Even as the Astros fend off yet another controversy, they’re working to tweak an exceptionally talented roster. And GM Jeff Luhnow says that a key focus for the winter is to buttress a rotation that stands to lose key pieces to free agency, as Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle writes.
That’s not exactly surprising; it was obvious that something would need to be done with ace Gerrit Cole and sturdy veteran Wade Miley departing, to say nothing of Collin McHugh and (likely) Aaron Sanchez. Even with Lance McCullers Jr. slated to return — with Brad Peacock, Jose Urquidy, and Josh James also options to join Justin Verlander and Zack Greinke — there’s a dearth of reliable innings on hand. But it was not entirely clear just how the ’Stros would go about filling in.
Luhnow made clear that the organization would like to come away from the hot stove season with multiple veteran additions to the rotation mix. “I’d prefer to have two because more options is better,” he said, “but it’s going to come down to what we can actually get done and what our value proposition is.”
It doesn’t sound as if the Astros necessarily feel a need to add a pair of surefire starters. Luhnow spoke of a “need to build that list” of “eight or nine guys competing for five spots.” And he noted that some additions could be promised a starting spot, while others might be brought into compete for one.
As Rome highlights, there’s an interesting question here for Luhnow — or, perhaps, for owner Jim Crane. The team has expressed a desire not to move past the luxury tax line, but that doesn’t leave much free payroll to work with. And Luhnow again emphasized a desire to avoid tying up too much future spending capacity, saying: “In general, the more flexibility we give ourselves in the future, the better off we’re going to be as an organization.”
There are numerous directions the Astros could take here. It’ll obviously depend upon the opportunities available — the “value proposition,” as Luhnow frames it — along with the team’s willingness to spend and decisions on investing in other areas of need. Landing the next Miley or Charlie Morton would surely be ideal, though that requires both the identification of an undervalued asset and the ability to reach agreement before another team swoops in. There are quite a few notable hurlers entering free agency this winter. It’ll be fascinating to see how the ’Stros end up engaging the rotation market.
CrewBrew
Wonder if Mike Fiers is on that list anymore….
astrosrock
Ha! Well played
GothamNeedsMe
Nice.
MoRivera 1999
No but my hat’s off to him for being honest. Pedey scoffed at the bruhaha about stealing signs, saying every little league team does it, but he didn’t have the integrity to just come right out and admit it.
CrewBrew
It is true that most, if not all teams try and steal signs, but its the technology part of it that makes it so bad. This is a bad look for baseball because it brings up the “integrity of the game” argument. If the Astros went to the extent to steal signs, who says they didnt bug the opposing players clubhouse to listen to in game strategy? Im sure other teams have tried/are cheating in the same way the Astros are though. Im hoping this is the end of it as well. We will just have to wait and see what other news comes out on this. I hope that baseball lays down the hammer hard on Houston. Possibly strip away draft picks/find some other way to hurt their team going further. I highly doubt that everyone on Houston was oblivious to it as well. I have a feeling that this was an organizational level scandal, but just my prediction.
Ejemp2006
Due process? Thank God Stalin isn’t hiring you to dispense justice.
The_M4N
Due process!!! Roflmao…
selw0nk 2
He is still with the A’s though.
ben4ben
I don’t think they should invest in any veterans, a rotation with Verlander, Greinke, Sanchez, Mcullers jr and Urquidy is already decent. That’s if you forget about Sanchez’s terrible 2019
thickiedon
What?!? McCullers And Sanchez coming off of surgeries and a fill in rookie?!? Dude…
whiplash
Fill in rookie? Did you watch this guy pitch down the stretch or playoffs? They could always trade for a pitcher if 1 or 2 of these guys aren’t effective. Plus Whitley is waiting to come up. He’s a Cole type of pitcher, power fastball with above average offspeed. They’ll be fine.
lsujedi
Whitley is far from a guarantee to do anything in the majors at this point. Luhnow is treating him exactly as he should: expect nothing and be grateful if he gives you something.
thickiedon
You can’t bank on Urquidy to replicate a small sample. Have you seen Whitley pitch? I have and he is wild, unconvincing and immature
whiplash
I get it, he’s been inconsistent but he has the stuff. Look at Cole he was good one year and ok the rest of his time in Pittsburgh. He comes here and dominates 2 years in a row. I’m sure they know what’s wrong with Whitley they just need to correct it. Maybe it’s his height and just needs a delivery tune up. Urquidy at least deserves a shot to try to replicate. With his stuff I’m sure he’ll be better than what we got from Miley.
