Nov. 14: Major League Baseball is planning to talk to Red Sox manager Alex Cora and newly minted Mets skipper Carlos Beltran about the issue, Rosenthal and Drellich further report (subscription required). Both were on the 2017 Astros — Cora as bench coach and Beltran in the final season of his playing career. Beltran firmly denied any knowledge of the system in a statement to Joel Sherman of the New York Post.
ESPN’s Jeff Passan adds that the league has already interviewed former Astros bullpen coach Craig Bjornson, who joined Cora with the Red Sox. MLB is making its best effort to gather “tangible evidence,” Passan writes, and will “consider levying long suspensions” to those who are found to have lied during the interview process.
Nov. 12: The Astros have come under scrutiny once again, this time on the heels of an in-depth report by Ken Rosenthal and Evan Drellich of The Athletic (subscription required), wherein four former employees, including right-hander Mike Fiers, detailed an extensive sign-stealing operation enacted by the team during the 2017 season. Stealing signs in a traditional sense — such as a runner on second base watching the catcher and attempting to discern the pitch that has been called — is generally accepted as part of the game. Utilizing technology to aid in that effort, however, is expressly forbidden by the league.
The Astros, per the report, would utilize a center-field camera fixated on the catcher and a television monitor placed in the clubhouse tunnel near the dugout steps to try to decode an opponent’s signs. An Astros employee or player would then at times signal the type of pitch that was coming with a loud sound — typically banging on a trash can to alert the hitter of an offspeed or breaking pitch. Fiers, who was non-tendered by Houston following the 2017 season, confirmed that setup when interviewed by The Athletic. He added that upon leaving the organization, he warned his future Tigers and Athletics teammates of the practice.
“I just want the game to be cleaned up a little bit because there are guys who are losing their jobs because they’re going in there not knowing,” Fiers explained to The Athletic. “Young guys getting hit around in the first couple of innings starting a game, and then they get sent down. It’s (B.S.) on that end. It’s ruining jobs for younger guys.”
Fiers may have been in the Houston dugout during that 2017 season, but opponents on the pitcher’s mound weren’t totally in the dark. Recently retired reliever Danny Farquhar detailed a late-2017 appearance during which he caught wind of what was taking place, telling The Athletic: “There was a banging from the dugout, almost like a bat hitting the bat rack every time a changeup signal got put down. After the third one, I stepped off. I was throwing some really good changeups and they were getting fouled off. After the third bang, I stepped off.”
As one might expect in 2019, it didn’t take long for someone to find video footage of the incident in question. Lucas Apostoleris of Baseball Prospectus quickly found the appearance referenced by Farquhar (Twitter link), and the sound of the banging detailed by Farquhar can be heard quite clearly in the included video link.
It’s worth emphasizing that electronic sign stealing is widely believed to extend beyond the walls of Houston’s Minute Maid Park. As Rosenthal and Drellich explore, concerns surrounding the potential stealing of signs via technology aren’t necessarily unique to the Houston organization. Teams are increasingly wary that other clubs are utilizing technology to gain a competitive edge and steal signs, with one anonymous MLB manager telling The Athletic that such habits “permeate” the league and that MLB has done a “very poor job” policing the issue.
The league did fine the Red Sox during the 2017 season for illegal use of an Apple Watch in their home dugout, though there have not been any other publicized instances of league-issued discipline regarding technology-driven sign stealing. The investigation that led to the sanction of the Red Sox stemmed from a complaint filed by the Yankees, which the Red Sox countered with their own complaint alleging that the Yankees had utilized a YES Network camera to steal signs from Boston. Distrust between other organizations is surely prevalent throughout the league.
After the Red Sox were fined in 2017, commissioner Rob Manfred intimated that stricter punishments would be levied for future violations of this nature (link via the Associated Press): “All 30 clubs have been notified that future violations of this type will be subject to more serious sanctions, including the possible loss of draft picks.”
This isn’t the first time that the Astros, specifically, have been accused of stealing signs; a man with ties to the Astros organization, Kyle McLaughlin, was caught taking pictures near the Indians and Red Sox dugouts during the 2018 postseason. At the time, the Astros claimed that they were trying to ensure that those clubs weren’t utilizing illegal and/or unethical measures to gain an advantage. They were cleared of any rule violations by the league. A year later, during the 2019 ALCS, Houston manager A.J. Hinch scoffed at the notion that their players were whistling to call out the Yankees’ signs, calling any such accusations “a joke.” General manager Jeff Lunnow, at the time, told Chandler Rome of the Houston Chronicle:
“We haven’t done anything wrong. If people want to make their own conclusions based on what little evidence there is out there — really just rumors, speculations and accusations without any names behind it — that’s their prerogative. I’m not concerned because I know how we behave and how we act. We’re not doing anything wrong.”
Today, the Astros offered the following statement in reference to the report from Rosenthal and Drellich:
“Regarding the story posted by The Athletic earlier today, the Houston Astros organization has begun an investigation in cooperation with Major League Baseball. It would not be appropriate to comment further on this matter at this time.”
Asked to personally comment on the matter today at the GM Meetings, Luhnow told a large contingent of reporters that the organization will cooperate with any investigations but declined further comment (Twitter link via Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune).
clubber_lang84
Lol this is a non story
yanks02026
How is this a non story? They used cameras to steal signs. Stealing signs from a runner being on is one thing but using cameras and then sound effects is different
jkoch717
Exactly. Stealing signs from second is gamesmanship. Stealing signs with a camera in center field is cheating.
dynamite drop in monty
I agree!
ChapmansVacuum
Cameras with a non player involved mean that you can watch and write down sign combinations on every pitch of the game until you map the whole sign system of the team, and then your reading live bases empty or not.
So illegal, and coming from an organization that has gotten caught for other hinky or questionable behavior. Two weeks ago we couldnt hear enough about how much Hou loves Ozuna, and they dont care about the PR black eye it gives them. Can he be prosecuted for abuse of the Astros next, maybe they wont be leveraged out of testifying so that Ozuna gets punished this time!
Strike Four
Houston are a trash franchise, period. They win a lot on field, but the people at the top are horrific.
Ironman_4life
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say but that’s the whole point. Winning on the field.
bigslick1
Agreed. If a catcher doesn’t hide his signs or doesn’t change them with a runner on second, that’s fair game.
But the moment you use photography or ANY technology it’s cheating and those involved should be dealt with accordingly.
Rallyshirt
@bigslick1
New hire training:
“That’s the button for the choo-choo train, and over here is the button for the camera focusing on the opposing catcher. Got it?”
didi gregorious nose
Its osuna not ozuna
gbs42
Osuna, not Ozuna. Big difference.
DaveParkerHOF
What rule are you citing that defines this as illegal? The rules against outfield cameras were just implemented for the 2019 season. The rules on dugout technology weren’t violated if the technology wasn’t in the dugout.
iowayanksfan
That was implemented after the red sux cheated with the I phones. Very easy to google the MLB rules and refs. Look it up.
DaveParkerHOF
That’s my point. 2017 was before the rule changes.
njbirdsfan
What he’s saying is your entire fanbase is composed of white trash who steal money from the parts of the country who actually produce something of value.
thickiedon
¿Como?
athleticsnchill
As an A’s fan I hate both of them so there is no difference.
TeddyBallgameYazJimEd
He’s a Dirt Bag…
However you spell it.
victorg
meh I mean they are both criminals cri criminals
clubber_lang84
You have to be kidding? Oil and Beef aren’t valuable? Texas is the only state that could (and has been) a country on its own lol.
howiet
Refs?
empirejim
Seriously, DaveParker??? That’s a guilty person grasping at the letter of the law, not the intent. If your “innocence” hinges on letter of the law as opposed to intent of the law, then you are just a cheater trying to justify your cheating.
Play the game the right way.
CardsNation5
It is when it comes to spelling a person name right
MLBTRS
California Republic, 1846
Polymath
Perhaps the Cardinals can exchange pitch calling for Astros scouting reports and two of their draft picks.
SMMIST9
The monitor watching the signs was in the tunnel by the dugout. So the technology was really part of the dugout.
coldbeer
Didn’t the Yanks use cameras to steal signs from Boston?
clubber_lang84
Crickets lol.
Baseballallday
It was Boston using iwatches to steal from the Yankees. They were fined. They then tried to accuse the Yankees of using a YES camera
MoRivera 1999
The other way around. Sox have been doing it for years. When the Yanks “got caught” it was like a week after the Sox got caught.
MoRivera 1999
The Yanks “got caught” was an empty accusation. The Sox DID get caught. Pedey has joked about stealing signs…
rocky7
Have no idea as to where you got this accusation from….Boston was held accountable for stealing signs by using an Apple Watch not the other way around.
Tell that to you 5 friends that gave you thumbs up for being uninformed!
MoRivera 1999
@coldbeer
@xlubber_lang84
You got your facts wrong. Must be lying Sox fans. Pedey laughs about the Sox stealing signs. Says every little league does it (mine didn’t).
dabigd
Only cheaters are Boston and Houston. Boston accused the Yankees but the commissioner found nothing. They were then fined for having a phone in the dugout. That’s the only thing the Yankees did wrong.
frankiegxiii
It’s a non story because everyone pretty much already knew they were cheating
dabigd
You Asstro fans wish it was a non story. Let’s see how you feel when people start getting fired, players suspended, draft picks being withheld, that’s just for starters on your ” non story”.
YankeesBleacherCreature
It’s not. They got caught with clear video evidence and credible witnesses to corroborate their findings. It may be a league-wide issue but the Commissioner’s office will make an example out of the Astros.
Priggs89
“but the Commissioner’s office SHOULD make an example out of the Astros.”
Fixed. Whether they actually will or not remains to be seen. It’d be an absolute joke if they didn’t.
