3:56pm: If there was any doubt, the MLBPA erased it in a statement making clear that it’s ready to fight on this issue. (Via Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic, on Twitter.) The statement provides: “The Players Association will vigorously defend any action taken against Jacoby or his contract and is investigating potential contract violations by his employer.”
As Rosenthal notes, the CBA does speak to this subject, providing: “Any treatment a Player receives for a Work Related Injury by a health care provider who is not affiliated with the Club must be authorized by the Club in advance of the treatment in accordance with Regulation 2 of the [Uniform Player’s Contract].” But that general rule does not necessarily leave us with a clear guide to the outcome of the dispute.
For one thing, there are loads of potential factual and interpretive questions to be addressed. Just what constitutes medical treatment, for instance? For another, the current CBA includes letters of understanding exchanged between the league and union. One in particular acknowledges that there are open disagreements regarding what occurs in cases of conflict in medical opinion. There are perhaps also other legal concepts that might limit the extent to which an employer, even if theoretically empowered by a collective bargaining agreement, may dictate the health and medical choices of an employee. Beyond all that, even if it is determined that Ellsbury has breached his contract, it must still be established that the breach justifies the full or partial abrogation of the Yankees’ future salary obligations.
In other news, Ellsbury is said to be planning to attempt a return in 2020, per Jon Heyman of MLB Network (via Twitter). His anticipated timeline for readiness is not evident. Obviously he’d be looking to catch on with another organization if he’s able to show he’s physically capable of giving it another shot.
1:26pm: The Yankees finally cut bait on Jacoby Ellsbury this week, begrudgingly waving the white flag on the center fielder’s ill-fated seven-year, $153MM contract. Ellsbury is still owed $26,142,857 of that deal — his 2020 salary plus a $5MM buyout on his option for the 2021 season. But he may not receive all of that cash without a fight.
It seems the Yankees intend not to pay Ellsbury his salary for the coming season, based upon the premise that Ellsbury underwent outside medical treatment without approval to rehab the injuries that have plagued him since 2017. George A. King III and Ken Davidoff of the New York Post reported the brewing battle, with Jon Heyman of MLB Network adding further details (via Twitter).
We don’t know much about the precise factual underpinnings of this issue, but the reporting suggests the team believes that Ellsbury acted inappropriately for multiple years. Presumably, the organization believes it can establish that the alleged actions not only violated the terms of his contract, but also contributed to his inability to return to the field of play over the past two seasons.
Ellsbury’s outlook for 2020 isn’t really known, though there has been no indication that he’s likely to play. The once-excellent outfielder had a few solid but generally uninspiring years in New York before falling apart physically more recently. We’ve seen a steady stream of generally ambiguous ailments cited over the past few campaigns. The 36-year-old hasn’t even made it into a single rehab game.
What we do now know is the anticipated procedural progression of the dispute. The Yankees will simply refuse to cut Ellsbury his checks, per Heyman, leaving it to him and agent Scott Boras to pursue a grievance action. It is somewhat difficult to imagine that there won’t be a full-throated battle on both the factual and contractual merits of the Yanks’ anticipated course of action, though certainly a settlement will also be possible. No doubt the league, union, and Yankees’ insurer will have major roles to play in this as well.
It’s all but impossible to guess how this’ll turn out based upon what little we know at present. There’s nothing in terms of recent precedent for such a grievance — at least not one that was public knowledge — so it’s difficult to gauge just how much of the contract the Yankees might ultimately be able to avoid paying or whether they even have a legitimate hope of winning their case. But any finances saved will be notable, as the Yankees currently have about $203MM on the books for 2020 (including projected arbitration salaries) and about $210MM worth of luxury tax considerations.
Gonna be some character assassinations happening by both sides in this face off.
Does this still count against the luxury tax?
I’d presume it has to unless and until MLB voids the contract
I think it may not count against it since he’s no longer on the 40 man roster.
Doesn’t matter.
1) the “castillo” loophole was closed under this CBA – removing a player from the 40 man no longer removed cbt salary.
2) upon his release the salary is still the obligtaion of, and charged to, the NYY just like panda and the sox.
Now they’re trying to void it, but, until it’s been decreed void validly by a court or mlb, they’re on the hook
MLB cannot “void” a contract.
They did with braves prospects as punishment and declared them all FAs
The arbitrators
will decide…..
Yeah but the players got to keep the money in the Braves situation. In legal language, performance was excused. I’m not sure that that language was used by MLB, if it was I’d be curious to see the reason why. It may b that the CBA allows MLB to do that though, otherwise they couldn’t do it on their own.
It does because he was released and not outrighted off the 40 man.
Put it this way; the Red Sox still has to deal with Pablo Sandoval’s $20mil the last 2 years even though he was playing in SF.
Yes, it will count against it I think.
Also, if they try it, I hope they pay treble damages for fraud, and lose there first 3 picks.
Stupid Yanks.
Nope…it still counts.
Same way Sandoval was released by the Red Sox and signed by the Giants… The approx $20M last year still counted against RS payroll…minus the league min. He was paid by the Giants.
That’s different, though.
I believe it counts unless there’s a hearing and their position is upheld and final.
LOL. I basically said the same thing just now and could have saved the use of the finger if I only read further. Sorry Atl.
From what I read in the article, he’s able to get treatment without consent for a non work related injury. It’s been two years since he played and I can’t recall what was last keeping him out of the lineup.
It counts until or unless the tight wad spankees get to legally keep some of his salary.
Yes it counts
Any monies that Jacoby has to forfeit to the Yankees will not count on their 2020 tax level.
It does not if they win. It might also be a waiting game which I don’t know, the more they push off the better
Classy organization. Cut a guy lose than arbitrarily withhold his pay.
Reading is hard.
Just bringing a little NFL fun to baseball.
You mean a guy that didn’t show up to work for 2 years?? I’d be fired after 2 weeks. Many people would be fired after 2 hours.
Ok you know that didnt happen he obviously was working hard to get back plus the insurance paid 2 of the years of the contract
How much do you think that insurance costs though? That insurance has to be incredibly expensive because of dead weight players like Ellsbury
Then maybe the Yankees shouldn’t have given him that contract? Funny how so many people here including you. Want to support multi billion dollar enterprises. Pathetic
@stubby66
How do you or anyone other than Ellsbury know how hard he’s tried to get back? He hasn’t been with the team for quite a while. Is his injury so serious he can’t rehab with the team? If the Yanks feel as if he could’ve returned to the field sooner had he followed their doctors suggestions and supervision then they have a gripe.
I’m not choosing sides as I have none of the facts/details but all Ellsbury has had to do was show a little effort to rehab in order to collect all of his $$$$. No one can say if he truly would be able to play or was just calling it in to collect a check. I can’t put anybody above doing that.
Many people work for enterprises and get OUR paychecks cut from them. Most of them understand the business side of it and want what’s best for the organization to include growing and retaining customers by enhancing the value proposition for the customer. To want what’s best, one has to take a leap and lose the distrust and the notion that enterprises are greedy and oppressive. But, hey, if you want to take-up for malingerer simply because your default position against enterprise won’t allow for it then knock yourself out; it’s a free country.
Very backwards thinking you have and that’s ok, but you should think more about what classy really defines. The Yanks were pure class paying and nurturing this player. He has been paid in full to date despite having no warranty for a faulty contract; one not held to by the player. A classy move would have been for Ellsbury to say “hey I love my team and team mates, I haven’t played in 3 years and will likely never play again, the $26M owed to me is an obvious impediment for my team and mates to achieve their winning goals and since I’m no longer of use, I will retire so they can relocate those funds ala the Gil Meche effect.” Nope Ellsbury goes an pulls his weak aaaaaa stuff. He doesn’t need the money, he’s just gaming the baseball system and players like him are overall bad the game and bad for free agency, which is why you all might be surprised when the MLBPA fully evaluates the effects.
Bwahahahahaha…..yeah….yanks….your worth eleventy billion dollars….just keep that 26 million that my contract states you owe me cause you don’t have enough money.
You seriously thought any human being on Earth would even think this?
Spoiler alert, Ellsbury, like all players, is a fan of himself first. Don’t confuse players with owners or fans. Just because he wears the team uniform, doesn’t mean he’s married to the team, and willing to make huge sacrifices for their benefit.
And also, how do you know he doesn’t need the money? Athletes go bankrupt more often than average Americans.
“He doesn’t need the money”? How can you possibly determine someone else’s needs? I “need” a new Mercedes and a Porche.
Yeah because the Yankees are desperate for that money
Greed
His comment resonates with me.
It’s very simple, if you violate a contract the other party get to void it.
If the violation is determined to be a material breach then the Yankees may be excused from performance. Most violations do not void a contract.
Arbitrarily?
Hope you’re seeing this, Gerrit Cole. Yankees don’t honor their contracts.
