TODAY: The moves are now official, as per the Associated Press. Kluber’s option was exercised, while the Indians bought out Kipnis and Otero.
OCTOBER 2: Indians president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti announced at the beginning of today’s meeting with the media that the team intends to exercise its $17.5MM club option on right-hander Corey Kluber (Twitter link via Ryan Lewis of the Akron Beacon-Journal). The Indians are planning to decline their $16.5MM option on second baseman Jason Kipnis in favor of a $2.5MM buyout, however, and they’ll also decline righty Dan Otero’s $1.5MM option in favor of a $100K buyout.
Although the 2019 season was a disaster for Kluber, it was never plausible that the Indians would move on from the two-time AL Cy Young winner. Kluber’s 2019 season was truncated by a forearm fracture suffered when a comeback line-drive struck him back in May. He missed nearly three months of the season and, when he was nearing a return, sustained an oblique injury that ultimately ended his year.
Even when healthy, Kluber turned in an alarming 5.80 ERA in 35 2/3 innings. However, he was plagued by a lofty .370 average on balls in play and a low 63.8 percent strand rate (career 74.7 percent), both of which seemed due for regression. His average fastball velocity was down a bit from his 2018 totals, but a look at Kluber’s readings through the beginning of May in 2018 reveals a 91.7 mph average fastball that aligns with his 91.6 mph average in 2019. Put another way: there was minimal evidence to suggest that Kluber is suddenly on a decline of this magnitude just one year after his fourth Top 3 Cy Young finish in five seasons.
Perhaps if he’d been due to become a free agent after the 2020 season, the organization would’ve given slightly more consideration to moving on (doubtful), but Kluber’s contract contains an $18MM option for the 2021 season. The Indians have been working to pare back their payroll since the beginning of last offseason, but there’s no realistic scenario in which they shy away from a $16.5MM decision on Kluber — he’d have been owed a $1MM buyout regardless — that comes with a similarly priced option for an additional season.
In the case of Kipnis, the decision was similarly straightforward. Although he briefly ranked among the game’s best second baseman, the now-32-year-old Kipnis (33 on April 3) hasn’t had an above-average season at the plate since 2016. Over his past 1485 plate appearances, he’s managed just a .236/.305/.403 batting line (86 OPS+). Add in the fact that his season ended with a fractured hamate bone that required surgical repair, and Kipnis surely saw the writing on the wall.
Lewis tweets that the team is still open to a reunion with Kipnis at a lower price, but that will depend on the level of interest expressed by other teams. Given the number of second base alternatives both in free agency and on the trade market, it’s quite possible that Kipnis will eventually have to settle for a one-year deal, so perhaps a reunion shouldn’t be ruled out. Kipnis does have a bit of experience in the outfield, which could enhance his appeal to new clubs, but he’s graded out poorly in his limited work away from second base.
It’s similarly unsurprising to see the team move on from Otero, despite the affordable nature of his option. He’ll turn 35 this February and has seen a sharp decline of his own since a brilliant run in 2016-17. Otero gave the Indians 130 2/3 innings of 2.14 ERA ball with a 95-to-19 K/BB ratio and only eight homers allowed in that ’16-’17 peak, but he’s been rocked for a 5.09 ERA with 18 home runs in 88 1/3 innings since that time. Otero still possesses superlative control, as he’s averaged less than one walk per nine innings pitched over the past two seasons, but he’s also seen his sinker dip to an average if 89.5 mph.
As far as the coaching staff is concerned, manager Terry Francona announced that the team has dismissed bullpen coach Scott Atchison but will retain the rest of his staff for the 2020 season (Twitter link via Zack Meisel of The Athletic).
I am glad that the Cleveland Indians will exercise the option of Kluber.
“Even when healthy, Kluber turned in an alarming 5.80 ERA in 35 2/3 innings.”
–
What makes the writer think he was healthy?
The batted ball had not struck his arm yet.
lfrient1;
What makes you think that the batted ball was his only injury?
Healthy or not, Kluber is a notorious slow starter. His Aprils are. alwaysba trainwreck, but he rounds into form when the weather warms up.
