The Cubs have reportedly been in fervent pursuit of trade possibilities, exploring deals involving much of their roster — including Kris Bryant. There are some wrinkles to structuring a deal for the superstar third baseman, as well as some new market developments of note. In particular, the Nationals have approached the Cubs to discuss Bryant, according to Jon Morosi of MLB.com.
The Cubs are still awaiting resolution on a service-time grievance filed by Bryant and his representatives, despite the fact that a hearing was held in late October. Speaking to The Athletic’s Sahadev Sharma and other reporters at the Winter Meetings, Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein said he felt the ruling is “not going to be more than a couple weeks away,” though he admitted some frustration that the matter has yet to be decided.
That said, Epstein stated the team is “operating with what our understanding of what the likely outcome will be and moving forward that way,” which would hint that the Cubs are confident that Bryant will remain under team control through the 2021 season. A ruling in the other direction, which would grant Bryant free agency after the 2020 season, would certainly count as a surprise, and one with a major impact on Chicago’s future roster maneuverings.
Needless to say, the length of Bryant’s remaining service time would have a giant impact on what the Wrigleyville side would receive back in a trade, though the third base market joins the delayed grievance ruling as the biggest factors in any trade plans the Cubs might have for Bryant. Sharma notes that the Cubs are figuring that teams who miss out on Anthony Rendon or Josh Donaldson could come calling about Bryant, which would leave Chicago discussing Bryant with at least three of such teams as the Dodgers, Braves, Rangers, Phillies, and Nationals. Of that group, the Cubs would most likely be interested in the prospect-deep Atlanta or Los Angeles farm systems. Sharma also wonders if Chicago could also shop Bryant to the Padres (another club with a stacked farm system) as an outfielder, since San Diego is set at the corner infield spots with Manny Machado and Eric Hosmer.
In terms of specific potential landing spots, it seems we’re mostly dealing with informed speculation and hypotheticals. But we’re also beginning to see indications of actual trade talks. The Nationals’ reported expression of interest is certainly intriguing, though it may be difficult for the D.C. organization to structure a deal. The club is not ruling out a return from Rendon and has also shown interest in Donaldson. But adding another monster deal to bring back Rendon would be tough to do. And Donaldson is said to be heading for a fourth guaranteed year with widespread interest. Under the circumstances, the Nats are surely not the only team to have made contact regarding Bryant. Jon Heyman of MLB Network noted yesterday on Twitter that the Braves and Phillies “could be a fit,” though it’s not clear whether that suggestive phrasing was indicative of dialogue between the organizations.
I hope he wins his case, setting the stage for other young stars to do the same. Of course, I can not knock the cubs for holding him back; anyone would do the same. My guess though, is the Cubs come out victorious
Totally agree with every word.
Just because one can do something doesnt mean you should. It is short sighted and only breed bad blood.
I hope KB wins, and Union should 100% rectify service time manipulation in next CBA.
They should look into it, but how do they address looking backwards. There are a lot of young players now that we’re held back a month or two due to that reason. Nearly every young player 20-24 playing now went through that to extend service time.
This is pretty much the reason why I don’t think MLB will rule in favor of Bryant. They don’t want every other player who had service time manipulated filing a grievance immediately after. They should just address it in the next CBA.
It should be addressed in the new CBA for sure. But for now what the Cubs did was allowed for in the collectively bargained for agreement.
Almost impossible to rectify this looking backwards. And the Cubs have the injury that occurred to the 3rd baseman he replaced to fall back on as well. The union will need to address it in the next CBA.
How exactly do they address it, though? No matter where you put the deadline, there are going to be cases where teams will be able to manipulate it to their advantage for certain players. That’s just the nature of a graduation system where the control is entirely one-sided. You also can’t change that level of control, as it’s not like you can put the decision as to when a player gets called up (and sometimes sent back down) partly in the hands of the players themselves or a third party.
It also does not happen to every young player. Many receive a cup of coffee the previous September (or sometimes even earlier as a temporary injury replacement). Even among those who have yet to make their Major League debuts, there are still cases like Fernando Tatis Jr., Jordan Hicks, and (looking way back) Albert Pujols who made their teams out of Spring Training and were never sent back down.
Easy solution. A player drafted or signed (internationally) after a specific date is subject to the new terms. Anyone prior falls under the old plan.
The problem would be the player’s union approving that.
How can the union, agent, or arbitrator make assumptions on a front offices intentions? What may seem obvious to a fan, may not be to a franchise.
Yes, Bryant hit 9 HRs in ’15 spring training, but that is a lot different than games that matter. Pitchers are tinkering with things, getting their arm stretched out, and not concerned about the game situation. Many of the at-bats are against pitchers who may never make a 25-man roster.
How can we definitively say the Cubs weren’t legitimately concerned about his defense at the time?
A lot of people seem to forget that Bryant struggled when he was first called up. He also struckout 199 times that season. Cubs saved him from going over 200, and no matter how you slice it, that is not something anyone would want in their stats.
Was the service time in the Cubs head at the time? Probably. But I don’t see how it can be proved, especially when the Cubs have these facts to fall back on.
I would be interested in watching an edited half hour documentary following this process through. This should have taken two days max to decide.
So you want an arbitrator deciding the 25 man roster?
mlb IS the owners. No way KB wins this.
They did nothing wrong. Omg 10 extra days In the minors. Big deal. Bryant even said he knew this was a business. And he basically dropped it. Boras did not
No, you are wrong. If Bryant dropped it, it would be dropped. Boras is not allowed to make decisions for his clients. That is not how this works.
Boras makes alot of decisions for his clients. which hes like 98/2 for wanting extensions. Only Altuve and Strasburg twice have signed extensions
Technically, you are correct Goat.
Agents don’t make the “final decision”
But players hire agents because they trust them to do whatever it takes to represent them….”better than they could represent themselves”
So Boras may have not “decided” to file this claim, but I’d sure bet the house that “He Talked KB Into It”.
He’s a Cancer.
looking out for his clients is now considered a cancer… interesting.
OMG 1 more full year of owner control. If he was allowed to turn a free agent 10 days into the next season then it would be okay.
