Last night’s walkoff victory against the reeling Cubs aside, the Pirates are mired in a deep funk. They started the second half in free fall, going 6-25 as they’ve dipped from the fringes of the playoff race to (at one point) twenty games under .500. The Pirates have been involved in multiple on-field conflicts, with manager Clint Hurdle stealing focus as he spars with other managers within the NL Central. Hurdle has a well-known strategic proclivity towards pitching up and in – with which certain managers haven taken issue when Pirates hurlers struggle with their command. As a team, they rank 24th out of 30 in BB/9 with a team average of 3.58 BB/9.
Perhaps more worrying to the organization, in-fighting has become a hallmark of this Pirates squad, per The Athletic’s Rob Biertempfel. Mercurial reliever Keone Kela is the source of at least some of the conflict. Kela not only inspired the trade deadline fracas with the Reds by throwing behind Derek Dietrich, but he also took a two-game suspension earlier this season for his part in a clubhouse altercation with performance coach Hector Morales. The Buccos explored trading Kela, but ultimately failed to find a suitable deal, and it’s safe to wonder whether his trade worth took a hit, either from recent suspensions, injury history, or a reputation as a difficult clubhouse personality.
On the field, Kela missed too much time to raise his stock, returning from the injured list for just four appearances before the deadline. That put him at 18 appearances on the season with a 3.45 ERA and 17 strikeouts over 15 2/3 innings. Fine numbers not far off from Kela’s career norms, but clearly not compelling enough to drive significant trade interest.
Only a week after Kela’s incident, bullpen coach Euclides Rojas drove a pre-game on-field dust-up with reliever Kyle Crick. The incident nearly turned physical before the two men were pulled apart. Crick had been publicly bemoaning perceived preferential treatment given to closer Felipe Vazquez by the coaching staff.
Birtempfel notes that the clubhouse lacks the veteran leadership provided over the years by vets like A.J. Burnett, David Freese, Josh Harrison and Andrew McCutchen, or more recently from Jameson Taillon and Francisco Cervelli, who have been absent due to injuries.
It’s not all doom-and-gloom for the Pirates, however, as Crick insists there’s a growing camaraderie among this exceptionally young group of Pirates players.
The depth of conflict reported here certainly pulls back the curtain a touch further than usual. Not necessarily evidenced here, however, is the Pirates clubhouse being any more or less destructive than a typical clubhouse enduring a tough stretch on the field. Fangraphs Ben Clemens recently wrote this of the 5-24 stretch that opened the Pirates’ second half:
“Think of it this way: the worst team in baseball since World War II, by winning percentage, was the expansion New York Mets of 1962. They were cover-your-eyes awful, going 40-120, a .250 winning percentage. Let’s assume, despite its absurdity, that the Pirates suddenly transformed to a team with a .250 winning percentage overnight. Their odds of going 5-24 or worse over a 29-game stretch would still only be 23%. Even the worst team in baseball history, in other words, would be unlikely to look this bad over a month of play.”
Any clubhouse might struggle with a degree of in-fighting while losing at that rate. Still, the Pirates seem more combative than your average team. Hurdle seems to set the tone there, and though the team could very well emerge from this season more galvanized as a unit, it’s a troubling environment in which to see the indoctrination of young stars like Bryan Reynolds and Mitch Keller.
sthecht
Time for Hurdle to go. His insistence of having pitchers throw up and in with no regard to player safety is enough for me. The front office hasn’t helped by turning their back to all the ugliness he has allowed to happen.
YankeesBleacherCreature
I just think the old “let’s fire up the club” line by inciting fracas isn’t working out. Sometimes it can but it’s probably reached the point where the entire coaching staff needs to be turned over so that players can regain some respect. And dump the rotten apples.
retire21
“with no regard to player safety “
Calm down, you’re clutching those pearls awfully tightly. Hurdle needs to go but there’s no point in making stuff up.
HalElliott
A few years ago the up and in Broke Goldsmith’s hand. And at that time the pirates pitching staff by far led the league in hit batters. It resulted in McClutchen being injured as retaliation.
So you can bury your head in the sand, but their hitting batters is well known through baseball.
retire21
I enjoy a good story too but you might want to look at team rankings of HBP and pitching “up and in”. Also, Archer did not hit Dietrich and Kela did not hit Dietrich.
Just because Joe Maddon and David Bell lose their minds and state a narrative, that doesn’t make it true.
brewcrewbernie
Hurdle is dirty and combative. I know this because I have 2 working eyeballs.
Jean Matrac
When a pitcher throws a ball behind a batter, he doesn’t get credit for not hitting him.
Mendoza Line 215
Hal-With all due respect this is an absurd statement.