Ellsbury getting treatment/therapy from nonteam sources was happening when he was with the sox. The spankees had plenty of opportunity to reel him in the last two and half years and didn’t. they are just trying to free up some money to go after cole. they should lose this easily.
@David Dubois—“they are just trying to free up some money to go after Cole”
Scott Boras is the agent for both Ellsbury and Cole (and Ryu, Rendon, and others). Doubtful Cole will look favorably at Yankees.
First of all the yanks/cashman/Levine do not have a relationship with boras nor should they. Second, Ellsbury should be a man and walk away, esp if he did go see some liberal clinic without notification. The Yankees and the organization are top class, every real yankee has nothing but positive things to say. Anyone talking the Yankees and their wallet is just stupid and grasping at air. You sound pathetic. The Yankees bankroll over the last 20 yrs was half inflated bc they overpaid jester and Mariano based on merit. Half the people complaining are pissed bc their organization let them walk. And small market is practically a myth. Every team has the money or credit to go out and sign what they think it takes to win.
He will walk away and the Yankees will pay him. They signed him to the guaranteed contract and the last thing MLB wants us for a team to piss off the players union when collective bargaining is coming up.
This is a BS, classless move by the Yankees that will fail. It’s nothing more than bad debt.
I am inclined to agree with you hetzel. It all depends on the language and stipulations in the contract he signed with the Yankees. If the contract said that he could only use Yankees approved doctors and he didn’t do that then they can legally void the contract. I think most MLB contracts say the same thing but they often let it slide if the player comes back healthy later. From the Yankees point of view he may have broken rules stipulated in the contract and whichever medical treatment he chose definitely did not help bring him back to health in any way. It’s not unreasonable for the Yankees to think their doctors could have done a better job of helping Ellsbury become a productive asset sooner considering Ellsbury’s doctors have already proven that they did the worst job possible. From the Yankees point of view, you might be able to break contract by using other doctors but it better pay off. If Ellsbury broke his contract and still ended up in the worst possible scenario then he took that risk at his own peril. I don’t know the specifics of the contract but it is not unreasonable to assume that a non-Yankees approved doctor could have fudged up the situation more than the Yankees doctors. Especially since it is impossible for the Yankees doctors to fudge it up more than this in terms of Ellsbury’s production. If I am a Yankees player under contract who is expecting $22+ million a year, I am just taking advantage of the Yankees medical staff if for nothing else but out of fear that they might take my contract away. In other wprds, if you break the rules of your contract, you better at least be 100% positive that breaking the rules doesn’t put you in the worst possible scenario. If that happens there is no benefit to breaking the contract and $26+ million to lose (at least in Jacoby Ellsbury’s case).
If you’re correct, and they didn’t enforce the provision with others getting care outside of their approved doctors in the past, the Yanks lose again. The Yanks’ conduct matters, as does the number of injuries they had this year, and the medical staff’s treatment of them. They’ll end up paying.
I don’t know if the Yankees have let it slide with any other player before. I just meant that I wouldn’t be surprised if other teams did it with other players. I know Bartolo Colon was fat and old in addition to being an unproductive shell of himself for years. When he was with (I think) the Oakland A’s, he left the country to go to Europe and get some sort of treatment that was actually against the law at the time in the US, so I’m sure it wasn’t MLB approved. He came back from that treatment throwing 97 mph again and was more dominant than he had been in years. Oakland let that slide because Bartolo took all the risk and it paid off. In this case, Jacoby took all the risk and none of it paid off. I don’t know if the Yankees have ever done that before, but I don’t think it would matter. Just because they may have let someone else’s away with breaking thwir contractual rules once doesn’t mean they always have to let everyone get away with it every single time. It’s an “At Your Own Risk” kind of thing. It’s like that at every job with a contract and MLB is no different. For example: I had a coworker at a restaurant I worked at years ago. One day he missed work without calling in. That was against the rules if his hiring contract but the manager cut him a break. He could have fired him in the spot but he told my coworker he could keep his job for the time being if he signed a referral admitting that he missed work. The coworker signed that referall and never broke an official rule of the company again. Several weeks later the coworker got a little too comfortable and asked out the managers underage daughter on a date. That is not against company policy or against any rule but it still resulted in my coworker getting fired. Everyone knew that he was fired for trying to date the managers underage daughter but that wasn’t the official reason. The reason his contract was legally terminated was the fact that he missed work without calling weeks before. It’s kind of like, “Okay… You broke the rules and I can fire you right now without pay. I’m gonna cut you a break and not do it right now but if you underperform at your job or do anything I don’t like at any point in the future, you just gave me a perfectly legitimate reason to terminate your contract without pay at any point for any reason I want.” That’s similar to the situation Ellsbury is in. The Yankees don’t want to terminate Ellsbury just because he violated his contract. They want to terminate him because he is terrible for the team. The fact that he just violated his contract just gives them a way to do it. There have been many other employees at that same restaurant that missed shifts without calling way more times than my aforementioned coworker. Many of them are still there because they didn’t try to date the managers daughter. My coworker can’t go back and use that reason to force the manager to give him his contract back. As soon as he broke his contract he put 100% of the power in the managers hands for the entire length of the contract. That’s exactly what Ellsbury did as soon as he broke his contract with the Yankees. If you break your employment contract with the Yankees than you better be sure that you are going to come back and be so valuable that the team can’t let you go. Instead, Jacoby broke his contract and didn’t come back at all.
This is not a Yankees related post but I am very surprised MLBTR hasn’t made an article about it yet. I watched an interview on national television a day or 2 ago with a very high up executive in the Liberty Media organization. He said that the Braves have an open ended budget and specifically said he expects the Braves to outspend the Mets this year. All of this came after the Chris Martin and Will Smith signings. That’s very notable because the Braves only have about $100 million or so (INCLUDING arbitration eligible players) committed to next season. The Mets already have $160+ million dedicated to next season. There seems to be no doubt that the Braves will break their all time team payroll record in the 2020 season and outspending a large market team like the Mets is a very big deal especially considering that the Braves finished much better than the Mets and won the division each of the last 2 years. Adding that kind of payroll to this Braves team would be huge. Especially if they spend it smart. It’s funny because the executive was being interviewed by a Mets fan so he was actually kind of bragging about it. Anyone who thought the Braves were going to spend another $56+ million on their bullpen in just a few short days and thought it was gonna stop there has another thing coming. He basically implied that the Braves haven’t even started. It’s all investment money so they have to send it anyway if they want to avoid taxes on it. At first they spent all the extra money on the facility but now The Battery seems pretty maxed out in terms of meeting it’s best potential. They are pouring it into the team this year. I really hope MLBTR writes an article about this. I can see why they missed it because it was a wide ranging interview about finance covering all things Liberty Media including F1 racing. The part about the Braves and the Mets didn’t come up until near the end. It’s important to note that he said all this after the Martin and Smith signings. He actually mentioned Will Smith in the interview. When he was talking about having money to spend those guys weren’t included because that was money he already considered spent. I don’t think the Braves will surpass the Cubs or Red Sox or Yankees or anything but he specifically mentioned the $160 million Mets. People have been talking all over this site about how the Braves aren’t likely to spend much more money but this is a top inside guy saying they are are camera in national media. Somebody in MLBTR please write an article about this!!!
Brevity is your friend. Nobody wants to read your walls of text.
I know it wasn’t brief but Jeff Todd read it and then looked it up and now their is an article about it. Yay for me!
Not true. Intelligent people can maintain their attention span longer than a snapchat. Next time, just skip the response if reading more than one line is too much for you.
“…write an article about this”? You just did!
This has a slew of irony as it comes from an organization whose manager derailed his yankee career by playing pickup basketball games in the off season.
You sound stupid
should have to pay every penny since they were dumb enough to sign him to begin with.
Agreed. See also:
Gary Mathews Jr.
Josh Hamilton
Mo Vaughn
Vernon Wells
Etc.
All former Angels. Not a good list to be connected to. I’m an Angels fan and it pains me to read these names. That is not even counting cozart who they should release
Ellsbury was dumb enough to violate the contract so he gets nothing.
That’s not how it works with contracts. The violation has to be so severe that the remedy is to void the contract. Most violations do not rise to that level.
Dude hasn’t played in years. If you’re running off to some hippie clinic without a green light.. would you not count that as egregious?
The fact that he hasn’t played in years, and has only used Yankees doctors helps Ells, that doesn’t hurt him. Wouldn’t you want to try anything to play? You guys are playing both sides here.
There should be a clause in there that says if you spent x amount of time per year on the dl then they can void it for any team.
That would cause the great labor strike of 2021.
Hope so. Something needs to be done to keep ticket prices reasonable.
Cap potential earnings like the nba does. Max contracts. 6 or 7 years. Max 150-200 million max.
That’s cute that you think ticket prices are a result of player salaries. It’s supply and demand, in order for ticket prices to go down, the fans need to stop paying for them. Until that happens the prices will continue to go up. It doesn’t matter how much the team spends on the on-field product. Baseball is a business, you sell your tickets at the highest price the market will accept
Lol, you really think the owners wouldn’t charge the max ticket prices even if they were able cut labor prices?
