The 2019 season has been a transitional year, to say the least, for the Giants franchise. Ownership hired Dodgers GM Farhan Zaidi last offseason and named him president of baseball operations, and the Bruce Bochy farewell tour is nearing its completion as the end of the season looms. A perhaps improbable midseason hot streak may have kept the Giants from completely tearing down the roster, but it’s eminently possible that impending free agent Madison Bumgarner’s scheduled Sunday outing could be his last in a Giants uniform.
Giants CEO Larry Baer joined Henry Schulman of the San Francisco Chronicle for a half-hour interview (audio link) over the weekend to discuss a host of Giants topics. Giants fans, in particular, will want to give the entire interview a listen for Baer’s discussion of potential changes to Oracle Park, ticket prices, his perspective on the time he spent away from the team during his recent suspension and his overall impressions and takeaways from Zaidi’s first year on the job. But from a pure roster standpoint, specifically with regard to Bumgarner, Baer doesn’t speak as though a parting of ways is a foregone conclusion.
“I think Farhan has had ongoing discussions with his representatives throughout the 2019 season,” Baer says when asked about the possibility of an extension. “Characterizing them — I don’t want to get into what is or isn’t being discussed, but I know they’ve kept open lines of communication.”
The 30-year-old Bumgarner likely has two starts left as he looks to put the finishing touches on his healthiest season since 2016. He’s already topped the 200-inning mark for the eighth time in his illustrious career and is currently sporting a 3.86 ERA (3.78 FIP, 4.18 SIERA) with averages of 8.7 strikeouts and 1.8 walks per nine innings pitched. It’s not quite the dominant Bumgarner of old, but it’s nevertheless been a sharp rebound effort that has helped to quiet any concerns that might’ve existed surrounding his durability in the aftermath of 2017’s dirt bike debacle.
The question for Baer, Zaidi, the Giants and other interested parties, of course, will be one of how long and how lucrative an offer they’re willing to make to outbid the competition for Bumgarner. The lefty won’t turn 31 until next August, so he likely has at least a couple of prime years remaining. But the free-agent market has become increasingly harsh for players on the wrong side of 30, and we’ve seen fewer and fewer teams willing to push an offer past the hard number at which they value a particular asset. The days of impassioned bidding wars may not be over entirely, but they appear to be waning.
Furthermore, Zaidi’s track record with the Dodgers doesn’t suggest that he’ll adopt a “whatever it takes” mentality to keep Bumgarner. The largest sum of new money the Dodgers promised to a player under Zaidi and Andrew Friedman was Kenley Jansen’s five-year, $80MM contract — and Schulman reiterates in the podcast that he’s heard that was more an ownership-fueled decision than a front-office-driven reunion. The Dodgers also extended Clayton Kershaw shortly before Zaidi’s departure, but that deal “only” promised Kershaw an additional year and $28MM on top of the two years and $65MM from which he could’ve opted out. Baer references that as a “top-of-the-market” contract and points to the Giants’ own pursuit of Bryce Harper under Zaidi in suggesting that they won’t necessarily shy away from free agency — so long as a deal makes sense.
“It’s not so much, ’Hey do you have the money for Player X or the money for Player Y, and how much does ownership want to spend?'” Baer explains. “It’s more — how does Farhan and the staff want to bake the cake? The way he’s been successful baking the cake is doing a lot from within, making strategic moves when they make sense. … It’s not about being averse to spending money, but how do you really want to put the whole thing together? When you think about the way it was put together [from] 2009 on, when we won, it was put together pretty much internally. We would complement with free-agent signings a little bit — mainly [additions] at the break, at the trade deadline.”
Again utilizing the cake-baking analogy, Baer states that he believes Zaidi & Co. will do so “with depth, and with looking at current players and what we have in the farm system.” There’s nothing that expressly rules out a series of notable offseason additions, but it’s also far from the aggressive tone that ownership reps from other teams have offered up in recent offseasons (e.g. the Phillies’ “stupid” money decree or the Astros’ public acknowledgment of efforts to add a high-end starter). And while near the end of the interview, Baer suggests that contending for the postseason is a goal every year, including 2020, he spends more time preaching the importance of “taking another large stair-step” forward next season. Progress, he contends, can be measured by the “energy around the Giants,” which he expects to improve in 2020.
