The Cubs, just a couple months from the end of a bitterly disappointing campaign, may be on their way to an offseason shakeup. The club has been “aggressive,” “manic,” “motivated” and “obvious” in its effort to trade someone, executives have told Jeff Passan of ESPN.com.
The possibility of a trade involving first baseman Anthony Rizzo has looked out of the question to this point, but even the franchise favorite might not be off-limits, according to Passan, who names third baseman/outfielder Kris Bryant and catcher Willson Contreras as other possible chips for Chicago.
Rizzo’s on the heels of yet another excellent offensive season, in which he slashed .293/.405/.520 with 27 home runs in 613 plate appearances. The 30-year-old is controllable for the next two seasons by way of affordable club options, and has already said he hopes to sign a new contract with the Cubs. So far, though, there hasn’t been any scuttlebutt regarding a new deal between the two sides.
Pound for pound, Bryant’s likely the best player of the three, but there’s wariness toward him from other clubs in regards to his team control, per Passan. As of now, Bryant’s still under wraps for two more years via arbitration, but the former NL MVP will become a free agent next winter if he wins a grievance against the Cubs for allegedly manipulating his service time as a rookie in 2015. He’s currently slated to earn a projected $18.5MM via the arb process next season, and that looks like a reasonable price relative to what the soon-to-be 28-year-old Bryant brings to the table. Still, if teams aren’t sure whether they’ll get one or two years of Bryant, it’s understandable that they may not want to make a massive offer for him.
Meantime, there’s no debate as to how much time Contreras has left before free agency. He’s got another three arb-eligible years, including a 2020 season in which he’s slated to earn at a bargain rate of $4.5MM. Between his cost and his years-long track record of terrific production, Contreras is hands down one of the most valuable catchers in baseball. With that in mind, the Cubs aren’t under pressure to trade Contreras for anything less than a sweetheart offer. However, if Chicago does move Contreras, it does seem to have a capable replacement on hand in Victor Caratini.
Whether the Cubs part with Rizzo, Bryant, Contreras or another of their big-time contributors (Javier Baez?), it does look as if this is setting up as an offseason of seismic changes for the club. Epstein was frustrated a year ago after the Cubs failed to advance past the wild-card round, so he’s surely even more upset now following a season in which they didn’t even make the playoffs.
They’d lose half their fan base if they traded Rizzo
At the current ticket price? Yes. It’s not any one particular player that draws fans to Wrigley. They get over departures. They’ve always been faithful and not fair weather fans. But they’re also knowledgeable baseball fans and sat through crummy teams when bleacher seats were $10. Forget it now.
I’d love to see data on how many fans each year make a pilgrimage to Wrigley, like I’ve done.
I’d imagine the number of out of towners helps keep the park full.
Not disputing your point. It’s just always been a curiosity of mine.
As a Dodgers fan from Indiana we used to go to Wrigley every year when LA came to town. After 2016 the parking went to like $60, tickets went up, and access around the stadium during BP was horrible. My wife and I walked from our seats right by the Dodgers dugout to the bullpen area to see Kershaw warm up (last year on the field). There was not anyone by the bullpen except for us and 2 teenagers in Kershaw jerseys. A usher came over and told us we had to leave if we didn’t have seats in that section. The same goes for going in the outfield during BP. Unless u have bleacher tickets you cant go out there, even though your box seats cost 4x the bleacher seats. We started going to Cincinnati to watch games when the Dodgers come to town. It’s cheaper and alot friendlier than the so called friendly confines of Wrigley Field.
Yeah, isn’t it disappointing? I think Harry Caray may have coined the phrase, “friendly” confines. Too bad cubs fans are anything but friendly. They’re a-holes.
That’s so true ! You can put it on the Board….. YES
I can remember Jack Brickhouse calling Wrigley Field the friendly confines back in the 60’s, so Harry does not get the credit for coining the phrase. Actually my recollection is that Ernie Banks got the credit for the first use way back when Harry was still working for the Cardinals.
CSC, If you knew anything about the Cubs you’d know it was Ernie Banks who called it “The Friendly Confines of Beautiful Wrigley Field”. This is the last time I will read any of your comments. You don’t belong here. Go follow your own team. I promise you won’t ever see me comment on a Sox article, I don’t read them, the team is so boring.
I’d make fun of your ball park but you change then name every year
Yes. Clearly all a-holes. But I don’t recall any of them, ever, physically assaulting a coach on another team. So there’s at least one epic a-hole on the other side of the fence;. Or is it two?
youtube.com/watch?v=4Ho1GHJMFJo
And then ChiSux, there’s you.
You are the biggest idiot on the board, so its no surprise you support the biggest joke of a team in Chicago. Calling cubs fans A holes? Cubs fans dont jump on the field and beat up old men that are coaches for other teams. You are just as big of a loser as the White Sux.
Nice
The irony of your post…
You aren’t missed.
Only to trash like you.
Hopefully Hawk Harrelson dies soon so those stupid phrases are forgotten.
lol those were Royals fans, meatball. But please, don’t let facts get in the way of your narrative. The truth fans of other teams can’t stand cubs fans because they are, in fact, know nothing a##hats.
Similar issue with Fenway. 20 years ago a bleacher ticket was $8 and today they range from $20 to $60 bucks. You expect prices to go up but they have really priced average families out.
Try going to an SF giants game and see the comparison in parking, seats, food, etc
I agree , he’s our leader on and off the field
The only thing that would upset Cubs fans more than trading Rizzo, would be trading him to the White Sox. Could you imagine? I hate that they’ve struggled as much as they have since breaking the curse. Tough division. If my Braves pass on Donaldson, I’d love to see Bryant in ATL.
Braves would have to give up some good pitching prospects for a Bryant trade so it wouldn’t happen
slowcurve Perish the thought!