Thank you. I hate the bs narrative it’s the players fault when owners are making money hand over fist.
Hence why you get a better deal at petco Park then you would at yankee stadium
Salaries have zero to do with ticket prices. Branding 101, this idea needs to die.
Stadiums could have zero people show up and owners would still make a profit with the TV deals and naming rights they sell, and the fact the vast majority get tax payer funded sweet heart deals for land or stadiums.
The correlation between player salaries and ticket prices isnt 1 to 1 but increasing salary commitments does drive up ticket prices and other prices to generate more revenue. Whether its 25 cent increase or 25 dollar increase if payroll increases businesses dont offset the increase out of their own pockets. They hide the cost in products.
Mcdonalds walmart if they increase minimum wage prices of products go up. Economics 101.
And you blame the millionaires not the billionaires?
Are you dumb or stupid
McDonalds and Walmart are billion dollar enterprises who have increased their profit while not improving the lives of their workers. Don’t blame the workers for getting what they earned by working.
Why are there billionaires? What do they do for your ticket prices and taxes? Why did everyone I know pay more in income taxes than Amazon?
Econ 101 CSE maybe
Keep telling yourself that. Same with basic minimum unsustainable wage that won’t lead to non skilled jobs being totally replaced by automation.
Only if the demand is there.
If few people show up, and will just have to sign few people in the future.
I work at Disney. Thats what I tell my friends who complain about those prices too. And my friends still end up getting annual passes
If that’s the case then Tampa should be paying people to come to their games lol
Fans have quit paying for them. A million fans give or take have quit going to games.
nytimes.com/2019/09/29/sports/baseball/mlb-attenda…
Revenue mainly comes from tv. When that gets threatened then he league is really in trouble.
There’s a lot more of the millionaires!!
It’s not the function of Walmart or any other business enterprise to “improve the lives” of their employees – that’s the employees responsibility.
In baseball, there’s 25 millionaires for every billionaire. So, maybe, yeah.
Baseball players improved their lives by forming a strong union. Why wouldn’t people with everyday low paying jobs do the same?
That’s not Economics 101. They can only raise ticket prices if the fans will pay for them.
Dude yankee tickets are not expensive. You can get great seats for like 50 bucks.
correct! And the massive salary increases over the last 35 years have been the result teams completing for the most talented players to play the game for their team; to keep fans interested in purchasing tickets. It just so happens that paying fans (and what they’re willing to part with to watch games) had been the horse pulling this cart.
Same thing happens throughout the US labor market — even markets that differ from professional sports; markets where traditional products and services are being offered. Companies compete for talented & skilled folks that can deliver value. They compete for this talent within and outside their own industries and typically by work experience and reputation where applicable and known. But what allows for this is the US consumers themselves.
So get hurt working for your employer and they can terminate your contract? This is the reason why workman comp is a thing you realize that right?
Awww someone is butt hurt. How many tens of millions did he make sitting on the dl ?
We are not talking about a worker/firefighter.
We are talking about grown men playing a kids game.
Meanwhile in the nfl they only guarantee x amount of money per contract
Whatever helps you sleep at night man. Dont get your panties in a bunch cause you offered a ridiculous suggestion. Yankees offered the contract he got hurt playing.
Youd have a point if he did get hurt not playing and did something stupid- cliff jumping dirt bikes steet racing. Dont like being called out dont offer dumb ideas man.
Nfl guarantees money cause of injuries.
Mlb having fully guaranteed contracts is a union and cba issue…..switching contract styles is better than outright terminating
Have a feeling Ellsbury went to see 1 of Boras’s own “dr’s” rather than a dr the NYY wanted him to see. “possibly” surgery was performed against the NYY wishes?? boras has his so called team of private medical care. ells would disappear for MONTHS at a time when he was hurt during the season while with the Red Sox to see these people of Boras. While “earning” 20m+ would think the least could have done was play by the NYY rules and ignored these witch dr’s (sic) that do not appear to have done much good during his career to keep him healthy in the 1st place and just abided by the NYY rules??
While under contract, you play by the rules, no go by the whims of an egomaniac such as Boras. NY might win this 1.
Awww so someone is super butt hurt. Like I said every team to include trashcan maybin for the padres.
Plus I’m hearing there is something about him taking roids.
Sounds like low talker is sour about his hourly wage
And Ellsbury’s was 100% guaranteed
John, listen to this theory. The NYY were purposely keeping him buried after the initial injury, n Ellsbury wanted to return so he sought out his own Dr for second opinions n treatment cuz the NYY were keeping him buried so NOT to pay full salary!!!
Exactly…he has a contract..they will pay him…
Nfl doesnt have guarenteed contracts
K. Cousins would disagree…
That’s not their argument at all. Did you read the post?
If someone offers you a raise, all things being = you take it,
Getting hurt and then running off to some quack is diff than getting hurt on the job. And the employer shouldn’t be responsible if you cause detriment to yourself.
So what your saying is a player gets hurt during a game or pitcher hurts their arm and goes out for TJ surgery. The team then can void their contract?
How about if a firefighter breaks their leg rescuing someone. We should fire them because they got hurt doing what they are supposed to be doing. Or a cop that gets shot in the line of duty.
Lets be honest here the yankees didnt want him to come back the last couple of years because they would have been paying out his salary.all by themselves. This year probably there is no way to prove that he should still be out so insurance is questioning it.
Roll you hit it on the head! The NYY buried Ells cuz they would be paying him the entire amount!
except we know last season he didn’t get hurt during a game because he wasn’t in a game… I think that’s the Yankees whole argument. He got hurt NOT playing a game. Not saying I agree with it but the Yankees argument is closer to the cop got shot showing off his police gun at a party and not in the line of duty as you use in your metaphor.
Numerous players have gotten hurt off the field – on their ranch, sporting, car accidents…
Heck, brock holt lost playing time due to his kid poking his eye and scratching something on it – lens/cornea/whatever.
Nobody else seeks to cancel a year worth of salary over it. That says something about one franchise versus all the others if that is the arguement being used…
Not really if he was following the advice of doctors outside the organization as opposed to the team physicians and got hurt as a result. Also are you really going to compare losing a couple weeks of holt to not playing a single game in two years? I mean, you might not like the Yankees but come on…
I can also tell you as a doctor I have had to see more than one patient sent over from their work insurance to make sure the injury they are complaining of is both legit and likely/could have occurred as a result from the accident… because they don’t have to cover it if it didn’t take place at work.
the contracts are guaranteed, that cannot be legally added to any MLB contract right now. Jacoby “Brittle” Ellsbury was collecting millions from the sox before the spanks and eveyone thought that the sox treated him poorly. the spanks were forewarned and therefore have no claim to financial relief.
That is ridiculous. Don’t think team doctors couldn’t manipulate that so owners could recoup some payroll? Plus, if I get hurt at work, I get paid. Same deal
>> “There should be a clause in there that says if you spent x amount of time per year on the dl then they can void it for any team.”
Owners would hire snipers to take out a kneecap on anyone they didn’t feel like paying.
That clause would have to be negotiated
OH WAIT. Hold on. Let me get my popcorn for this.
I wonder if Jacoby’s been seeing the medicine man.
Let’s characterize this properly…
MLB’s wealthiest franchise goes after the final year of a player’s contract.
On the other side we have a player that was held on the dl/il under what appear dubious reasons, and, is facing penalties for attempting to get better and return to the field.
So opposing this wealthiest franchise are the player, the full weight of the MLBPA, the arguably most powerful agent in sports, and, in the event of trials/appeals probably interested parties ranging from other player associations to possibly medical and human rights groups since it’s framed as an issue of personal control over treatment and body health.
This WILL be good. Also, start making your picket signs.
Investigation of Astros will be better.
I think, especially with the investigation supposedly expanding to 2018 and 2019 that the outcome may have bugger penalties /reach, but, I expect the jerry springer entertainment to be higher in this one.
Intrigue
Word of the day…
There is for sure going to be a work stoppage. Le sigh.
This is going to be ugly…washed up player vs one of the worst organizations when it comes to treatment of their players. Should be fun!!!
“one of the worst organizations when it comes to treatment of their players”
Please enlighten us. Sounds like wild, random Yankee-hating.
It is. It’s clearly not based in reality, nor than anything other than his hate.
As one of the only teams that still has a fascist facial hair policy, the Yankees are legitimately considered not player friendly.
What a goofy comment.
Players LOVE playing for the Yankees.
It’s a first-class organization with awesome facilities and personnel.
Dodgethis
Pffft. You make a mockery of fascism. The fact that that is the best you can do proves my point, not yours.
+Dodgethis
Multiple companies require you to shave. Its not fascism when they do it, but it is when the Yankees do?Its also not when you consent and sign a legally binding contract. No one forced the players to sign the contract, if there was something in the terms that would prevent them from accepting then they would have never signed. Do you also scream fascism when your boss tells you he needs the report on his desk by noon?
