11:00am: The Brewers have formally announced the trade.
“Omar has established himself as one of the best offensive catchers in the game,” president of baseball operations David Stearns said in a press release. “We believe his bat will give us an impactful left-handed presence in our lineup.”
9:20am: The Brewers look to have found their replacement for Yasmani Grandal, as they’ve reportedly struck a trade to acquire Omar Narvaez from the Mariners in exchange for minor league right-hander Adam Hill and a Competitive Balance draft pick. The Brewers’ pick this year lands in Round B this year and is currently slotted in at No. 71 overall, although draft forfeitures for free agents who rejected qualifying offers could nudge that selection up a few spots.
Narvaez is one of the few backstops in baseball that can come close to matching Grandal with the bat. And he’ll cost a whole lot less, bringing three seasons of control that begin with a projected arbitration cost of just $2.9MM. That’s not to say the Brewers won’t miss the outgoing Grandal. He’s a premium defender, especially in the pitch-framing department. Narvaez is considered a work in progress with the glove. He graded as one of the game’s worst framers in 2018 but did make strides to average levels last year.
Though Narvaez is unquestionably a nice addition, there are some risks here for the Milwaukee organization. His .278/.353/.460 slash and 22 long balls from 2019 came despite a decidedly chilly 85.4 mph average exit velocity and 27.5% hard-hit rate. Narvaez can draw a walk, with an 11.3% career rate, but could slip back towards league-average in overall offensive productivity if he can’t sustain the power output.
One other factor here: Most of the damage done by the left-handed-hitting Narvaez last year came against right-handed pitching. The Brewers will presumably task Manny Pina with a larger role than he was allotted last year with Grandal around.
As for the Mariners, this is only the latest in a long line of roster swaps. Consider its place in this strand of the voluminous trade history of Seattle Jerry Dipoto. Narvaez arrived last fall in the swap that sent reliever Alex Colome to the White Sox. Colome had only just landed in Seattle along with Denard Span in a creative mid-2018 arrangement. Now, after one productive year with the M’s and despite several seasons of affordable control remaining, the 27-year-old Narvaez is heading out the door. He stands to be replaced by 28-year-old Tom Murphy, who was himself picked up in a late-spring deal earlier in 2019.
Murphy’s own booming breakout in Seattle last year presumably helped nudge the Mariners into a move here. There’s also a solid prospect on the way in Cal Raleigh, though he’s not necessarily ready for prime time and isn’t a sure thing. The Mariners will presumably now set out looking for a second piece of a new backstop tandem. Since the right-handed-hitting Murphy made his mark almost exclusively against left-handed-hitting pitching last year — he carried a whopping 450-point OPS spread — it stands to reason that the team will prefer to find a player who (like the outgoing Narvaez) profiles as a strong option against opposing righty pitching.
In Hill, the Mariners will acquire a 2018 fourth-rounder who’s already been traded once since being drafted out of the University of South Carolina. The Mets selected Hill with the 110th overall pick in 2018 but traded him to the Brewers in exchange for Keon Broxton last January less than a year after that pick. (Ironically, Broxton landed in Seattle on a waiver claim long after the Mets had cut him.)
Hill spent the 2019 season with Milwaukee’s affiliate in the Class-A Midwest League, tallying 121 2/3 innings of 3.92 ERA ball with 8.1 K/9, 4.1 BB/9, 0.89 HR/9 and a 44.4 percent ground-ball rate in 23 starts (plus another three relief outings). Hill is 6’6″ and listed at 225 pounds, so he has plenty of size to stick as a starter, though reports from FanGraphs and MLB.com note that his questionable command could drop him into a bullpen role despite the potential for three average or better pitches (fastball, slider, changeup). He was ranked in the back half of the Brewers’ top 30 prospects and should fall into similar standing within a rapidly improving Mariners farm system.
Seattle will also pick up an additional pick in the 2020 draft as well as the slot money that accompanies that selection. Draft slot values for next year aren’t yet known, but picks in that general vicinity slotted in around $900K in value last year, so it’s likely the M’s are adding close to a million dollars to next year’s draft pool. Seattle gave up two fairly expensive seasons of Colome to acquire four years of Narvaez in the first place, and they’ve parlayed that deal into a productive year from Narvaez, a decent pitching prospect and some additional capital in the upcoming draft. It’s not an overwhelming return, but the end result moves the needle on the Mariners’ rebuild forward a bit.
Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported that the two sides were close to a deal (via Twitter). Greg Johns of MLB.com reported the Mariners’ return and that the deal had been completed (via Twitter).
DarkSide830
he’s not the defender Grandal is, but his bat can suffice and he’s much cheaper.
JackStrawb
He’s a nice pickup. It’ll be interesting to see the return.
baseballpun
Josh Hader.
Justabit0utside
There is absolutely zero chance that they trade Hader away for him.
lewisbrinsonisgod
Well a 40 grade pitcher and a compensatory pick is pretty much the same as Josh Hader
brewcrewenthusiast
it’s like saying lewis brinson is a god
Bigmac93
Lmao thanks for pointing that out bud. It was beyond clear he was joking. Yikes….
lewisbrinsonisgod
Just curious as to how that’s obvious.. Idiots abound, particularly on this site.