Bryant was held down for defensive improvement. Does 10 days really allow trims for him to improve?
I hope he loses. Then, the MLBPA learns how to negotiate for the younger generation, not the 35+ that they’re catering to.
@vtncsc wtf are you talking about? Majority of the membership is under 35, and approved this CBA.
There’s no reason he should win. It was within the rules for the Cubs to do what they did.
It would be interesting to see if the Nationals are willing to part ways with Carter Kiebom as the main piece for Bryant.
Depends on whether there’s two years of control and if they manage somehow to keep Rendon. Assuming yes and no, respectively, I would if I were the Nationals. He’s their best chance of keeping that level of roster together. Scherzer is getting older, so I’d say go for it hard while you can. With the crazy money the Phillies are spending and the Braves young talent coming up, I don’t know if they’ll have a good chance to even make the playoffs three years from now.
Whether it is one or two years of control the Cubs will absolutely demand Kiebom be in any trade. The only question is whether the Nationals bother to bid if it is just one year of control.
Not for one year of Bryant! Bryant is going to most likely lose his grievance case since the rules are what they are with the Union. Just expect huge changes after the 2021 season.
Absolutely for one year of Bryant. He’s a stinkin’ prospect. Bryant is going to put up 900 OPS and 130 OPS+ sure as the sun will rise. Whether they want to pay that price is up to them, but him alone does not get a deal done. Bryant is a proven commodity. He’s a career minor leaguer to date.
No way the Cubs get Kieboom from the gNats even for 2 years of Bryant. The Cubs are not trading from a position of strength so they won’t get a huge prospect.
Lol. The outside perspectives criticizing Cubs are popcorn worthy. Keep praying KB is set free.
does anybody find it funny that Theo is mad about waiting on MLB’s decision…kinda like they made Bryant wait to get to the pro’s
I’ll always side with the players but MLB players have it great. Imagine being in a league with a salary cap like every other major sport. These 7/8 year contracts for 200M plus wouldn’t happen nearly as often.
agreed Brewcrew…and also the MLB has the best retirement plan…The NFL is horrible
Being stuck making league minimum for 3 years sucks. For some guys those first few years are their prime, then through injury and age their play declines, esp if they didnt reach big leagues until 25 to 27. NVM the below minimum wage pay in minors.
Being stuck making $500,000-600,000 per year sucks? With the youth movement we are seeing more early 20’s players entering meaning they hit free agency at prime.
If you’re good enough to get the 200M plus deals like I was talking about you’re in the bigs way before 27. Not to mention baseball is the only sport who’s prime can truly reach well into your 30’s. There is no other sport even close to MLB when it comes to giving 30+ year olds 7-8-9 year deals.
This is the fan craziness. $500,000-600,000 sucks.
How bout the $1000 a month in the minors if you gotta be down there for 3-5 years
Then league minimum for 3 yrs
And pleas don’t anybody compare athletes to your own lives. They get paid because they are entertainers. They are not the same as the guy working at the 7-11 or Home Depot.
Bryant ONLY made 471,000 and 652,000 in 2015-16. Made over 1M in his 3rd year and then over 10M in his 4th year.
Trade him. He doesn’t want to be in Chicago. Boras is beyond greedy.
I agree the CBA needs to address the service time issue in the next contract but the Cubs should win the grievance. They used the loophole that was there, the players agreed to the contract.
Agree that too many people here are lost. In three years they make more than the average American makes in 30 years. If the union was really about all the players they’d be looking to up salaries for minor league players, up the minimum for MLB players even more and be willing to institute a hard cap on teams to avoid scenarios where one guy makes 30+M a year. .
@fox471 Yes, have to wonder how many people saying this ever pull out the coin to buy a (very expensive these days) ticket. Or is all that matters advanced stats and how your fantasy team performs?
Imagine having a job where are all of your food and traveling expenses are paid for as well while having your boss pay for a personal trainer, a nutritionist and a doctor.
The flip side is they’re getting paid a fraction of what they could earn on the open market.
You don’t have to imagine it. You shoulda took gym class instead of getting a doctors note asthma or picked up a guitar or learned a piano maybe tried out for the school play.
You act like there is nepotism and somebody just gave these guys jobs. They have been working their whole lives to get there.
I never skipped gym class in high school and have been very active my entire adult life, that’s where your stupidity kicked in. These baseball players get paid well to play a game to entertain people who watch it either in person or on tv while getting major perks like free meals to traveling expenses to benefits to a pension yet want more. I foresee a huge after this CBA is over in 2021.
A huge change or strike in the MLB after 2021.
Right. All these guys who have signed huge contracts are going to be dying to give away who knows how many of those monster paychecks because of a service time issue…
It’s possible that owners of the small market clubs are the ones who might cause a fuss if there is a change in the service time with controlling players.
Imagine all the minor league players with training, practice, games, more training, etc…they did a story with Bryant Gum on the HBO series. Basically your average grinder makes less than $3.00 an hour.
@moosedrool
No one forces them to stay in the minors dude. This is not unlike being an artist, you choose to pursue your dream and forego ‘normal’ life.
Karma!
Bryant and his agent have had every opportunity to sign an extension early on, buying out his arbitration years and probably 1/2 years after. They should’ve pursued that option earlier.
Jah, they should wait until ten days into the season to render a ruling
I wouldn’t mind seeing Bryant in a Phillies uniform. After all, him and Bryce are close friends.
Friendship doesn’t help the Cubs and the Phillies farm stinks out loud.
I was wondering when you were gonna slither out from the depths.
I dont see how he wins the case. As dirty as it was from the Cubs the call up date isn’t a neighborhood rule. It’s a set date and if you come after it they are good. It’s not if your within a day after it then they lose a year.
Feels like what could move them along is if he is traded to a new team, work out an extension to do away with the court battle.
Would love the Braves to still get him and extend him. Definitely me dreaming as the contract would be insane but still
The Braves did the exact same thing with Acuna. Was that dirty? Or is it only dirty when the Cubs did it?
And then they threw the largest ever pre-arb extension at Acuna.
