The Pirates have long received calls on star closer Felipe Vazquez, but on deadline day the club is “listening more actively” than before, according to a report from Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (subscription link). A source even tells Rosenthal that it’s now as likely as not that Vazquez will be dealt today.
It’s tough to rely too much upon that anonymous prediction, but taken as a whole this report represents a notable — and rather sudden — shift in circumstances for an elite relief pitcher. Just yesterday, Rosenthal reported (subscription link) that the Pirates were “show[ing] little appetite for actually making” a deal on the high-powered southpaw, so much so that Vazquez “essentially is not available.”
The Bucs have quite understandably maintained a lofty asking price on Vazquez, who put it all together in his first full season in Pittsburgh (2017). His value only rose with a surprising extension that secured Vazquez’s financial future but conveyed a big bargain to the team. He’s earning just $4MM this year and a guaranteed $13MM over the next two campaigns. The deal includes a pair of $10MM club options thereafter (along with $1.5MM in total buyouts).
That looked like an excellent contract even before Vazquez found yet new heights in the current season. Through 43 1/3 innings this year, he’s not only sporting a 1.87 ERA but carrying peripherals that very nearly support that rarified level of performance. Still pumping upper-nineties heat, Vazquez has boosted his strikeout rate to 38.2%.
You don’t have to squint to see the value here, particularly given that Vazquez only just reached his 28th birthday. We’ll have to wait and see whether any team will dangle a significant-enough package to force the Pirates to make a move. But that now seems that’s a distinct possibility for a Pittsburgh organization that has almost no hope of making a postseason push this year.
cjones1348
Braves please! Last night proves the tremendous need
RunDMC
True, but maybe we just go get a bigger bat and increase the 6-run lead to a 10-run…lol. #anyonebutluke
A-A
#Tomlinthen?
Cave
Kelby! Kelby! Kelby!
lol he is not a power bat but he’s still my fave
vacommish
He should be atop the Braves closer wishlist. Not sure an OF needs to get added with Duvall and Inciarte there. Can the Braves pry Musgrove away in a package deal?
ebenezer nutting
Doubtful
Braves105
Josh Donaldson says NO!!
soxfan1
They just overpaid for Chris Martin. Not happening.
RunDMC
AA vs. his old bosses?
phillyphanatics
Here’s the question no one seems to be asking – to the Nats…was the couple of months of Melancon worth it?!?
smrtbusnisman04a
And After all that, they still couldn’t get past the Division round….
Big Poison
Having Felipe is a LUXury
aberdeen101
You realize Pittsburgh doesn’t need Lux, right? We would want Smith and May and something else. Not a one for one deal for a prospect that might bust.
graysondecker
The Pirates could certainly use Lux. He’s a very talented hitter, one you want to acquire regardless of where he plays. Newman could easily slide over to second base, Frazier could become a super-utility guy, and Lux would fit in right at shortstop. For his bat, you make things work.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Lmao pirates don’t need Lux.. ya ur right they’re completely set
ebenezer nutting
Very true. The Pirates have players at SS and 2B and they have prospects at those positions, but if you have a chance to bring in a player who could be Daniel Murphy right out of the gate, you don’t think twice about it. Lux is what the Pirates hope Newman and Tucker can become.
tylerdurden412
He is definitely gone. While the contract is affordable by baseball standards the reality is its alot of money back in Nuttings pocket. Cant say I blame him, I would run my business that way but for fans its frustrating. I guarantee, the return wont justify the trade.
phillyphanatics
What if the return is Dustin May, Keibert Ruiz and a low minors speculative player?
ebenezer nutting
Maybe. Ruiz puzzles me a bit as his offense has been marginal for a while now. Granted he is young for the levels he has played at, and he would become the Pirates top prospect. If the third prospect has the ceiling of a #1 starter or the tools of an all star on offense, but is 4 years away, I would take that deal.
Robertowannabe
@ebenezer nutting, Yes Ruiz’s offensive numbers are lagging but he is almost 4 years younger than the league average age in AA and still putting up respectable numbers. If he were 2-3 years older, then you would have a point about his numbers.
ebenezer nutting
I did mention that. Also mentioned even with the somewhat lagging numbers he would still be Pirates top prospect IMHO. Him and May and a lower minor leaguer with real upside would I think be the minimum it would take to get Vazquez.