PinstripedPride
LOL not even close. I was actually surprised how little Seattle got (in theory) in return for him
realsox
I agree. Narvaez is a nice addition to the Brewers’ roster.
stubby66
Grandal wasnt that great either though
mlb1225
There is a very big difference defensively from Grandal to Narvaez.
baseballdeez
There’s also a sizable difference between Grandal’s metrics and watching him every night. When you watch Molina you see an elite defender. When you watch Grandal you don’t see that at all
clepto
When I watch Molina, I see bad choices in neck tattoos. Period. End of story.
mlb1225
I don’t need to watch every single game to tell me that Grandal defensively is better than Narvaez.
RollieCG4
Grandal is not Johnny Bench. It’s an era when a guy hits .246 and has 100+ walks he is the best catcher in the game. His defense is a little above average. 2 years ago the guy was butching balls in LA and being replaced late in games for defensive reasons.
mlb1225
I never said he was Johnny Bench. All I was saying is that defensively, Grandal>Narvaez.
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
WATCH TEH GAEMZ!!1!
RollieCG4
I realize you didn’t. Just saying I don’t believe that the gap between producing catchers is that large anymore. 18 million and 3 million. That’s a gap I like for the minimal talent difference
jtvincent
5 years ago.
jtvincent
they match his attitude. dude is a punk
maximumvelocity
The difference is not minimal.
There is not a single aspect of the game where Omar N. Thrives behind the plate. He can’t frame, can’t block , pitchers don’t talk about how good he is at calling games, his arm is average, he’s slow.
davemlaw
Robinson Chirinos turned himself into a serviceable defensive catcher, why can’t this kid?
Defense can be improved but hitting ability usually can’t, at least not as quickly.
baseballdeez
Nobody is arguing Omar is a better defender than Grandal brah. We’re making the point that the gap isn’t as wide as you state. It’s certainly noticeable but Grandal is nowhere near as good as his metrics say he is.
BuddyBoy
It is huge
Shawnpe
The talent gap is not $15 million based on statistics.
But to say the defensive metrics between the two is not large is just being a little naive. It is substantial.
Pitch framing is a key metric intge era of the high stike, and even more so in a “band box” sized park like Miller Park.
The difference between 1-2 and 2-1 is huge and Grandal consistently gets borderline calls.
Everyone remembers his terrible series against the Brewers in the NLCS, but that was the anomaly.
Long story short Navarro will bring solid offense, but the ERA hit to the staff will be significant, not slight.
DarkSide830
im personally not nearly as high on Grandal as others are, but ill admit he at least is a good enough defender and hitter combined to be considered one of the better catchers in baseball. then again though, even in saying that i have misgivings.
mack423
Love it for the Brewers, and Dipoto should get more value than he gave up for Narvaez last offseason (two years of Alex Colome).
DarkSide830
why the Sox only got s releiver thay everyone beleives is overpriced for him is beyond be. they certainly seemed to have pulled the trigger too early, but hey, it helped pave the way for the McCann signing, so the Sox could be worse off.
baines03
Because he is literally one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball year in and year out.
DarkSide830
he’s also a top flight hitter at a position where most players, even still, cant get on base with any consistency (something even Grandal isnt more than good at) while playing for a super cheap price under team control for several years. i get its not the best package out there, but if you want the perfect catcher for cheap, its not just that simple.
myaccount
Grandad had wRC+ of 125 and 121 plus WAR of 4.7 and 5.2 the past two years. He’s elite. Watching Narvaez play defense was one of the worst baseball experiences of my life. He tried to use his barehand to catch a ball in the Japan series when he got crossed up. He’s atrocious behind the plate beyond that one example. Good riddance.
baseballdeez
Yeah, according to Fangraphs. But according to B-R Grandal had OPS+ of 121 and 119 with WAR of 3.3 and 2.5 whereas Omar’s OPS+ was 119 and 120 with WAR of 1.9 and 2.1 while having 200 and 150 fewer AB. So there’s that.
Also, perhaps Omar was crossed up to the point his glove wouldn’t get to the ball in time so he decided to try to stop it with his barehand because that’s the side the pitch was on.
Priggs89
Yah, I think the Sox will happily keep their return over this.
Chris79stl
He will be OK, every pop fly in that ballpark turns into a 400 foot shot
ben4ben
This will be a great acquisition, he is going to have a breakout season
Badfinger
He already had his break out season. The numbers show he’s due for regression. That said, still a solid pick up.
RollieCG4
Pretty consistent numbers….if he stays where he has been, brewer fans will be happy
DarkSide830
id suggest that its worth expecting more of the same. the power was probably a fluke, but he was a strong hitter before this year.
brewcrew08
22 last year may have been a fluke. He’s also moving from Seattle to Milwaukee. Much better hitter park to hopefully keep those power numbers in the mid/upper teens.
ayrbhoy
I watch a lot of Mariners games (sad I know) you’ll like Narvaez as a hitter, personally I don’t think he’ll have a problem matching or beating the 22 mark esp in your park. If MLB decides to stop using the 2019 baseball and reverts back to the ball used in seasons prior we’ll that’s a whole different set of circumstances
myaccount
Yeah, and as a defender, they’ll hate him. I’ve never seen a catcher try to catch a ball barehanded before him.
2id
Numbers show he’s due for regression. Where did you quote that from?
Matt Galvin
Maybe also Seager or Gordon in deal to.
spinach
I like Seager (paid down) to ATL.
Rking
Seager is pretty much untradeable as his final year team option becomes a player option if he is traded for close to 20 million.
