Manager Alex Cora says that the Red Sox will move righty Andrew Cashner into a relief role, as Chris Cotillo of MassLive.com was among those to cover (Twitter links). For the time being, at least, the club will go with a four-man rotation.
Cashner is said to have accepted the demotion — not that he really had any choice in the matter. And it’d be hard to argue he deserves otherwise. In six outings since arriving via trade, Cashner carries a brutal 8.01 ERA with 6.2 K/9 and 5.0 BB/9 over 30 1/3 innings.
This move comes as the Red Sox continue to sink in the Wild Card standings. With a 7.5-game deficit entering play today, and no end in sight to the veteran hurler’s struggles, the club can ill afford to keep running him out there every fifth game.
There are also some contractual elements at play here, as MLBTR’s Mark Polishuk recently explained. Cashner had an outside shot at triggering a vesting option provision had he made all of his remaining potential starts (and gone deep into every one of them). His most recent start, which lasted only 1 2/3 innings, all but eliminated that possibility. Today’s news buries it once and for all.
It’s unlikely the Boston organization really considered that factor in making today’s move, since it remained quite unlikely that Cashner would’ve made the innings tally required to turn the $10MM club option into a guaranteed 2020 salary. It was natural to bump Cashner from the rotation with so many upcoming off days. Indeed, Cora hinted that the club may at times even try to skip another starter — almost certainly, the scuffling Rick Porcello — over the next six weeks.
Now that Cashner is all but assured to return to the open market at season’s end, it raises the stakes for him over the stretch run. It will certainly be interesting to see whether he can change his fortunes in a relief role.
Occams_hairbrush
It would be rather impossible for him to “change his fortunes” at this point. At the most he is probably going to pitch 15-20 innings the rest of the year. He”ll still make some money in free agency though. He is what he always has been, a back end of the rotation guy for a small market team.
petrie000
Somebody will take a flier on him in hopes they can be the one to ‘fix him’ then flip him
darkstar61
Has Angels written all over it.
Sadly
yamsi1912
God I hope not.
California Halo's
so true..
Berger
I don’t understand how moving from one team to another can impact a player so dramatically. 1-4 with 8.01 ERA? Yikes!
bbatardo
Different catchers and pitch selections can do it.
AtlSoxFan
Add to that a much higher pressure environment – fanbase, media, even personal expectations as you can imagine a guy to start saying to himself “they brought me in to fix this” what with the year’s results for boston….
spinach
If Cashner came in thinking that Boston brought him in expecting him to alter the course of their season he has bigger problems than a high ERA.
qbass187
Different pressures. Pitching for a team in a big market with playoff atmosphere is a lot different then playing for a last place team in front of no one piling up garbage time wins.
rmullig2
Simple regression back to his expected performance. No different than a hitter going into a slump.
Bmore2632
Andrew Cashner was NOT GOOD before being traded. He had a large gap between his ERA and xFIP which is now starting to regress back to the mean. Plus his make up as a low K-BB% pitcher has a history of not playing out throughout the league.
Suffice to say this was a god awful pick up for the red sox. His batted ball profile is almost identical to his career average. His strand rate is a little low… but he’s also sporting a friendly 282 BABIP. The man is not playoff race rotation caliber pitching
Which as an O’s fan… I’m fine with.
jbigz12
Could be a blessing in disguise for Cashner. If he proves to be a good relief piece he could easily find a better contract marketing himself as a reliever than as a fringe backend starter.
southbeachbully
@jbigz12 What are the chances that the Sox will play him in any high leverage situation? I don’t the next 10-15 innings he might get coming out the pen will be enough to establish him as a reliever worth any more than slightly above the minimum.
Jeff Zanghi
I think there’s a fair chance that Cashner, if he starts out hot out of the gate – like say he makes an appearance or two in non-high leverage situations and looks really strong – that then he could be given a shot to prove himself in more significant situations just because the Red Sox bullpen is really so lacking all around. Now… will Cashner actually pitch well in relief? I don’t know how confident I am in that… BUT if he does, I think given the struggles of so many of the Sox relievers, I think he’ll be given a shot.
jbigz12
There’s still over a month worth of games and the RS bullpen is by no means a stellar unit. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get high leverage innings if he looks good. I would imagine teams are already intrigued by his relief potential.
xSpecBx
Aren’t the Red Sox starters not going very deep into games? They will have no choice but to use him or risk further burning out the rest of the bullpen.
Randy Red Sox
Yeah because we have so many great BP arms
tjettman
For sure it should up his average velocity.
thunderbolt
Trade for Pitching, Draft Hitting.
It’s amazing to me how many GMs fail to have an eye for pitching talent. If there’s anything that non-analytics scouts have proven they’re good at doing, it’s scouting pitching.
