The Indians are known to be looking for infield help this offseason, and MLB Network’s Jon Heyman reports (via Twitter) that Cleveland is one of the clubs with interest with the recently non-tendered Cesar Hernandez. The Phillies elected to cut Hernandez loose earlier this month rather than pay him a projected $11.8MM salary through the arbitration process.
As a Super Two player, Hernandez has already scored some nice paydays (totaling $15.4MM) over his first three arb years. However, his price tag simply got too large for the Phillies’ liking after his second consecutive year of subpar offense. A broken foot in the second half of the 2018 season was seemingly the root cause of Hernandez’s issues in that year, though his struggles continued in 2019, as he hit .279/.333/.408 with 14 homers over 667 plate appearances. It worked out to only a 92 wRC+/91 OPS+ in terms of offensive production, while his .303 xwOBA put him in the bottom 18th percent of all batters.
Even in his prime offensive years of 2016-17, Hernandez didn’t generate much hard contact or exit velocity, instead relying on a high walk rate. It should be noted that Hernandez had a cumulative .358 BABIP over those two seasons, and a reduction in his batted-ball luck (.314 BABIP in 2018-19) surely played a role in his diminished production. Defensively, Hernandez has been somewhat of a mixed bag over his career, with -11 Defensive Runs Saved and a +0.6 UZR/150 over 5890 2/3 innings at second base, though those metrics actually went in the other direction (+6 DRS, -0.7 UZR/150) in 2019.
Overall, Hernandez generated 3.8 fWAR over the 2018-19 seasons, still a pretty decent amount of value given his relative lack of offense. Heyman indicated that multiple teams are in on Hernandez, who has been a popular trade target in past years, though it’s probably fair to assume that his lack of offense will make him affordable for the cost-conscious Indians.
With Jose Ramirez slated to play either second base or (the team’s preference) third base next season, the Tribe have been considering infielders for either the keystone or the hot corner. The switch-hitting Hernandez has hit righties better than lefties over the last two seasons but has pretty even splits over his career, and he would add even more flexibility to a Cleveland lineup that already features switch-hitters Ramirez, Carlos Santana and Francisco Lindor (plus part-timers Sandy Leon and Greg Allen).
A Donaldson and Indians reunion could work but im not sure if both parties would like that.
Well the Indians are frantically trying to deal all their best paid players so…
The Indians are not “frantically trying to deal all their best paid players”…..
Totally a media narrative.
They traded off Kluber and his salary as they have 7 young starting pitchers coming into Spring Training. They now have 2 young relief pitchers to work with that throw 100 mph – and along with the Rays and Astros they are the best in MLB in developing young pitchers.
They have no reason to trade Lindor at this point, and I have no idea where the nonsense started that they want to trade one of their 2 aces – Mike Clevinger – affordable and under control for another 3 years.
The Indians rebuild-on-the-fly is about complete. They have quality youngsters all over the place, along with a few vets such as Carlos Santana (mentoring Franmil Reyes…among others); and Catcher Roberto Perez – the AL’s Platinum Glove Defensive player of the year in 2019 – handling the young pitchers.
Add in the best manager in MLB, and the last thing they need to do is trade everyone away and rebuild. It’s fun to talk about the White Sox “potential” and the Twins contention – although they both need at least 2 starters, but the Indians should take that division in 2020 if they remain even fairly healthy.
