A few quick items from around the game…
- Astros outfielder Josh Reddick underwent arthroscopic surgery on his left shoulder AC joint on Friday, according to a tweet from Jake Kaplan of The Athletic (link). Despite the apparently ailing shoulder, Reddick managed to appear in 151 games last season, his seventh full go-around in the majors. Reddick is expected to be ready for Spring Training, on the heels of a rather tepid 2019 that saw him hit .275/.319/.409 (94 wRC+) while grading out as a below-average regular on the whole (1.1 fWAR). After falling short in this year’s Fall Classic, it will be interesting to see what the club does with regard to Reddick. The 32-year-old is due one more season of $13MM salary before hitting free agency next offseason, so it’s not as if a trade is a likely scenario. Still, Reddick’s spot in the outfield, along with the club’s current vacancy at catcher, strikes this writer as an area of potential improvement for club president of baseball ops Jeff Luhnow to explore this winter. At the least, it will be interesting to see how Reddick’s 2020 playing time is impacted by promising in-house youngster Kyle Tucker.
- Earlier today we brought news of the Yankees’ hire of Rachel Balkovec, 32, to a minor league hitting coach role. According to Jordan Bastian of MLB.com, it appears the Cubs have also hired a 32-year-old Rachel with an impressive resume to their player development corps, with Bastian relaying that Marshall alum Rachel Folden will now serve as the lead hitting lab tech and fourth coach for Chicago’s Rookie League Mesa affiliate (link). Folden comes to the Cubs with experience instructing baseball and softball players “based on biomechanics, science, technology and data” via her own fastpitch instructional enterprise. Folden’s primary connection to the Cubs comes through Justin Stone, Chicago’s new director of hitting, who previously deployed Folden as a hitting consultant at his own Elite Baseball Training academy. Stone, commenting on her hire, described Folden as the “perfect person” to cross the implicit barriers that have long sidelined professionals like Balkovec and Folden.
- Earlier this winter, Red Sox team president and CEO Sam Kennedy said his club would “continue to engage” with the representatives of outfielder Mookie Betts in regard to extension talks, but Kennedy allowed on Friday that those talks have yet to begin, as noted in an article from Chris Cotillo of MassLive.com (link). While new chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom and GM Brian O’Halloran met with Betts’ reps from VC Sports during the GM Meetings last week, those talks are said to have been of a mostly informal nature. Kennedy had reiterated his desire to keep Betts in a Red Sox uniform several times this offseason, and it’s hardly unexpected that Bloom may still be getting a handle on the broadest aspects of his new role. Betts is projected to make $27.7MM this offseason in his final pass through arbitration and has long proclaimed a desire to test free agency.
- MLB attendance slipped 1.5 percent in 2019, adding to a cumulative 8.5 percent drop dating back to 2012. Joe Sheehan of Baseball America places much of the blame for this attendance swoon at the doorstep of the “rebuilding processes that are leading to unwatchable baseball”. As Sheehan notes, the Phillies, Twins, Reds, and Padres all saw attendance increases after making a few impact additions last offseason, while even winning teams like the Indians saw fewer passes through the turnstiles after largely standing pat in the winter of 2018-2019. Of course, it’s also worth noting, by my own addition, that several of the teams flagging in the attendance category also operate in some of the smallest and least economically flourishing metropolitan markets (although aspects of revenue sharing, of course, help to mitigate those factors).
Perhaps the Redsox know it’s a lost cause to try n sign Mookie cuz every chance he has he talks about being a FA!
Maybe
I’m sure Theo Epstein has already had secret talks with Mookie. He’ll end up signing with the Cubs.
I don’t see it.
There are no secret talks going on Mr. Conspiracy theory.
Lol
Astros Cheated
Epstein didn’t kill himself.
Astros cheated Epstein out of killing himself.
Love it
I laughed out. Astros turned the cameras off.
So does your team
Prove it.
LOL I love it.
I say just let Betts ride out one more season. Best case scenario he eventually resigns, worst case they deal him at deadline or collect draft picks via qualifying offer.
Without getting below the cbt you’re talking a lofty 4th round pick…
I think you have stumbled upon why the Red Sox want to get below the CBT.
They can get more for Mookie with a QO after 2020 if they are below the CBT.
Assuming they can’t unload Mookie before the end of 2020.
The issue is Mookie thinks he can get a Trout contract.
Maybe he will.
But the Red Sox are signaling it won’t be from them.
He won’t get a Trout contract. But he’ll get one of the top contracts of all time.
I hope IF the Bosox pull the trigger on a Betts trade the press conference goes something like “Today the Boston Red Sox traded Mookie Betts and David Price to the Los Angeles Dodgers for ‘a farm system refill.’
Won’t get that kind of return if they package Betts with Price. It would have to be a salary dump at that point.
I would trade him to the NL—a haul of three strong MiL prospects one being a top of the rotation possibility. Trade him ASAP in case he gets hurt and can’t be traded at the deadline. Getting rid of two very good players-saving $60 M this year and getting some good prospects. Do it soon.
No big prospect haul for one year of Betts and all the money owed to Price!
his stats out of boston is that of a good player not a great one.
This is a joke, and I am missing it? He is a gold glove, MVP candidate, all star who has averaged nearly 6 WAR per year since coming up. He is one of the games best right now.