MuleorAstroMule
If it was a non-story the Astros would’ve denied it. “…the Houston Astros organization has begun an investigation in cooperation with Major League Baseball. It would not be appropriate to comment further on this matter at this time,” is press-release for “Okay, you got us.”
clubber_lang84
After the assistant GM fiasco it isn’t a shock they are staying quite. I’m sure they will release a statement lol
CubsRebsSaints
Quiet
MoRivera 1999
@clubber_lang84
Like the Red Sox did when they got caught?
LH
WHAT?!? This is a huge story. Ken rosenthal and Drellich reported it and a team that has been to 2/3 World Series has been cheating the ENTIRE time. Non-story? They’re gonna face massive consequences for this one.
Roll
They should have won .. i mean if your going to take a page out of the Patriot handbook atleast get a title with it.
chound
Damn well better!
macstruts
If you think this is a non story, you’re delusional.
Strike Four
Homerism is mental illness, I’m convinced after seeing posters try to defend this.
No matter how low a teams owners, management and players go, there’s just some sports fans out there who will never be able to see anything wrong with the team they root for. There’s probably a lot of sports psych books and essays on it, I’d guess.
Cubbie75
Strike Four, lots of teams do it. No reason for Astros fans to turn on their team just because they’re the ones in the news this week. I’m not saying they should support the practice, but let’s not blow it out of proportion. Yes, the team should be disciplined. No, they’re not “evil” or “trash” for doing what a bunch of other teams are doing but haven’t got caught yet.
iowayanksfan
Not true. Teams do not set up cameras in their outfield wall and one in their dugout hallway to steal signs. Then bang on a trash can or whistle a code to tell the batter what pitch is coming. Under MLB rules and refs, using electronics to steal signs etc is illegal. Check the facts before you accuse other teams because you are wrong
driftcat28 2
This is a story
RetroBeers
When people still use “lol” I have to wonder: are they time travelers from the 1990s with AOL accounts? Are they *really* lol ?
Koamalu
What would you prefer they use? HAHAHA? #laughing? #sarcasm? #stuffit?
MWeller77
Or maybe they’re just contemporary folks because “lol” is still in common use
Cubbie75
everybody still uses lol, even my 15 year old daughter.
TheFixIsIn
My 25 year old daughter LITERALLY SAYS “lol” instead of actually laughing when she thinks something is funny. LOL
Badacidtrip69
but when people *use* asterisks to *emphasize* a *feeling* it’s considered…?
Begamin
lol
Michael Birks
Who cares, this is a baseball thread
MLBTRS
It must be neat to be a part of the “in crowd”.
StandUpGuy
This team is gonna have to lose draft picks, international $ and get fined after all the nonsense they pulled this season. Can you imagine how bad it would have been for baseball if the Astros actually won the WS this year? I think this is the beginning of the end for this regime. I bet they don’t make it to another World Series until most of these players have moved on to other teams and that’s going to take awhile. I can also see all this deterring free agents from wanting to sign there.
Oxford Karma
There is an actual story written about it above. So, I guess it’s a story.
NellieFox
Only Astro fans think this is a non-story.
GreenandGold
This is BAD
fisk72
Umm……yeah…..no.
CrewBrew
Wow! this team is nothing but cheaters and terrible front office personnel
texas_slim85
LMAO!
NewYorkSoxFan
MLB’s version of the Patriots… Loaded with talent and still cheating.
baseballpun
I’m no Patriots fan but the Patriots have won a hell of a lot more than the Astros.
Strike Four
Over the last 4-5 years, sure its a fair comp. There’s no current team comparable to the Patriots if you want to go back 20 years like that. Nitpicky.
HalosHeavenJJ
Exactly. With zero concern about character from the top down. Funny how a feel good story (both won their first largely to acclaim) turns sour so quickly.
hiflew
Between all the cheating and losing half their championship appearances, I think we have the makings of MLB’s version of the New England Patriots.
That would make Justin Verlander the Tom Brady of MLB. I think it fits.
CrewBrew
Well Brady actually does well in the Championship games. Verlander is hot garbage come World Series time
johnrealtime
Hot garbage is a big exaggeration
Ry.the.Stunner
He’s 0-6 with a 5.68 ERA in World Series games. That’s hot garbage if I’ve ever heard of it.
RedSox4Life4ever
Not even close
hiflew
One of the best athletes in his sport married to one of the most famous supermodels on the planet. Sure not even close.
jleve618
I’ve seen worse comparisons.
Setzer
Watch this – twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1194348775965437952?s=1…
It’s pretty obvious.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
Love me some Jomboy. Thank goodness mlb recognized he’s good for their brand, and didn’t cease and desist since they have some asinine view on consumption of their media.
jdgoat
I remember when they shut down Dodgerfilms. Sad day.
genre99
Dodgerfilms was so great.
Shutting it down was akin to when ownership were against broadcasting games on the radio because they thought people would not come to the park.
99socalfrc
I love what he said about Hinch too.
Hinch didn’t impress me one bit in his post game presser after Game 7. He was a big a-hole to the press when asked about not bringing in Cole.
Dear AJ- Maybe if you hadn’t bled out 5 runs in 2 2/3 innings using 5 pitchers while leaving Cole on the pine you wouldn’t be getting asked that. He should’ve owned that one and instead he pretty much talked down on the reporters.
genre99
Zack was dealing. 80 pitch count.
wearnest
This. The mistake was removing a Greinke. He was cruising. He threw one bad pitch to their best hitter and Rendon hit a HR. He then got squeezed by the plate ump while pitching around Soto, judiciously walked him, and here comes AJ. Greinke could have finished the game, or at least gotten through the 8th, then you go to Cole for the win.
VegasSDfan
Looks obvious. One question, where’s the sound coming from? Clearly the players knew about it.
zippytms
In the article they said that they would bang on a trash can in the tunnel where a monitor was located. Farquhar said it sounded like banging on a bat rack or a trash can. Sure sounds like a plastic trash can to me. Someone posted the youtube video of the raw game and it stands out loud and clear, so it’s not like Jomboy is messing with the levels here.
Mystery Team
Jomboy is the man.
themaven
Caught red handed,nothing else to say.Can’t defend that.
julyn82001
Go A’s!!!!
One Bite Hotdog
love this. not even an A’s fan
Drifter2479
Wondering how many more games the Astros won because of the sign stealing. If it contributed to 10 games then yeah, the A’s are right there for the division!
ksbywaino
Unfortunately, this is one of many consequences of technological use in baseball. Of course, it serves a great purpose in developing players and all that, but there will always be a threat of misusing it.
Strike Four
The entire American experience is centered around misused surveillance right now, why would baseball be any different?
bigdaddyhacks
Shocker.
JayRyder
Fines. Draft Picks, Are coming.
genre99
LA Dodgers 2017 WS Champions
BlueSkyLA
Have to admit that was my first thought. Shall we cut to the instant replay?
wearnest
Not so much.
jdgoat
The joke that is the Houston Astros keeps on growing
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Whichever team gives Cole $300 million had better hope he brings his pine tar.
lsujedi
not sure how this ties into the Athletic article, but fyi literally every single professional baseball player uses pine tar. Crawl out of your mom’s basement and check out the game once in a while.
ludafish
Most players even like the pitcher using pine tar a bit since it leads to better control…and you know not getting hit in the face with 97mph heat.
coldbeer
You know if the Yankees are whining about something that there’s hell to pay. ALL YEAR Boone and Gardner were yelling at every ump they could, banging away at the dugout and cursing guys out like preteens throwing a fit!
Some things will never change.
MoRivera 1999
Because umps suck. Every single one of those calls was garbage. The umps suck.
MoRivera 1999
Did the Sox issue a statement when they got caught stealing signs with an Apple iWatch? Which you lyingly tried to turn into the Yankees getting caught?? Typical Sox fan.
Rallyshirt
If you asked me a week ago about the Gardner bat-banging, I would say it was childish and inappropriate behavior. But now? What if some perceptive players know this signalling is going on and his bat-banging is some sort of protest because the umps know too? Dun, dun, dun…
ForestCobraAL
Is Jose Altuve really a $30 million per year midget utility guy?
dynamite drop in monty
Is Jose Altuve really just CGI?
newtzb0ss
Midget Utility guy?
One Bite Hotdog
yeah, let’s throw a few more derogatory terms in the buddy.
highplainsdriftr
What’s wrong with being a utility guy?
wearnest
No, he’s a sure fire first ballot HOF 2nd baseman. Take a look at his hit totals and career BA. He’s one of the all-time greats.
retire21
HOF?!
Not yet.
rct
First ballot HOF? Not yet, buddy. He’s been as good as Dale Murphy right now, and you know how that has turned out.
Les Schraeder
I find it humorous and ironic that the MLB channel goes overboard to promote this organization. Even today I got the feeling that Brian Kenny was trying to twist this into a no big deal scenario. I hope that Manfred will have the guts to come down hard on the organization. It tarnishes the integrity of the game.
dynamite drop in monty
You’re right!
lsujedi
its because despite Fiers being butthurt about being left out of the WS and getting cut, this is no rare thing. Every team in baseball does this to some extent. And everyone inside the game knows it. The headline readers get all in a huff, but for people who know anything, its more shocking that a guy broke the code among teammates, former and current, about revealing private, and btw contractually confidential, details.
Rallyshirt
Right now Europe, Japan and Korea are waking up to this world-wide news.
iowayanksfan
But it IS illegal to steal signs electronically according to MLB rules and regs. Read them. It is clearly stated. there is one thing about a player on the base stealing signs but setting up cameras etc is illegal. Now MLB has to get off their butts and do something. When they fined Boston for using the smart watches, it was no big deal. the organization was fined. if they take the money out of the players salaries, every player, and then skip the team over for a draft pic, then that would be a start.
