.
Lol OK
Thetruth: You don’t think Franco is that good? I have not seen him but everything I’ve read or heard about him confirms what Vandals said above.
You mean Franco + right? Because that’s what Cleveland would expect and get,
Depends on the haul for Clevinger. Hell cost them something like 30-35M over the next 3 years versus Lindor who will cost 40-45M over the next 2 seasons. I think they’d also have more success extending Clevinger than Lindor. If some team blows them away with a “cant miss” prospect headliner it makes sense to deal him and restart your clock. Baseball America Top-5 only need apply. The bust rate of those Top-5 guys is somewhere in the 15% range when I looked at it a few years ago I went back 15 or so years. They are rarely wrong in the Top-5 ranking.
Yeah, with Clevinger’s upside and cheap contract, they have to insist on top guys in return.
They should keep both and make a run in a weak division.
BUT, if they are doubting their chances, might as well move both. Maybe to LA and just gut the Dodgers’ farm system. Tell the Dodgers they can only have both in a package deal, then insist on Lux, May, etc, etc, etc
Lux and May …. and if they’re feeling lucky, throw Stripling into the mess.
Y’all gonna be disappointed when he leaves for neither Lux or May
I picked keep both. In another article about trading Lindor to the Padres, I said that Indians would likely ASK for Tatis or Gore plus some. There were a ton of people that criticized that opinion, stating Indians would take prospects, other than Gore or Tatis. I don’t believe they will trade Lindor unless they get premier prospects in return, and that is IF they trade him at all. I think he will ultimately hit FA as an Indian.
As a matter of fact, I believe my friend Kayrall was the author of some of those insults. Hi, Kayrall.
FWIW…Tatis is 20, has 5 years of cheap control & put up an ops+ of 152 over 84 games as a rookie last year…which was good for 4.2 worth of war.
Lindor in comparison put up a 4.7 war in 143 games last yr.
True, he’s good and you’re right, sir. Valid point
SD aren’t getting Tatis and probably wouldn’t even bother. Lindor is absolutely traded before free agency. Not even remotely likely he’s not unless he gets injured.
To who? For whom?
And what do you mean SD aren’t getting Tatis? They already have him.
Cleveland did the “best, final” offer thing with Kluber last year too, before pulling the rug out on bidding teams., so a trade is no sure thing this weekend at all. Cleveland has a second chance to make up for that mistake and I think they’ll take what they consider the best deal.
This a negotiating ploy,just like the Dodgers trotting out a broadcaster to drop Clevinger’s name into the Lindor trade speculation this past week.
Good point. I would have traded not just Kluber, but Carrasco, Salazar (Couldn’t remember his name for a year), Kipnis and would have kept Giovanni Urshella (3rd baseman). Kipnis would have been right before or after his contract, Carrasco would have been fine, but I think I might have flipped Kluber three years early or so. So I would have one on 3/4 on trading and 1/1 on waiting to trade. A big thing I don’t believe people think of is Ramirez gets to play 2nd which might keep him a little healthier. I probably would have trade Ramirez also but not sure I’d have done it at the right time.
LOL
1. Who would you have traded them for?
2. You’re suggesting the Indians should never have tried to win? They should just develop youngsters for other MLB teams?
3. #2 is where they again appear to be headed. Unfortunate for the fans, but that happens to all the small market teams in MLB. Who cares about their puny fans? A level playing field is not needed. Just wait to see what happens at the next CBA as the players push to be free agents after 4 years instead of 6. Half the franchises in MLB will officially become AAAA teams. Developing FO people, managers, and coaches as well as players for the large market teams. And that’s where I and tens of millions of others jump off the MLB train.
I’m sure I could have thrown names out at the time but I’m not an exec. I’ll admit I get grief occasionally for it but I’d rather sell early than late. Clev is disadvantaged as are the Rays and lesser extent the Cards. The difference could be just what I’ve said (after the post you reference) that they and others follow the Rays and turn D Young into two players, then turn one of those into four who pan out, then turn that into two significant pieces for a much more extended window than they would have had. Lindor for May, Lux returns two players with just as high or close to it ceilings who are seen as likely to hit that together. That is hugely valuable. The Rays have 4-5 guys who look like they’ll steal bases and play defense pretty well along with at the least a stable of bp arms and a few 3-5 starters all ready together.