He is easily one of the top 5 players
I was hopiing it would say “Mookie Betts and David Price to the Dodgers for a farm system”.
Nope. Best to trade Mookie now, add to the farm, drop below the CBT threshold for one year to reset their penalties and then make a sincere attempt to bring him back next offseason.
At this point, Mookie best value will be at the deadline dealing with a team ready to make a World Series run. They may get a prospect back in that scenario for team in “win now” mode.
No, they aren’t going to get a better return at the deadline when the acquiring team is only getting him for 2 months as opposed to a full season and can’t QO him.
You don’t deal Mookie Betts unless you are out of playoff contention. Extend him for life.
For the love of god and for the last time, he is not signing an extension. He is determined to engage in an FA bidding war and who can blame him?
Anyone wanna take bets on what Betts is gonna do? I bet Betts is gonna leave. You can bet on that.
Bet bet bet bettie bet bet betts
No one’s trading anything of value for Betts next year—wouldn’t make much sense. A couple mid-level prospects is a realistic this current offseason. The Red Sox are immensely greedy, so they won’t pull the trigger. Betts will play out his contract and leave.
Betts is in his prime and 1 year away from becoming very wealthy. Why would he resign and give all that up? Maybe the Sox should try to re-sign him instead, at the very least they should trade him now or wait and get a draft pick for him when he turns down their QO.
He’s already very wealthy by most standards,
Yeah but not as much as $300MM yet,
Jay’s had the most fans lost at over 550k. Shatkins are awful its put up or get canned.
How’s that possible? Seriously, because every jays simpleton told everyone who would listen that Vlad jr would put butts in seats as if it mattered whatsoever.
Toronto baseball fans come out for winning teams.
I mean, most fans do, right? You can pretty much pick out any seat you want at Comerica. That wasn’t the case just a handful of years back when the Tigers were winning.
The number one reason for the continued drop in attendance is the cost of seeing a game. Ticket prices continue to climb, food, parking ect.. Baseball is becoming to pricey for the average fan. Greed by the owners and players is killing the sport.
Nope. Same as other sports.
Each team in MLB has twice as many home games than any other sport..not as many fans can afford to go to twice as many games as they do in any other sport. It does cost too much in MLB to fill each stadium that many times.
For decent seats for my family of four it costs 225 with fees. Then 25 for parking. 100 for food and drink. 350 for 1 game. My car payment is 400.
And then the owner says he can’t afford Francisco Lindor so enjoy the prospects.
Agreed. With budget big screen sets costing the same, the choice for many is obvious. Why would most pay that kind of money outside of a once in a lifetime experience? The cost is also the same as my monthly cable (yes I have cable), Internet, home telephone and family cell phone bill.
Baseball is fairly cheap. Teams have focused on spenders in the park not numbers.
Cheap? By what standard? Someone making $500K a year?
Exactly this.
I use to have mini-season ticket plans for Dodgers stadium, which changed to about 15-20 games. I now barely go to 2-3 games with the family.
Most of the fans who cannot or will not pay fir the high ticket prices stopped attending years ago, so that’s not the reason for the dip in attendance. Unwatchable baseball is. Too many teams with bad to average rosters, and no hope of winning drives fans away in every sport. You need a mix of star talent and a solid roster that’s worth watching for most sane people. Owners need to spend more or get out of the business.
The game itself has become mostly unwatchable. As a Sox fan, 2018 aside, I personally watch less and less each year. 2018 was old school With stealing more than ever and using the hit and run, the season was exciting to watch unfold. Winning early and continuing to do so had a snowball effect that culminated with Bennie’s big catch against Houston, Moreland’s pinch hit blast and the team having another duck boat celebration. The Yankees seemed to have that magic last year but it ended in misery in October. Other than a year like that however, fans have a short attention span with so many alternative options. The beauty of baseball had always also been the story telling done during lull times. Today with the so many pitching changes commercials have replaced the stories and the game is so often just unwatchable or listenable.
Shake that fist at the sky!
Didn’t help.
Too many teams are tanking for better draft picks…
Unless you want to watch a stagnant .500 team every year, tanking is the only way to get better players for 85% of the teams. I’m glad attendance is down. It tell the MLB their product sucks. Either change it, or I’ll find entertainment elsewhere.
These attendance and-Gross earning numbers are tainted! The Owners will not let anyone see the books on actual profits with MLB teams. No =one but the majority owners know the actual attendance, gross earnings and final cable-internet monetary deals.
I feel like these teams can turn profits into losses pretty easy with some nifty book keeping honestly.
True JD but a loss of fannies in the seats still amounts to a loss in revenue that has to be made up elsewhere.
I guess the point matt4baseball was making is that we don’t really know what the attendance numbers are since we have to trust the owners, we can’t see the books themselves, even though we’re the ones granting them the anti-trust exemption to run monopolies in our cities (that last bit I added).