But……Atlanta kept him in the minors until they gained an extra year of control. Same Thing
I’m not saying they did anything against the rules…….
“The Rules Are Horribly Slanted In That Direction” and until the Rules Are Changed……..Teams will be allowed to apply them to this situation. (and they should be…..the Union is to BLAME Here….Not The Owners)
Granted, teams have started to give out multi-year contracts to completely avoid the whole situation (including arbitration).
That’s Smart. Lock them up at reasonable prices and avoid the Emotional Drama Every Year.
The Cubs also tried to extend Bryant. He didn’t want to talk about it though. $200M+
That was a false report. They never offered any extension. They’re open to talks as long as it’s a fair offer. He’ll be 30 by the time he’s a free agent. He’s not getting a 10 year deal and he’ll get 40mil less than Arenado
It was widely reported he was offered a huge extension after 2016.
Nothing was ever offered just rumors.
Like the Cubs didn’t try to extend Bryant? They’ve made multiple offers to him. Boras, probably correctly, wants him to go the free agency route.
I get the challenge from Bryant’s perspective. There’s literally no risk and the upside is getting to make an extra 15 or 20 mm or whatever the market bears over his arb number.
It was not dirty. It was the rule the MLBPA agreed to
Vlad junior anybody? Seemingly just as flagrant…
This’ll all get totally torn down come the new bargaining agreement, but I bet Vlad junior’s agent is watching this closely…
I bet all agents are watching. From Acuna to Torres and all in between.
….Which is why we’ll all be SHOCKED if the League finds in favor of Bryant.
Precedent will be set, and the floodgates will open.
They HAVE to know this.
Yeah, do we really want arbitrators always deciding whether or not a prospect is good enough to get called up shortly before the service time deadline or if he needs to stay in minors longer? No matter where you put the deadline, there are always going to be questionable close calls on the matter.
@ Lanidrac – Agree totally. But maybe the all star break or maybe half of – i.e. 81 games over the course of a season?
But two weeks into a season is a nonsense isn’t it? Gives a front office/ownership the chance to make up any old bunch of cobblers…
Regardless it’s gone in the next agreement. Where the needle is set will be one of the many sticking points. Personally – and even as an A’s fan – I’d throw the whole luxury tax nonsense out of the window while we’re at it. It doesn’t benefit the players, the fans…
There’s an implied covenant of good faith in labor agreements. And MLB knows this, that’s why they come up with some “he has to work on D” BS excuse.
The Cubs also lost two third basemen that season prior to calling Bryant up (LaStella with a core injury, Olt HBP and broke his hand).
I don’t think anybody would argue that the Cubs not starting the season with Bryant was for any reason other than trying to get another year of control, but the fact that he came up so close to the line is a coincidence without which we wouldn’t even be talking about this.
Good point JB. Olt broke his hand or something and went on the DL for a long time the same day they called up Bryant. Olt had been the starting third baseman
LeStella broke his leg not hand.
He wouldn’t sign an extension with the new team either. He would test the free agent market. By then the Cubs will have about 120mil to spend. They can reunite. He loves Chicago, he loves the fans and has continued to say they have the best fans ever. Which is true.
Looks like the Bryzzo Souvenir Co. Is gonna close down pretty soon. Which sucks because Bryant and Rizzo are like brothers.
What do expect Bryant to say now?
“Chicago blows and Cubs fans are dumb and kind of ugly to boot. I can’t wait to leave this forsaken rat-infested hellhole.”
Wouldn’t be too smart.
He’d be dead on though!
If control is for two years, I’d love the Braves to go get KB and honestly wouldn’t care much about which prospects we deal to get him. And I think the cubs will ultimately want more pitching prospect than hitting, so although the cost will be high, I don’t think it will be something the Braves could reasonably afford in prospects capital. I’m sure either Pache or Waters will be wanted. I think based on the cubs profile they will be happy with Waters. Then throw in 3 solid pitching prospects. Or say Riley plus 2 pitching prospects. Again: this is the assumption the Braves would have 2 years of control.
2 years control of KB for Waters, Riley, Wright, Ynoa. You can pretty much mix and match pitching prospects to your liking on this deal, I’d be ok with it. Even if you rotate Riley out for a solid pitching prospect. I’d love to somehow keep Ian Anderson and Pache. Even Waters… but I’m attempting to be realistic here. :/
I agree as long as they can keep Pache are Waiters
I think there is a small chance we don’t need to give up either because of their need for pitching long term over hitting. Just my opinion. Of course, it will likely take at least one of them to make a deal especially if there is 2 years of control
I’d guess there is no way the Cubs do a deal with the Braves for two years of Bryant without one of those two guys in the package. You are not paying close attention to the Cubs and their farm system. They have a lot of good young pitchers who are 19-21. Not all of them will pan out. Not all of them have to. Marquez, Franklin, etc. Yes, they want pitching. But they also need position players. The weakest part of their farm system is power hitters. And their lineup right now is based entirely on power hitting with no real on base machines.
I pay close attention… most of those guys aren’t near MLB ready. Braves would obviously be offering beer mlb ready talent. I also disagree with you. I think their farm is pretty balanced. Their current mlb roster however is loaded with hitting talent. I’m suggesting the Braves would have to let go of at least 1 of Pache or Waters. But it wouldn’t shock me if they didn’t.
They asked for Mike Soroka, that was on Twitter.
I missed that… if Soroka is involved, goodbye. Young longer term cy young contender in exchange for 1-2 years of a former MVP. No sir. Not to mention we literally can’t afford to give up MLB pitching talent at the moment. We don’t even have a 5th starter locked.
Yesterday the Chicago Tribune mentioned a rumor about Max Freed.
Thata a good start. But it has to end just as good. Cant be Fried and 3 or 4 low level prospects and and everyone keeps saying Ender Inciarte for some reason.
I don’t think Inciarte is a guy they want due to how much he’s still owed. He’s probably a better CFer than Almora, but isn’t an upgrade at the plate.