Absolute goof.
typo correction:
**It’s also not fascism when
That’s one way to discourage free agents from wanting to sign with you this offseason…
“Well, we made offers…”
Haha! That’s the truth. Cashman’s offseason heavy lifting is done.
All depends on whether you think you’re one to break a contract. I never have.
Innocent until proven guilty, cornerstone of this country.
Exactly. That’s why this is a matter for the courts. Folks like you are trying to decide the case from your armchair with no facts (contract) at hand.
I’d say it’s just as likely that ellsbury did wrong as the yankees doctors invented false grounds to refuse medical clearance, and/or actually withheld medically acceptable treatment that had a chance of improving the players condition in an effort to collect insurance and keep him off the field.
Thank you. That’s all we can reasonably assume at this moment. I have no idea who will win. The Yankees could lose for all I know. We’ll just have to wait and see.
That’s literally called malpractice. I’m highly skeptical the doctors were intentionally withholding treatment or saying he can’t play when he could. Ellsbury would have filed a malpractice suit by now and probably wouldn’t have to worry about the money the yanks aren’t paying this year because he’s be getting double. How hard would it be for a couple experts to say x,y, and z are the standard of care and these doctors didn’t meet it if they were conspiring to keep him injured?
It will not stop any free agent from signing with the Yankees at all
“We fixed the glitch.” – Yankees
Kudos Mr. Diamond, kudos. Now if they just get Michael Bolton to sing the national anthem at the season opener…
You just won the internet for the dayyou just won the internet for the day
The 2020 mlb strike likes this.
A contract is a contract. Both parties sign and agree knowing this can happen to any player in baseball, very New Yorkish to try and pull this. You both put the pen to paper, you don’t see players demanding raises when they sign a contract
I should say with that it is also very NFLish
Obviously the Yankees are saying he broke the contract, a fact about which you know nothing. Neither do I for that matter. This is why they have courts.
contracts havw plenty of language that is not publicised. very likely this was one stipulation.
>> “ you don’t see players demanding raises when they sign a contract “
… except Frank Thomas
It’s hard to choose a side here without all the facts. I will say it’s Ellsbury’s body, so he should have the ultimate say in how it’s treated.
Depends on what the contract says.
No contract should govern a player’s health. If language is being written in for that, it’s a problem.
That’s a larger issue though, and not really the core issue in this case. To play devils advocate, if a team is paying you 21m dollars and believes they have top line doctors, they may be uneasy about you seeing people they view as less able to perform effective treatment.
Appalachian Outlaw
Says the Outlaw.
Who are you to judge what contracts should or should not contain. If you’re paying someone $100MM+ you darn well better have a say in what treatment the player gets. You’d be an idiot not to.
The salary doesn’t matter though, in any field. If you’re making 21 million or 21 thousand, it’s your body. For some people the larger number just makes the player less sympathetic. It’s not about what your employer believes is best for your health, it’s what you believe and are comfortable with. Isn’t that sort of the issue here at the core?
No, I’d be a decent human being if I didn’t believe just because I gave a guy 100 million dollars, I have a say in everything. I mean by that logic, should I also be entitled to meet his wife/girlfriend just to make sure she’s onboard with me controlling every aspect of this man’s life? It’s a ridiculous question, but it’s the hill you’re starting down here. The Yankees are paying him to play baseball, so their say only should extend to baseball things.
Appalachian_Outlaw
Well clearly you know nothing about the situation. I have ALWAYS assumed that the team had a say in what treatment the player received, just as the player does. Whether or not you think that is appropriate is irrelevant. I don’t believe it has anything to do with the amount of money. I just stated the $100MM for effect, to demonstrate that these are weighty contracts with weighty implications for both parties. Clearly we are talking large sums. Of course the team has an interest. It would be stupid not to.
Mo, if they want to offer an opinion, that’s fine. If a player chooses a different course for his own body though, that’s his right. The team shouldn’t be allowed to void his contract unless his choice was ridiculous, and something no sane person would do. Maybe that’s the case, I don’t know. I’d need more facts. Money doesn’t give you entitlement over another person’s health choices though.
They had years to try and get him healthy so i think he had a right to seek alternatives this is just the Yankees trying to recoup some money to spend on someone else
Brentg55
I guess you’ve looked over the contract and are a hig-powered sports lawyer. I’m not so I’ll wait to see what happens. Apparently the Yankees think they have a case based on the contract. Either they do or they don’t. We’ll see.
Appalachian Outlaw
“Money doesn’t give you entitlement over another person’s health choices though.”
It does if you signed a contract to that effect. I don’t know if Ellsbury did sign a contract to that effect, but the Yankees seem to be saying that he did. That’s what this dispute is about.
You may not agree with the contract, assuming it did give the Yankees a say in what treatment could/could not taken, but that was up to the Yankees and Ellsbury, not you. We’ll have to see what the arbitrators say about the contract, whether it says what the Yankees think it says.
Mo4ever and Appalachian Outlaw…… Medical and second opinions are covered under the CBA (ARTICLE XIII—Safety and Health
D) Second Medical Opinion) not individual contracts (see my post below).
Simply Google MLB CBA PDF
I disagree. I think the core of the discussion is whether he breached contract. The hair of whether teams write in language about requiring you to seek approval for outside medical care (which I assume all teams likely do) is a separate discussion imo. I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I just don’t think it really matters here because it was in the contract.
If they just paid you $20M for your expected performance, and your performance correlates 100% with how you take care of your body; then, yeah, it’s perfectly legit for that money to be contingent on how you treat your body. Of course, the employer has no right to force you to take care of your body in a certain way; but they do have the right not to pay you if you violate some such agreement. That’s breach of contract.
Maybe he wanted to get better, NYY wanted to bury him and get insurance.
If reports that he was showing progress this offseason were true, it spoils the yankees goal of just burying him on the IL for insurance money.
“How dare you actually try to get better..”
Alt Sox Fan
Oh my lord what rivalry bias horse pucky. If you’re paying someone $100MM+ you darn well oughta have a say in treatment. You’d be a fool not to and you know it. Your just taking wild swings cause you’re a Red Sox fan and this is the Yankees. You can’t pass up the opportunity even if it is dog crap. Admit it and get some intellectual honesty on.
Not true. Insurance companies try to deny treatment over cost or other reasons not based on efficacy or appropriateness every single day.
Who is to say the yankees doctors weren’t doing the same to ellsbury so he got it on his own BECAUSE HE WANTED TO GET BETTER.
Clearly the team, like those insurance companies, had a potential alterior incentive to deny any and all rear mentioned that might get him better and keep him on the IL to collect insurance.
Time for you to be reasonable and consider that possibility
AltSoXfan
You are wildly speculating and doing so specifically because of your team allegiance. All we know is that the Yankees are claiming Ellsbury broke the contract, which is a perfectly legit thing to do. It’s reasonable to assume that they have reason to believe they have a case. That’s all we can say. The court will decide,
Everything you have to say about it is biased horse manure.
There are a lot of dumb people who post on here but Mo4ever has to be near the top
If the Yankees paid for his rehab at this location… Case Closed.
>> AtlSoxfan:
My neighbor’s daughter was in a bad auto accident, comatose for 6 months before dying. In that time, her heart stopped beating on 24 occasions and had to be resuscitated each time.
The insurer refused to pay for the resuscitations claiming they were ‘not a necessary procedure’.
Not saying I agree with a of his points but did you honestly read this thread and somehow think what mo is saying is dumber than atlsox?
Agree, that’s why he’ll probably ultimately win.
The cry baby NYY is almost funny! The Redsox were completely fleeced by the Panda, who after signing a contract with the Redsox proceeded to eat his way across the country to the point he couldn’t bend over for a ground ball or snap his belt when he took a swing! That contract is worth crying about, at least Ells played a little before getting hurt, but I agree he should forsake the money just like I think Panda should have. Every team has their losers, but none cry as much as the Evil Empire does!
Pffft! They’re saying he broke the contract. That’s different than the Panda, Tex, or A-Rod (long contracts that were odious at the end; well, Panda’s was every minute). Neither you nor I know if he legally did. That’s for a court to decide.
No, the NYY buried Ells, n their docs would keep him buried!
pasha2k
You don’t know what you’re talking about and you sound like a 9-year-old. Again.
The most telling fact is that Ells went to the Yanks MD’s for 2 years and they couldn’t get him healthy. He states he wants to play and therefore is getting treatment. Ells will win the Arb without it being close.
Except all I heard from Sox fans all year was complaints about their bad contracts and not being able to get a closer because of them.
Did Panda break his contract? The Yankees are claiming Ellsbury broke his contract. Since you a) haven’t seen the contract and b) are not a high-powered sports attorney, you are speaking without a clue. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are just attacking the Yankees because that’s what all 9-yr-old Red Sox fans do, and you haven’t grown up. I don’t know how this is going to turn out. And I know you don’t either. You’re just blowing it all out your piehole.
emulating another New York team, eh?