Exactly! Unless the team is a Publicly traded company (I know 1 team is in league) they would never share their secrets with anyone. NDA signed by employees and the $ coming in has to be good or all these new stadiums won’t be built- even with partial public funding. These owners are so smart and have best attorneys, financial experts…ect they get the Cities to help pay for THEIR stadium sing loop holes and lies about “redevelopment for the people”. Haha. The Steinbrenner’s did not care much (I think they care but, they are not mother Theresa) for fans when they build new stadium. Even though for years it was miserable every time U needed to use bathroom. You will miss 1 inning min waiting in long lines and the hour to get OUT of parking lots, private lots triple parking cars so u get stuck in back of packed fenced in area waiting for all cars to leave. #1,2,3,4,5?6?7?8 I 10 reasons were $.
Attendance down? Look at the years and look at how many more kids get smart phones per year? Since 2012 it’s skyrocketed to even my 74yo mother having a IPhone (can barely use it but, loves to text). People are addicted to screens and with 24/7 sports news and video posted everywhere of game plays you can follow a game while out with friends on phone. I wonder if Sports bars are losing customers. For 13 years during football season me and 5-10+ friends would go to same spot to drunk, eat wings and watch MNF. Place was packed. By 2008 I stopped going as I moved and couldn’t make it, I went back recently and place is still there, in good shape wings still great but, the packed room is now empty. Whenever we talk about people not participating in ANYTHING our devices share some if not all the blame.
Did the Braves need a new park? Wasn’t the last one fairly new? And they still can’t sell tickets like big markets with there great History. And tickets to previous stadium were not very high as friends told me. Why? A dollar goes longer in smaller cities then NY, LA, Boston, Chicago.
If you are patient and can use Internet you can find good ticket prices online for Yankee games. The $40 parking sucks but, you don’t have to drink 5x $12 beers or buy a $15 restaurant style pulled pork sandwich. They let you bring food and water in.
Isn’t NBA and NFL more expensive ticket wise?
Baseball is losing fans because it’s become a boring show of home runs or strike outs.
yep
Why go to the stadium when a family can buy their kids MLB4k2020 or whatever and the kids can actually play the same game?
Yep
Nick Madrigal is going to save baseball. Don’t worry.
It doesn’t help that teams view players as increasingly expendable. It’s getting harder and harder to be excited about a team when the moment you get attached to a guy he gets traded or leaves in free agency.
It’s a lot of fans too. Teams get bashed by plenty of fans if they extend a loyal player who is even a year past his twenties and who has been there his entire career for making “stupid moves”. I agree with your thoughts, it makes supporting a team a lot harder if it’s a revolving door at the major league level.
Where are players becoming revolving doors? TB? Miami?
With the way the contracts are set up the teams get 6-7 years of control. Even if the small market teams deal guys away before they get prohibitively expensive it’s usually 5 seasons. I mean An NFL roster turns over about 5x as fast and that doesn’t seem to be an issue.
It’s because they live in a alternate universe where they think their team has a shot every year despite the Patriots making it to the super bowl nearly every year.
You shouldn’t compare sports. Part of baseball’s beauty had been its number of games. Mostly every day for six months. Much different than weekly. Also with the minors, you often start hearing about a particular guy well in advance of when he makes his debut. The anticipation builds. Add in the fact that every non pitcher bats and fields. A football team drafts an interior lineman and there are no stats to get excited about. Rooting for Yaz, Rice and Evans was also a bond with my dad. It was easier to talk about how we expected the team to perform when it didn’t turn over so much. If it weren’t for stupidity, the team was built to last and would have stayed together. Lynn talks about how he shouldn’t have left and there is no way Fisk and Burleson should have left.
deweybelongs…
I agree
Hopefully. If he gets in with the veterans committee this time around, I already have my new name planned, “Luisbelongsintgehall”.
Or maybe Loooiebelongsintgehall,,,
Why do you need to be attached to a player. Players are expandable. Every single one of them. The excitement of the team has no bearing on if your favourite player who probably makes too much money needs to be traded before he reaches free agency.
Reality is even if there was a salary cap and your favourite player wanted to stay on your favourite small market team, he’d probably choose not too. That’s the reality.
Your cynicism might work for you but it doesn’t for a lot of people.
There are very few reasons to be a fan of any team in any sport. One of those few reasons is that you like the players; you cheer for their successes and lament their failures. A lot of fans don’t visit sites like MLBTradeRumors and don’t know or care about a player’s contract. They just want to see familiar players and enjoy a day at the park.
And when you have a team like, say, the A’s, that rarely values their players and makes it very difficult for fans to know a guy longer than a season or two, it makes it real easy for them to hardly value their local team and decide to do something else with their time and money.
I’d say the A’s do value their players, maybe more than the average team. It’s just that they don’t have the payroll and they truely don’t have a choice. If they could sign those great players to market value like sox and dodgers per say, they would. They just simply can’t afford it.
Why is the Oakland payroll so radically different from SF? I know SF people who root for the A’s. Surely people from Berkeley and San Jose root for A’s. I can understand some difference, by why so radical? I find it puzzling, like the Cubs and ChiSox.
The stadium draws. Also just the City of SF money vs. Oakland money. Also, the Giants were in the Bay Area first and therefore had fan interest first. Different in football where prior to the Raiders first moving to LA, they were equal to the 49ers. Maybe even #1 in the area. I lived there only one year and since they won it all that year (1981 Super Bowl I believe), it may not be a fair comparison I’m giving. people of the East Bay can chime in.
