Even as their NL Central rivals landed improvements in the midst of a tight race, the Cardinals came away empty at yesterday’s trade deadline. Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch broke down the fruitless negotiating effort and the ensuing comments of Cardinals president of baseball operations John Mozeliak.
The Cards “explored starting pitching first and foremost,” said Mozeliak, with an eye to improving an underwhelming rotation. Presumably, they continued to engage on lefty relievers. There’s no indication whether the team contemplated position-player improvements, though there was certainly an argument to be made for some exploration on that front. The Cards are loaded with options, but the production at second and third base has been sporadic and center field has been a bit of a black hole this season.
While the St. Louis front office is no doubt keenly interested in breaking a four-year string of seasons that ended without postseason appearances, it wasn’t willing to bet the farm on 2019. Per Goold, the club wasn’t willing to give up outfielders Tyler O’Neill or Harrison Bader to rent Zack Wheeler down the stretch, as the Mets demanded. Neither were the Cards amenable to parting with top prospects Dylan Carlson and/or Nolan Gorman in order to pry loose a quality hurler with 2020 contract control, such as Robbie Ray or Mike Minor.
Given those stances, perhaps it’s less than surprising that nothing got done. Gorman and Carlson were obvious targets for other teams to pursue when the Cards came calling on good starters. The club’s other best prospect, catcher Andrew Knizner, is on the MLB roster at present and likely was also off limits. While we had seen indication that the Cardinals were dangling some young outfielders, including O’Neill and the just-promoted Lane Thomas, it seems that those pieces were not available under all circumstances.
Ultimately, the Cardinals did swing two deals with the Dodgers, adding recently designated reliever Zac Rosscup and sending out unwanted infielder Jedd Gyorko. They also claimed southpaw Adalberto Mejia in advance of the deadline. It’s tough to say that any of those acquisitions moved the needle, especially in comparison to the acquisitions of the rival Cubs (Craig Kimbrel, Nicholas Castellanos, David Phelps, Tony Kemp), Brewers (Drew Pomeranz, Ray Black, Jake Faria, Jordan Lyles), and even Reds (Trevor Bauer).
There certainly seemed to be room to improve. There’s an argument to be made that the Cards ought to have been more willing, in particular, to part with some of its young outfielders to make something happen. Then again, the winter St. Louis blockbuster has served to highlight some of the pitfalls in such moves. There will be a need for some of those players next season as well, with others perhaps still representing future trade fodder. And it’s hard to second-guess a team’s internal valuations on players it knows better than anyone might hope to from the outside.
As Mozeliak summed things up: “When you spend seven straight days in a room working on something, you tend to want to see something come out of it. So, there’s a high level of frustration, even for us. But we answer to people and have to be responsible for decisions that come out of it and we just didn’t feel we could get there.”
boats22
MO is a joke. Dewitt will never fire him and Girsch will be the fall guy.
uncle mike
I’ve stated the same thing Boat22. The shame of it is, Girsch is a great guy and a tremendous personality. I know him. He’s had some impact player deals set up of which Mozeliak has canned over the past 4 years because Mozeliak won’t part with minor league prospects for prove MLB Players. The Owners are so stupid!! Girsch has been asked to interview for several other GM jobs but likes St. Louis. He’ll be fired to cover up for Mozeliak’s eneptness!!!
myaccount
If this is true, sounds like Girsch’s fault for not leaving.
EndinStealth
I seriously doubt its true
FourTfour
As a lifelong cardinal hater, I feel like they have almost always been very good at drafting and cultivating talent. If Mozeliak wants to hang on to his talent, I’d trust that.
STL27
Who on their current roster was drafted and cultivated by Mo that impressed you?
STL27
*impresses you
jrad2007
Dakota Hudson, Knitzler, Wong, Hicks, Martinez, and Flaherty are a few. Plus they’ve traded guys that were drafted and developed like Weaver, Kelly, Lynn, Piscotty, Voit, Alcantara, Gallen, Pham, and the list goes on. So they have drafted pretty well but not traded well.
STL27
That’s a solid list of names and I should have articulated my comment better- my point was look at all the talent they’ve traded off their current roster. I do not trust Mo’s ability to evaluate and hang on to the right talent.
uncle mike
That’s very true STL27. Plus, jrad2007, Michael Girsch became the Assistant General Manager in 2011 if I’m not mistaken. His job was drafting the players you mentioned and minor league player development. So…..John Mozeliak has had no part of evaluating the players of whom you have mentioned. Girsch……then Girsch and Ludlow built the Cardinals minor league teams that won Single A, Double A and Triple A Championships in the same season. Mozeliak, at that time, was still making excuses for not having a playoff bound team, when all of them were drafted!!!!! You will not believe how many impact MLB players have slipped past the Cardinals because of Mozeliak’s tunnel vision. That is unless you know someone in the Cardinal Organization
FourTfour
So who have they lost that bums you out? I’m not trolling, just don’t keep track. Genuinely curious.
