Yankees closer Aroldis Chapman is pursuing an extension but otherwise plans to utilize the opt-out clause in his five-year contract, per MLB Network’s Jon Heyman (Twitter link). A decision on that opt-out provision is due tomorrow, leaving his representatives at Magnus Sports with a small window to work out a new deal. (Although, presumably, the two sides have already been in contact well before today’s report.)
Chapman, 32 in February, has two years and $30MM remaining on the five-year, $86MM pact he inked prior to the 2017 season. In the event that an extension isn’t reached, the Yankees will surely issue him a $17.8MM qualifying offer, which he’ll reject in order to head into free agency. (That much is evident based on logic and common sense; if Chapman is to walk away from $30MM over the next two seasons, he’d certainly decline less than that on a one-year term even if it included a relatively small bump in terms of yearly salary.)
At 32, another five-year deal for Chapman won’t be there in free agency. Realistically, a three-year deal seems like the most plausible outcome whether it manifests with the Yankees tacking an extra year onto his current deal (as they did with CC Sabathia several years ago) or via an open-market agreement. Chapman’s $86MM guarantee is still a record among relief pitchers, but he’d have the opportunity to set another new record on the open market by taking aim at Wade Davis’ precedent-setting annual salary ($17.33MM). Anything north of $52MM over a three-year term — or even something like $36MM over a two-year term — would give Chapman the relief pitcher records in both total guarantee and AAV.
Chapman’s on-field performance in 2019 was arguably the best of any of his three full seasons under his current deal. He tossed 57 innings — his most since signing — and worked to a pristine 2.21 ERA with averages of 13.4 strikeouts, 4.0 walks and just 0.47 home runs allowed per nine innings pitched. That home-run rate is particularly impressive given his hitter-friendly home parks (and several others in the AL East) as well as the league-wide homer spike with this year’s superball. Chapman racked up 37 saves in 2019, marking his seventh 30-save season in the past eight years.
It’s true that Chapman doesn’t throw as hard as he used to. But while he’s no longer averaging 100.4 mph on his heater, this season’s 98.4 mph average still ranked as the sixth-highest among the 458 relievers who tossed at least 10 innings. In all, he’s given the Yankees 158 2/3 innings of 2.61 ERA ball with 91 saves, 14.0 K/9 and 4.3 BB/9 over the first three years of the deal (including two All-Star nods). He’s added on another 16 1/3 innings of 1.65 ERA ball with a 29-to-7 K/BB ratio in the postseason, though this year’s final impression — a series-ending, walk-off homer to Jose Altuve — wasn’t a favorable note on which to end that otherwise strong run.
Some may point to Craig Kimbrel as evidence that Chapman should be wary of venturing into free agency as a reliever with a qualifying offer attached to his name, but Kimbrel should rather serve as a lesson in the importance of managing expectations. If Chapman goes to market seeking a record-setting guarantee over five or six years, as Kimbrel apparently did, then he’ll indeed have his share of troubles. If he’s seeking out a more palatable four- or three-year pact, he could have an easier time, as was the case with the aforementioned Davis two winters ago when he signed his own record deal in Colorado. Even Kimbrel himself ultimately landed a strong three-year deal worth a prorated $43MM when he ultimately did put pen to paper.
I totally understand the whole get-it-while-you-can mentality, but as a reliever in his 30s turning down a guaranteed $30 million… that’s got to be a risky call there.
I agree, but I could see someone giving him more. Hell, I’d like Atlanta to take a flyer on him for 3 years. Atlanta needs some gas throwers in the 9th.
Keep him far away from Atlanta
Bryce Wilson should be getting groomed for the closer role.
Keep Melancon & Greene in the 8th/9th inning roles. Move Wilson into the bullpen and let him grow into the role like Mariano did for the Yankees.
Wilson doesn’t have the makeup to close. I don’t hate the idea, but I don’t see it happening. If anyone on the team right now should be groomed to close, it’s Folty.
The smaller amount of hitters faced will help keep his emotions in check. He’s got the ability to throw hard, or locate a changeup if needed, etc.
But, if he needs to reach back and hit 99-100, he can. That’s what Atlanta needs.
Why any team would have a closer who throws less than 95 is beyond me.
Right, because Wilson can pitch. ATL continues to usher him around rarely giving him a start and never consecutive starts to establish any routine. You don’t need a thrower to closer, just someone that has an above average fastball and and an average 2nd pitch. Even then, your FB needs to have movement.
Have you seen Folty’s mental makeup ???
He implodes when something happens out of his control. Yes stuff wise he has the arsenal to be a closer but his mental part of the game is not a fit
Wilson is a bulldog and attacks hitters and if he gives up a big hit he is able to move on and still attack hitters.
You make closing sound so easy, yet they are by the players own admission the hardest 3 outs to get.. smh
Teufel – I’d rather have only 3 outs to get than 27. Or in Max Kellerman’s math, 36 outs.
Can anyone tell me the exact date and time both Champan and Strasbourg have to opt out by? I think they have until 3 days after the World Series which would be today but I haven’t heard what has happened and it is already nighttime on the third day after the World Series. Is it exactly 72 hours after the conclusion of game 7? Does that mean we might not know until midnight tonight?
That’s not what “take a flyer” means.
Haha. A 3 year multi million dollar flyer.
True true.
I doubt the Braves would take a flyer on Chapman. True, he’s a proven legit closer, but with Melancon set to make $14 million, I don’t see the Braves paying $30+ million to 2 late inning relievers, and I doubt there will be any takers for Melancon, unless the Braves eat about half of his $14 million that he will be owed in 2020.
Especially with his declining velocity.
I don’t know, worked out great for Kimbrel.
Goodbye
Someone will still pay him what he wants. Won’t be a ton of years. But if it’s only a two year plan, and the team is a serious contender, if I was a GM, I would want him in my bullpen.
