We’re continuing with our “Three Needs” series, in which we take a look at the chief issues to be addressed for clubs that have fallen out of contention. We’ve already focused on the Mariners, Tigers, White Sox, Marlins, and Rangers. Now we’ll cover the Pirates, who entered the All-Star break 2.5 games off of the pace in the NL Central before enduring a calamitous second half.
[Pittsburgh Pirates Depth Chart]
1. Market Starling Marte
The appropriate path depends to no small extent upon the market’s appetite for the Pirates’ assets. But it’s time to strongly pursue a sell-side approach to the winter after dabbling and pulling back this summer. That begins with Marte, the team’s excellent center fielder.
True, there isn’t a single standout team in the division, so it’s open to competition. The Pirates still have a good bit of MLB talent and perhaps some room to add salary. But the roster situation is not good. Top starter Jameson Taillon is going to miss most or all of the 2020 campaign. If the despicable allegations against closer Felipe Vazquez can be proven in court, he’ll deservedly spend the next few years in prison rather than pitching. There’s no spending out of this malaise for an organization that hasn’t topped $100MM in Opening Day payroll and opened this season at just $75MM.
Marte stands out as a marketable asset that could bring a strong return that will help this team find its way back to respectability. It’s hard to see a path within the next two seasons, after which he’ll be a free agent. And he’s no longer extremely cheap. But two option years that add up to just $24MM is still a relative bargain for a high-quality regular who is still 31 years of age. That’s especially true given that the upcoming free agent market is lean on center fielders.
2. Re-Think The Rotation
The Pirates have a fair amount of interesting infield and outfield talent at and near the MLB level. Plenty of questions remain to be answered, but that’s just how it goes with young players and low-revenue teams. Even if Marte is sent elsewhere, the club can mostly feel good about rolling with internal options with some affordable supplementation in the lineup.
It’s a different situation on the pitching side of things, especially in the rotation. Mitch Keller could yet be a future ace, and he showed intriguing K/BB numbers this year, but there’s plenty to iron out. Joe Musgrove had a nice year and might form a useful mid-rotation pairing with Trevor Williams if the latter can re-learn how to limit the long ball. Chris Archer … well, who knows, but the team probably can’t give up on him just yet.
Perhaps there’s an argument to be made for the Pirates mostly to remain internal with the staff. But even then, there’s room to add arms. If the Bucs move some Marte and a few others — Keone Kela would be the next-most-obvious candidate — then there’ll be loads of payroll space to work with. Investing in some intriguing bounceback arms could pay big dividends.
Regardless, the Pittsburgh organization needs to go back to the drawing board on its approach. There was a time not long ago when it was extracting big value from limited spending, but the formula isn’t working. (See here for a nice recent breakdown of the situation.) The league has adjusted, clearly, as the Pirates ended the season with a putrid 5.46 collective starter ERA (and that’s including Taillon). We’ve seen a historic barrage of home runs and rather drastic changes in pitching approaches. Such change inherently creates new opportunities for adjustment in the ever-evolving cat-and-mouse game pitchers and hitters. Your move, Bucs.
3. Seek A New Core Catcher
With Francisco Cervelli leaving town, the Bucs need to try to find a replacement. Elias Diaz has had an exceedingly rough season by more or less every measure, with a 61 wRC+ and brutal framing numbers. Jacob Stallings had a much more solid campaign, though the 29-year-old has never before been trusted with a significant role.
It seems fair to presume that one or both of those incumbents will fill innings usefully in 2020. But it’d be disappointing to rely on them as a duo for another full season. Given the pitching turmoil, it’s especially important to have a steadying presence behind the dish. And this could even be an area the Pirates can look to for some upside.
It’s hard to pry loose good, young catchers. But there could be some possibilities. Austin Hedges stands out as a target. He may never fully come around with the bat, but is by any measure a top-flight defender. There’s little reason to think the club will have a shot at top free agent Yasmani Grandal. But Travis d’Arnaud would be an interesting player to take a bit of a risk on with a longer contract. And there are loads of respected veterans out there if a bigger strike can’t be found, including some bounceback candidates such as Yan Gomes (if the Nats don’t pick up his option).
Zach725
1) New Owner
2) New Manager
3) New Front Office
leefieux
All of the above AND what Jeff wrote.