Vandals Took the Handles ( great name!) I have not been presented with official, credible evidence that he was injured prior to the broken arm. Can you provide me with official, credible evidence that Kluber was injured this season before breaking his arm? I would appreciate it if you would cited your sources so that other readers could also be enlightened. I say this respectfully, not mean spiritedly.
lfrient1;
LOL
Love the sarcastic indignity.
Do you know that teams often keep injuries quiet unless a player has to go on the injured list? Guys stink for a period of time and suddenly they wind up on the IL. Ever see that happen? Maybe once?
I’ve watched it happen for 60 years, including when I had connections with ML players and Managers.
Do you know that almost all MLB and MilB players play hurt during the year at times. Did you ever hear the phrase – “play through the pain”?
Do you know that there is a players network in which they find out what physical problems a player on an opposing team is having – especially pitchers – and share it with friends on other teams? No different then deGrom tipping his pitches early in 2019 and getting hit until word got back to the Mets coaches. They had to look at film and help him modify his delivery, and suddenly he was pitching lights out again.
Welcome to the adult world.
Ohhh connections with ML players and Managers! Wow!
Welcome to the adult world. Gosh that’s cool!
So no credible evidence he was injured prior to getting hit by a batted ball then?
2016-2018 ERA over 15 starts in April 3.49, not as good as his 2.77 ERA overall for those three seasons, hard to see a 3.49 ERA as a train wreck though…
In 2018 he had an ~2.20 ERA over six starts in March & April.
Basically anyone who struggled we should assume had an undisclosed injury?
Maybe we can’t assume that everyone who struggles was injured, maybe just Kluber.
That is, unless we have had connections with major league managers and players, boast about it on open forums, have watched baseball for more than sixty years, and still avoid providing evidence in Kluber’s case?
I have watched baseball for 58 years but I do not boast about it on an open forum because it means that I am old.
I have no connections with ex ML players.
And I do not have an edge on me for this stuff unless provoked,
Maybe Kluber was just having a bad year before the main injury.
It happens.
I agree. Well stated.
There’s some other guys in that bullpen that need to be dismissed, too.
Nope, the Indians have the best bullpen in all of baseball. I know, I heard Tom Hamilton say it a million times this year.
Best bullpen in all of baseball?
Nah
You missed the sarcasm.
They did until they hit the wall.
Hamilton’s schtick over the past couple of years has grown really old. He was constantly defending Cody Allen as a great closer and basically being an enormous homer all if the time. He even talked up how great Leonys Martin and CarGo were.
Don’t get me wrong – he’s a fun annoincer to listen to, but he’s got to lay off the kissing the rinng of the Indians all of the time and just call it like he sees it.
Agreed. I will give Hamilton credit for being very enthusiastic when the other team makes great plays however. I’ve always respected him do that.
Manning and Underwood are even worse.
He doesn’t like Bauers. It’s fun to listen to.
As strong as the bullpen was during the season there were gaping holes and I agree some others need to be let go/traded.
As for Kipnis I am sooooo the Indians no longer have that contract to deal with. For the production he gave they should be able to find someone to fill in moving forward.
I am a huge Kluber fan but see his option as trade bait for prospects.
Go Tribe!!
I agree with you about Kluber. Saying that they were never going to move on from him is misleading. They were always going to pick up the option because of his track record and like was pointed out little signs of decline. However they looked for trades last year and if the Indians aren’t scared away by the price of the option I am sure that other teams that would want him wouldn’t be either. The worst case scenario here is that they need to cut payroll (again) and you have money you can trade for some MLB ready talent or high end prospects. As much as the Indians love him it would not suprise me if they would trade him before the season started.
As for Kipnis that one is a little harder to figure out because who replaces him? They had to decline the option but there really isn’t anyone who stands out as a major upgrade in the system for him and the free agent market isn’t exactly full of upgrades. There were only 3 second basemen on the free agent list MLB.com posted that had a higher WAR than Kipnis this year. There are a few more options at third and you could move Ramirez back to second but the options there are going to be really expensive or not a huge upgrade either. Plus Ramirez was coming out of that major slump and I’m not sure I would want to move his position again and possibly mess with his bat again. With Nolan Jones and Tyler Freeman at least looking like they need until mid season or 2021 to be ready. it could be another situation where we end up throwing a bunch of young guys at it and hoping someone sticks. With all that I could see them bringing Kipnis back on a much lower deal as a stop gap for the other prospects and veteran leader to help ease in the transition to someone like Chang or Arroyo next year.