Huntingtonsbrain
Smith, May, and Peters and I find it fair for both sides.
Huntingtonsbrain
My bad we will send you Diaz as well
79PitatesFan
No deal!!!!!
jimmyz
Even Nutting sees and appreciates the value of Vazquez’ contract. If the Pirates trade him by virtue of ownership mandated reasons it would be because the return is 3 or more league minimum players which means even less reason to sign any significant free agents.
dmere66
Then you would be out of business. A bad product sells little. Attendance has dropped and if it continues he will lose money. The Archer deal was forced because of it.
NuckBobFutting
Not true. Attendance has dropped but those fans not going to the game are still watching on TV. Pirates have one of the top local tv ratings in the league and have a 15% increase this year. If the ratings keep increasing that will lead to more money for Nutting in the next tv deal
Buccrazy
Good point, this is because pirate fans are all 80 years old
rondon
This guy is such a strong piece for a limited payroll team like the Pirates to build around. Unless someone seriously overpays, they should hold on to him.
clepto
Not wise to build around a closer ever.
jleve618
Only until the first time a team wins the WS by bullpenning.
79PitatesFan
True, but it’s wise to build around premium major leaguers, and that’s what Vasquez is!
Goku the Knowledgable One
Pirates are in bad shape. Not only do they have to rebuild but they have to knock down what’s left.
Huntington has done a terrible job assembling this roster
clepto
You and JLeve do not comprehend what is meant by “building around a player”.
English much?
dmere66
Build around a closer? That’s ridiculous. You have to WIN in order to use a closer.
benster04
pirates upper management has no clue…no team regardless of how good Vasquez has been is giving up their top prospects so the bucks once again will give him away. I get it, they don’t need a closer now bc they wont contend but he is controlled for several more years. so is management saying we will suck for another 5 years?
ebenezer nutting
Reality is saying that. Management doesn’t have to.
ThePriceWasRight
Vazquez Dickerson package to ATL for Carmago, Anderson, Contreras and Muller
A-A
OMG lol
That would be the most lopsided trade of the season
steelerbravenation
Vázquez & Marte to Atlanta for Riley, Anderson, Contreras & Tarnock
Backatitagain
Like the get for the Braves. What about sending Christian Pache, Atlanta’s top prospect, MLB #11, with ex-MLB top 100 pitcher, injured Luiz Gohara, with replacement relief pitcher Daniel Winkler and Ender Inciarte a more valuable and more palatable group.
Riley and Anderson are not going to be traded. Wright and other pitchers are a possibility.
Jaysthoughts
To get Vazquez you think of the prospects (yes at least 2) that you believe are off the table, and you trade them with more.
Black_Pearl
If you want Marte as well then the conversation starts with Pache, then Anderson and few other lower ranks players.
phillyphanatics
I think if ATL goes big, it will be with Arizona….Adam Jones, Chafin, Robbie Ray…maybe Holland thrown in
jackmarcus22
TWINS
dmere66
Interesting
libeast27
The Red Sox want Diaz so bad, where are they on Vazquez?
AtlSoxFan
On the sidelines wishing they had more trade chips
1090198
Need two ready prospect with a third a few years away. 3 good young players would be worth making a move. Also should sign Dickerson. He does everything right on and off the field. Stupid to let him go.
ChiSox_Fan
Colome a little cheaper.
hammer_time24
There is a reason Colome would come cheaper. He isn’t remotely as good as Vazquez
ebenezer nutting
Time to play the Braves and Dodgers against one another. Trade Vazquez to the Dodgers and the Braves likely have no shot at reaching the World Series. Trade Vazquez to the Braves and suddenly the Dodgers need to be very worried.
phillyphanatics
I think that is EXACTLY what is going on…very astute observation
RunDMC
True, but if you can pry the prospects away from AA’s cold dead hands, you’ll have accomplished a lot.
phillyphanatics
Agreed, but the Braves are run differently than the Dodgers.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Chris Martin is the Braves’ only pitching add and they try to get a rental OF on the cheap
Gwynning's Anal Lover
Surprised the Yankees aren’t in contention for Vazquez..