Since the TANKING and banking the proceeds phase started.. teams have seen a drop off because they aren’t putting the best product on the field that those government subsidized stadiums could afford.. Until the league enforces they must do everything to win every games { mlb rule ( 21(a or is it c)} expect fans to find better ways to spend their money than watch 3rd rate baseball .. better to go watch independent leagues where available.. more baseball for the buck..
So, how should the ‘do everything to win’ rule be enforced?
Penalize teams for being 6 or more games out of first?
make them spend those taxes payer generated dollars instead of making Billions and lying to the public about those stadiums they need.. They know the real financial situation of every team.. make them spend to the best of their ability like the rule says.. Player must do to the best of their abilities..
there is a simple solution. just tax teams that go below lower payroll threshold just like they tax teams that go over the higher threshold.
Interesting.
Would get the support of MLBPA.
Force them to open their books. Require them to allocate a minimum of say 50-55% to payroll. Cap their ticket prices, by market, so people can afford to see the games. If the public is going to grant anti-trust exemptions, they ought to get a good product they can afford to see.
California Halos your observation is spot on. Just like all these rediculous stunts of speeding the game up, shorten the between innings time and go to a split screen for commercials.
Split screen for commercials is the thin edge of the wedge. Sadly this is the future of live sports broadcasting.
I would pay a premium to see commercials replaced by recaps of action from around the league.
Oh, and get rid of Manfraud!
bring back the message board!
It is imperative that the Astros trade either Kyle Tucker or Josh Reddick this offseason.
Reddick yes, Tucker no. All 3 starting OF’s are free agents after 2020 so they need Tucker.
I said or not and. I agree that Reddick is the one they should trade but they have to trade one of them.
Utilize Epstein’s man-crush on Reddick and deal him to the Cubs. It will continue the model he had with Sox. Great quick building of a champ, but longevity and FA signings that work out…notsomuch.
Tanking plus TTO make for very boring baseball.
Add in a juiced ball and it just becomes a farce.
Offer betts 8 years 250. Take it or leave it
Guys like Bloom wont do smart things like that. The guys from Tampa where being cheap is king. Boston will do the wrong thing- they wont be a 250MM payroll.
Gonna take at least $50m more just for a start.
Probably but it shouldn’t, As with Harper and Machado, it won’t be a good deal long term, and $300MM will be a long term deal.
Why post a ridiculous offer like $250 million and 8 years? He has said over and over that he is going to be a free agent. It would take at least $350 million and 10 years to sign Betts this off-season and I’m not even 100% sure that he would accept that.
“MLB attendance slipped 1.5 percent in 2019, adding to a cumulative 8.5 percent drop dating back to 2012”.
So you mean all these home runs isnt the solution to an over all flagging attendance issue?
I haven’t read a single word from the Boston FO about interest in trading Betts. Only their desire to keep him in uniform. All this speculation about a trade looks like a set up for dissapointment.
I think the simple explanation is that it is too easy to watch a game at home for no cost while seeing what is actually happening as opposed to paying 50 bucks to sit in nose bleeds. The owners have simply become to greedy.
Attendance is down across the board for many reasons, none of which has anything to do with severe teardowns/rebuilds.
1. Ticket, parking and concession prices at many venues is ridiculous. Not to mention, most stadiums are a nightmare to arrive and leave from on game night.
2. In the same vein as reason 1, it’s a lot more enjoyable sitting at home watching a game on a high definition television with multiple angles and replays. Most people can’t afford the ” good ” seats at any given ballpark and wind up sitting what seems like a mile from the field. Combined with the expense, it’s just not worth it.
3. The main problem with baseball and declining attendance/interest is the sterilization of the game by the sabr crowd. Games have become a slog of walks, HRs and K’s. Shifts have eliminated a lot of the thrilling defensive plays that used to be seen on a nightly basis and replaced them with infielders making awkward throws because they’re fielding balls in strange spots they’re not used to playing.
All for what, to save an average of 1 or 2 hits per week? Especially nauseating is the 2nd baseman playing 40 ft in front of the RFer and stealing hits on balls that are rocketed at 100+ mph.
Millennials, bring on the attacks, but you’ve never seen guys like Boggs, Mattingly and Gwynn smacking balls to all fields and fighting to the last not to be struck out. Or Ozzie Smith diving for a ball smoked up the middle, snagging it and then just beating the runner at 1st.
Today’s game is watered down and booooooring. Anyone that thinks MLB should keep expanding is dead wrong. I understand the players association would fight it to the death, but the league should contract, not expand. Too many players in today’s game that don’t belong. Sabr has been created to try and justify why guys hitting under .200 and pitchers with 5 ERA’s belong in MLB. They don’t.
Most telling about sabr ridiculousness these days are comments from many of the presumably younger demographic on this site claiming Derek Jeter isn’t a HOFer and that his 3,465 hits mean nothing. That walks have become the end-all and be-all regarding whether a player is excellent or just average is completely laughable. And don’t even get me started on defensive sabermetrics.
Don’t throw it all on millennials. There’s plenty of old f***s whining about not changing the game. Though they don’t seem to realize the game has changed.
It’s not fair to throw every issue on millennials, but I am also a millennial, and I believe the game has changed for the worse.