Ownera are idiots for starting this opt out crap. 5 year risk for the team player can suck and keep the contract but play well and pay me more
@mustang66
Actually, opt outs can work well for a team. Think about it. Players opt out because they feel they are still performing at a high enough level that they can get more money that’s left on their contract. So that means the team has likely gotten their money’s worth from the player. If the player opts out the team might lose their service but if they let them walk then they are basically off the hook for the players declining years. The issue is, has the team prepared themselves for that possibility of letting the player leave.
So let’s assume Gerrit Cole signs for 7/$40 with an opt out after the 4th year. In his 4th year of the deal he’s around 33 and looking for an extension likely of at least 4+ years which takes him into age 37 or so. Those are the years, 33-37 where we start to see a decline. He might well still be a very good pitcher at that age but we see that very seldom. If he’s had 4 cy young caliber years in those first 4 seasons then consider yourself lucky and hopefully you squeezed a chip out of it. Let somebody else pay “prime” season price for his more than likely.
JD Martinez’ contract was for 5 years. If the Sox were given an option of signing him for 3 years or sign him for 5, they would absolutely take the 3.
What’s the supposed downside of giving a player an opt out? The player will only opt out if he’s injured or his performance has dropped off significantly. Well are you at just as much risk if you DON’T offer an opt out?
With most guys signing a team friendly deal, what’s the average age of most FA? 29-32? If you can sign one to a deal of 4 years max then that a win. Very little risk. Far less than a 32 opting out and wanting an extension or more aav.
The rude awaking will come when a player like Chapman opts out , at age 32 (in Feb) and has shown a slight sign that regression isn’t far behind. Someone can get a very rude awakening.
But the Yanks being the Yanks it may not be an awful idea if they tacked on 1 more year to his deal. They can absorb the risk if needed. Just have to hope it’s not apocalyptic. .
The reason opt outs are bad for teams is that the team bears all the risk. Players take a slight discount to increase their potential future earnings.
Teams, on the other hand, risk losing key contributors / valuable trade assets. If a player is performing well enough to opt out it means there is likely surplus value left on the contract. Why would you want to lose that player for nothing or have to pay him more for longer when he could be traded or kept had there been no opt out.
Your reasoning rests on the idea the player’s contract will go underwater in the year following the opt out, but if he has performed to that point there is no good reason to think his contract will immediately turn into a lemon.
The Nats are certainly happy Scherzer never had an opt out and are bummed Strasburg does. The Sox may have been hoping Price would be in peak form prior to his and then opt out, but if he was in peak form he would have been more valuable on the roster or as a trade chip.
The opt out can work in the team’s favor under very specific circumstances, but in most cases the team would be losing an asset for nothing.
I’m not saying opt outs are bad, I’m pro player and opt outs are extremely player friendly. But only one side of the table is accepting any risk with an opt out and it’s the team.
yep, but the team holds all the leverage in the players early career in terms of controllability. look what the cubs did to bryant, and the yanks I believe did to torres. it all even out I suppose.
Whoever pays him will be giving up more than dollars. Presuming the Yankees make a qualifying offer, the loss of a draft pick has to be counted as part of the team’s payout for 2-3 years of relief by Chapman. Is he worth it? I suppose it depends on the situation; of the team trying to acquire his services. That suggests to me that only teams planning to,contend will have any interest.
I’m guessing the Dodgers will pursue him and try the 2 headed closer role. They acquired him a few years ago but backed out of the deal after the domestic violence issue surfaced.
Unless that third or even fourth year lowers the AAV where the crisp isveirtj it, the team should let him walk, give him the QO and move on.
Whatever deal chapman gets, chapman just cant “beat” it
not something to joke about and don’t tell me to lighten up. Just don’t.
get off your soapbox, bro.
Except he was not accused of ever hitting anyone. He had a temper tantrum in a garage. Now sound and German. Weak pod
Not much risk there if he’s looking for more years and guaranteed money. AAV be darned. He has another big day coming.
He’s guaranteed to make more just by going to free agency. There’s no risk. The risk would be saying ok I’ll stay and pitch for two more years for 30 and the try to get a contract..at 36
3 years and $40 million is still more than his guarantee of $30 million. He won’t get the same AAV but more guaranteed money is what he is looking for.
Hope he opts out. Yankees get the draft pick they have players to take his place obviously the yankees need to beat Houston to make it to number 28 and he couldn’t get the job done and wants more money no thanks. I would give the big maple a shot at closing before i give Chapman more money his prime years are done. If last year didnt teach anyone that teams are not giving up a huge contract and a draft pick for a reliever then i dont know what will.
Angels will pay him. 🙂
Everyone has the Angles paying everyone.
vtncsc
Not everyone.
Only if this is geometry class.
It’s a sine of the times. The discussion always goes off on a tangent. We should stick to topics integral to the function of baseball.
Where’s the proof, Cap, that society is in such regression?
Good one!
Funny stuff, but if there is one thing not needed around here it is more advanced math.
I know. It’s such a slippery slope. I suggest that those of us who appreciate the math should set aside some time to talk over a nice loaf of mandelbrot. Would you cosine that proposal?
Don’t forget everyone believes second hand BS about Cole.
Boras likes going to the highest bidder, Cole prefers to play on the West Coast.
What’s this second hand BS they believe about Cole?
I think most people are capable of placing weight on how much or how little each will affect Cole’s decision.
To those who go into an endless loop when they encounter two contradictory pieces of information, they’ll have to dismiss one.
I’m surprised how many people fall into the latter category.
Boras likes going to the highest bidder, Cole prefers the highest bidder.
ForestCobraAL. So you dismissed one piece of information.
As I wrote, that’s common.
What’s common is people pulling pieces of “information” out of the rear ends and calling them facts.
This site seems more like the psychic friends network when you get into the comment section.
It’s information.
It could be the Astros are wrong, Reporters are wrong. Individuals are wrong. Google made up fake sites. Reddick is wrong. It’s Russia. It’s the Democrats. It’s the Republicans.
The fact of the matter is, it has been reported that Cole wishes to play on the West Coast. You can dismiss that or not. Boris has a tendency for long drawn out negotiations and go to the highest bidder. You can dismiss that or not.