Allen Adams
They should have blamed it on the PANTS on FIERS!
Drifter2479
Based on what information? If you “know” another organization is cheating I’m sure MLB would love to hear it.
Badacidtrip69
“broke code” is already a problem you’re refusing to acknowledge. is Fiers out of baseball for the interview he gave? will he be shunned by the league for his statements? hardly. baseball traditionalists associate purity and integrity with the game. that’s all we hear nowadays in its marketing ploys. overly sensitive pitchers vs eccentric, celebratory bat flips. this evidence/story directly contradicts the upstanding “pure” image of the game. it’s not something fans should have to accept and i feel sorry for the consumer who anxiously eats up a poisoned product as “normal”. if this is legitimate and front offices actually added contractual obligation‘s of players with incentive laden binding forcing them to cheat or stay silent, you are not considering the real problem. If you see violence on the street do you casually ignore it as “the world we live in“ or do you have any ounce or morality in fighting the good fight? awareness is knowledge but to remain stagnant is utterly lazy and deserves to be extradited from this game
howiet
Every player that changes teams lets his new team know about what his former team does and their signs. That’s why everyone changes their signs so often.
njbirdsfan
I’m sure people like Fiers are willing to risk their reputations making claims with zero evidence.
seamaholic 2
I’ll eat my hat if this turns out to be the only method they have of transmitting a signal to the batters. Trash can my behind. I’ll bet anything they have receivers in helmets now. Easiest thing in the world to design.
canocorn
I’d like to hear Astros hitters who benefitted from stealing signs admit to it. Everyone in the Astros dugout must have known what was going on.
Badacidtrip69
beltran publically stated he was unaware it was going on. lies or truth..?
tim815
Take first or second day draft picks away, and this stops in a hurry.
If there’s no punishment, then it’s being accepted.
MoRivera 1999
First or second? First AND second.
throwinched10
This is a bad look!
pplama
Snitches get….well 2 year $14.1mil contracts actually.
Nice job by Danny Farq sniffing that out in-game.
Cam
This is bad. The Astros have taken some huge PR hits recently, but this one looks to be worth more than just a frown and telling off.
The mass exodus of Assistants and all sorts from the Front Office a little while ago is starting to make more sense. There’s big culture issues going on.
MoRivera 1999
Totally takes the shine off that Series victory. TOTALLY.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
“We haven’t done anything wrong. If people want to make their own conclusions based on what little evidence there is out there — really just rumors, speculations and accusations without any names behind it — that’s their prerogative.”
Fact Check: Mike Fiers and Danny Farquhar do have names.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Not to mention one has a first-hand account and the other has a video that appears to corroborate his story. Seems more than “little evidence”.
jaysfansince1977
Just for clarification but are those comments from an earlier accusation, and this is a newwer more up to date accusation?
Steve Adams
Those were Luhnow’s comments during the ALCS.
Today, his comments effectively amounted to: “No comment.”
Priggs89
“I’m not concerned because I know how we behave and how we act. We’re not doing anything wrong.”
And now everybody knows.
Yes, he was talking about this year’s ALCS with this comment, but nobody with a brain is going to believe him after the 2017 claims are proven true… They certainly have not earned the benefit of the doubt.
bkbk
The real story is going to ironically be if they can tie it to Lunlows knowledge given the Cardinal scandal. If they can find a smoking gun the bigger rest is that the Astros are forced to clean house on their elite exec suite.
stretch123
Cheating and still didn’t win the World Series lol
Hope they lose a ton of draft picks if proven guilty.
Priggs89
They did win in 2017…
Eatdust666
He meant 2019.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I’d like to know how widespread it is. I’m hoping the league uses the video and the results of their investigation to make an example of the Astros. It’s gamesmanship when a baserunner steals signs, cheating when anyone else does or when tech is involved.
swinging wood
Make then 2020 postseason ineligible. The only way this type of BS will stop is if the punishment has teeth.
With that said, I’d be shocked if they get more than a slap on the wrist fine. Society today has no capacity for punishing large and/or successful organizations. Look at the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. No jail time for any bankers involved – so what do you think is happening today? Everyone is acting in good faith? Lol.
SheaGoodbye
I think there will be fines, suspensions and a loss of draft picks.
And even then the punishment will not be strong enough.
The Astros have a world series and a ton of regular-season wins under their belt. I’m sure they would not trade that for whatever the punishment would ultimately be.
Postseason ineligibility or a vacation/wiping of their world series would likely do the trick, but there’s a zero percent chance either happens. In other words, expect this type of cheating to continue moving forward, but perhaps in less obvious ways.
howiet
Antone-couldn’t agree more. 2020 postseason ban. GM and Manager suspended for 2020. First two draft picks gone. International money gone for 2020.
This HAS to stop and TEETH to penalties is only way it’s gonna stop. MLB has been BRUTAL about policing this stuff for 25-30 years.
Rallyshirt
You’re just handing out vacations.
macstruts
They are thieves. They stole from fans, owners and players. Wins cost millions of dollars, they stole wins. This is disgusting.
flabbit
Strip their WS title
MoRivera 1999
THIS! Give it to the Dodgers!!
MoRivera 1999
Altuve probably got his HR off Chapman by a stolen sign!
bigdaddyhacks
Nobody is looking for a slider high and away.
MoRivera 1999
Unless they know it’s going to be there. Then that’s exactly what they’re looking for.
ludafish
He saw that one coming a mile a way. I did too. It was also pretty flat.
Look up “Foolish Baseball Chapman Rivera” he does a whole video how Chapman should have blown the 2016 series for the Cubs but didn’t, and how the legend Rivera blew 2001.
In it he shows you what to worry about when Chapman doesn’t have it. And in that inning and that AB to Altuve he nails it.
Now I’m not saying they never cheated in that series. But Altuve was sitting slider for sure and one came in pretty flat.
Priggs89
I’m sure the Dodgers would find a way to choke it away before receiving it.
SheaGoodbye
Or just wipe it from history. That would at least be something.
wearnest
That’s the only way the Dodgers will EVER win a WS. Bunch of losers. The Nats must have had Kershaw’s signs, too.
mpwr2
They should be fined $5 million and lose a 2nd round draft choice
Good Guys
I think the Astros would happily accept that punishment. That’s a small price in exchange for a world series.
sacball
That Jomboy Youtube video pretty much seals their fate.
2012orioles
Was looking for a shoutout for him
clubber_lang84
This is just the media trying to ruin the image of the Astros. They can’t beat them so they release an article about sign stealing in the League and decide to single out the Astros in the headlines? Lmao the whole league does this crap. Funny this comes out at the beginning of free agency
macstruts
How are people in the clubhouse getting this information? This is not something to do about nothing. If this is true, and it appears it is, this is a big deal.
This is a baseball team that is using technology to cheat.
teufelshunde4
Astro’s seem intent upon burning their own image down to the ground.
Media doesnt play the game, and last time I checked, Astro’s just got heads handed to them 4 times at Minute Maid to lose the WS to a 93 win team.
Astro’s couldn’t beat a guy who couldn’t life his right arm 3 days before.
Im so Fing happy they got Osuna
amk3510
The Astros had an employee mock female reporters, they saw a DV situation as a roster upgrade, blacklisted a reporter because Verlander didn’t like him and the GM had to be convinced not to sign Luke Heimlich. They are a terrible organization and its on themselves not the media. And im pretty sure its been 2 seasons in a row they did not hold up the trophy so someone did beat them. 0-7 at home in the WS and last years LCS so guess their sign stealing machine broke.
bigdaddyhacks
Or they knew the heat was coming and abandoned it in a hurry.
MoRivera 1999
@clubber_lang84
The whole league does it? No, just the Astros and the Sox. Pedey thinks it’s funny. And you tried to pin it on the Yanks, lying sack fo Sox crap.
BlueSkyLA
If you boys don’t behave we’ll have to separate you.
SheaGoodbye
Here we go again with the tired “The MSM always lies” narrative. Maybe try to be a little more creative with your blathering, yeah?
iowayanksfan
In the MLB rules and regs it is clearly stated that stealing signs electronically is ILLEGAL.. the whole league does NOT do this crap. if they did then the Os and the Jays would be contenders. And former players would be coming forward like the ex Astros are.
joew
IIRC the Astros also “hacked” (note the quotes) the St. Louis system for scouting info or something of that sort. I like the astros well enough but seems they got a trail of getting caught….
Even if other teams do it.. they don’t get caught that often…
Priggs89
You don’t recall correctly… The exact opposite happened.
joew
right, thanks for the correction!
Priggs89
No problem. Cheating (in some form or another) is clearly widespread in baseball. They’re going to need to impose some pretty serious penalties to potentially make a difference.
MysteryWhiteBoy
Obviously, it will be very hard to take any statements coming from The Astros organization seriously. How much of an investigation needs to happen if the monitor was in the tunnel of the dugout.
That video is some seriously damning evidence. I mean what other conclusion can be made after watching that.
rocky7
Well, we can only guess that AJ Hinch was complicit in his knowledge of what was happening for which he has denied knowledge in public which should make him accountable by MLB….guess he thought all that whistling was for the pretty girls in the third row, and the garbage can banging was the clubhouse staff getting rid of varmints at the stadium…..Here’s hoping MLB will take that sh_t eating grim off of Hinch’s face for his denial. Guess what Hinch, the Jokes on you!
MoRivera 1999
Hinch should be BANNED from baseball.
MysteryWhiteBoy
It will be interesting to see how they handle Hinch. This couldn’t have possibly gone on without his knowledge, which would make him at the least complicit..
Chris4Sale74
yessir, he should be.
MysteryWhiteBoy
The smugness of the way hinch and Luhnow go about their business is disgusting.