Extend both
They should reload as much as possible.
Trade Bieber
neither or both. either rebuild or contend.
They could rebuild their team completely for the future with just those two trades.
Build the future around Lindor. Would rather try and move Ramirez.
Try and move Ramirez? With his contract, that wouldn’t be hard.
But it’s all about the Benjamins, hence Lindor being the one dangled.
Ramirez ain’t going nowhere.
Sufferfortribe: as an Indians fan, what do you think Indians would ask teams for in a trade for Lindor? I think it will be top prospects (like top 5 MLB, not by team) and nothing less, IF they were to trade him. I’m interested to know from someone intimately familiar with the team.
I’m a Tribe season ticket holder and I would say Lux and one of May or Verdugo would be what it would take for the Tribe to trade Lindor.
Okay… you think LA is the most likely team then to get him?
you really think they will get that much for 2 years of a player
You bring up a great point, which is why I don’t think there is a trade to be made. I think the Indians Erik ask too much for the time Lindor has before FA, but teams will not want to part with their top prospect plus some. I really believe he will be with them for the next 2 years
I think the Tribe will ask for what they always do, controllable players that have a lower cost. But in Lindor’s case, a mix of major and minor league guys. Obviously they’ll need a SS, at least one for a couple seasons, until Tyler Freeman is ready.
Now, since all signs seem to point to no reunion with Kipnis, they’ll need a 2B, because I’m not holding my breath that anyone in there system is ready to step up. Chang might work, but only if his bat comes to life.
An outfield bat would be nice, too, along with pitching depth.
One variable concerns Ruiz. The Indians have one they recently drafted, Bo Naylor. He’s already shown an advanced bat, but is still a work in progress behind the dish. He’s already taken reps at 3B, so do they ask for Ruiz and make the move permanent? Do they move Nolan Jones to the OF then? So many working parts, it gets confusing at times.
If it’s the Dodgers they deal with, then I imagine they want Lux to start. I believe the Dodgers would be dumb to offer him up, though. Not really how Friedman operates.
But I also trust that the Indians brain trusts know exactly they would accept from LA. Having recently watched their High-A team near me, I can tell you they have some solid players coming through their system, guys that aren’t the big name prospects. Identifying those is something the Tribe is good at.
My other trade partner would be Atlanta, though they may not have all the pieces they’d seek.
Great piece, man. That was thorough and interesting. I appreciate the information from you, brother. I’ll start taking some looks at the Freeman kid too. I’m not all that familiar with him.
You’re welcome. If you’re interested, a really good site to follow for information about Cleveland’s minor league system is Burning River Baseball. The guy who runs it, Joseph Coblitz, is based in the Goodyear, AZ area, and is at their complex constantly. (which makes me jealous)
He also has other writers located in their minor league cities, for that perspective.
What I appreciate about his articles is that he doesn’t hold back saying what he’s really thinking.
@TheMick7
Yes.
But they’ll have to pay the Indians price and Friedman doesn’t seem inclined to do so.
What part of over $300 million can’t you understand?
Id only trade lindor whom they cant afford and is very overrated to be honest. He is a good player in a position where not many are good similar to the catcher position. Overall indians could receive a ton from the dodgers than would expand there window for another 5/6 years. Clevinger is too valuable to trade unless its a ridiculous return.
How much you know of baseball? Very overrated? Very overrated was Bryce Harper +$300m.
Lindor… Check Golden Gloves, +30hr, +100 rbi, runs scores, games played, team chemistry, leadership, etc. Behavior in and out of baseball parks. Check Basic metrics or statistics.
They should trade both. But, to 2 different teams. They could get 2 decent guys for each plus some lotto type guys.