Back in the day they traded Ron Santo to the Sox. He was a fan favorite traded when they were dismantling the never quite good enough ’69-’73 team. The next year Billy Williams went to Oakland for Manny Trillo, Bob Locker and Darold Knowles. Fan faves do get traded, but in those cases from ’73 and ’74, the trades were too late….
You trade who you can get the most for. That would be Baez
Yeah, Im curious what they could get for Baez, but there is already a recent precedence what a return would resemble for Contreras with the Realmuto trade…
I seriously doubt they’d trade Baez or Rizzo either.
No, they wouldn’t. But I struggle to see them trading a guy who plays great defense, has a really good approach and who is a left handed power bat. But maybe someone blows them away. Seems unlikely.
lol ridiculous statement. How many terrible teams did this fan base root for and go out to see while getting drunk? This isn’t Toronto, cub fans are borderline masochists
I believe Bryant, Heyward and Schwarber will be traded this off season. They can pick up some elite pitching prospects from the likes of the Braves, Rays and Padres. Heyward would be just a salary dump. The league if full of good young hitters but pitching is hard to come by.
lol
The only player of the three you listed that has value is Bryant. Like you said Heyward would be a salary dump (and probably have to package something good to get rid of him, i.e. Nico Hoerner)and Schwarber is inconsistent and is a defensive liability–likely an AL only player and not many AL teams are looking for a DH. And even Bryant doesn’t have the trade value you are wanting him to have because of his dispute against the Cubs for manipulating playing time–they may be trading for him only to have him a year, his shoulder issues, and his decline in performance.
I think most GMs would disagree with you on Schwarber’s value. He has turned himself into an average fielder in left. He moves better than his body type suggests, and has worked really hard to improve. He wasn’t any worse than the 2 biggest outfield FAs on the market. Ozuna (slightly better) and Castellanos (slightly worse) played the field at about the same level as Schwarber. If you are a team looking to upgrade your offensive output from LF, you could save 50 million and trade for Schwarber.
More importantly, he hit .280 with 20 HR after the All-Star break. His 2nd half also showed a 14% decrease in K rate. OPS went from .777 to .997. There is a lot of evidence that suggests Kyle is figuring it out at the plate.
There is no way they can get out from Heyward’s contract at this point. Too many years left.
eh, I’d keep the team the same for the most part. the real issue is the inability of the front office to produce any pitchers from the farm and the decision to stop spending money for…. reasons.
Yeah, if they revamped their pitching staff, and added a reliable starter and a couple reliable arms for the pen, then it would definitely go a long way for the Cubbies..
Kinda hard to make additions with the Kimbrel, Heyward, Chatwood, and Darvish contracts hanging around your neck.
Kimbrel 2 years left . Chatwood gone after this year . Hamels 20 mil gone zobrist 13 mil gone Morrow 12 million gone. They are fine it’s just will they spend it ? New tv deal, legal gambling at Wrigley next year as well
They have 185M committed already. They aren’t “fine”. They have little margin for error.
They should be willing to go into the lux tax given their competitive window the next two years. A top 5 revenue team can afford much more than $200M in payroll.
This comment makes absolutely no sense. Want to make your team better?? Nope, we’re fine, thx :). Ffs.
Yep. Go get Gerrit Cole and you instantly extend the window 3 years. Obviously will be going over luxury tax like a rocket this year but losing chatwood, Quintana and Lester next year
Losing the Zobrist salary and trading KB covers Cole’s contract. It’s plausible, just not preferred.
According to sportstrac they pretty near the luxury tax after projected arbitration.
Yes, yes, I believe we have a winner!
I think Contreras will get dealt as he will get them a good haul and have a good replacement in Caratini who can take over.
I think the same. For example a change of Contreras to the Padres for good prospects, among them Luis Patiño
So the players underperform and they let Joe Maddon walk, and Theo makes some huge mistakes in trades and FA signings and they want to ship out homegrown talent? Sounds about right
I really find it astonishing that you have your phone set to give you alerts when a Cubs story posts. It’s pretty remarkable. Pathetic yeah, but remarkable nonetheless.
I mean they give you the option to track your favorite team..
Well played KingRyan. I bet he does have it set to be notified of Cubs stories rather than Sox ones.
Yeah….What would Rick Hahn do?
White Sox in decade long rebuild and nags on Cubs constantly. Jose Abreu extension and aging grandal might not look so good in two years. Hopefully they give wheeler that 100+ million next.
“might not look so good” would be a massive improvement for Cubs free agents
I’m sorry but did you watch Darvish pitch after June 1st? He was unhittable. Like lights out for his last 15 starts. Can not defend Morrow, I cannot though I’ll give you that.
You hope
You can’t fire the players who are under contract . Can only fire so many hitting coaches until manager takes the fall. Theo isn’t firing himself
Yes, Rick Hahn. What would he and that FO that has produced 7 straight losing seasons do? That’s the real question.
Theo has made a lot of the same mistakes he made in Boston. He’s very good at pushing the right buttons to take a team from good to great but hasn’t shown an ability to do so sustainably.
Granted this is the hardest thing for a GM to do but he’s been blessed with resource rich franchises and has ended up expending all those reserves without a clear plan in place to replenish them and overall team performance suffers as a result.
From good to great. The Cubs were 20 games under .500 in 2011 before he arrived. They lost 101 games in 2012. They had not won 90 games in three straight seasons since 1930. He engineered a complete friggin’ rebuild of that franchise from head to toe that included 4 straight playoff appearances, 5 straight winning seasons, three appearances in the NLCS and a World Series title.
You seriously think the Cubs can’t retool and continue to compete? They may take a step back for a year or two, but they are still really well positioned to stay relevant.