I’d say you have to put the Dodgers towards the top at drafting, signing, and developing pitchers. They’ve been doing it for years and years. From finding foriegn pitchers to drafting and developing. Kofax, Valenzuela, Drysdale, Nomo, Perdro Martinez, Oral Hershiser, Kershaw, Ryu, Buehler, Maeda, Krota, Park, Urias, and etc etc etc. With more on the way like May and Goslion that both pitched great in the small sample size the were in the bigs in 2019. L.A. also has drafted and developed a ton of great position players. Including a string of like 7 ROY awards in the 90s that included Piazza, Nomo, Karros, Mandosi, etc.. They even drafted and developed a stud catcher Carlos Santana that they traded you guys for a over the hill Casey Blake If the Indians could get some elite young future studs like Lux, May, and Goslion from the Dodgers for Lindor it makes sense for both teams. Only if L.A. locked up Lindor for 10 years. Seager goes to 3rd, Lindor SS, Turner 1st and Muncy 2nd. But it only works if he signs an extension. Even then as a Dodgers fan I’d hate to see Lux and May go. But Lindor is soo good hed be worth it. Either way the Indians could still have a shot at winning the AL Central even after the trade. I’ve always loved Lindor and like the Indians, but it’s a shame they have to think of trading a player like Lindor because they know they cant afford to resign him
Lol this dude is trying to defend the Indians garbage trade
Ikr. Terry francona is below many managers in the mlb and the Indians offense isn’t that good. Vandals ur saying that everything possible will go right and that’s if no players have down years or get injured. I’m not saying they’re gonna be bad but ur overhyping them way too much for what they are rn
Roberto Perez hasn’t won a platinum glove, stop it… gold glove and fielding bible award? Sure… but prying the platinum glove away from matty Chapman… nah bruh, just nah
Assuming you are a tigers fan by your handle. How was that return on Verlander?
Tigersfan Vandals was simply pointing out the Indians are not trying to unload all their large contracts. He never mentioned the trade as being good or bad.
@ Vandals
Excellent analysis as usual Vandals…although in the Kluber thread I did take issue with you saying you expect Deshields to be a part of a platoon that shoves Mercado into a corner OF spot. I don’t expect that to happen at all. I wouldn’t be surprised if Delino fails to make the team, he shouldn’t be any more than an expensive 26th man at best.
I’d have felt a whole lot better if Tyler Naquin hadn’t been hurt last year in his valiant attempt to keep our wildcard hopes alive. I’m fearful he is going to lose his athleticism even when recovered and he had evolved into an excellent defender and viable part of a platoon with Luplow. Suddenly we’re down a left-handed bat in the OF, unless we deem Daniel Johnson ready (he could be). I don’t like the idea of Franmil playing much (any) outfield as he’s brutal out there, and if there is a role for Delino, it would be as an expensive caddy for Reyes, but heck, Greg Allen could do that just as well. I expect the Tribe continues to be evaluating OF options.
Can’t say I’m too excited about this Cesar Hernandez idea, as I would expect it would take more than a one year deal. And I know the Tribe is reluctant to move Ramirez to second, but if they believe Nolan Jones will be ready in 2021, why are we delaying the inevitable? I really have no problem with Ramirez at 2nd and Chang at 3rd if Yu comes in ready to go.
Jeff Shaw’s kid would give CLE a placeholder for Jones and a bat at 1b when Santana leaves following 2020.
Never happen. They never give him a 3-4 year contract.
Rather see them trade DeShields + (?) to the Pirates for Frazier.
I don’t know what the hell Pittsburgh would want with Deshields. A light hitting outfielder with 2 years of control.
That’s why I included the + (?). That would be the deal kicker. Duh.
Yankees should trade for Lindor. Start with Greg Bird +.
The + is the ”deal kicker”….
LOL
Greg Bird isn’t on the Yankees. He was DFA’ed.
As for Lindor….
A) The Indians have no reason to trade him, and
B) If the Yankees want to trade, the Indians will take back Gleyber and either Urshela or Andujar…Indians might include a so-so prospect or a relief pitcher such as Adam Cimber or Oliver Perez back.
The sad fact is that baseball media people and most fans think the Indians FO is desperate and ignorant – they’re not…..and those people need to look in the mirror.
That was a joke. What the hell is wrong with you two? The lunacy of starting a trade offer with someone insignificant to the actual deal was my point. And Great tangent Vandals. Completely unrelated to anything. I could’ve said Mike Clevinger for Luis Cessa.
Let me try this again
Thor for Brad Peacock +
The + is the “deal kicker”
Now that I took the Indians out of it, do you get it? there’s no emotions involved now at a perceived slight against your favorite front office. Because I hate to tell you but it had nothing to do with the Indians front office.
Let me try this again
Thor for Chris Devenski +
The + is the “deal kicker”
Now that I took the Indians out of it, do you get it? there’s no emotions involved now at a perceived slight against your favorite front office. Because I hate to tell you but it had nothing to do with the Indians front office.