The game you mention was in 2014 and Ernesto Frieri,who had just been acquired,and who did not have any control,threw a pitch that took off and sailed up and in to Goldschmidt.
Goldschmidt was classy enough to say in an interview that day or the next that Frieri was not throwing at him.
Of course Delgado the next day had to hit the Pirates best player ,McCutcheon,and probably broke a bone in his back,thereby putting him on the DL for the first and only time I believe.
This is a classic case of manipulating the facts to suit one’s arguement.
Frieri was released a few weeks later because he walked far too many batters.
tiredolddude
Always hilarious to see people bring Maddon into the conversation. He didn’t say a people when a dirty slide by Coglin ruined a guy’s career and even joked about it, but Cubs fans would have you believe he’s Mr High Road. Please. His guys crowd the plate and take away the inside black. In this era of millionaires pitching to fellow millionaires, they benefit from it repeatedly. Wonder what Gibson, Ryan and Pedro would say, let alone Bruce Kison
STLCards33
It’s true though. He doesn’t care. You don’t have to be a genius to see that. It’s a part of who he is and how he manages
Colorado Red
Sooner a latter, a team is going to throw a Bell’s head.
Throwing at the head has to stop.
Yes, DD was wrong in watching the home run fly out of the park.
So you plunk him, in the ribs, not at the head.
Then, it is done. You do not keep doing it.
With the increased concern over player safety, if these keeps up, Hurdle should be banned.
Lets Go DBacks
I cannot believe people still justify a 90-95 mph in the ribs as a nice retaliation for looking at a homerun. What is up with walk off celebrations then? Besides, if a pitcher is not able to command his fastballs, who says the one he aims at the ribs does not go up to the head.
Beat Em, Bucs
Stop inciting violent retaliation as an excuse for failure. Go fight him in the parking lot like a “real man” if your that upset about a guy watching a homer.
woodrow25
He needs to go and so does Huntington
balboa10
U don’t have a clue what ur talking about
Mendoza Line 215
Hurdle should go but not because of throwing “ up and in”!
Bob Gibson rode to the HOF from throwing inside.
Hurdle wants to keep batters off the plate.Others have done it before.
Madden is a crybaby,and David Ross is berserk.I am glad that ML noticed that in his six game suspension.Hurdle got two games.Archer did not hit Dietrich,just threw behind him.
Kela is just too stupid to know any better.Hurdle did not tell him to throw it over Dietrich’s Head.
I have never seen this writer before but I find the article interesting.
The bottom line for the Pirates is that they do not have any,leaders anymore to stifle some of this stuff behind the scenes.No one.
And Crick is very lucky to be in the ML because of all the crap that the Pirates have in AAA.Let him pitch like Vazquez to get some of the perks.He should have been optioned out two months ago but they only have worse in AAA.
Skeptical
Please, please, please, fire Hurdle. Hurdle has to go. His in-game managing is terrible. It sounds as if he has lost control of his players and the team. Please fire him yesterday if not sooner.
h0wmyd0ing
My Buccos are just embarrassing….
The owner… the GM… the coach…
Lack of veteran leadership is a symptom of the real problem: Bob Nutting.
clemente3000
I question the number of injuries to the pitching staff. It is Tommy John U. Starters and bull pen missed a ton of games. This is all under leadership of GM, Manager, and pitching staff.
Time to shake up the organization. Problem is the ownership tight fisted spending eliminates attracting good candidates.
angelsinthetroutfield
Do they blow it up? It’s something that they have to entertain at the very least.
Pittsburgh has some strong pieces to build around but their ownership/business model prevents them from the deep end of free agency. SP is an area of need and I don’t see anywhere else they can get impact players apart from the top end of that market. That Archer hasn’t performed at an elite level really handcuffs them.
manos
Kela has no business in a major league dugout. He’s a grown man and needs to learn to act like one. I don’t care how talented he is, managers and GMs alike need to set a precedent and show everyone there’s no room on a major league club for a baby with a temper. Go toil in the minors until you can learn to be an adult.
Strike Four
Read this after I posted, couldn’t agree more. Kela has a UFC mindset, not a baseball player one. He needs to start meditating or something, he always thinks everyone wants to fistfight him even if you only asked him the time.
A great vast majority of players are the absolute nicest people you will ever meet. No joke its seemingly like 99.5% of players are warm and friendly off the field. Kela is not one of them.
woodguy
He should try football, he’ll fit right in
Yankeepatriot
It’s sad that the passionate fanbase of the pirates has to deal with that awful and cheap ownership smh. They don’t deserve revenue sharing at all
66TheNumberOfTheBest
I do feel bad for all 78 of them.