Mendoza Line 215
I like Clint Hurdle and he did a good job in the rebuild but his time has passed.
rusty2489
The Pirates biggest Hurdle is Clint.
dcrising
Seeing how ownership takes much longer, I’d go those 3 just in the opposite order. Huntington should’ve been fired just for the Archer deal
Ejemp2006
It would be nice to have Bonds and Bonilla back in the middle of the order but they never keep their stars.
h0wmyd0ing
They wouldn’t sign Bonilla today because he’s still making $1M a year from the Mets and wouldn’t pay him more than that.
markburgh
New owner or join the international league with this garbage of an organization
mlb1225
The Pirates need to choose a direction. In the last few years, they enter the season as too good to be a tanking team, but not good enough to be a playoff team. Either go all in, or sell mostly anything that isn’t a rookie. Maybe keep around guys like Trevor Williams and Joe Musgrove to see if they can have a bounce back year to rebuild their value.
mlb1225
If they do go all in, sign MadBum, and Dellin Betances, although I highly doubt this will happen.
batty
They can’t/won’t go “all in” with the owner they have. He’d never spend the money to facilitate that direction.
mlb1225
Yea, that’s why I said I highly doubt it happens.
bmcferren
Sources are saying that Cole Tucker is heading to the Diamondbacks for Daulton Varsho plus Russell Martin is heading back to Pittsburgh for 2020
Steven Chinwood
Are those sources located in Ukraine?
bmcferren
Neveraskus is from Lithuanian
Bocephus
Straight quote “Don’t worry be happy”
Mendoza Line 215
Stallings has been the perfect #2 catcher this year.They should not want to lose him.
Tucker is a tough call because I think that he does have a high upside but they do need a young catcher.
Diaz surprised me with how bad he was this year.
Martin would be useful more for his off field pluses.
But the Pirates cannot keep four catchers.
They may have to get a younger catcher,try to get by with the two that they have,and find a bona fide third catcher for AAA.
batty
I think…THINK…the reason none of the 3 needs mentioned were the owner/manager/GM is because it’s just too obvious.
Marte should have been traded last off season, but he still has value in a trade.
They have to stop signing fringe players as a cure to what ails them.
If given a chance, they need to get rid of the Archer and Kela anchors. Sometimes, selling low is out of a necessity and this fits that scenario.
There’s really nothing that can be done with the Vazquez situation, other than flat out releasing him. He’ll be wearing prison orange for quite some time and rightly so. They won’t be taking a hit on money owed to him.
didi gregorious nose
I’ll take marte on the mets we need a true cf marte fits that bill.
mike127
Marte to the Cubs for Caratini and Almora….the two years left on Marte’s deal lines up perfect with the time left on Theo’s contract, Baez, Bryant, etc.
Caratini give the Pirates a solid catcher and Almora gets a much needed change of scenery.
Marte gives the Cubs the fill for the desperate hole in center field and gulp, might be able to lead off.
batty
While that’s a good fit for both sides, it would be dependent upon other Cubs moves. Especially if they plan to bring Castellanos back. If so, then Schwarber has to be traded, because no one is touching the Heyward contract.
mike127
Agree batty—but center field is something that they have to solve and have some control over…..they can certainly plan on bringing Nick back, but they have less control in that situation. Seems like there will consideration for a lot of different moves and puzzle pieces this offseason.
batty
Castellanos isn’t going to have a lot of suitors. Most will likely be of the AL variety. I’d guess the Cubs are going to be one of the busiest teams/organizations this offseason, with both on the field and off the field moves to be made.
keysox
Cubs need to do the three needs:
1 Leadoff hitter – trade with Seattle Dee Gordon and M. Smith for Almora, Happ and Chatwood.
2. Fire Papa Joe and his bottle of OJ – hire David Ross
3. Release Kimblow ASAP
solaris602
One name not mentioned anywhere here that was yet another glaring misstep by the FO was signing Lonnie Chisenhall who never did step onto the field this year. Huntington rolled the dice and lost big time on that one. Chisenhall challenges the adage that there is no such thing as a bad one-year contract.
leefieux
If only they would’ve moved Vasquez at the trade deadline. But who knew?
Gwynning's Anal Lover
The last comment of the Vasquez rumors to Dodgers seemed to indicate that someone knew. That comment was written back in July.
retire21
What was that comment? I don’t recall.
rmullig2
Austin Romine is the obvious choice at catcher. Keep that pipeline going.
TheGreatBaseballMind
The Padres may be a good destination for Marte in return for rookies and prospects at catcher, outfield and starting pitcher. Naylor? Campusano? I would think a combination of a high end prospect, middle prospect and a lower prospect for Marte would be a good deal for both organizations in relation to where they are at now. I wouldn’t want Hedges if I’m the Pirates.
TheGreatBaseballMind
My wife and I went to a Pirate’s Spring Training game against the Orioles back in March 2017. We’re from Chicago and were sitting among a large group of older Pirate fans who were really excited about Elias Diaz. I couldn’t understand why but a few of those older Pirate fans talked about him as being the future star of the Pittsburgh Pirates.
jgfle
I think many Burghers thought this based on Diaz’ 2018 season performance when he complimented Cervelli and stepped up as very reliable when he was hurt. However,this year after a harrowing offseason where his mother was kidnapped in Venezuela, and a slow start after a debiliating illness, he has floundered. It will be interesting to see how he rebounds in 2020.