It went over their heads… lol. Maybe add blake rutherford.
Blake swihart on a sign and trade. The kicker is refsnyder
Torres isn’t going anywhere. Besides, he’s got more value than Lindor.
Nah, I think that in your non-stop eagerness to crap on everything I post, you threw your ignorance out there for all to see. But nice attempt (not) at trying to cover yourself.
And nowhere did I state that DeShields would be the headliner. He would be the beginner, with the attachment being the key/kicker. You know, like in the return for Kluber.
Anyone who understands how Cleveland’s FO operates knows clearly well that the kid was the headliner/kicker in that deal, not a fourth outfielder who can’t hit.
Oh spare me the sob story. I haven’t commented on a thing you’ve said in months. Cut the crap. it was a dumb post and it flew 6 miles over your head.
Deshields was clearly not the headliner. After your second post that was obvious….. Starting a trade with an insignificant player and only talking about the insignificant player in a trade proposal is pretty useless. Referring to the important part as the “+” is dumb. I’m guessing you won’t get that though.
And like clockwork, you prove me right. I rest my case.
Being wrong in-style again, Jbigz. Surprised you’re awake this early in the afternoon on the East Coast. To steal a line you like to you on others.: delete your account.
Lol.
How do you guys possibly come to the conclusion you’re trying to make? What makes it so hard to just accept reality?
@jbigz12
I got what you were saying and it was funny and a good analogy.
Funny how we Tribe fans get upset with other teams think they can unload dreck on us, but then we turn around and think we can unload $2.5 million of worthlessness on the poor, unsuspecting Pirates.
Delino Deshields should never be uttered in any trade suggestion even if it comes with an unnamed “kicker.”. He was foisted on the Tribe just so the Rangers could defray a little of the Kluber contract.
I’m a huge supporter of the Tribe front office, but if anyone there thinks Delino Deshields has any value whatsoever given our roster makeup–Greg Allen and Bradley Zimmer would have no problem putting up a 76 OPS+ given that many AB’s–then someone is nuts. And I don’t think we are, at least I hope not.
I agree with you on Cleveland’s FO being one of the best out there. The track record speaks for itself.
I don’t think if I’d put them #1 but they’d be up there.
Track record alone does not make you immune to a bad deal though. Clase is an interesting reliever. Relievers can obviously be very valuable commodities but they’re volatile. We’ll see how this deal shakes out but you would’ve liked to see something else come over in the deal. Obviously if Clase pans out to be a very good to elite back end of pen guy, it’ll be okay. But that’s still a big if. Deshields provides little to nothing on that Indians squad. He’s about as superfluous as they come.
You’d have to think, unless they felt Kluber was never going to return to even 85-90% of his prior form, that this package is a little light though. There’s really no safety net in the deal if Clase fails. Clase isn’t Gleyber Torres. If Kluber was rolling a couple months into the season, I’d imagine they would’ve gotten significantly more. We’ll see how it shakes out.
And the Indians overwhelming strength was their rotatiom. I realize how good they are at developing arms but is that the overwhelming strength? Bieber and Cleve are studs. But Cookie is coming off something serious. Plesac looked like a regression candidate. Civale had a wonderful start; but that was just a start. You’re now counting on these guys as your 5. Obviously you have the two lefties in Allen and Moss waiting- but they’re also unproven. The Indians rotation will obviously be above average but I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes a step back.
Did I start the trade with him? Not really. I just said I’d rather try getting Frazier by attempting to include DD in the trade. Why? Because I also know he’s worthless to the current outfield structure in Cleveland.
That’s how teams try to get rid of these types of players. Duh.
Remember, this is Pittsburgh I’m talking about. A team that actually wanted Lonnie Chisenhall and Erik Gonzalez. Thus, the inclusion of DD.
Duh again.
jbigz12
I think the risk was there in Kluber. If there was more out there to be had, I’m sure the Tribe would have explored it. It defies reason if Kluber were regarded as even a sure #4, the offers wouldn’t have been there. We can’t conclude the deal was light if the market was deeming otherwise. The Tribe probably kicked a million tires over the last year.