I love how now it’s not appropriate to comment yet in the ALCS it was all we’re the victim blah blah, no evidence,
nickyfives
Eddie Guerrero style, If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying”
dirkg
ah, so *that’s* why the Angels pitchers got hit so hard in Houston. Right??? I blame the trash can.
Norm Chouinard
Cardinals must be secretly smiling.
pjmcnu
Luhnow is an arrogant dirtbag, leading a front office of arrogant dirtbags. After they lied about that reporter’s story, got caught, and only slowly & reluctantly admitted they lied & slandered her, I don’t know why anyone would trust a word out of the Astros. MLB should come down as hard on them as they did on the guy who stole their algorithms.
crazylarry
Didn’t realize Belicheat and Brady moved South and changed sports.
southpaw2153
Stealing signs and they still couldn’t win more than 1 WS, and Roberts managed the Dodgers out of that one in 2017. Astros are a very unlikable team. Cheaters.
Astros window for winning/cheating is closing quickly, what with Cole’s likely departure and the other 2 pitchers in their rotation that are 55 years old.
MIKE_FIERS_IS_A_RAT
Whether they did it or not doesn’t take away from the fact that…. MIKE FIERS IS A RAT!!!
MysteryWhiteBoy
good takeaway pal. Glad that the current MLB dynasty has been cheating for 3 seasons
MoRivera 1999
We’ve got an inmate on the comment board.
Allen Adams
They should have blamed it on the PANTS on FIERS!
2012orioles
Trevor Bauer may be right as well
Polish Hammer
He most certainly was, stealing signals and cheating on the bump to get that spin rate up.
MoRivera 1999
No way Verlander goes from a 3.86 ERA to 1.46 overnight without it.
CFAP
Computer hacking… Crime. This stuff…nothing. Mike Fiers…big cat
MooreLongo
Ask Tyler Glasnow if Astros steals signal. It was the signature of game 5 between Rays and Astros last October
boo rad
Meh… he was asked. When there is a difference between a pitcher’s windup from fastball vs. other pitches, that’s called tipping, which is a tell. Repeated mechanics is taught in little league. That was on Glasnow. Strasburg said it best… “started shaking my glove”.
ChiSoxCity
The Astros aren’t the only team cheating. The Yankees are well know for stealing signs via elaborate electronic systems and spies stationed around the stadium. It’s how batting averages spike 100 points after guys get traded to the Yankees, then nosedive when they leave. The easiest way you can tell when the Yankees are cheating by looking up game stats of opposing starting pitchers at Yankee stadium. Guys who’ve been virtually unhittable all season long roll into Yankee stadium and get absolutely crushed and pulled from the game by the 1st or 2nd inning. Then said pitcher faces them at home and puts on a clinic against the same Yankees lineup. The Red Sox and Dodgers cheat too, but it’s tolerated by the league.
MoRivera 1999
TOTALLY fabricated b.s. It was the RED SOX using an Applie iWatch. This comment is unfounded, unsubstantiated biased bullcrap from “The Astros” to “the league.”
“It’s how batting averages spike 100 points after guys get traded to the Yankees, then nosedive when they leave.”
Let’s see your dissertation facts on this on ChiSox homey.
Get your facts straight you turd.
Longboarder
Horse••••.
southbeachbully
@ChiSoxCity
“The Yankees are well know for stealing signs via elaborate electronic systems and spies stationed around the stadium. It’s how batting averages spike 100 points after guys get traded to the Yankees, then nosedive when they leave.”
I guess it’s so easy to make things up and not have to prove anything. If the Yanks were doing something “widely known” then I guarantee you the most hated team in baseball outside of NY would be talked about and become one of the hugest stories in baseball. Stop with the bull. At least sort a few articles of such.
Show me these players who were nothing, came to NY and were the benefit of tech cheating, left and returned to nothing.
Was it Luke Voit?
2019 Home OPS of .739 with 7 homers vs a road OPS of .961 with 14 homers
Was it Gio Urshela?
2019 Home OPS of .873 with 6 homers vs a road OPS of .902 with 13 homers
Was it MIke Tauchman?
2019 Home OPS of .807 with 7 homers vs a road OPS of .915 with 6 homers
Oh wait…. You said FORMER Yankees who were nothing, became something and left to return to being a nothing?
I trust your word to spot a cheater. You ARE the fan of the only team to be busted for fixing a world series. Please. snitch on these Yankee no gooders.
ChiSoxCity
You guys are dopes if you think I’m making this up. Rumors of the Yankees elaborate cheating have been around for decades. Also, look up the stats from last year like I said. Pick a top 10 pitcher and see how they performed against the Yankees or Red Sox on the road. Heck, look at the Yankees’ offensive splits. They cheat, just like the Astros and several other teams. That’s the American way I guess. People cheat to get ahead here.
iowayanksfan
Rumors?? There is PROOF of the Astros cheating electronically. There is no way the Yankees have cheated. they havent won a WS in 10 years. some cheating. And this season they were more worried about who was hurt to be able to play.
southbeachbully
@ChiSoxCity
You must be an amazing dodge ball player. The way you slipped past things like….facts.. I asked you to reference in detail the cheating the Yanks as a team have done that you said is well known. You dodged that. You said look at the top 10 pitchers that go to Yankee Stadium and see the difference (they must be cheating) is your take. Lazy and you show no proof. I bet that there are some that did better and some that didn’t. Biut…
Verlander had a no decision 6IP w/ 3 runs allowed in April 8 Won a game going 7 IP w/ 3 runs on June 23.
Cole won in a 7 IP w/ 3 run game on April 9.
Greinke, then with the Dbacks, won a game in April where he went 7.2 IP and only allowed 1 and then lost July 23rd and went 5 IP w/.2 runs allowed.
So those 3 didn’t seem particularly bothered going against a team that hit over 300 homers in a very friendly hitters park.
**Heck, look at the Yankees’ offensive splits.”**
Well let’s take a look buddy:
2019 home OPS of .809 with 1 homer per 20 AB vs a road OPS of .846 with 1 homer per 20 AB. So it’s an even split in terms of HR rate but a lower OPS at home vs on the road. So if the Yanks ARE cheating, then they’re doing a horrible job at it.
So to sum it up, you’re once again talking out your butt and nothing you said bears out when you actually look at the facts.
Astros however?
2019 home OPS of .878 and 1 per 21 AB vs a road OPS of .819 with 1 homer per 24 AB. So we can see that they are a much better hitting team and hit homers at a higher rate at home.
As a Yankee fan it’s hard to make excuses so I won;t but in 2017 the WS champs lost every road game and won every home game. If they indeed were using tech for a home advantage vs the Yanks then it’s possible they won because they cheated. That is a travesty and they should join the Black Sox and branded as losers who needed a tech advantage to win.
Houston scored 15 runs at hone and only 5 at Yankee Stadium. Seems very interesting to me. Cole, Verlander and cheating seems to be what they needed to win.
boo rad
Interesting take…
Here are some additional facts.
Astros 2017:
Wins: home 48, road 53
HR: home 115, road 123
HR per/AB: home 23.48, road 23.65
AVG: home .279, road .284
OBP: home .340, road .351
SLG: home .472, road .483
OPS: home .812, road .834
Yankees 2017:
Wins: home 51, road 40
HR: home 140, road 101
HR per/AB: home 19.30, road 28.63
AVG: home .265, road .258
OBP: home .343, road .334
SLG: home .474, road .421
OPS: home .817, road .755
Oddly enough, 2017 Yankees splits are actually larger than the 2019 Astros.
southbeachbully
@boo rad
Yanks aren’t the ones accused of cheating. Your point?
boo rad
By use of 2019 stats justifying doubtless cheating by the Astros while attempting to absolve any possibility the Yankees might have cheated appears hypocritical.
Using the same logic with 2017 splits, actual time period in question, changes the narrative landscape regardless of whether or not the Yankees have been accused. In fact, that data points more towards the Yankees than the Astros. How does one explain the Astros having all around better numbers on the road? Did the organization plant centerfield cameras ~20 other ballparks that year? Known for being the most technology advanced, was hacking involved?
In all actuality, I’m of the opinion that the Astros did in fact break an unwritten rule of using advanced technology in order to increase chances of winning. However, there are definitely some interesting questions that deserve at least a moments thought. For instance, if the Astros had this technology, why would it not be used throughout the entire game? Why does the video only indicate use against Farquhar during the Gattis at bat? The same question holds true for the other ~3 at bats that have also surfaced. Though a couple where 0-2 counts where less than stellar breaking balls were thrown, but that’s neither here nor there.
After seeing the 2019 data, curiosity was sparked leading to the 2017 data that I found fascinating due to accusations.
What did the pot say to the kettle? S’up!
Rallyshirt
Yordan Alvarez ROY, could this be stripped?
MoRivera 1999
Let’s hope so. Stros need to be torn a new one and reamed with a red hot poker. And the Sox should be up next. Nats may be the only team to win the WS legitimately since 2016.
macstruts
He hit 77 points higher at home. OPS+ 155 points higher at home.
Suspicious.
2012orioles
John Means would win!
Koamalu
No. MLB changed the rules in 2019 so that all feeds in the stadium were on a delay. There is no real time advantage possible this season.
In 2018 they moved all monitors that could receive a live feed into the clubhouse. They were no longer allowed in the tunnel or near the dugout.
After 2017 this was not possible.
In 2017 the Astros hit better on the road where this was also not possible than they did at home..
Rallyshirt
Unfortunately Koamalu, anyone with a smart phone is more intelligent than to fall for that.
You’re talking about changes to keep-up with the wolves, not stop them.
After some thought, all I can invent here is an electronic device to communicate between catcher and pitcher. But why play that game, when you can just take out the wolves?