What’s not common is people weighing information correctly. What is common is people dismissing information because they don’t like it.
@macstruts
Where he goes is up in the air but I have yet to see any article where Cole says he prefers the West Coast. And I don’t take what his teammates say seriously. I think they were joking. Why? It just strikes me as odd that a teammate would publicly state that Cole intends to leave Houston right in the middle of their pursuit to win a WS. That could be a huge distraction. Plus when do we ever hear of one player commenting publicly about where their current teammate is going to go?
SouthBeach.
That’s great. Your rational is sound.
The masses., us., are not pulling that information out of thin air. Some value it a great deal, some value it a little or not at all.
I value it “some” he chose to play on the West Coast. He chose UCLA when he had a chance to go to the Yankees or anywhere else in the country.
He also chose Boras. Moreno has a pattern. Boras has a pattern. Those patterns don’t mix.
There is lots of information to digest.
Did anything come directly out of Cole’s mouth concerning his preferences? Where is Cole directly quoted?
@macstruts
I feel like this all wasted energy once you think about it but you made a statement. You said Cole prefers the West Coast. All any of us are asking, is, what’s the source? When and where did Cole express a preference for the WC? Either you know him and he said it to you or he said it in an article?
I’m not assuming anything about where he will go but I also heard CC and Harper preferred the WC and neither ended up there. So…don’t take offense if ppl ask. You’re stating it like it’s a fact.
Nothing that I’m aware of came directly came out of Cole’s mouth.
However, it has come out of teammates mouths and when he did get a chance to choose a college, he chose UCLA and not the Yankees. He could have played anywhere.
That doesn’t prove anything, it’s simply evidence. It’s not everything and it’s not infallible, but I think it’s more than worthless.
My biggest evidence concerning where he’ll play is Boras. Boras and Moreno don’t mix. I think he’ll sign next year and if he does, it wont be with the Angels.
Based on history the Angels will land their best free agent during or shortly after the Winter meetings.
@vtncsc yes they do and what’s funny about that is the Angels aren’t going to pay anyone else beside Trout. They are fine finishing at or below .500 so long as they keep making a profit. The Angels suck.
Don’t tell these fruit flies that.
Fruit flies? More ad hominem attacks.
In order to know where the Angels will finish, at the very least you have to know how healthy they are going to be.
If you can do that, you’re in the wrong profession. And if you don’t recognize that, then you don’t know anything about the Angels.
Didn’t you say the the same thing last year. The Angels are the 4th best in team that division regardless, dude look at the standings. This is an article about Chapman, and the Yankees anyway.
I said if the Angels were healthy they would compete for a wild card. They weren’t and they didn’t Plus they lost Upton and Simmons and EVERY pitcher. Not some pitchers, EVERY pitcher.
Look at the standings? I understand why a baseball fan would do that, but it shows no understanding of the team. You don’t need an understanding of the team, but you talk about the team as if you know the team. You don’t.
And Someone brought up Cole and I was responding.
I highly doubt they will. If they wanted a high priced relief pitcher they would have signed one last year.
If he opts out, the list of teams willing to pay $15-18m/yr over 3-4yrs is like 1-3 teams.
the Angels won’t waste 3/$45-55m on that guy.
Yeah like they paid pujols.
He wont play for maddon ever again
I have a feeling the Yankees are very happy with his decision.
What?
Allow the guy to walk that gave up the HR that knocked the Yankees out of the playoffs?
Funny how no one brings that up.
Yes. Baseball players should be infallible. There was also a past Yankees’ closer who had given up a bloop single which resulted in a devastating WS loss – Mariano Rivera. I don’t know why the team kept resigning him.
Darn, you stole my retort, lowereast. Spot on.
Could’ve also referenced the wild throw to second earlier in the inning on the sac bunt.
Pretty much the whole team participated in losing that series.
@lowereastsider
Mo didn’t opt out of his contract and ask for more money immediately afterwards either.
For the record, you can’t really sum up a players worth on 1 incident whether it’s a hitter hitting a walk off homer or a relief pitcher coughing up one.
But it does take a pair of stone cojones to ask for more money right after you blew a game of that magnitude. At least from an optics perspective. But I get it…
Fair enough.
Good point but Chapman is no Rivera. Chapman has cracked in big game situations more than once. Mariano Rivera was unequivocally the best closer in baseball. Chapman is not.
*inserts “well……bye” gif”
he will be a yankee. comparing kimbrel to this is just stupid. kimbrel was insane.
LOL!
And the writers were lamenting when players weren’t getting signed. $100M+/6? How is it that kimbrel and no one in his circle told him that it was impossible. Even this year, with Chapman, if I had the money, I might go $70M/4, but that’s his absolute ceiling. And he’s a lot better than Kimbrel, and Kimbrel wanted 50% more?
No one was lamenting Kimbrel when talking about guys who don’t get paid. We predicted that exact 4/70 mark for Kimbrel a year ago and felt aggressive in doing so.
The whole “free-agent freeze” that is regularly referenced pertains far, far more to middle-class free agents than to the top-end guys. They generally get paid in the end one way or another. (As Kimbrel eventually did)
It’s much more curious to see guys like Mike Moustakas being paid less than they were in arbitration, for instance, than it is that no one wanted to pay Kimbrel $100MM+ (which I agree, seemed obviously well out of reach from day one).
Moustakas has produced three win or more seasons three times in ten years. He’s also produced less than one WAR four times.
$17 million is a big chunk of a payroll to allocate to a guy who you couldn’t hope to average more than two WAR over three or four years.
Then you look at how half the teams don’t want to pay anyone $17 million per year and don’t care if two spots in their opening day lineup project for less than two WAR.
Mr. Adams.
” writers were lamenting ”
People love creating strawmen.
ForestCobraAL
That’s a good post.
The problem with the arbitration model is the whole raise-upon-raise model.
I get why it’s there, it’s just that under the arb model you make more money each year for having the same, or even declining, production. Unless you’re injured or totally crater you’re making the same or a raise.
After 3 or 4 years of getting a raise for a flatline of output its no shock to see a pay cut – especially if your contract covers declining years/advanced age.