For all of you laughing at the White Sox for having $73M as their largest contract ever, reread this story. More evidence of why long-term, large money contracts almost always fail: Mark Teixeira, Carl Crawford, Adrian Gonzalez, Kevin Brown, Miguel Cabrera, Chris Davis, Prince Fielder, Josh Hamilton, Mo Vaughn, Mike Hampton, Yoenis Cespedes (shorter term, but BIG money), Jason Heyward, Alfonso Soriano, Yu Darvish, Jake Arrieta, etc., etc., etc.
Best long-term deals are the ones teams are now handing out to salary arb players. Pay the talent when they’re producing at their peaks, not when they’re 31 thru 37 years old..
Also pay them below market value for their first 6 years
If it’s during arbitration years those are years 4-6 so if you extend them like say acuna’s contract he is getting paid very well from year 3 on
That’s probably why the White Sox are so competitive every year.
And all those big contracts prevented the R Sox from winning more that 4 WS titles in a 15 yr span.
It’s sad when even the Yankees are trying to cry poor
You have to work hard to misconstrue and misrepresent this story so badly. The Yankees aren’t crying poor. They are saying he broke the contract. That’s legit. The court will decide.
are you going to sit here commenting on EVERY post someone makes against the Yanks?
How many times have you hit the refresh button to see another post you dont like?
About as many times as I’ve seen your username pop up in this thread – refresh much yourself??
cleptos 4th burner account i see…how do you keep the emails/passwords straight?
If everyone is going to log in and repeat everyone else, then yeah, probably.
Sole account, jerkoff.
doubt that one buddy. I bet you got a sticky note by your keyboard with all your different emails.
“hmmm who should i be today”
Maybe I’ll just call myself something cool and original like CrewBrew…idiot.
well you already called yourself something cool.
you got bronx in your name…thats the definition of cool!!
Don’t hate, pal. Just be original.
So if clepto works at BK, and you ARE clepto, does that mean you work at BK too?
Brain buster for ya 🙂
I guess your Mom and Dad are acting as the moderator’s today, CrewBrew…someone just saved you from my comment…turn on the light in the basement, my friend.
that made no sense pal
Makes COMPLETE sense, but to an internet troll like yourself I can understand your confusion.
73 is his IQ.
20 pts higher than yours, moron.
There’s that famous New York wit. “NO U!”
Try harder, inbred.
Mo- there is no reason to take this personally. This is one of the richest organizations in sports trying to rob a player because …. he went to a doctor? Maybe if they save money towards the luxury tax, I could see it. But I don’t know how the league could ever let that happen. That would open a dangerous precedent that all teams would start taking advantage of on bad contracts. This is purely just them crying poor. You can try and spin that however you want, but you’re just looking like a homer.
Depends on what’s in the contract. Neither you nor I know. You can’t call them cheap if they have a perfectly legitimate legal right to which Ellsbury agreed. Frankly, I don’t know. But that seems to be what the Yankees are claiming. We shall see. I just find it irritating that people who also don’t know are jumping in to judge.
The name of this site is RUMORS.
It’s intended to speculate and discuss theories based upon snipets of infomation.
Just because the rumors and comment discussion go against your team this time doesnt change the entire premise of the site and the comments section.
Speculation IS the purpose here – otherwise it’d be MLB Trade News.
And it’s perfectly legit then for me to criticize the baseless speculation. We don’t have the contract. We aren’t high-powered sports lawyers. We have no idea how this is going to turn out, whether one side wins, one side loses or there’s some kind of settlement. Speculation is masturbation in this siutation.
I dont think Ellsbury deserves any of that money. There should be an incentive for players to actually play out their contracts
>> Kpaul:
There should be an incentive for owners not to sign ridiculous contracts
Mo, they are cry babies cuz they hafta pay him now!
pasha2k
You never know what you are talking about and you always sound like a 9-year-old.
It’s pretty rich of the Yankees to withhold Ellsbury’s salary when they have been comitting insurance fraud for the last 2 years and collecting on his salary.
Hal Steinbreener really needs another Yacht guys, feel bad for him.
Interesting…..
Michael Brantley – Yankees sitting on their butts
Pactrick Corbin – Yankees sitting on their butts
Charlie Motron – Yankees sitting on their butts
AJ Pollick – Yankees sitting on their butts
Zack Greinke – Yankees sitting on their butts
Matt Scherzer – Yankees sitting on their butts
Gerrit Cole – Yankees sitting on their butts
José Abreu – Yankees sitting on their butts
Morton and Scherzer are the only ones worth signing there.
no to corbin brantley and cole????
I’m surprised Mo. Not challenging your opinion just surprised. As a Yankee fan, I would have taken corbin and brantley in a NY minute over gardy cc and happless. Especially since they cost almost exactly the same last year
As for Cole, it depends on the amount. $225MM, yes, Above that, no. Too much can go wrong and that’s a lot of money to fork out if he flops or gets injured. Look at Price.
I will continue to copy and post this list all off season long and right through 2020.
Yankees = Believe it when you see it.
Classy.
So far what the Yankees are worried about while other teams are making moves. Worried about Brett Gardner and J Ellsworth. Smoke and Mirrors followed by more smoke and mirrors. Still won’t fix the glaring holes they have.
This shouldn’t even be news should have let this bum go along time ago. This is a diversion for Yankees fans that’s all it is.
Definition of diversion
1: the act or an instance of diverting or straying from a course, activity, or use
If no proper language not to pay the athlete was established in the signed valid contract then the Yankees will have no choice but to pay Jacoby, pure and simple…
Absolutely true. If there is proper language, and I believe it must be reasonably disputable for the Yanks to bother making the case, then they will win. It’s for the court to decide. Not the motley crew assembled here.
So this is really about the Yankees trying to save anything they can to get under that CBT threshold and not have their tax rate increased again. They got under it in 2018, but a second year will increase their tax rate. The other possibility is they are planning on spending but don’t want to go too far over the CBT and incur additional penalties.
This should be an interesting fight to follow……
While Elsbury was indeed a bust. Yankee money should have enabled Cashman to work around it.
The issue here is whether or not, this affects the way future players would agree to sign with the team?
Yankees claiming Ellsbury received “unauthorized treatment” on his injuries for “multiple years.” Why are we just hearing about a NYY claim now? Did the Yankees fail to assert their legal claim/rights (multiple years!?!) in a timely fashion? If so an arbitrator may bar the claim. Ultimately the NYYs likely back down.
Dave Chappelle famously signed a 2 year/$50 million deal that he bailed on years ago. That money was contingent on 25 episodes per season for two seasons. He never did. He never got his money. Had he delivered even one episode he’d have received the $1M for that eoysude. He never did. He also didn’t pursue the money he was “owed” for not showing up. He went to Africa on his own dime seeking some kind of cosmic solace.
Ellsbury getting outside rehab and not communicating or showing up for rehab games etc should be treated the exact same way.
Seems like Ellsbury is in the same boat. This isn’t releasing an injury plagued player taking their at bats. It’s formally admitting a harsh truth that’s been weighing on the team for at least 2 seasons if not 4.
I suggested something like this a few articles ago. I’m not saying I knew this would happen or I’m a genius I’m just saying for all you people making digs about the Yankees crying poor it’s not about financial flexibility it’s a question of FRAUD.
If a player makes no effort to come back but collects their paychecks at some point in any other industry they get fired and don’t get paid.
Oh good, a preview of Giancarlo Stanton in 2023 🙂
funny and sadly good point perhaps….
Don’t forget though Pavano earned his keep, because he lived in a Yankee sponsored MRI tube, There is a fine line here….
At base, it’s a contract law issue. But it brings up some interesting points. Should the employer have sole discretion in deciding medical care? How much of Els’ body and physical well-being belongs to the Yankees? To expand, if I have to pay for your medical care, do I have the right to insist you eat green beans instead of Twinkees?
I have a feeling (unless it gets settled, which is the most likely scenario; it really is all about the Benjamin’s) , it could reverberate into lots of other sports, and other areas.
I can’t recall any instances outside of legal lack of capacity or a medical power of attorney where a court has upheld the power of a third party to coerce, restrict, or dictate the medical treatment of a persons body.
It’s why so many articles end with players getting multiple options then the player deciding to get TJ surgery, or stick more conservative, etc.
Id fully expect a team having the right to refuse to pay for such treatment making it a player expense. But I don’t know they get final decision making power, and, I’d expect any contract provision otherwise to be considered void as against public policy?
It would be nice to have more facts before judging whether this is a legitimate position to take. And remember it might be a reasonable claim by the Yankees that an arbitrator or a court decides isn’t sufficient enough to void the contract. There has to be something here to make them go forward.