Koamalu
You can’t have a smart phone in the dugout. Not even a smart watch. All in stadium feeds are now delayed 8 seconds. You can’t use those to signal pitches in real time.
People have been stealing signs since I was playing. You can’t stop sign stealing. It is not even against the rules.
All you can do is stop the use of game cameras and electronics. MLB has effectively stopped that.
So if they are still stealing your signs after the rule changes since the Red Sox were busted with a smart watch in the dugout in 2017 then your team needs to get better at changing them up. Its on you today.
Rallyshirt
Nobody’s saying stealing signs or tells isn’t part of the game. But there’s literally no end to the manipulation of the actual rules with current and future technology. It’s time to wake up.
The only way legitimacy returns is with the strictest, most terrifying punishments.
Show Me Your Tatis
You never played.a game in your life.
Rallyshirt
Actually, I played football in high school against Mike Alstott.
southbeachbully
@Koamalu
You have no idea what they’re doing. They aren’t playing by the rules. They could still have a video cam hidden in CF and it can be transmitted outside the feed of the televised game. Of course they are benefiting from it. Why else would they do it? This seems like less of a debate about “did they do it” and more of a “are they still doing it” question. And they may not have done it every single home game but we don’t know when they did it. Not sure it’s a coincidence that in the 2017 AL pennant series they won every home game and lost ever road. On the road, the Yanks pretty much shut them down and only allowed 5 runs. At home the Stros scored 15. That’s not odd to you?
sufferforsnakes
I’ve always said that the Astros cheated against the Tribe in the playoffs. How else do you explain some of the best starting pitchers in baseball being beaten to death by Astros hitters?
Everything the Astros have done is tainted.
MoRivera 1999
Agreed. Makes me think of Altuve’s HR off Chapman, too.
Stros will go down in infamy.
indiansfan44
The thing that I always loved was they destroyed the Indians and our pitching and were beating up on Boston pretty good in game 1 before they were investigated and slapped on the wrist by MLB. As soon as that story came out and they had to stop that guy taking pictures to “make sure the other team wasn’t cheating” they magically lost 4 in a row.
themaven
Yessiree they got fined $500,000 for having an employee in the camera bay filming the Tribe’s dugout with his smartphone.Slap on the wrist considering they won the championship
braveshomer
“if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying!”….get some knowledge from the greats everyone who know how to beat the system to win lol!….don’t you all act high and mighty now even tho most lie to get out of work, or bend the rules to get those bonuses and awards…bwhahaha who cares?!?!
MoRivera 1999
Let me let you in on a secret. Some of us don’t.
Just because you’re a cheater doesn’t mean the Stros cheating doesn’t matter. It does. They stole the WS!.
Rallyshirt
you forgot to close with
Sincerely,
The Devil
MoRivera 1999
THIS ^^^
Theme song: “Sympathy for the Devil”
macstruts
Really, so it’s ok to be thief. You’re stealing outs and wins from players, fans, and owners.
Yeah, nothing wrong there.
I’m thrilled my mind can’t justify this is OK. I’m glad I have some kind of moral center. You should get one sometime.
99socalfrc
Baseball needs to come down hard on the Astros for this. I hate how MLB says they will “open an investigation” and “we will question those involved”. All the while these dudes on the internet needed all of 30 minutes to find video proof of what was going on.
What more do you need? Open and shut case
jb19
I love this accusation, player in the dugout is looking at a camera (no mention after two years btw), then relays to another player in the dugout, who then bangs on a trash can (or whistles) to player in the box all between pitches. Y’all realize how stupid and implausible this is? Oh wait, this is the comment board on the internet… Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinals were all caught cheating. FO person went to jail even, yet, Astros (two years later btw) are being accused, yet again, for cheating… also Indians pitching is over rated, that’s why the Astros owned them in the brief October ALCS 2018 series. Bunch of whiny p***ies, GTFOH.
Melchez
Remember when the Yankees complained because Kenny Rogers was using pine tar? They had no problem when he used it when he was a Yankee.
southbeachbully
@Melchez
There’s not comparison to between 1 individual cheating vs cheating where an entire offensive lineup benefits.
And you mentioned it earlier, when have the Yanks as a team been caught in the last 3 years because I guarantee you that would be big news if they had.
JoeBrady
I’ll bash the Yankees on general principle, but Rogers is not close to electronic spying. I expect players to glance at the catchers glove if they can, and to cut in front of a fielder, or steal signs from 2nd. Once you start with the electronic spying, it really isn’t much different than hacking someone else’s computer.
swinging wood
This is a brilliant defensive post. Like a toddler that gets caught stealing cookies.
Bruin1012
Lol
jb19
Ok buddy, good response. I point out Yankees, Red Sox and Cardinals all caught cheating within the past 3 years and you call me a toddler. I can tell you’re a super smart guy.
swinging wood
I called you a toddler because you clearly have no control of your emotions.
jb19
Nothing but reason and logic in my post. You seem fixated on the last sentence. Didn’t intend to hurt your feelings.
iowayanksfan
not like a toddler getting caught because that only affects the toddler. one person. this cheating affects hundreds of players.
Priggs89
Found an Astros fan.
dirkg
Implausible? You could literally take your cell phone out in center field and flip facetime a dude in the dugout. A former Astro (Fiers) came clean on it and theres video evidence of it (Farquar). I dont think any of us are stupid enough to believe the Stros are alone in cheating, but their recent success and a starting trend of rules bending is shining the light brighter.
Melchez
Dang, I was liking the Astros. Now they remind me of the Yankees. What a shame.
Scott Kliesen
Astros doing their best Patriots impersonation.
Longboarder
Draft picks and a huge fine would slow it down.
♪
Where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire.
Plenty of smoke surrounding the Astros at this point.
———-
They’re lucky their best player didn’t give them the finger and try out for another team, after refusing a tryout because of his size. He had to beg them.
MarkTwain60
Each Houston player since at lea st 2017 knew of the camera and the noise made by a smashing trashcan. It seems every member of the coaching staff knew and approved of the video sign stealing. The GM and his staff likely knew, maybe the owner did not know.. I would think this is the worst scandal in MLB. Opposing players and managers careers ware denigrated; cheaters made new contracts on the Astros; and the organization won a World Series.
The only question is did Jim Crane know? Every member of the Astros rosters from 2017 to present should be suspended for 5 years, except those who provide truthful testimony under deposition to MLB of Astros perfidy. The coaching staff, manager, IT staff, GM and his direct subordinates should be banned from MLB for life. Nolan Ryan should be tossed from the HOF for being management’s version of Pete Rose and banned from baseball.
If the cheating knew no bounds( blackmail, threats or whatever) terminate the franchise.
swinging wood
I think the 1919 Black Sox scandal still has this beat.
BlueSkyLA
Wait for it. If this turns out to be as bad as it sounds, it will be every bit as damaging to the game as the Black Sox scandal was 100 years ago. We should remember, that was a cheating scandal too, and it resulted in the creation of the commissioner of baseball to clean up the game’s reputation.
Rallyshirt
His name was Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis.
BlueSkyLA
Indeed it was. I have to wonder if we’ve become so accustomed to cheaters everywhere that we won’t have a similar reaction to this scandal and expect the same response to it as fans did 100 years ago. If I hear another person say “they all do it,” I swear I will slug them, and I’ve never slugged anybody.
Rallyshirt
That’s the thing about history and tradition. You can stray, but never get away from it.
I know I’ve said some goofball things on this site, but this event is not one New York Times best seller, it’s probably 20.
Organizational level. It threatens everything. I just watched Rick Hahn in a brief press conference during the meetings, kindly avoiding a question about free agency plans. He handled himself well, but boy he looks white as a ghost.
BlueSkyLA
Well if that’s a goofball thing then I’m a goofball too, because I agree completely. Trying not to get ahead of what we actually know but it sure looks like a deeply rotten situation with the potential to damage the game even more than the steroids scandals. That produced a lot of asterisks but this could do even more harm.
Rallyshirt
I agree. On a macro-level all sports have individual rule-breakers, but this?
This is brazen. I find it almost poetic it’s the White Sox vs. Astros. Like there’s some redeeming quality to it, to rectify for the past. Lots of ways to look at it. And of all people, Danny Farquhar who stepped into coaching after an in-game brain aneurysm.
There’s been a lot of brazen going on for the past several decades. If the league has no power to strike this down and crush the temptation, then what’s the point? The fans, TV contracts and sponsors will drop off.
What scares me the most is millions of little kids being told it’s okay.
BlueSkyLA
Probably shouldn’t take the discussion in a direction that doesn’t have much to do with baseball, but yes, I agree, I worry overall about how dishonesty is being rationalized in our culture and how it’s being explained to kids. We are caught in a values warp where getting caught cheating is the real sin, and even if you are caught cheating, cynical excuses seem to count for something. The worst of these is the projection “but everybody does it.” Which, of course, they don’t.
Rallyshirt
It’s time for Evan Gattis to come clean.
bigdaddyhacks
I hate the Astros more than most, but that seems a bit much. I don’t know what mlb should do. But heavy fines. Draft pick looses and a complete coaching staff change. You cannot leave that regime in place they are all complicit.
Priggs89
I agree. The only way to handle this is to terminate the franchise. Anything else just wouldn’t be sufficient.
southbeachbully
@MarkTwain60
A little extreme dude. My guess is that Nolan Ryan would be against anyone stealing a pitchers signs.
Show Me Your Tatis
If you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’
madmanTX
Take away their World Series win, break up the franchise and burn Minute Maid down to the ground so the homeless in downtown Houston can move back in.
Rallyshirt
Minute Maid Corporation could take their sponsorship and their money back?