graysondecker
They already have Chapman, who is practically the same player as Vazquez, just paid far more
jopeness
never know, Pirates and Yankees have always been trade partners. but the price might be steep given all the injuries
libeast27
The Red Sox want Diaz so bad, where are they on Vazquez? Seems like an obvious move if they are that desperate for a closer. But for real, Workman is an in house option.
phillyphanatics
Red Sox don’t have the goods anymore…the Sale trade pretty much cleaned them out for the time being
AtlSoxFan
And what would you give that Pitwants?
phillyphanatics
Dodgers are the only team deep enough with prospects willing to pay dearly enough…Dustin May, Keibert Ruiz and a third piece from the very low minors…Lux is not going to be dealt….Ruiz is now surplus with the emergence of Smith and May is someone they’d rather not deal but will have to in order to get it done
abcrazy4dodgers
This.
Rich Hill’s Elbow
Please be the Twins… I’d even be ok with we gave up both Larnach and Duran with Jeffers as a side piece.
monymgr
Very possible that could happen today for Vazquez or Diaz ?? But they might have to include another piece to get it done !!
Rich Hill’s Elbow
Heck I’d even switch Duran with Balazovic if it meant landing Vazquez, because honestly I think it’s more likely that he ends as another Joe Musgrove rather than a Verlander.
Whodoirootfor
And be a first round exit of playoffs
dmere66
Like you have a clue!
ebenezer nutting
That would not be enough. I’m not sure that there is a good prospect fit here. Twins top prospect is a SS and the Pirates have a bunch of young SS either in the majors or knocking on the door. Graterol would be a good one but there would need to be another top prospect and a third in the top ten and I’m not sure the Twins have that. Kiriloff is struggling at AA. Balazovic seems redundant if Greatrol is in the deal.. Jeffers is kind of meh.
Rich Hill’s Elbow
How is Jeffers “meh” when he’d easily be the top catcher in the Pirates system…
ebenezer nutting
He is “meh” because he struggled at AA as a 23 year old. He’s not bad. You’re right he would be the Pirates top catching prospect. But that’s also a very low bar to clear. Not sure he would be in the top 15 Pirates prospects overall. As a fourth player in the deal definitely. As a third player if the first two may not be in the Pirates top 5 prospects, I’d pass.
Rich Hill’s Elbow
Last time I checked MLB.com he was ranked 10th in the Twins system, and they have a way better system than the Pirates…
I get that he hasn’t set the world on fire in Pensacola yet (.333 avg), but it’s kinda hard to do that when you only have had 12 at-bats. Plus, take a look at Garver’s minor league career, he didn’t even reach AA until he was 25; so I’d say Jeffers isn’t just “meh” prospect, I’d say he’s a quality 22yo prospect (not 23yo yet) who’s one hot streak away from entering top 10 catching prospect territory, which is much more possible now since he’s done playing home games in Fort Myers (a pitcher’s ballpark).
However, by no means am I trying to put him in the same territory as Smith and Ruiz of the Dodgers, those two are clearly superior catching prospects.
RiseAgainst3598
Blow it up. Trade Kela, Vazques and any impending free agent.
BigTicket
Look for the Twins to get Vazquez….
Col. Taylor
I hope so…Romo – Rogers – Vazquez shortens the game.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
The Pirates will take considerably less for the Big V. They have a track record of doing so.
Huntingtonsbrain
Pirates know they are out of it. They have an Offense good enough to contend next year. They get Kuhl, Santana, birdie, and just got kela back, for next year. Also have Keller for the rotation next year.
So to get Vazquez, May and smith are a must, and Peters for injury safeguard.
phillyphanatics
Smith is needed by LA now. Ruiz would be available.
Huntingtonsbrain
No thanks, as a pirate fan with tucker on the doorstep, and Hays there as well, we need a power catcher, and a SP.