What a classless move by the Yankees! Bad contracts in MLB happen all the time. Look at their rivals with Panda, Pedroia, Han Ram, etc. Pedroia left the team last year and went home, but the Red Sox are still honoring his contract. Panda had a weight clause in his deal (which he didn’t meet) but Sox paid him anyways. This will have a negative effect on the Yankees organization with prospective free agents for sure! So the Yankees has better be ready to pay a 20% premium on Cole, Stras, Rendon, etc…or there is no way their agents will recommend they sign with them after this ridiculousness.
Ya, I don’t think it’s going to take a 20% premium to draw free agents to New York, that’s a huge stretch. It’s the Yankees. At least half of the guys coming up have dreamed about raking in the money while wearing the pinstripes and living in NYC.
You are significantly over exaggerating the amount of players that want to play for the Yankees.
Yeah n the Redsox weren’t cry babies like the Evil Empire are atm.
Apparently there’s no comparison between Panda and Ellsbury, because the Yankees say he broke his contract. You don’t have the facts to know whether he did or didn’t so you’re just blowing it out your piehole.
p.s., the Red Sox are the Evil Empire because they bought the ’18 WS with the largest payroll ever. They outspent everyone by $30MM. Evil Empire!
@Mo4ever
I’d say the Red Sox are more Evil Duchy, MAYBE Evil Kingdom as of yet. They still need to win a dozen more titles to be truly worthy of EMPIRE status.
Yankee fan I am, but I like this one. Evil Duchy sounds right. I’d be willing to grant Evil Kingdom if people insisted,
Unless the Yankees have serious evidence this is a waste of time and an uphill battle they are facing.
My guess is the Yankees insurance company is forcing them to do this or else they’d refuse to pay the claim to the Yankees. Not that they might not try it anyway but it seems highly unlikely the Yankees will be successful – baseball contracts can almost never be voided. And also if this were truly such a big issue for the Yankees (the outside medical stuff) why didn’t they file greviences, etc prior to now. I’m not saying Ellsbury didn’t do anything wrong – in fact even going back to when he was on the Red Sox he would seemingly sit out absurd lengths of time for ‘questionable’ injuries — but regardless there’s no shot the Yankees win this one.
On another note — what happens if there is a settlement? Cap/Luxury-tax wise? That could be an interesting loophole if somehow reaching a settlement with a player allows the club to void some of the $ from the luxury tax line!? I mean they could essentially agree to pay him the full amount but because it wouldnt technically be a salary — would that still count against their cap? That part will be quite interesting to see how the rules/regulations in MLB play-out as its possible the Yankees could have actually found a great loophole in the system. And from Ellsbury’s perspective – if he does intend to play again in 2020. Reaching a settlement to void his current contract would actually allow him to then go and sign as a FA for more than the league minimum and essentially cash in by having 2-contracts at once for the upcoming season — it’ll be interesting/possibly precedent setting if it does indeed go that route. Which may actually lead to MLB having to implement a rule change should the Yankees actually be able to successfully expose such a loophole. Too bad the Red Sox didn’t think of it with Fat Panda!! haha
I think you’re assuming that the contract does not say that the Yankees have a say in what treatment is/isn’t undertaken. If that weren’t the case I’d agree with you. If it is the case, if the Yankees do I have a say, then I don’t know where you get your certainty from.
As for why the Yankees haven’t pursued this in the past, why they are doing this now I can only venture a guess, which is just that: until now they thought he might actually come back. Once they DFA’d him, clearly, they put that hope behind them and decided to pursue legal action. Or, as you say, the insurance company stepped in…
As I understand, the last year of this contract was totally uninsured. So the insurance company stands to gain nothing from this release, so they wouldn’t have forced the Yankees hand.
In fact, a fair reading of the situation is that the Yankees were willing to live with the alleged non-compliance as long as insurance was picking up the bulk of the contract; only once they were on the hook for the full amount did they decide to fight over this.
As for all the comments above speculating about whether the Yankees get any say in his treatment- of course they do. Not just in sports, but any time anyone is getting paid even though they are not able to work due to injuries. The fire fighter who hurts his back- sure, he can get his disability pay. But he has to comply with reasonable medical treatment. If he blows off his physical therapy he risks losing his pay.
I forget the exact standard language, but it is something along the lines of reasonable non invasive care that the average person would pursue. So, you can’t be forced to have surgery, or take opioids, or something else with decides risks, but you are expected to do things like PT and to NOT do things that could make it worse (playing gold, etc.)
Another great point made above. If the Yankees are claiming that Ellsbury has been violating his contract for years, then the insurance company that has been paying the Yankees for Ellsbury’s absence will absolutely file a countersuit here to reclaim payments made, since the terms of the original contract were violated. This is a huge can of worms that the Yankees should just not open. This will not end well for the team and will cause irreparable damage with the MLBPA. Very short sighted decision here…hopefully they realize this and back off.
You must be a very sophisticated lawyer to judge with such certainty. I have no idea what will come of this and I’m certainly not going to sit around pretending that I do. Maybe you should think about that.
I wonder if this will hurt his chances of the Yankees retiring his number?
… Not as much as facial hair would
Talk about a cheapassed team. The mets are still paying bonilla, yankees trying to weasel out of a contract. LOL
Did Bonilla break his contract? That’s what the Yanks are claiming Ellsbury did and neither you nor I know whether that is the case. Arbitrators/courts will decide.
You’re jumping in with judgment solely because of your personal bias. You know nothing about this.
Relax moe… we said the Yankees are cheapskates and hustlers and big money greedybastards… not you. You act like you’re a member of the team.
Lol, there’s no way the Yankees are getting out of this contract. You shat the bed now you’ve got to lie in it, it happens to every team.
How do you know? Have you seen the contract? I haven’t. I have no idea how this will turn out. But a) not having seen the contract and b) not being a high-powered sports lawyer, I’m not going to sit here and pretend I do know. So how is it you know?
Have you ever heard of a team voiding a contract because they got their own doctor? They can’t even successfully void contracts when players get arrested for things like domestic violence or soliciting prostitution and violate the “personal conduct” part of the contract, which is a heck of a bigger deal than getting your own medical treatment.
I reiterate my original statement, there is no way the Yankees will successfully void JE’s contract.
This will significantly hinder their ability to sign free agents for a very long time if they actually go through with this.
Yeah, I doubt that.
Why? They don’t spend the way they used to. If you’re not going to outspend other clubs, you need to win guys over with being a first class organization. If you can do neither, what’s the appeal?
As a Red Sox fan, this is one of the very few times I have ever hoped that the Pinstripes win.
So because he was trying to get better – just not in a way the Yankees approved of – it is going to cost him $21 million? He’d have been better off doing nothing to rehab.
Let this be a lesson for all you kids out there – don’t try. The Yankees say so.
Depends on what contract you signed, kids. The arbitrators will decide. Not you.
Rousing pep talk, Mo. I’m sure children everywhere now want to try harder because Mr. Arbitrator man might just award them what they were already entitled to most likely.
Depends on what contract you sign, or do you think each person out to be able to decide whether or not they adhere to a contract they sign.
SUSPICIOUS!!!
To a Red Sox fan. Since you have no idea whether or not Ellsbury broke the contract–which the arbitrators will decide–your comment is SUSPICIOUSly biased.
Ellsbury fell apart physically from the time he started in mlb.
Well here we go. This couldnt have happened at a worse time with how bad relations are between the MLBPA and team owners. As a fan, I’m getting sick of both sides and am starting to want to see a work stoppage in 2020 rather than waiting on the cusp of one. Go behind the barn and just get the fight over with already.
I don’t have sympathy for either side and neither should anyone else. This is millionaires vs bilionaires. Does anyone really think Hal Steinbrenner is going to drop sales prices if the Yankees win this? The Yankees are one of the most markitable franchises in all of professional sports and they’re the favorite to win the division and one of the favorites to win the world series. Hal would probably sell fold out metal chairs in the parking lot as “extended stadium seating” for $85 even if he wins.
What should the fans REALLY being angry about? We are the ones that put the money into this insane system. Our dollars fill the bank accounts of the owners and players alike. If we stopped watching, stopped buying their products, stopped going to games, there wouldnt be money for the owners and players to fight over. But we are the ones forgotten about when they fight over money.
Good try, Yankees. Only way I see this shaking out is a cadre of Yankees lawyers shaking their heads mournfully while Ellsbury makes it rain and Mo4ever cries in the corner.
Because you’ve seen the contract and are the greatest sports attorney ever!!! Got it!
I’m not saying I know how this turns out. I just think it’s ridiculous that average schmoes like you think you do.
Mo4ever…..this issue is covered by the CBA not individual contracts ARTICLE XIII—Safety and Health
Fair enough. Thanks. And thanks for your comments below. Finally someone who is not just speculating off the top of their heads or out of their Red Sox piehole. Thanks.
No problem. I find things like the CBA and JDA interesting……it’s an illness lol
I’m pretty sure I understand contract law better than some loudmouth simpleton whose parents and schools failed him.
