The Blue Jays and Red Sox are discussing a deal that would send veteran starter David Price to Toronto, according to The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal. While Rosenthal is quick to note that an official move isn’t close yet, it’s nonetheless notable that Price is in play for a Blue Jays team that has made abundantly clear its desire to upgrade the starting rotation.
The progress of the teams’ negotiations will hinge on Boston’s willingness to cover some portion of the remaining three years and $96MM on Price’s contract. It’s been no secret that the Red Sox, aiming to duck beneath the luxury tax threshold for 2020, are seeking a taker for Price, Nathan Eovaldi, or both. However, the team has simultaneously expressed its disinclination to include a promising piece simply to facilitate a trade. While that would strengthen the return for Price, and likely decrease the amount of cash needed to move him, it would either detract further from the big league roster or eat into an already-thin farm system.
Furthermore, attaching a more attractive player to Price likely isn’t necessary: the Red Sox, for their part, are said to be investigating other options for Price, who has garnered interest from other teams, including the Padres, Cardinals, and Reds, among others. He’s a valuable pitcher, albeit one who hasn’t lived up to the expectations that came with his $217MM price tag. So it makes sense that pitching-needy teams should explore whether they Price can be had for, say, $20MM annually.
From Boston’s point of view, it’s worth nothing that even offloading $20MM of Price’s yearly salary won’t be enough to get them under the tax line. As Rosenthal states, Roster Resource pegs the Sox’ current luxury tax obligations at nearly $238MM, meaning that almost all of Price’s salary would have to come off the books if they are to sneak under the $208MM luxury tax threshold. Of course, that’s part of why Eovaldi and Mookie Betts have also been named as candidates to be traded this winter.
Price, of course, made brief stint with Toronto in 2015, when he was acquired from the Tigers at the trade deadline. To be sure, remnants from that 2015 team are few and far between, with a new front office and manager in place, as well as a completely refreshed core of youthful position players.
The Jays have been frequently linked to free-agent southpaw Hyun-Jin Ryu, who looks like the last remaining top-flight starter on the market. However, with Bob Nightengale of USA Today reporting that as many as seven teams are in the running for Ryu’s services, there’s a very real possibility that Toronto will strike out on that front and be forced to pivot to alternate means of improving the rotation. They’ve already added Tanner Roark and Chase Anderson, but lack a real number one after trading Marcus Stroman last year.
nickyfives
If they eat lots of that contract, I’d be glad to have him.
Big Hurt
If they wanted to eat his contract that would most likely keep him, right?
joshua.barron1
No I think if Toronto assumed half the contract and gave a good but not great prospect package we would get rid of him in a heartbeat
Phanatic 2022
If price were a FA today with his injury struggles last year do you think he would get a 3 year deal at 16M per?
aamatho18
Yes
dynasty in boston
My instincts scream yes. If only I had the data to support the observation
deweybelongsinthehall
I’m thinking to trade intra-division, there would have to be a premium such as Toronto will absorb more $$$ than other clubs or Boston is using their interest to try to increase interest from the other teams.
123redsox
Considering price is in his mid 30s and the jays won’t be competing, I’m not sure if their being in the same division matters
richardgoezinya
Only if they were crazy.
He will be 35 next season and he’s thrown 107 innings or fewer in two of the last three seasons and had a 4.28 ERA last year. Talk about a recipe for disaster. No way any one is going to give up a legit prospect for him, most likely the other way around.
Empire Exoticz
This is not the case where a team is trading a really good player. Its D. Price not Betts. If anything, the ones who need to add good prospects is Boston.
steve dolan
Yes, easily
hyraxwithaflamethrower
White Sox were looking at him and the rumor was the Red Sox wanted Madrigal and Vaughn (both top 40 overall) and didn’t want to pay off tons of the contract. Red Sox are seriously overvaluing Price if that’s true.
rbm915
The White Sox would have also received Benintendi in the deal mentioned above.
juanpursuit
What rumors are you looking at? That is completely false.
whitesoxfan24
No, it isn’t false. Peter Gammons tweeted it. It did include Benintendi as rbm915 mentioned, but it’s still a tremendously high ask with 96 mil due to Price over 3 years.
nymetsking
If Peter Gammons tweeted it, then it’s obviously completely false.
whitesoxfan24
Yeah, obviously. Even though he used to be one of the most connected baseball reporters in his day. I’m sure he doesn’t have any of those connections today. While it may not be 100%, I’m sure there was quite a bit of merit to it.
Ketch
I think Boston asked for those two in response to CWS insisting on Benintendi and money along with Price. In short, Boston killed that deal.
JoeBrady
No, it isn’t false. Peter Gammons tweeted it.
——————————————————
It’s time accept that writers make these things up. No one will accuse them of being liars, since anything could be true.
But as a RS fan, Benni alone shouldn’t get both Madrigal & Vaughn. Add in the salary of someone like Price, and I’d bet plenty of real money that there is absolutely nothing to the story.
FWIW, after a while, you can recognize when the writers ate lying. It is usually a really bad fit on at least one side, or a completely unrealistic ask on one side.
Just for fun, read up on the Betts rumors. Some say that their ‘sources’ say the RS will get nothing back. Others are suggesting May + Ruiz +?
Mostly complete nonsense on both sides. And if Bloom/Friedman had something going, neither Bloom nor Friedman would be talking to the press.
ffrhb14Sox
Why not ask for a lot while the pitching market shakes out? No reason to make a reasonable trade early that they can easily make later. After Ryu signs then Boston continues to leverage the teams looking for a Price type starter for the best deal.
whitesoxfan24
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing; and I know Chaim is very good at his job. All I’m saying is it’s a tremendously high ask. He’s smart trying to deal with Chicago because I also read that the ChiSox were actually considering it, which is scary to think about.
ffrhb14Sox
What would a trade look like for you for Price and JD? I know it is a lot of coin but I think he’d make your lineup much better and mentor your young guys like he has in Boston.