Clase is definitely intriguing, and sure relievers are volatile. But this guys’ stuff is novel as this Fangraphs profile showed. blogs.fangraphs.com/emmanuel-clase-is-wondrous/
Other executives at The Athletic were quoted as saying Clase was already one of the most valued reliever assets in the game.
You can’t say the Tribe front office hasn’t earned the right to have the benefit of the doubt on this one. No, they don’t walk on water (giving Danny Salazar a $10 million golden parachute last year turned out to be insane) but they haven’t made major gaffes in signings since Nick Swishe/Michael Bourn and no abysmal trades since acquiring Ubaldo Jimenez..
Do I think Kluber would have fetched more had his ability been reestablished this summer? Surely, In fact, I believe the odds are better than even that he gives the Rangers 175 innings of good, though not dominating innings this summer (I think the year off will do him a world of good). But the Tribe felt the risk wasn’t worth it, much like they felt about Michael Brantley. They were wrong about that, and they may be wrong about Kluber, but unlike other teams, we simply can’t sweep mistakes under the rug. That’s the problem with small markets…you can’t even be casual with prudent risks. At least not very often.
I get it. And I hope it works out for them. I’ve actually read that article. Clase is an interesting arm. There’s no question about that. A guy who can get the ball on the ground with that kind of stuff is interesting.
Thats a good point on holding Kluber 2 months then trying the trade out then based on results….sure you risk losing everything but more than likely your educated gamble provides you a much more substantial package-
Another thing to ponder though is maybe they think Kluber is just cooked 100%…. I know everyone here has a take (mostly based on past results) but you have to figure Cle has the best “read” on the situation meaning i wouldnt doubt if Kluber IS cooked and has higher odds than most think to even get his option next yr (1118 mill) picked up (30+%)
**(18 mill) option
Tribefan plays the perfect victim. I’ve never seen someone answer like a condescending toolbag and get upset when he gets clapped back.
Condescending toolbag? For having an opinion that doesn’t agree with others, who obviously have no freakin idea how a team operates? A team I’ve been following since the 60’s?
Folks on this app are quick to accuse others of a behavior that is exactly the same as theirs. They’re just too ignorant to realize it.
Mets arent trading Thor at least not yet — if it does happen San Diego or the Dodgers will be Thor’s landing spot
I don’t think Frazier is much of an upgrade over Hernandez. I’d rather have Hernandez on a 1 or 2 year deal which you could eventually trade for more than have to deal players from the farm if I’m the Indians right now.
Frazier probably won’t be very costly. The Indians are always looking to save their dimes. Frazier will make 3.25 MM this year and probably 7 next year. That beats having to pay Hernandez say 8 a pop…That’s just how the Indians look at these things given the budget they work with.
Phillies tried reading Hernandez for 2 years which resulted in a non tender. I doubt the Indians would have much more luck finding a taker.
I’m good on Donaldson with the tribe after ’18. Cesar Hernandez is intriguing.
César is a good option for Cubs
Cesar is good at accumulating at bats…..
Sandy Leon gets mentioned!!??
The career 63 OPS guy?
LOL!
You really need to learn about Catchers and how they influence a pitching staff.
The Red Sox took off in 2018 when they inserted Moreland – a great defender – at 1B; and made Leon the primary Catcher.
Yuk. Yuk. Yuk.
The reason the Indians have such successful pitching is because they employ Catchers that can handle their Pitchers. Save your OPS and other nonsensical stats for your rotisserie league. MLB is played on the field by humans….and it’s a team game….try playing it sometime.
Thank God we all have you here to teach us so much about baseball.
That’s complete BS. It takes at least a full season of a catcher and pitcher combo to really set in and he didn’t comment sandy Leon because of his defense, it’s because of his awful offense. Bro you’ve been exposed so much in this comment section stop making crap comments already.
Awesome, Vandals. So, uhmm, how come the Sox didn’t take off in 2019? I mean, they had Moreland and Leon. They even DFA’d Swihart to bring Leon back up but never really took off.
Players suck and they still get raises in arbitration!!?? I’m all
for the players getting what they can but not when they don’t
deserve it! How to fix this broken system?