dfinmozarks
Wong, DeJong and Edman for starters. I recall a second baseman for the NYY named Bobby Richardson who was a similar whiz on defense and similarly mediocre on offense. Richardson was a 265 career hitter with no power (34 career HRs) in 12 years while Wong has a career BA of 258 with 65 HRs in 7 years). Richardson was nominated to the HOF. He was an MVP 6 times in his 12 year career. The biggest difference between him and Wong so far is that Richardson played for a team that was in the World Series almost every year while Wong has yet to be in one. DeJong has 62 HRs in under 3 years of play and his defense has improved each year. He’s on track to hit over 30 HRs this year.
live42day
What dfinmozarks? For starters Wong was picked off of first to end a World Series if I remember right his rookie season of 2013 against Boston.
So what the hell? I doubt any of your “facts” are true.
Bunselpower
This is like when you were a kid and that one pathological liar friend kept saying his dad worked with Bill Gates and he got to go to his house.
getright11
Nobody ever said that.
SocraticGadfly
What’s really funny? Or sad, on the part of Goold (and the other Mo fellators at the Post-Dispatch?)
None of them mention this guy who was available 6-7 weeks ago.
Name of Dallas Keuchel.
socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2019/07/st-louis-cardi…
batty
I read several Goold articles that mentioned Keuchel, in good ways, and that he should be sought. That said, Keuchel isn’t exactly mowing teams down as a Brave.
SocraticGadfly
No, not “mowing them down.” But Keuchel is certainly better than Waino and Wacha. Better than the version of Bader that just got sent to Memphis. Better than de Leon.
dfinmozarks
Socrates, perhaps Mo and Girsch saw something in Keuchal that convinced them that he wasn’t worth the boatload of money and long contract he demanded. He’s 3-4 with an ERA over 4 with the Braves. It’s not as though he’s not getting any support from the 1st place Braves hot offense.
its_happening
Do nothing, achieve nothing and someone’s head might roll.
Do nothing and make the playoffs, all is good.
Do something and achieve nothing, you’re fired.
Playing it safe in St. Louis.
Bunselpower
Please list out potential trades and a reasonable offer and I’d be glad to discuss!
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
There’s nothing to discuss in St Louis since about, oh…, 2011.
baseballpun
2013 NL Champions.
Bunselpower
Translation: I have no idea but still want to scream at the sky.
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
NLCS.. top achievement and ultimate championship to Cardinals fans.
GaryWarriorsRedSoxx
Translation: when a trade deadline breaks the hearts of the faithful.
frontdeskmike
Play Gloria.
“Gary: There’s nothing to discuss in St Louis since about, oh…, 2011.”
baseballpun
The real question is what a “reasonable offer” is, and when/if it makes sense to make an unreasonable offer.
The Astros overpaid for Greinke on paper. If they win the Series, who cares? See also the Cubs trade for Chapman.
Wheeler/Ray/Minor aren’t worth an overpay from anyone, with the possible exception of the Yankees, who’s lineup and pen might be enough to win with even mediocre pitching.
Even with the Cubs adding Castellanos and Kimbrel I think the Cards have about as a good a chance of winning the division as Chicago (and maybe Milwaukee). Adding Wheeler isn’t changing that math.
I can buy an argument that they should have been willing to overpay for Bauer or Thor…or Boyd/Greene…sounds like the Giants decided they weren’t going to move Bum and maybe Smith regardless. If you’re not going to get a legitimate leg up on Chicago and have a real chance at beating Atlanta and/or LA, don’t throw away Bader for 2 months of a 4th starter.
Bunselpower
Well said. There wasn’t anything there from what I saw.
STL27
The Cardinals could have dealt similar players/ prospects and gotten Bauer. Also, the ‘stros quietly won that trade with the Blue Jays to get Aaron Sanchez.
Payne Train
I don’t think so – didn’t they gibe up two good lefties to get stroman .
And reds weren’t going to deal with us – and the prospects that SD gave up are better than what we have (player per position)
STL27
I’m saying the Cardinals could have been the third team dealing with the Indians and Padres instead of Reds. So look at what the Reds dealt away- an okay OF on their major league roster (who’s a FA next year), a pitching prospect and a “stud” OF prospect. Seems like the Cardinals could have made that trade and started with an MLB caliber OFer, with more team control, and then maybe part with two lesser minor leaguers. I don’t know though- maybe not. My concern is that Mo isn’t even operating on the level of some of these other GMs. The Reds go out and make a blockbuster trade when they were what, 5 games back from .500? We were in first place and did nothing? Frustrating.
Payne Train
So to make a similar deal we would trade away Ozuna, Oniell and Ryan hesley for a year and a half of Bauer ?
Not arguing but that’s kinda the same trade and I don’t like it.