They are hardly dealing from a poor deck at the ML level and their farm system is no longer completely barren either. They make one trade for two Top 100 type prospects and they are staring at a Top 10 system again with real depth. The real challenge they face is figuring out which parts of the core to trade and when to do it.
Quintana comes off the books next year. They buy out Lester for 10M next year. They are stuck with Heyward for 4 more years. They have Darvish through 2023 as well. That’s 46M tied up annually. Even if they only had one such contract they aren’t keeping Schwarber, Baez, Almora, Contreras, Rizzo and Bryant because they couldn’t afford to do it. Who do they try and extend. Who do they hold onto until FA hits. Who do they look to trade.
They are a rich team. That really has not changed.. And they are not facing anything remotely like what they were dealing with back in 2011. Not even close.
Right on gcg. Good post.
I’ll add that the Cubs could carry $50M in completely dead contracts and still be more competitive than most franchises. And Darvish and Heyward are not totally dead contracts. This is a team that will put a $200M product on the field. The issue they face now is a byproduct of having competed for the past 5 years at the highest level of the game. They have players moving through arbitration and they cannot keep them all. So they can retool now, retool at the deadline, retool next offseason or sprinkle it out. But they have no choice but to retool. That’s how arbitration and FA works. Players make more money.
As a White Sox fan I have to say if they trade Rizzo I’d be stunned. He’s as much of a stand up guy as there is in baseball. No less he’s a great clubhouse guy and terrific ball player. I feel like most every fan of baseball has a ton of respect for the charity work he constantly does and would love to have him on their club.
They have no money
They want to get money by moving big contracts nobody really wants
Theo dumpster dives when he doesn’t move heyward darvish chatwood etc.
If he shocks the world and trades Contreras Bryant etc and offloads their salaries he could fill many holes.
Cesar Hernandez and Maikel Franco could be cheap 2B 3B options. Peraza could be a cheap ss option. Santana to RF.
Could talk to the braves about a Bryant and Contreras mega deal for some of their pitching. Toss in Almora and take back inciarte
Not to mention that part of the haul the cubbies could get back in the trade is the Braves top catching prospect Williams Contreras, who is Wilson’s younger brother. Easy sell to fans and has a great future ahead of him as well.
The last thing the Cubs need is MORE catching depth in their farm system. They need power bats at other positions and they need pitchers who are closer to the big leagues than their collection of pretty good power arms is right now.
55mil isnt no money and will Russell gone thats another 5mil added to the spending this year. Of course Jim Ricketts refuses to give his son money so they can let theo spend it. Because he’s cheap. Billion dollar network and they have no money
55 mill to get 3-5 bullpen arms, RF, a super utility guy, and a 2B? Not alot of money to go around. Cubs could spend 40 of that easily trying to bolster the pen.
55 million to re-sign Castellanos and 3 bullpen arms and possibly a starter
They have a 2nd baseman.
So… Basically Castellanos and 4 equally crappy pitchers? Or Castellani’s and one decent pitcher along with 3 absolutely terrible pitchers. That’ll get it done.
Problem is they have a lot of wasted money tied to the RF position and no team wants him either.
The Cubs do not have a second baseman. They have Nico Hoerner. He’s far from a proven commodity. He comes with a ton of risk.
Nico Hoerner will do just fine.
Maybe. Maybe he’ll need to head back to the minors. Development isn’t some clear linear path all the time. Will he eventually be a servicable pro. Yes, I think so. Am I confident that happens next year? No, I’m not.
You can’t be realistic, that doesn’t fly here.
What are the cubs gonna do with inciarte? Why get worse.
Bryant alone to the Braves gets 4 players in their top 10 of prospects. And possibly max fried. Trade Contreras for another 4 prospects. You get his brother part of the Bryant deal.
There is absolutely ZERO chance Bryant gets 4 of ANYONE’S top prospects until his grievance is over. Especially Atlanta with Fried included. 4 of Atlanta’s top 10 prospects are in the top 50 in all of baseball, thats where their farm system is at. Your koolaid must be spiked. You’re higher than a kite.
Okay 3 prospects and a starter.
Bryant for William Contreras,Bryse Wilsom,Max Fried and Drew Waters. That’s as fair as it gets. Since they wont trade Max Fried instead Add Ian Anderson.
Over value much? Zero chance the Cubs get anything close to four of the Braves top 10 for 1 or 2 years of Bryant. None. And Fried is going nowhere. The Braves need another starter more than they need Bryant so they will not subtract from the rotation for him.
While the Braves may not want to do a trade that involves 4 of their top 10 prospects, that would absolutely be the right price for 2 years of Bryant. And to drive that home further it would involve two of their top 4 prospects and then two more prospects in the 5-20 range of their system.
Seriously break it down –
1 – The Braves need two starters and someone to “replace” JD’s bat.
2 – Trading for starters is insanely hard and expensive. And this is a deep FA class for pitching.
3 – Two years of KB will cost about $40M
4 – If the Cubs trade KB they are without question taking an enormous risk in terms of their ability to compete over the next two years.
5 – The Braves can try to resign JD or Rendon. That will cost more than 20M a year for two years. Book it.
6 – The Cubs could eat some of Bryant’s salary by taking back cost from Atlanta or just eating salary.
Bryant gives Atlanta a guy who will hit 30 HR and put up a 900+ OPS that can play four different positions. He also is a good base runner. He’s insanely valuable. And a trade for Bryant allows Atlanta to clear other cost. The Cubs could use Inciarte even if he is a bit pricey. That would put Atlanta’s cost on Bryant at $13M a year for two years. That’s insanely cheap considering Moose just signed a 4 year deal at $16M per.