Of course I’m generalizing, but I’ve been called an ” old man shouting at a cloud ” a million times on this site, so I was referring to my experience. And I’m not even that old! Lol
I totally agree with you! You have pitchers that toss an era above 4 and getting paid $20mil yearly! Whining punks that hit the IL more in one season than a player used to in a career! You’ll never see another Ripken Jr who went out and played every game, injured, sick, whatever! Pitchers like Ryan, Palmer, and numerous more pitching complete games and getting 25-30 wins a season with a sub 3 era, even with juicing hitters! Now you never see a player play every game during a season! Pitchers throw 3-4 innings a week and make $30mil? Geez, during those 3-4 innings they throw garbage 100 mph pitches with no movement and wonder why hitters are smacking the ball 500 feet! Hell, if these punks playing now hit like they did just 20 years ago, you’d see all these balls flying 600+feet! Reggie Jackson would probably hit it 700feet! All these sabermetrics and bull rap numbers to cover up for “hitters” with a .245 batting average, .240 obp and 45% strike out rate is a complicated way to cover the fact that none of these clowns have a clue how to properly play the game. It’s not about obp, moving runners, situational hitting, or god forbid sacrifice flys like the old days. It’s all about doubles, triples, homers all while striking out twice as much as your batting average! Back when I played, these were called all or nothing hitters! They rode the bench until you needed a bat off the bench that had that effect. It was either, strike out, pop up, or homerun because the whole of the game they couldn’t grasp.
most players get injured working for the companies.
Nope. It’s not ticket prices. Those people left a decade ago.
Consumers have way more options than past generations for entertainment. If your team is garbage, the fans will not show up. If your owner constantly sells off the team’s best players and refuses to spend money, the fans won’t show up. It’s about the product, not the price.
There are plenty of new people coming along who think they might like to see a ballgame, check out the prices and say “no thanks.” It’s not a dead, historical problem only.
first, one of the problems , You have Miami, Tampa bay, Oakland who have good teams but they have no one show up at their games .The ownesr with the ticket prices and the players who want 30 million for overrated players. also you have to count that you can see games allot easier now. Also you have to consider other sports having problems with attendance even the nfl. I have seen half empty stadiums in several games this year.
This would never fly, but why can’t an MLB franchise operate out of two cities?
Each city could host half the home games. Attendance would improve because the home games for each city would be half as common. Plus the fan base could be double that of just the one-city team.
The NFL is a joke now. When you can’t hit a player in a full contact sport what’s the point in watching?
full contact sports is ufc not nfl.
Given MLB possibly is in contraction, Black Sox like cheating is unacceptable and the fan bases need some form of fairness I’d propose the following: If MLB decided that the Crane family was more of a “crime” family than not, eliminating the franchise and moving TBR to Houston makes some sense. Eliminating another franchise for stupidity, ignorance and terrible park/useless flight hours also makes some sense to balance out the schedule. I really see eliminating the worst park as the final factor.
The current Houston players are an issue. Since likely the entire 2017 team was aware of the cheating system, a blanket suspension of the active members of the 2017 team members for the current length of their contracts seems reasonable. An exception if their deposition testimony was valid, allowing Manfred to mitigate the punishment. Banning all Astros retired players who have refused to testify from all MLB activities seems easy.. Banning all management and coaches for life seems logical.
Case-by case for all Houston players from the end of the 2017 season hearings need to be done to achieve a fair result. Anyone who refuses to answer MLB interrogatories are suspended equal to the longest Houston contract in 2017.
Milb Astros teams are subjects of a special draft. MLB Astros which were suspended for the collusion in 2017 need to be part of separate draft.
I really don’t know what to do with Altuve, Bregman, and Springer – I’m leaning towards they need to join Shoeless Joe. Great players but some sad, sad losers.
If the Astros cheated on the big time gaming field, the owner, every employee and every player/coach/manager should be bankrupted.
On the other hand, only gamblers really care.
Why move a team to where they already have a team? That’s pointless! How about give the Carolinas a team? The closest we get to a home team is either Baltimore, Washington or Atlanta. I’m not driving four hours one way at least to pay $350 to watch a game. Give me a team within 2 hours driving time with a quality team on the field and I will get season passes.
Thread took a right turn to being about the Stros cheating story…go figure.
Why wouldn’t it be plausible to consider cheating (whether it’s PEDs or stealing signs) as a factor in interest in the sport/game attendance. Perfectly logical connection. I know my interest will flag if appropriate penalties aren’t levied. And I still feel that the PED problem is not being adequately addressed. The testing regime is still, I think, too player friendly. Too many players getting around it. PED use is not limited to a half-dozen scapegoats a year. It just isn’t. I say either find a way to slam the door or open PED use to everyone. Stop with the nonsense.
I think the attendance dip in Major League Baseball, and this is my opinion, is largely in part due to sabrmetrics. If the idea is to grow a fan base, you want to start with the younger generation, so you have fans for life. I have never seen a kid get excited about xWOBA, BABIP, RA9-WAR, or xFIP. No kid will get excited about anything they can’t actually see on the field. That goes for some adults, too, like myself. I’m a little tired of having new-fangled stats jammed down my throat.
I think shifting has also hurt the on field product. Shifting has led to the modern “three true outcomes” player of strikeouts, walks, and home runs. No player is looking to just make contact when there is clump of guys on one side of the infield, like a wall in soccer. I think umpires should police the player positioning much like they do with balks. If an ump can spot a balk, he can spot a player out of position. This poor on-field product will continue to dwindle the number of paying fans.