There’s got to be a middle ground on arb system awards. Pay something more in early years IF YOU PERFORM, but, if your performance doesn’t improve from one year to the next either does your salary. And likewise, if your performance regresses, so do your arb earnings.
Would players go for it? Nah, but it would be more sensible than what’s there now.
The problem with arbitration is that it uses all contracts to set value instead of seperating good and bad contracts.
it tells me Steve that the next agreement will have changes. The arb system of rewarding raises each year has got to change. Many first time players are hurt and get far less and some in later years get far more. JBJ is a perfect example of a screwed up situation. if he’s worth $11m in 2020, he should be worth that the following season. Not many consider him worth that much and many feel he should be cut instead.
Agreed. I just posted a similar thought.
There was on article, if you remember, where the writer said that there were 200 unsigned players. Other articles cited 100 unsigned free agents. At least one writer, to his credit, said none of those numbers were even remotely close. But the writers, overall, were completely out of touch.
There are always last-minute, fringy #25 types floating around. But like you said, mostly this was about numbers that were mostly known. Any delay was mostly about holding out for that final dollar.
Seems to me Chapman is holding a loaded gun. Not sure why he would wait till now to hold them up last min. Not that I care I love when the Evil armoire is spending, lol. Although they can’t come close to the insane baaaad spending the Redsox did in the past.
The Yankees have likely been well aware of his stance for awhile now.
Not the first time Chapman has held a loaded gun!
The only real question is how bad they beat him up over AAV.
Probably not as much as the Sox beat Buckner.
???
Sox fans beat him hard for decades. He wished he was dead. All over one player. Sox fans–and I grew up with them–have the emotional IQ of a 9 year old. Just think about what they did when Clemens left for more money, like that was the unspeakable crime of the century! Just gotta laugh.
And then they make jokes about domestic violence…
No, that hadta be the safest period in Redsox Nation history. I always felt bad he got blamed, but the press inflamed the fans which is sad.
You and the guys who liked your comment are no better than Taubman. He couldn’t take it seriously, either. Didn’t understand why, Like an 11-year-old on the playground. Look in the mirror and say Taubman, south carolina john, ’92. Don’t think about telling me to lighten up.
Wow, what a gift for the Yankees! Happy realizes that Cashman will issue a qualifying offer. Once that’s turned down, Chapman will be lucky to sign by early June.
@scjohn92
Can a team issue a QO to a player that opts out?
yes
And exactly who do they replace Chapman with? Britton? They’d be morons.
I doubt that’s what they’ll end up doing that but Britton was actually better than Chapman this year. He has extensive experience in closing games as well.
Not lately. If Britton (or Betances ) is the solution I’ll take the year off. Two bad ideas from the past, not the future.
Even as a RS fan, I recognize that Chapman is about the best in the game. He’ll have an offer before his opt-out becomes public,
They can extend him a year with a 3/45 and in the process lower their luxury tax hit. If they let him trigger his opt out, that’ll be a clear sign they intend to direct their resources toward a starter, perhaps Cole.
He’s getting significantly more than 15 million a year.
More like 3/51 or 4/64
The Yankees should just let him walk and re-invest those funds into starting pitching. No Q.Q. and no extension. Chapman just might find that the market for his services is not as great and his agent and him thinks it is.
He’s a lock to turn the qualifying offer down, of course they’ll give him one.
And who takes his place that isn’t a step down?
Not giving him a QO would be the stupidest decision of the season. You’d be throwing away a free draft pick.
Don’t let the door hit ya, where the good lord split ya.
Bye Chappy. Use Britton, buy Cole.
Britton? My lord if that’s the sign of things to come the Yanks are in deep crap.
Learn the game research the numbers.
$15million for 57 innings? Let him walk
This is somewhat compelling. But they are all extremely important high-leverage innings that a good expensive starter that you invested in instead cannot pitch.
That’s not true. Many saves are racked up in games that aren’t all that close. For proof of this simply look at WPA for Britton and Chapman. Britton had 3 saves and Chapman had 37 but Britton beats him in WPA 1.88 to 1.26. Britton’s work putting out fires as a setup man was more valuable than Chapman’s 9th innings.
Chapman’s numbers looked good, but anyone who actually watched him play would know his stuff is on a sharp decline. What made Chapman so dangerous in years past was that 100+ mph fastball and the fact that hitters couldn’t catch up to it (and a solid slider). His fastball isn’t as dangerous anymore because of the declining velocity and the fact that hitters are slowly adjusting to increased velocity since you see more pitchers throwing 95+ on the regular. When his fastball doesn’t have that extra gas to it, hitters are sitting on his slider and adjusting for his fastball. Yeah Chapman had 37 saves, but he also blew 5 saves and worked himself into a ton of jams when he came into games. Maybe I’ll be wrong, but I think any team that gives Chapman a long term deal will end up regretting it in a year.
I agreed with what you surmised, but you lost me at ” hitters are sitting on his slider and adjusting to the fastball “. The mantra in competitive baseball is always, ” look fastball, adjust for off-speed “. If you look off-speed, it’s near impossible to hit a fastball, especially at the pro level.
Not to get too off topic I’m a diehard Red Sox fan and I felt the same way as you about Kimbrel last year when he left, I’m not sure I would give Chapman more than a third year at the same salary if I were the Yankees
What I meant to say was I felt the same as you do now last year when Kimbrell left
He’s got 86 million guaranteed and gets to play for the Yankees? How could anyone be dumb enough to leave that situation voluntarily?
He no longer has an $86M contract. He has a $30M/2 option. I agree that it is in both parties best interest to stay together, But he will easily get $50M.
Sign Brett Garbage first it’s a priority!
Usually trash players dont have a .829 OPS, 117 OPS+, and elite defense.
Post Season
Average ..196
0ps .500
Now that’s TRASH
That still doesn’t make him a trash player. If you want a solid outfielder who can play all 3 OF positions good, while providing some offensive value, you want Gardner. I’m not saying he’s on Mike Trout or Aaron Judge’s levels, but for his price and the value he brings, any team would like that.