What does that cost Atlanta? Obviously Inciarte who the Cubs could find a like for like replacement elsewhere and likely at less cost. So it costs the Braves Waters or Pache and it costs them Anderson. And it then probably costs them either another prospect that is good floor or two more prospects that are decent floor and high ceiling.
Then there’s Atlanta’s system. No offense, but once you get past the top four guys it is sort of meh. It reminds me of the Cubs system with, frankly, less upside. It lacks power bats (even moreso than the Cubs’ which is piss poor too), it has catching depth (ditto for the Cubs) and it has a lot of decent arms (similar to the Cubs although I like the Cubs collection of arms better).
Maybe Atlanta doesn’t pull the trigger on a deal. But there’s no reason for the Cubs to give Bryant away for less than what I’ve outlined above. And yeah, they could toss in an extra piece or two themselves. But they’ll be fringy type throw ins.
Again, maybe Atlanta says no. But Bryant is a viable option if they want to really fill their most immediate needs on the ML club.
LOL
1. The Braves went through a real rebuild with the intention of contending for at least 5-7 years; hopefully longer. Their young pitchers – both on the ML roster and in the high minors – are only now starting to mature.
They are not trading a bundle of quality talent that will be coming up over the next 1 to 4 years to get 2 years of a power hitting 3B. It would undermine everything they’ve successfully worked to set-up over the past 6 years.
2. If a power hitting 3B is the answer to everything, then they cover Donaldson’s best offer by 20% and give him a 3 year contract. Bryant may be a bit of a better hitter, but Donaldson is a far better defender.
The Braves are supposed to limit their future for that? Seriously?
Donaldson is going to get 4 year offers worth $100M. So you’re going to pay him $90M over 3 vs. paying Bryant $26M over 2 if you can get the Cubs to take Inciarte as part of the return? Knock yourself out. The point is the Braves are going to go out and sign pitching – at least they should want to sign pitching. And trading for Bryant is a path to enable them to do exactly that. It won’t come cheap. Not sure how you conclude handing over 2 top prospects and 2 more really good ones somehow closes a window for Atlanta. But that’s your read.
LOL
You don’t give up…..
I think you analyze the Braves situation incorrectly, and ignore their actions.
The Braves have already signed pitching – in their bullpen. They have enough young starters to begin the season with, and will have money and medium level prospects in reserve to make an in-season trade if their current young starters falter. It’s what they did last year with their bullpen, and they won the NL East.
Most teams are now taking that approach – making in-season deals when they see what is working and what’s not. If they need a power hitting 3B – which is questionable – then one will be available in-season. If they are hard up for a #4 RH hitter and Donaldson is usaffordable, then they can go after Marcell Ozuna (a player they’ve expressed interest in) or Nicholas Castellanos or Yasiel Puig – stick him in a corner OF spot and move Riley back to 3B. It will cost them a fraction of what you seem to think they have to give up for Bryant.
The trouble with your thinly veiled arrogant post concluding that somehow a FO that proven to be far more effective and talented then the Cubs have painted themselves in a corner, and only succumbing to the Cubs demands can get them out. Sorry, the Braves are sitting pretty and holding all the cards. It’s the Cubs that have painted themselves in the corner.
Sure, they could do all of those things. Good for them. That doesn’t make Kris Bryant any cheaper in a trade. And the Cubs are far from “painted into a corner”. But do go on arrogantly proclaiming how a team with their core can’t possibly retool and remain competitive.
Alex Antopoulos posted himself a record of 489-483 as the Blue Jays GM. Until he wins a world series title as a GM he’s an after thought relative to a host of other front offices. Carry on.
They have tons of money. They don’t want to spend it. Even so though, they just cleared $30 million in payroll of the books with Hamels, Zobrist, Russell, and so forth. They’ll clear more money next off season when Lester, Chatwood and Quintana will be gone. So this idea that they’re crying poor is BS. Not to mention, each baseball team gets $50 million per year from MLBAM.
I doubt the Cubs want to move Darvish because he was their best pitcher in the second half last season.
All those options you named for 2B,3B, and SS are terrible. They should be back loading contracts now to get in a good 2B and CF for the next two years. Then their core will be gone. Push hard for two years them rebuild.
Trade Bryant for prospects and save his money, he wont sign sn extention anyway. Move Contreras back to third base, he played there before.
cUbS hAvE nO mOnEy
Cracks me up every time someone says it.
Someone said 60 mill.
3 to 5 bullpen arms
A RF
A 2B
A super utility guy to play 3rd ss 2nd and corners
A solid #5 starter
And a partrich in a pear tree.
The pen alone will cost anywhere between 40 and 60 if you’re pursuing high end options.
Good luck filling all those needs with productive and viable options in order to compete on just 60 mill this off season.
They already have their 4th and 5th starters locked in with Quintana and Lester. What they need is a number 1, which Darvish and Hendricks are not.
Well that’s even worse. We already know that they aren’t signing Cole, Stras, Wheeler, MadBum or Ryu so you are hoping the 6th best free agent pitcher on the market will step in and be your ace? Might as well just resign Hamels and hope he magically turns back into an ace caliber pitcher. He has a better chance than Keuchel and that’s all that’s left.
How do you know they won’t sign any of these guys? Bumgarner is definitely definitely plausible at 4 years 75 million.
It’s insane to think they’ll trade Rizzo. Other than Baez he’s the team leader.
I would think Bryant and his price tag would be the one they would want to move. The problem being you must get a “haul” if you trade him. You may not get that for a two year player at around 20 mil per. I can’t imagine anyone believes he will win the grievance. You do have the best replacement in Caratini for Contreras, but the price is cheap and he’s signed longer. I can’t see them being as good or better in 20’ by trading any of the aforementioned. Even a Schwarber trade hurts an already offensively challenged OF. They non tendered Russell, that saves some $. Maybe you trade Almora for nothing because that is his value. Javy and Rizzo are not getting dealt. The other option with a hefty salary may be Chatwood. He actually had a productive 2019.