Badfinger
Brewers aren’t taking on either of those contracts.
Stevil
They already have two second basemen, so one will play out of position. Unless they valued Gordon as a utility player or SS with most of his salary covered, it’s tough to see Milwaukee taking him.
daveineg
Finally some positive news for Brewer fans. Pina hits lefites very well but they badly needed another lefty hitter after losing Grandal, Moustakas and Grisham.
Pitch framers help guys like Zach Davies, but he’s gone.
ghph
Word from the beat writer was that the Mariners pitchers hated pitching to Narvaez, that he calls a bad game [supposedly]. For their sake, hopefully the Brewers didn’t give up for him. He’s probably best splitting time at DH and C.. Too bad Milwaukee isn’t in the AL any more
stubby66
Grandal didnt call a very good game either and frankly pitchers preferred Pina. That being said I’m sure there will be plenty of late game replacement to Pina. Gotta assume that Nottingham will be part of the return to Mariners. Probably maybe a young relief pitcher in the minors.
ayrbhoy
Ghph- there were times when it appeared Narvaez and his pitcher def chose the wrong pitch to certain hitters. I often watch the Oak A’s broadcast when the Ms come to town and recall Ray Fosse questioning the pitches used against A’s hitters more than once. Is Narvaez a terrible in game manager? No. Is he improving on his defense and pitch framing? Yes, a little. I’d be more concerned with SB defense- he was really poor throwing out base stealers. On a positive note- he single- handedly won games for us with his clutch hitting and I’d assume he will fare better in your ball park
twentyforty
If this is positive news, delusion runs high. Career year Cs with low hard hit rate screams regression. You get what you pay for. League average…at best.
RollieCG4
Then look at league averages. He is above average for sure.
DTD_ATL
Most teams would scream for joy if they had a league average catcher. That’s easily the most scarce position in the game.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
By definition, half of them have that or better. Average is a relative term.
myaccount
League average hitter + one of the three worst defensive catchers in baseball = net minus as a player.
2id
“Screams regression”. Just like the Brewers were supposed to finish 3rd or even 4th in the division the last two years. How’d it feel looking up at the Brewers two years in a row?
MannyPineappleExpress9
The brewers and every individual player on the team is always ‘due to regress’ to this guy.
I’m pretty sure hes still convinced the Yelich trade is bad because Yeli is bound to regress, and Brinson is on the verge of an absolute monster breakout season.
2id
Agreed. Also, keep in mind that when the Cubs were winning Miller Park was “Wrigley North” but now the Brewers are winning due to playing in that “band box”. He has to be 14 or 15 tops.
lewisbrinsonisgod
I would give the Brewers offseason thus far an A+, pending the return here. Avoided wild overpayments to dudes in their 30s and fleeced the Padres. Thank you David Stearns.
CrewBrew
The same people that are complaining about all the guys they cut like Anderson/Davies/Guerra/Nelson/Saladino were the same people that complained about their performances all year long
God forbid a GM tries to cut average players to clear payroll, and get some new faces.
lewisbrinsonisgod
A+ remains intact since they gave up basically nothing. I think Narvaez is a decent player, nothing more, but I’ll take it.
MannyPineappleExpress9
Personally I have no complaints about any 1 player that was traded or non-tendered.. I’m just a bit surprised at how many are now gone. Including both Thames and Shaw.
This trade somewhat offsets losing Grandal, but I’m not sure there’s a reasonable replacement for Moose out there (with the current assumption that Urias will be playing ss).
bdpecore
Josh Donaldson is still available and would be a significant upgrade over Moose. Another option would be to sign Didi Gregorius to play SS and more Urias to 3B. What Urias and Didi lack in power over Moose and Arcia they make up for in OBP and the defense would be much better too.
Otherwise we are looking at players like Cabrera or Frazier who would be a serviceable but a definite step down.
rickoppelt
Narvaez, haniger and Marco Gonzalez for hiura
Badfinger
LOL.
RollieCG4
Drinking already this morning?
24TheKid
I’m not sure if everyone’s thinking the same thing here. But there’s no chance Seattle considers that.
Pingleja
I think you’d have to send cain in the form of salary relief. Not sure they’d do that anyway.
bobby clementhay
“Now who can argue with that? I think we’re all indebted to bseball 33 for clearly stating what needed to be said. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.”
DakotaJoe
I used to catch and while I know it’s not an easy position to learn I would think pitch framing shouldn’t be that hard to pick up.
steelerbravenation
Maybe if you were able to pick it up maybe you woulda got past pee wee league
Benjamin560
The Mariners won’t “presumably” go looking for JACK pal. Austin Nola says hello and is currently putting in work down in Florida.
This isn’t to say that the M’s won’t add some depth, but NOLA will most assuredly be the main back up as well Super utility next year in Seattle.
Funny as to how no one seems to have a pulse on anything going on in Seattle that resides in the media. Not that there is a pulse to gauge with its current playoff drought loomimg up to 18 years now.
BenjiB24
Exactly! Alot of people skim over the Mariners without doing their homework. You would think the media would be more aware of what’s going on. Nola is a good player. He deserves to be recognized
brewcrewjazz
Hopefully they threw in seagar and cash
$crewBaLL
apparently Nottingham is not the future.