Strike Four
Pirates, Rays and A’s ownerships are beyond terrible and MLB needs to force them to spend money on players or force the cheapskate owners to sell.
YankeesBleacherCreature
They’re part of the baseball economy. You can contract these teams but that will mean less games and an even tighter travel schedule. A necessary evil if you must.
smrtbusnisman04a
There needs to be significant improvement to the pitching staff this offseason. The organization can’t try to cut corners with spending like it did the past two off seasons. When your best pitcher is Joe Musgrove, there’s an issue. Now I’m wondering if they should pick up Chris Archer’s option for next year…
mcmillankmm
It’s not all on Hurdle…management has made some awful trades
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Can they forfeit the rest of the games for the season to save a few dollars?
ChiSox_Fan
That’s the only way the Cubs could salvage the last two games of the series this weekend!!
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Kyle Crick should really worry about Kyle Crick, not Felipe Vazquez.
Felipe Vazquez can throw that white ball over that white plate. Until Kyle Crick can do the same on a consistent basis, he should shut his mouth and worry about throwing the white ball over the white plate.
Vazquez could use Kyle Crick as a foot stool and that would be OK with me.
tiredolddude
Pretty clear that there is a great deal of young talent here that is mixed with some veterans like Cabrera and Liriano, and some guys who just need to be sent packing, like Kela and a great many in the bullpen
Let the kids play. Let them win, lose, lead and get comfortable as leaders in the clubhouse.
That the FO traded away Meadows, Glasnow and Baz away —guys who could’ve been huge in the rebuilding—is reprehensible and all too reflective of the problem. Yeah, Hurdle and his staff are out of touch, but it all starts with Nutting and his people
I’ve been around since Forbes Field days. I don’t think I’ll see a consistent winner ever under these guys
tylerall5
The Pirates have pieces. The lineup is solid, adding a second baseman with some power and maybe upgrading third would really make it a dangerous lineup. Acquire an ace in free agency and the Pirates can make some noise. But everything I said assumes ownership adds the money that they “saved” from moving Liriano with two prospects, Cutch, etc. etc. which won’t happen.
Colorado Red
scooter is available.
Played well 2 of the last 3 years. Injuries killed him this year.
Should be cheap.
tylerall5
Scooter is an option, but for some reason I seem to like Starlin Castro in a Bucco uniform.
steelerbravenation
Their top position prospect is a 3B
tylerall5
I’m aware, but is Hayes going to be ready by mid season to play major league third base on a daily basis? By upgrading third I’m not meaning acquire Kris Bryant. Moran is one of the worst, if not the worst, starting third baseman in the league. It wouldn’t take much to find an upgrade for Moran while still leaving a window for Hayes to seize the role.
tylerall5
Todd Frazier/Jedd Gyorko come to mind.
Mendoza Line 215
Moran is not even an average fielder but he hits very well with runners in scoring position.
He is a decent major league player and does not deserve the crap that he gets from many posters.
retire21
Agreed
PiratesFan1981
Why would you sign a 3B when you have Hayes in Triple A and waiting for his call up? He is a phenomenal defensive of player and fairly decent offensively. His offense is improving as he is maturing and learning the strike zone. I am curious what Hayes does offensively in a Pirates uniform. Defensively, he is gold glove caliber player.
As for SP, god knows Pirates need it. Mitch Keller is all they have and nothing beyond that. I believe Keller is your suitable #3 pitcher, maybe #2 if he hammers down his fourth pitch. Pirates need to add some top rotation depth and should have done with with a Marte or Vazquez trade in July. I think it should be time to rebuild the club and get some value back into the organization!
tylerall5
As I stated earlier, Hayes will not be up until at least June just for contract purposes. The options I listed would not prevent Hayes from taking over the position as both players can play other positions and be the right handed complement to Moran (Frazier can field first, Gyorko can field second and short per baseball ref). In case Hayes is not ready by June you have a respectable platoon that can continue on.
tylerall5
Not to mention lengthen the bench
chicagofan1978
Maybe the sweep this weekend will turn the season around for them. It’s probably too late for a division title but you never know in that little league division.
themed
Hey Chicago. Your new favorite team didn’t fair to well last night. And yes hope the sweep happens.
chicagofan1978
National league team. My favorite team won. The wildcard team is gonna have a better record than that joke division.
themed
I see your a White Sux fan. I usually like those fans.
chicagofan1978
I’m glad you don’t like me. You add nothing to articles. I usually like smart people
WillieMaysHayes24
A White Sox fan making fun of another division…..oh how I love irony.
Jonny5
Pot, meet kettle.
billbucs
Awe!!! Enough of the Meadows, Glasgow, Baz crap!!! Meadows is tanking, Glasgow is hurt and Baz means nothing to nobody until he does something in the majors!