Russo and Baez go nowhere. The real problem is all the money tied up in Lester, Darvish, Chatwood, and Heyward. Lester did his job. He helped steer the ship to 16’ WS title. Part of getting the great FA pitcher is usually having to pay him at age 36 or so, for more than he’s worth. Of Darvish can repeat a good 19 this season he’llbe good. The other 2 may contribute, but won’t live up to their $$$. If you can trade KB and/or Contreras and get a salary eaten, while getting a top arm in return? Go for it
Lester and Chatwood are gone after 2020. Backload any contact this season for after 2020.
Backloading doesn’t help with the lux tax.
They aren’t geeked about the luxury tax for 2020. Their issue is the fact they can’t possibly sign all of their core guys to extensions. So they’ll look to move pieces to restock and have another competitive window without being in the wilderness for years.
Seen this coming a long time ago. But many here won’t admit it. Most fans and management were over confident about the talent and lack of pitching was obvious.
Cubs in quicksand. The more they try to do the more they will sink.
Leave it a Cardinal homer to give his brilliant hindsight opinion.
Scumbag
@ themed;
Agreed.
There is a saying – “it’s hard to win, but it’s harder to keep winning when everyone is gunning for you after the first time”.
Theo has never understood pitching. He’s lousy at recognizing it in young pitchers. Lousy at developing guys for more then a few years….if that. But very good at giving out long-term contracts to pitchers (and position players) in which he basically gets 40% of production back for what he signed them for. He’s also extremely good at firing pitching coaches and later managers.
These proposed trades of an established star for multiple young players do work – for FO’s that recognize good young talent and have built an organization that can finish those guys off when they hit the majors. Theo has never been good about that. His forte is working for a big market franchise where he has boatloads of money. Taking on salary in trades from teams that have to trade known commodities because they don’t have endless financial resources, so they have to trade off a star to dump other overpaid players. Sometimes Theo even lucks out on a secondary player that’s thrown into the deal…..but not very often.
The young FO competition in small and medium markets has caught up to him, and has past him. They aren’t allowing him – or the Yankees – to pick off star players for just money anymore. He and his FO are not about to make a savvy trade anytime soon. He’s painted the Cubs into a corner, and if he had the ability to get them out, they wouldn’t be so far in the corner today.
He built a team that won a championship by tanking for 5 years. For that he deserves credit. But he is not Jeff Luhnow – that did the same thing at the same time, yet continues to have impact home-grown players coming up every year. Theo is simply not savvy enough to build a sustainable team unless he has endless increases in finances from ownership to cover for his mistakes in giving out numerous bad contracts. Happened in Boston. Happening now in Chicago.
You’re right. He’s not Jeff Luhnow. He didn’t cheat.
That’s dumb.
But I expected one like you.
The pump don’t work.
The Edwin Jackson contract stunned me. Just awful. But then Theo actually did a worse contract for Heyward. No small feat. Fire and trade everyone but don’t forget to look in the Morrow, I mean mirror Theo.
I can see a Contreras trade. Catchers and relievers – two kinds of players that all too often we see being great one year, and flip the script on you next year. Contreras is quite an athlete, and I’d actually love to see the Cubs ship Schwarber out for relief help, and move Contreras to LF and use him as a backup catcher. The kid can hit, save his legs and see what he can do with the bat with fresh legs under him for most of the season. I don’t really see this happening, but the more likely scenario is a trade.
Looking at what Realmuto netted the Marlins last offseason, Contreras is a comparable player with an additional year of control compared to what Realmuto had left when he was dealt. Sixto Sanchez is a top pitching prospect – if the Cubs could start a package around an arm of that quality, that’d be a great place to get the ball rolling.
Wouldn’t be surprised to see Lester or Hendricks get dealt sometime this season to a contender if they’re even half decent in the rotation this year. Cuba could pick up some of Lester’s $$$ for a couple of mid-range prospects even though he still has a year or two left on the deal.
*Cubs. Although Cuba would be cool too
All depends on how the team is performing come late June. If they are in contention I doubt the move any pitching and could look to add. If not, then yeah they could sell on Lester, Chatwood. Hendricks is signed long term. He’s unlikely to get moved regardless.
They won’t trade Rizzo. Contreras is the most likely then Bryant and both will be for a haul.
Many teams tried to sign Heyward to a similar deal. Same with Chatwood…. It’s all look in the mirror speculation. The problem is he spent like a huge market and the team has set a spending level. They haven’t been able to develop any pitching. You can’t hand out 20/30 million contracts to everyone. And you can’t get too tier free agent for less. So you trade someone from the “core” and try to add pitching. You need several bullpen arms, a utility bat, and a center fielder for sure. I would say they easily have to spend 40 million to remain competitive and that is without knowing who is traded and the return. Bryant is still the logical trade.
The Cardinals are the only team that tried to sign Heyward to a similar deal. Nobody was going anywhere near that price for Chatwood.
@priggs89. Several teams were interested at or near the price for Heyward. Go back and check. Chatwood was a very hot commodity. I can’t recall contract speculation for him.
Yea, whatever…..
You don’t want to alienate a large percentage of your fan base. Rizzo is probably the face of the Cubs for most fans, definitely their captain, and he is just a great guy. At least half of the fans could live with the trade of Bryant because they understand he is a Boras money sucker who won’t sign long term for much less than 300M. They need pitching and a CF/lead off guy, a Bryant trade can get some prospects that fit those needs. They have enough depth on the infield to get through if their pitching is good enough.
They don’t have to worry about alienating their fan base. That is the least of their worries.