Make the contracts more like NFL contracts — Mets have that loser Edwin Diaz who couldnt get his grandmother out and they say he is going to get a 1 mil raise — SAY WHAT !?!?!!!!!!! — Mets should cut him loose or send him to Baltimore– I’m with you Diaz should have his pay CUT !!!!!!
Indians need to suck it up and sign Donaldson.
If Rameriz is healthy again – as he was the last 10 weeks of the season – they have a 3B far better then Donaldson, and even better then Rendon.
You need to shut up. Ramírez is not at the level of Rendon, ok? These comments are very stupid and you need to stop being so biased towards the Indians
Shut up twinsfan, look at Jose Ramirez stats. A lot better than rendon in 17-18.
Bro I’m just saying Rendon has been super consistent over the past 4 years and Ramírez has had ups and downs except for his mvp caliber year. Rendon has had way better stats than Ramírez
Donaldson 3B Jose 2B
The Tribe is NOT sighing Donaldson, get over it.
If the Braves can’t sign him after that year he just gave them, why on earth do you think we can?
We don’t swim in those waters, c’mon, get real.
If the Dolan’s weren’t so cheap the ideal situation would be to try to sign Josh Donaldson to a 1 year contract (I know, he’s probably looking for more than just a 1 year contract) and move Jose Ramirez to second which is his better position anyway.
But, the Cheap Dolan’s would never agree to pay for Donaldson.
No one smart is giving Donaldson three or four years, but his agent will certainly find some colossally dumb team to do it.
Fortunately, we’re wiser than that.
He’ll probably flourish in Cleveland. He had a few nice years in Philly. Not quite sure the Phils made the right move giving up on him.
He can hit at times, and he can run at times. He was in a bad situation in Philly with that awful manager. While Francona can often get the most out of players, and Santana knows him from playing with the Phils for a year, it’s going to take a masterful job by Tito to get Hernandez to stay awake and involved in the game when he’s playing.
One of the most inconsistent players I’ve watched the past few years. Lot’s of talent, but it only comes out in spurts.
They made the right move for 11 million bucks. Segura is a better hitter. Didi is a better SS. The defense is upgraded and the offense should be too—As long as Didi comes back to his old levels.
Now, they would’ve been better off had they not traded for Segura last year and been able to have Hernandez/Gregorious on ST pacts. But you can’t change the past.
You must not watch many Phillies games. If you know what a heads-up player is then think the opposite when you think about Cesar.
So the tribe are going to spend their newfound budget savings from the Kluber trade and spend it on this plug?
Sorry to hear that. Feel bad for the folks in Cleveland!
Three paragraphs of why Hernandez sucks doesn’t exactly fill me with Christmas warmth.
Always liked Cesar. Runs like a deer. He would just have these bewildering brain farts. Forget fundamentals. Frustrating yet talented
Wrong Jose Ramirez.
Watched Cesar Hernandez during his entire stay with the Phillies. Probably one of the most under appreciated players the Phillies ever had. Guy just goes out there and does his job day in and day out. There aren’t too many 2B available this cheaply who can give you a .280 BA and double-digit HR and SBs.
Stick Cesar atop a lineup with the Indians pop, and the guy just might score 150 runs. Has a good eye and knows how to work the count. Cesar is very underrated IMHO.
If he ends up in Cleveland I hope the fans by the lake will give him lots of love.
Heck yeah, hope they sign him.
I agree with Lou, and as a Phillies season ticket holder, I’ve watched Caesar up close since his debut in 2013. He has gobs of talent. He knows how to work a count and he has pop. He’s a great baserunner and a nice glove at 2B. Kapler def didnt do him any justice. I think he would be a nice fit on the Cubs, who could use him as lead off hitter where he can showcase his OB skills and above average speed/baserunning. Caesar also has a knack for popping one just at the right time. Very underrated player, although I agree with the Phillies decision to non-tender him at 11mil with the likes of Segura and Kingery best suited for 2B.
That’s not how you spell Puig
Lol “struggling” at .279 average? That’s pretty dumb
The Indian are tanking. If Manfred wants to endear himself, he needs to force Cleveland’s owners (and Miami, Oakland, etc.) to sell the team to someone who can be bothered to pay enough players to be actually trying.