Given the Giants’ history with Bumgarner, it’d be a surprise if they didn’t have a significant presence in his offseason market, but beyond that obvious connection, Baer’s comments hardly seem like a portent for aggressive spending on the free-agent market.
snotrocket
That dirt bike accident will probably end up costing Bumgarner at least 50 million dollars.
bucnole31658
He probably gets 5 for 75
Phanatic 2022
You really think he gets 5? Feels like 4
SFGiants4ever
I think the Giants offer him 3 years at 75 mil for an annual of 25 with a team option for a 4th taking it up to 100 mil.
deweybelongsinthehall
Big deal. Nothing can be done about it and MB already has banked enough for his kids’ kids’ kids to live comfortably. He deserves to be able to shop around but at the end of the day will be worth far more going forward to the Giants than any other club. CK deserves to retire a Dodger and MB similarly should end his career in Giants’ black and orange.
JoeBrady
I think it was a lot easier for the LAD to add one year of Kershaw, as opposed to maybe 5 years for MB. Of course, it depends on the dollars, and SF has plenty.
deweybelongsinthehall
He’s not likely to get five years at top dollar per season. The Sox were stupid to give Sales his contract and why does he want to move? Perhaps a JDM type contract and he stays put but has player options.
BlueSkyLA
The Kershaw extension is possibly a model for Bumgarner. The Giants could give him a substantial guarantee along with performance bonuses that would allow him to earn large if he returns to something closer to his earlier form and can stay off the IL.
Jean Matrac
The situations are different. It was an opt out for Kershaw, so the Dodgers were already financially committed, and all they did was add on to the existing contract. It’s a full commitment from scratch for Bum. And it depends greatly on what some other team is willing to offer, especially in years. If some team is willing to go to 6 years, I see them letting him go.
deweybelongsinthehall
Who is giving 6 years at top dollars. No one. Short term at bigger money and the Giants will surely (in my view) match or exceed. Fans will understand if I’m wrong and he gets that big offer for 5 or 6 years but the team will get crucified if the don’t
deweybelongsinthehall
they don’t extend for 3.
BlueSkyLA
No situations are identical but these are quite similar. Kershaw could have walked on his last two years, but that was always unlikely. What he got wasn’t really an extension, it was a new three-year deal worked out while he was still under contract. It gives him a higher earnings ceiling and another year in exchange for some protection for the team. Something very similar could be worked out for Bumgarner in his last year of team control. But the most important similarity is that they are both franchise players with value to the organizations that adds to the value of their on-field performance.
aussiegiants53
Love to see the Giants make him a Giant for life, I think he’s earned that despite the bike incident. Unless he wants to see what else is out there. A 4 year deal with options after that could work. He will be a 3/4/5 guy by then and hopefully a perfect mentor for the next wave and ace LHP we have coming through in Seth Corry. Make it so Giants
gmenfan
I think some Giants fans will be surprised by the direction this offseason takes. Farhan’s moves have already hinted that he doesn’t give career appreciation awards, unlike the previous management group. Hes invested in younger players who appear to be the heir apparent to the Giants WS core. It’s time to start wrapping heads around the idea that some combination of Bumgarner, Posey, Crawford, and Belt will not be starters or even Giants at all next year.
rocky7
Smart GM’s don’t pay in the future for accomplishments in the past that a player has already been paid for.
Even as a Yankee fan, the last 2 years of Jeter were painful as he obviously was holding the team back as he finished out his contract.
The paradigm is changing with newer GM’s thinking….it is a business when it comes to contracts.
Balk
Just like last year, with Harper, it was both Zaidi and ownership that went for it. You can’t go wrong with one of the top starters on the market(mb) coming back to the organization, but you do have Cole out there too, so choose wisely.
BlueSkyLA
The game is still about entertainment and ownership (which ultimately makes all decisions) will often see value in retaining a fan-favorite player even if they are a reduced version of what made them big stars. Ownership can see through merchandising alone which of their players make the turnstiles click and jerseys and t-shirts fly out the door. So just as it would have been terrible marketing for the Dodgers to allow Kershaw to go to free agency, the Giants will have a special incentive to not allow Bumgarner to play somewhere else.
Jean Matrac
I don’t entirely agree. A president of baseball ops is the one to make most decisions. Ownership may step in when unique circumstances occur, like the Kershaw situation you mentioned, and the Giant’s owners may get involved when it comes to Bum. But the Giants made it clear that Zaidi had the reins with the Giants. And if he says they should pursue Cole instead, and they’re able to sign him, they may let Bum walk.
I’m not familiar with the Dodgers owners, but the Giants have a large group of investors. Baer is only the representative of ownership in the FO, and he’s the guy that would have to overrule Zaidi.
Teams do want to make money, but there is no better way to bring fans through the turnstiles, or sell merchandise, than winning. The fans got over losing popular players before like Matt Williams, and Tim Lincecum. They’ll get over losing Bum in exchange for winning if it comes to that.