JoeBrady
I also read that the ChiSox were actually considering it, which is scary to think about.
———————————————
I doubt it, but if they did consider it, I’d drive Benni and Price to Chicago myself, and I’m a RS fan.
MoRivera 1999
If the Red Sox aren’t prepared to eat $13-$15MM/yr of that contract, they’re going to be keeping him and his entire $32MM contract.
aamatho18
They are prepared to
123redsox
The white Sox can get edwin encarnacion to serve the same purpose as Martinez for a fraction of the cost. No reason for the white Sox to entertain that
ffrhb14Sox
Nobody has ever compared EEs preperation and mentoring to JD and JD is a lot younger and more productive. EE would be the Wal Mart version of JD. Its a cheapee option but not as high quality.
123redsox
Encaenacion is known for his work ethic. Just like Martinez, he worked hard to go from average/below average major leaguer to stud.. Neither are young and Edwin could be had at a fraction of the price and without the years of an aging player
richardgoezinya
Even the Red Sox eating up $13 mi, leaves you on the hook for 3-years, $57 mill for a pitcher who will be 37 at the end of that contract.
hiflew
Age doesn’t mean as much for pitchers as it does for sluggers. I mean, Justin Verlander was 36 last year and won the Cy Young. If Price gets healthy, he could be on that level again. He’s been there before.
todd76
He does have a pulse. That fits the Blue Jays normal operations.
Francys01
Price pitched so well when he was with Toronto.
goalieguy41
Pitched well eh. That’s why he was used out of the bullpen in playoffs
dynamite drop in monty
Stick to the ice, chief
firegibby
Price got us into the playoffs.
jmi1950
And won the 2018 WS for the BoSox
Ry.the.Stunner
He was 9-1 with a 2.30 ERA with Toronto. I don’t know how you can even sarcastically act like that’s not good.
Le Grande Orangerie
Exactly. He was taken out of the rotation in the playoffs.
AtlSoxFan
2018 should put the playoff monkey previously on his back to rest
Paul Miller
He came out of the bullpen once between his starts to secure a win in Texas.
It was in Boston that he was used out of the bullpen.
goalieguy41
Yeah right.
DarkSide830
dang, with all these SP additions there will be no room to let their young pitchers get experience.
CanadianJay
Do you really believe Chase Anderson or really any veteran currently on this team is going to hold back a prospect?
Eightball611
Redsox will be tied with the Baltimore the way other teams are building this off-season.
dynamite drop in monty
That’s just silly
Vladguerrerojr20
Baltimore is pathetic.
baldimur
Toronto is also pathetic
shane
It’s cool to not like Toronto, I don’t care.
But The Blue Jays look way better than the orioles as far as the future is concerned
baldimur
The Orioles have a top 10 farm system and the #2 pick in the draft coming up (and probably #1 pick in 2021). I wouldn’t say the Blue Jays future looks “way better”. It could go either way.
shane
Fair enough. I suppose I should have researched a little deeper.
bluejaysfan
Not sure I agree with all of that statement. The O’s farm system is good but not that much better than the Jays and the Jays have called up most of their top guys. From the rankings I looked at the O’s are only two spots up on the Jays in farm rankings. Both of these teams will be at the bottom of the division this year but i would say the near future does look “way better” than the O’s
longsuffering
Toronto is a few years ahead of Baltimore in a rebuild. Top prospects graduated with more on the way. BAL will be fighting with DET for the 1st pick again
Balboni
I would take toronto’s Proven young talent over Baltimore’s lottery tickets any day
baldimur
Fangraphs has Baltimore 10th and Toronto 25th on their farm system rankings.
warren r.
MLB.com has the Blue Jays at #10, Orioles at #13.
Bleacher Report has the Orioles at #11, Blue Jays at #13.
So it’s not a consensus that one farm is significantly better off than the other.
baldimur
Bleacher report, really?
Fangraphs is far more reputable than either of those sites.
jbigz12
I find it hard to believe any source that ranks the Jays farm higher is an up to date source. It was certainly higher before Bichette and Guerrero were called up. But I find it hard to believe it’d still be higher without the pair of them in the system. Biggio graduated as well; I know he was somewhere in their top 10 also. The Orioles didn’t graduate any prospect this season.
That has nothing to do w future outlook but as far as a pure farm system ranking (guys in the minors right now) would go; I would imagine most evaluators would have the O’s ahead.
Kind of a silly thing to argue about anyway because farm rankings change as guys are called up. The Jays aren’t any worse off because their farm is now #18 instead of #7 or something.
jbigz12
Any top prospect.** Means obviously graduated but he wasn’t considered to be much of a prospect.
toddyp19
Prospects in Baseball are for suckers. It takes so long to develop a baseball player and the majority of them don’t work out to be everyday players anyways.
ellisburks
Have you ever watched baseball?
Eightball611
No
richardgoezinya
Give them one more year, then the Dombrowski Effect takes over. They will have lost their best player in Mookie and have bad contracts for aging pitchers….and Moncada will be a superstar in Chicago..
AtlSoxFan
Devers/bogey at 3b/ss + a championship vs putting moncada…. somewhere?
I’ll take the trophy.
theredsoxrule
They will lose Mookie simply because they are smart enough not to offer him a ridiculous contract…
Strike Four
Lindor decision when?
Dbird777
No kidding, man. Reds fan here on pins and needles.
Just waiting for the Tribe to say “sike!” and keep him like they did Kluber last year.
Strike Four
While they continue to dodge winning titles just like they always do lol
Psychguy
It’s good for baseball to see the Jay getting involved and getting media attention rather than reading the same the same teams all of the time.
crazylarry
Toronto , Atlanta, Dodgers, all the same. Talk about who they might sign or trade for and in the end never do a thing to improve.