Allen Adams
It could revert back to Enron Field…
Rallyshirt
Oh boy, they going down.
seatownsavage
I 100% believe MLB has given preferential treatment to Houston since they moved to the AL. I’ll be surprised if they get any type of severe punishment.
csamson11
What do you all think would be appropriate punishment? I’m guessing a fine in the millions and at least their top 2 picks taken, if not even 3 or 4.
Rallyshirt
Heads will roll
– Manager and coaching staff, possibly GM. All fired.
– Sponsors won’t stay
– Players must testify to knowledge of the infractions
– $$ won’t matter after all this
If it’s only a fine and some picks, and a “we’ll get better at stopping it” from the league, baseball loses more fans at the worst possible time.
BlueSkyLA
That depends on how extensive the practice was, and that will depend on the investigation. If the Astros are found to have been cheating during postseason play, stripping them of their titles should be only the start. Fines, even large ones, and docking them draft picks, would be a joke.
csamson11
Just to point it out, I was saying what I’m guessing will happen. I just don’t see MLB stripping a World Series title over stealing of signs. I’m interested to see if they can determine how long its been going on as well.
BlueSkyLA
It’s too early to say but the punishment should be based on when, where, who, and how much, none of which we know right now. If a team is found to have cheated in the postseason it would be stain on the game to allow them to keep their titles.
SheaGoodbye
The way the Astros front office is run seems so familiar to me, almost as if another administration is run in a similar dirtbag fashion…
Before I get off-topic, there needs to be significant consequences for this type of cheating. Of course, there probably won’t be.
Do we really think that MLB did not realize this type of thing was going on, or at the very least that teams weren’t looking to try and leverage technology for such purposes? Whether through negligence or simply not caring enough, MLB has not even attempted to address what was an inevitable issue. And we know Manfred only cares about one thing: $$$. The integrity of the game means nothing to him.
The Astros should have their world series victory wiped from history; anything short of that would not be enough of a deterrent. Realistically though, the strongest punishment I could see happening would be fines, suspensions and the loss of a handful of draft picks.
In other words, look forward to more cheating in the future, which is nothing new in sports. It’s all about optics for them: they pretend to do something about cheating, but in reality are doing far less than they could if it was actually a priority.
Good Guys
Lifetime bans for all involved!
sundevil86
I was getting ready to say I was impressed with Astros fans for not downplaying it or trying to place blame elsewhere, but jb19 went ahead and ruined that.
Koamalu
The Astros hit better on the road than at home, so if they were stealing signs and not just trying to get into the head of the opposing team, then it didn’t help them.
This is much ado about nothing.
themaven
With the technology available today and a nearly unlimited budget to buy state of the art equipment do you really think anything is stopping a team from electronically stealing signs on the road?
TradeAcuna
How long before they catch Toronto, Cardinals, and the Dodgers?
BlueSkyLA
The view from LA is they thought something fishy was going with Houston even before the 2017 series. So was Darvish “tipping his pitches” as the Astros later claimed, or were they stealing signs using illegal means?
latimes.com/sports/story/2019-11-12/andrew-friedma…
Allen Adams
Yuli was signaling Darvish pitches with his eye gestures…
dark vengeance
Let’s see they suspended George for what he did to Winfield. They are keeping Rose out of baseball for lying and betting on baseball probably even betting against his team but I can’t share to that but it makes sense as to why he has not been allowed back in. Steroids were cheating but MLB looked the other way as did all teams until Congress came in and got involved. Even now people still try to get away with using. The Braves had prospects stripped from them a few years ago for I’m sorry I forgot the reason off the top of my head some one please slap the back of my head so I can spit out the reason, the Cardinals got caught with internetgate over the astros. The Red Sox got caught with the iwatch.
In all of these things never has a team had a championship or title been taken away. What should happen is simple when the investigation is over and presumably the Astros are found guilty they should receive a healthy fine lose say the top 3 draft positions for the next 3-5 years including any compensatory picks or just losing the right to using a QO on any player for the same 3-5 year period. Their payroll cannot be more than that of the average of the lowest ten teams in the league so they will be forced to trade off some quality players. They cannot recoup any teams top 20 ranked minor league players in those trades. They must fire their GM, Manager, Coaches etc. who are all suspended for twenty years to life and cannot own, manage, coach or play for any affiliation of any MLB team.
If the owner is found to have had knowledge he must sell the team back to MLB for what he paid for it. That would put an end to any type of this happening ever again. Imagine the Steinbrenner’s having to sell the Yankees back to MLB for what they paid for it back in the 70’s no profits from sale. Or any team for that matter. And I am a Yankees fan when I say that.
ludafish
The Braves were making illegal deals with young international players (mostly Latin) by telling them to wait a certain time to sign to give them more money (as they would not go over their pool) or over paying a nobody and having them pay the other players to wait. MLB voided nine contracts because if they were signed correctly the Braves would be FIVE times over the pool and punished severely. The GM was banned for life. It was a pretty big deal. They cant sign Latin players till 2021 or something
prov356
I’m not an Astros fan. Although this is blatant cheating, the hitter still has to hit the ball. I agree there should be serious sanctions for any cheating, including this. But I don’t necessarily see this as a game or series changer, as evidenced by the World Champion Nationals.
The stuff going on today is so much more serious than anything Pete Rose did. Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.
wordonthestreet
Phi447 sure they still have to hit the ball but they have a better chance at hitting it if they know what pitch is coming. Afterall that is why they are cheating. To get an advantage from the pitcher who is trying to not let them hit it. That is why the pitcher throws different pitches.
prov356
Word – I agree hitters have a better chance if they know what pitch is coming. I suppose one hit from a stolen sign can affect a game or series. My point, not so clearly made, is that it’s hard to quantify the benefit gained from the act. My inclusion of Rose was to say that based on what I know about the Rose story, what he did is less egregious than what’s going on today with PEDs and now this controversy, among others.
wordonthestreet
Also Pete Rose to the hall of fame argument is valid in my opinion but it is just separate. You cannot really fairly argue that until Rose is in the hall that cheating should be allowed. You did not really say that I understand but you implied MLB has bigger issues to worry about. But I think MLB needs to worry about all the issues and address them all.
BlueSkyLA
This reasoning reminds me of the old WC Fields line, “I don’t object to nine aces in one deck. But when a man lays down five aces in one hand… and besides, I know what I dealt him!”
jleve618
I know right? They lost every home game.
its_happening
Glad Fiers came out quickly and didn’t wait a couple years to make this claim.
wordonthestreet
Good point. Why now? Interesting.
Johhos
If allegations are proven true, there should be serious repercussions. Loss of top draft picks, fines, 1 to 2 year suspensions , and a cut in the luxury tax ceiling for the team , meaning additional fines if they go over , should all be in play. Might not stop the winning for a few years, but force them to play with a short deck for awhile .
wordonthestreet
Interesting ideas Johhos
TheLawAbides
What I don’t get is if the pitcher thinks they’re stealing signs and signaling with something he obviously hears, throw inside hit a guy
dimelotitony
ONe has to see now what the commissioner will do about this in having Houston Astros investigate yet on their own how can you take this process seriously when this isn’t the first time their hands were caught in the cookie jar. Boston, Cleveland,Yankees, A’s, White Sox, Detroit all teams that have reported “funny stuff” by the AStros you have an employee taking pictures, you have the banging from the bullpen to the Train Operator reportedly relaying the info back to the dugout. You have the Astros that literally accused the reporter of being a blatant lier only to blow up in their faces when others came forward. You now have an ex.teammate in Mike Fiers admitting to what had happened during the championship banner year.
These are all signs of the Astros going above and beyond to be a sports figure team at all costs no matter if the integrity of the game is damaged. Manfred has to lay down the gauntlet with at least a $5 million fine, loss of draft picks and should suspend the GM & manager or ban them a year from participating in the playoffs.
Baseball has been around for many years and cheating has occurred in stealing signs, spiking the ball etc but to start using employees and electronics is laughing at the face of the commissioner with their arrogance.
Glad the Fiers came out and told the truth now the Onus falls on Manfred let’s see what his next step will be if he doesnt come hard on a repeat offender (Astros) then he is a joke.
luckyh
Fiers, what a guy. What took you so long buddy?
BlueSkyLA
Everybody from the batboy up through the players, coaches and management and maybe even ownership must have known all about this scam, and all of them got on board and stayed on board until somebody blew the whistle. Blaming the person who actually had the courage to step forward is blaming the wrong person. Fashionable though that may be now, it’s still wrong.
luckyh
Years?
BlueSkyLA
Seconds. minutes, hours, days, months or years, you are still picking on exactly the wrong person.
luckyh
Courage?? LOL Just as lame as his wanting to keep guys from losing their jobs. Keep swigging that Kool Aid. I am not saying what the Stros did was right, but this guy sounds like a joke. Enjoy!
BlueSkyLA
A response completely empty of logic or meaning.
luckyh
Yes yours is. Fiers could be in on the impeachment inquiry with his soap box worthy idiotic statement, either side really. Carry on.
BlueSkyLA
I’ll explain this again for the people who care (you obviously not being one of them). Probably at least a hundred people either planned, implemented, took advantage, or just plain knew about this cheating. Only one had enough of a conscience to know it was wrong and speak up. Whether you think this required courage or not is irrelevant to the fact that everyone else involved is a total moral coward. But you shooting the messenger does go to show why people don’t show more courage in such situations.
luckyh
Not shooting the messenger, just questioning his motives. I don’t think there is any place for this in the game. I say that as a Red Sox fan. I did not say it was okay when they did it, and I am not saying that now. You can buy his “looking out for the young guys”, I do not.
“
BlueSkyLA
Shooting the messenger is exactly what you did. You should be a lot less interested in trying to discover a motive for someone who is telling the truth than in the truth they are telling. I am sick and tired of hearing people say, “it might be true, but ____.” Fill in that blank with cynicism du jour, usually an attack on the person who is telling the truth. Very fashionable these days but still very wrong.
luckyh
Seriously? You believe the bs he’s doing it for the kids. That Kool Aid must be tasty. They were his words not mine I was questioning. You are hilarious.