Koamalu
Most decisions are made by the GM, but all top dollar decisions are made by the owners. Bumgarner is going to be a $20 million per year decision and that is going to be made ultimately by Baer.
BlueSkyLA
Though most of the Dodgers is owned by Guggenheim Partners. a number of individual investors hold minority shares. Just how the decision-making is structured behind the scenes we’re not going to know but as this story makes clear team owners often weigh in on large commitments, and we have to know that no president (e.g, Stan Kasten) or CEO (e.g., Larry Baer) is going to make those decisions without getting a green light from the money people.
Jean Matrac
It’s not either or. For instance, when the Giants pursued Harper, it was Zaidi who went to the owners and was encouraged to make an offer. Zaidi will offer his opinion on re-signing Bum, and the contract parameters. But it will have to dovetail with other moves.
If Zaidi’s opinion is that they should pursue Cole, then how they approach Bumgarner will be impacted. It isn’t that simple that Zaidi keeps out of the big money decisions and only signs guys below a certain monetary limit.
And after telling Zaidi that he would have the power of decision on players, they aren’t going to pull the rug out from under him. If they did, Zaidi would be walking when his contract was up, and I doubt that’s what the Giants want.
SFGiants4ever
@rocky7, you pay players based on what they have done in the past, that’s how sports/entertainment works. You hope they repeat the success the had, or you see something in what they’ve done to make you think you’ll get more out of them. A “smart GM” sees what Joe Schmo has done, and based off history decides what they think that player will do not to include unforeseen circumstances and pays them market value. I.e. Matt Cain got his big contract based on his history of success and health, it was unfortunately a very unhealthy Cain that ended up finishing that contract out.
Sadler
When it comes to resigning Bumgarner, Larry Baer has far more influence than Farhan Zaidi.
talking baseball
Larry Baer has quite a bit less influence after his suspension. Zaidi has more influence than Baer. Baer no longer represents the Giants in MLB matters. Rob Dean is the new decision maker representing the ownership group. Baer is pretty much a lame duck as far as decision making goes for the Giants.
Do some research and you’ll find the truth.
xSpecBx
At the end of the day, the GM works for the owner. If the owner wants a player, the owner will tell the GM to sign them or the agent will go around the GM. It happens regularly. When ARod signed that terrible second deal with the Yankees, that was at the owners direction. When Price Fielder signed with the Tigers, that was at the owners direction. It is not uncommon.
Sadler
@talking baseball
You are right that Rob Dean is the new decision maker but Larry Baer is still a minority owner and on the board. If the Giants resign Bumgarner, it won’t be because Zaidi wanted him; just like it wasn’t he that wanted to go hard after Bryce Harper.
“Rob will transition into the role of chairman and will continue as the MLB designated control person,” the team said in a statement. “In this capacity, Rob — along with Larry — will represent the club with MLB. Rob will also, on behalf of ownership, collaborate with the executive leadership team on major organizational issues. Keeping in line with industry standards, the president of baseball operations reports to the control person, and we will adopt that practice.”
its_happening
QO him and take it from there.
jekporkins
I love this mentality – essentially they will offer him what they think he’s worth but aren’t going to just spend spend spend to keep him. If it makes sense, go for it. If not, move on.
Repeat after me – Never sign a 30-year-old pitcher to a five-year contract.
Gmen777
I mostly agree with you but I can stomach five years of Bum if he’d take less than $20M AAV. I know you don’t pay for the past but I think 99% of the fan base could survive a year or two of him being bad
gmenfan
If you’re starting to discuss dropping ticket prices due to poor attendance, then that tells you there is a growing contingent of fans that aren’t going to stomach much more losing. The fans that hold onto their “Forever Giants” are loud, but their numbers are dwindling with the last three and a half seasons of toiling away.
Phanatic 2022
Yes and no. Mentally they can accept but if 3/4 years from now it’s stops them from getting an important piece a lot of fans will revolt
sleepyfloyd
And u assume MB would take less than market value? Why?
So you can feel warm about it?
old dodger fan
Greinke has been good 4 years into a 6 year deal he signed when he was 32. Too much money maybe? It depends on how much you have. I wish he was in the Dodgers rotation for the playoffs.
Gmen777
Bumgarner and Greinke are also similar in they aren’t power pitchers they rely more on command and those pitchers tend to age better…then there’s the freak of nature Justin Verlander
jekporkins
For every Greinke there are twenty Matt Cain’s.
Besides, that Greinke contract was known to hold the D’Backs back from resigning others, including Goldschmidt.
spinach
I thought this guy Baer got cut down to size and severely demoted, guess not.