Also, Major League Baseball needs a salary floor, so middle market ownership will have to comply and put a watchable product on the diamond.
2 things will fix attendance: move both Florida franchises and institute a salary cap/floor.
Well, those will help considerably, but I wouldn’t say they’d totally fix it.
Another commenter mentioned putting a second team in Houston. I actually don’t think that would be a horrible idea. It’s a darn big city and it’s a proven baseball town. Maybe one of the FLA franchises you suggest moving should go to Houston.
I mainly buy tickets for Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox games on the secondary market online. I’ve noticed that ticket prices don’t dip down as low anymore even when it’s an hour or two prior to game start time. Many of them seemingly go unsold. As a result, I’ve gone to less games the past few years. I typically spend money on concessions because it’s part of the experience.
the in person experience just has nothing even remotely comparable to TV/media outside of maybe a pulsing, lively stadium in october. otherwise it’s not worth the money, time, or product..
Pushing Opening Day further back into March means more games played in rotten weather. Warm weather naturally doesn’t show up for a couple of months, and rainy weather helped keep crowds down in the East and Midwest almost to the beginning of summer. Yes there are unwatchable teams, and no one wants to go to games in Florida no matter what, but I saw poor crowds for good teams until things warmed up.
The schedule shoot be tilted toward Southern home games during March and April. I don’t know what you can do about the postseason…
I’m not sure (tho the point has some validity) that stat obsession is the reason for the decline. I grew up in an age when we all fought to see who had the most baseball cards (Yes, I threw them all away). MLB has always had a numbers obsession. And the young these are more comfortable dealing with abstract measures than we ever were.
Attendance is down simply because it’s become, less and less an objective for the owners. Between Revenue Sharing and TV deals, it really doesn’t matter how many fannies are in your seats. It’s not the NFL yet, where they make money if they play in your nearby High School field; but it’s getting there.
So the obsession is getting the patron to spend more, since it’s a given that you’re going to get fewer patrons. Unfortunately, that’s only exacerbated the revenue disparity between teams that control ancillary income (parking, concessions, etc.) like Boston and NY, and teams that have a million hands in the pot. The Rays biggest economic issue, for example, isn’t their paltry attendance; it’s that they’re in a division with 4 teams that control most of their revenue. Maury Brown estimated the Rays would have to draw 8 million fans a year to equal the Red Sox or Yankee revenue streams; that’s how huge the disparity is.
Of course there are other factors; lack of action caused by the three true outcomes, a declining youth base because of the fertility crises, a sport which until 20 years ago was controlled by owners who used antiquated models to market their product; most owned teams for the tax thievery it provided. Then the John Henry-s of the world got in, and showed you could actually make REAL money owning a baseball team.
Raw attendance will likely continue to decrease, but it doesn’t matter as long as revenue growth continues. And that’s slowing; but it’s another issue.
Mookie is better than Harper and Machado. His number starts at 300
I think there’s another factor. Owner’s can already see that the Harper/Machado deals are likely to work out poorly. That could deflate the interest in another $300MM deal so quickly.
Ticket prices, ticket prices, ticket prices. No longer worth the money!
Girl Power. When interviewing for a position, there are very few that I would worry about what is between their legs. Except of course, if they were interviewing to be my date. I am sexist when it comes to that.
Now THAT’S funny.
The attendance for baseball will continue to decrease. The young generation find it boring.
Tanking is going to kill baseball. It’s BS and should be punished instead of rewarded. Draft picks should be taken away, not given for fielding a team that couldn’t beat local high school teams. IDGAF if you think players are overpaid. The fact is they aren’t. Owners should be punished for not spending money to field a good team. Markets are different. Everyone is screaming for a salary cap. I say, screw a salary cap, we need a salary floor. You spend X amount based on your market, or you draft last, and no international money.
Time to change the draft order. Top of the draft goes by reverse order of teams that didn’t make the playoffs. Then the playoff teams.
Top of the draft:
1. Indians
2. Mets
3. D-backs
Detroit would have the 20th pick instead of the first. Then the playoff teams get slotted in behind them.
Not a perfect solution by any means, but at least it’d incentivize teams to try to win.
It should go by wins after you are mathematically eliminated.
I used to go to games, but it’s become too pricey, a bit boring and most of all the games are just too long.
With a 75” UHD TV and the MLB package I don’t need to hassle with parking, overpriced food, rude fans etc. Im watching more MLB now than ever before.
White Sox vs. Yankees, Field of Dreams 2020 – For the love of God please, no Joe Buck.
no joe buck, amen!
** How to increase attendance ** Make MLB audio free, that’s right free. Create more fans by using free audio.
Open up the availability of streaming. All sports seemed to be blacked out on your streaming packages. We cant watch our teams play unless we overspend on cable.
Travel less. Make more 3,4,5 game series. Longer home stands. Less travel.
Shorten game times. Shorten the season.