I think they dug themselves in this hole from FA this last offseason (the lack of signing a starter) and now they are almost forced to sign Bum, Cole, or Kiechel this offseason
Cardsfanatik redux
I love the idea of signing Cole this offseason. I hadn’t thought of that. I kind of feel dumb for it. But I’d rather have Cole signed than to give up multiple for Thor. I love Thor, but he’s not tearing it up this year, and he’s been hurt quite a bit. I was never in love with Bum, he’s not the Mad Bum of 2015-16. Ray or Bauer would have been nice, but not at the cost of the top 3 in our farm. I’m on the Cole offseason train now. Nice thought.
STL27
I was thinking Jose Martinez instead of Ozuna- figured the extra year of Martinez would be appealing to the cost-conscious Indians. But, you’re right, Ozuna is a better comp to Puig. Also, I don’t think it would have been O’Neill with Hesley- maybe a lesser OFer with him or worse prospect with O’Neill. Regardless, if that’s truly the only deal the Indians would take, I would have passed as well (I would not have traded Ozuna and ONiell).
To your point below about wondering if something could have been done in regards to the bullpen- same thinking here. I just can’t help but think something could have been put together to get Bauer. Maybe not though.
Agree about last off-season. This team has needed a frontline starter since they lost out on Price. I guess it’s Cole or bust this winter…
Bow0509
Wheeler is better than any of our starters right now. Trading Bader or O’Neill, when we have an abundance of outfielders, would’ve been worth it. Bader is in the minors. Hasn’t hit all season. Not like he’s going to be a hall of famer. We overvalue our prospects. Mo gave away Gyorko and money for nothing. Mo has been a joke for the last few years.
dfinmozarks
Bow wow. Mo didn’t give away Gyorko, he traded off a guy who has a 13 MM contract and hasn’t had 60 ABs so far this year because of injuries. Besides that we have a slick fielding decent switch hitting Edman, a decent fielding 300 hitting Munoz and a poor fielding worse hitting Carpenter who’s making 20 MM a year and hurt all on 3rd base in front of Gyorko.
live42day
My concern is that Mo is no longer respected by other teams because he over values his prospects. Take a proven MLB player over a prospect any day of the week.
Payne Train
I’ll be interested to see what the asking price was for Smith and Watson … not saying we had to get either one, but surely there was an affordable relief pitcher out there that we could have traded for and not had to give up much more than a top 10 internal prospect.
baseballpun
You get the sense that the GIants weren’t really interested in moving them – I don’t know if they’d be worth a reach any more than Wheeler/Minor/Ray would’ve been.
Payne Train
Yeah. The giants really have some big kahonas lol all those trade chips and they chose to go after the wild card … good for them !
its_happening
Not sure what was controversial about my statement. Cardinals did nothing, are afraid to do something and everyone wants to keep their job. They’ve already fired the manager so any wrong move puts their job in-jeopardy.
Although had Blue Jays ownership not punt away the Donaldson trade after the 2017 season your team would be finished.
DarkSide830
Cards are lucky they seem to be underpreforming in general. if they get a few pieces to get going the deadline’s goings on wolnt matter.
clepto
Thanks, Captain Grammar.
gfilla
Ridiculous. The front office is over-cautious. Seems like they are always hoping the prospects will turn into something and then they lose their value when they are average. It’s too bad Mo didn’t move on instead of Luhnow…or maybe it’s ownership not wanting to spend? The $39 million extension to Carpenter could have useful for pitching. Carpenter should have been moved to AL when his value was high 2 years ago.
hiflew
Giving up Bader for Zach Wheeler wasn’t worth it, but sending him down to Memphis is? How does him sitting in AAA help the team? Does Mozeliak think teams will just give you good starting pitchers for nothing? It’s a lot easier to find another outfielder than to find a starting pitcher to help you win in the postseason.
Dotnet22
Not sure I understand that logic. Sending him down to AAA can help him while not hurting the club. Therefore helping the club in the future if he can figure out how to recognize pitches.
myaccount
Some people just don’t get it.
MooseMichaels
I think what’s he’s saying is it seems to easy to part with an outfielder whose batting .198 because no matter how good the defense is, that offensive production doesn’t fly. Truth of the matter is the Cards should’ve picked either him or O’Neill to take a chance on Wheeler. Plenty of outfield depth to cover that.
EndinStealth
If it was truly that easy to land Wheeler he would have been traded somewhere. I get a kick out of these rumors.
Bunselpower
it’s also easy to look at .198 and think that is reflective of talent. No one expects Bader to have an OPS over .900, but the sophomore slump is a real thing and unlike other guys, Bader still has positive value even without a bat in his hands so you can afford to wait for him to figure it out. His talent is worth much more than 10 starts of a mediocre pitcher.
BartoloHRball
I’m pretty sure those “10 starts of a mediocre pitcher” are going to be far better than whatever #5 STL runs out there from now to the end of the season. Here is where Wheeler is currently:
3.64FIP, 23rd in MLB. Bumgardner is 24th, Luis Castillo 25th, and Verlander is 26th.