They are not tanking, c’mon now
They aren’t trying, either. They shed $10 mil before the 2019 season and didn’t sign anyone when all it would have taken was one (1) guy to catch Minnesota in late August. Instead they stood pat because they ran away with the division since 2016, no one could predict an Ace getting Leukemia, and the bottom line was profitable without adding an impact bat.
The Indians are not tanking at all
So I’m curious if he can play 3B. I know he doesn’t profile super well over there, but idk… if we aren’t getting JD or another power bat, he might be an interesting target. Ozzie use to play SS. Maybe he can play over at 3B. Or Shift Swanson over and fill in the gaps. Idk. Obviously none of this is ideal… just brainstorming in blog forum
Thinking outside the box here… would the braves be interested in a close, but not quite there/unproven corner bat?
ATL has a little payroll room left. If you bundled say Casas with Price and about 10m paid off price’s salary, does that pry a young mlb-ready right hander for boston’s rotation, plus a pair of lower level prospects?
It’d give a vet pitcher on a 3 yr deal, a power corner infield bat, and only add 20m salary.
Sometimes people pay too much attention to some of these crazy sabermetrics. One thing as a Phillies fan I can assure you is Hernandez gets a very, very low baseball IQ. And for someone who runs as fast as he does he’s not a good baserunner or very adept at stealing bases.
@ Jackie Bradley Jr. “He’s a 3 win player!” He never robs home runs and plays truly exceptional defense that would suggest his .220 batting average is worth playing until it’s mid-July, the Sox are out, and they’re playing a garbage team such as Seattle or Kansas City..
Thank you Dakota Joe. Phillie 2020 may be a season tix holder but I have witnessed a totally different Cesar than him. Low baseball IQ. Can’t steal bases. Runs the team out of innings, mental errors. Sure, he did nice things on the field but there was no progression from 2013
I was a full season ticket holder for many years until two years ago. Still watch all the time would rank Hernandez (along with Adubel Herrera) as two of the lowest IQ players I’ve ever seen. Don’t get me wrong I’d rather have Hernandez but that’s not saying much. I was thrilled when the Phillies let him go.
Sign Castro or Hernandez to play 2b and Castellanos for RF. That should give them a good chance to win the AL Central. The Twins will have the better offense but the Indians will have the better starting pitching.
Starlin Castro?!? The guy with a 0.8 WAR–that’s ZERO POINT EIGHT!–in 676 plate appearances last year? Do you have any earthly idea how hard that is to do? I mean, Mike Freeman had almost double that in less than a third of the PA’s.
Good grief I don’t know where we get these ideas. And Castellanos as a regular RF in Cleveland? What a disaster defensively that would be. No thanks.. You don’t undermine good pitching with defensive mediocrities like Castro and Castellanos.
Yikes didn’t realize Castro was that bad last year. I guess that’s what happens when you play for the Marlins – nobody hears about you anymore.
Castellanos was find defensively in Chicago wasn’t he?
Yikes didn’t realize Castro was that bad last year. I guess that’s what happens when you play for the Marlins – nobody hears about you anymore.
Castellanos was fine defensively in Chicago wasn’t he?
Let me give you a hint about Nick Castellanos. He’s nearly 28 and has played more or less regularly for six years now. In that time, his career WAR is LESS than what Marcus Semien put up last year.
Think about that. “How could that possibly be?” you might ask. The answer: that’s how ghastly Nick Castellanos is with a glove on his hand (for evidently no apparent purpose).
He’s a pure DH masquerading as a full-time player and we already have one of those named Franmil Reyes.
Didn’t he improve defensively with the Cubs? I thought I heard that. I don’t really have time to look this stuff up though.
Nope. Same guy. Besides, by the time you’re 28, your defense simply isn’t going to improve. You pretty much are who you are.
Thats a good point on holding Kluber 2 months then trying the trade out then based on results….sure you risk losing everything but more than likely your educated gamble provides you a much more substantial package-
Another thing to ponder though is maybe they think Kluber is just cooked 100%…. I know everyone here has a take (mostly based on past results) but you have to figure Cle has the best “read” on the situation meaning i wouldnt doubt if Kluber IS cooked and has higher odds than most think to even get his option next yr (1118 mill) picked up (30+%)