Or may as well keep Vazquez. We have 2 catchers better than Ruiz
phillyphanatics
Understood, which is why a deal probably won’t happen. Dodgers have other places to turn, but the quality would be lower than Vazquez
Huntingtonsbrain
If Huntington makes a deal today, my guess is it is C Dickerson, or Cabrera
TBRaysBucsBolts
The Rays are burning out their bullpen like no team I’ve ever seen. They desperately need help. Tons of prospects and no reliable bullpen pieces for the stretch run. I guess we’ll see if they are serious about winning or if they are truly forever “building.” A few hours to find out…
TJECK109
Wonder if they’d deal meadows, Baz and Glasnow back to Pittsburgh and take Archer with Vazquez…. lol
Sunny 2
Wright, Contreras and Beck for Vazquez and Dickerson
Huntingtonsbrain
No
Sunny 2
haha
smrtbusnisman04a
At this point, I’d say Dodgers or bust. The ship has sunk and there’s a chance we could net a top 50 prospect for Vasquez if the Pirates play their cards right
Jaysthoughts
Should get much more than just a top 50. Dodgers need to part with Lux and May plus a cacther
joew
just a Note here since it warmed up outside, Felipe is regularly hitting 100mph on his fast ball and hit 101 a fair amount on the TV reporting.. probably trackman or something similar.
not only is the price high for Felipe, its crazy high. there is zero reason to trade him UNLESS someone comes in with a really really really good offer. There are no reasonable recent comps. Closest there is really is Chapman and he got two top 100 prospects, a lower end depth minor league player and what turned out to be a good pen arm. (McKinny, Torres, Crawford and Warren) and that was for a rental.
Asking anything less than pretty much the whole farm is crazy… regardless if it is lux or not.
If the pirates don’t get at least 3 top 100 types and /or some controllable MLB talent and some change.. then there is NO reason to even think about it.
if its the Dodgers: Lux, May, Ruiz/Smith, Ortiz, Strippling/Urias, and a couple lower end prospects. you can swap out some names.. but same idea.
if its the braves it would have to be Wright, Anderson, Langeliers, Wents/Muller.. + some others, but i’ve already stretched my knowledge of the braves system lol… Panche would be nice but with Reynolds Polanco and Marte under control the next couple years and some decent OF options in Cruz, Swaggerty, Mitchell and such.. OF is less of a need unless there are other upcoming moves don’t make a lot of sense.
Thats the type of deal that it has to be. I wouldn’t even consider that an over pay given his 4 years of CHEAP control BEYOND this season.
Sunny 2
You really think Pittsburgh can get 3 top 70 prospects, and one of two guys who will enter the top 100 at seasons end, for a reliever? Did I read that right?
Huntingtonsbrain
Or you can lose the WS again. In the 9th. Again
Sunny 2
Get to the WS, then talk?
Huntingtonsbrain
I’m not trying to take the best reliever in the NL from your team.
Make a legit argument.
Why should the pirates trade him if they don’t get what they want? To make you happy?
joew
Think they can, no probably not.. no one will give up the farm for him.. which is why he’ll stay in pittsburgh.
But if someone actually wants him.. that is the minimum it should take for one of the TOP/Elite closers in the game with four and a half years of cheap control… if people are not coming in with crazy offers then there is no reason to talk about felipe.
Robertowannabe
Yeah, all those complaining about the ask would be demanding the same ask from other teams. You Dodger Fans, If teams would have been asking for Jansen in February of 2017, after he signed his FA deal and was under contract for then next 5 years, what do you think the Dodgers would have demanded in return just to even think about it?? That is what we are talking about in comparison of players right now. Remember, Vasquez comes much cheaper in payroll cost.
Sunny 2
Brad Hand, with 3 years left of control went for Mejia, the 26th ranked prospect, and that’s it.
Andrew Miller went for Frazier, the 35th ranked prospect, and Sheffield, whoentered the top 100 the following year
Again, Pirates fans are on crack
joew
given hands track record before, not surprising.
given millers track record before.. again.. not surprising
they (at the time of trade) are not fair comps.
Robertowannabe
Miller was older at the time and neither of these two can bring what Jansen could and Vasquez can.
rondon
If you think for one second, that getting the top reliever available, a LHP with that contract, is not going to require a healthy overpay, you must be their crack supplier. The same way Chapman was for the Cubs, this would be a win now move for the Dodgers.
ebenezer nutting
Your point is well taken, but Vazquez has an extra year of control (4+ versus Hand which was 3+) and who is a far more imposing presence with his 100+ MPH heat (although the results are pretty similar). Also Hand was really struggling just before being traded with 3 blown saves in 10 days before the trade. Plus Hand wasn’t looked at to be the closer until Cody Allen predictably crapped the proverbial bed.