Ya, I don’t think we see an All Star at second next year unless we get lucky.
There was an article about the Phils DFA-ing Cesar Hernandez. Not inspiring, but he could fill the hole. Could we trade for Villar from Baltimore? Again, not a world burner, but he’s a professional, major league 2b.
It is also not 100% impossible that we could resign Kipnis for a couple million plus incentives.
How much would it cost to go for Castro?
It feels like Kipnis has been around a lot longer than just 8 seasons. I would guess he’ll get a 1 year deal somewhere.
Duh. One has a history of being a fantastic pitcher! The others never really were good minus a year or two
With an abysmally weak crop of free agent shortstops, could this be the right off-season for the Indians to deal Francisco Lindor?
Cleveland would likely be able to turn him into big-league ready talent as well as a prospect or two (depending on what exactly they’d be looking for in return). Not to mention, if Lindor was traded, the Indians would be creating quite a bit more payroll flexibility for 2020 that could be utilized to address other weaknesses.
I have been wondering the same thing, but remember that the Red Sox are considering trading Xander (or so I am told). I’m assuming that both the Indians and the Sox would want a TON in return, Are there two teams out there that would be willing to pony up? Both teams also would likely want to deal with a National League club.
All this makes me wonder if the Tribe should focus less on bringing in new talent, this year, than trying to win the Central. If Kluber is healthy, and they can sign some sort of outfielder, they will be a very good club.
First off…..
More then half of MLB teams have extremely good SS’s. It’s very probably the best stacked position in MLB.
To trade Lindor for a bundle, you need to find a currently contending team with a load of quality prospects, that has a high payroll…..unless you know of a team that will trade multiple quality youngsters for a guy to play 2-3 years for them. Name some candidate teams. Name one.
Next….
Add Didi to the FA list. It appears that unless he has a great post-season, they’ll move Gleyber to SS and LeMahieu to 2B.
On the other hand, it is not impossible that they could trade Frankie. He certainly would be an upgrade on Swanson in Atlanta. Swanson is good, but he’s not Lindor. The Braves have the minor leaguers to swing the deal, but why would they accept the Indian’s price? My guess is that they would ask for Swanson, one of their top pitching prospects and more. I an see why the Braves might not want to meet that price for two years of Frankie.
The Indians aren’t looking to tear down and rebuild. They want to stay competitive but keep the payroll under control. They could take a package of major league players for Lindor.
If the Dodgers were to off Seager plus Verdugo or Muncy they could probably get Lindor without trading away their prospects.
I don’t think that is true. I think they are looking to either contend for the pennant without spending too much money, or transition to the next phase as quickly and smoothly as possible. I think they are looking for a combination of controllable major league talent and near major league top prospects for Lindor.
BTW, there is no way the Dodgers give us Seager and Verdugo for two years of Lindor. Seager, if memory serves, had an ops this year about 50 or so points off of Frankie and his defense is good. Verdugo had and oblique strain, but as long as he stays healthy, he will be a star for the next five years. We would be fortunate to get those two. The change between Seager and Lindor would be great for the Dodgers, but it is not worth five years of Verdugo.
I don’t think that is true. I think they are looking to either contend for the pennant without spending too much money, or transition to the next phase as quickly and smoothly as possible. I think they are looking for a combination of controllable major league talent and near major league top prospects.
BTW, there is no way the Dodgers give us Seager and Verdugo for two years of Lindor. Seager, if memory serves, had an ops this year about 50 or so points off of Frankie and his defense is good. Check out verdugo’s stats for this year.
Dodgers also have Lux, who is a regular SS playing 2B.
The Dodgers aren’t going to be selling low on Seager, who isn’t an FA until 22, much less adding extra to it in terms of Muncy or Verdugo. As much as I think every baseball fan appreciates and loves Frankie that’s still a simple no. The emergence of not only Lux, but Downs makes the MIF a strength at the MLB level and upper levels. Now if Frankie were a 3B with control or a long term option I’d think they’d be willing to trade some prospects.
The main reason who this deal would never get to the talking phase as far as the Indians front office goes Muncy and Seager are both going to Arbitration when the season is over Seager is a free agent after 2021 and Muncy after 2022, Muncy is a Late Bloomer
The Indians would be after a young player with star upside like a Austin Meadows type play that they would be able to control for at least 5 or 6 years to front line any deal for Lindor and Verdugo could be that guy if the right package is back loaded with top prospects like May. Ruiz others.