BlueSkyLA
Seriously. Your cynicism reflects only on you, and does not alter any facts.
Rallyshirt
According to the article, Fiers informed teams following his term with the Astros about what they do to cheat. This is normal human behavior, stemming from a system where cheating is out of control.
You could ask, why did those team’s managers and ownership not do anything at the time they became aware of Fiers’ allegations?
BlueSkyLA
Good question. Because they couldn’t prove it? Because they reported it to the commissioner and he took no action? We’ll find out eventually I suspect. This cat is out of the bag now. Why it didn’t escape sooner might be of some interest but very likely it isn’t the main event. The LA Times article I linked here fills in some of those details incidentally. It should really have been a part of this reporting. The Dodgers strongly suspected the Astros were stealing signs but it is less clear that they knew any of the details or if they complained to the commissioner about it.
Rallyshirt
I’ll be definitely reading that, thank you.
It seems at a glance, the reputation for the Astros tactics was spreading to other teams. Instead of putting a stop to it, teams tried to fight it by deploying their own protective measures.
This could suggest a lack of evidence (not any more), or a scandal that goes even higher up the ladder!
citizen
This article is a misnomer. Banging on a garbage can is not the use of technology.
Priggs89
I can’t tell if this is a serious comment..?
iowayanksfan
Not true. Teams do not set up cameras in their outfield wall and one in their dugout hallway to steal signs. Then bang on a trash can or whistle a code to tell the batter what pitch is coming. Under MLB rules and refs, using electronics to steal signs etc is illegal. Check the facts before you accuse other teams because you are wrong .
Rallyshirt
Correct. They only do this at Minute Maid and Joel Osteen. Alleluia!
madruto
Everyone on here talking about using video cameras to steal signs is pretty funny, when every team has a tablet in the dugout showing videos of pitch sequences from pitchers to specific hitters. I am sure the video shows the signs from the catcher too so everyone has the same advantage
Rallyshirt
It’s a little different when doing it in real time. The problem is, the delay feed is inadequate and there’s no way to stop technology loopholes unless a punishment is delivered in force.
Sorry Houston, you are going down.
BlueSkyLA
We can only hope so, but we’re getting at least a sniff of this being a wider issue and addressing it will call for more than just making an example out of the Astros. Either way MLB will have to do a lot more than that if they hope to get ahead of this issue. If cheating takes over the game the way steroids did then the game is in big trouble.
Rallyshirt
The power of the fans:
youtube.com/watch?v=B8GexITkwhg
I recommend headphones, NSFW, and remember the 1st Amendment.
Koamalu
The tablet has no wifi or LTE connectivity. The only videos on there are of past games, not real time feeds..
iowayanksfan
It’s not funny. It is illegal by MLB rules and refs to use electronics to steal signs etc Totally different than old videos of pitch sequences.
pasha2k
After the Redsox got fined, were the NYY fined???????
iowayanksfan
No. Because the Yankees didn’t cheat. The games they were accused of cheating on they lost.
Priggs89
That doesn’t mean they weren’t cheating…
Even if they were though, they didn’t get caught.
Rallyshirt
Do you think there aren’t people in Houston looking through footage to find incriminating evidence of other teams cheating at this very moment?
AtlSoxFan
I saw reference to the NYY paying an undisclosed fine for improper use of a camera in one of the many articles out there. The particular one I was thinking of started with the apple watch incident as the baseline for heightened mlb penalties being on notice, then mentioned the red sox retaliatory claim (and NY fine) followed by evidence of astros purportedly doing wrong later that same season.
boo rad
Thought Yankees were fined for illegal use of bullpen phones.
AtlSoxFan
@boo
I think you may be right.
There was a fine for something, and it was dismissed as “relatively” minor in the grand scheme of things.
Personally I rate the apple watch as worse than the bullpen phone. 1) the watch wasn’t supposed to be there, then 2) it was used for the improper purpose.
Yankees may have cheated too, but, at least they only used the phones that were meant to me talked on between pen and dugout anyways.
(And that’s from a red sox fan)
dimelotitony
For those stating that technology was not used then how was the timing of Gattis everytime a changup or offspeed was about to happen? Some are stating no electronics were used just a banging sound of a garbage can so you are telling me they had strings attached with cups that led to the dugout to relay the signs from the catcher in the outfield without the use of a technology?
Look the fact is this is not the first time that Houston has done this it also is not just one team reporting this or an isolated issue its multiple teams that have stated the same thing from the banging of a noise to suspicious people with a camera relaying info.
Those will point to say well Houston lost all its games at home in the World Series do you not think they wanted to cheat but knew the microscope was very high on them and everyone was going to be looking for them to exploit that advantage?
The problem with all this is Manfred issued a statement prior after Houston was caught the first time there will be severe punishment and to do so suddenly against the Dodgers in the World Series and again against the Yankees in this playoffs speaks arrogance and Manfred needs to come down harder on them.
There are; those that want to say Fiers is a Rat but if he knew what was going on you telling me Altuve,Bregman, manager, gm & owner didn’t know?
Also when there was no banging did Houston’s offense not look ordinary especially there star players without that extra advantage with men on base?
citizen
But the gnats broke the unwritten rule of arguing during the world series and getting their manager tossed during a game. where is their fine?
AtlSoxFan
Arguing with an ump isn’t cheating?
lowtalker1
What if Cora and Beltran were the two indeed behind this if it were really a thing and not a butt hurt dude on the as
TradeAcuna
Well, that is why the Sox were on their toes last year. Cora new the Astros were cheating.
TradeAcuna
* knew.
The Astros have gone through a lot in the last 2 months or so. Looks like it is the end of them.
jdgoat
Honestly that’s an intriguing point. I wonder if they got their pitchers to switch up the signs a lot last year in that series knowing this was happening.
lowtalker1
Time to start investigations in the 2018 bosox
macstruts
Absolutely. The Black Sox were not permanently suspended until after the next season.
If they have proof that they cheated, then yes, heads should role. If Cora is involved in cheating and covering up cheating in both 2017 and 2018, he should be kicked out of baseball.
lowtalker1
There is no way they were the dominate without cheating. They steamed through the season in 2018.
desertbull
The Houston Asterisks
spencer99
They need to drop this. It’s over. They aren’t gonna do it again now that they’ve been caught. Move on
macstruts
Huh? So don’t punish anyone who gets caught cheating?
jdgoat
*murderer caught murdering*
You’re free to go as long as you pinky swear not to do this again.
rocky7
They didn’t stop the first time they were advised this wouldn’t be tolerated by Manfred and MLB…so why would they stop now unless you strictly and forcefully enforce a penalty that makes them hurt.
macstruts
“consider levying long suspensions” to those who are found to have lied during the interview process.
Well this opens up the AL West, I’m not sure how the Astros are going to field a team. I wonder if Cole has been interviewed. He may want to sign as soon as possible.
bad bruce
If found guilty what is a realistic punishment? Loss of draft picks, fines, less spending for international pools?
IMO, suspend Hinch for a year just like the NFL suspended Sean Peyton.
macstruts
I’m all for suspending players and coaches and managers who lied during the interview process.
lowtalker1
Dodgers still lost the World Series both times even with Cora and hinch doing the same stuff
GothamNeedsMe
Curious how other clubs might distance themselves from those involved. I.e Cora and Beltran.
Show Me Your Tatis
They should change their name to the Houston Asterisks.
lowtalker1
The way the bosox were dominate in 2018 screams they used similar techniques to get an advantage
GothamNeedsMe
So any team who wins 100+ are cheaters? Come on.
ScottCFA
If the Astros are found guilty, give them the 1919 Black Sox treatment. Commissioner Kenesaw Mountain Landis banned for life eight ballplayers, including potential Hall of Famer Shoeless Joe Jackson. It may seem harsh, but that’s how you stop shenanigans in the future and restore integrity to the game. Suspensions and fines won’t stop cheating when there are tens of millions of dollars at stake. Turning major leaguers into high school baseball coaches will change behavior.
Polish Hammer
They got caught cheating in the playoffs against Cleveland and claimed they were filming their bench to make sure they weren’t stealing the Astros signs. Great to be proactive and use the best offense is a good defense tactic.
Polish Hammer
Also ironic that a trashy organization would use a trash can to send signals. And to bang on a trash can so loud the batter would hear it out on the field yet nobody in the dugout would notice it if it wasn’t their cheating routine? There’s just no defense of this.
Dorothy_Mantooth
If I recall correctly, the Astros went from the team with the most strikeouts in 2016, to the team with the fewest strikeouts (and most HRs) in 2017. Anyone think this sign stealing had something to do with that? Batters sit on the fastball and adjust to the off speed pitch..often looking foolish. But if you know an off speed pitch is coming, you can sit on it and hammer it out of the park. They should lose draft picks over this for sure!
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Wasn’t 2017 also the year that Darvish had a difficult time in the series because he was tipping his pitches? Impossible to not think it’s related to these allegations.
macstruts
I’m not after the players. The players didn’t put a camera in CF. The players did not put a TV in the clubhouse.
If the players are honest now and tell the truth, then I’m fine with no suspensions. But if they lie about it, and cover it up, they should suffer long suspensions.
Let’s get to the truth. Red Sox, Yankees, Astros and anyone else.
ChiSoxCity
The Yankees have been doing this for decades.
Phiilies2020
MLB needs to set a firm example. Take their 1st rd pick in the 2020 amateur draft and 3mil in international spending money.
That’s still probably not enough of a punishment, but because this goes on more in baseball than the average fan might think I don’t think they’ll crucify them.