Regarding attendance its time for mlb to wake up and realize its the perfect time to get back as America’s favorite sport the Nfl is a fraud staged like the wwf its just a joke. But mlb needs to forget about the so called tradition get rid of at least 4 teams have a DH in both leagues and most important make it a 100 game season ppl have too many entertainment options to watch such a long season. Just forget the divisions and leagues top 8 teams make post season. MLB needs to realize we have busier lifes and we dont need as many teams get rid of the teams that complain about revenue their only in it for the money put a salary cap but where their is a minimum teams have to spend too many teams who are always rebuilding and collecting money from the teams that actually car. Games are more boring then ever who wants to watch a Marlins vs Orioles game.
If I was the commissioner, the first thing to greatly return fans:
Remove forced public allegiances to various causes from professional sports.
I am personally at the point now where I would not take up any offer to see a game which has a halftime or extended breaks. This is one reason why I love baseball, but it too is succumbing to the following:
The last time I went to a NFL game, I had to stand for nearly ten minutes as veterans are wheeled out with crippling war injuries. At a hockey game, I’m shocked to say experiencing the line between national allegiance and raising for der Feuer was never more thin. Basketball pushes ex gang members trying to help inner-city communities. At a recent baseball game, I endured extended closeups on the big screen of a veteran who had his face reassembled.
Fans are not purchasing tickets for any of this, nor should they be forced into it because they wish to support the competitiveness of the sports and players they root for. Honors like throwing out the first pitch, the national anthem, that’s fine. But ALL this other stuff is so saturated, it’s time to just get out. Just go. Make a video, whatever. Stop staring at me and my friends and family. Just get out.
“several of the teams flagging in the attendance category also operate in some of the smallest and least economically flourishing metropolitan markets”
St Louis Cardinals 3.4 million fans. Every year it’s a lock. So there goes that theory..
“SEVERAL of the teams flagging” was the operative word. Not ALL. So the “theory” stands.
MLB attendance is down because it’s just too expensive to attend games with high ticket, parking, and concession prices. A family of four will spend $500+ for decent seats at a single game.
MLB owners don’t care about attendance anyway – that’s an old state. Their focus is on maximizing total revenue.
Internet pundits and even Manfred blame attendance on the length of the games when that’s not true at all. Minor league attendance is thriving in most areas simply because it’s affordable and entertaining.
If your team is good, you would attend more games.
Not at $500 for a family of four. I can afford it but I won’t spend my money that way. I just won’t.
Ask Mookie for a list of 5 teams he might like to sign with and let Bloom make it happen.
I would speculate Atlanta, Cincy would be 2
Mookie seems intent on trying free agency I don’t think he has any plans to sign an extension with anyone. If he was willing to sign an extension he would do it with Boston the Organization he has been in. I think he wants to try free agency and see what he is worth.
I get the feeling that Mookie is determined to leave Boston. He could have said “All things being equal, I would prefer to stay with Boston”, but he hasn’t said that, or anything close to it. I get the distinct feeling that there is some sort of underlying resentment there. Not sure of the cause, but I think it’s pretty obvious.
Why do we keep discussing Mookie and an extension? He is determined to engage in a FA bidding war and who can blame him? End of discussion.
Lifetime old school baseball fan here.
None of the changes that have been made have helped other than the “ get in the batters box and stay there rule” The no collisions and “ let the kids play “ haven’t helped. I agree let the kids play but give the pitchers the brush back and inside corner Bring back the hit-and-run, stealing bases and get some people moving on the field again. That will get attendance back
No team will take Betts for players, picks and 30mil for one season, unless they can sign him long term, attendance is down, too expensive, I used 2 go to many games a year, now 10 a year, $10 beers, 20 for parking, $50 for seats, $7.50 for weiner & and bad rule changes
So why does Mookie think he can get a Trout type contract?
Why did Trout get it if, as you say, things are so bad out there ?
As in the broader society, the few get all the bucks at the expense of the many.
Shorten the regular season
—add two teams and split into 4 separate leagues, no inter-league play, same rules
—9 home, 9 away games cuts the season to 126 games per team
—the shortened regular season would allow a play-off structure for additional income
—the 4 leagues would allow grouping of teams to cut travel times, costs
Shorten game time
—to me, the most logical way would be to enforce the amount of time between pitches: if the batter isn’t ready call a strike; if the pitcher isn’t ready, call a ball.
—throws to first by a pitcher probably could be controlled by only allowing the runner, say, 2 or 3 slides back into first: once he reaches that number, he has to try the steal
Control shifts
—all infielders playing deep must have at least one foot on the infield dirt (the layout must be defined and equal in all stadiums)
1B/2B/3B must play within x-feet from their base; SS may play on either side of second but is restricted to the chosen side for that plate appearance
That should take care of some things. Of course, there will be people screaming about the snactity of rules and records. Well, I’ve been watching the game for about 70 years and have been a SABR member for close to 40 of them.
Just try making it affordable to attend games again & people’ll come out in droves.
$20 a seat, $10 parking, $5 beer, $5 hot dog, $20 tee shirt… That would work. For both parties.