2.7WAR, 24th in MLB. Mike Minor is 28th, Bumgardner is 31st, Tanaka is 34th, and Robbie Ray is 43rd.
The cardinals starters (at least 50IP)
Mikolas: 4.24FIP 1.7WAR
Wainwright: 4.26FIP, 1.6WAR
Flaherty: 4.40FIP, 1.6WAR
Dakota H: 5.40FIP, 0.2WAR
Wacha: 5.85FIP, -0.2WAR
It’s fair to say that Wheeler would have been a significant upgrade.
hiflew
I’m sorry if you don’t understand it, but that doesn’t make it wrong. It does hurt the club. Because now instead of sending Zach Wheeler (or someone else) to the mound every 5 games, you are sending an inferior pitcher.
Besides, having too many outfielders is still going to be a problem in the future. Using a surplus position to help a current need is what trading is all about. Can you understand that?
tdtd1515
I don’t think you understand we basically have a Wheeler on our team. His name is Michael Wacha. Wheeler might present a slight upgrade, but not enough at the expense of Bader or TO. Fans have lit up the front office for trading Voit, this could be the same as TO. You don’t trade people at there lowest value which is where Bader is right now. Optioning him down to the minors and not bringing him back up this year will allow 1 more year of control.. The other “surplus” in Fowler (nobody taking that contract), Ozuna (need him if we were trying to make run) Martinez ( not a CF that mets need and generally regarded as a defensive liability) and Thomas (to much of an unknown) So do you understand how this doesn’t hurt the club by holding on? Trading for the sake of trading doesn’t help this team. Now if it would be someone who is controllable for another year or two, different story. But for a rental, that is stupid.
uncle mike
Good point Dotnet22.
allweatherfan
Wheeler for 2 months isn’t worth it. We have enough mediocre, 4 ERA starters now. Not to mention he just recently returned from injury. They need an Ace.
hiflew
The problem is that St. Louis didn’t have enough ammo to get an ace. If you can’t afford a Ferrari, it doesn’t mean you should walk. Go ahead and get the Chevy and at least it is a little better than before.
baseballpun
Nah. It’s more like not wanting to spend money on a decent couch, so you buy some piece of crap IKEA knock-off and in 3 months all you have is a broken couch and you’re spending more money on another one anyway.
tdtd1515
Just because it is a chevy doesn’t mean that it isn’t still overpriced and ready to break down at any time. Walking still can get you to where you need to go and keeps your ammo to get that Ferrari later.
dfinmozarks
Hi flew. Do you think any team is going to give up a good pitcher for an OFer hitting under 200 even if he is a fine fielder and fast on his feet? You have to get on base for that speed to help on offense. I like Bader but his hitting has gone down ever since the team brought him up and he can’t lay off balls he can’t hit. His BB/K rate has always been lousy.
bigcheesegrilledontoast
If Mo really wanted to make something happen, it would be done. Seems like due diligence to appease a frustrated fan base. With like 6, 7 outfielders I think the Cards couple part with a couple. Maybe signals his intention not to extend Ozuna.
barkinghumans77
3 years have ended with a postseason. This would be 4 but they’re in position to possibly end that.
baseballpun
I think there’s a lack of creativity here. Basically, they were just looking at the same 3 names everyone else was. If they wanted to really go for it, they could’ve found a way to get an impact player. I don’t think Wheeler, Minor or Ray would’ve moved the needle much anyway, so if those were the only options, I’m not upset they stood pat. I just wish they explored better options.
batty
Who were those options? The Mets were never trading Thor this deadline. They were gauging interest from teams for a possible off season trade.
klkerr
There is really no such thing as Girsch he is MO’s Puppet . This team is what it is with MO running it. MO would be a wonderful politician with his lies and beating around the bush when he is asked questions when you more confused after his answer than when you asked it. And there is always his classic MO answer “ I like our team right now and where we are at” Yes he has added Ozuna and Goldschmidt but nothing around them a piece here a piece there. Let’s face it Cards organization has settled cause 40,000 people will still be there in the seats.
ChrisEnvy76
The Cardinals don’t have what it takes to win the division. The Cubs have been underperforming all season, especially on the road and if they put it together, The Cardinals don’t stand a chance. The Brewers have a better team as well.. making no moves to improve just put them in 3rd at best.
baseballpun
The Cubs haven’t been under-performing any more than the Cardinals.
earmbrister
Beep beep. The Reds are coming thru.
metsie1
When did the Mets “demand” Tyler O’Neill or Harrison Bader? Could they have discussed acquiring them? Possibly. Demanded? Yea, I don’t think so. Teams are just risk averse at this point.
Bunselpower
I think it was when Girsch called them and asked them, “Can we trade for Wheeler?”
tbone0816
I hope we do something this offseason then!!
baseballpun
They’ve made big moves the last two offseasons. They’re going to need to figure out the outfield and get a pitcher.
h0wmyd0ing
Hold up…. they wouldn’t give up Bader for Wheeler?