ScottCFA
Five year ban on signing free agents other than their own players.
JR1953
Houston and Boston are similar organizations, who will use technology illegally to win. We can only hope Houston is strongly punished and someone like AJ Hinch is suspended for a long time this action.
As a Yankee fan, it will be nice to see a suspended Hinch and his dugout of cheaters whistling a different tune.
GothamNeedsMe
Bold statement from a NY fan who have been caught cheating numerous times in different aspects.
Psychguy
Another instance of Boston related involvement in cheating. What a surprise.
GothamNeedsMe
This one wasn’t Boston…Cora involved but this isn’t Boston. You silly goose.
JR1953
Understood this one isn’t Boston – Genius!!
Boston was the Apple Watch also in 2017. – A different instance and different managers and Yes – Alex Cora was in Houston. – then. They still hired another cheater to manage the always cheating Red Sox. BYE!
GothamNeedsMe
LOL says the pre-teen “BYE”??? Well said.
I’m not denying the Sox didn’t get busted…they did. But Cora’s involvement in 2017 has nothing to do with Boston now.
Calm down guy, so angry.
jjd002
You don’t think Cora took it with him? Think logically
GothamNeedsMe
I’ll keep thinking logically, you think without making assumptions.
Rallyshirt
Management and Staff
Luhnow – Fired/Banned from baseball
AJ Hinch – Fired/Banned
Alex Cora (yep)- Fired/Banned
Dave Hudgens – Fired/Banned
Alonzo Powell – Fired/Banned
Rich Dauer – Fired/Banned
Gary Pettis – Fired/Banned
Carlos Beltran (yessir) – Fired/Banned
As many of you know already, Gattis isn’t the only guy caught doing this. It’s rampant.
Players
All players associated with 2017 Astros suspended for one year without pay.
Psychguy
Not sure I agree with your end game, but any effort to make people accountable for their actions in this word is alright by me.
Rallyshirt
The only question I have about this is whether to come down on the Astros pitching staff and coaches. I mean, the evidence points to their batting and top down management, but the pitchers might have a case to claim innocence. Murky, as their situations while used are being manipulated, but still. Astros pitchers might get a lesser penalty.
Gmen777
This isn’t gonna happen lol. I’m far from an Astro supporter (in fact if this is true I think it’s be safe to say they’re the dirtiest organization in the game when you also factor in the Cardinal scandal a few years ago) but there’s just zero chance they do that
Rallyshirt
Alex Cora could be an interesting story in this. He could claim he left the Astros organization because of the cheating, but I don’t think it helps him much in the courthouse. Maybe he saves some face in the public eye, but it could be interesting.
Carlos Beltran, I had to take a little bit of time with this (about 10 mins). He denies knowledge and takes a management position with Mets. He would now have to admit knowledge, and that folks is a Fired/Banned. So Beltran really goes down in media flames, while everyone else is slightly less ostracized.
Mario93
Houston Astros should be moved to Montreal to bring back the Expos. There.. it’s settled.
its_happening
That would be a massive punishment.
FishyHalo
Now you can clearly place an asterisk on their 2017 World Series.
If MLB proves systemic cheating that went on, year round, they should vacate the Astros Division and league championships.
Anybody who lies to the mlb investigators should be banned for life.
dimelotitony
So much for applauding the Houston Astros organization is the best well run operation from last to first and 2 World Series appearances in last 3 years. This puts a stain on MLB and now the onus is on Manfred to set an example because again this is not the 1st,2nd or 3rd time Houston has been caught it has been several times numerous teams have warned MLB and they had ignored the accusations but now that a former player has told the truth nothing short of a suspension of Hinch & GM shoiuld be warranted especially Hinch and his smart remark when the Yankees complained, Boston complained, Indiances complained he deserves to be suspended.
I see Manfred doing the same like Goodell did to the Patriots heavy fine, loss of picks and like Sean Payton suspended for a year to send a message.
Houston’s arrogance is disgraceful and disgusting and their star players showed with the exception of Altuve whom has always been humble even in winning the Bregman’s & Correa’s attitude and arrogance is why so many fans were rooting for Washington Nationals to win the World Series.
Now another story came out from C.Smith another former Astro during that time as well stating that the bullpen catcher is in on the signs as well.
dirkg
In college the bench guys were tasked with decoding the 3rd base coach signs as well as catcher tendencies (i.e. second sign) with runners on base. For 100 years, catchers have been mixing up their signs. It’s part of baseball gamesmanship. Using cameras for real time cheating is not just anti gamesmanship, it’s illegal in the sport. The added fact here is that the first 3 names associated with this cheating (Hinch/Stros, Cora, and Beltran), include the winning WS manager in 2017, the winning WS manager in 2018, and the newly minted manager of the Mets. This could get ugly.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Manfried doesn’t have the balls to suspend anyone for this. Fines YES, draft pick(s) Maybe, but he will claim this happened in 2017 before he warned teams of stiffer penalties for cheating.
With that said, it looks really bad that the World Champs did this. IF they are able to prove this continued into 2018 & 2019 then that is a completely different story and suspensions could be handed out.
Rallyshirt
In no way does Manfred allow a team to suit up that gets booed with stuff thrown on the field every single game.
What are they going to do triple security?
dimelotitony
Manfred should suspend and will have too otherwise baseball is looking at another black eye that will be far worse than the steriod era because in that era you had about 3-4 ball players per team taking some sort of illegal substance.
But using electronics is a whole totally different animal especially how the Houston Astros have used it to an advantage which now taints not only their championship but their division crowns and the reported Best Organization per sports writers and more.
dynamite drop in monty
Cora should be fired ASAP. And I’m a Sox fan.
dimelotitony
Cora won’t be fired Boston will take care of that if he misses the playoffs again. He can also claim he was under directions from his manager as well as GM. I wonder if MLB will offer him immunity or Beltran for the truth because you now have two former players of that year in C.Smith & M.Fiers confirm what was known league wide that Houston has been cheating using electronics to gain that edge and become the talk of all baseball as the best Team ever assembled past few years.
dynamite drop in monty
Would you like a bacon wrapped scallop? I made extra
FishyHalo
Got a handed to those Bostonians they know how to make some good cookin’. Well played sir. Haha
HarveyD82
You got caught, sporto
bobtillman
The Miami Marlins have just purchased two dozen metal trash cans…….
Hit4me
Boom goes the dynamite
gidez1
The Astros are a horrible organization and MLB should come Down hard on these scumbags! Fakest fans in all baseball
braves fan 138
Just saying the Braves got hit hard for something I think most organizations were also doing, granted they were the most brazen about it, but if this is true which idk how it isn’t true with the evidence and first account witnesses; this should end in lost of draft picks for multiple years.
teufelshunde4
GM got banned for life, that was a warning shot for all current & furture GM’s to not pull and tom foolery with International spending caps then be bold enough to lie about to Commish’s office.
Anyone involved in this who lies about their part or covers for others, will likely face the harshest punishment.
braves fan 138
I agree; now there is other news out about them signaling from the bullpen and watching a feed via bullpen camera. That really sucks too because I really like the Astros team but make no mistake this will taint their organization very badly and the punishments will cripple them.
Rallyshirt
When do the sponsors start dropping out, I imagine before Thanksgiving?
junior69
Didn’t help them in the World Series
driftcat28 2
Suspend Hinch and those on his coaching staff and the GM
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
It’s not illegal to steal signs. Why is this news?
jd396
Of course the Mets will find a way to get screwed in this. Beltran gets hired by the Mets and a couple weeks later gets suspended for a year or something.
Stevil
What gets me was the behavior of Gurriel in game 3, 2017. Mocking Darvish the way he did was bad enough, but that’s amplified ten fold knowing what we know now.
Then there’s Hinch, who mocked the Yankees for calling them out in the ALCS this year. From the front office, to the manager, to the players, you have a lack of integrity and class everywhere you look in that organization. Not everyone is guilty, but the organization is tainted.
I really hope MLB drops the hammer on the Astros.
Darkside
A hundred years later and we have another black Sox scandal.
Darkside
The smug Astro hitters should be thrown at, every game, by the entire league next season.
sacball
That new video from the game vs. the Rays w/ Beltran hitting….woooooooof!
Rallyshirt
In a recent interview, I found Buck Showalter did a very nice job differentiating between the work in determining what opposing teams are trying to do, and the use of video cameras. Hesitant to throw players or management under the bus until the investigation concludes, Buck did share about the culture of baseball changing dramatically – that most “new” people in every organization are completely dependent on apps.
its_happening
Showalter is a baseball man. His organizations have improved at each stop, some immediately while others took some time (Texas). Any franchise would be fortunate to have Buck. In fact, he would be the first call I’d make to replace Cherington in Toronto.
Rallyshirt
Interview with Sean Doolittle on the Nats preparations for Astros stealing signs prior to 2019 World Series.
youtube.com/watch?v=1BrvrLLkIbU
Stroman pitching in HOU.
youtube.com/watch?v=JwD4KgrDCpU
Rallyshirt
Here is a young Youtuber who made a video on head and eye movements during catcher signs directed to a person signalling from the Astros bullpen. Also, some splits detailing 5 or 6 players.
youtube.com/watch?v=mi-a6wLXZyM
Psychguy
Damn, if you are gonna cheat, don’t get caught. Astros obviously did not study the Red Sox manual well enough. If found guilty they should be stripped of their WS victory. Only way to make them accountable AND send a message against potential future violators.
larry48
Astro’s cheated, how about rookie of the year he hit good because he knew what was coming . Why does everyone believe the Astros only cheated at home, they may very well have cheated on the road also.
Rallyshirt
Mark Teixeira’s views on the subject:
youtube.com/watch?v=GsRCz6mJ1Tk