Ejemp2006
You forget Miley was awesome for most of the season. Like, awesome.
thickiedon
So awesome that he wasn’t on ALCS or WS rosters
YADI
They will sign Wheeler
CrewBrew
Wheeler would be an excellent addition to a team thats like 99% certain to lose Cole.
BeeVeeTee
The Astros are already expected to be over the 2020 luxury tax threshold so don’t bet on them signing Wheeler or a marquee pitcher!
clrrogers 2
Their payroll last year was $158MM, which was actually down about $2MM from 2018. They’re not in danger of going over the luxury tax.
dcrising
Hate to break it to you, but they’re already projected well over the luxury tax at $225m with their current roster.
myaccount
Increasing arbitration salaries, guys reaching arbitration, extensions kicking in, etc. The Astros payroll will balloon.
boo rad
Yup. If Astros make zero additions, they will have exceeded the luxury tax. And that’s including the ~10 players heading to FA.
WAR_OVERRATED
statista.com/statistics/236206/payroll-of-major-le…
Opening day payrolls of Major League Baseball teams in 2019 (in million U.S. dollars)
Total payroll in million U.S. dollars
Boston Red Sox 213.19
Chicago Cubs 208.2
New York Yankees 206.41
Washington Nationals 181.4
Houston Astros 177.44
Philadelphia Phillies 172.37
Los Angeles Angels 167.46
New York Mets 161.87
Los Angeles Dodgers 152.86
St. Louis Cardinals 150.37
Steve Adams
Wrote about this at length last month:
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/10/astros-rumors-luxury-ta…
It’s extremely difficult to see how they could make any notable upgrades without exceeding the tax, which Jim Crane said he preferred not to do.
They very arguably should be willing to do so, of course. There’s no real reason not to. As a first-time offender their penalty would be a few million dollars, and they have substantial money coming off the books after 2020 which could help them dip back down.
But regardless of whether they should or shouldn’t be willing, they’re very much on the cusp of surpassing the threshold.
wsox05
Do you just not look up anything before you write thag a?
wsox05
It to be clear I was talking to the guy who said they were no where close to the luxury tax
teufelshunde4
According to Cots Contracts Astro’s today are 20 million under threshold
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1diURgMcFIRi10yKQhY…
vtadave
Not today, but with the projected arbitration salaries they will be. Some of these raises are pretty substantial:
macstruts
Teufetshunde4
I’m not really sure what you are looking at but basically everyone disagrees with you. But it’s $211,891,667 That’s a copy and past from Baseball Prospectus. Also Baseball reference pretty much concurs. You need to remember it’s AAV.
The Astros will be over the tax and will have a small fine. If they remain over the tax, the fine grows.
rmullig2
No that says that they are 20 million over the threshold.
802Ghost
When it comes to financial stuff, red letters = negative
Astro’s are $20m over tax line bc of Greinke.
Throw Like a Girl
They might want to invest some of that money to upgrade their cheating instruments to something a little more modern than a wooden spoon and a metal trash can.
clepto
Weak. Very weak.
[DOWNVOTE]
macstruts
So the Astro can steal outs and games which cost millions of dollars and the guy who makes a snarky comment is weak?
You should run for politics. Truth doesn’t matter.
whiplash
I guess the Astros are the only ones that try to steal signs… that’s the truth
MoRivera 1999
You can only follow the evidence. Like the Sox, the Stros were caught red-handed. Harsh repercussions should put an end to the sign stealing and the so-called Astros “dynasty” (Pfft, one stolen, fraudulent Series win and it’s a dynasty? I don’t think so…)
No Soup For Yu!
Anyone gonna talk about how this guy’s name is Clepto and he’s defending the Astros for stealing signs? No? Well I think it’s funny.
CrewBrew
lmao that would be funny. Imagine them using a spatula and a walmart plastic bin in the tunnel.