JA Happ for Randal Grichuk. No need for Gardner, shave another $5-mil or so in Luxury tax for 2020.
I disagree he’s trash come post season and I think they Yankees could use a breath of fresh air. Time to turn over a new leaf.
if thats the garbage line then why keep Gary Sanchez?
average .129 ops .476
I mean cut bait on Sanchez. He is going to arbitration for first time this year. cut him before he actually cost you money. He is absolute garbage .. led the team in strikeouts in the playoffs. How can you even think to employ this guy. Honestly a catcher that is known for his hitting that slugs .226 in the playoffs. What nonsense is this?
Gary has upside. But if you’re looking to trade Gary I’d be willing to do that.
Chapman hopes to land in Houston so he and Osuna can form a one two punch.
*drumroll and applause*
Man, the shots just keep coming
Nothing to joke about. Ever. And don’t tell me to lighten up. Taubman didn’t take it seriously, either.
Ok, lighten up.
There’s a difference between calling out someone on what happened, and making light of what it was.
LOSER. No, speaking lightly about domestic violence, using it as a basis of levity, is just WRONG. You.Are.Wrong. I work at a domestic violence shelter. You.Are.Wrong. Find another way to express yourself. A grown-up, sensitive way.
@Mo… you just did the exact same thing referencing Bill Buckner above.
So, pot, go meet kettle…
I realize it troubles you deeply to give up such an easy, cheap insult, but you can’t use it in a joke and claim it’s appropriate. You’re a small person.
No, Bill Buckner was not involved in domestic violence, rape, etc. He was the object of a fandom with no sense of proportion and a zero emotional IQ. I didn’t make fun of him. He didn’t commit a bad act. I didn’t refer to that bad act to insult him. I pointed out how tragic you are. Ergo ipso fatso, entirely different.
Houston can’t keep signing or trading for guys like Chapman/Osuna…
They’d run out of Execs!
Like you, Taubman didn’t take it seriously. Get it?
It’s like a pun by this point. The lowest form of humor, engaged in by those of lesser skill.
I would like to see the Mets sign Chapman but know that it would never happen. I feel that a Diaz/Chapman combo would be phenomenal. I could also see the Red Sox signing Chapman because frankly they don’t have one.
Diaz sucked this past year but it’s too soon to give up on him at his age.
I agree, I wouldn’t give up on him either but signing Chapman as insurance is not a bad idea. I wonder if the Mets could pair Familia’s contract with like JD Davis in a trade to dump some salary.
The Red Sox need to dramatically decrease payroll. They may have to let JD walk and trade their cornerstone player in Mookie Betts. No chance they sign Chapman. None.
Multiple teams would be willing to give him 4/$55m, which means someone will outbid and he will make get more than that.
4/$55MM is a non-starter for Chapman. He’s looking 3/$52.
Let him opt out! Hard to find left handed arms like his but I could care less if he walks
He scares the he’ll out of me every time he comes in!
Put that money your saving into Betances and another bullpen arm.
Dodgers please sign this man so we can finally have a lock down bullpen in October
He really locked down that ALCS. Jansen and Chapman would be as high-paid as they are volatile. But, you can’t take it with you…
Please no. That is way too much dedicated to two relievers, then you add in Joe Kelly. No way Chapman should opt out. He could potentially get another year or two beyond two years but at well below $15mm/per year. Seems like this is all posturing to try to get more from the Yankees.
I would be ok with tacking on 1 more year. Anything more than that I think will be trouble. Yankees are already north of 200M for next year and even without Chapman their bullpen is one of the better units around the league. Since I like Hal was the product of a torrid affair with the mailman finances are indeed an issue nowadays.
Think
Come reunite with Joe Girardi and Bryan Price
Let Chapman walk and use the money on Cole
Please let him opt out, Cashman! As others have posted, this guy is no lock at closing games. His velocity has dipped a bit and he’s constantly behind the count on hitters ( as evidenced by his 4 BB/9 ). Save his $ for a starter. Yanks have plenty of power bullpen arms to fill the void. I especially like Loaisiga.
That said, the QO is going to be a huge argument during the next CBA. I know they’ve adjusted it a bit, but it gives teams a lot of leverage against a player who has rejected one due to the draft pick attached to his signing. Chapman better think long and hard about opting out, or he might find himself in a Keuchel/Kimbrel situation.
Loaisiga???!!
I thought for some reason if a player opted out of a deal it meant a qualifying offer could not be made, or does that have to be written into a contract?
Regardless, The biggest difference between Kimbrel and Chapman is Kimbrel looked wild in his last 3 months in Boston. He made games far more exciting than a closer should. Add that to all his previous problems and teams had to be wary of committing so much. Chapman while having a few blips in July looked thoroughly dominate again in August. I’d say he gets a third year but not with the yankees.
Give one more year at the same rate and go after another elite reliever as well. It’s win now time. No time for bs.
Grinning while you’re giving up a walk off series ender usually doesn’t translate into a bigger deal. But what do I know?
Only in Boston does one play end a player’s life.
No the frustrating slam against six fans is uncalled for, really. That was a brief period 30yrs ago. You don’t see the Redsox fans talk about the never ending NYY CHOKES in these decades? You need to give poor Buckner, who came to terms with Redsox Nation long ago.
It lasted for decades. Liar.
Boston certainly destroyed Buckner’s life, and leading up to 2004 it was a Boston pity-party constantly. Almost to the point both Chicago teams felt bad and didn’t know why they felt that way. Not sure if Boston would have given Buckner a nice reception had he returned with the drought intact.
Chapman would be doing the Yankees a favor by opting out. They’d have a legitimate look at Cole and then some. And if the Yankees win the World Series in 2020 with Gerrit Cole they should send Chapman a championship ring as a thank you.
Incredibly suspicious!
Guys who put money ahead of performance get money. Guys who put performance ahead of money get performance.
Aroldis is holding up pretty nicely for his age but things changed these days. Everyone can throw 100s and hitters can still hit them. It’s rather be few miles less w border line control would be better as a closer..