DTD_ATL
I’d say ATL signing Hamels, Darnaud, and Smith is a little more than never doing anything to improve.
bluejays92
Atlanta’s made some pretty good moves this offseason to be fair.
chippahawk
And when 2/5 of your rotation and your stud 3rd basemen are free agents on a contending team you can bet your going to hear about it on a rumors site, just sayin..
(Plus this site does have a lot of Braves fans so posting their headliners gives them a lot of clicks.)
damhikt
Guess they’re legitimately trying to upgrade. Would be surprised if it actually happened though
Marner#16
Dam kit ,
Lol take him he’s finished probably will miss lots of starts due to playing video games.
pasha2k
The RS will not pay his salary, that is defeating the purpose. Price foes well with younger players. I hope he goes.
kidbryant
They will have to eat half or more of his salary to get rid of him and get anything decent in return.
pasha2k
Never would happen. They may as well keep him for 1/2 the yr if they paying part salary. I heard the Jays are signing the often hurt former Dodger, so guess a Price staying, although those pitchers will give them a good team until their young ins are ready.
AtlSoxFan
Red sox will eat some salary. My guess is about 8-10m/yr depending on what other moving parts are in the deal.
If smart, chaim will stagger the money as well. IE: for an 8m value you see say 5m 2020, 8m 2021, 11m 2022. Helps under the tax the first year and makes later years of the contract cheaper for the other team’s risk profile
macstruts
So you think a team is going to pay Price 22-24 million a year three years.
That’s lunacy.
terry g
Boston’s is paying him 32 million a year for the next 3 years. That’s lunacy.
deweybelongsinthehall
I’m guessing here’s so others with knowledge please chime in. If contracts use AAV for tax purposes I would think that money going with a player would also regardless of when it’s paid.
steve dolan
I think the Sox will have to eat more than that, like 11-13mm/yr. in order to move Price. He’s worth 20mm/year to some other team but no more.
DarkSide830
the Sox will want a replacent SP in return most likely, and that will require eating some salery.
bigdaddyt
Cover half the remaining salary and you got yourself a deal
jaysfan1978
Price + Benintendi for Breyvic Valera. Jays eat all the $.
AtlSoxFan
What are you on, how much did it cost, and where do I get some?
It might be nice to escape reality myself for a bit.
muskie73
According to Baseball Trade Values, David Price has a negative value of $60 million and Andrew Benintendi a surplus value of $35.9 million.:
baseballtradevalues.com/teams/604/
Some fans underestimate the negative value of the $96 million remaining on the Price contract.
AtlSoxFan
Meaningless site with no hard science to back up their numbers which are typically seriously out of whack, and, which they go back and update values after a trade to try and hide just how far off they typically are.
No reality in that one, sorry
muskie73
Over the past three years David Price has posted 6.2 fWAR, valued at $49.8 million, while being paid $91 million, a $41.2,million deficit, or a average annual loss of nearly $14 million.
Pitchers tend to experience a drop in production in the later stages of a seven-year contract, especially when the contract is signed after the pitcher’s 30th birthday. Price’s production in his age 34, 35 and 36 seasons is likely to drop from his production in his age 31, 32 and 33 seasons.
Hence, the negative value of $60 million.
Alternative evidence-based evaluations are welcome.
FWIW, over the past three years Rick Porcello, who recently signed a one-year, $10 million contract, posted the same 6.2 fWAR, valued at $49.8 million.
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&…
AtlSoxFan
What is your evidence that 1.0 fwar does is and must be valued at 8.03m each? That is an arbitray value.
You also ignore the injuries that have been surgically repaired that resulted in lower fwar, AND, you value injury shortened seasons at if they were the rate that fwar is produced as if it was full 162 game campaigns of 30-something starts.
Last year through the allstar break, up to injury, Price pitched to about a 3.16era, and generated over 2 of your fwar in the process.
Over a full campaign which there is no reason to believe will not occur, a healthy price, which all reports show he is at this point, will produce more of this fwar you like to reference than occurred as the average in the last 3 years, which itself is an arbitrary period designed to encompass the two down years he suffered and artifically suppress his true value.
Different pitchers of different throwing styles and talents age differently. I’m sure you feel verlander has no value due to his age either.
How’s that for starters?
As for your edit, porcello in an uninjured campaign posted the worst era in mlb at around 5.22, not exactly a comp to a guy who produced at 3.16 through the all star break when he was injured
muskie73
An MLB Trade Rumors thread is not the place for a tutorial, but here are links to readings:
library.fangraphs.com/misc/war/
community.fangraphs.com/on-war-its-linearity-and-e…
My use of David Price’s three-year stats attracted your wrath before you offered the near-anecdotal one-year stats for Price and Porcello. Analytics will exploit those who rely on anecdotal evidence.
The one-time Cy Young winners certainly derived their three-year worth differently: the sporadic brilliance of Price and the durability of Porcello, who is three years younger than Price.
The injury-history of the 34-year-old Price does not enhance his value.
AtlSoxFan
You raised porcello here as an example you believe to be of equal ability/results, amd thus, what a reasonable contra t market valie shiuld be, not i.
You also appear to miss my points, and still fail to defend your own. Re-read and try again.
Even your own math is wrong. As stated, you first attempt to project price will be equally injured in 2/3 of the upcoming campaigns like the last 3.
Second, you yourself say that, by an arbitrary valuation of what a war is worth, price’s average worth during those last year 3 years produced seasons worth 14m each less than he was paid.
Then, you make another leap presupposing that, somehow, and without anything to substantiate it, that 14m shortfall will increase to 20m per season.
To have 60m in negative value, that means you claim he has about 30m in positive value, or 10m/season.
So, to indulge your fallacies to this point, let’s pretend 1 fwar is worth 8.03m, (which I disagree with anyways)…
When you value price at 10m per year, you say he will post 1.2 fwar in each of the next 3 seasons. That isnt realistic under any reasonable assessment/projection anywhere.
butch779988
No
SalaryCapMyth
Did you at any point stop and ask yourself if this trade favors the Blue Jays just a little to much? I dont know that the Red Sox would do this if Benintendi wasnt in the trade. Valera is swinging a pool noodle at the plate and isnt worth anything himself but if the Red Sox eat even half his contract, Price would have value.