Black Ace57
I agree, Luhnow should plant mics around at the winter meetings so he can hear what all the other teams are saying in negotiations with agents. Then he can make a big deal about how the org doesn’t get into any wrongdoing right before a bunch of evidence is revealed.
ScottCFA
“I like your thinking Ace. Would you like a job.”
-Jeff Luhnow
Black Ace57
If he doesn’t make me bring my own trash can to work I’ll take it.
jabl
They could use smoke signals, except it would probably be politically incorrect.
GothamGuy
sounds like the Astros are thinking more along the lines of adding both Cole Hamels and Madison Bumgarner for the price of Zack Wheeler
myaccount
Sounds more like Cole Hamels and Rick Porcello for much less than the cost of Bumgarner, which is much less than the cost of Wheeler.
jabl
They could offer Boston a deal for David Price if the Red Sox would eat half of his current contract.
lsujedi
Lol
bravesfan
They are a bit curious, historically they don’t open up the pocket book much but in recent years it’s been a completely different story. When teams are as good as the astros are talent wise, I love to see how much they can stack on top of it and run with.
lsujedi
They open it up, but not with more than a couple years on the k unless they’re homegrown
BKS1110
Guys like Cole Hamels and Kyle Gibson are certainly interesting. Won’t cost draft picks, and likely won’t command huge contracts, money or length-wise.
puhl
I’d take a flyer on Julio Tehran. Astros have a great track record of improving pitchers when they get them in the organization. Tehran wasn’t terrible. He had a sub 4 ERA and is still only 29. Could be a big addition for any team.
Phiilies2020
Astros should try to trade for high potential arms that havent quite lived up to their potential. Dylan Bundy & Kyle Freeland come to mind
bobtillman
Edwin Jackson and BIG SEXY!!!!!!!!!
ScottCFA
LOL!
Ackattack
I think they got bigger things to worry about
okiguess
Astros worked miracles with Verlander, Cole and Morton.
GothamGuy
huh ? in your mind Verlander and Cole werent already legit stars before being traded to the Astros ?
clubber_lang84
Look at the years prior to joining the Astros. Sure Verlander is Verlander, but he improved. Cole and Morton took it to the next level
Priggs89
Verlander was 34 and looked like he was in the beginning stages of a steep decline, and Cole was nowhere close to what he was with the Astros.
“Worked miracles” is a bit of a stretch, but they both made substantial improvements post-trade(s).
MoRivera 1999
Verlander went from 3.86 to 1.46 overnight. Cole went from 4.26 to 2.88. A change happened. Two #2’s/#3’s went to top of the majors studs overnight. Overnight sensations. Bauer had a point.
thickiedon
Did he call Wade Miley sturdy?!?
clubber_lang84
Miley had a sub 3 era all year. September came and he gave up like 27 runs in 1/3rd of an inning across 5 starts. He couldn’t get an out. Something going on pitch tipping wise or an injury. Either way, he was very sturdy for 85% of the season.
desertbull
And a new trash can?
bigbadjohnny
Quintana from the Cubs would be a nice fit !
macstruts
The Astros, like the A’s, seem to have found a way to get the most out of starters, including scrap heap starters I wouldn’t bet against them.
bigdaddyhacks
I don’t want to work, I want bang on this trash can all day……
canocorn
Whenever the Astros come to bat in away games next season, the home team should broadcast Hank Williams’ Your Cheatin Heart.
Freddie Morales
I definitely see them going after short term contracts. They have so many young arms that are MLB ready. Plus Greinke and Verlander are very durable starters. Urquidy, James, Whitley, Peacock, and McCullers. 2/5 of the latter should be in the rotation next season. no need to invest years and dollars when they have so many guys to resign
astros_fan_84
Cole Hamels and Chris Archer.
The Astros have a history of fixing Pirates pitchers and Hamels might be available for a 1 year deal. Hardly, a long term commitment.
Rich Hill’s Elbow
Andrew Cashner current circumstances seem very similar to what Morton was going through before signing with Houston. If not him, I’d guess anyone of Hamels, Gibson, or Roark.
CardsFan77
They could snag vasquez as a closer from the pirates… Then they couls bang on all the cans they wanted to… Just create a bigfer scandal so your original scandal doesn’t seem bad at all #SlideOfHands
clepto
Weak. Very weak. And poor AF taste.