I do agree it’s time for Hurdle to go.
I also believe that they have a good bit of talent at both majors and minors. But a change in management can go a long way.
smrtbusnisman04a
Thank you!
Captain Jack
If you think Meadows is tanking, what do you think of Polanco??
Meadows is hitting .280, 20HRs, .518 SLG, leads the Rays in RBIs, has 10 stolen bases in his first full season and can actually field.
Glassnow may be hurt, but he sure looks like a monster starter since the Rays scraped the sinker for a cutter.
I know I would like all 3 back. Baz is a top 50 MLB prospect, sure he might not pan out but that’s a king ransoms haul for Archer who can hardly go 5 innings.
tiredolddude
Well said. The Archer trade was a reach to begin with, without giving away the farm, and having watched Meadows play over the course of the season, the absurdity of dealing him is clearer—almost criminal I liked the upside of Glasnow from the start and it would sure seem that they gave up on him
Sorry to read there is nothing coming up past Keller in the minors that approaches the idea of being ready. Just incredible
Strike Four
Kela doesn’t belong in MLB. Just a true lunatic in every sense of the word. Something tells me he will be spending time in prison in his lifetime. He is just too quick to go to violence and thinks everyone wants to fight him. UFC is probably more his bag. He’s a nightmare to be around…
YankeesBleacherCreature
MLB is pretty forgiving. He needs to man up and apologize for his past mistakes and pledge to change if he wants to save his career. Or get blackballed.
billbucs
I still think they are fun to watch. And they have a good nucleus
Julio Franco's Birth Certificate
Clint Hurdle is an awful manager, who can’t strategize his way out of a Little League game. The Pirates have several young, exciting players, but their development will be ruined if they stick by Hurdle any longer.
Cut bait on both Hurdle and Neal Huntington, who is one of the most overrated GMs in the game, and bring in some fresh leadership.
Once the Marlins move on from Mattingly, the Bucs should take a long look at him. Maybe even Bannister from their Minor League system too. Then go get a GM from one the great, forward-looking Front Offices in Minnesota, Tampa, or Houston that are great at analytics.
Mendoza Line 215
I think it easier and more necessary to change Hurdle than Huntington.
NH has generally done a good job in trades and other transactions,but he needs to change his attitude on free agents.
They need to find several good young managerial candidates if they cannot find a good veteran one like when they hired Hurdle.
HarveyD82
“oh no, we suck again!”
Julio Franco's Birth Certificate
That has been the team motto since 1992.
Mendoza Line 215
Which also happens to be the year when money really started taking over baseball.
Down with OBP
Fangraphs taking liberties with the interpretation of statistics. Can you imagine a “the worst hitter in baseball history” and then comparing it to the odds a batter who is slumping?
Oxford Karma
Star Mitch Keller?
army123456
I am embarrassed by the pirates and owner bob nutting. What a disgrace ..
Beat Em, Bucs
Hurdle and his posse really do need to go. I like him, but he’s just not good at managing anymore. I figure NH could lobby ownership to keep his job under a new philosophy on the field. If you keep playing kids, they ain’t listening to grandpa. The dugout needs youth and enthusiasm, not Hurdle.
billbucs
Great pitching today but no clutch hitting.
carlos15
If you can’t pitch inside in a league with a record number of homers being hit than it’ll just continue to be more of a homer happy league. If you can’t pitch inside you can’t win.
retire21
This.
Plus some batters like Rizzo setting up in the strike zone, others wearing armor on elbows and upper arms and nearly all striding into the zone, all done in an attempt to own the outer half. Pitchers rightfully want to take the inner half to combat this approach. Bottom line is that both parties want all of the plate. I get it. Something has got to give.
greg7274
An idea: amend the HBP rule to not include any contact between the batters boxes. That area is safe for pitchers… and as such, the area directly above the batters box is safe for hitters. Any and all contact with a pitch, outside the batters box, by the bat or batter …is a foul ball from now on.
…and I agree on Rizzo. That d**che deserves every bruise he gets crowding the plate. Maddon has a lot of nerve criticizing another managers’ style… with all the plate crowding, and choreographed batter “timeouts”.
Dice 66
The shut out yesterday was the last straw for me ! Men all over the bases and nothing ? Complete joke.
tiredolddude
That game was lost in the 1st inning. Every so often, they get a solid start and wow, did they waste this one. Maybe they’ll get a chance to take in some LL games and get a clue today
66TheNumberOfTheBest
If you are going to do the time, might as well do the crime.
The Pirates should actually start throwing at people’s heads…maybe they will miss and hit the outside edge of the plate.