MoRivera 1999
If the Jays ate Price’s whole $32MM/yr contract and didn’t ask for Benintendi, as you suggest, then the Sox would be idiots not to accept Valera in trade. Idiots. A lottery ticket should do it for $32MM. I mean, Price is only worth a bit more than half that. Surely shedding $14MM/year for next to nothing is worth it.
SalaryCapMyth
Absolutely agree with that. If that were the case I would say it heavily favors the Red Sox. I suppose in talking about it like this we created a floor which is to little and a ceiling which is to much.
pasha2k
I don’t think Benni will be sent anywhere, Mookie yes, Benni NO!!
pasha2k
Lol you can tell you a Jays fan, why not send the heart n soul of the team. A trade needs to ideally help BOTH teams, not what happens in the Evil Empire.
jimmertee
The would be a good pickup for the Jays[at the right cost].
Price’s arm should be fine with rest and good sports science. He can still pitch but maybe not 200 innings. Max him out at 150.
DarkSide830
Price and Casas for Zeuch and Shoemaker. Red Sox retain about 20% of Price’s salery this year, 30% next year, and 40% next year. Overall, Red Sox get an replacement for Price in Shoemaker, a potential project starter in Zeuch, and huge savings that may give them an outside shot of resetting their salery cap streak this year. Jays get the possibility of a Price bounceback and a potential future 1B all for a portion of Price’s salery which should decrease year-to-year.
butch779988
No
DarkSide830
well thanks for the feedback
dynamite drop in monty
Makes sense
Bruin1012
Red Sox aren’t trading there number 1 prospect to eat salary. The reality is the Red Sox aren’t trading any of there top prospects to move Price. My guess is the Red Sox eat 10-12 million a year and then it should be a wash maybe a low level prospect coming back to Boston.
DarkSide830
it depends on how much they want to get under the cap. im pretty sure they would like to reset it this year so they dont have to take the draft hit. Losing Casas is a hard pill to swallow, but they need cheap SP, and they have a similar player in Dalbec above him in the system already.
Bruin1012
It’s not going to happen. Once Ryu signs the Red Sox will be able to move price eating like 10-12 million and they will probably get a low level prospect back as well. The price for starting pitching has increased dramatically this offseason I’ll be surprised if they can’t move Price if the Red Sox eat 10-12 million pretty easily.
macstruts
They are not going to trade him only eating 36 million dollars. No one is going to pay Price 20 million for three years and give up any kind of prospect. Nobody.
Bruin1012
Have you seen what these pitchers are getting this offseason? Before the offseason began I would of agreed with you but not know I’m confident they can trade him eating 10-12 million a year. I think you will be surprised when it happens.
AtlSoxFan
Price isn’t a 31m pitcher anymore. But he also isn’t a 10m pitcher either.
He’s worth probably 3.5 – 4.5 war in a healthy season, and, his recent issues haven’t been of a chronic/repetitive nature showing a general breakdown of his body, you need to consider that too. A cyst removal isn’t the same a TJ surgery or chronic shoulder issues.
By my count, and looking at recent contract signings, he should be able to get traded somewhere 8-10m paid down per year, maybe slightly more depending on the return you desire.
I’m sure we will see. If nobody wants to trade for him at that value I’m sure he will suit up for boston next season, as paying down 20m/yr for a guy with his talent and upside is unreasonable considering what kind of replacement you get for that same 10m.
muskie73
Steamer projects David Price with a 2020 WAR of 2.6, a level the 34-year-old injury-slowed lefthander has not surpassed in the past three seasons:
fangraphs.com/players/david-price/3184/stats?posit…
macstruts
What team is making 3 year, 15 million dollar commitments to 34 year old pitchers who has averaged 120 innings a year over the last three years?
About Price, I’d start thinking about it at 15 million. Even that is probably too much because it’s three years.
As far as probably being worth that. Teheran was 2.7 last year. Bundy was 2.3 million last year and they are healthy and they are a combined 14 million dollars a year.
And if we are using the “If he’s healthy”, I’ll go Ryu for 20 million. No way will any team pay 20 million for three years for Price. It’s not going to happen.
Bruin1012
Ryu is going to get more then 20 per year but you are forgetting that right now you simply have to pay for a free agent. The Red Sox are waiting until Ryu signs. Once this happens we will see I believe in a nutshell that price isn’t worth 3/60 on the open market but once Ryu signs someone will overpay for Price that is my prediction. Once teams miss out on Ryu they will have no choice but to overpay to trade for pitchers like Price that will be available.
AtlSoxFan
@muskie – you seem to have just contradicted your arguments above then, and instead supported mine.
If you now say we should trust analytic projections like steamer that call for 2.6 war next season, and you’ve also stated multiple times that 1 war is worth roughly 8m, then 2.6 war is equal to $21.54m of value in 2020.
By my math that puts price’s deal only about 9.5m underwater, a far cry from te 20m/yr negative value you argued for above… your own numbers continue to contradict you
macstruts
I don’t mind predictions. But Four years 80 million will lock up Ruy. If people were going to pay that, they pay it for him.
We’ll see. I think 16 is the limit, and unless Boston kicks in a prospect, I don’t think it will go that high. Do you think 20 is the limit?
AtlSoxFan
Honestly, I think the limit may be set by ryu in a different way.
Keuchel went to a team with some interest in price, BUT, they weren’t tring to keep pace with the arms race between contenders.
I think price has 2 markets in trade – contenders and teams wanting to start trending that way. The trending teams (this is SD, TOR, was CWS, etc have a value in mind and will stick to it.
On the other end you have teams like LAA, maybe LAD, etc who feel pressure to win now, and, with each guy coming off the board *might* raise their offer 1 or 2m in salary relief due to scarcity of remaining pieces.