I think Madbum will get a much bigger contract than people expect just because “much bigger than people expect” still won’t be that huge or outlandish. Like I think so many teams would take him at say 4/$80m that he will be able to get it up to 6/$125m with at least one team left in the bidding. I’d rather have him at that than Cole at 7/$220 or whatever people think he will get. Much less risk.
talking baseball
Spinach, you are correct when it comes to your statement about Larry Baer. He used to be more visible, now he’s in the background.
VegasSDfan
3/60, he will be in that range.
arc89
Not even close. lack of starting pitchers he will get 6/150. Somebody will throw the brink truck at him. Watch Texas go all out for him. Whoever comes up second on Cole will give Madbum a larger than life deal. Madbum is the 2nd best FA starter on the market.
scottn59c
Do you really think so? Look what happened to Dallas Keuchel this year. I sense that teams would go 5 years for a Cole or a Syndergaard, but not for Bum.
SFGiants4ever
I said it earlier, I think he gets 3 for 75, 25per with a team option for a 4th year taking the contract to 100 for 4 years.
I honestly don’t think Madison has a huge desire to keep playing long into his 30s, I think he’ll be happy with that kind of money then head to go farm for the rest of his days.
SFGiants4ever
I said it earlier, I think he gets 3 for 75, 25per with a team option for a 4th year taking the contract to 100 for 4 years.
I honestly don’t think Madison has a huge desire to keep playing long into his 30s, I think he’ll be happy with that kind of money then head to go farm for the rest of his days.
jekporkins
No way. I’d be shocked if he gets $100 million over 5, let alone a six-year, 150.
Cam
I hope you’re here to put your hand up and say you were wrong, when he inevitably does not get $150mil.
It’s not happening.
Phanatic 2022
Maybe a wee bit more but agreed
Gmen777
I think he’ll look five but settle for four unless the Giants give him five because they’re the only team I can see willing to give the fifth year.
jgpoteat
He’s worth and deserving of $18.5, million per year basically and would love to see him back at 18 million x 4, with a team option for I more year. I just saw his last start and have seen to many up and down starts like this one They will need room to sign one more starter( maybe Wheeler, Odorizzi) or try like hell to resign Will Smith to anchor a revamped bullpen that might also include Watson at the right price..
woodstock005
Are the giants rebuilding???
I think so
Takes time
That means mad bum not on the equations
ck420
Someone is gonna overpay him and regret it!
PKVA
I think the Giants will at least for appearances be in on Cole and they to see if he will take something below market if they keep Bum but Bum will be lucky to get 3 and $60 from the Giants and they can certainly back load a deal for Cole that maybe gets you 6 for $180 mill…$20 mill a year with Bum for 3 years then $40 mill last 3 without Bum and the dead Posey/Crawford/Belt deals…that is $50 mill or so right there…go with Cole/Bum/Cueto/Smardj (unless they cna move his last year) and one could argue that might be the best rotation in the game. Then just need offense and a lot of it.
vinnyh
If the Giants find a way to keep him he has the chance to be special to them like CC is to the Yankees. MadBum seems smart enough to adapt his pitching along the way.
Jean Matrac
I shake my head when I see “don’t pay for future performance based on past numbers”. It’s not that easy. First off, past numbers tell you how good a player has been, and as far I know there are no numbers that will tell you how good a guy will be in the future. Second, every player is different, and no one knows when the decline will begin, or how steep the decline will be.
I agree, that you shouldn’t give players in their 30’s long term contracts. But the idea that it’s so easy to sign a guy to a contract that you will be happy with every year, and that you can calculate the end of his career, and avoid the bad years, is absurd. If you get 3 productive years for 1 bad one, or even 4 good years for 2 bad ones at the end, that’s a reasonable contract.
What teams need to avoid are the contracts like Pujols and Miggy that become albatrosses..One or 2 years overpaying for a guy that has been productive will not kill a team. But every guy is different, and there is no one rule that you can go by. It’s just not that easy, as some would make it seem.
jekporkins
I hear ya, but I will point out overpaying for one or two years is what got the Giants in their current situation (Posey, Crawford, Belt, Pence, Cain, Pence come to mind). The Giants give Bum a five-year deal and in three everyone will be on this same board complaining like they currently are about Craw and Belt.
Frankly, the new blood in MLB would rather pay young guys more early up than for what they did in their entire 20s. It makes sense. You’re paying for potential over past performance with a deteriorating return. When someone like Bum or Acuna sing those team-friendly deals when they were young, the players association pitches a fit.
Jean Matrac
I agree, but beware of signing potential. There are tons of guys that had potential that never did anything. Past performance is germane, but it does need to be weighed with other factors like age, position, injury history, etc.