They need a leadoff man more than anything. Other than pitching of course
Think through this a bit. If the Cubs take Inciarte back in a deal for Bryant it arguably ups their prospect take from the Braves even more. The Braves don’t “need” Inciarte. But if the Cubs take him and offer a replacement like Almora (he’ll make 1M this year or so) it lowers the expected $40M owed Bryant over the next two years. I could easily see this type of deal.
Bryant and Almora to the Braves
Fried, Inciarte, Waters, Anderson OR Wright and another prospect like Tarnok.
If that were to happen I could then see the Cubs shopping Quintana or Lester (while eating some of his salary) this off season. And also shopping Contreras.
For Bryant I think the Padres, Dodgers, Braves and Nats can all match up pretty well. The Phillies less so, but still possible. The Cubs, if they are serious about trading Bryant, should be waiting on the third base dominoes to fall while they kick the proverbial tires.
I use to think Ender would make a lot of sense for a deal also. But the more I thought about it, if they aren’t gonna want to pay KB on his reasonable deal, they aren’t gonna want to pay Ender on a deal that doesn’t exactly shave off a lot of payroll for a much worse hitter. But I do agree that in theory he makes sense as part of the package.
I just don’t see the Braves trading Fried either. I saw that article… it’s not really a rumor, it’s a guy doing what we are doing right now and throwing out hypotheticals. He’s way more likely to be traded than Mike Soroka … and if we had a good #5 or faith in someone else, then I’d pull the trigger. But that’s a young controllable talent for many years with really good stuff. And the Braves can’t really afford to lose those guys as much as they can afford not to have a KB.. prospect talent is more likely to be traded
I think, as others have noted, Theo would be better served to let the 3rd base market fully develop. It’s such a huge investment to sign Rendon and pretty damned expensive to get Donaldson. Bryant would be an immediate top fight talent (who can also play outfield) and would buy a team a couple more years to either develop a prospect or make a commitment to him.
This is a realistic change, Cubs may be looking for pitcher depth as well as MLB-ready players.
Great for the braves to get Bryant, but no team will trade for Bryant until after the arb hearing, unless its some sort of conditional ptbnl or two years of Bryant or one?
If the cubs should trade anyone it should be Hayward to an AL team.
The Dodgers and Rangers won’t be in on Bryant if they lose out on Rendon/Donaldson, so it’ll be interesting for the Cubs to play the waiting game or try to strike a deal. Nats, Phillies and Braves are all desperate for a 3B (in that order of desperation).
Yeah, I’m not thinking that is accurate. Texas and Chicago have apparently already had conversations about Bryant. If they miss out on Rendon and Donaldson, they’ll most certainly make an effort to get Bryant.
The Rangers have already asked about Bryant. So half of your statement is apparently off. So much of this hinges on where the 3B free agents fall. Windows to win don’t often stay open more than 3-4 years these days.
Braves are the only team that makes sense. Cubs need pitching, centerfield and a replacement for Bryant and the Braves have all three near or at mlb ready.
Does it feel like karma that part the reason ATL may land Kris Bryant is because they let Jason Heyward fly, fly away and get paid?
Umm. No
Not really
Not really. Plenty of teams make sense. Braves, Padres, Dodgers, Nats, Twins, Yankees and even others all of the requisite pieces to get something done. Question is how does each team view their own window, competition, etc. Keep in mind too that once a domino falls within the Cubs organization that changes how the Cubs view any other trade. So if Contreras or anyone else was traded before Bryant it likely changes the calculus.
Dodgers make a lot of sense. Bryant for Joc Pederson, Tony Gonsolin, Jeter Downs and DJ Peters.
Pederson is another lefty that can’t hit lefties, Cubs have enough part time crap already.
I was going to say pederson isn’t controllable,
pretty much a platoon and is making actual money, no way that happens. Dodgers would actually have to give up some good prospects not fringe guys
At this point with Rendon still an option, Cubs won’t get much for Bryant. Especially from big market clubs. But I have to imagine that the Dodgers would be hesitating to give up Lux. Maybe they’d be willing to throw in Dustin May in addition to Jeter Downs, Tony Gonsolin, DJ Peters… I think that’d be a fair offer. More for Bryant would be an overpay IMO.
Lol you’re gonna start with Joc Pederson? Theo will not only hang up he’ll delete their number. If he goes to LA it starts with Gavin Lux, Dustin May and Turner (Dodgers send cash for his entire contract)
Lux alone is plenty for two years of Bryant.
It would start with Lux it wouldnt be a straight up trade. That’s like lloyd trading a van for a scooter.
OK. I can see the Cubs taking back Pederson only on the grounds it ups the cost to the Dodgers in prospects. The Cubs have no real need for Pederson even if they lose Bryant. I’m not sure that is a good enough haul for Bryant either. I know Dodger fans don’t want to give up Lux, but I think conversations demand he be a part of the trade.
He’s not at the same level defensively, but they already have a left handed power bat in the outfield in Schwarber. For now, anyway…
He will be traded as soon as this case ends. What a crappy relationship to have with one of your stars.
The case between Bryant and the Cubs is much more about setting president than any actual hard feelings between the two camps. I this is much more about MLBPA vs. ownership than Cubs vs Bryant.
*Precedent?
Probably either an auto-correct or using a voice-typing option (mine always types something different than what I say…..LOL)
He gone
Players should be just as mad at the union for agreeing to this in the first place. What the Cubs (and other teams) have done isn’t in good faith, but once given the right, did anyone really expect them to do anything except manipulate it to their best interests? Players manipulate contracts to their best interests, too. The way to fight this is for top players to not sign with teams that do this or wait for the next CBA. Crying about something both sides agreed to because the players didn’t see the downside is stupid.
The implications will be potentially larger if found in favor of Bryant. Played that have since been traded file grievances against their old teams. Teams that traded for them losing a year’s control after trades took place? I don’t see MLB siding with Bryant in a way he becomes FA after this season.
Why are the Cubs so hell bent on trading Bryant? This is a guy they should be extending on a market setting deal. Bryant must really hate that organization or somebody in it. It appears Bryant has told them or the Cubs believe there is no chance he will ever sign an extension or resign in FA with them under any circumstances? Cubs will be a much worse team next season if they move him.