Vazquez has more value than Hand.
Miller? Please. He was 31 and had 1+ year of control left. Not comparable at all.
Sunny 2
Brad Hands track record:since becoming a reliever in 2016
2016: ERA 2.92, FIP 3.07, 11.2 k/9
2017: ERA 2.16, FIP 3.02, 11.8 k/9
2018 ERA 2.75, FIP, 3.20 13.3 k/9
Big time chopped liver there
Andrew Miller since becoming a reliever
2012: 3.35 ERA, FIP 3.17, 11..4 k/9
2013 2.64 ERA, FIP 3.05, 14.1 k/9
2014 2.02 ERA, FIP 1..51, 14.9 k/9
2015 2.04 ERA, FIP 2.16, 14.6 k/9
2016 1.45 ERA, FIP 1.68, 14.9 k/9
All in the AL East for Miller
ebenezer nutting
Hand is an ok comp but had one year less of controllability on his contract and was godawful just before he was traded.
Miller was 31 when traded and had 3 fewer seasons of control on his contract.
Aside from that good point.
joew
Brad Hand, and the previous 90 games was pretty horrific.
andrew miller had one and a half seasons of not being bad before being traded for that while having less control and a higher contract/year for that time.
like i said.. not fair comps
Huntingtonsbrain
Bingo
smrtbusnisman04a
Honestly I think Vasquez might be a little overrated. I’ve seen him nearly blow several leads over the past year or so
joew
letting someone get on base once in a while isn’t giving up a lead.. it happens.
I’m assuming you’d use something like blown saves as a measurement for that right?
felipe has 8 the past three years.. continuing with the comp of chapman (who i’d still consider and elite type) who has 11 blown saves in 33 fewer games than felipe.
If it was just a year, or half a year of being elite type.. i would agree with you. but its been damn good since he took over as closer full time.
Pacman
I’ve seen the Braves blow 17 games this year………I can live with a couple…….
meatloaf213
I don’t believe Landeliers can be traded yet, and don’t think Anderson is available. But Wentz and Mueller both probably are. I think it would take Vazquez and Marte to get both of them in the same deal along with a couple of other minor league players from the Braves
ebenezer nutting
It would take Vazquez and Marte to get Wentz and Muller plus a few lesser pieces from the Barves? No it wouldn’t. If it did then good luck this fall. Wentz has an ERA of almost 5.00 this year and has given up 13 homers. His prospect status falling fast.
joew
if you want marte AND Vazquez say good by to your top 10 org prospects.
Sunny 2
Pirates fans are on crack
Huntingtonsbrain
We want to keep Vazquez. You want him. You overpay, or try to dig up cy young.
ebenezer nutting
Gotta do something to relieve the pain.
Robertowannabe
No, Pirate fans are being realistic. If a team wants the only available elite closer in the game right now, they will have to pay a kings ransom for him. Huntington is correct to demand it. Like I said above, If teams asked about Jansen in February of 2017, what do you think that Dodgers would have asked for to even think about trading him? Same age, comparable length of contract and half the cost. Of course the Dodgers would have wanted what Huntington is asking and probably more. Deservedly so. Pittsburgh gets the world, the moon, the sun and the stars or Vasquez stays put. I for one would be ok with either of those 2 options but nothing in between.
Huntingtonsbrain
Gotta believe Huntington screws this up somehow. We say what we say, but his last good trade was cutch for Reynolds and crick. Archer has just been terrible and the reason the season tanked. That and Tallion going down. He may make a panic move.
Robertowannabe
He will not make a panic move. Now if Vasquez was making double what he is, maybe. No pressure to move him. Yes back in April and May. even when Archer was looking decent, the deal looked bad. Since, Glasnow looks like he is done for at least this season, Meadows is back to where he was when he was with the Pirates and all through the minors. He is hitting .233 since June 1 and only 3 home runs. Both put up career numbers in 2 months and never did it before either. Like I have been saying. too soon to proclaim a winner or loser in that deal yet. You could be right and it is a clear win for the Rays or could be a push in the end. and neither team really doing well.