Mendoza Line 215
Good point.I think that he deserves one after his problematic year off the field.And I think that Stallings has played well enough to deserve the backup role.But the Pirates need both a young catcher who can hit and a reliable older one both in AAA for use in the future and the inevitable emergency.
Smelly_Cobb
Padres aren’t giving up Campusano if I had to bet on it
jakec77
The Mets would be a perfect destination for Marte, but I can’t conceive of a deal unless Pirates are madly in love with some Met prospect.
McNeil straight up? Who says no? I’m guessing both.
batty
No way i’d trade McNeil for Marte.
Monkey’s Uncle
I understand that the series is called “Three Needs”, but for the Pirates calling the article “Thirty Needs” would have been more accurate.
DockEllisDee
I was thinking they could use the outline format, i.e. 1a, 1b, 1c, 2a, etc. I mean seriously you’re right though a few of these franchises literally have 30 needs
lfrient1
Only thirty?
PiratesFan1981
You mentioned trading Marte but also trading for catching prospect Austin Hodges. To get Hodges, it will cost the Pirates draft picks, MLB ready player, and a piece or two of minor league players (which I don’t believe the Pirates have much talented depth outside of Hayes or Keller). I agree with Marte being traded to “rebuild” the depth the organization needs. Marte should be a stepping stone to contend by 2022. Acquisition of Hodges, may push the Pirates to contending later than 2022 even with Marte being traded. In other words, I don’t agree with a trade and then buy scenario you are implying.
Hayes and Keller can be in Pirates uniform to start the season or by mid-season. These guys are off limits. I’d also consider trading Josh Bell and give Will Craig a shot at first base. With Marte and Bell alone, that is enough to retool (by some extent) the system. Keeping draft picks for this upcoming draft, should be a must. Especially the first round pick that will place the Pirates in the Top 10, if not Top 5. This would be a good time to trade and build for 2022. Granted what we draft this year won’t be MLB ready, but it would be more about depth and future stars coming up to contend. Plus the MLB/MLBPA agreement is about to expire before the Pirates are able to compete again. I am almost leaning on supporting DH in the NL. It will open up more opportunities for guys like Will Craig, Jose Osuna, etc. to see playing time. Plus, I am getting sick of pitchers hitting. It’s a easy out anymore. Only a handful of pitchers can hit. So, I think it’s time for a change in the NL.
Appalachian_Outlaw
I almost gave you a thumbs up, but I can’t get behind the idea of a DH in the NL. I hate, hate, hate it! Pitchers are players, same as shortstops and rightfielders, thus they should have to hit. There are plenty of position players that can’t hit either, but still bat. Plus pitchers should bat because if they hit a guy in the ear hole, they should be the one wearing the bruise their next time at the dish instead of some guy on their team that probably had nothing to do with it.
Also, I just like watching the strategy involved as managers double-switch and plan around the pitcher’s spot.
Your Pirates points are solid, though.
willymogarcia33
That whole first paragraph made absolutely no sense. First off, *Hedges is not a prospect, he’s recently turned 27 with parts of 5 seasons in the MLB and 1200+ PA’s. Secondly, you do know teams can’t trade draft picks, right? Outside of the competitive balance picks. Third, *Hedges would not cost “draft picks”, MLB ready player, and 2 prospects.
Appalachian_Outlaw
I could be wrong, but I believe trading the comp picks was what the OP was referring to?…
Either way, giving up anything of value for Hedges seems counterproductive, It wouldn’t be especially hard to find a defensive oriented catcher that can’t hit.
willymogarcia33
Judging by this part in the last paragraph, “Keeping draft picks for this upcoming draft, should be a must. Especially the first round pick that will place the Pirates in the Top 10, if not Top 5.”, the OP thinks they can trade any pick. To which, even so, trading draft picks is very rare, and IIRC, last time Pirates did it was for Gaby Sanchez.
Austin Hedges is arguably the best defensive catcher in MLB, but has a career 62 wRC+. He wouldn’t be given away cheap, as catchers are a bit of a commodity, but he also most likely wouldn’t cost that of a high end talent. Padres do also have Francisco Meija.
That being said, I don’t think they should do it, as Hedges best season was 2.3 fWAR, and hasn’t otherwise eclipsed 2 fWAR. He’s a backup catcher, and not really much of an upgrade over Stallings at this point. I’d prefer to see them call up the Blue Jays to see if they could pry 1 of Jansen or McGuire (yes that McGuire). Both have shown strong defensive skills in the least, and both will only be turning/turned 25 at start of next season.