Wow, you are the newest troll I see. I have said repeatedly in just about every post I made on here on this site that their biggest concern is starting pitching. They have had a revolving door of lead off hitters since Fowler left, all of which have failed miserably except Rizzo which was never going to be the solution long term. If they can address that need via their two weakest positions which are 2B or CF that would be ideal. Why do you think they are interested in Merrifield?
What’s the difference if you finish in 4th with Rizzo or without? No one stays with 1 team anymore and the Cubs are going nowhere with the situation the FO has put the team in. They’ll build him a statue to visit in a few years to take selfies by.
Now they are finishing fourth huh?
Certainly not 1st, but if you love them blindly that’s cool. Is it the stellar pitching,shoddy defense or all the empty HRs that has them on to the Series?
I am a lifelong fan and I would have to agree IF the season started today, the Cubs would be in huge trouble and may indeed finish near or at the bottom of the division. Their starting pitching just isn’t competitive. Lester should have retired and has absolutely nothing left and Quintana is dreadful. Darvish and Hendricks are aces? No, they are not.
Of course they have plenty of money that’s not the issue..cubs have been amongst the top spenders for a while,the problem is the money that has been spent has been used horribly,I can understand putting restraints on it when the team continues to get worse, not to mention the tax penalty’s applied for exceeding the luxury tax on consecutive years…if they were competing at a World Series caliber level then the amount of money spent would likely be less an issue.no one wants to invest that much and get failure in return.
Theo Epstein, amazing at rebuilds, but he has to be the worst GM when it comes to free agent signings. Now he’s considering trading Rizzo and or Bryant to ease payroll because of his terrible Heyward, Darvish, Kimbrel, and Chatwood signings? Jeez, man. What a ship show. Same thing happened in Boston.
“Pound for pound, Bryant’s likely the best player of the three” Not saying it isnt true but Id like to see a little more analysis on how this conclusion was made
You really think that is debatable. He’s younger than Rizzo. He can play 4 positions. He can actually run the bases too. All are really good, but he is the best of the three.
Bryant’s baserunning is extremely overrated.
Yes, clearly overrated. Not very many power hitting third basemen score on either of these plays. Like almost none. But do go on about how it is “extremely overrated”.
youtube.com/watch?v=wlt4-Q620bM
youtube.com/watch?v=8rXksj1poV4
I can literally cherry pick any player like that and try to look smart too. Wow man, stop reaching so hard
Some Cubs fans will take this personel, but overall I’ve been disappointed with this core of Cubs. They broke the streak which makes it all worth it, but considering the age and flexibility with most of their stars still being in arbitration, I think this team has fell short of their potential over the course of the last few seasons. Not sure I blame the players as much as I do the front office. Don’t think Theo gets enough flack for crippling their payroll flexibility.
Any honest Cubs fan wouldn’t take that personally at all. 3 straight NLCS’s and a championship were awesome. But getting the title so early in the breakout and then not getting back to the Series since is definitely a letdown. I don’t agree that Epstein crippled their payroll though. Darvish contract was a bargain compared to what Arrieta and Boras would have required of them. And Yu is a far better pitcher. If he pitches like he did the last 3/4 of last year it’s well worth the contract. Every penny of Lester’s deal was worth it even if he may be average at best this last year. Heyward was coming off a fantastic season with the Cards and what he signed for was high but not ridiculous. Chatwood wasn’t great but only a 3 year deal and last year not horrible. Morrow was a terrible, terrible signing. As was Descalso. And Quintana has been okay but the thing with him was payroll flexibility. Just like merrifield would be, not a superstar but for the contract he’s signed to makes it very valuable.
Bottom line is as much as boobs like the chitown/soxcity bobsy Twins want to call for the Cubs demise the key players are 25, 26, 27 not 35, 36, 37. And yes you lord of the dufuses chisoxcity trading some of these homegrown star players if need be is the exact right move.
Fallen short of potential, yes. Window closed, not even close.
Playing GM , prolly a bit of wishful thinking….
Trade Contreras for Josh Hader, brewers seem to be willing to move him and need a catcher…
Make a trade for Andujar with the Yankees, I’m guessing they want would take future arms for him, and cubs are not good at developing arms anyways…
Make a trade for Bundy,,, I know hes not an Ace but he’s got good stuff, high prospect, maybe just needs a change of scenery ,, prolly would take Almora and a prospect…
And also wouldnt mind seeing Bryant traded for a top end pitcher like Thor ???
Leaves ya with
C Vinni
1st Rizzo
2nd Nico (wish theyd landed Villar)
SS Javy
3rd Andujar
LF Schwarber
CF…. Happ or FA ,, maybe Heyward and sign Castellinos back
RF Heyward
Sp- Thor, Yu, Hendricks, Lester, Q
RP- Hader, Kimbrell
Go sign some decent BP arms (Dellin, Blake T, sure there’s other decent to pick up 1 or 2)
Options still out there for CF
Contreras is worth a lot more than Hader
Worth more than a top 5 relief pitcher that is 25 yrs old and has 4 years of team control at a very very very low cost…..doubtful
Bryant/Contreras To the Angels for Simmons, Heaney, Suarez, Goodwin
LOL
That’s hilarious.
I do wonder if the Angels would part with Adell as part of a deal for one of these Cubs.
Haha thanks, I was hoping to bring laughter and entertainment to this thread with my deluded trade deal 😉 but as an Angel fan, I hope they don’t part with Adell. Bryant to Anaheim would be ideal for the Halos because they need a lot more than Cole, and the Cubs need some you controllable players (Heaney, Goodwin, Suarez).
No problem. 🙂 Honestly, I think it depends on how many years Bryant has left on his deal. If he wins and only has one year, than yeah, no way the Angels part with Adell for one year of Bryant. But if Bryant loses and he has two years left?