What is the crew giving up?
stubby66
Maybe Nottingham and this guy could be a pretty good combo almost like a switch hitter especially since Nottingham can play some first.
stubby66
WOW and here just 48 hours ago the world was ending for Brewer fans. Hopefully he keeps getting better. Be interesting what is going back. Now if Erceg can take not being put on the 40 man roster as a wake up call to start working hard and possibly win third base job. He still could be as good as Moose if he gets his head right.
CrewBrew
Rarely have I been down on David Stearns. Hes trying to win, unlike Doug Melvin did most years.
We should be grateful to have David running things.
jbeerj
Melvin was handicapped by the Seligs early on. Once Mark A took over and opened the purse, things have been great.
khopper10
Castro to Seattle?
blwcubsblw
I think we can make up for his poor defense in crunch time with Pina. I really like the move.
CrewBrew
I see him getting replaced late in close games. Brewers need the offense with Moose/Grandal leaving. I wonder if the Brewers get more in this trade or if he is the only one? Maybe its a multiplayer deal. Have to wait to see if/when its finalized
Priggs89
Do you plan on carrying catchers? If not, you’re playing with fire using this idea.
CrewBrew
Nottingham has been used at first and many people have speculated that they will try him full time at first. Not sure if thats discussed much or not
augold5
With rosters expanding to 26 and versatility of players playing both C/1B, caring 3 catchers is definitely manageable
CrewBrew
Hes no Grandal, but hes young, controllable, and cheap.
Puts up good offensive numbers, even though defense is lacking. Im sure hell hit even better in Miller Park. Still love the move depending on who they give up. Hopefully not a lot.
oaklandfan22
Good, please get this guy out of the AL west. Absolutely destroys the A’s.
steelerbravenation
Wouldn’t mind Seager in Atlanta
His contract is less than what Donaldson is going to get and I believe it would be for the same time the Braves would be willing to go.
If Seattle would eat some of the cash for a prospect
More cash the better the prospect going back.
Or maybe a blockbuster with Seager & Hanigar.
Maybe Seager, Hanigar & $$$$ for Riley, Wright, Waters, Jackson & lower prospect.
vtadave
Yeah I’m sure the Braves would jump on that.
– No one
notagain27
Didn’t someone say that Seager has a 20 million dollar player option that vests if he gets traded? I would think that alone would prohibit a trade from either side.
wayneroo
Yes that’s right. $15-20 million based on performance and plate appearances. $0-$3 mill buyout.if not traded.
nailz#4life
Man the lack of MLB catching is really bad right now.
It will be great so see some young C talent take over, like the influx of young SS’s a few seasons ago. I know Balt and Sea have some young C’s that could make an impact soon.
scooterdance
Mitch Garver: hold my beer
DarkSide830
i dont think he’s saying there are no good catchers. between JT, Yaz, Garver, La Tortuga, Salvy, Molina, McCann, and others, there are plenty of guys who are good. what is notable though is that only a few of these guys are elite talents, and half of the teams in the league have pretty flawed catchers. (either now offense or no defense)
DarkSide830
hot take: Adley is overrated
hammer_time24
What makes you say that? Just curious.
barkinghumans77
Andrew Knizner in StL looks promising. They have another really good one in the minors. Plus Carson Kelly, whom they traded.
Eightball611
He wont cost less with the amount of haul he produced in his break out year…especially as a catcher.
stan lee the manly
Would Brewers fans be upset if Hader was moved in the trade centered around Narvaez? As mentioned above, the catching depth across MLB is pretty weak, so I would guess it’s going to take a decent haul to land him. There’s obviously other possibilities here, but just wondering if Narvaez is a good enough player to stomach a move like that.
lewisbrinsonisgod
I can’t think of anything on Seattle’s roster I’d take for Hader. Certainly not Omar Narvaez.
I may be missing someone obvious, but I don’t believe I am.
Porch
Jarred Kelenic? He’s from Waukesha.
lewisbrinsonisgod
Actually, Kelenic and White would pique my interest, but the Brewers are in a winning window right now. Wouldn’t make senese for the Crew.
stan lee the manly
Mitch Haniger would be a possibility in a Hader trade, he would be worth the cost of a reliever. Like I said, there may be more pieces or someone else entirely, But a Narvaez/Haniger swap for Hader+a prospect or two doesn’t seem that far off.
jerrytek
Brewers fan?
ayrbhoy
If Jerry was committed to moving Mitch I was hoping we’d package Narvaez and Haniger for a better return.
CrewBrew
Absolutely zero chance Hader is involved to get him lmao
Marytown1
Well, Hill is as tall as Hader. That must be what got Jerry to pull the trigger.
brewcrew08
Not even close lol. The brewers could go out and sign a guy like Jason Castro if the return for Omar required Hader.
kmole
I think the Brewers would need to receive more. I would bet the Brewers would ask for Evan White, at least. Not sure how that would make either side feel honestly.
Priggs89
Went from Hader to a barely top 30 prospect in a weak farm. That’s gotta hurt.
stan lee the manly
Ya, Seattle got hosed here. That return seems pitiful for a catcher-needy market.
Ezpkns34
How are there people already saying they like the trade for MIL before seeing what they’d be giving up? You can like Narvaez as a target to go after, but saying you like the trade already seems a bit silly
hyraxwithaflamethrower
As a White Sox fan, they could do worse than Narvaez. Not a bad option to replace Grandal. You’re right that it depends on the cost, but at least what they’re getting fits their needs.