Say what?
Bunselpower
A tremendously talented center fielder with 5 more years of control for 10-11 starts of a 4.71 ERA pitcher? Yeah, I’m not doing that either.
BartoloHRball
Wheeler is 24th in the majors for starting pitchers with a 2.7WAR…the highest WAR of a Cardinals’ pitcher is Mikolas at 1.7WAR.
Wheeler is 23rd in FIP, and ranked ahead of Mikolas 3.64FIP to 4.24FIP……0.6 difference is huge. The Mets defense has been atrocious, which is why Wheeler’s ERA is an ugly 4.71.
Whether or not that was worth Bader is a different discussion. I’d consider that a solid get by the Mets.
CJML
Cardinals have 4-5 solid outfield prospects and Fowler for a couple more years, Martinez for several years and Ozuna. How they don’t trade from that depth for a chance to win this year is shocking. As a cubs fan I am certainly not mad they did nothing. I mean it’s still a crap shoot the way the cubs have been hitting but I like their chances a lot better after deadline.
spudchukar
Well, I wouldn’t have given up Carlson for Grienke, so there is that. But I fully expected almost anyone else for Ray, including Reyes. Even Gorman, who is not the most athletic of guys. If O’Neill was the stumbling block, then they stumbled. Hard to believe they couldn’t put together some package to land him.
Payne Train
I’m not mad that they didn’t overspend for a pitcher – our prospect list is not very deep at all right now. The few good prospects that we have will have to replace our aging core – Fowler, Carp, Molina and so on – so I get it …. what frustrates me is that we didn’t make a move for a decent bullpen guy, left or right handed. That’s what pisses me off.
Bunselpower
Well, our bullpen is something like 6th best in the league? So that’s the problem, if you want to go up, you have to overpay and they really need to hang on to what they have.
Payne Train
We just added Mejia, and have played musical chairs with AAA for the first half of the season – hicks went down with his injury … your bullpen can never be good enough when your trying to win a division or a WS. Just saying – I’m curious to know if we could have given up an edmon sosa, or a arozerona (spelling) for a good, reasonable relief option.
Payne Train
That’s the thing – I’m glad they didn’t overpay for a name … just wonder what decent options were out there that we could have traded minor depth for . A player like Arozerona that won’t be brought up, should be a good trade chip for a decent relief pitcher … maybe pair him up with someone else to make it happen … we have soooo many average OF prospects that may be valuable to a non contender. Who knows ….
STL27
Totally agree.
uncle mike
I do like trades better than growing multi millions down the drain for multiple years such as Brad Cecil.
Payne Train
You can buy FA’s – you can’t really buy prospects (international being the exception). The Cards could afford to max out their salary all the way to the cap and be just fine …. but they will never do that, so they hold onto their prospects so they don’t have to spend more money.
Long story short, we have given some really odd extensions and Haven’t done very well at all in the FA market .
AirGuitar721
Not mentioned here, but I think Cingrani is the guy that should stick in the pen. I’m also disappointed in our lack of anything major getting done, but the return for Jedd Gyorko was really solid.
…also, I agree with those wishing we could move on from Mo. It’s been clear over the past handful of years that he doesn’t really have a plan for the club. It feels like he’s in a constant state of “well, let’s see what happens” and then failing to react adequately. He made two good moves this offseason in acquiring Goldy and signing Miller, but the negatives outweigh the positives, at least for me.
tdtd1515
Cingrani? You mean the guy who is on the IL for the remainder of the season and that is a free agent after this year? Gyorko netted nothing really but a 19yr old flyer on a kid. We gave up international slot money as well. So tell me again how this trade had a solid return?
Nick Stevens
Tdtd1515, please learn the sheeple way. If Mozeliak says it’s the right thing to do, then it’s Gospel. The sheep lifted their heads for 30 seconds, gave a blank stare, then went back to their grazing in the outfield grass.
AirGuitar721
…dude, what are you on? #1, I literally wrote right in the comment that I Mo shouldn’t be running the team anymore. #2, how did this turn into a really poor Animal Farm analogy?
stan lee the manly
It’s his standard rhetoric. He’s not a fan of a team, he’s just an anti-fan of this one for one deep-seated, psychological reason or another
Nick Stevens
Ben, did you even read who my comment was aimed at? Tdtd1515. Not you.
Nick Stevens
Stantheliberally, I love this typical liberal spew. If people don’t agree with your line of thinking, they must have psychological issues. Great analysis. I’m also a racist, homophobe and bigot. I must be, because I’m not a left wing, liberal.
AirGuitar721
I was replying to tdtd15blahblah. Geez. People on here are super aggressive.
AirGuitar721
Also dude, nobody mentioned politics. Take that stuff elsewhere. This is baseball.