ChiSoxCity
Pirates Top 3 Needs for 2020:
1. New Owner
2. New Owner
3. New Owner
Honorable Mention:
New Manager
CrewBrew
they really need a closer that is not sexually attracted to children…
clepto
Leave it to Crewbrew for stupid comment of the week. Expect nothing less. He rivals Themed for dumbest commenter overall.
Sid8766
Wouldn’t say that until Hader is investigated buddy!!!
Mendoza Line 215
Kela has a ten cent head but he is a very good pitcher.He is good enough to replace Vasquez.Hopefully he matures and the problems this year are in the past.
I would not trade Marte unless they get a haul and it includes a young ML ready catcher and pitching.
Skeptical
While a new owner would help, that ain’t going to happen unless MLB mans up and forces it. That isn’t going to happen. Given that, the three biggest needs of the Pirates are:
1. New manager. Hurdle may be a sympathetic ear for the players, but he consistently mismanaged the team during games. He appears to manage by simplistic algorithms. Time to get a manager who is creative and decisive.
2. New pitching coach. Searage’s day, like Hurdle’s, has come and gone. Not all pitchers pitch to contact. Develop the strengths of the individual, don’t force them into a mold.
3. Pitching. The pitching staff imploded this year. Maybe a new pitching coach and a new approach could turn this staff around, but if not they need pitching.
mlb1225
Padres receive: Starling Marte
Pirates receive: Luis Campusano and Michael Baez
Who says no first?
TheGreatBaseballMind
I know Baez has started in the minors but has been used in relief for all of 2019. I like this trade for both sides only if the Pirates can use Baez as a starter. If the Pirates view Baez as a relief pitcher only, I would say no if I was the Pirates. I do think this off season is the peak of trading Marte due to his 2019 production and nearing the wrong side age wise of being an everyday center fielder. Not that this would be an issue for the Padres but perhaps for other teams.
.
mlb1225
Even if Baez isn’t going to be a starter, I’d be happy with this trade. Baez becomes our long term set-up or closer, and Luis is almost MLB ready. They need a catcher more than anything right now.
TheGreatBaseballMind
While the Pirates do need a catcher to pair with Diaz, I think their biggest need is starting pitching. The Pirates need to get a starting pitcher out of a Marte deal. If the Pirates do not project Baez to be a starting pitcher, I would prefer Weathers. I prefer Weathers over Baez regardless. I do not think Campusano will be up until May 2022.
mlb1225
True, but it’s not like the Pirates need an immediate solution. They probably won’t be in competition by at least 2021, if not later.
Smelly_Cobb
Padres aren’t going to give up campusano
Smelly_Cobb
Padres aren’t going to give up campusano
threed75
Front office, manager, and pitching coach. Almost every other pitcher that has left the team is doing much better than when he was with the Pirates.
tylerdurden412
I hate to be a downer but I’m completely done with the pirates, I’m also losing interest in baseball as well. I’m sick of the “small market” excuse, especially when smaller or similarly sized markets spend significantly more money. To suggest there are moves that will make the team better is ridiculous, they were building something great and it was wasted. I’m convinced that 2013 -15 was actually a fluke. winning isn’t a priority here, especially when yinzers still go to games and watch them on TV. I get it, I’m a capitalist Nutting can do what he wants with the team. I’m not buying it anymore. it’s a shame because PNC park is fantastic, unfortunately a AA team plays there.
Smelly_Cobb
try the padres plight on for size. We have sucked for 13 years straight
HarveyD82
Gonna need more than 3
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I think that given what he has to work with Huntingdon has done a good job and that the team has more pieces than people give them credit for, BUT…
Sometimes there is too much rot and mold and you just have to bulldoze and rebuild from scratch.
Keep Reynolds, Newman and Keller. Liquidate the rest.
Losing Vazquez for nothing is too big a set back. They either needed him as a player or a trade chip to have any chance.
vtadave
4.. Build a time machine, go back to July 31, and take whatever the Dodgers were offering (Ruiz+?) for Vazquez.
panj341
3 Needs
1.Starting pitchers , only Williams and Musgrove are decent
2.Middle Relief pitchers
3.Closer
Never thought I would miss Ryan Vogelsong when he was our long man out of the bullpen,
his ERA ran between 4 and 6 which is way less than many of the guys on this staff.
Mendoza Line 215
They are just mediocre AAA pitchers.
They have also in some instances been misused.
NH grossly mismanaged this as he had a good plan but he did not allow for any injuries and bad years.
If he survives he needs to do things a lot differently.
Or he should be canned too.
spinach
Romine is the obvious addition at catcher.
Johhos
Marte to Phillies .. Medina, Moniak,take your pick of Vinny Velo, Pivetta or Eflin..