But the Indians have no interest in a full-time DH situation they have asked Reyes to loose some weight and get into better shape so he can at least play RF most of the time then you have Mercado, Zimmer ( if he can stay healthy ) and Daniel Johnson here at some point in 2020.
Do not look for the Indians to add anyone this offseason I believe they will fill in with what they have Lindor will not be dealt this offseason Christian Arroyo very well could be the lightning in the bottle guy. he will not be 25 until May and might just be your 2nd baseman next season .
Cardinals…they have plenty to offer in fact here is a trade proposal for ya smart guy. Cards send Dejong, Wong, Bader and Hudson in exchange for Lindor Kluber and a high AA/AAA pitching prospect. That takes two large contracts off the indians books and replaces them with manageable contracts. Cards get a front of the rotation guy to go along with Flaherty Mikolas…. Lindor to short Edman to 2B everyone is happy.. Cards soften payroll a bit buy dumping Dejongs $5m and Wongs $10.5m it also opens up the flood gates for all the log jams in AAA to make MLB contributions without vets losing playing time.
The Indians would not be happy. That deal does not get Lindor alone and especially not adding Kluber and a pitching prospect. Any deal for Lindor would have to include DeJong and Carlson plus pieces. You are not getting Lindor or Lindor, Kluber, and a pitching prospects for a package including players with little or questionable upside.
Indians barely missed the playoffs without Kluber, Bauer, and Carasco for a big chunk of the season. They should consider trading Kluber if someone makes a good offer. They’d have a ton of money available to fill the holes in the pen and outfield.
They should have dealt him last season like he was rumoured to be. The blueprint for successfully ran small market teams is trading away aging stars and or highest paid player for young cheaper players. This means not always winning the trade but in order to sustain success especially in a year where only the twins looked like they were going to be competitive they could have done a better job threading the needle.
I’m not just saying this in hindsight either I posted about this several times last winter.
Indians got pretty unlucky and still nearly made the playoffs, i dunno what other small market team could afford their top 3 starters who were all arguably top 20 SP either miss a huge chunk of the season or be down right terrible still miss out by one game.
I think if the Indians actually move on from Kipnis, Kipnis will probably go to a team like the Nationals, Rangers, Angels, etc, a team that isn’t really in contention but is really close.
The Nationals are in the NLDS so
Kipnis will go to any team that offers him a guaranteed contract. After the last three years he can’t afford to be choosy.
Totally agree. Move on from him.
If the rumors are true in Chicago and the Cubs really move away from Russell at SS and move Baez over too SS they might bring Kipnis home on the cheap on a one year deal to play 2nd base Imo Kipnis ends up with a 1 year deal in the 6 to 8 mil range,
Now we have found the missing link! Scott Atchison’s coaching performance in the bullpen explains why this team collapsed during the final week of the regular season and missed qualifying for the postseason. (Sarcasm intended.)
So the pitching didn’t fall apart down the stretch? Yeah the bats went AWOL too but the pitching was atrocious.
Uninspiring to move on from Otero? Really?!?
I told you guys the Indians wouldn’t make the playoffs without Bauer.
Now stand in that corner and think about what you did…
Based on how Bauer performed down the stretch, it is hard to say that the Indians had a better chance with him.
Who says Bauer’s struggles would have occured if he didn’t have to move to a different team, league and stadium?
The Indians were not making the playoffs with Bauer either so what is your point? Realistic fans realized it would take a miracle to win the division after the start the Indians and Twins went on respectively. The wildcard was still a posibility but the team was too young and had too many holes at the beginning of the year and trading Bauer will help fill them for years.
If they absolutely weren’t making the playoffs with or without Bauer as you say, why did they trade for Yasiel Puig the pending free agent?
That isn’t what I said. I said the division wasn’t going to happen because the twins got off to such a good start and the Indians got off to a poor start and that the wild card was the spot they could possibly achieve.