There was nothing wrong with the Pence signing. No one has any inside information on who will be be injured and who won’t. Every single FA signing is a gamble. Sometimes it pays off, like with the Astros signing of Michael Brantley.
When the Giants extended Crawford, he was an all-star, he’d won a gold glove, and a silver slugger. After the first year of the contract he finished 12th in the MVP voting and again was a gold glove winner. Steve Adams said this at the time:
“In locking up Crawford, the Giants will secure one of the game’s premier shortstop defenders as he comes off an offensive breakout.”
“…it should be noted that Crawford doesn’t need to be a 20-homer bat at shortstop to justify the type of money committed to him in this deal. The average shortstop has been about 13 to 14 percent worse than the league-average hitter over the past four seasons, and Crawford’s bat exceeded those levels each year dating back to 2013 (when adjusting for his cavernous home park). Simply delivering better-than-average offense, relative to his positional peers, and continuing to turn in sterling defensive work should be enough for Crawford to justify, if not exceed the value of his new contract.”
“Crawford would’ve easily led the shortstop class in free agency that season, as he’d be joined by the likes of Ruben Tejada, Danny Espinosa, Eduardo Nunez and Alexi Amarista.”
It’s easy to know what the team should have done in hindsight. It’s not so easy when the decision needs to be made.
norcal73
4 years ~ 85 million. The QO will help the Giants resign him. Bum is still a horse out there and he was never one to rely on a blazing fast ball, so he should age well.
JayRyder
I’d like to see the Giants resign Bumgarner. Smith. Trade Belt to open first base for Posey, maybe Dickerson and more. Resign Vogt for one year. If they can get takers for Longo that’s a god send. But I’m expecting him back. Crawford too. But I’d rather have Craw and hope for a bounce back year. I’m 50/50 on him.
I’d like another veteran right hander in the pen. And maybe keep an open mind at adding a veteran pitcher at next year’s deadline… Knowing they have a lot of young options already in house.
If they can pull off some of these things. With a solid New Manager. 85-90 wins next year. Maybe contend for a Wild Card again.
This years run was very fun. And this is not a one season tear down build up. But I think if it goes right. They could be in the conversation again next year. And who knows in the postseason. . . Oracle Park plays very cold in October… All about the Pitching. . . But with the new baseballs they’re using. Who knows.
Go Giants. !!!
AndyWarpath
Why do you like Crawford more than Longoria? Longoria is cheaper and more productive by a long shot.
JayRyder
Longo has 3 years left for about 60 mil. Craw has two years left at just over 30 Total. . . Craw can stick pick at short. For a few more years. Longo has a bad foot. And finding a third baseman I don’t think would be that hard for this front office to fill. . . Unless they can move Longo to first here and there. I’d say trade him if you can. Three more years of Longo. That’s a lot. Craw can play Enough I think for the next year plus. And see how that goes…
But we’ll see what they do. . .
AndyWarpath
I believe the Longoria salary is closer to 14m a year since the Rays paid down his salary at time of trade. Salary/length/age are similar, but Longoria’s production has been much stronger than Crawford’s – even if it is at a slightly less premium position.
JayRyder
I like Longo. I like the home runs. And he seems to have a knack for RBIs. But three more years? I don’t really see how that’s a good thing. Considering it was one of the moves that got Evans removed.
I agree with the pay down the rays gave. I’m not sure how much. That’s another good thing. But still. With the way the game’s changing. . . I’m more Connected to Crawford for his time here. Than Longo as a longer term investment by one year.
But hey, they might not be able to trade them. If we have them great. I enjoyed Longo last season when he was hot before he hurt his hand. I know he’s a presence in the lineup.
We’ll See.
norcal73
I’m in agreement with bringing Bum, Smith, and Vogt back. Crawford got a no trade clause so platoon him with Dubon. My dream scenario would be to sign Rendon 6years ~190 million (they went after Harper) and try Longoria out at second base (if he can’t handle second then First. Belt could compete for left field with Dickerson and be a defensive replacement at first, if you can’t find an acceptable trade. Also try and sign Ryu from Dodgers to at least jack up the price.
HammerinHank
No one wants Belt or Crawford, so good luck dumping those contracts. Giants are stuck with them for the long run..
Show Me Your Tatis
The decision not to trade Bumgarner is going to end up looking as bad for SF as not trading Harper did for WAS.
vtadave
You really think the Giants were extracting a bounty of prospects for Bumgarner? I’m sure they would have dealt him if they got such an offer, but they’re probably better off having waited and having him re-signed or rejecting the QO.