As for young, controller players, Heaney is 28 and had a 4.91 ERA last year, Goodwin is 29 and hit .262 last year with an OPS of .796. Suarez is only 21, which is great, but has he ever been a relatively high level prospect? He posted a 7.11 ERA in 81 innings last year as a rookie.
I dunno, for Bryant, lets say 2 years, I’d have to think something like Adell, Will Wilson and Patrick Sandoval seems fair. Angels get an elite, 3B / OF, Cubs get an elite prospect, the Angels 2019 1st round pick and the Angels best pitching prospect. The latter two aren’t top 100 level prospects, so I dunno, that seems about right.
Or maybe that’s a better package for Contreras since he has three years left of affordable control at a more premium position. Either way, for their age and production, I think that package makes more sense in terms of what the Cubs would be looking for in return.
Is this for real?
Has to be an Angel’s fan im guessing
It’s an idea, and yes, I am an nervous Angel fan.
how about this trade
Phillies get 3B Kris Bryant
Cubs gets 3B Alec Bohm, RHP Spencer Howard and CF Mickey Moniak
The Phillies wouldn’t do that for a 1-yr rental. If Bryant loses his grievance, maybe it could happen. The cubs will have more leverage, and they absolutely should move on from this guy.
I said it thinking that Cubs will win Bryant’s case and they will have 2 years of remaining arbitration
That’s what happens when your starting pitching rotation needs zimmer frames in between starts. There’s alot of mileage on those arms.
How many times has this article ran under a different headline. Got the Yankees and Mets in now let’s pander to the Cubs fans.
Spend some $$ on pitchin’. This team as it stands is better than most. With Better defense, base runnin’, probably wins enough games to have gotten back to playoffs. The little things that got them a ring have not been on display. A little work on those and the results are CUBS WIN!!! CUBS WIN!!!
The Cubs have been a disappointment, yes redundancy. The early 2000 team couldn’t get over the hump when it looked like it would break the streak then. This team looked like it might go on a dynasty run and it seems like every move since the World Series was the wrong one.
If they spend any money it should be to add a front line starter.
lmao The cubbies on the way down
Bryant
Rizzo
Javy
Contraes
Scharbs
But couldn’t get by that vaunted pitching staff of the Brewers
Zack Davies
Nelson
Chacin
Cy young Gio
Haha have fun sucking in 3rd next 3-4 years 1 and done losers
It’s so weird that cubs fans still think the cubs are a contending team. I guess 2016 lingers in the minds, but the mediocre pitching, hitting and fielding the last years should be a concern for the discerning fans.
*last few years
Cubs will win the central with 94 – 95 wins. White sox will not.
The delusion is strong in this one.
And the replies are weak in that one.
Vegas and pretty much every expert would disagree with you but I am sure you are right. I wish a facepalm emoji would work
Cubs are more ready than the White Sox. Sure they have some decent talent, but mostly unproven talent. Giolito is a prime candidate to fall off this year from last years preformance. I see the White Sox as the new aged Mets of 2015-2017.. Have the pitching, but suspect defense and decent offense. It will be a 3 year window for them at most, starting this year.
My 2 cents worth on off season plans for the Cubs. As I mentioned earlier this off season-The Cubs do nothing as far as major trades/shake ups. Simply put-The Cubs front office significantly over value the core. Right or wrong…That’s always open for great debate and discussion among baseball fans . The Cubs will want a significant return for players like Bryant, Baez, Rizzo, Contrerras, Schwarber and even Quintanna. All these players have come up in “rumors’ since the off season began. Other organizations won’t cave into the Cubs demands. As far as additions? With the announcement made by Mr. Rickets regarding his desire to stay below the tax bracket this season. There will be limited free agent spending. So the Cubs will continue to nibble around the outer edges of the market. Much like last off season and the early goings so far this off season. Lastly, any chance of the Cubs trading Hayward, Kimbrel, and even Darvish to free up $$$ is remote at best. No front office takes on those types of contracts. Even if the Cubs attach a core player or one of their limited, higher ends minor league players to move $$$ is unlikely to happen. No front office from other organizations will make that move.
They were ouldnt get much for Rizzo. Aging first baseman with serious injury questions are nearly worthless in the current mob regardless of past performance or clubhouse presence.
Rizzo is not “old” and what “serious injury questions” does Rizzo have?
Regardless you may be correct as I am not sure how much value first baseman really have anyway. Rizzo is good but first base may be one of the more easier positions for teams to fill internally or by by trading for or signing someone else and moving them to first.
Rumors are the Mets are willing to move first base prospect Dom Smith in a package to unload a bad contract. Not sure how many teams would even be interested in that
Rizzo is Theo’s pet (anyone remember when he traded him to San Diego, cried, became the Cubs’ GM, and traded back for Rizzo?), Bryant deserves to win his grievance and go elsewhere, and Contreras is a terrible catcher who should have long since been moved to RF.
Contreras is a terrible catcher? Okie dokie. He probably would be starting for at least 26 teams in the mlb if not more.
Always nice to know the Southsiders are following Cubs news…….because their team is boring !
If Rizzo got traded, we would lose the team leader for the last several years of a player getting tagged out between second & third base !
Cubs do not need a second baseman…..we have Nico Hoerner !
Addison Russell lawyers are going to court to tell a judge he cannot pay those child support payments.
I bet his wife regrets her accusations now after seeing him with other women ! You did not think that one through !
Yikes.
These other teams fans who give us GARBAGE in Cubs trades……..it is nice for them to Dream……..keeps them out of trouble !
Someone said half of Cubs fans would walk away from the Cubs if they traded away Rizzo……..if they did, there would be still millions more Cubs fans than what your team has !
( Drop the mic )
So you take pride in being mindless.