All offseason I’ve felt Boston’s number on price would check in around 8-10m of salary relief, and putting his “value” at 21-23m/per. Now thats not looking for a valuable return, just what he’s worth to convince bloom to make a move.
I could see a trade varying a couple million from that, plus more variance depending what was moving back and forth. If boston takes back a player with above-league-minimum money on their deal I’d maybe see either less paid down, or, some varying level of prospect coming back attached on top.
I think bloom has a read on the non-contender offers, but, is waiting to see if a team in the arms race will come knocking with an increased valuation due to market scarcity
TheLawAbides
What recent pitcher signings are you comparing Price to? Is it the Wheeler, Cole, Strausburg, Bumgarner? Maybe should look at the Tehran, Rorark, Porcello, G.Gonzalez, Miley. Price is still a “Big Name” so maybe someone will agree to take him at 20M+ a season
Bruin1012
Yes Bob that is what I said above Price will simply cost money and thus will be in demand after Ryu signs. I believe Bloom is waiting until Ryu signs and then will open the bidding there will be several teams that miss out on Ryu and Price becomes much more valuable at that point. Maybe I will be wrong and every team will just purely value him the way most people in this article think but I don’t think so someone will get desperate and pay a much higher price then most hear believe it’s simple supply and demand.
muskie73
Readers can decide what to do with the relevant numbers provided.
But the Steamer projection is optimistic in light of David Price’s failure to reach that level in the past three seasons. It would be more realistic to anticipate the typical decline of a 34-year-old pitcher beset by injuries.
AtlSoxFan
Incorrect.
You realize price had 4.4 war in 2018, and put up about 2 by the allstar break in 2019 before the cyst/wrist issue right?
windmill_noise_causes_cancer
salary*
AtlSoxFan
Shoemaker doesn’t show to be a regular starter – in 2016 he made what, just over 2 dozen starts, in 2017 he made 14, then 2018 made 7 starts, and just 5 last year.
There’s no value there since he eats a roster spot and has no signs of regularly taking the bump – I’d be shocked if he made a dozen appearances next year.
Zeuch is definitely a project. What he’s shown thus far rates him as one of two pieces that need to come back in a David price only trade, no casas throw in.
As far as casas goes, he is part of the long term solution for boston’s own infield at this point, so I don’t see them letting him go. He’s also the best, and only top 100, prospect
I think you’re close on the $$ coming in on price, and like the staggered approach. You just need to replace shoemaker with something useful, likely a prospect, and delete casas
OIC2021
No chance this happens knowing Mark Shapiro
Boston is floating this to drive up his value
towinagain
This Padres offseason is looking worse and worse by each passing minute. Would have been a great swap.
Mario93
If the Red Sox eat some of that salary, this could be a fantastic move for the Jays.
puigpower
It is sad that as a dodger fan I am hoping to acquire David Price. But taking on his money in a package with Betts would be a strong move and one that we need to make.
wrongway2011
Price and Betts to LAD for AJ Pollock, Joe Kelly and Dustin May.
Dodgers get 2 star players that could put them over the top. If they don’t re-sign Betts, they get a 1st round compensation pick. They also dump 2 heavy contracts that they don’t want or need.
Red Sox get $35M salary relief, good OF replacement for Betts, good middle reliever that they know and good SP prospect.
Nationals17
Price is owed $32 million a year x3. Sounds good if Boston pays $7 million a year and tosses in an upper lever prospect. That or Boston pays $12 million a year and a lower level prospect. Jays should jump at either.
butch779988
12 and a lower level will do it.
binarydaddy
If Jays landed Price and didn’t have to eat a lot of trade chips, Jays might actually have a rotation worthy of a playoff berth in. 2020!
slider32
Fangraphs has the Jays starting pitching at 29 th in baseball, a Price addition will only move them up a few spots. They have a long way to go to become a contender.
CanadianJay
Even with price their rotation isn’t very good at all. Maybe if they sign Ryu too they’ll have around a league average rotation
bradthebluefish
Dumb. Blue Jays aren’t ready to content this year.
Strike Four
While that is true, there’s still enough talent out there for them to upgrade all over the place, like if they did add Price, Ryu, Maybin and Encarnacion they’d look a lot better than they do now.
Strike Four
Would be funny if Betts somehow gets in this deal too.
imindless
Angels really about to settle for just tehran and bundy. Angels need to get on this dude asap if they want any shot at getting to the post season.
Strike Four
Angels will lose 90 games this year if they have any kind of long term injury problems. Their very long reach to see the postseason hinges on breakouts and no injuries to key players. Both the Astros and the A’s can easily handle any of those types of losses, but as it stands, they look more like a .500 team than anything else.
Why is it so hard for them to build around a 10+ win player?
macstruts
So the Angels add Rendon, Bundy, Heany, Canning, Ohtani, Teheran, Middleton, Simmons, Upton and they are going to lose the same number of games this year as last year.
There is a reason why I consider you one of the worst posters on this board.
MoRivera 1999
Some of those “adds” you mention are players returning from significant injuries in ’19. So you’re assuming neither they nor any other Angels have serious injuries? That was kinda Strike Four’s point: given significant injuries, the Angels will struggle mightily. If you were going to argue anything, you would have to argue that the Angels can withstand injuries just as well as the Asterisks and the A’s.
macstruts
Oh I forgot Adell. But to you overall point… SO!!!!! The same number of loses? Ninety losses? It’s a stupid point. Beyond dumb. Why defend him?
Strike Four
Shhh, don’t let facts get in the way of a personal vendetta.
Strike Four
Yes, if Trout misses 3 months, they are losing 90 games. Sorry you can’t handle real life. Maybe stop mindlessly hating the poster and interpreting their posts in a way no one else is, and quit being a homer and accept every team is not immune to criticisms, your life will improve.
macstruts
If Trout misses three months STILL NO!!!!! Six Months of Rendon and three months of Trout still makes the Angels a better team. Not to mention everyone that should be better. But you have to say three months so you don’t sound as ignorant.