Keep both for now but if the team is struggling put them on the market this summer. Clevinger’ trade value will continue to be high and Lindor’s won’t drop off too much either.
Francona would not coach a team that doesn’t plan on winning. He’s not a rebuild manager. At the same time, there’s a business side to the game, where some organizations must flip their stars for more asset control. It’s the only way they sustain success.
Lindor’s value is more than the back of his baseball card. He’s an event, and as I said in another post, has the potential to be the Pat Mahomes of MLB.
Sadly, tho, that only has value in a large market; there’s just so much commercial (endorsements, etc.) possibility in a small market. Mookie Betts in Boston is worth infinitely more than Mookie Betts in Kansas City; and Betts is half as marketable (by choice, perhaps) than Lindor.
Friedman in LA knows this, and I think he makes a major push; they’ve got the money and the prospect capital. Clevinger? A bit more risk there, so I think they hold onto him. Besides, losing Kluber, Frankie AND everybody’s favorite pitcher the same winter is pretty rotten form.
and the Indians fan who do not show up to the park will continue to “not show up”.
Indians Fans: We’ve got the talent to consistently win the division and challenge for a title!
Indians Ownership & FO: Seems like a good time to sell off parts and rebuild.
They aren’t challenging for no title, get that part out of the left side of your brain and you’ll start to see the light of this type of trade.
hi, I’d just like to say I’ve lost respect for this site, of which I’ve long been a follower, for engaging in clickbait nonsense. there are plenty of other, more direct places I can one can go for ‘mlb rumors’
I’m a bit confused… I’ve now seen on several different articles on this site people opining Lindor is not that good, or that he is not a great ss. I don’t see it; the numbers support it, he passes the proverbial “eye test” and is widely regarding as one of the best, or the best, all-around ss in the game. That’s based on his talent and doesn’t necessarily include all of his intangibles too.
As I said below, as a lifelong diehard Yankee fan, I would take Lindor in a heartbeat over nearly every ss in MLB. The guy is great, in my opinion, and Indians know what they have, so why sell low on Lindor or Clevinger?
he is certainly consistent at high level but his defense is not as good as that of simmons.
They are NOT selling “low”…where are you getting that? They are really not even “selling” but rather listening. Everyone listens.
Avory,, I was referring to all the comments saying there is no way the Indians are getting too prospects. I never said the team was doing the trade. After all, sir, we are on a rumors forum. Nonetheless, it doesn’t change the comments that if they trade him, they will not get top prospects in return. You would have to read the comments to put my statement into context, it will make more sense. As a matter of fact, I’m one of the voices on this forum who believes they will sell high, as I said in the statement.
OK, got it. Appreciate the clarification.
You got it. Thanks
indians should hold onto every player until they leave for free agency!
Rumor has it..Gray, Gonsolin, Saeger and and more has been offered to Cleveland for Lindor and Clevinger and they’ll have an answer before Christmas. Rumor also has it Dodgers feel very confident they’ll land them but if they don’t they have a DeLa in place for Betta and Price so they’ll go that route if this falls though. I don’t know that I believe this but I pray it’s true lol
Those prayers will go unanswered, of that I’m certain.
Gray Gosolin and Seager will not get you Lindor or Clevinger. It definitely won’t get you both. You are absolutely dreaming.
If you trade one might as well trade both and do a full rebuild while the al East and west are stacked. It would be easier to rebuild in a weaker division because you have the ability to develop guys as long as you need to.
Jeez, what is wrong with people? A full rebuild because other teams are “stacked”? When you are favored to win the division?
I guess you would have recommended the same approach when the Nats were 19-31?
This is not the NBA or the NFL, folks. How many times do you have to be reminded of this?
twins have the division in their back pocket.
Vegas odds as of yesterday to win the World Series. Tribe 20-1, Twins 25-1, White Sox 65-1.
The idea that it’s the Twins division to lose is nonsense.
england premier league’s leicester city became champs despite 5,000:1 odds.
And who is the Twins 4th and 5th starters? Do they even have 5 starters yet?