CrewBrew
I said I liked him depending on what the pieces are going to Seattle. I doubt its much tho, unless its a multiplayer deal, which could be a possibility.
stubby66
Now they need to sign Duffy and trade for Domonic Smith ( w/o Hader in the trade maybe Peralta). Bring back Lyles. That would definitely give us enough salary for Madbum on a 4 or 5 year deal( that could help these young pitchers). I wouldnt mind seeing Ross, Moore, Wacha, and Wood ( a couple of these) on minor league deals.
CrewBrew
Who is Smith from the Mets? Keep hearing his name linked to the Brewers from you.
Dont have much knowledge of his talent.
Brixton
1B who can hit but they have him in LF bcuz of Pete Alonso
Eatdust666
He is first baseman/left fielder that can hit for power, but has not really hit for a good average and have a good on base percentage (.282 and .355) other than this year. Also, while he is very good defensively at first, he’s an absolute butcher in left field.
$crewBaLL
Madbum on 4/5 year deal? what kool aid are you drinking? Brewers will never do that. They want young controllable assets.
bdpecore
Dominic Smith was a highly rated 1B prospect who performed well in his first few stints in the majors but was benched for ROY Pete Alonso. Rumors have it the Mets are looking to trade him attached to either Lowrie or Familia’s bad contract to dump salary.
Smith still has 5 years of team control and has shown decent production thus far which could be appealing to Stearns if all we have to do is send back a lower level prospect and pay $10MM to Lowrie for one year.
bdpecore
There is no way D. Smith would be the headliner in a Hader deal. He doesn’t hold nearly enough value to do so.
Even thought the Mets have been rumored to be interested I just don’t see a fit trade wise since their farm system is almost as depleted of talent as ours and players like D. Smith and J.D. Davis aren’t the type of players who have the potential to significantly move the needle which is what Stearns would need to pull the trigger.
For example, the Twins would have to offer up something along the lines of: Brusdar Graterol, Trevor Larnach and Edwar Colina. So basically a pitcher with frontline potential, good positional prospect and a lottery ticket.
pdxbrewcrew
No, no, no. A thousand times no for Bum. He would not fit on the team, personality wise. Bum would make the Brewers worse.
brewcrew08
Please tell me you didn’t just say MadBum would make a team worse? Now that’s just not true lol
pdxbrewcrew
Yes, he would make the TEAM worse. His personality doesn’t match the team. Just because team chemistry can’t be measured by an algorithm doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. And nobody can convince me that chemistry didn’t factor in how they’ve done the last two years. Without the chemistry they had, the Brewers don’t make the playoffs.
Bum doesn’t fit. Ruins team chemistry. Team does worse.
bdpecore
I’ve never read anything related to MadBum being a clubhouse cancer and actually have heard the opposite. But talent wise, he would definitely be an upgrade over any starter we had last season outside of Woodruff.
BrewCrew82
You do realize the Brewers cut a fair portion of their roster to bring in new blood right? The only chemistry that is left is maybe the outfield chemistry and Arcia/Hiura if they start Arcia. Pitching is going to have very little chemistry especially after acquiring Narvarez.
pdxbrewcrew
It’s not about him being a clubhouse cancer or not being good. Its simply a square peg/round hole thing. I’m a firm believer that without the chemistry the team had, they don’t make the playoffs these last two years. Bum’s personality seems like it would disrupt that chemistry.
Do you think he would be in whatever follow up to the “Mean Girls” video they make? I can’t picture that.
bigdaddyhacks
He’s a great dude, we loved him in Seattle. Great clubhouse guy too.
bean54446
Adam hill and a draft pick the brewers24th best prospect
blwcubsblw
Stearns robbed them….
lannibal2000
The M’s haven’t used their draft pick yet so you can’t really say that. Next year’s draft is looking pretty nice so I can see where the M’s are coming from with wanting to acquire another draft pick.
CrewBrew
Wow, Slinglin Stearns robbed this one. Nice get.
kleppy12
I thought you could only trade picks during the season?
augold5
Comp picks have different rules
$crewBaLL
Dealing Dave with a trade rape
lannibal2000
The draft pick could be the deciding factor especially with one of the best draft classes in a while next season.
bean54446
It’s the70th pick….
lannibal2000
The draft had produced talent from various draft rounds. It’s clearly what Dipoto wanted and might possibly already have a pool of guys they may think will glfall to them at that pick so it made it easy to pull the trigger on the deal
ayrbhoy
You might want to wait until you see Narvaez try to throw out a runner at 2B or handle a breaking ball low and inside before you pass judgement
$crewBaLL
i can taste your saltiness
Priggs89
He’s not wrong.
ayrbhoy
Saltiness-YW dude. It’s good for you in low doses, you literally cannot survive w/o sodium;)
krillin89
Wow. Nice deal for the Brewers
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Wow, seems like a really light return for Seattle. Looking at Hill’s stats, and they are, well, they are not good. There’s nothing there to indicate he projects better either.
Wow, what was Dipoto thinking? Does he just freak out and make random trades if he goes 30 days without making one?
gbp4ever
He cut about $3 million off the payroll trading him to Milwaukee.
gbp4ever
Guy might be a defensive black hole but this team needs another bat bad. Can deal with anyone being able to run against this guy.