Jaysthoughts
No reason to panic. Vazquez is healthy, young, drama-free, happy in Pittsburgh, on a great deal, friendly, fan favorite, fun to watch, ATTRACTS fans and wins, as clutch as it gets and on an enormously team friendly contract. If Huntington doesn’t get exactly what he wants, there is no reason to trade him. He has 2 or 3 years to do so for a haul. Heck, in 4 years he should get the chapman haul.
Pacman
New trade deadline rules are complicating things. Not enough teams are out of the picture. If you get a decent player, chances are you will have to overpay. I wonder if Wade Davis of the Rockies would interest Atlanta. HIs home road splits out of Colorado is interesting. Plus, he had good numbers prior to signing with Colorado. Colorado would want out the contract through next year at 18 million. Just saying……I really don’t see AA rolling the dice giving up top 100 prospects for Vasquez. The quality of the prospect would determine how much money Colorado eats…….
However, on a side note……….Atlanta has NO ONE in the prospect line capable of closing. If Atlanta is in the window of competing for the next 6-7 years, I do think it is worth moving one of our TOP 4 and some mid level prospects to get Vasquez given team control. If not now, then when? If ever!!!!
dodgerfan83
Come on Dodgers. You know you need him. Make the deal.
Black_Pearl
I was big on getting Lux in a Dodger deal, but now I think it has to be Smith. I get Ruiz is younger but Smith is the overall better catcher and Bucs need the power production. May is also a must and then 2 more prospects in the 10-16 range of organizational ranking.
phillyphanatics
That’s nice, but the Dodgers need Smith for right now, so that ask is a non-starter. And no, I don’t think his callup was a “showcase”
Huntingtonsbrain
Really? A couple days before the deadline? It was more obvious than Bonds on roids.
quxdraw
Smith was up in late May, played about 10 games.
Proved he was ready. Dodgers gave Barnes another chance, then made the switch. This is not a showcase of Smith, he is the primary catcher now. And by the way he is in the starting lineup for this afternoons game, Roberts talked about Smith catching Ryu for the first time.
Black_Pearl
They seemed to have done just fine without Smith all year.
phillyphanatics
Barnes has been brutal. Maybe they wanted to see if smith can handle it or if they needed to consider dealing for a short term veteran catcher. Plus smith already had one turn earlier this year and looked good. To play the game of “showcase,” there’s a downside risk.
Hey…I could be wrong but I see Smith staying put even more than I see Lux staying put when it comes to a Vazquez offer
Huntingtonsbrain
Or just Smith, May, and Peters.
If they sub Ruiz for Smith, walk away.
Jaysthoughts
Lux smith may urias +
joew
i can deal with either ruiz or smith. ruiz has more potential defensivly is a switch hitter and doesn’t strike out… but he doesn’t get many extra bases.
Smith on the other hand is more than fine behind the plate has more natural power and better obp (which leads to higher OPS)
either way, agreed May has to be there too.
Shrutefarm
This deal is not getting done with May or Lux. Vazquez would be nice, but he is not worth that. Dodgers will take their chances without him then. If they lose in the playoffs, they lose and will try again next year. Playoffs are a crapshoot anyway. Hopefully for the Pirates sake, Vazquez doesn’t fall off his pace or get injured and they don’t get stuck with him for nothing or little return in the future.
Buccrazy
Thanks, Bruin. Someone finally makes sense. Dodgers will be back no matter what. They held all the power. Pirates have a decent pitching staff wrought with injuries so nothing you can bank on, and they have an overrated offense with lots of singles hitters. It was time to retool and this team could be good in 3 years. I expect Marte to be dealt in the off-season when no ones paying attention.
Huntingtonsbrain
dodger fans do you take this deal.
Smith May Peters
For
Vazquez, Liriano, Diaz?
joew
if thats what was offered the dogers they’d have to jump on it… but its not even close to what the pirates should take.
Huntingtonsbrain
That puts Marte Peters and Reynolds in OF,
Hays Newman Frazier bell Smith in the IF.
If healthy,
May tallion musgrove Williams, archer/ Simone else as top 5:
Not a bad start. Kela closes
Santana back
Birdie
Crick
Rodriguez
Now next year is already set
joew
Kela probably won’t be on the pirates at the end of the day. Hes got talent but the team and him have uh.. some disagreements.