If you are referring to the first sentence about not making the playoffs with or without Bauer then that is your fault for trying to twist it into something else. Even if Bauer didn’t collapse staying in Cleveland he was essentially replaced with Civale who didn’t give up more than 2 runs until his final start of the season. Pitching wasn’t the problem offense was and trading for Puig and Reyes to help the offense gave them a better chance to win this year and in the future with Reyes still around plus the 2 pitchers they got in return. I honestly believe that if that trade happened before the season so we never had to see Cargo and Hanley Ramirez in the lineup the Indians are still playing today.
Bauer wasn’t the Indians #5 before he was traded. He was their #3. And a strong #3 at that. You don’t replace your #3 in the middle of a playoff push. The fact that the Indians failed to make the playoffs after trading Bauer proved this.
“If you are referring to the first sentence about not making the playoffs with or without Bauer then that is your fault for trying to twist it into something else.”
I’m not twisting anything. “The Indians were not making the playoffs with Bauer either so what is your point?” Those were your words…
Bottom line. They should have gotten more prospects from the Reds instead of Puig because the second they traded Bauer, they knew their season was over.
And I you were told you weren’t welcome around here in Tribe threads. Time to go back to discussing ridiculous trade scenarios and how much of a failure the Padres season has been.
You clearly are twisting it but that is all you ever do. Go back to your padres threads and try to trade Myers and the rest of the cast offs you don’t want for all stars.
@Polish Hammer who died and made you king of anything? And I wasn’t the one making those ridiculous trade suggestions.
@indiansfan44 I’m not twisting anything. You explicitly said “The Indians were not making the playoffs with Bauer either.” And I know no one is interested in trading for Wil Myers and especially not trading All Stars for Wil Myers.
The Tribe fans don’t pollute the Padres threads, so you’re presence is not necessary here either. You might want to stick where you’re welcome, hang out with the lowly Padres fans discussing ridiculous/moronic/impossible trade scenarios and how every other team should take on your garbage like Myers and his absurd contract.
It’s called clearing future payroll obligations. Bauer was gonna cost a ton in arbitration.
@Polish Hammer
1) your*
2) I already said I don’t expect anyone to take Myers unless they eat at least half the contract and/or attack multiple top 100 prospects so what are you talking about?
@sufferfortribe
Now Bauer’s production just has to be replaced. And doing that will cost a LOT more than whatever they would have had to pay him in arbitration.
@sufferfortribe Hyun-Jin Ryu is going to get a lot more $ than Trevor Bauer this offseason so by your logic the Dodgers should have traded him. Regardless of him being their best starter this year.
Bauer showed his @$$ with that 400’ heave over the CF field and his act wore thin with many in the organization. Regardless of price tag his time was up in Cleveland.
1) blame it on autocorrect
2) Padres fans are the most ridiculous here and your insistence of directing what some other team and fan base should be doing is unwelcome.
Adios!
@Polish Hammer
1) According to who was his time up in Cleveland?
2) I think that honor belongs to 2016 Braves fans.
Hola!
That is an absolutely stupid reply, and has no bearing on the point that I was making. That’s two teams whose payrolls bear no similarity.
Why does their payroll matter? You don’t trade a pitcher like Bauer if you are actively trying to contend regardless of what your payroll is.
You do if you have depth of starters, and it brings you back needed outfield pieces. But keep trying.
No, you trade prospects for those outfielders, not your #3 starter.
So YOU keep trying!
sufferfortribe: no sense wasting your time on the village idiot, especially one missing from the Padres village who things he knows what other people should want when his own village is a dumpster fire.
@Polish Hammer hey I was right on the money. I said they wouldn’t make the playoffs without Bauer and they didn’t.
Repeat after me: You don’t trade an established starter in the middle of a playoff race.
Thanks Nostradumbass, way to go out on a limb because it had zero to do with losing a multiple Cy Young winner, a yearly MVP candidate and several other key pieces. Now move along, there has to be some Myers for Trout trade scenarios to discuss.
“The Indians missed 1,085 games by players on the injured list in 2019, ranking 10th in Major League Baseball and trailing only the Yankees (2,064) in the American League.
Despite such a high number of games lost to injury, the club was able to win 93 and contend for a playoff spot down to the final few days of the regular season.
“It’s an incredible story of overcoming adversity,” said president of baseball operations Chris Antonetti. “To think back on 29-30 and we lost a lot of our best players to injuries and a group of guys came together and overcame adversity time and time again to give ourselves a chance to play meaningful games in the second half of the season all the way up until the last few days.”