DarkSide830
yikes, that’s all?
stan lee the manly
Ya this seems like almost nothing for him. I can’t believe there’s not more interest with how many teams need a catcher.
bean54446
Trader sterns is not done he still has bullets in the barrel yes the lost. A lot but that’s 2 real good trades already
iml12
Wow. Great steal for the Brewers. These other teams realize they can say no to the Brewers, right?
bdpecore
Good deal for both clubs. Dipoto adds another high draft pick to continue rebuilding the farm system and the Brewers get a cheap offensive replacement for Grandal who perfectly compliments Pina.
54scooterb
Next catcher on the move? What team is the best fit, both in need and returning package offer for Willson Contreras?
Angels? Padres? Astros? Marlins? Somebody else?
bloomquist4hof
So the Mariners trade a backup catcher for a live arm middle relief candidate and a lottery ticket prospect.
bdpecore
Back up catcher? He was the primary catcher for Seattle and easily one of the top 5 offensive catchers in the league last season. Yes his defense is bad but he has shown improvement since entering the league and his bat clearly outweighs his deficiencies behind the plate.
bloomquist4hof
It’s not so clear to me that his offense makes up for his defensive issues or that this offense is as great going forward as some people think. Hes been above average bat but his skills indicate more average with the bat going forward. That would be great for even a somewhat mediocre defensive catcher but hes probably worse than that. Imo at least.
brewcrew08
His defensive game is improving and the Brewers have one of the best coaches at developing catchers. Even if his power was a fluke his average and on base skills are not. You can’t teach his ability to know a strike zone. Not to mention playing in miller will only help his power stay around 20
bdpecore
Fangraphs rated him at 10.6 offensively and -8.6 defensively amounting to a fWAR of 1.8 which is better than every free agent catcher other than Grandal (5.2) and Chirinos (2.3). He provided more value than starters like d’Arnuad and Castro (both 1.6).
dshires4
Awful trade for Seattle. There’s nothing wrong with being dead set on dealing a guy from a position of strength in a weak market. But Seattle really missed the mark on the return. Awful.
bush1
The draft pick isn’t worthless
dshires4
I never said it was.
Cheeseman Forever
A Cubs fan complaining about “competitive imbalance”? Cry me a river…
madjack117
Underwhelming trade, bad for the Mariners. Should have waited until the winter meetings, would’ve got much more for him
CrewBrew
Wonder if the Brewers go after a lefty first basemen to maybe platoon with Nottingham at first? When is Nottingham going to get a shot? Ive been hearing about this kid for a while now.
Maybe Greg Bird? If he stays healthy, his swing would be perfect for Miller Park. I think Bird would be a sleeper pickup for some team.
JaredK38
While I am not pumped about this deal. Lets not forget that draft pick might be the best part of this trade. Remember just last year we were able to grab Isaiah Campbell at 76
bush1
The draft pick is what the deal is all about. Nothing else even matters
brewcrew08
Pretty sure Narveáz matters the most here. Even if the draft pick does prove to be a good one it will be 3-5 years before they even make an impact on the big league club
Vin Scully
This is a good pickup by the Brew Crew. Grandal is not Carlton Fisk or Johnny Bench. He is a flawed and very expensive player. This is a good replacement for Grandal.
bush1
Especially considering all they had to do was a trade a free competitive pick that was given to them for doing nothing other than being cheap
AaronAngst
Hmmm. Your understanding of the competitive balance process seems to be lacking.
maximumvelocity
If you think Grandal is flawed, wait till you see Omar try to backhand breaking balls or let his glove jerk out of the strike zone on sliders. Or fail to score from first on a double in the gap.
ronc52
I’m a huge supporter of what Dipoto is up to with reshaping the Mariners roster, but he’s off to a poor start this off season. He was taken to the woodshed in this trade. Merry Christmas Brewers.
bush1
He wanted the draft pick. It’s better than worthless prospects
ronc52
I’m just saying I think Omar was worth more than this. Finding a catcher who can hit like he does should demand more in return.
Slothcliff Hokum
It seems to me that either Omar Narvaez or the non-tendered Domingo Santana would have been a better DH for next season or three than Daniel Vogelbach. Is DH something for which they need to be cultivating a prospect (or prospects)? I don’t think so. Vogelbach is younger, but he’s pretty much a DH-only… which of course means he would bring very little back in a trade… not that they got much for Narvaez, but it’s probably more than they would have gotten for Vogie. Narvaez is a catcher who can hit, but he isn’t a very good catcher and I think he’s more suited to a DH role in the long term. Thus the return is disappointing but I wasn’t expecting a lot more than what they got.
bledrules
Reds front office went back to sleep after seeing Wheeler go to the Phillies
bush1
Must be nice to have “competitive balance pick” that you can get for free and use as currency to bring back talent. Really fair MLB….
Priggs89
One of the highest payrolls in the league and you’re concerned about the ~70th draft pick? I’m fairly certain the Brewers would give up the 70th draft pick for the ability to add $100M to the payroll every year. Maybe the Cubs should just stop wasting all their resources on bad free agents. That’s what you should be concerned about.
bush1
The Cubs have been wasting all their money on bad free agents because they have to since they don’t get free picks such as this. Adding a 2nd round pick every yr is waaaay bigger of a deal than you are making it to be. Maybe an owner shouldn’t own a team unless he’s willing to spend more than some of the jokester owners.