Black_Pearl
I would take that all day. Liriano is a FA and Diaz has been outplayed by Stallings all year.
norcalblue
Vazquez for
Smith, Peters, Gonsolin (he was excellent last night closing out in Colorado) or Santana
Cave
How’s about Ruiz, Gonsolin, and Cartaya?
norcalblue
I would not do that deal from either Friedman or Huntington ‘s perspective. Too much risk.
aberdeen101
No one should have any faith in NH doing this deal.
LA needs to start with Smith and May.
Atlanta needs to start with Anderson and Langliers and add Newcomb probably.
ebenezer nutting
If it’s Anderson, Langeliers and Muller from the Braves I do that deal.
Pacman
I disagree, the only Braves Prospects that I have as untouchable are Anderson and Pache. I would want to keep Langeliers due scarcity at the positon. However, I would have no regret in moving Wright or Waters. Waters is overrated and by that I mean the industry likes him better than he really is. He may be a sell high candidate…….As for Wright, you have to give up good prospects to get needed areas. 5 hours and 30 more minutes to deadline…..
Robertowannabe
So you would be willing to part with an overrated player for an elite one.. Wouldn’t we all want our teams to do that……
ebenezer nutting
I don’t think the Pirates would prioritize an outfielder coming back so Pache shouldn’t be a concern. Anderson, however, would have to be the centerpiece of a deal. Him with langeliers and Muller would be the kind of overpay I would want to see.
Tommyhawk
As a Braves fan I have always liked Dickerson (good add in)…and it’s likely that Vazquez would be a huge piece for several years…
But, I would agree if Pittsburgh were to require more than one of your top 3 you have to pass…really no choice…
One of your top 3 (not Anderson) plus possibly a player in the mix today (Camargo?), and a few highly touted (1 top 20, 1 top 30) players would be fair…consider a Braves top 20 is potential equivalent of a Top 5 or 10 on another team…
Then that would seem fair.
ebenezer nutting
The Braves NEED Vazquez. Badly. The Pirates don’t NEED what you want to offer. Therein lies the rub.
joew
Something i just thought about…
Tomorrow, Dodgers and Braves fans will laugh at the Pirates when Felipe is still in the black and gold and say something like, “HA HA You got nothing for him”
Most of pirates fans, will say… uh.. Yay?
Huntingtonsbrain
We get to keep him 4 more years. Pay attention or don’t talk
ebenezer nutting
I think that was his point
Jaysthoughts
Joe w. I must say i agree with your posts here! Dodgers are in a unique position to trade the farm and almost surely win the world series at least 2 times in the next 4 years if they make this trade. It has to be everything you asked for though, or no Vazquez! It’s a win win
Jdice150
Vazquez is a big deal, could be this years Aroldis Chapman but with control and cheap! I think a team might offer a haul in the last hour and he gets moved. Exciting times!
Huntingtonsbrain
Trade Dickerson and Cabrera for some minor league upgrades, and call it a day.
Robertowannabe
Would not mind that at all and maybe sign Cabrera back again in the off season if possible.
whitered
i dont see atlanta doing more than wilson, wentz, & some lower level players
ebenezer nutting
If the Braves are only willing to trade their underperforming prospects that are moving down their ranks, then it will be up to the Dodgers. If they don’t step up, Vazquez stays. Pirates won’t mind that at all.
army123456
Pirates will trade (give away) Vazquez today like they did Cole. They will get a teams 150 156 best product. Face it, nutting does not want to pay Vazquez salary.
Robertowannabe
A) Cole was traded because he made it known to all that he was going to head to free agency. No way would he sign an extension with anyone. If he would have been willing to, Houston would have done so already. Huntington did not do badly on a deal that was made out of necessity. Got a 2-3 SP, a good hitting 3B, a flame throwing RP that at times has control. issues and at others pitches very well. and an OF prospect. Not bad for a pitcher that was coming off a career high HR given up career high walks and career high ERA.
As to the what Vasquez is making, Nutting would have no problem paying him. Gawd awful cheap in today’s market. Now if he were making double, you would have a point….. smh always crying about Nutting cheap….There is no crying in Baseball!!!
