On Friday, shortly after he orchestrated the firing of manager Gabe Kapler, Phillies owner John Middleton met with reporters (including Matt Breen of the Philadelphia Inquirer) to discuss the move and what’s ahead for the team. Kapler was only on the job for two years, seasons in which the Phillies came out of the gate well before faltering in the summer months. In the end, Middleton couldn’t get past those late-season meltdowns.
“Those September collapses. I kept bumping up against them,” said Middleton. “I couldn’t get comfortable or confident enough that if I brought him back we wouldn’t run into other problems and therefore I made the decision I did.”
The Phillies went a middling 161-163 under Kapler, but they were a far worse 20-36 during the pair of Septembers in which he oversaw the club. That was clearly enough for Middleton to put an end to Kapler’s tenure with the organization, but it wasn’t the Phils’ owner who selected him in the first place. Rather, general manager Matt Klentak was responsible for the hiring of Klentak, though it doesn’t seem Middleton’s confidence in the exec has wavered.
In assessing Klentak, a fourth-year GM, Middleton stated: “Nobody bats 1.000 in hiring decisions. I haven’t. So it’s early in his career, but I would also point out he’s made lots and lots of really good hiring decisions, too. I think what this should be is a learning experience, candidly. What’s happened in other businesses we’ve run and gotten into this kind of situation, people learn from it.”
Middleton showed plenty of confidence last winter in Klentak, awarding him a three-year extension in the wake of an offseason spending bonanza for the club. With Klentak having brought in the likes of Bryce Harper, J.T. Realmuto, Andrew McCutchen, Jean Segura and David Robertson, Philadelphia expected to push for the playoffs in 2019. But the club stumbled to a mediocre 81-81 record instead, leaving Kapler on the outs and the duo of Klentak and president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail to find a more qualified replacement.
With the Kapler era in the rearview mirror, Philly’s now likely to seek a manager who blends “analytics and tradition,” writes Breen, who suggests longtime MLB skippers Buck Showalter and Joe Girardi are near the head of the team’s list. Showalter, a three-time Manager of the Year who previously helmed the Orioles from 2010-18, goes back a ways with ex-O’s executives Klentak and MacPhail. In fact, it was MacPhail who hired Showalter in Baltimore.
Girardi’s connection to MacPhail isn’t as strong, though he was a catcher with the Cubs from 2000-02 when the latter was in the team’s front office. Since his playing career ended after 2003, Girardi – like Showalter – has established himself as one of the most accomplished managers in recent memory. He earned Manager of the Year honors in his lone season with the Marlins, 2006, and then led Yankees teams that regularly contended from 2008-17. Girardi was atop the ’09 New York club that knocked off Philadelphia in the World Series.
With eight teams currently on the hunt for new managers, it’s no surprise the well-respected Showalter and Girardi have come up quite a bit of late. Showalter is on the Angels’ list of candidates, and he may emerge as a serious possibility for a Mets team that’s set to interview Girardi in a matter of days. Girardi already sat down with the Cubs earlier this week.
Does Maddon make any sense here?
Yes, if he wasn’t an almost lock for the angels I’d say he’s a perfect fit.
Why is he a perfect fit? Is he that great of a manager? Yes, he’s won in Tampa and Chicago, but was he responsible for it? Tampa has continued to roll along, even without his leadership. Perhaps it has more to do with the talent system they have, rather than the guy in the dugout.
Overall, a manager is not going to turn a bad team into a good one over a long season…his influence is more or less impactful in shorter series. However, a bad manager can ruin a good team in more significant ways, such as Kapler.
No body is a “lock” until they are hired.
I gotta believe Maddon would interested in this gig. It’s a stone’s throw from his hometown, it’s the NL and it’s a team on the cusp of success. What’s not to like?
sure hope he’s thinking like you think he is.
Maddon still has his house in Orange County. I think it’s irrelevant that the Phillies are close to his home town. Many thought Trout would hold out for the Phillies for the same reason and look how that turned out.
In all reports I have read, Maddon has made it clear that he wants to skipper the Angels.
this may be irrelevant but maddon still visits his hometown of hazleton frequently and does a good bit of chatitable work in the area
It’s irrelevant as it relates to him wanting to be the Phillies manager. Him visiting his hometown doesn’t mean he wants to work for the Phillies.
Cousin Eddie’s making a trip west.
Not sure anyone makes sense with Middleton as owner.
Don’t understand why you want to dog one of the few owners who aren’t afraid to actually spend on free agents and truly want to bring a championship to his city.
I’m an O’s fan. The truth is upper management feels like they should be calling the shots – not the CEOs/owners above them who, while smart, are not baseball people. Historically it has bred instability and caused intraorganizational resentment. I see this situation as headed the same way.