[DOWNVOTE]
Try ‘slide ofF hands OFF KEYBOARD.
CrewBrew
whats your issue in policing comments here? Dont you have anything else to add?
vtadave
No, he doesn’t
clepto
[Yawn]
CrewBrew
Yawn.
Bingo
Exactly what other people do when they see you post
spinach
Should go large on one-two year deals, blow past tax for a year. Hamels, Hill, trader for Lester if can.
sippycups
Astros ’17 World Champs*
jbigz12
I believe I projected them Drew Smyly. Make it happen Luhnow.
FattKemp
Are we absolutely positive they cheated? Or was Mike Fiers butt hurt about being left off of every 2017 Postseason Roster, and then he had to sign with Detroit? He started 28 games, didn’t throw a single playoff pitch, got a pity ring, and got told to pack his bags. Now 2 years later he claims they all cheated? Come on.
Priggs89
Yes, I’m absolutely positive they cheated.
MoRivera 1999
It did take him a while to come forward. Whatever the reason, the evidence is overwhelming. Deal with it. Stros stole the WS. They probably stole this year’s ALCS with Altuve’s incredibly improbable HR off Chapman’s high and outside slider.
MoRivera 1999
As someone said the other day about Chapman’s pitch, NO ONE is looking for that pitch without help.
FattKemp
I will have none of it about that “slider.” It was hanging on a tee at 88 MPH and didn’t slide whatsoever. For a former batting title winner, that pitch was a gift and he didn’t miss.
Miamisunset80
Good point
Astros44
Someone please help clear this up for me. What’s the big deal? We see them using iPads in the dugout all the time and we also know players often go downstairs and watch the game on tv. For example, we know when a umpire misses a call they go down into the clubhouse to see who was actually correct. Why would it be against the rules to decipher the opposing pitchers signs using the TV cameras during the game when the MLB provides every team with iPads and TVs all around the dugout and clubhouse? I’m not a fan of what the Astros did as much the next guy but why is it a rule if everyone is given iPads and TVs? Seems to me like every team has obviously used this method and the 100% guarentee fix would be to change the camera angle so no camera can see the catcher signs. I wonder how ppl would react to watching all of the broadcasts from behind home plate with a strikezone box somewhere on the screen. Personally I think youd get a better appreciation of how talented they are because the closer you are, the faster the ball looks
Rallyshirt
A lie of this magnitude is extremely costly to protect “the other” lies. Strap yourself in, because a new sheriff is coming to Houston.
Cave Johnson
Peyton Manning?
lsujedi
Case in point, baseball’s greatest sign stealer just got hired as manager of the Mets. And he wasn’t doing his sign stealing from second base either during the 2017 run. You’d have to actually get to play and then get on base to do that. One butthurt guy decided to single out the team he feels wronged him by not putting his Iron Mike pitching machine throwing motion on the playoff rosters. Everyone steals signs however they can. And they hire sign stealers as their managers.
Priggs89
More than one guy…
And video evidence… But hey, maybe that loud banging was just a coincidence.
stretch123
Hamels would be an excellent fit for them.
radar
Trevor Cahill, Matt Harvey, and now Nick Tropeano are available for CHEAP! Please take them! heh heh heh heh Morenos miracles……
jorge78
Luhnow is looking more and more like Papa Joe Kennedy. And we know now how he liked to cheat…..
MoRivera 1999
Incoming! Political turd in the pool!
lsujedi
When did it become about Luhnow. There’s coaches, players, and MMP guys that would be way ahead of him as far as in game tactics.
FattKemp
What sign is there to possibly steal? Every pitcher throws 2, maybe 3 pitches. Flip a coin and you’d probably guess right enough of the time to get paid. Adjust your guess with the situation, and you’re making a bit more. “Tanaka is throwing a splitter OMG!” Duh. All of his other pitches are garbage.
vtadave
Yeah I’m sure it makes no difference knowing that a fastball is coming as opposed to a curve.
FattKemp
If you have half of a brain, depending on the count/situation, you can figure out what’s coming with or without whatever elaborate scheme everyone thinks the Astros were intelligent enough to pull off (they weren’t). Everyone should stop it.
macstruts
Seriously, you don’t think there is an advantage knowing it’s an off-speed pitcher vs fastball?