Show Me Your Tatis
They will only get a sandwich pick at the end of the 2nd round for QOing Bumgarner. They could have gotten more in a trade. And trading him certainly doesn’t mean they can’t re-sign him.
Jean Matrac
No. Zaidi isn’t stupid. He doesn’t turn down a good offer. Had it been significantly better than the sandwich pick Bum would be gone. Everyone knows about winning streaks, and Zaidi was not fooled by the one the Giants got on. Him turning down a good deal because he thought the Giants could get to the PS is laughable. He’s a professional and it;s ridiculous to think he knew less than those who comment on MLBTR.
Show Me Your Tatis
So are you seriously telling us that no one offered anything better than a sandwich pick after round 2 for a proven postseason horse?
Jean Matrac
Maybe. Perhaps the offer was marginally better, but I’m positive it was not significantly better. Had this been 5-10 years ago, the Giants get a future star. But these days teams are vastly overvaluing prospects, and are unwilling to part with a good one for a pure rental.
Dingerz
100% agree. People called me an idiot for wanting to trade Bumgarner even after the hot streak. Jokes on them now.
damon389
Considering the $$$ that the Giants have, they should let Bum walk and go “all-in” on Cole. Break the fuc*ing bank. While he’s a So Cal guy, they’d get him on the West Coast and he’d be playing in an extreme pitcher’s park.
But knowing the Giants, they’ll go all in on MadBum and overpay so the fans can keep wearing his jersey and talk about the “good ole days” of 12 and 14 as their squad wins ~75 games.
SalaryCapMyth
I don’t think Cole solves the problem and you can see it in your own post. If the Giants sign Bum they will win 75 games but if they sign Cole they will be contenders? These days that takes at least 90 wins on an easy year. You think Cole will get the Giants 15 xtra wins ontop of what Madbum would have done?
rightyspecialist
Bumgarner isn’t a front end starter anymore. He’s maybe a #3 or #4 on a powerhouse like Houston or LA , comparatively he’s like a Adam Wainwright or Lance Lynn. And because of his legacy status in SF , he may do better financially with an extension in SF. His regular season stats the last three years are just sort of average and Modern front offices are not going to pay for postseason heroics that accrued a half a decade ago.
Show Me Your Tatis
Nor is Farhan Zaidi
SalaryCapMyth
Someone said on this topic that MadBum is the second best pitcher on the market and he’ll get 6/120. The only starter that really seperates himself from the rest is Cole. After him you have a small cluster of starting pitchers that feel like any of them could own the second spot.
Odorizzi. He’s younger than Bum and performed similarly this year a even a little better.
Keuchel. Performed a little better but it was over a shortened season
Ryu. Definitely a bigger injury risk but also definitely outperformed Bum.
So I don’t think it’s as clear cut as MadBum taking the no.2 spot. In addition to that, if teams think Madbum isnt willing to give them any value, they will start turning to pitchers on a lower tier such as Wheeler and Roark.
Keuchel knows very well that just because their are better starters available doesnt mean they will land jobs. A few teams preferred to pass Gio Gonzalez around rather than sign Keuchel.
James1955
Bumgarner is one of the best clutch playoff performers in history. You can not say that about very many players. Season stats mean nothing under the pressure of the playoffs.
rightyspecialist
Clutch? When 5 years ago?? Smart FOs don’t pay for playoff performances that are 5 years old. If it’s about a high demand for 5 year old clutch guys, David Freese would be a top earner and Cody Ross would have a job
SalaryCapMyth
We all thought he was still an ace until he wasnt. He’s obviously lost something so it seems irresponsible to think he is still the same playoff dominating force he used to be too.
Oxford Karma
4 years 92$ Million.
Who says no?
exile
Bumgarner isn’t as dominant as he once was. He benefits greatly by pitching his home games at pitcher friendly Oracle Park. He has struggled on the road the past 2 seasons (4.97 away ERA in 2018, and 5.29 away ERA in 2019. He might be a #3 or #4 starter with an ERA around 4 if he signs with a team with a hitter friendly park.
neurogame
I expect the Angels to go after him and Gerrit Cole. Bumgarner likes to hit, so perhaps he can lobby the Angels into letting him do so when Ohtani pitches.
Matt_Angel_Bronco_Laker
YES!!!! Minus the hitting. Just maybe make sure he pitches in interleague to get his fix.
sleepyfloyd
Why would the angels let MB hit when Ohtani is the superior hitter?