Is it ironic that the Astros’ Staff is composed of TRADED pitchers? No.
thunderbolt
The Astros use TRADITIONAL scouts for pitching and ANAYLITICS for hitting.
athleticsnchill
I think you have that backwards. The Astros are heavy into pitching analytics, not so much into hitting analytics. For the most part they’ve looked for guys with high spin rates, although I wouldn’t say you could go wrong trading for Verlander, Cole and Greinke no matter how you scout talent.
Their hitting however is very traditional. Guys that don’t strikeout a lot and hit for contact. Few teams look for that anymore. We can say, “oh they look at exit velocity,” but a scout can tell when a player is hitting the ball consistently on the barrel and creating hard contact.
thunderbolt
Scouting players that “don’t strikeout much” is extremely difficult. That has to come from a heavily analytical hitting/scouting department.
southbeachbully
@thunderbolt
I would assume that the more progressive teams that use analytics do so for all aspects of the game be it pitching, hitting or fielding. It would be shameful not to. That being said one of the things Verlander raved over once moving from Detroit to Houston was the useful analytics they shared with him. I know that Houston has a real preference for pitchers who can spin the ball at a high rate. I would say that Houston is probably among the teams that rely heavily on analytics in it’s scouting efforts. Yanks probably learned from them.
thunderbolt
Spin Rate data definitely is the curve that the Astros have been ahead of for a long time. They must know something the rest of the league doesn’t.
User 4245925809
Sox organization has always been that way. developed oh so many outstanding hitters and multiple HOF ones the last 60y, just pitching has always been the bottleneck. One GM who did draft some would be a shock, cause many thought he was a goof, was “loveable Lou” Gorman. John Tudor, bobby Ojeda, Oil Can Boyd, Clemens. His guys did well with both hitting and pitching, then many were traded early in Ojeda and Tudor.
Boston2AZ
Better GM than he was given credit for. But he’ll always be remembered for his “What would we do with Willie McGee” quote. Although my personal favorite was “The sun will rise, the sun will set, and I’ll have lunch”! LOL!
User 4245925809
He was sure entertaining and reachable from the perspective of fans as well. Remember he had a like 30m show on.. Was it Nesn back then.. Or WeeI for like 30m before a game once per week where he would talk Sox and come up with his typical comedy quotes at times.
As for McGee you mentioned.. you bet.. those old sox teams, as did the ones before them for years just bashed and went from base to base.. Gorman just continued that thought pattern. That mindset was drafting hulking sluggers 1st round for years, many never did anything. can recall many coming thru Winter Haven on the old FSL team they had there. Rice was one of the few that ever amounted to anything they drafted high, jack “buck” baker got a cup of coffee. rest were total wastes for years instead of taking ppl that could run.. like mcGee.
petrie000
Non-analytic scouts don’t exist. Neither do analytic scouts. All scouts go and scout whoever the front office tells them to scout, then report back their opinions on what they saw.
It’s also entirely untrue to claim GMs don’t have an eye for pitching talent. The reason so many teams use high round draft picks on hitters is because pitchers on average take longer to develop and have huge attrition rates in the minors. It’s just much more economical to trade for a pitcher who’s survived the grind because you know when and what you’re getting out of him.
thunderbolt
excellent points all around
darkstar61
Astros take fair to good pitchers and make them great using analytics
The other big 3, Oakland, Tampa Bay and Cleveland, very notably do the same
It’s the non-advanced stat clubs you generally don’t see developing/reinventing pitchers. They might find one occasionally, but never get repeated staff results like the advanced clubs
thunderbolt
there’s no doubt that’s the way it’s worked in the AL.
rookiegreg
Its mostly Circumstance they traded for pitching. Mccullers and Martin got hurt and Kuechel is long gone… with a team like they have they are simply going for it as they should.. they also probably hoped to see Whitley as well but its give up the farm for Greinke instead
thunderbolt
Necessity is the mother of invention. Well put.
JayRyder
My guess. Like the article says. They’re skipping him so the option doesn’t vest. I Think he’ll be back making starts later in the season. A few here or there. . .
athleticsnchill
Or it’s because he ain’t that good. He’s gotten lit up in his Boston starts so far.
petrie000
The fact that he also kinda sucks probably factors in a lot. When you’re in a tight playoff chase, sucking is not something you can tolerate for long.
Yankeepride88
What’s tight about being 8 games out of any playoff spot?
ShieldF123
At least he called it a chase instead of a race
rmullig2
He would have to average 8 innings a start the rest of the year for the option to vest. No way he is capable of that but if he was they would want to keep him.
swanhenge
This really has been a terrible, no good, very bad season.
Now we’re discussing pros and cons of Andrew freakin Cashner’s demotion to the bullpen? Of the Red Sox?!?! He’s not even supposed to be here.