Nick Stevens
STFU
stan lee the manly
This has literally nothing to do with your opinions, it’s the fact that you feel the need to attack people to get your point across. It adds nothing of value to the baseball conversation that people on these boards enjoy.
For the record, I’m very against the liberal left, I think those radical ideas are far more dangerous to the US than the far right. But that doesn’t really matter on a baseball forum does it?
stan lee the manly
Than even the far right*
dfinmozarks
Nick, then why are all your comments negative? Either aimed at the team, the F.O. or others comments. It’s easy to tell your a Trump loving conservative. You badmouth everyone and then lie, deny and obfuscate
AirGuitar721
Cingrani is controllable for another season, I think. But I wasn’t aware he was out for the rest of this year. Darn.
stan lee the manly
Cingrani is an unrestricted free agent after this season. He was included for salary reasons, that’s about it
tdtd1515
Knowledge is power.
Fred K. Burke
As a Cubs fan, but more importantly a baseball fan. I’m quite surprised and actually even disappointed for the Cardinal fans their organization didn’t make a move to improve. The NL Central is muddled in mediocrity. All the teams are underachieving for one reason or another. Considering the fact the Cardinal have not made the post season for 3 years I believed they would go for it by adding another starter and some bull pen help. Cingrani may help out. One last thing. I don’t believe the moves made by the Cubs and Brewers tip the balance of power. However, Bauer was a nice pick up by the Reds. This division race is far from finished.
cubshoops5
Cingrani is out for the season. He was included merely for salary matching purposes
dfinmozarks
Cubs GM I would agree with much of your comment except for the one about the central being muddled in mediocrity. The central is very tight but if you compare each teams W-L records against the east and the west it will open your eyes. Only the Bucs have a losing record to either of the other divisions.
DrewBass
In this case, doing nothing was probably a good thing. We need to get some guys healthy and they have to live up to their abilities and pay grade. I would love for St.L to do something about a few of our veterans in the off season…YM, AW and MW need to go. We have been hanging on too long to these guys and it is time to move on from all of them.
batty
is “MW” Matt Wieters? Because he’s in his first season as a backup. Now, if you had said’MC’ i think that would have been correct.
Thing is, Yadi isn’t getting traded or released. They won’t eat a $20MM salary. Waino just needs to be phased out. If he comes to the FO with a desire to re-up, just change the subject and feign an important meeting to get to. Extending Carpenter was, imo, the most foolish move this FO has ever made. Whether it was DeWitt, Mo or whoever, there was absolutely zero need for it.
uncle mike
I think he meant Michael Wacha for MW. Not Matt Weiters. I also agree with you about when Matt Carpenter comes back!!! Everybody knows Mozeliak will tell Schmidt to play him because if the money the Cardinals have invested in the future 2 seasons!!
dfinmozarks
Batty. 100% correct. For whatever the reason, Carp hasn’t earned his pay for at least 3 years excluding that very hot 6 week stint last summer. If you excluded that streak his season average would have been well under 200 and his fielding has never been even mediocre. Why they gave him that rich extension defies logic.
diddlez
I’m tired of reading this same article year after year. I really wish they would fire that clown and bring in a guy who wants to win.
dfinmozarks
Diddle the answer to that is easy. DeWitt is worth about 800 million and it’s all been acquired in owning sports franchises. He no doubt would enjoy another WS ring but not if it would put any of his wealth at risk. So Mo does what he can with the budget the owner allows him and that is limited on if it will keep those seats filled with fans eating grossly overpriced junk food and drinking beer that’s marked up about 1500%.
fannclub6
I’m frustrated as well. But given what has happened with some of our past moves and signings it’s hard to blame them. The list is long… Cecil, Greggorson, Holland, Fowler, Ozuna just to name a few. Then you see Mercado play well in Cleveland and Alcantara make the All star team.
Seems we pass on ones we should have signed like Donaldson and sign ones that don’t pan out. But it isn’t for lack of trying.
baseballpun
I’m not as down on the FO as a lot of fans but all that is more an indictment on the FO than a defense.
I wouldn’t put Ozuna in that list of moves that didn’t work out. Ozuna’s been fine – the only question in my mind is if they “chose” Ozuna over Yelich after Stanton nixed the deal for him. And what the Marlins were demanding for Yelich. As great as Yelich is, I’m glad they didn’t trade Flaherty for him (which I think they would’ve had to for Yelich). Milwaukee is proof that Yelich can’t get it done on his own if you don’t have pitching.
dfinmozarks
Baseballpun. I like Ozuna’s bat but we definitely should have gone for Yelich if he was available at that time. The reasons are many fold. Yelich had 5 years of control at a lower salary and he was younger than Ozuna. Ozuna had 2 years of control. Yelich was healthy and Ozuna had a bad shoulder that will severely limit his defensive value. He may never be able to throw well again. He’s already had shoulder surgery and still can barely reach a cutoff man. It cost us 4 high grade prospects with 16 years of affordable control for 2 years at 13 M per year for Ozuna.
theoepsteinhof
That’s perfect logic right there. If you screw up a trade or FA signing, then just stick your head in the sand. It would never make sense to keep trying if you failed before!