Nothing. A full rebuild makes sense for what they can acquire for these two players. They can rebuild their farm system. Why wouldn’t they? That said, I’m not convinced they will trade Lindor and certainly not Clevinger unless the offer is so overwhelming they simply cannot refuse.
Avory, people don’t read or listen and comprehend. They hear what they want to hear. All a team has to do is get to the playoffs and anything can happen.
Get the most you can for both
I am a Reds fan since I can remember anything. I have family in the Mistake so I’ve always loved the Indians too, love the Jake.. Keep them both, the nucleus is still potent enough for the comedy Central. Keep things recognizable for one more tour, if things turn tripe by July then cash in.
I sense a reboot coming on. Kluber was a salary dump. Now the Tribe is “listening” on Lindor and even throwing out Clevinger as a possibility…yeah, I smell rebuild.
If they are this worried about payroll and feel the return could net them a rapid-rebuild, two years, then yeah, trade them both for a King’s ransom.
Then you may as well move Ramirez, Carrasco & Bieber, too. Santana becomes a trade deadline salary dump.
Can they reboot and come out still ahead of K.C. and the Tigers? Do they feel the White Sox will be contenders in the next couple years? Those are all questions for the front office.
I just don’t think they will commit what it will take to be a legit World title threat…I think they should sell high and go reboot-mode. Plan for cost-efficient, sustainable success.
In my opinion CLE broke the seal on their true intentions when Kluber was dealt for a light return. It seems Lindor will most definitely be dealt soon, and I won’t fault the Tribe for that as long as the return is clearly substantial and won’t require endless justification from apologists. The telling factor in all this is that the Indians haven’t been “in” on any free agent so far this winter – they’ve shown zero interest in anyone which tells me Dolan has likely advised the front office their budget for FAs is zero until further notice.
Clevinger’s fate will be determined once the remaining SP market depletes, so I don’t see him being moved for another month or so. Waiting to deal him at the deadline is possible, but it’s a gamble.
Cleveland has not thrown out Clevinger in trade talks. It was a Dodger media person who stated that the Dodgers brought him up in trade talks.
I think the talk involving Clevinger is based off of people (I believe there is reports from Lad) that Lux and May are too rich, so Friedman/Cle got creative and Clevinger popped up. I haven’t seen May but from the looks of it he’s looking like the next Buehler, so May, Lux+ for Clevinger and Lindor. Looks close on surplus value to me but I don’t believe Friedman trades 12-14 years of those two plus for Lindor and doubt he does those two plus what it says for both clev and Lindor. My guess is Lad gets both but not sure how maybe they send a contract with them.
If the Dodgers give up Lux and May, they definitely would need both Clevinger and Lindor back. However, the Indians may be better off splitting their assets and trying to get the best package for Lindor elsewhere and moving Clevinger to the Dodgers for a May centered package. Dodgers need a number two starting pitcher more than they need a middle infielder.
May, Verdugo, and Ruiz should net the Dodgers Clevinger. Dodgers will try to swap Pederson for Verdugo, Indians should hold firm.
A non-Lux option for both Lindor and Clevinger: May/Verdugo/Smith/Stripling/Downs
Like to see if the Dodgers move Seager to the Reds for young talent that Cleveland wants, then spin it plus some of their assets for Lindor and Clevinger. Reds and Dodgers have a recent history of working together.
As a fan with season tickets who’s watched Lindor play since his MLB debut, I believe he’s already in decline compared to his 2016-2017 years. If there’s perceived value and good return, he absolutely should be treated.
Clevenger, on the other hand is inexpensive and under control. He contributes to much to the Indians’ dominant starting pitching to be traded now. They should hold on him.
POLL: Should MLBtradeRumors change its name to MLBtradeGossip? This is getting old.
It’s December
Cleveland, despite all the ownership talk of “small market realities,” is a great sports town that fills the ballpark when the Indians are winning. They should not only extend Lindor, but take advantage of their great core by adding in free agency instead of being worried about end result financial returns.
Dolan is a billionaire….he can afford to go all in and get the ring!