What you said!
As Hank Aaron (and a thousand others) famously said – “Hitting is all about timing”.
Throwing 4-5 MPH over most other pitchers initially presented a problem for batters. But as teams are now incorporating concepts to get their pitchers to throw harder, batters are now seeing quite a bit of high velocity pitches. They get used to it and modify their timing.
It’s the break more then the speed that matters. What sort of brake, and when it happens – i.e. just as the ball approaches/hits the the plate).
Location. Movement. Velocity. In that order since baseball was invented. Nothing will ever change that.
And having arm padding Aaron didn’t have in his day. He could have hit over 800 bombs if he did.
Let him leave! He’s done when he come in the ninth inning he’s always gets in trouble can’t trust him you need to be win by 3 runs in the ninth with that guy….
He’s flat out not worth the money he is going to get.
As was proved in the recent playoffs……
Starters can be used for an inning out of the bullpen. Yankees need relief pitching depth during the season to get in the playoffs. They have enough now to move Britton to closer and then move Kahnle, Ottavino, Green, Cessa and others up one step in their set-up roles. Unless something totally unexpected happens, they should make the playoffs in 2020.
The Yankees did the right thing (which I’ve been advocating here for almost 2 years) by firing their pitching coach and revamping their pitching philosophy that is being taught throughout the organization. Their current starters can be made better, and the money Chapman wants would be far better off being used to bring in another starter….which doesn’t have to be Cole.
“As was proved in the recent playoffs”
One play does not define a career, except in Boston.
“bring in another starter….which doesn’t have to be Cole.”
Yes, just go get us another #2 or #3, that’ll do.
One play?
It’s a pity that Yankee fans don’t understand the game as it’s played on the field. Every solution is spend more money for a name player.
The 2019 Yankees were very close to making the WS, in spite of the fact that they had more injuries to key people then I can remember a contender having in at least the last 30-40 years.
The problem was the starting pitching….not the starting pitchers. Sounds funny? No. The pattern for the last 2-3 years is that the Yankees pay to bring in veteran starters. They might pitch good – even extremely good – for a few months. Then they go south. Sonny Gray going to Cincinnati and Lance Lynn going to Texas was the validation. “They had trouble pitching in New York”? Silly media narrative. They had trouble throwing the pitches the Yankees wanted them to throw, instead of throwing their good stuff. The Yankees tried to make their starters into relievers – throwing mainly power pitches and minimizing the types of pitches they threw. Starters have to have more variety to keep hitters off balance. That’s why they get hit by the 3rd time through the line-up….sometimes 2nd time through.
Squaring away their approach to pitching and getting a new pitching coach is far more important then throwing $300m at one pitcher – that will start 33-36 games out of a 162 game schedule. They need to get the rest of the rotation up to speed.
They didn’t throw $300m at Machado or Harper last off-season – and they’re far better for it.
You keep talking about that one play in the postseason, so I can only assume you are obsessed with hanging that around his neck.
I’m not saying they should throw $300M at Cole. Not even $240MM. What I am saying is they are full-up with #2 and #3 pitchers; just getting another one will not beat Cole in the postseason.
The Yankees brand is WIN WS NOW, WIN WS OFTEN. Since the 20s only the 80s and THIS DECADE have they not won at least two WS. Even after two decades of almost entirely failure, I don’t see Hal/Cash taking that memo seriously this offseason. I see them taking the tax alot more seriously. And Yankees fans, who are the entire reason it is the highest valued sports franchise on the planet (along with the cowboys), deserve ownership and management who take the brand and their loyalty to it seriously. Fat chance.
Cowboys 2019 value 5 Billion
Yankees 2019 value 4.6 Billion..Forbes.
The Yankees are coming across as just for profit to a lot of fans.
@mo4ever- they are many here who support Hal and Cash and will argue with you to the death even though you present the only math and stats that count. Don’t forget their annual revenue of 700 Million… They actually spend less on payroll as a % of overall revenue than every other team.
But honestly, the should be able to win a WS on with a 220 Mil payroll. which is why I blame cash. That genius build the team backwards. Homer or bust bats first, strong pen second, and then the SP. It’s pathetic. They need to change their approach ASAP.
Think about it- against Houston we had 2 players (stanton and els) hurt making 45 plus mil this year play in one combined game…. No wonder, we said “Houston we have a problem”.
“…..we had 2 players (stanton and els) hurt making 45 plus mil this year play in one combined game….
Yes, so give Cole $33-37m a year for 5-8 years, and tell us what happens when he get hurt.
“You keep talking about that one play in the postseason….”
@Mo4ever;
Where in the post you’re responding to do I do that?
I’m discussing the way Yankee pitching is being taught and implemented, and discussing how they use their entire staff.
It’s such a life and death situation IQIS.
Not.
The Astros were a bit better this year. Get over it.
Look at the Sox considering selling Betts and others to recover from dumb long term expensive starter deals.
Hey are you going to return under the Geeson name?
What a fool.
What are the odds Cincinnati signs Chapman, Grandal & Gregorious?
Greater than 0%. That’s a lot of commitments for players over 30. Didi will be 30 in Feb ’20. Even the Reds should know this.
Apparently someone didn’t notice that the oldest team in the league just won the World Series. This whole “wrong side of 30” insult is just flat out wrong. Young players are exciting, but you need veteran leaders to teach them to win.
Buh Bye…let him go elsewhere. Only getting older and will not be as effective over time.
Hope they…um…beat him to the punch….
not really something you should joke about and no don’t tell me to lighten up.
if I were him.. I’d accept the qualifying offer for 17.8 mil to get a raise… go for free agency next year for 2-3 yrs offer.. $30-45 mil
There is little risk for Chapman if he opts out since there a lot of teams who would sign him for 2 years and more than 30 million.
The Yankees would take a risk letting him go.One of the reasons the team survived(hell,thrived) an injury riddled season was their stellar bullpen and Chapman was a large part of that.
The Red Sox went from Champs to outside looking in and the only major player they lost in the off season was Kimbrel..