Makes no sense.
neurogame
If you read the reply, I stated,” when Ohtani pitches.” It makes sense when you read it.
norcal73
If the Giants can make the playoffs next year it’s going to be as a wild card team and I don’t mind Bumgarner starting that game. I thought about Cole especially because of his Crawford relationship but I rather spend that money on Rendon who’s an every day player.
5TUNT1N
Rendon? Assuming they move Longoria and spend the most on free agents ?
rightyspecialist
Playoffs? the SF Giants are 4-5 years away from being a playoff team. They’re not even close. The Philadelphia Phillies. That is what close looks like not the SF Giants
5TUNT1N
Hit that audio link for some fluuuuuuffffffffff
rightyspecialist
For some bizarre reason Giants fans are under the impression that somehow Bumgarner would gladly re-sign in SF. For a guy who will signing his last big contract who in the past thrives in the postseason, there is absolutely to reason to re-sign with a team that is 4-5 min away from being a legitimate playoff contender. Certainly not if he has better opportunities/ Options in places like Houston, NY, Atlanta, Chicago or LA
Show Me Your Tatis
I’m sure he’ll give them some kind of discount. I’m also sure that that discount won’t be that big and that he would have still given them a discount even if they had traded him.
Henry Silvestre
he would look in a Padre uniform in 2020
norcal73
I think you’re forgetting what the QO does to free agents like Bumgarner. Look what it did to Keuchel last year. Bumgarner has said in the past he wants to stay in SF. As long as someone doesn’t over pay by a bunch he should be back at a reasonable price. I definitely see the Giants spending big money the next two years. The F.O. wants butts in the seats and Giants have a lot of minor league talent that’s three years away. They also have a lot of money coming off the books in 2-3 years. With a couple nice signings a win total in the high 80’s isn’t unreasonable. That’s usually good enough for a wild card spot. I only see the Dodgers having a team that’s clearly going to be better on paper next year. There’s a lot that can happen this off season. Nats could lose Rendon. Giants could sign him and move Longoria to first/second if not finding any respectable trade offers. Brewers should be better than Giants, but a little bit of a question mark with Yelich. Cubs will have a lot of changes. Cardinals will be good but not clearly better if they lose some players and Giants sign some. Giants ownership has shown they’re not a team that stays out of the playoffs very long.
rightyspecialist
It’s not 2014 , high 80’s doesn’t get you a wildcard spot anymore. Lol. It’s 90+ and it’s been that way for a while. Do your homework. Also, Organizationally the SF Giants are not 1-3 pieces away. This is a group that rode a -70 DIFF most of the year. They are 4-5 years away.
The Mets, Phillies and the Padres are a few pieces away. Not the Giants.
With Bochy gone , Farhan is gonna really start the rebuild process this off season. Which means he’s looking to get younger and leaner. He’s not looking to Add any big contracts.
Everyone is baseball knows this is a massive 4-5 rebuild. Only Giants fans try to rationalize some fantasy playoff contender next year or the year after. Farhan Zaidi is smart. He’s gonna do it right. And right is 4-5 years
Jean Matrac
First off no one knows what any team will look like 4-5 years from now.
Second, the Giants do not rebuild. Zaidi may make the personnel decisions, but in context with his direction to compete.
Third, the Giants got off to a bad start this season. And they had a horrible 10 days at the end of May. On May 21st the run diff was -44. On May 31st it had ballooned to -89. It’s -80 now after that bad series in Atlanta, which mean that in June, July, August, and 3+ weeks into September they are a +9.
Cam
In other words, when all is said and done, they ended up a well below par team.
sleepyfloyd
Lol too bad run diff don’t really mean W-L record and overall talent. You can look at any stat you want, the Giants are years away from contending
Jean Matrac
They are a near .500 team. It’s far better than all the predictions I read on these pages at season’s start. They were supposed to lose 100 games according to some. Zaidi has improved the farm. And with the financial resources this team possesses, they may be back sooner than you think. I’m not predicting they will. It depends on the coming off-season and who they can acquire, and, like with all teams, how well they can avoid injuries. But I would not be surprised with a big improvement next season over last.
Cam
I’d like to know what sheet of paper you’re reading off, if it says the Dodgers will be the only team better than the Giants next year.
The Giants are sub-par at multiple positions – a few free agents isn’t going to paper that over.
They’re a bottom-third team in the league without much flexibility to get better, or much talent to bring up.
Show Me Your Tatis
Keuchel got hurt by the QO because he set an exorbitant asking price and refused to back down from it. If Bumgarner is realistic he’ll be fine.