IMO i think he wants out of Chicago. I dont blame him.
Agreed. It’d have to be a massive overpay to get him to stay at this point.
Its a damaged relationship. Any player that files a grievance with the team clearly has some deep seeded issues with the way the Cubs handled the situation.
Not a cubs fan, but i say trade him, and get a boat load of young kids back. Cubs, like the Brewers, have a very depleted farm system.
Braves seem like a good fit.
The grievance was filed at the urging of the MLBPA. He was the first player subject to this rule manipulation, and he is a former ROY, MVP, and WS Champion. Who better to represent the players in this fight than someone as well known as KB? Getting him to file the grievance was a sure bet to keep this story in the media, which helps the union’s leverage.
Its not a damaged relationship at all. Its just business from both sides. If the Cubs offer enough money he will be happy to resign but can they agree in the amount of money? With two years control (as of now) Bryant is really in a position to ask for what he thinks is his worth as prices keep going up so there would be no urgency on Bryants side to ink an extension.
You are absolutely wrong. He doesn’t want “out of Chicago”. Epstein and Bryant’s relationship has not been damaged. They’re both on the record saying that. The hindrance in resigning him is about Boras. They offered him a huge extension a year or two ago and he passed.
He can’t be the first player manipulated this way. The rule has been around for decades, so there have to be other cases. Bryant may just well be the most decorated example who didn’t sign an early career extension, though, which is why he’s the poster boy for it, but almost certainly not the first.
Haha very funny Brew Crew. No Bryant does not want out of Chicago but he does want a huge contract and if the Cubs are not willing to pay it from his viewpoint or from the Cubs viewpoint if the amount is more than they are willing to go then yea he will be a free agent.
So even if the Cubs win the grievance they can try to extend him but Bryant and Boras like to be free agents and test the market that way thus the Cubs will have to consider trading him.
He just wants out of the lowly Cubbies – choke team of the decade.
Bryant would welcome a trade to the White Sox but we already have Moncada!
Yeah, I mean the White Sox have only seven losing seasons in a row and draw as well as some AAA teams.
And here come the White Sox ankle biters.
Next season, yes, but if they’re granted two years of control as I expect, the trade value will be high and they can start gearing up for another run while saving some money. Overall, it’s better for them given the difficulty of extending him.
They simply do not have enough money to throw around and extend all of the “core” players – Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Contreras, Schwarber. All of their contracts are up after 2021 (Contreras 2022) and they need to get value in return on one or two of them this off season.
The farm system is basically completely depleted minus a couple guys who have a chance to make a real impact.There is a need to replenish that a little bit. This is the time to do that.
I am OK if they are not true contenders in 2020 if that means getting top value prospects in return for Bryant. If they did business with a team like Atlanta then they could get guys back that are near or already ML ready. This could put them back in position to contend as soon as 2021. And for me personally, I am not a fan of giving out a $300+ million contract to a guy who will be 29 at that time. I would have extended him back in 2017 if I was going to give out the massive contract so you could have gotten two more years in his 20’s and not 30’s. He does also have somewhat of an injury history to consider.
I would extend Baez and Rizzo and trade Bryant. Contreras I would just let him play out the final three years if you do not trade him.
They have tried to extend him. He turned it down. He’s a valuable trade asset. They have to make choices. Rizzo, Bryant, Contreras, Schwarber and Baez are all going to be FA in 2021 or 2022. Something has to give.
There is one thing people are missing. Bryant is an incredible athlete. He can play corner outfield and first base as well as third. Cubs trade talks won’t be limited to teams that need third baseman.
Yankees will get him
He needs to be on the Yankees.
No thank you…. how many third baseman do they need? He’s not as good as many think, and we truly need pitching.
Bryant would be a clear upgrade over Urshela or Andjuar. I could see a deal of Deivi Garcia, Estevan Florial, Miguel Andjuar/Ursela for Bryant.
Yeah, actually, I would take that. He would be an upgrade, but they need pitching and I don’t see them spending the money Bryant would require, but hey, you never know. And note that they have Dominguez they may actually part with Florial
Yankees have no one the Cubs want. They have a worse farm than the cubs.
Not so sure about that. Cubs have holes, Yankees have additional players; seems like it could work. Cubbies are losing Costellanos and possibly Bryant if they trade, so they need people to take those positions. I’m not intimately familiar with their farm guys but I don’t think they have MLB ready guys to step right in, do they?
If they trade Bryant, they may sign Castellanos.
They should sign Castellanos if they dont trade him. They have 55mil off the books. The ownership is just cheap.
Wrek, you keep repeating that the Cubs have $55MM coming off the books. What you neglect to mention is that over their current 40-man roster, they have just under $219MM ON the books for 2020. The facts are at Cot’s. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1He7WB2TXeoGRjWmS3-…
Those figures are based on estimates of the arbitration awards expected for Bryant, Baez, Schwarber, Contreras and a few other lesser lights. “Money off the books” and revenue from the new tv venture were said to be the formula for more FA spending his year, but looking at what the Cubs are getting for the $210MM still on he books and the fact that amount is over the luxury tax for 2020, it will be trades or nothing this off-season.
The Cubs should accept a trade for him only if it’s a massive overpay.
If he wants out of Chicago, teams aren’t going to overpay.
Even if he wanted out of Chicago it has no effect on his trade value. His trade value is only effected by years of control remaining. One year or two. Thats it.
Well there could be a situation where he simply doesn’t want to play for Chicago. So Chicago can keep paying him to sit on the bench or trade him. I don’t this is likely, but it’s certainly possible. In this unlikely case, Chicago may not get top value.
If Bryant is still with the Cubs next season, for what logical reason would he be on the bench?
Teams will pay. Don’t kid yourself. They want to win. And more than one team that thinks they can get over the hump this year will want Kris Bryant.
Kb to Phillies, dodgers or Braves could put them over the top. One, two or maybe all three are going to miss out on Donaldson and rendon. And quite frankly I’d rather have 2 years of Bryant over 4 years of aging Donaldson. Rendon could easily be in Texas next year. It should get interesting.