The Yankees were the only team to qualify for the playoffs with more games lost to injury, while AL Central Division rival Minnesota was the healthiest team in baseball with only 514 games missed.
According to Fangraphs.com’s wins above replacement (WAR) calculations from 2018, the Indians lost more value to the injured list than any team in MLB besides New York. Cleveland missed an estimated 12 wins to the IL, or roughly double that of the average MLB team in 2019.
“We take pride in the way our guys did overcome that adversity,” Antonetti said. “It’s a testament to (manager Terry Francona’s) leadership, our coaches and our player development system because we got a tremendous amount of contributions from our young players and our ultimately our (veteran) players.”
Cleveland’s starting pitching rotation suffered heavy losses as six different contributors missed significant time including Carlos Carrasco (76 games), Mike Clevinger (68) and Corey Kluber (132). Those three starters combined for 25% of the team’s games missed, combining to make just 40 starts in 2019. The same trio made 95 starts in 2018.
Meanwhile, core infielders Jason Kipnis (27 games), Francisco Lindor (19) and Jose Ramirez (26) also took time to recover from injuries suffered at either the beginning or end of the year.”
TL;DR
Again, by your logic, the Dodgers should have traded Hyun-Jin Ryu at the deadline. Why do you think they didn’t?
Kluber is too risky a signing long term. He’s 34 and logged a lot of innings w a lot of elbow and cuff torque on his don’t know what to call it swing and miss pitch. The arm was showing fatigue for last 2 seasons- before the unfortunate batted ball injury. If he wants to come back 1yr for 10=12 mil I think that’s worth taking a chance. If he’s healthy, rested and can get back in top shape, he could pitch for a longer term contract at age 35, but unlikely any front office would want to go more than one and one at that age unless he has a dominant disabled list free year. The Indians need a left handed starter, I would maybe offer Brad Zimmer and Zach Plesac and Adam Plutko to the A’s for A.J. Puk or Jesus Lusardo. A’s have 5 LH pitchers and the Indians have too many LH outfielders. Wonder if Gabe Kapler will interview for the Giants job if Philly runs him out. He might be a good fit, now that he has some experience.
If Kluber wins another Cy Young, can he get into Hall despite his weak counting stats? Playing an entire career with one team will help.
Pump the brakes a bit, we’re just hoping he returns to a high level and not how he looked early season pre-injury.
Tribe won 93 games and attendance was down 180,000 from last season so the payroll will be 5-6 million lower than the 122 million it was this season.
With estimated arbitration awards and guaranteed salaries the 25 man roster payroll would be right around 100-104 million right now,leaving 13-17 million for improvements.
That’s without Danny Salazar or Cody Anderson btw.
Factoring that in I think you’ll see more trades than free agent signings in the Tribes off season.
Who else did the Indians get other than Puig in the Bauer trade?
Reyes, Allen, and Nova.
Don’t forget Scott Moss
Scott Moss was lights out after he was traded here as part of that deal at the minor league level he will be a stud I hope they keep him as a starter.
I think Cleveland goes into sell mode this winter.. Lindor, Kluber, Ramirez, Carrasco and Hand will be wearing new uniforms.
Stop thinking. You’re not very good at it.
Kluber, Carrasco and Ramirez are certainly going nowhere. Hand would be available if they had other back end pieces for the bullpen and they don’t. Lindor is also not going anywhere unless some offer really blows them away.
Wonder if they will re-sign Jason Kipnis. He´s now a free agent. They most likely won´t because they have so many good infielders besides Jason Kipnis but this should be an interesting off-season for the Indians.
I think there is a 0% chance of trading Lindor this offseason, but I think he does get moved between Trade Deadline 2020 and Trade Deadline 2021. I think if Kluber returns to form he gets moved by Trade Deadline 2020. I think Hand gets moved around the Trade Deadline 2020, and Karinchak grabs the reigns as the closer from there.
I am going to miss Jason Kipnis the man, but the player just never really turned into what we thought he’d be. Such a good guy though. I’m going to miss him.
Really hoping they can sign a stopgap 2B/3B to keep the seat warm for Nolan Jones. Aside from that I think it’s going to be a pretty quiet offseason in regards to our Tribe. A lot of smoke but no fire.