Relievers are an erratic group but Chapman has been consistently good.
If money is the only reason a revenue giant like the Yankees let him go,then that’s just short sighted nonsense.
Only problem with your red sox comparison is, they lost more than just kimbrel – in more ways than one.
The pen in general went south, including their high velocity set up man Kelly leaving town.
But really, to claim the loss of kimbrel was a driving force for missing the playoffs you have to assume the red sox got the same production as 2nd half reinforcements eovaldi and pearce. (And, no, they didn’t.)
It also presupposes guys like price/sale/porcello performed career averages in starts/output, but even hitters had good, but not up to previous years (jdm) or regressed significantly (benny). New emergences of devers and improvements from bogey help that some, but this was nothing but a long winded way of saying that even kimbrel, 2018 kimbrel, wasn’t going to put the red sox into the playoffs this season.
Much more was wrong then one pen arm going missing
Yes a lot more went wrong with the Sox than just losing Kimbrel,but that doesn’t alter the fact that he was the only key player from a championship team to not return and his loss should not be understated.
Not having a reliable closer affects a teams entire pitching staff and we saw ample proof of that in the way the Red Sox played last season.Kimbrel was asking for the moon but a compromise could have been hammered out.
The comparison is that another huge revenue team(the Red Sox) let a key player(a top flight closer) go for monetary reasons,when that shouldn’t even be a consideration,and the Yankees are in a spot to duplicate that very action.
Dodgers will give him 3 years since kenley stinks. I could even see angels grabbing him since they dont have a legit closer.
An option out would be good.
Still up 1000% having Gleyber linked to Chapman.
With Betances back with a live arm, Britton, Kanle, Green and ottavino, it would be a blessing to say bye to Chapman and the anxiety attacks he gives Yankees fans
Right, because they had enough arms this year with Chapman they’ll certainly have enough arms next year without him. And no way somebody goes down next year like Betances did this year. Especially not Betances. We can give all the extra innings to Cortes and Lyons. BWAHAHAHA!
If the Yankees were smart they’d finally moved Glayber Torres to SS. As he’s by far the best option they have at that spot. Move didi to 2nd or trade him for an upgrade.
Chapman is going to get a bigger guarantee than $30M. That’s the only reason he needs to opt out. It could come in an extension from the Yankees, but he’s more likely to have thrown his last pitch for them, because there’s no reason not to try for 4 years, and no reason for the Yankees to give it to him.
I’m hoping the Yankees make the QO and walk away from Chapman. They don’t need him. Sign Bettances to a much cheaper deal and go after Cole is what I would do. Chapman will find out quickly that opting out was a mistake as no team will offer him close to the AAV he was due to make with New York. Someone needs to tell some of these agents that they’re doing their clients a disservice by opting out of contracts like that. Also maybe I’m alone on this but I have a sneaking suspicion that Aroldis isn’t 32 years of age as he claims but is closer to 35 or 36. Is an additional year or two really worth taking the chance that the market’s trend downward for aging relievers isn’t true. Good luck to him but here’s hoping he takes that chance.
The upshot of all this is that the Yankees will be giving more innings to Cortes (5.67), Holder (6.31), Tarpley (6.93), and Chance Adams (8.53). And, oh, yeah, “opened some eyes” Lyons and Loaisiga, whose ERA’s (4.15, 4.55), were much better than their actual performances; as if those are good ERAs for relievers…
The Yanks will let Chapman walk with no credible plan whatsoever how to replace those 55 IP with something throwing an ERA south of 4, and more than likely they’ll replace it with an ERA north of 6. In a time when bullpen innings are growing not shrinking. At least bullpen innings should be growing when you see what’s happening to starters the third time through the order… Always a shame when Boone tries to get something for nothing by trotting out his starter in the sixth inning. Usually gets fireworks.
The players just named (Cortes (5.67), Holder (6.31), Tarpley (6.93), and Chance Adams (8.53)will very likely be gone by the start of the 2020 season.Personally I prefer Britton to Chapman and will be glad to see him opt out..We have enough quality arms to reconfigure the bullpen and the money saved on Chapman can be utilized for other needs not to mention the compensation draft pick.
I’d suggest that the Yankees want them to work with the new pitching coach for a bit before they send them away.
Rothschild was awful. Simply ruined pitchers the last 2-3 years.
Rothschild is awful. It’s not pastense. He was awful for the cubs too
The Orioles dropped Britton as their closer years ago. Now you want the team jockeying to be the top franchise on the planet to go with him…? In what other ways are you planning to gamble the Series…again? As if they haven’t already gone 1 for 19 gambling away series after series on similar moves?
@Mo4ever;
What planet are you on?
The Orioles dropped Britton as their closer when he was going through injuries.
At the time the Yankees traded for him, Britton WAS the Orioles closer, and he was lights out! And he’s being paid as a closer.
Sorry, but you have some real problems with reading comprehension and facts.
Britton was not “dropped” by the Orioles. He sufered a serious injury from which he only recently has recovered. Take a look at his stats. He had possibly the greatest season in history prior to the injury.4 earned runs in 67 games with 47 saves.An ERA of 0.54.He doesn’t walk batters like Chapman or have the number of wild pitches , blown saves and periodic lapses finding the strike zone that are Chapmans trademark. Add to that his lack of judgement and immaturity. Chapman is overrated ,overpaid and in decline. It is time to move on. There are other needs to focus on.
Chap has been good on and off the field. The altuve incident withstanding, he has been part of the solution not the problem But hey they fired rothchild to take that fall.
Yanks should bring him back but not at all costs if it impedes landing good to great SP (who typically throw 160 plus IP per year). My guess is Cash overpays and overextends as he continues to double down on the pen. lets see.
@ Vandals Took The Handles ” I’d suggest that the Yankees want them to work with the new pitching coach for a bit before they send them away.”