Not going to be a massive overpay, he is a great player but he also costs a lot via Arbitration with either 1 or 2 years left. Definitely get a few top prospects but nothing ridiculous.
2 years of Bryant in his prime is going to cost a haul. Plus whatever team gets his isn’t saddled with a massive long term contract.
Its gonna be at least 3 for 1 for at most 5 for one.
If they lose Bryant they have a HUGE hole in the lineup and they still have a ton of holes to fill in both starting pitcher/s and relief. They have a massive payroll even without Bryant. They have a bottom 3 farm system… cubs are sooo screwed it’s unreal.
I’ve been predicting this for a couple of years only to be ridiculed here post after post. I guess My thinking is so far ahead of others here.
Actually you have been saying that for awhile.
Because no one is listening to your Cardinal ‘homer’ rants. It’s old and boring.
They no longer have a bottom three farm system. It is not a top half system, but their farm system has a lot of depth in the lower levels. They trade Bryant and get two top 100’s as part of the haul they will be a Top 10 system immediately. Brennan Davis, Amaya, Marquez, Hoerner, Franklin, etc. Their cupboard is no longer bare. Their problem is the really well regarded prospects are not going to help in 2020 save for maybe Hoerner.
I’d imagine the goal of trading Bryant would be filling those holes with young controllable talent.
For Cub fans who watched him everyday… How was his D in rf? Metrics are lukewarm, but he is obviously better than Castellanos. Is he passable?
As a White Sox fan, I wouldn’t want him. Great hitter, sure, but significantly more expensive than Castellanos will be and that money could be spent on the bullpen or helping to fill the DH spot. More importantly, the cost in prospects would be high and I don’t think it’s smart to move prospects you get 6-7 years of control over for a guy you have 2 years of control over, especially when you’re not a true contender for one of those years.
Yeah – without knowing what it would take, I’m split. On the one hand, love his bat and getting 2 years would make it worth it for me. Completely depends on who the Sox would have to give. Vaughn, Madrigal and Robert are obviously off the table, but I’m not sure if anyone else is. Could the Sox package enough with what’s left to make it work without depleting the farm further? Not sure.
For example – I saw a mock trade for 1 year of Betts that included Basabe, Dunning and Lopez. 2 years of Bryant would take more.
BTW – I don’t think they need to fill the DH spot. With Abreu, Collins, Mercedes, Grandal and McCann, they are fine there. In addition, they have a bunch of guys in the minors who could fill that slot if any of them progress. They need to focus on RF and 2 SP.
From the White Sox perspective I agree he is not a fit assuming he will not sign an extension which as of now he would be expected to test free agency be it in one year or two so not worth the prospects and money it would cost the White Sox.
You think Castellanos isn’t going to get a contract that pays him 15-20M a year for 3-4 years? Good one. Bryant is not going to be much more expensive.
Casty is looking at 5-6 year deal and it won’t be for chicken scratch.
I never felt like he was a liability in either LF or RF.
He is just fine in right field or left field. He played a lot of outfield in college as well. I can see him as an every day corner outfielder for sure. At third base his defense is average or maybe a bit above average. He is not bad at third defensively but not great either. He has a good accurate arm from the outfield as well.
Passable but I was slightly nervous every time it was hit out there to him
Whatever date decides the extra year of control, whether it’s April 15, May 1, etc. if the team called him up a day after then they get the extra year. It’s that simple. I’m sure the owners and MLBPA agreed to said date in the CBA.
I knew that tactic would come back to haunt them.
It is not haunting them at all. If Bryant wins he gets the year back so how does that haunt the Cubs. It is just business. If Bryant loses how does that haunt the Cubs?
If he leaves as a free agent it will be for more money offered not because of when he was called up. If he is a free agent and the Cubs make the best offer be will stay. If not he will go.
Worst case scenario for Bryant is he earns 45 million dollars over then next two years and then gets a massive contract afterwards. Sounds awful
They did nothing wrong. How is 10 extra days in triple a a huge crime? He still won unanimous rookie of the year. Won a world series and unanimous MVP.
This is the most obvious example of manipulating service time ever. Acuna is the second. I’d like an arbitrator to allow Acuna to void his contract as well.
This has got to stop.
Happened to Springer. If Bryant wanted to stay with Cubs this service time issue wouldn’t matter to him. Cubs didn’t manipulate anything. If bryant filed a grievance at the urging of the union, then the union has manipulated Bryant and not the team.
If it has to stop as you say the the players union needs to stop it in the next CBA and not agree to allow it to be done like they agreed to allow this in the current CBA.
How exactly do you stop it in the next CBA, though? No matter where or how you set the deadlines, teams are going to manipulate it in borderline cases.
You are comparing apples to oranges here. You know Acuna inked that extension a year after he was called up and had nothing to do with manipulating service time? He would’ve been likely to do it even if he was looking at being 4 years away from FA instead of 5.
If I’m Texas, assuming we don’t get Rendon, I’m building a deal around Taveras and Apostel.
Heyward needs to be in Bryant deal. Maybe more to balance the massive haul of top prospects received. Hendricks included to make the deal. There is a way out for the Cubs. Someone will pay the exorbitant cost. They always do.
Why the hell would Heyward need to be part of any deal? That would mean a complete rebuild. They aren’t even close to that.
The Cubs are not going to trade Hendricks. He is signed to a team friendly extension.
As for Heyward I do not see why the Cubs would try to include him in a Bryant deal. To do so would limit the prospect return. The idea if trading Bryant is more about the prospect return than what his arbitration salary may be this year.
Um, no, the Cubs aren’t rebuilding just yet. The main idea is to clear payroll space to improve the team elsewhere. They’d also prefer to get back at least one Major League player rather than just prospects.
Nobody has mentioned the Twins as a potential suitor. They are looking at corner infield options. Their farm is pretty stacked. Cubs probably need to clear some money and rid themselves of a toxic relationship – my guess is they’d prefer to move him to an AL team, and one that can take on a little money. Rangers, Twins, Yanks, maybe Angels.