My take on Middleton’s behavior presently is that he is trying to move the club forward using a more modern analytical approach to building rosters and on field tactical moves. He is being told this is the way to success. So he builds a staff that supposedly knows about such things. It hasn’t produced the results that are to be expected for the money that has been spent, but hesitant to just give up on the new approach completely, he tweaks the staff with a new on field tactician and give this all another chance.
Now these analytics guys stick together like glue, and Middleton has to be the one to make the move. I’m sure he is disappointed in Klentak’s reluctance to do what was obviously necessary, but he doesn’t want to implode the entire new approach, so it’s easier to pull rank, do what’s needed and move forward also serving a warning shot off Klentak’s bow.
I expect Middleton to be the one deciding on the next manager. He’ll want a known good part to add to the machine that he is essentially troubleshooting. Then if that doesn’t improve performance, he’s narrowed it down to the remaining parts.
Middleton spends money and is not afraid to shake things up. He wants to win and he puts his money where his mouth is. Sounds like a good owner to me.
just like all the talk hosts who want to tread on Middleton because he put McPhail in place. he knows what he is doing, and is much more knowledgeable about who to put his faith in than most owners.
Middleton is born and raised in Philadelphia. He’s a philly fan so he connects with the fan base. That’s huge as an owner. Yes I think he should trust his FO a little more, but I like that he wants to be more involved.
did klentak hire himself?
Lol
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the manager really matters in the Phillies situation as it stands. It’s talent level, they need a couple good starters, 3rd base, and bullpen needs help as well. And I think unless a couple of players from the minors break out Klentak and or Mcphail should be shown the door as well.
Well, the last two seasons they started out great but collapsed. How much of that was Kapler? I really don’t know. But after 2 seasons of that happening he had to go.
Yap
@Who_Farted;
A Manager – and his coaching staff – make a big difference.
But you are right about that roster. It is primarily veterans, most over the hill or about to go over the hill. The “rebuild” was terrible. Assuming Kingery plays 2B next year (it appears they’ll let Hernandez go FA) he and Hoskins will be the only 2 regular position players they developed. While pitchers take longer to mature, other then Nola – a true Ace – everyone else is up in the air. Am sure some will succeed, but that can be said of any 2nd division team. Then we look to the farm system, and that’s pretty much bare.
So what’s left is the owner spending gobs of money in free agency. Am sure there are endless articles and comments about to begin as to how the Phillies will sign Rendon or Donaldson, as they need a 3B. The “All we need to do is sign Gerrit Cole” manta has started here – which fans from over a dozen other cities are also chanting in unison.
A team has to develop and improve its players at the ML level. A veteran Manager with a quality coaching staff can do that. But one commonality – building a Dream Team by throwing money at free agents without having a quality core in place doesn’t work. Look at the Yankees under George Steinbrenner where he did that for 20 years and didn’t win squat. He finally succeeded when he allowed his FO to step back and do a rebuild, Unfortunately for Phils fans, they just came out of a rebuild. They would have been better off developing a few decent prospects and making some smart trades. In short – Klentak and his FO are the problem.
the team is not the sum of its parts. while the pitching is bad, Kapler mismanaged the little talent there was there, while making a should-have-been strength in the hitting into a total joke by starting guys like Brad Miller and Sean Rodriguez. as a Phillies fan, im more willing to give Klentak a break, especially given he should have learned from his mistakes and reslized he probably has only one last chance if he doesn’t get it right this year.
Gabe and his staff were too analytics driven and overwhelming the players with it. Zach Eflin struggled when they told him to throw his 4 seam fastball up in the zone more because of analytics. But when he went back to throwing his sinker down, like he had before, he went back to having success. I think the talent is there, they just need to tweak the coaching staff and yes, add pitching and upgrade the bench.
“Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think the manager really matters in the Phillies situation as it stands. It’s talent level”
I agree that talent wins baseball games, but look at the talent the Phillies have had under Kapler’s regime, and what they had (and did) beforehand. Kapler was hired for 2018. The 2017 Phillies were awful…but they bottomed out at the All-Star break, and played a respectable 37-38 afterwards, roughly .500 under Pete McKanian. To that team the Phillies have added several talented players, and yet are still a .500 team.
So essentially Kapler and his staff had significantly more talent to work with, and nearly every player either plateaued or regressed, and they were still a .500 team. So yes, a big portion of the on-field issues lie with the staff.
Andy MacPhail did not hire Buck Showalter. Peter Angelos hired Buck Showalter.
Incorrect.
Guess again
Klentak stinks. Arrieta, Hunter, Neshek and Robertson is basically taking 134 million in cash and setting it on fire. Trading Carlos Santana and him immediatly breaking out was awful too.
I’d like to see Arrieta and Santana box. Too bad Santana was ditched for mediocre Hoskins and we have to put up with arrogant Arrieta another year.