David Walkush
prigg is right, the brewers would gladly trade a 2nd round pick every year for $100,000,000 more in payroll. take the L bush
bush1
Get an owner whose not profiting and cares more about winning then
Priggs89
The Cubs have been wasting their money on bad free agents because their decision makers are horrible at picking free agents and have traded away young, impact talent for mediocre veterans.
They struck gold on a couple trades in the beginning of their rebuild (and had KB fall into their laps because the Astros stupidly drafted for need, not talent), but they have fallen in love with their own mediocre players and done a mediocre job of maximizing their assets (players/prospects/money) since.
Priggs89
“Get an owner whose not profiting and cares more about winning then”
So you want a complete moron to run the organization? I wish MLB would open their books to the public. I’d happily be willing to bet a significant amount of teams, including Milwaukee, spend a higher percentage of their revenue on payroll than the big market teams.
bush1
I think the Cubs have done a lot of idiotic things. I’m not disagreeing with that at all. They’ve drafted and developed horribly the last 5 years. I will say making the playoffs 4 straight years, drafting late, and not getting comp picks have hurt too.
But I stand by my original point drafting and development is way more important than the ability to spend. Preferably a team would have both like the Yankees, Dodgers, and Astros.
bush1
“So you want a complete moron to run the organization” what? I’m simply saying that if your the owner of an MLB team the ability to spend and keep up to at least an average level should be part of it, and it’s hard to feel sorry for any billionaire owner.
Priggs89
Here’s what you’re not understanding – nobody is saying that spending money is more important than drafting & devolving talent. Drafting & developing talent is CLEARLY the most important aspect when putting together a winning baseball team.
Here’s what’s actually being said – ONE extra draft pick in between the second and third rounds is significantly less valuable than the difference in yearly payroll between the Cubs/Dodgers/Red Sox/Yankees and the small/average market teams.
So again, if the Cubs GM wanted to trade ~$100M this year for the ~70th pick in the MLB draft, I’m sure the Brewers would be cool with it.
In regards to your other comment, no businessman with half a brain is owning a MLB franchise and operating it at a loss. And no, I don’t feel bad for the billionaire owners. Just pointing out the fact that these big market/payroll teams aren’t spending money out of pocket; they’re spending more because they make more, which is a direct benefit of being a big market team.
bush1
I get that any smart business man won’t want to take a loss on a MLB team. But with the rise in value every yr of MLB teams they could always sell and profit. Yeah, we won’t know for sure until the books are opened. But it’s been proven for fact that the Pirates owner has to
Profit at least $25 million a yr no matter what. I have my doubts that all these teams with crap payrolls are really struggling as much as they’d like the public to believe. That’s fairly obvious.
bush1
Yes, the 70th pick is worth less than the $100 million in payroll number you picked out, but it’s just an example and getting these free picks is more incentive for tanking, which already is a huge issue. The Tigers are solely getting their pick because of tanking. Clearly, we aren’t going to agree on this but it’s not as cut and dry as your making it out either.
stan lee the manly
Must be nice to have more than twice the revenue streams as small market teams…
bush1
All it does is give you the ability to spend money on dumb contracts. Anyone who know about baseball knows that drafting and development is Everything, and getting additional 2Nd round picks yearly is a big deal.
stan lee the manly
“All it does.” Come on man. A high revenue lets you pursue impact players like Rendon and Scherzer and Cole and Harper, etc without worrying about one bad contract ruining your chances of competing for the next 5-10 years. Those caliber players aren’t even on the small markets radars. Yes sometimes they don’t work out, but sometimes there are a lot of very, very good years left in those players. The competitive pick is there strictly because this gives such an advantage to large-market teams. Every single small market team would give up there pick for the increased revenue. Every darn one.
bush1
All the guys you listed will be signed at awful and expensive deals that are eventual mistakes. So I stand by my point drafting is more important
stan lee the manly
That’s the key word there though. EVENTUAL mistakes. And how many years of contending does signing a superstar at the age of 27 give to these teams? That’s exponentially more valuable than an extra lottery ticket.
You are going to say with a straight face that the ability to sign Mookie Betts next year is LESS VALUABLE than the number 70 overall pick in the draft? We are getting into Harper’s favorite place, this is clown territory bro.
bush1
Well signing Betts to a $380 million contract and the restrictions with doing other things may have massive negative value, which is why most teams wouldn’t do it. So it’s all relative. Make no mistake, the Stanton contract is blocking the Yankees from improving their team in many other ways, even if they sign Cole. Betts is obviously great but after a certain point even a superstars deal becomes negative value. So yes it’s possible the 70th pick has more value than Betts on a 10 yr 380 deal for sure, regardless how “rich” the franchise is.
bdpecore
It also allows teams to extend/resign more homegrown talent when they prove themselves worthy where as small market teams who know they cannot afford to invest 25-30% of their total payroll to one player are forced to let them walk and receive a draft pick from the signing team or trade them beforehand in an attempt to retool. Also larger teams have more room for error when making a bad deal.
bdpecore
Here’s a good article which details every Competitive Balance Pick made from the begin up until they allowed teams to trade them in 2019. The list isn’t stellar on the talent which has been drafted with these picks. Definitely not nearly as valueable as having another $100MM to spend each year.
calltothepen.com/2018/12/19/mlb-draft-competitive-…
bush1
I’m not saying that having and spending money is a bad thing at all. But getting free draft picks is incentive to spend less no matter how you dice it, that’s my point.
stan lee the manly
You are changing your point. It started as competitive draft picks are not fair to large market teams, then it was a competitive draft pick is more valuable than large-market revenue, now its getting draft picks makes you spend less.