Who do the Twins have on their roster that is owed in the $5-10M a year range that they’d be willing to part with? Cubs could take that back and up the return and lower the cost of the deal for the Twins.
That’s a question for the GMs, but maybe E Rosario would be a fit.
Rosario has the on base skills of a potted plant. The Cubs have that in spades already.
Well, it did answer your question of who the Twins might be willing to part with in a particular price range. I didn’t know there were certain performance qualifiers attached to the query.
Would love to see Philly in on this (just like most other fans). With not much more to offer than Bohm & Medina (I really believe Howard likely is and needs to be untouchable) I think their willingness to take back Darvish or Heyward might be enough to entice the Cubs.
If the Braves or Dodgers want him then there’s no way to top their prospect offers.
Philly has no one in their farm worthwhile for Bryabt.
No matter what its gonna take at least 3 players. At least one prospect in someone’s top 10.
If they rule in favor of Bryant watch the owners get super cheap
They should not ever rule in favor of this unless if for future players that make their debut after the rule change
From what I hear a deal with the Braves is a lock. They have 2 lists the Cubs got to choose from if it’s decided he got 1 yr from free agency or if its 2 yrs.
Inciarte would be a part of either as would Anderson
After that they have lists to choose from.
Got ppl that are at the winter meetings right now and they are down there connecting putting their names in for when they get out of school for internships.
Got bout 6 friends from school there now.
Could they be messing with me because they know I am a Brave fan could be but I doubt it. Also another mutual friend got an internship with the Braves and another with the Tiger last year. They are both there working.
Why is everyone so obsessed with Ender Inciarte? He would be a downgrade to Almora in CF
Inciarte is an “over-paid, light hitting, defensive specialist”. THAT is why Braves fans want to ship him out.
Some Fans prefer Defensive Metrics to Offense….and think they are more valuable than sluggers.
History has shown that players with defensive skills but a light bat get small paychecks. Sluggers get the Big Money.
Inciarte is too expensive for his skill set, which detracts from his value.
Would you open your eyes and actually think through the math involved in trades Wrek. Inciarte is OWED MONEY. If the Cubs take him back that lowers the Braves cost on Bryant. In turn it ups the return a bit that the Cubs can demand for Bryant in terms of prospects. Getting Ian Anderson would be a nice starting point. I think the Cubs have to get Waters too.
Anderson,Waters,Contreas and one Inciaarte plus cash. For Bryant. They could get a lot back for the rumored Willson Contreras trade as well. He’s gonna get back 4 players in any trade. SD is a great trade partner. They can flip william Contreras for more pitching. They have Miguel Amaya to replace him. Caratini will still be a backup.
Provided two years of KB, I’d package the prospects, sign Ozuna and call it a day. As some pointed out, the Cubs prefer pitching. This is a position of strength for the Braves. Kyle Wright, Shea Langeliers, Bryce Wilson and Ynoa.
So then Schwarber plays 3B? OK, but how that help their pitching? Are a couple of prospects really going to be enough to patch their mediocre rotation and swiss cheese bullpen?
Now let’s take everything into consideration. If an employer screws an employee out of a year or two of retirement time, everyone is pissed! It’s the exact same principles! If they’re sending players back down to the farm for a week or two to control them for one or two more years, it can and will have a major impact on their earning ability in free agency! A player hitting the open market at 30 instead of 28 has a negative impact on their earnings! Even in the rare cases where one could hit the market at 25 instead of 27-28 has a major impact on years handed out in contracts and dollar amounts! Don’t fool yourself into saying “Oh, the poor millionaire players” when it also happens in the “real” world!
Also in the real world if you have a union then it is collectively bargained.
The owners are just playing the game. For it to be fixed it needs to be bargained next contract.
How the players union allowed that to be put in like that is beyond me.
Cubs need to find a way to package Bryant with Chatwood to clear an additional 13 mil and address some of the bullpen needs. One trade can clear 30+ mil.
And knowing the Ricketts they’ll let theo spend 5mil of it. That would be 85 mil to spend this winter. Joe Ricketts is a cheapskate plain and simple
You really do not pay attention to math. The Cubs spent $1BILLION to renovate Wrigley. That’s $500M OVER budget. The TV network doesn’t generate money until this year. They have a huge payroll this year. They only won 84 games last year. They cannot sign all the guys coming up for FA anyway. Now is absolutely the time to retool for the future. This need not be a complete overhaul. But they have to make changes and the math does matter.
Yes gcg, good points. Portraying Ricketts as a “cheapskate” given the projected 2020 payroll of around $210 million, not to mention the other expenditures you mentioned, is just plain silly. Instead, the expert he relied on to put together a dynasty spent money foolishly, repeatedly. At some point, the allowance was bound to get cut off. As maddening as Joe Maddon can be as a manager, the housecleaning really should have started with Epstein and Hoyer.
Man, Bryant in the BlueJays lineup would look awfully good… depending on the resolution of his grievance.
KB to the blue Jays would start with Cavan Biggio. After that they dont have much they could offer.
KB is the “show” in the 3B off-season sweepstakes. The grievance definitely slows this down as does Rendon’s status. I think Texas is going to reel in Rendon, leaving KBs main suitors as Philly, Anaheim and Atlanta. The Angels and Braves have things Cubs likely want more than what the Phillies have to offer. Getting Soroka and Waters from ATL would be a coup for Theo, but Atlanta has lots of near MLB ready pitching to go with Riley. Jo Adell and Griffin Canning would be a nice get from the Angels as well.
Count me as one of those who would love to see KB win but don’t think MLB will open that giant can of snakes until the CBA renegotiation.
There is no way Soroka is included in any trade. If it’s one thing the Braves cannot afford to let go, it’s a pivotal rotation piece. Same goes for Fried. Perhaps Waters is included in a package, but I expect it’s purely a prospect package.
Does anyone have a good breakdown of the $ amount in salary Bryant hypothetically loses in that extra year assuming he loses his case? E.g. his abr number is at $25 mil for that year, Is he a candidate for a $30 mil AAV contract if he was to enter FA a year sooner? $35? Obviously getting to choose your employer sooner is a sizable part of the FA puzzle, but my napkin math doesn’t suggest that he’s losing out on that much cash here.