There is criticism and there are inane takes. That isn’t your first inane take, you literally have a 100 of them.
A team that has lost 90 games once this century, when it had devastating injuries, is going to lost 90 games again?
You should be challenged. And you’re the one that is mindless.
slider32
Fangraphs has the Jays starting pitching at 29 th in baseball, a Price addition will only move them up a few spots. They have a long way to go to become a contender.
AllRiseForTheJudge
It’s a good thing the game isn’t played on the internet, then, ain’t it?
Strike Four
Stop hating tech while you are on the internet, genius
TennVol
Could see Price and Bradley to the Jays for Alford, McKinney, Perez and Zeuch. Boston eats 30M – 40m of the 100m total. Helps both teams.
firegibby
Awful deal for the Jay’s.
jimmertee
Frank, that’s not happening.
mike156
If Boston gets away with sending $30M or less and gets back two decent prospects, consider it a win for the Red Sox front office. Price is a declining, costly asset to retain. He’s not trash, but he needs to be valued realistically.
macstruts
There is no way Boston is going to get any prospects for Price. No team is going to pay Price 20 million dollars a year… Period.
Even if Boston eats 30 million. You think a team is going to take him at 22 million a year?
AtlSoxFan
In a word, yes.
macstruts
No way is any team going to pay Price 22 million a year. He’s 34 years old, didn’t pitch the last two months of the year and has averaged 120 innings over the last three years.
Kluber brought back very little, and he was one year at 18 million.
AtlSoxFan
Kluber was dealing with oblique strain issues and broken bone in his throwing arm. That’s a big difference from having a minor cyst removed in a clean up operation.
Also, kluber gave basically nothing all last year, is a question mark for what he can do this year, and with only one year on his deal you don’t get the upside of a 2021 season of control is there is a slow 2020 start coming back from the injuries.
It makes sense that kluber’s return is depressed, and having only 1 year control lessened his return. Had kluber had 2 yrs left on his deal I bet you’d see more coming back, the shorter deal isn’t a positive.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Trade for Price.
Sign Donaldson
Wheel Bautista out of the senior center.
Rebuild the mighty 2015 Blue Jays.
Strike Four
Pillar is a free agent!
AllRiseForTheJudge
I can’t see Price being traded within the division unless Toronto REALLY makes it worth their time. Boston doesn’t want to risk him turning it around with a change of scenery and hurting their playoff chances in a walk year for their biggest star.
It’s more likely that he’s dealt to a contender in the NL so Boston doesn’t have to deal with him unless it’s in a potential World Series matchup. Dodgers would be my guess, but realistically San Diego probably has the most to offer.
Dc44
Boston- Price, Eovaldi, Benny
Jays- Zeuch, McKinney
Jays can afford to eat salary for a few years, get a good young of to add to their core
Sox- clear lots of money off books to get under tax and resign betts
butch779988
Not dealing Benny
dynamite drop in monty
Lol no
bluejaymatt 2
Jays laugh at you for suggesting that and immediately hang up. They might even call back just so they can laugh some more. That’s an absolutely idiotic trade suggestion.
Remove Eovaldi from that and Jays might start talking if Sox eat some money.
Fg-3
Price is done… no velo left.. plus he’s garbage in big games. If I were the blue jays gm I would want Boston to eat at least 30 million of the deal.
raydh
I have a question. Let’s say that that the Sox trade Price and agree to pay 10 mil of Price’s salary each year when they trade him. How much of that money counts against Boston’s luxury tax?
AtlSoxFan
10m each year.
They can also get creative and pay 6m in 2020, 10m 2021, and 14m 2022 and only count each of those values in the respective year against the CBT while paying the same 30m in salary relief.
It’s only what you actually contribute to a salary in a given year that cuts against your tax
TheBoatmen
I don’t think that is true, average salary of the contract goes against the luxury tax. Doesn’t matter how much they are paid per year.
AtlSoxFan
In a trade it’s different.
The total aav of the contract transfers to the new ball club, doesn’t stay with boston.
The new ball club then takes on the aav in full and gets a discount for the actual cash received in any given year from any club that held rights prior and includes money. Thats why some trades stagger, front load, or backload their contributions.
In turn, the former team only counts what t hey pay in the given year, since that isn’t averaged..
andrey c.
Randal Grichuk for David Price plus 15 million would split Price’s salary in half. Saving Boston/costing Toronto 16 million a year for 3 years.
beyou02215
Obviously an acquiring team will take a hard look at the meds, but if they are at all questionable, why would a team take on anything more that $10-12 million a year?
terry g
The only way Boston is going to be able to trade Price is to eat some ( I would guess about a third ) of his salary and add a prospect. Which would net Boston bout 20 million is luxury tax relief.
TheBoatmen
If it was a third then that would only net Boston $10M per year in luxury tax.
AtlSoxFan
How do you count that? Price aav is 31m against the CBT.
If boston pays 1/3, including 10m per year, then 20m is assumed by the other team (well, almost 21m).
Boston would indeed see 20m lifted from their cbt calculations.
TheBoatmen
Yeah you are right.
1738hotlinebling
Lol why
1738hotlinebling
Myers and a prospect from SD for Price make more sense
AtlSoxFan
Maybe if the prospect is Gore
putin
There’s no way Shatkins want Price. He was an AA guy. Clear em all out. Remember that time Shats released Tulo and ate his remaining $10 billion salary?
davidkaner
Anyone trading for Price is Guaranteed to pay at least 15 million per year because It’s still cheaper than what the top guys were paid. He’s a inning eater but not dominant anymore. Why the Bluejays are interested in him is befuddling because they aren’t a pitcher away from contention. Angels should make a play for him.