I strongly disagree with all three points. For the last one, having less revenue makes you spend less. Having less revenue also gets you an additional pick, but losing that pick will not make teams spend more.
augold5
If the extra pick is so much more important than the extra 100M in payroll, then how come the teams with the highest payrolls have more sustained success than the teams that receive the comp pick?
bush1
As I said obviously one pick around 70 clearly isn’t worth less than $100 million in payroll. But the teams not spending aren’t as broke and struggling as they’d like the public to think.
bush1
*clearly isn’t worth more than $100 mill in payroll
augold5
Do you have facts behind this?
RollieCG4
Cubs spent 90 mill on the starting 5 last year….small market teams are not able to do that. Period.
Cheeseman Forever
A bargain in terms of Narvaez’s salary and in terms of what the Brewers gave up. Sounds like his defense will need a lot of work during the off-season, but it’s doable. Remember Grandal had his own defensive struggles in the 2018 post-season but came around nicely for the Crew last year.
This also preserves the money that the Brewers really need to spend on starting pitching. (The core of a good bullpen is in place with Hader, Suter, Wahl and Knebel — both hurt last year.) Never underestimate Stearns’s ability to find value and put a competitive team on the field.
CrewBrew
Most of us true fans did not panic when all the moves were made the last two weeks. He is not a big free agent spender, never was. He finds these young, controllable guys on other clubs and trades for them, and they usually become huge contributors to the team. Im curious at what he does at the corner infield positions in the next few weeks.
People need to stop playing GM and saying everything is a disaster in early December. They have a ton of money to spend, a ton of holes to fill, and I for one am very excited to see what arms he brings in.
The same people that complain about him letting go of Guerra/Davies/Nelson/Anderson are the same ones that were complaining during the season watching them barely get outs. Some people are never satisfied.
beerncheese
I agree Cheeseman and crew brew. I am enjoying watching this play out over the ENTIRE offseason. I was surprised by how many guys Stearns cut loose but I think I get it; bid goodby to middle of the road or marginal guys and look for upgrades. And regarding Moose and Grandal, I am glad crew did not outbid the Sox and Braves. That money can be better used elsewhere and maybe we can bring back Nelson and Guerra on smaller deals or minor league deals. I hope we can because I like Guerra as a multi inning bullpen piece and Nelson for a possible comeback.
The guy I really want back is Jordan Lyles. I think he could be a solid mid rotation pitcher. He and Woodruff would be a good beginning to a rotation, but more work to be done. Lyles might end up being more expensive than the experts thought when you look at the deals Gibson and Pomeranz signed.
RollieCG4
Boom. Spot on Crew
Socrates Curveball
Great deal for rebuilding Mariners. Hill is a throw in flyer bullpen piece but the competitive balance pick will add over $1M to their 2020 draft pool.
DieHardMsFan
Solid trade for the M’s. By all accounts it is a deep draft and having an extra pick and an extra 850-1MM to sign someone should bolster our farm. Hitting on a draft pick is another story but the more ammo you have the higher your chance are to hit something.
At the end of the day Navarez won’t be here in two years when we should be competitive and getting a lottery ticket with some upside and a draft pick is completely fine.
Good luck to Omar and I think he should hit well in that ballpark.
Karlander
Plenty of upside in this acquisition . I think he and Manny will combine for 20+ homers and 65 + RBIs and that won’t be a bad result after losing Grandal
davemlaw
With improved defense this is a steal by the Brewers.
Just when fans were worried about this team selling off their assets they make a move like this. Very nice.
Phiilies2020
Nice add for the Brew Crew. Fair but unspectacular return for the M’s. Thought for sure d’Arnaud was going to end up in Milwaukee due to their obvious need and proximity to Canada. Only 3 for 8 in the contest so far!
azjack68
When the Brewers signed Grandal, all we heard is what a hack he was behind the plate. By mid-season he was an all-star and the best hitting catcher in baseball. Never heard a word about his defense again. If Narvaez is shaky behind the plate WHO CARES.
Priggs89
Yeah, except the difference is Grandal was never actually a hack behind the plate… He made a couple mistakes in the playoffs and everyone on here overreacted instead of looking at his total body of work. Grandal has been a top tier catcher for a long time.
But you’re right. If Narvaez rakes, nobody will care about his defense.
hamelin4mvp
All true, Priggs.
throwinched10
Omar has the same OPS+ as Gary Sanchez over the last 3 seasons. We will have to wait and see who the Mariners get with the Competitive Balance Pick and how their career turns out, but at this point it’s a big win for the Brewers. I also wouldn’t sleep on Hill since he’s only 23.
Gigorilla
It is a decent start, and looks like a platoon. Lets see what the boy wonder does next — I say bring back Domingo.
throwinched10
The Brewers should look for a short and quick rebuild. Trade any player on the 25 man roster except for Yelich, Hiura, Urias, Narvaez, and Woodruff. At this point, the Cubs, Cardinals, and Reds look to be ahead of them in the Central.
mlbfan
The return looks low for the M;s. Dipoto needs to make a solid hit on the draft pick to get equal value.
Tom200020
Interesting deal on Mariners part but was all about draft pick – interesting to see who they take in rule 5 draft