Cripes!
bcjd
I don’t understand why hey don’t just release him and call up a rookie for a taste of the Show.
petrie000
He might prove useful in the pen or as an emergency starter in the future. Worth experimenting before completely cutting ties, since you can only do that once
bcjd
Useful for what? This team needs to be looking at 2020, and Cashner isn’t part of that picture.
Occams_hairbrush
Because they don’t have anyone ready for the show.
ShieldF123
Because the Sox have no one capable of being called up and succeeding and if they call up a guy who isn’t ready it could do more harm then good, plus start a player’s service time clock unnecessarily
lopodan
Cashner had a good season for the Orioles this year and a bad one last year. Did the Orioles new analytic guys and new pitching coach help him? Just random events for a veteran pitcher?
He was well liked by the team this year and very supportive of the rebuilding efforts. Maybe he could come back and get an incentive based contract for 2020. in Baltimore.
Sasha C. Handelman
Definitely reminds me of 2011 when Sox traded for Erik Bedard. He had done great with the Mariners only to come to Boston and self destruct
FrostyPucker
Why the hell don’t they move him to Pawtucket?
TJECK109
And this is the guy that was going to quit if he didn’t like where was traded
johns-11
Nothing constructive to say BUT looks good on him. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy *cough*
Oxford Karma
that went well. Middle of the road guys have a handful of good starts each year. Cashner already had his this year. Sox should have known better.
Dorothy_Mantooth
He’ll revive his career with Oakland next year. They have a knack of taking guys like this and getting them to pitch to a sub 4.00 ERA. Their big ball park (enormous foul ball territory) must have something to do with it. You see so many foul balls go one or two rows deep in Fenway, then the batter hits a HR on the next pitch. All outs in Oakland!
athleticsnchill
He will not pitch in Oakland next year. There will be no place for him in a rotation of Manaea, Fiers, Montas, Bassitt and one of 6 or 7 prospects coming back from injury, including Luzardo, Puk, Holmes, Jefferies and Kaprielian.
sergefunction
Please, Andrew, sign with the KBO or some such.
The less seen of him, the less the Anthony Rizzo trade comes to mind.
Then again, had the Swingin’ and Missin’ Friars not made that trade they would have exchanged Rizzo for Kyle Drabek anyway. But, still….
AtlSoxFan
As opposed to giving up rizzo + for a season and a half of gonzalez…
You’re not the only or with sellers remorse on rizzo
Honestabe
He’ll sign with the Cubs if Theo is still in Wrigley next winter.
GarryHarris
As much as I’m an admirer of DD as a GM, his failure to establish a good pen has sunk the BoSox. I’m not sure he ever will build a class pen. Since 1989, he’s never put together a great bullpen and other than Rob Nenn, he’s never brought up a stud closer. 2006 may have been his best pen overall but Todd Jones was a speeding train on a loose rail. Hopefully, DD proves me wrong and creates a class pen next season.
JoeBrady
DD didn’t really have an opportunity to establish a BP. Maybe at the beginning, but once the rotation was prioritized over the BP, there was no money left.
AtlSoxFan
You just reinforce the point. It wasn’t John Henry negotiating with the rotation handing out contracts. DD made the conscious decision to take money that should be allocated to the BP, and shift it to the SP
hozie007
What isn’t being discussed or looked into is why the entire starting rotation has an ERA more than 1 run above last year or their career averages. What has changed? Who changed it? and Why haven’t they been fired? ……
JoeBrady
It’s been discussed. The idiot press spent 3 months blaming the BP. For the last ~ two months, it was the rotation.
Even the rotation was odd. Sale, Price, and Porcello were running real well for 6-8 weeks, and all three went off the rails over the past 5-6 starts. It’s an odd coincidence. It feels like the entire league sees something we don’t see.
Metman34
The dudes got a 1-4 record with an 8.01 ERA since coming to Boston. Something needs to change
Show Me Your Tatis
Get that “1-4 record” out of here Metman34! W/L record for pitchers is IRRELEVANT!
Jeff Zanghi
Have to admit… he looked pretty solid in his first relief appearance getting the save in last night’s game. Maybe he can actually turn things around and establish himself as a solid RP – though my guess is he still wants to start — I think that at this point in his career he may want to consider trying to transition to relief, especially if he can replicate what he did against the Indians earlier. Not saying he’s the second coming of Mariano Rivera BUT he could become a RH version of Andrew Miller — albeit probably not quite as good as Miller was at his absolute peak. Though other than Miller becoming almost unhittable for a couple of seasons… they do profile as very similar pitchers. Just Cashner is RH whereas Miller was a lefty… the FB is still there for Cashner and hey maybe in shorter appearances he can harness it and be effective! It’s worth a shot if nothing else right?