That is a useful comment. I didn’t mean to imply that they were worthless, what I was trying to suggest is that The Yankees currently have a wealth of good arms in the farm system and could also augment their bullpen with an arm or two from another organization if necessary. There is no shortage of trade chips or cash for such a move.All the more so if they can shed the Chapman contract and receive a compensatory pick. As you point out, the next pitching coach will undoubtedly see things differently regarding the entire pitching staff.
I can’t imagine anyone giving Chapman the moon, so as has been previously stated, only at a reasonable price. I also wouldn’t consider him the lockdown, absolute closer that he once was. I’d have a plan 1A at the ready for the start of the season.
Yankees have a much bigger need for starting pitching. They need to add at least 2. Signing Chapman is not a priority. Chapman will get more than $30 million guaranteed, but will get a large drop in AAV. 3/40 or 4/48? Especially if the Yankees place a QO on him.
Well this aged well.
Come on. This guy wants to leave to go try and get 1 more year. How about do good next 2 years and earn another year like Mariano did!!!!
All joking aside if the Yankees are going to wanna win a WS this is what needs to be done.
If the Yankees are thinking about adding a # 4th or 5th starter it’s not going to make them any better.
The Yankees won 100 games. This team is built to win now. The only thing and I repear the only thing that will put them over the top is a legit ace! The best ace In baseball is available right now for cash! The top of the rotation needs to be fixed and it needs to be fixed with an ACE! Not going after Cole or just floating around wasting time blowing their normal smoke and mirrors is just going to make them lose again.
I’m sorry if some of you disagree but Brett Gardner is not a priority nor should he even be thought about. This team keeps doing the same thing and get the same resutls one and done! I mean hows long has it been 10 years? Seriously guys all joke aside time to turn over a new leaf. Corbin should have been a Yankee period and they will make the same with Cole too
Go out there and get a legit Ace and get a lead off hitter for crying out loud!
The only thing and I REPEAT the only thing is for you to get off the Brett Gardner complaint.
Really Beans—come on, who would have played all those games in center and left if he wasn’t in the team this year? At some
point the “next man up” would have produced a real dud. Gardner had a better slugging % than the guys that you whines about last year as must haves: Harper and Machado.
So grow up and concentrate on what matters.
You can reply to this post with the following statement:
“Ok I will stop complaining about Gardner”.
And we all know that his salary is not in the way of landing a #1 starter.
Yankees cannot go with Brett Gardner for another full season until Hicks comes back they just can’t. Don’t get me wrong he has a good season but he goes blank in the playoffs. Also while we’re on the same topic and you wanna talk what matters. The Yankee do not have a leader off hitter so I’m thinking go out and get someone who can cover CF and also hit in the lead off spot. DJ is better suited for the #3 slot.
Not only does this make your lineup longer you actually get a lead off hitter something the Yankees have been missing and you get Gardner outta the lineup every day. Cuz come post season we all know what happens. Getting Gardner off your team and getting a lead off hitter makes them that much better.
It’s time to turn over a new leaf Yankees have not won in what now 1o years? You actually don’t think Gardner is hurting them in the playoffs? He batted 3rd for crying out loud and that killed them A solid #1 hitter and a top of the line starter will do them much much better. How you could disagree with this I dunno maybe you want the same results.
1. who…
2. Judge
3. DJ
4 Stanton
etc etc
The most impactful thing the Yankees could do to improve their chances is figure out some creative way to unload Stanton. This guy is an albatross around our necks! We have too many RH bats, Stanton brings NOTHING to the table except occasional power.He can’t field,he can’t run, he can’t hit with runners in scoring position and he is incredibly injury prone! We are saddled with him for 8 more years! If it means assuming half of his salary and sending away a prospect or two, DO IT ! It is hard to fathom how the analytics dept. approved this acquisition particularly in view of the Ellsbury deal which still hurts. At least Ellsbury could run and field well at the beginning of that deal. Substantial $$$ could be freed up to help in other areas of need and we could have an outfield with more athleticism and one less roster spot wasted on the injured list.
Here’s how you move Stanton.
He wants to play RF and only would be willing to waive no trade for the Dodgers.
He’s owed 200 plus mill for 8 years.
3 team trade.
Yanks send Stanton and 35 mill to Dodgers. Yanks send Florial a top positional prospect abs Abreu a top pitching prospect to Cleveland.
Cleveland sends Lindor to Dodgers.
Dodgers send Lux and another high end positional prospect to Cleveland. Dodgers send May to Yankees.
So ultimately Yankees sending Stanton and money and two high end prospects and getting a high end pitching prospect to plug right into rotation.
This will free up money and now they can go sign an Cole or Strasburg or Madbum and also it opens up DH to Sanchez, Andujar, and Frazier.
Thoughts????
Adding Stanton and Lindor’s salary, at minus $35-mil over 8 years, is too much money to carry with the current LA team. If they entertained that idea they’d need to shave some money elsewhere. The bullpen would not be addressed either. Makes no sense for the Dodgers to acquire Stanton.
Angels would be a more suitable spot for Stanton. He can DH once Pujols is done. Trade option 1 is Justin Upton. Trade option 2 is Simmons and Cozart.
Would also be wise for the Yankees to start feeding Stanton ground balls and teaching him to play 1B, starting today. If he can handle the position he can play 1B against lefties and give the team flexibility. Voit or Ford can start at 1B against RH with Voit playing every day if he hits.
3 years, $45MM. Otherwise, no thanks. I’d rather give a qualifying offer and wish him luck.
Think the Yankees just say “see ya!” after Jose Altuve made Chapman his son a couple of weeks ago.
Altuve made him his Bia bia
The Yankees will pay him 4 years about $60 million maybe even 5 for 70 the reason they lost this game not so much because of Chapman but because Boone didn’t call for Altuve to be walked like he should have. The next hitter was a nobody and Chapman would easily have got him out. The loss is on Boone.
Sounds like he wants to leave new York. I bet the Nats try to get him. They’re almost guaranteed to lose Rendon. Who I still think will go to Anaheim. as they need a 3rd baseman. they havent had much production at third since troy glaus and scott spiezio
Breaking, Jeff Passan has announced Chapman is staying! Another year with $18 MM tacked on.