Stop rationalizing. What the Astros did reprehensible. I hope they get nailed big time.
FattKemp
For what? I genuinely don’t believe that a Major Leaguer is intelligent enough to pull off a scheme with a camera from CF and whatever other bs is necessary to make this happen. They’re all millionaires whether they cheat or not so what’s the point? 7 or 8 guys on that team didn’t even speak English, but they’re all stealing signs and relaying them to one another?
Priggs89
What does speaking English have to do with this situation? I’ll clue you in – absolutely nothing.
Do you think catchers put down a different finger for fastball when a pitcher speaks Spanish?
FattKemp
It’s easier to cheat when there aren’t three languages involved. It’s more necessary when there aren’t 10 All-Star Caliber players on the roster. This is news because they have nothing to report until someone signs a contract between now and spring training. Use your head.
Priggs89
Yah, it’s also pretty easy to cheat when you set up a camera that shows exactly what sign the catcher is putting down.
“If you hear no banging, it’s a fastball. If you hear banging, it’s off-speed.”
Unless you think the sound of someone banging on a trash can sounds different when you don’t speak English, language has absolutely nothing to do with this.
MoRivera 1999
“Do you think catchers put down a different finger for fastball when a pitcher speaks Spanish?”
LOL! Love it!
msuengr2000
Winners are always targets.
Reprehensible? Seriously? I hate cheating but that is a bit extreme. Half of the players in MLB still couldn’t hit a good curveball or slider even if they knew it was coming. Comments about this being a stolen World Series are ridiculous. Talent is talent. Did they get an advantage? probably. But the time it takes from getting the sign to throwing the pitch is short. Deciphering bangs on a garbage can in the midst of watching the pitch takes talent in itself.
By the story’s own anonymous sources (one thing I truly hate) it stopped before the playoffs. So, they won without that aid. And, at least half the games are on the road where you couldn’t do it if you tried. The last piece of the whole thing that doesn’t add up to me is that the scheme was to bang on a garbage can. So, that had to be loud enough to be heard by a hitter above the crowd. And yet not a single first baseman, pitcher, catcher, etc. heard it and made a connection until now? Fiers was let go because he sucked and currently plays for a division rival trying to catch the top dog. His testimony along with “anonymous sources” does not prove guilt. Let’s have the investigation play out before announcing moral superiority.
MoRivera 1999
They should have their WS victory taken away. Hinch should be banned. They should lose first and second round draft picks.
Make the repercussions truly harsh and it will stop.
FattKemp
From the bottom of my heart, shut. The f***. Up. That’s the stupidest thing I’ve seen on this website. “I’m a victim because the Yankees lost!” Cry about it. Banging on a trash can? Y’all are honestly something else.
Boogaloo
That title is garbage, everyone but houston homers know it.
Still took them 7 games with that advantage, talk about pathetic
Jonthunder
He should be Fiered, not at the winter meetings.
jorge78
With their awesome analytics department they should find that next hidden gem…..
FattKemp
Yeah Mike Wengren is on his way to bang on a trash can
andrewgauldin
Are we forgetting about Forrest Whitley?
DarkSide830
he had a pretty forgettable season, to be fair.
lsujedi
Can’t count on an entirely unproven prospect to play any kind of role in a WS team. EX: signed Brantley and kept Reddick over counting on Tucker last season. May even do the same again
Sk8rboi
Correa, Whitley, and Tucker for Syndergaard and Cespedes
Phiilies2020
…and then you woke up
Mystery Team
I actually applied for the garbage can banging job with Houston. Haven’t heard back yet but I got my fingers crossed.
takeitback
It’s funny to me how many people think the Astros are going to get serious punishment for stealing signs. The Red Sox were caught stealing signs in 2017 and received a fine.
The Astros are caught stealing signs for the same 2017 season, yet people think they are going to receive a harsher punishment than the Red Sox? Haha. Ok.
Now, if they could prove they used technology to steal signs during the 2018 or 2019 seasons, then I would agree. But the precedent for the 2017 season was set by the Red Sox punishment. At that time, the rules, expectations, and punishment was changed moving forward. But the accusations are still for the 2017 season, so there are going to be a lot of disappointed people here once the punishment is handed down.