Ellsbury and Boras are going to make Cashman grab his ankles. Accept it and move on.
shame on you, junkees!
They have a legitimate right to seek damages if Ellsbury has broken the contract. There’s no shame in that among adults. They’d be fools not to. If Ellsbury did not break the contract, then he’ll get paid.
How old are you?
He’s acting older than the crybaby abhorrent billionaire owners of the Yankees are.
Mr. Madison, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
Sounds like something George Costanza would try to pull off for the Yankees
Medical procedures and second opinions etc are covered in the CBA not individual contracts as so many keep saying. Specifically ARTICLE XIII—Safety and Health
D) Second Medical Opinion as well as Attachment 35 of the CBA.
It’s much too long to print here but some specifics are…” a Player shall inform the Club
in writing of his decision to seek a second medical opinion, and the name of the physician who will be performing the diagnosis and medical ‘evaluation.”.
The sticking point that I see with the little info we have relates to this….”the Club shall pay the cost of the “second evaluation,” including transportation and hotel costs. Expenses for “second evaluations” by medical specialists who are not on the accepted listing shall be authorized and paid only by prior written agreement between the Player and the Club.
If JE did not notify the club about other opinions or treatments and no “written agreement between the Player and the Club” was reached than he violated the CBA.
Good info there, Cat. Thanks for posting.
My takeaway is he does have the right to be treated as he wishes, so long as he notified NY in writing.
If not, he violated the CBA. So I guess NY would have a grievance. I think it’s a tacky and dirty card to play, but that’s just personal opinion.
Well we don’t know if he notified them. The Yankees are claiming it was not approved. Approval and notification are not the same. Also, there is the letter of the law and the sprit of the law. If the purpose of notification is to cover expenses, but JE sought noreimbursement, is he in violation of the spirit of the law?
Cat Mando — not quite right. Your cited part of the CBA actually supports Ells winning any Arb. By including a penalty dealing with Medical fees and expenses and not mentioning any right to void the contract the CBA clause cited supports the MLPA’s position that there is no right to void the contract. That is why you have never seen this tried before when this has happened many times.
stan lee the manly….It.s a bit more complicated than that. What I quoted was only 2 small blips from the CBA. Basically the Club has the right to designate Doctors and hospitals, an extensive list covering all areas of the country, which the MLBPA must agrees to.
If a player circumvents the procedures and goes to a Dr. with the clubs knowledge for a baseball related injury…….. that is against the CBA
Hmmmm…Seems that Stan’s comment vanished
Weird, I don’t know where it went. But thanks for the reply, that’s pretty interesting.
I still don’t think they possibly stand a chance in voiding his contract based on failed attempts for a myriad of reasons in the past, but still interesting.
With the injuries they had and the circus surrounding them, I may have looked elsewhere for treatment as well. They cannot win this.
Hasn’t he stolen enough if their money?
“Of”
He hasn’t stolen anything, he signed a contract and he deserves to be paid it.
He hasnt stolen anything, the Yankees owners have stolen more from him you could ever think.
Some team with no expectations should offer him a minor league contract. Worse case he doesn’t make the team. Best case he plays well and they flip him at the deadline.
Wait…is that the Evil Empire I hear whimpering about bombing on a FA contract? It happens, take your medicine…Darth Vader would be disappointed in you…
The world’s greatest sports attorney speaks.
btw, the Red Sox are the Evil Empire now. They won the ’18 WS with the highest payroll ever by $30MM. They BOUGHT it.
Hate the Red Sox as you may, but the “honor” of highest payroll belongs to the 2017 Dodgers, who are still looking for their first ring in over three decades!
Sorry Mo4 but you should get your facts straight before spouting off. The Red Sox did not have the highest pay roll ever.
The Evil Empire has become the Money Pit. One of the highest payrolls and nothing to show for it. Now they are trying to steal money from their employees. Typical greedy 1%ers.
This is gonna be good
And they’ll have to pay 26mil to him in the end. Jacoby Ellsbury hasn’t been good since 2013 and prior to that.
He never has play again
The Billionaire Yankees don’t want to pay out a contract they agreed on. Yankees are a disgrace to baseball for a move like this.
Why all this speculation? Either there is something in the CBA or Ellsbury’s contract about team control over treatment, or there is not. Follow the f_cking contract!
Well even if the Yankees win the dispute make them have to donate to a bunch of communities or schools so people can really benefit from the money
MLB contracts need to return to reality. It is ruinous for teams to sign guaranteed contracts in good faith in return for the players to not stay in shape or not to eliminate activities outside MLB that would negatively effect their performance. If they can’t perform they should be able to get cut. Its not like they are anywhere near the poverty line.
Its funny that you think billionaires stealing even more of the profits from the people who make them, the players, is “reality”.
For the last time you imbecile, baseball players DESERVE MORE MONEY THAN YOU. What they do directly causes BILLIONS of dollars in profit. They DESERVE their fair share. You do not want them to have their fair share, youd rather a billionaire get richer. Your opinion is disgusting and abhorrent and an affront to American society Change your views or stop participating in conversations.
Idiot!!!!!
As a Yankee fan who hated this contract the second it was signed: Hal, pay the man his money. You guaranteed him this absurd contract, and unless the contract is voided it’s still going to count against the LTT so it’s not like you can pretend you’ll reinvest the savings from it into payroll anyway, so stop pinching pennies, live up to your bad investment and move on.
Cash gave him the deal and yes Hal should pay it
Its kind of like a spoiled child. Yankees didn’t get what they wanted so suddenly they decide to pick up all their marbles and go home.
The excuse about using a rehab facility other then the Yankee one is lame. Yankees must really want the money to stay under the luxury tax and to make a run at one of the top free agent pitchers.
It didn’t take the union very long to fire it’s warning shot.
Without reading this no-doubt train wreck of a thread, let me guess: there’s lots of non-millionaire moron homer Yankee fans who are unbelievably clueless about labor laws defending billionaire owners (the richest owners in pro sports btw) who wouldn’t spit on them if they were on fire, over a player who worked his entire life to get to MLB and did everything the right way and just so happened to get hurt, causing the greedy scumbag owners to cry poor of all things (we KNOW how rich they are!) acting as if player A making X amount of money impacts their offer for free agent A, which is absolute BS at every possible angle.
Did I get it right? lol
Truly is pathetic. Just goes to show why these greedy billionaires became exactly that, billionaires. Probably sleep with their mothers for extra change. And for them, this is nothing more than extra change. Not honouring a guys contract, no matter injuries, performance, is the lowest of the low. And for the Yankees to be doing this out of all teams is just flat out pathetic.
No you got it wrong as usual
You can add your comment to the dumpster fire. This isn’t about billionaires vs millionaires. It’s about abiding contract agreements. Take a deep breath. Everything is going to be OK.
yankees are in the right, theyvw got better lawyers to reinforce that. no mercy for the jealous ailing player who couldn’t make it in the show.
Outstanding and about time these teams start doing this. There has to be some warranty of the contract and some of these players have been getting away with everything just short of murder. I think the Yankees will win this one, maybe after a long fight, but I do believe they will come out on the right side of this (I don’t think they would have even attempted if they thought otherwise).
There might be the “Ellsbury precedent” referenced in future years. I didn’t read other comments because I imagine it’s a peg above remedial reading with most people criticizing the Yanks, but once again, this is good for baseball and let the Yankees lead the way.
The MLBPA needs to have its rear handed to them over faulty contracts.
Lol..the Yankees only hope is a medical retirement/settlement..
If not they will owe him every penny…plus interest if not paid by dates mandated in the CBA.
Also, if Yankees paid for his rehab at this location… Case Closed
Rear handed to them lol
That’s not going to happen!
Long story short there’s going to be a settlement agree to and that’s that!
I am seeing ideas of not paying players who haven’t played in over two or three years… here is my proposal. The MLBPA should say that any player that hasn’t played in 250 consecutive games should have their original salary cut by 50%. When the player plays 5 consecutive games after coming back, their salary should raise back to normal. That would make the team not have to pay for a full price for an absent slot. (For example: David Wright gets injured and doesn’t play for 250 games in a row, he gets 12.5 million instead of 25 million. He comes back, and after 5 games he gets paid his original salary.)
BTW: I used injuries as an example, it can be under different circumstances.
I’m an Ellsbury fan, he deserves all his money, it was negotiated by the Yanks. He will get all his money. This move gives the Yanks more time to make interest off his insurance moeny without giving the money out. It;s a business move by the Yanks, which makes sense. They got 45 million in insurance money over the last 3 years and with this economy they are making over 20% on that money. This is what is going to pay for the rest of his contract. Yanks are a big business, they make over 600 million a year. Hopefully Ellsbury will give some of his fortunes to his native indians.
“Any treatment a Player receives for a Work Related Injury”
Oh dear…the phrase “work-related” makes things complicated IMO.