Riontyler
The issue is the teams leadership is not willing to do what it takes as buyers and as sellers. The chance of the cardinals making it past the wildcard game is slim. If by some glorious luck they make it to the W.S., whatever A.L. team they are up against, will make them look silly. Even before Houston upgraded, they overmatched the cardinals.
Someone should have raised their hand and politely mentioned the idea of cashing in on players that are F.A. after this season. Stock up the farm and use that to make impact moves next season. Up until now, Ive been one of the fans screaming for them to make impact moves but it is clear as day they are unable to pull the trigger- right or wrong. Yes it would be selling low on anyone shipped out but let’s face it, this is 1 more season that will end before the postseason begins.
They need to do something because this crap is getting ridiculous. Mo should be moved to another role, like 5th assistant to the assistant GM. Bring in some fresh perspective.
STL27
Great point- honestly, I would have been much happier to see them “sell” and position themselves for next year than I am right now.
stan lee the manly
All they have to do is win the division and they are past the wildcard game. That’s extremely doable this year.
Nick Stevens
The MoGirsch stupidity train rolls on. Bader Or O’Neill for Wheeler and they say, “No?” SDMF they are.
CJ81
Those guys have lots of potential and years of control. Id say no to that too for just a third of a season from a pitcher witb his current season. But…. it still makes you wonder if there were other offers that could get it done. Like what about arozarena if we aren’t going to give him a chance. Or montero who may be blocked by gorman in 2 years. Either of them with another #10-20 peospect would be fair for a rental.
Maybe the Mets really did say them or nothing because NY is intent on competing next year. If so then I guess I can’t really blame Mo.
its_happening
Let’s say O’Neill was dealt for Wheeler….Have you seen Memphis’ farm? O’Neill could probably be replaced by Arozarena or Mieses and nobody would have noticed. Add Ozuna being activated in a few days and you now have a near-full team with an extra arm.
Cards had enough to get Stroman and I’m sure Molina would have gotten the best out of him.
CJ81
If you think wheeler is that much of a help then yes I agree. Maybe they really believe Oneil is that much better than those other OF prospects. I personally think oneil is just a slightly better version of grichuk so I would not have minded him traded. Im just not sure wheeler is that much of an upgrade. You brought up stroman and I think thats fair because mets did not give up any household name prospects. On a similar note, an even better starter in bauer could have probably been traded for as well. Oneil and jose martinez plus a top 10-15 sp prospect would be pretty much the same thing cleveland got. But thats if you think ozuna is coming back soon and one of the minor leaguers (arozarena or thomas, bader in a bit) is really ready.
Nick Stevens
O’Neill is not good. His current avg. exit velocity is 89mph. For his so called power that is average. His K rate is high. His walk rate low. All his numbers exceed his expected numbers. If every team is going to deal with analytics, this guy SCREAMS a dump candidate, and Bader isn’t far behind. The only thing saving Bader is his defense, and we all saw how that worked for Bourjos. It only lasts so long. This is a power league now. How long that will continue is not known, but 2 months of Wheeler for O’Neill should have been done.
its_happening
CJ if there’s one thing the Cards have proven over the years it’s their minor league development with under-the-radar player has been pretty good. Some key players in the last 20 years haven’t necessarily been free agents or 1st rounders (some, definitely not all). Lane Thomas, former Blue Jays farmhand, turned his career around thanks to the Cardinals and not the Blue Jays minor league staff. Numbers prove it.
Apparently Ozuna is back inside of a week and heading for a rehab stint. I am sure they could have survived a week with one of the players I mentioned. Arozarena is raking out of his mind!
dfinmozarks
Wereall. Have you been following Memphis? They are a shadow of that great team that Girsch put together and Clapp managed in recent years. That well is about dry
its_happening
They have 2 performing OFs justifying a callup and won’t be called up due to the logjam of OFs in St Louis. Understandable. Shadow or not, Cards could have parted with O’Neill. No question about it. And Ozuna has been activated today. All would have worked out.
Payne Train
No way I would give up Bader or Oniell for Wheeler . Why would you give up anything for a guy that’s coming off of an injury, due to hit FA and isn’t that great . I believe his ERA is 4.71 on the year ?
Why would you consider giving up 4-6 years of control over guys that have a ton of upside given they are only in their early 20’s.
And lastly, the biggest reason why it would be dumb to do so is … wait for it ….. Wheeler isn’t the difference in winning a WS or not for the Cardinals … so why trade for him knowing that you may increase your odds by like 3 percent ….
crazylarry
Enjoy the WORLD SERIES on TV again. They don’t care you still pack the stands and watch on TV. Revenue is Sky High and it is a business.
beetlejuice
This front office can’t make trades due to a mediocre farm system, who’s responsible for building the farm system? Things won’t change until you STL fans quit buying tickets.