Arrietta was paid based on the 2nd half of 15 first half of 16 otherwise hes been a above aberage pitcher but not a bonafide lights out ace
Santana was not a fit and got Segura back, who is on a better contract and plays a more premium position. and again no one could have figured Robertson would immediately implode.
agreed.the santana trade, realmuto trade,robertson signing and harper signing were all good baseball moves. everything id consider questionable at best
the santana trade was actually the best move he made and the worst FA move he made
Pitching wins games. While it has been great to see Harper, Segura and Realmuto do well in red pinstripes, this team needs pitching. Starters and relievers. Now. Not later. Corbin and Keuchel proved to the baseball world they were worth signing. In addition to Kapler being booted, McFail and Klentak should go too.
Segura is 100x better as a second baseman over short.
Huh? I’ve not seen him play 2nd..If they move on from Cesar, then they have a quality 2nd bagger in Scotty Jet Pack
Based on what? That one season with AZ that he played 2B? If anyone is taking over 2B, it’s Scotty.
I think it has more to do with Segura not being a quality shortstop than being a better second baseman.
Girardi or Buck. Cole, Odorizzi, Wheeler in that order. If they miss on Cole… sign those 2 or trade fir Bauer.
Cincinnati acquired Bauer in an effort to compete this coming season. He won’t be traded.
What about this: Hoskins, Williams, Cesar and Medina for Luis Castillo, Sonny Grey and Raisel Iglesias?
i dont think either team makes that trade for multiple reasons but #1 being where would hoskins play in cinci with votto at 1st?
Votto can’t play forever. Hoskins is cheap and young, still lots of promise despite a down year. Don’t get me wrong, I love him and want him to stay but he’s also got the most trade value of anyone, and if that means getting an ace or a couple top rotation guys for him, I’m at least considering it.
Giardi accomplished what? 1 World Series in 10 with an All Star Team and the 1-2 largest payroll. Gimme a break, if they don’t hire Buck it is ridiculous
Hard act to follow behind torre. It takes way more than the largest payroll ever to win the series. They need chemistry more but they also need talent.
Girardi was great in NY. He missed the playoffs in 08, I chalk that up to it being difficult to follow Torre. From 09-12 his teams were in contention and met expectations for the most part (World Series, ALCS, one of the best teams in baseball). 13-16 he exceeded expectations and kept the Yankees in the hunt through September. You’re not going to have success when you’re starting Lyle Overbay, Vernon Wells, Travis Hafner. He navigated the decline of the yanks old guard, and ushered in this new era. Girardi is a great manager and deserves another shot
MOY with Miami. That’s what he did w/o a high payroll.
Yeah, while I’m not confident in Kapler’s ability to lead this team to contention, he is taking more blame than he probably deserves. But this is the case with a lot of managers, I think, particularly in such a results-oriented position. The Phils didn’t lose the division based on Kapler’s 3-4 daily decisions; they lost because the Braves and Nats are simply better. Put Kapler in Atlanta? Yea, they still win the division. On the other side, everyone wants Joe Maddon? Sure, he will generate some buzz and he’s a local guy, but he had a more talented roster in Chicago and couldn’t win this year, so what does that tell you? Over-valuing a baseball manager is nonsense. A monkey could manage that Astros juggernaut to the post season, and no manager on Earth can all of a sudden extract premium talent from mediocre Phillies players. They just were not as good as ATL and WAS, plain and simple. Much more of the blame falls on Klentak for not addressing the glaring weaknesses in the starting rotation. Depth, Depth, Depth. Yanks do it. Astros do it. Dodgers (RIP) do it. Phils don’t.
Watched the press conference yesterday. Those three (Cigar Guy, McPhail and that Ivy League nerd of a GM) were so defensive with their comments (PC is alive and well in the Phillies front office.) that even friendly soft ball questions from the press were treated as though they were the first broadsides of an inquisition.
Double talk abounded as all three tried desperately not to scuff the other’s shoes. If this trident, replete with plain vanilla quotes, is indicative our team’s leadership, it’s gonna be a long time before the City of Philadelphia needs to put forth plans for a march down Broad Street.
To wit, don’t p*ss on my shoes and tell me it’s raining. Very disappointing. Won’t matter who the new manager is so long as leadership (Klentak and his band of analytic nerds.) remains the same.
Give me Sal Fasano.
I was a “Sal’s Pal”!
A system wide shakeup is needed. Starting with the scouting and talent evaluation department.
After wasting millions of dollars on their international talent, result no Latin talent. No Ronald Acuna’s or other 19 year older’s cracking the Phillies lineup. Other teams are finding these guys.
Hire a manager that knows you don’t bat Rhys Hoskins leadoff or don’t hit a pitcher eight when he’s 0 for 28 on the year.
Lets face it these guys are Buck Showalter guys. I don’t expect anybody but him, past history and all that. Boring,but still better than Gabe.
Maddon would be my first choice. #2 Scocia #3Garardi #4 Farrell,but I know its Buck just fits the front office personality. Whoever it is needs a ton of pitching both starting and relievers and a real closer PLEASE. I don’t have faith in Klentak delivering on those needs.