Fg-3
He’s not a innings eater.. he’s a noose around the neck of any team.. he’s Cabrera. He’s King Felix. Got nothing left. If he can learn to be a David wells or cc sabathia he might have some value. Obviously I’m not a fan.. but truth is truth. The fact that the Sox we’re considering using him out of bullpen is a joke. There better off doing what the Mets did with cespedes
whyhayzee
What if Price was a free agent right now and wanted a three year contract? Would he get $55.5 million? Dallas Keuchel money? More? Less? So the Sox make up the difference. It’s not that complicated.
muskie73
The column is filled with opinion but it’s not clear what opinions are those of national writer Ken Rosenthal and what opinions are those of the lesser-known MLBTR blogger.
its_happening
Wait for it….
Grichuk, Drury and Giles for Price, prospects and cash over 2021 and 2022. The people hating me for suggesting Grichuk might want to run the numbers and realize the realistic avenue for a David Price to Toronto deal must involve Grichuk. Without him, Boston has to kick in at least $30-mil over the next 3 years.
macstruts
Even if Boston kicks in 30 million, who is going to take price at 22 million a year for three years?
its_happening
The Blue Jays will. Again, said the words “at least”.
Even at $22-mil, Price at his best at $22-mil is better than a Zack Wheeler at $23+ and Bumgarner at $17. If Giles is dealt, that means they can backload the $30-mil.
firegibby
Seems like the Jay’s giving up too much.
its_happening
Gibby that would depend on the prospects in-return. In short, Jays have a chance to rid themselves of Grichuk’s bad contract while opening RF, improving the pitching staff and bolstering the minors with more talent.
And, if brazen enough, Jays have the option of dealing Trent Thornton for a pretty nice return if they choose.
bobtillman
So it’s rather unlikely the Sox move Benny, even as an add-on. There’s nobody to replace him, unless they go buy somebody, which defeats the purpose.
They’re not “tanking”; if Sale/Eovoldi bounce back (a rather large IF), they’re still in the hunt, considering the lineup. If they don’t, adjustments get made on July 31.
They’ll likely give Price away to anybody who eats the coin, and accept some team’s #29 rated prospect. Or mix and match, with the primary goal being to get rid of as much of the contract as possible.
firegibby
Jay’s trade RG for Price and Benintendi.
AtlSoxFan
Benny isn’t going anywhere.
JBJ is on his way out in 2020 or 2021.
Mookie is highly uncertain to return.
Boston isn’t going to be out in a situation with NO established OFers, especially not in a ballpark that need two CFs to cover CF and RF, and a quirky LF wall.
MoRivera 1999
Nobody’s eating “the coin” on Price, not unless Boston is taking a big share.
ffrhb14Sox
Remember that article when you said only Red Sox fans are obsessed w posting on Yankee articles? Can’t think of an article about the Red Sox you aren’t on. Copy and paste comment every article about Price. I get it, I told anyone and everyone in 2016 I hoped the Yankees didnt accept reality bc adding Torres for renting Chapman would revive them. It’ll really hurt if Bloom can squeeze this market into the needed CBT relief and it is possible.
bighiggy
Wonder if the cards could get him for dexter fowler. The red sox would save 63 mil total and 15.5 mil this year. Cards get another good pitcher and take on some payroll while having more room in the outfield for all their young outfielders. Red Sox get a guy who is a good veteran and cut payroll. I’d throw in Brett cecil and edmundo sosa for jbj. Would save you guys another 5 mil on top and you would get a prospect back
AtlSoxFan
I’d actually be ok with a Price-Fowler trade straight up.
Boston then has 3 choices:
1) eat a few mil off fowler salary to flip him to a CF needy club
2) flip jbj and slot fowler in CF for a year
3) trade mookie and slot fowler in RF for a year.
Any of those sound ok to me
macstruts
Is that what your heard, Marsh and Walsh? If the Angels sign Ryu, then I’m glad they didn’t do it.
spinach
“So it makes sense that pitching-needy teams should explore whether they Price can be had for, say, $20MM annually.”
They Price is too high.
kelticknotz
Its apparent Toronto wants at least one more proven starter. They are looking at Ryu and apparently Price.. They have also expressed an interest in a CF.
Ryu would be great, but he won’t come cheap and wants 4 yrs in his deal. Price has 32mil per season left on his 3yrs and everyone agrees that Boston is going to have to take back a chunk of that in order to get under the luxury tax.
Price hasn’t had outstanding years in Boston but he’s been a steady starter and he can also pitch out of the pen. Another thing is Boston is a pressure cooker of a place to play, the fans and media are brutal on players
Toronto takes Price and say Benintendi (not F/A eligible until 2023). Put Benintendi in CF and Price is the starter in a place he’s done well and was liked. Boston takes back 10 mil of Prices salary and a catching prospect which they really really need and maybe Travis Shaw for 1st base.
Total cost to Toronto would be around 22mil per season.
AtlSoxFan
Price has had an era+ of 112, 135, 123, and 113 respectively in his four years in boston. League average would be 100. If an average pitcher is the midpoint of performance, that means league-wide a 100 should be a #3.
Price has surpassed that every year, making him a solid #2/#3 talent level for a rotation. So has he been “outstanding”? Well, no, not the #1 expected for the games biggest contract. However, as his era+ shows, he’s still above average and far from a disappointment.
10 mil coming back from Boston? Reasonable starting point for a low level prospect or two in return. Benny going the other way? Not going to happen unless there’s a BIG return coming back with proven young controllable talent.
kelticknotz
I mention Benny only because he’s low salary 550.000 in 2019, and Boston has to package Price with someone. I wasn’t suggesting Price isn’t performing well. I really like him but Boston is hard on players, if your not winning everytime out they are on your case. Boston also needs a catcher and the Jays are heavy with catchers that could be moved.
If Boston can do the deal for Price and dump 20+ mil of his salary and Benny in return for a prospect or two it would put them below the threshold then they could look at getting rid of Evoldi. And it would give them a lot more wiggle room.
AtlSoxFan
Problem is, boston really needs benny.
1) as you say, his salary is low.