Paul Heyman
Here we come for another 3rd place finish and more than likely another year without the playoffs!
tdtd1515
What?
azelch99
Mo better give up is first born son to Gerrit Cole in the Offseason. We need an ace starting pitcher. if your not gonna spend prospects, then dust off your wallet and get him.
blueurge
I understand MoGirsch’s stance on not making a deal just to make a deal. That being said, the job is to make deals to improve the team. If they can’t do that then they need to be better at their job. How can other GMs constantly improve their teams year in/out but the Cards are handcuffed? Easy answer, the GMs aren’t good at their job. Have they lost the respect of their peers? Has Mo’s arrogance finally caught up with him and GMs don’t want to work with the Cards? Has their negotiating been poor? Maybe they lack good negotiating skills to begin with. Idk, but the point is that they aren’t good GMs anymore.
Dbird777
Then again, the winter St. Louis blockbuster has served to highlight some of the pitfalls in such moves.
What pitfalls? The fact that you actually have to give up something of value to get something of value? When you make a bold move like that in the offseason and don’t back it up at the trade deadline, it makes you look half-hearted.
theoepsteinhof
Just read Goold’s story about the lack of moves from Mo. What stands out to me is Mo’s reasoning which basically says that if he makes a bad deal, the fan base will scream. So, better not to risk a clunker and piss of the fans.
Whatever happened to making decisions for the good of the team rather than worrying about the fan reaction?
troll
correction, three year string of missing the playoffs
kiddhoff
If the goal is winning the World Series, it makes no sense to overpay when you know theres only 3 teams with a legitimate chance of going anyway. The real mistakes were 1)going after the wrong Marlins OFs last year, and 2)not signing one or both of Keuchel and Kimbrell cheap when they saw they were in the thick of things.
tominco
I wonder if the brains behinds earlier successes was Jeff Luhnow and not Mo.
uncle mike
I’m like you!!! I believe it was Jeff Luhnow!! Been going down hill ever since he left. So much was thought of Luhnow by the Cardinals front office that Astrogate followed. And…..You can’t make me believe that Mozeliak knew nothing about it!!!
uncle mike
Can’t watch the Cardinals on TV because Disney Enterprises is trying to scalp the Networks. Mozeliak can’t or won’t do any trading for a #1 or #2 starting pitcher. No one in the Cardinals Front Office or Ownership are trying to do anything to help this 2019 team!!! Yet…..Since Carpenter has been out, this team has worked its way to First place!!! Let’s see what Mozeliak mandates when Carpenter comes back????
dfinmozarks
Uncle Mike. Naturally, they will bench the slick fielding good switch hitting and fast running rookie Edman and the other rookie Munoz who has an arm like a gun, plays everywhere and is hitting 300 in order to play their 20MM non producing Carp who went down batting 200 and is 0 for his last 26 ABs in AA and AAA.
dfinmozarks
I wonder how much of that is due to Disney or Fox? We haven’t had a decent regular TV announcer since Buck other than Jim Edmonds and he’s only used as a color man. He’s got more baseball savvy and a much better sense of timing and pointing out good plays or miscues than either their of the other motor mouths they have — McLaughlin or Thompson. That seems to point a finger more at Fox than Disney since Fox hires the announcers. I find it particularly dumb to have a guest like the Blues coach up in the booth doing an extended interview over 2 innings or more during a close Cards game.
uncle mike
The Host of MLB Radio this morning listed many currently prominent Former Cardinal players who have been traded away for basically nothing. They brought the point out that Mozeliak over rated his prospects. Plus the fact that Mozeliak has obligated Cardinals to pay millions upon millions of dollars into bad, lengthy, no account player contracts. On Some of those bad contracts, the Cardinals are paying the salaries for players who are currently playing for other teams. Bottom line is the Host of MLB Radio are knowledgeable Baseball people. Most are former MLB General managers. All questioning the current integrity of John Mozeliak as the Cardinals President of baseball organization. In their terms——- Mozeliak’s actions or lack of action and poor evaluations of his own players, plus poor evaluations of players he puts on extended contracts are leading to many nonfavorable Questions of Mozeliak’s own accountability.
moe 3
I heard this also and as a over 50 year cards fan I agree mo works scared and that’s no way to run anything
dfinmozarks
Moe. Ditto but I think there’s blame to go around a lot farther than Mo. I think the owner is involved in every high value trade and he makes his moves based more on money than talent.
uncle mike
Just the sight of Mozeliak’s picture at the top of this article makes Cardinals fans want to hurl!! Arrogance at its best!! President of Baseball operations at its worst!!
uncle mike
The only thing I hate about the Cardinals playing well right now against barely over .500 teams is the fact that the Cardinals won’t fire John Mozeliak.