I’m not taking sides but every team has a medical rehab protocol. If Ellsbury violated terms in his contract, the team has every right pursue a fight. Say the Yankees wanted to him to take a slow approach to getting healthy two years ago. Ellsbury decided to go outside team recommendation and work with other pros to do more aggressive rehab. He gets hurt in that process. Should that be OK? Another example to look at is Aaron Hicks. He was pretty much ruled out for the Yankees postseason due to arm issues. He started throwing on his own in rehab and felt good doing so. Hicks went on to play in postseason games. Now he needs TJ surgery and will miss significant time. I’m almost certain that the Yankees OK’d him to start throwing then.
Except if he felt their was a misdiagnosis or team physicians weren’t helping it’s still his body. Even in the Hicks example, it was torn significantly enough that TJ was going to be required at some point. He threw without team consent and somewhat forced their hand. At the end of the day you could make more so of a valid argument that this was in fact motivated in lieu of trying to free up space due to threshold limitations. Everything from a Yankees perspective seems fishy tbh.
I agree that it may look suspect but it’s a situation difficult to assess without all the facts which we may never get. I don’t however feel that the Yankees are acting egregiously by attempting to withhold owed money without merit. That won’t bode well for them in their attempts to sign future elite players to “lifetime” contracts.
You people talking about how the Yankees are selfish are clueless. It’s about freeing up money towards the luxury tax which has a variety of penalties if they go over. Saving money on Ellsbury would allow them to allocate the money to a useful player. In addition none of know the true story and everything involved, so judging it is pretty silly.
If it’s about voiding a guy’s contract because they want to free up money toward the luxury tax, so they’re not paying more, that’s the definition of selfish. It doesn’t matter if they sign another player or not, it’s about saving themselves money. There’s no hard cap.
Actually, they are near enough to the threshold where they would start losing draft picks, that this could matter for that reason.
Luxury tax financial penalties are not really killers. The Red Sox paid the highest amount this year, but what they paid to the league for luxury tax was less than what they paid Pablo Sandoval to play for the Giants. The draft penalties are actually more severe.
Els is a boras client..so this will bite the genius in the long run.
They signed him, he was a bust just move the F on. Why piss off the union and the games preniere
Agent over sunk costs??
It stupid, the recoup some coin via insurance.
Look they may have a case- I’m just questioning the fight.
Sorry I got cut off
Players on the juice have more breakdowns with their bodies.
Pay the man wtf you signed him for this long pay him the length of the contract
Very interesting article about this on CBS Sports. While the Yankees had an insurance policy on Ellsbury’s contract for 2018 & 2019, they do NOT have a policy for his 2020 season. Funny how the Yankees decide to do this for the 2020 season, when this supposedly unauthorized treatment took place in 2018-2019. To me, this makes the Yankees look even worse.
While I’d love to see MLB move away from fully guaranteed contracts (more like the NFL), the fact of the matter is that this is not in place now and this seems like a real reach by the Yankees (albeit a creative one) to try and get out of a non-insured guaranteed salary commitment. Odds are in favor of the player here, and if this goes to court, there is no way this case is settled prior to the start of the season, so the ‘hope’ of his contract not counting against the 2020 cap is minimal at best. I’m guessing that current Yankee players are not going to be happy with this decision by the club. Not a good idea to piss off your employees…MLB has the strongest union of all professional sports and this will create a divide between current players and management/ownership. Bold strategy, Cotton!
1) I’m not going to feel bad for the Yankees. Everyone knew this was a bad contract the minute it was done.
2) I hope Ellsbury gets every dime he’s entitled to from his contract. If teams can just start voiding contracts because they don’t feel they’re getting their money’s worth, it sets a bad precedent.
3) The Yankees were getting insurance payments on Ellsbury’s salary the last few seasons. which is why they didn’t cut him loose before. Those insurance payments ran out for 2020.
4) The Yankees were going to eat that money no matter what. It’s unlikely that Ellsbury, at 36, two years removed from his last game, and with his injury history, would’ve lived up to his $21 million salary. He probably would’ve been released anyway. No team is trading for the remainder of that contract.
So the insurance ran out. It usually does after two or three years. I’m no fan of Ellsbury but PAY HIM. The only reason for this is cheap–they want him to have to pay to defend himself. Owners using infinite resources against a player with limited, albeit large, personal resources. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Mets had similar deal with Beltran and now he is their manager, it’business.
Dude has been stealing money since he inked the deal. He’s the case study for non-guaranteed deals in MLB. I’ve been all for non-guaranteed deals for at least a decade. Albatross contracts due to injury or flat out Albert Haynesworth/KungFu Panda laziness. Guys that leach on teams, forcing teams to keep them on the 40-man, preventing guys from getting the call-up. Make it easier to drop the turds and promote players with a more worthy justification to play. Blocking Frazier basically for most of the contract.
When players are hurt for a long time (60 day IL) you can remove them from the 40 man roster and replace them with another player so Ellsbury didn’t block anyone; he just blocked spending of sorts because the Yankees were cheap. They have the most revenue in baseball, yet refused to go over the cap for multiple years.
Personally, I’d love to see MLB allow each time to be able to ‘write off’ one contract from the cap and/or be able to deduct the value of the contract while the player is on the 60 day IL. The player would still get paid, but since it wouldn’t count against the cap, teams could spend more, making players happy and not affecting their overall cap number.
That isn’t exactly true. A player has to be put back on the 40 man roster during the off-season.
It’s not that I don’t see a potential valid argument by the Yankees it’s would they be making it if he was a better player at this point? If the end result was different would he be released with refusal to pay? It just doesn’t play well or look good for an organization known to attract big name players. I’m not saying his salary is nothing but it just doesn’t seem worth it. Maybe there are more examples of this that weren’t as big and I missed them but I’ve heard teams complain when a player goes against a teams medical wishes before but never heard any refuse to pay him his contract
The Mets tried to void Cespedes’ contract. I don’t agree with voiding or refusing to pay a contract. For me, the issue isn’t whether Ellsbury or Cespedes are performing to their contracts; it’s teams trying to wiggle out of bad contracts. I agree that fighting over Ellsbury’s money isn’t worth it. 2020 is the final year of his contract, and it’s not like the Yankees have been spending anyway.
I’ve never seen so many people arguing about rather a bum that scoured more money than Pavano for nothing should get his last $26 mil payday for sitting at the house! I firmly believe that if Boras and Ellsbury went to different doctors that performed procedures that caused further damage, the Yankees should be able to void his contract. They have team doctors that are covered by their insurance that teams send their players to. In the real world, if you get hurt on the job you have to go to the doctors as directed or they can void your claim, pay you nothing and make you go back to work. Same should apply here. Ellsbury is a prime example of a steroid abuser that his body is tearing apart. He chose to go to unauthorized doctors that would keep his big secret under wraps! The same tactics have been done by Giambi, McGwire, Canseco, and the list can go on forever. He cheated with PED’s, which a lot of his teammates have stated, and his body broke down. You play those games, you should pay the consequences.
He cheated with PED’s, which a lot of his teammates have stated, and his body broke down.
—————————————————————–
I’ve never heard anything. Care to provide some documentation?
Yankees better have some illicit photos of Ellsbury.
If not good luck to them.
Agents-
Yanks wanna sign ya.
Player-
Remember that time with Ellsbury?
…..
I’ll pass.
Anyone who pays for insurance knows that you don’t just go to any doctor you want to go to. This is also covered under the CBA.
Will be really interesting to see what the current Yankees players have to say about this. They could potentially lose the clubhouse here. Stanton & Hicks had better take note of this and say bye bye to Betances as well!
There’s kind of a fine line when it comes to these medical decisions. One could argue a person/player has a career or a life after his current contract and following the teams wishes might not line up with their future best interests. What if it’s a young guy a team doesn’t plan on resigning beyond arbitration years should the player have no say in his own health decisions because he’s under contract? Is it ok to file an insurance claim which is basically saying we owe this player money but he’s injured please pay his salary per our agreement but then refuse when it’s your money? I’m shocked they are trying this it must have gotten personal somehow
Just another bold move by the “ Genius” Cashman. He needs to see a Dr. after handing out some of the contracts he has handed out. Hope he keeps it up so it will be another decade of not being relevant. Ellsbury is dreaming if he thinks anyone other than Cashman would sign him now and Cashman just put a fork in him.
If they get out of paying Ellsbury, who do you think Cashman will sign next that is injury prone? He’s got to be eyeing a trade for Syndergaard or maybe Alex Reyes of the Cardinals!! Worst GM in baseball and probably a first ballot HOFer like Jeter because he was a Yankee, not because he earned it!!
“Worst GM in baseball”….. The Phillies will take Cashman and his four WS trophies if ya take Klentak…deal?
Stay classy Yankees.
Note that the 2020 year is the only one to date not covered by insurance.
If smellsbury went to the yankees approved doctor and that led to his career being over, could he sue the yankees for the potential lost income of say $100M?