Watch the cubs get table scraps for him. The cubs should have been trying to trade Bryant and several underperforming starters to clear salary and sign a few of these free agents (like Rendon, Donaldson, one of the top starting pitchers, etc.). Instead, they’re just looking for salary relief and moving a disgruntled young player who’s full of himself.
Who else would they have traded, say, last offseason? They’d want to keep Rizzo, Baez, Contrares, Lester, and Hendricks. They’d have to eat a bunch of money in any Heyward or Darvish deal, and they both have at least partial no-trade protection, anyway. Russell and Chatwood had (and still have) no trade value. Guys like Scwarber, Almora, and Happ may be underpeforming, but they also make relative peanuts, so they wouldn’t save any money by trading them. Meanwhile, their bullpen needed and still needs all the help it can get.
The best they could’ve done aside from trading Bryant was not picking up Hamels’s option, but that would still only be enough money to sign one top-tier free agent, not two of them to replace them both. Maybe they could’ve traded Quintana, but he’s not that expensive, and it would’ve just opened up another hole in the starting rotation, where they have almost no depth.
Are you kidding?
Bryant, Schwarber, Happ, Almora, Quintana, Strop, and possibly Contreras should have all been on the trading block the last two offseasons. They could have acquired numerous prospects while freeing up payroll reload with Rendon and Cole or Strasburg. As it stands now, they’re done. Lousy farm system, no money for too free agents and a .500ish roster. And make no mistake, they’re not winning 84 games in 2020. This ain’t trolling or hating the cubs, this is being realistic. Bullpen is terrible, starting rotation is aging with no swing and miss high velocity guys, a low contact lineup that relies on HRs (with no one on base) to score runs. The cubs are in serious trouble and really need to do something. The lack of urgency on both sides of town is alarming. We’re set up for disappointing seasons from both the cubs and White Sox because the respective owners and front offices decided contending in 2020 is not a priority. Hahn has even gone on record saying this in an interview at the Winter Meetings. I am thoroughly disgusted with the sports franchises in Chicago.
If Bryant actually wins this grievance, I think they’ll be better of trading Rizzo instead. They’d get a lot more for 2 years of Rizzo than 1 year of Bryant, plus it wouldn’t be that hard for the Cubs to find a decent 1B bat at a relatively cheap price on the free agent market to replace him in the lineup. Also, I checked, and Rizzo doesn’t have any no-trade protection in his contract.
They’re not gonna do that. It’s hard to replace the best 1B in the NL. They need to extend him and Baez.
Wrek, When did they get Freeman
Nobody’s trading much for an aging and highly paid 1B. 1B is the easiest position to play, and the easiest to fill in baseball.
If the Players do not like the rule……they have to change it …..but for now they have to live with the agreement.
Kris Bryant was going to free agency when he came up after his delay…….it was in his mind back in 2015, and still is today.
Phillies have NOTHING to give to the Cubs…….
Braves, Padres, Twins all do from their farm system…….
Four teams he is not going in a trade for sure….Reds, Brewers, Cardinals , Pirates……
other trade partners…….Dodgers, Yankees. Rangers, Angels
Yep.
If players were given service time for the playoffs this issue would not exist.
If the Padres do get him, I’d say put him at third base, move Manny to short and Fernando to second base… Tatis repeatedly hurt himself at short and second base might keep him healthier.
The Angels and Adell solve a lot. Working from that the deal can get much bigger, most likely a third team, too.
Hasn’t this article ran the last 3 weeks? Oh that’s right it is the Cubs.
Rangers end up with Bryant after missing on Rendon. This teams up Gallo and Bryant again.
I would rather die than see Bryant suit up for Texas
What a stupid comment.
I’m curious what would make you rather die than see Bryant in a Rangers uniform? He’s a very good player who plays the game hard and has a squeaky clean image. I guess your right…that doesn’t sound like a typical Ranger.
Still failing to see how so many people are mad at the owners for this. The players union literally negotiated and agreed to these rules. The rules are clearly stated for any and all to read if they so choose. The Cubs did nothing to break a single one of said rules.
It basically amounts to Bryant trying to win the grievance based on his own opinion of himself and his playing skills. There is no argument there that he can possibly win unless a Cubs official actually makes an official confession of manipulating his service time, which will not happen.
@Jeff Todd it’d be interesting to see a breakdown from you guys on each team’s profit breakdown, owner worth, stadium situation. It’d be great to know what the revenue/profit that the Cubs actually have vs their claims. Teams like Tampa, Oakland and others that have limited payrolls, and the other side
Who is on the Mt. Rushmore of Cub Nation?
4 choices only. Does not have to be limited to players. Chime in please.
I would presume it to be the flags flown on both foul poles at Wrigley Field. Santo and Banks. Williams and Sandburg. Those are the names the organization chooses to fly..
Jenkins?
Banks, Williams, Jenkins, Sandberg.
Santo?
Banks, Sandburg, Harry Caray, Santo
Theo has to have a flag. Banks, Williams , Rhyno.
Theo never!
What do you think it would take for the Padres to trade for Bryant (have him play OF) and/or Willson Contreras?
For both, Top 4 prospects, 1, 2, 3, and 4. If Heyward added, maybe a little more feasible on Padre end.
Dave Rosello………..Mike Garmen………..Mell Hall…………Kevin Orie
Should Theo get more cred for winning his World Series or for destroying any chance of getting another? Did he even bother to go to the winter meetings? They can’t trade KB till after they get the ruling and he has no money to sign a free agent. The organization could have saved the travel and lodging money and stayed home! Every little bit helps!
If a trade might happen, they’ll need to give us their best players in return. Heck, we could trade KB for Mike Trout if we could.
He’s not going anywhere until grievance is settled. If Cubs win, they trade KB for best package. If Cubs lose, they try to negotiate with Borras on long term extension.
Contract extension for KB is out of the question. They have to move him to save payroll. They’ll just get a lesser package back.