And if Bumgarner wants to stay in SF so bad, why not trade him for a haul at the deadline then bring him back as a FA, like the Yankees did with Aroldis Chapman?
norcal73
You’re knit picking over a game or two. I’m saying ~89 and your saying 91. Giants had a horrible first month and they’re getting Cueto back healthy next year. They swung for the fences last year with Harper(offering over 300million) but didn’t sign any big contracts. Giants always will be a top spending team so sorry you can never say they’re 4-5 years out of making the playoffs and sound like you know what your talking about.
rightyspecialist
Like I’ve stated in other posts, I’m a Yankee fan from New Jersey who’s relocated to SF for business. These comments on this thread just reinforce my belief after two years in the Bay Area that San Francisco Giants fans are clearly delusional. Statistical analysis, Data, win – loss column …it means nothing.
This arrogant resistance to a proper re-build . This baseless belligerent cry of ‘ we’re only a few pieces away’ from being a playoff team is not only mind boggling. It’s down right frightening.
The SF Giants have a massive talent problem. This franchise is in far worse shape than ownership is willing to admit. And they have a fan base of nonsensical folks who don’t know any better.
Giants fans who want proper perspective on their team and what direction it’s going in and subsequently how long it will take. Might want to look at teams that are actually close to contending. Phillies, Mets, Padres. These teams will not make the playoffs this year and they have talent like Tatis , Machado, Harper, Alonso, Syndergaard, de grom, Renfro, Paddack, Hoskins.
The Giants have bad contract hitters w/ Posey, Belt, Crawford and a bunch of Triple A castoffs . The starting rotation is mediocre. The bullpen pitched well early this season but that has been blown up. So, in the final analysis, how do you expect to win baseball games or better yet be a legit playoff contender? This Giants team will finish below .500 again. Shouldn’t the goal be to finish above.500 first ?
All this stuff Giants fans type is just insanity
BlueSkyLA
I’m no Giants fan obviously but I have to say this analysis is kind of silly. I mean, the moment you try to characterize an entire region of the country and its fans you’re straying into laugh riot territory and without a map.
The Giants could paper over a lot of deficiencies by simply spending large. And where have we seen that before? The Dodgers, seven years ago. The new ownership inherited a bankrupt team with a middling payroll and a ransacked farm and scouting system. They dumped money on the problem. A whole lot of money. The payroll ballooned to over $300M at one point. They never went into a rebuild, proper or otherwise.
Will the Giants do the same? I have no idea. I just know they have the financial muscle to do it, if they choose to go that route. How they handle Bumgarner’s impending free agency will be a major signal for which model of returning to relevance they decide to pursue.
WarrenSpahn
rightyspecialist is on to something here…
the cupboard is bare and Giants management knows it
they cant’ say the word “rebuild” so they keep Busty Poser and Bum on the payroll to give the dwindling diehard base the illusion they are serious about contending.
Oracle Park is a corporate entertainment venue. Each home game this season has started with about half the seats empty. The “fans” drift in late, take selfies, talk on their phones, eat their garlic fries, drink their $15 beers, and leave early to have another drink or smoke some weed at the clubs and bars across the street. most of them barely notice there is a game going on.
Socrates Curveball
Giants should covet the top 40 draft pick Bumgarner would return if he landed elsewhere. Stack another draft on top of last yrs haul and continue developing the next core from within. Bumgarner is an old 30 with a lot of innings on his arm. Giants are in getting young, more athletic and financially flexible mode. Not handing MadBum $20M per yr. Fits much better with a ‘Now’ team in the NL.. the Braves.
Dingerz
I don’t even care. Should’ve traded him for a good haul of prospects. Bring him back on a team friendly deal or who cares. Dude is declining and doesn’t deserve the money he would’ve got if Sabean had waited until Bumgarner had proven himself more to extend him. Too late now so it’s either team friendly deal or don’t re-sign him.
WarrenSpahn
Larry Baer is a master of the art of talking without saying anything….
missjill2u
I’d love to unload Posey, Belt and Crawford. Given their contracts the only tiny possibility is Belt and he’s been terrible offensively so who’d want him. We have Bart coming up. We need a first baseman. We haven’t used Solano like we should so if I were him I’d leave. We have Dubon at SS (his natural position). Outfield is already new and if we don’t keep Pillar someone should burn down the Gotham Club. That would make room for bullpens if it’s in ashes. Shark had a good year – trade him. Keep Bumgarner. He is the player with fire in his belly and that does help the young guys. We are going to have to buy starters even if we keep him. We have Cueto, Shark, Bum and Webb is still a question mark. Suarez, D-Rod, Beede – they all need to go and those are all 26/27 younger players. Have to buy *some* proven talent.
angt222
I’d be shocked if SF resigns Bumgarner.. Have the feeling he lands with ATL, STL or even MIN