Regarding the attendance drop, it is not just one thing. It is the pace (batters need to stop stepping out of the box every pitch is one glaring issue), it is rebuilding teams (but I can attest that watching consistently middling teams is not much better), it also is salaries (I think people do get tired of hearing whiny players demanding another million when many people can barely earn enough disposable income to get to a game), it is inept front offices and ownership as well (with many teams seemingly never finding a winning formula, or being consistent enough to keep it going). Finally, with all of these special channels to watch games coming, I think it is only going to cause another drop in attendance as if you cannot see enough games on TV, do you really want to go to a game at the stadium? As an example, and I know it is hockey as opposed to baseball, ask the Blackhawks org what happens when a fan cannot watch a home game on TV, their attendance plummeted, and that was just home games!
Just asking (WHO) IS GOING TO STEP FORWARD AND TRADE FOR MOOKIE NOW?
Or (WHO) IS GOING TO GIVE UP A DRAFT PICK AND SIGN MOOKIE AS A F/A AFTER 2020?
You have to identify (WHO) can pay for a Trout type contract (12 years/$426.5M).
You have to identify (WHO) can win it all by adding Mookie?
Please list your top 2 team (IN CONTENTION FOR MOOKIE) and please explain why?
You’d have to think if a team truly wanted Mookie they’d trade for Mookie now and at the same time offer Mookie a long term deal as a proviso.
Then the only issue would be who they’d have to give up?
Is it a current player or a draft pick or some combination?
The Red Sox may trade Mookie simply for a 1st and 2nd round draft pick.
Chaim Bloom knows what’s out there.
It would have to be a team that wants Mookie and can pay him and thinks they can win it all by just adding that missing piece.
Who would that UNIDENTIFIED team be?
Mookie isn’t going to get a Trout type contract unless he has another 10+ WAR year. He’s only had one of them. He was 6.8 last year. He’s going to get $300MM, give or take $25MM.
I agree Mookie’s not worth $426M but I think he doesn’t agree.
That’s why he’s likely gone in Boston.
And There are only a few teams other than Boston that can pay him $426M.
But we’ll see what happens.
I do think Boston would be crazy to pay him over (6years/$150M).
I’m guessing Mookie gets 10/325-350 when he is free agent. Not as much as Trout but in that category. I also don’t think he will be worth that contract.
Mookie vs. Trout/Is Mookie getting a Trout contract?
Mookie
One season with a WAR north of 10.
Last year his WAR was 6.8.
He has a career WAR of 42.
He’s 27.
Trout
3 seasons north of 10 WAR,
5 seasons north of 9.
Career WAR 72.5.
He’s 28.
There’s NO COMPARISON.
Anyone who pays Betts anything near $400MM is a fool. Now, there are definitely foolish owners/GM’s, but I’ve gotta go with him getting a contract of $300MM, give or take $25MM, especially since the Machado and Harper contracts are out there and performance so far has not been a ringing endorsement for big, long deals. In fact, along with Stanton, that news has been out there a while.
Only Trout is likely to live up to his contract. And he is probably the greatest ballplayer ever. Betts is a great player, but he’s not in Trout’s league.
Fans are staying away because they have noticed that the economics of baseball are broken. The number of games back, has increased over time between the best and worst teams in the division. For years, MLS, Major League Soccer was benefiting, as fans in smaller markets were attending games of their soccer team instead of their baseball team. But MLS, has started to run into the same problems between the rich and the poor.
$20 brews & $10 dogs on top of $75 tix – why would attendance drop?!
The owners have to recoup these exorbitant salaries some way.
$20 brews & $10 dogs on top of $75 ticket prices are an example.
Fans are sick of it.
Then on top of it to see these guys missing games.
Try that on your job and see what happens.
I don’t have enough resentment toward others’ talents & career choices to compare them to my own as you do, so I don’t blame the players; yet I do blame in part moneygrubbing owners who couldn’t throw a baseball to home from first most days but nevertheless think their serendipitous control of many almighty dollars justifies anything they do or could do.
The reason why teams can gauge ticket prices is because of “dynamic pricing”. It basically says they can control the prices based on market value for each ticket, so they can maximize profits while attendance plummets. Baseball is basically a corporation now and wants us to get on board with it while players want more and more and more money. Sports is the only place where you can demand the most money from your bosses for your performance. Everyone else busts their backs and gets asked to pay ridiculous prices for merchandise, tickets, amenities while in the stadiums and such. And unless you were at the top of the league in your position or certain other categories, you won’t be seeing this money you’re busting your back for. So, baseball has been broken as soon as teams realized they can make it more of a business with a side of having a team
I don’t mind paying a little extra for amenities that are worth it in the real world. $50 t-shirt, I’ll pass. And a $10 slice of pizza isn’t really the best slice I’ve ever had. These prices are still 2007 or have risen since. It ain’t right.
I went to a game last Sept. and a lady was all over me in the hat store. She didn’t even work there. She just wanted my bag probably so she could return an item she got for free at the door.
It’s getting real out there.
Yes and if you don’t pay their prices they call their fans unappreciative! Money grubbing owners are destroying baseball as a pastime. Commissioner Manfred is a puppet for the owners. Fans have no representation while we pay for all of it. the next strike us fans should strike as well and not watch another game till owners and players are begging us.
Let’s be real the Red Sox won’t get a huge prospect haul for Betts anyways unless they allow a sign and trade situation. No team is going to give up their top guy for a half season of Betts unless they know they have him signed then the haul will go up significantly
Betts is not going to sign anywhere before FA. He’s been very clear about that. He wants a FA bidding war and who can blame him? He’ll get it.