2) the team isn’t looking to tank/rebuild, so they don’t want a below replacement scrub in benny place
3) boston doesn’t have a replacement on hand to take bennys place
4) jbj is likely headed out, if not this year then after 2020. It’s not likely betts is back, so, without benny the sox have no OFs.
Boston will eat salary off the deal, but I don’t think they’re attaching anyone else on top of that either
jmi1950
If Sox don’t get a reasonable return that gets them below the tax level , they will wait and hope Price et al show they have regained form in the spring. Remember, this team won the WS in 2018 with most of the same players.
AL34
Blue Jays are close to signing Ryu to a 4 year contract so they are out on David Price. I think it’s going to be the Dodgers
Ryan_W
No guarantee they are out on price, they still have room in the rotation and a ton of money left in payroll as compared to a few years back when they were contending.
Ryu
Price
Roark
Shoemaker
Anderson
With Pearson slotting in mid season
the rotation actually looks pretty solid. They’re lineup isn’t bad either if they add price and 1 bat (Edwin/Thames) and bullpen help I don’t see why they couldn’t be in the wildcard conversation.
madmc44
Today age is not as much of an issue-players take better care of themselves.
The Sox will not trade Price within the division. If Benny goes it’s to Cincy for Iglesias (the reliever) and a solid pitching prospect.
Price to San Diego or the Dodgers. Betts, if traded, to one of those teams as well.
Bloom has a list and ‘he’s checking it twice’ his background is Filene’s Basement. He’s like Belichick–he’s smart and well organized. He will not make a mistake valuing talent.
Who has the best Farm and the most top 100 Prospects? Who’s blocked by a Major League Player?
Moonlight Graham
Seems like an unnecessary pursuit, unless maybe Boston eats 75% of the salary. Otherwise, why not fill the No. 5 spot with Trent Thornton or some other fill-in until Nate Pearson is ready? (Which should be relatively early in ‘20.) Perhaps they’re concerned about injury risks and having the depth to insure against that, but there are plenty of other—and likely less expensive—options out there.
Mike McLellan
The “return” for Boston is $$$ savings. No team is giving up a prospect package to acquire him.
Cooperdooper7
Who comes up with this trash anyway….. Why would the Red Sox Trade Price to an upcoming team in there own division? What people are missing is this Salary Dump as most people look at it…. is not actually for a player that is useless…. Price could win 15 to 18 games if healthy and ad Leadership to a young staff which is invaluable. The only way the Red Sox move him is if the team trading for him takes at last 2/3’s of his contract and the fools that keep saying they have to attach Bennintendi or Devers (almost lost it when that was mentioned) they are delusional.. Grienke was traded with just as bad of a contract and the Astros traded 4 players to get him and took the contact. Red Sox are smart in waiting.
JoeBrady
I would keep Price. While keeping mind he is an injury risk, as late as 7/14, he was 7-2 with a 3.16, a 102/24 K/W and a .653 OPSa. That’s outstanding. If he repeats that (a big if), then he will be traded without eating any salary. And, if he repeats, and Sale and Eovaldi revert, the RS will be one of the best teams in the league.
TheLawAbides
Price is an extra year @ $32M y’all are crazy Arizona ate like 25M to get Houston to accept that trade was 10-4 sub 3 era. If Price is close to that production just remember that extra year how much Boston will have to take of that contract to trade?
oldleftylong
In DD we trust.
g8752
If you were too look at what exactly is the cost of going over the luxury tax of 208 million you would have a better idea on exactly what you’re losing if you are the Boston Red Sox and where I’m going with this is that even though there has been and express desire on the part of Red Sox management to reduce payroll to 208 million or lower it may make more sense to not go below the 208 million in 2020 and pay that extra fee for one year as when you get into 20 21 a lot of payroll comes off of the books so an optional idea is to hold on to the current players and let the payroll reduce on its own by attrition and try to retain players like Mookie Betts that are talented and just be more careful about the new people that you bring in from this point going forward and you can also have Chaim Bloom try to acquire people for their minor league teams and see if they might find a few winners that could help them at the major league level. To sum it up the Red Sox may have more to lose by cutting payroll then they would then they would gain by doing so.
g8752
I suspect that the Boston Red Sox are likely to stay over the 208 million dollar luxury tax threshold in the year 2020 because the New York Yankees are way over that number in 2020 and don’t seem to care much about that so if your competition is going over the line then you’re going to be left in the dust.
g8752
There is something else to consider here that perhaps John Henry the owner of the Boston Red Sox is having financial trouble and needs to shed payroll just like what happened when the owner of the Boston Red Sox in 1918 needed to shed payroll and traded Babe Ruth to the New York Yankees? Wonder if anybody has taken a look at that as being a possibility? especially this year where everybody seems to be opening their wallets and spending big money and the New York Yankees in particular our way over the luxury tax limit of 208 million
g8752
if you were John Henry and knew you were low on money you would not want to be perceived as weak financially especially if you needed to sell the Boston Red Sox someone could lowball you on the purchase price
g8752
I’m also wondering why John Henry wouldn’t sell the Boston Red Sox for the approximately 3 billion + dollars that it’s pegged to be worth by Forbes pay the income tax on that sale and then with the proceeds by the Tampa Bay Rays for the 1 billion dollars that Forbes has the Tampa Bay Rays estimated to be worth and his payroll would be 1/3 or less off his current payroll in Boston and get this Tampa had a better record than Boston in 2019?
oldleftylong
Where’s DD when the Bosox need him??
kelticknotz
I know Jays signed Ryu which is great. But Jays still have room to move and not be close to the 208 mil luxury tax.
If Boston offered Price and Benintendi and took back 12 mil of Prices 32 mil per season and Jays gave up a good catching prospect (which Boston needs) and another decent prospect it would be worth looking at
Price is a good starter as well as coming out of the pen and its only for 3 yrs. If they put Benintendi in the mix he’s a decent o/f under team control until 2022-2023.