Maybe I am wrong, but I believe some Rendon suitors might be waiting for Kris Bryant free agency ….which might happen in 2020 instead of 2021…………but I think the Arbitrator will side with the Cubs in Bryant’s grievance………the Union agreed with that provision in their last contract.
Rendon is better than Bryant and is available now so I do not think anyone is going to pass on Rendon to wait on Bryant.
What would be more interesting is for the Cubs to sign Rendon themselves and trade Bryant. The Cubs taking Rendon not only helps the Cubs naturally but also by taking him off the market creates a bigger trade market for Bryant
Kris Bryant might have more trade value this July than what Theo is hearing by next week !
With my belief that the Cubs win the grievance you may be correct.
If Rizzo was traded…Theo would package Lester or Chatwood with him !…….and some desperate team would take the bait !
I think Lester has a no trade clause. In any event I would not see Theo trying to move Lester. They need pitching even if Lester is declining he is contract remaining is not long term
As for Chatwood this is the last year of his contract so if the Cubs wanted to package him his $12m or $13m deal would not really scare anyone off.
Can anyone point the direction where to find the Milwaukee Brewers World Series trophy ?
Must be buried under all that snow in Wisconsin !
Is there a date when Bryant’s grievance will be decided? If I were another team I wouldn’t make a trade for him until I knew if I was getting 1 or 2 years. The Cubs used the rule to their advantage, I think they should win.
3 weeks ago they kept saying by today Bryant grievance would be decided . They should make decision before winter meetings
The pieces worth trading are KB and Contreras. I would target the Angels for KB (Jo Adell, Griffin Canning) and the Rays for Contreras (yeah, I know they signed Zunino but Contreras is at another level comparatively, targeting Brendan McKay and Joey Wendle or Brandon Lowe)
If moving on from KB and Contreras makes us more stable/better long term, we should do it.
How about packaging Heyward with a Baez/Bryant /Contreras / or Rizzo? Get less in return but lose albatross contract
Why on earth would you trade Baez? There is literally no package of players worth moving him for.
Good point
So Mikel you want ti give away Javy Baez in his prime who plays one of the most important positions of shortstop and who is MVP candidate to shed a contract?
Boy I wish I could negotiate against you anytime. How blatantly foolish that suggestion is … wow … words cannot say how poor an idea that is
Trade Contreras, Almora, Alzolay to the royals for Merrifield, Top 100 prospect Lynch (LHP).
Trade Bryant to the Braves for 2 top 100 prospects (Kyle Wright RHP, Drew Waters OF)
Sign Didi Gregorious for SS depth and to play 2nd or 3rd, could be had for 4 years 75 million
Sign Donaldson for 4 years 66 million (similar to Moose)
Sign a quality backup catcher
So you replace bryant and Wilson salaries with Didi and Donaldson salaries
Then you have 5 top 100 prospects in your system (counting the 2 Cubs already have.
And you have managable contracts and salaries with Didi and Donaldson
Baby bear that is all interesting. I think the biggest issue is the FA contracts you suggest. Donaldson is going to get more than Moose I believe. As for Didi that is a huge offer for someone coming off such a bad season.
Of course the FA deals could be negotiated. I do like your creative thinking though
I could see him getting more like 3 for 51 too, which I would love. I think Donaldson could go for 4 and 80, which is not terrible for a corner IF guy that can still play if healthy. Plus corner guys age well anyway.
So essentially it would be about 37 million a year tied up in Didi and Donaldson for 3 years as opposed to worrying about extending Bryant.
Lineup would be
Merrifield (CF)
Baez (SS)
Rizzo (1st)
Donaldson (3rd)
Schwarber (LF)
Didi (2nd)
Heyward (RF)
Carantini (C)
Pitcher
Happ as utility, backup catcher, Hoerner Utility, and some other ST guys that emerge
I would also sign a Ryu to a 4 year deal that is around the same mark as Chatwood with a buyout option for the cubs after year 2 and 3.
Already have Wick, Wieck, Chatwood, Kimbrel in the pen and those guys were useful. Now just need a lefty, also need starter depth so the new top 100 pitchers have a year to develop.
It leaves some holes, but that is a formidable lineup and quality back ups that can play multiple positions.
They’re not trading Rizzo or Baez. It would have to be a massive overpay for them to trade KB. I can only think of 2 teams that have the need for him plus the talent to acquire him. Braves and Phillies. It would take Bohm, Howard, and Moniak to get him. Doubt the Phillies would do that. The Braves would have to trade either Pache or Waters plus 2 of Fried, Wright, Touki, or Anderson. And, maybe even Riley. I don’t see the Braves giving all that it would take to get a deal done. So, KB will stay put. Contreras is the guy that they should try to trade. They have a good enough Catcher to replace him in Caratini. I personally think Contreras is the best Catcher in the league. Definitely, top 3. Caratini is underrated. I think he is at least top 30 if not higher. Really only can think of 3 teams that has a need for Contreras and the pieces to get him. Padres, Ray’s, and Braves. Maybe the Rockies, too. The Cubs need a young controllable SP. The Padres aren’t trading Paddack or Gore for him. I think the Braves match up well in a trade for Contreras. I’d ask for Flowers, Pache, and Touki. The Rockies could trade Jon Gray and Tapia for him. Would the Ray’s part with Glasnow or Snell in a deal. Probably not, but a fun trade with Contreras, Schwarber, Almora, and Marquez for Snell, Zunino, and Kiermier could be nice. The Ray’s would be trading their 2 highest paid players improving their OF and Catcher positions. Personally, if I’m the Cubs. I’d go after some of their Rp’s like Castillo or Alvarado. So, something like Contreras for Zunino, Richard’s, and Alvarado.
BUT, the Cubs will hold onto all of them. Probably add someone like Gausman.
What offseason plans.