FakeExpert
Pirates trade,
P Felipe Vasquez
P Francisco Liriano
Braves trade,
P Ian Anderson
P Kyle Wright
C William Contreras
OF Trey Harris/OF Justin Dean
or Twins trade,
P Brusdar Graterol
OF Brent Rooker
C Ryan Jeffers
P Stephen Gonsalves
P Fernando Romero
ebenezer nutting
If the Dodgers offer May, Ruiz and Peters I think the Pirates would need to do that deal.
JoeBrady
If you get that, you run all the way to the bank.
FanLAD
I think relief pitchers today have a very short shelf life. Vasquez may have 4 years of control. However, we’ve have seen time and time again that the older these pitchers get, the less effective they are. The likelyhood that he’s going to be on the IL with a major arm problem within the 2 years is very high. The dodgers should not give up more than 2 prospects for him. I would give up any 2 prospects with the exception of Lux and Smith because the dodgers would need them.
JoeBrady
FWIW, I think the Pirate fans need to drop the rationale of ‘You cannot win the WS without Vazquez’. LAD lost last year because Kershaw and Ryu stunk up the joint. Jansen blew an 8th inning lead, but I’m not sure Vazquez would addressed that.
And they didn’t lose in 2017 because of Jansen, I think Darvish took them down.
And, no matter what the need, teams virtually never blow up their minor league system in a one-person trade. And never blow up their minor league system for a closer.
The biggest close deal I’ve ever seen was for Kimbrel, and that was Margot (top-50), Allen (unrated 8th rounder with some promise), Guerra (an almost top-100), and Asuaje (no rating).
If that’s all the Kimbrel fetched, what makes you think Vazquez will get you multiple top prospects (aside from ‘because the LAD are desperate’?
ebenezer nutting
FWIW the whole “the Dodgers are desperate” thing is kind of a big deal. Unless they want to be the Buffalo Bills of this century.
And you think an ability to shorten games in those playoff series wouldn’t have been huge for the Dodgers? Especially from the left side? Please.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Younger, better, cheaper and signed for longer.
Mostly.
phillyphanatics
Totally different question – does it ever really work to take an elite closer and make him your 8th inning guy or take your current very good and formerly elite closer making 20 million next 2 years and make him an 8th inning guy?
Vazquez (née Rivero) truly flourished as a closer (ask the Nationals lol). He has the closer mentality. Will it fully translate to the 8th inning in LA? Will it be worth the steep trade price when there may be other bullpen depth options to acquire much more cheaply?
I feel at the end of the day (or more accurately at 4pm), Vazquez stays put and the Dodgers land someone else who’s more of a depth guy, or maybe get a starter like Wheeler or Minor and bump Maeda – and/or Stripling when off the DL – to the pen
79PitatesFan
I agree!
Robertowannabe
Yes, especially if the Dodgers believe Jansen is on the verge of a decline. Co closers and co 8th inning guys depending on who is coming to the plate in each. Neither is playing for a contract right now. Both will get saves and both will get holds.
JoeBrady
It’s an excellent question given the irony of the fact that Vazquez is only in play because he was traded for Melancon. And Melancon was used to push Papelbon to the 8th inning, when he disappeared.
And Papelbon was only there because he was acquired from Philly to, once again, push Storen to the 8th inning.
With the final irony being that the Nats have the worst BP in baseball, while they traded away both Vazquez & Treinen.
No better sport than BB to get my irony quotient for the day.
phillyphanatics
Love it!
So true…and I’m crying crocodile tears for the Nats…but not too many tears…I don’t want to short circuit my iPhone
Socrates Curveball
Who Says No?
LAD Receive:
– RP Felipe Vazquez (27)- $4.0M Salary 2019. Guaranteed $13.5M through 2022 Option Buyout w/ 2023 Club Option.
– RP Keone Kela (26)- $3.17M Salary 2019. Arbitration Eligible 2020.
PITT Receive:
– C Keibert Ruiz (20)- Prospect.
– SS Jeter Downs (20)- Prospect.
– LHP Caleb Ferguson (22)- Minimum Salary 2019. Club Control through 2024.
– LHP John Rooney (22)- Prospect.
– RP J.T. Chargois (28)- Minimum Salary 2019. Club Control through 2023.
ebenezer nutting
Pirates. Very quickly.
joew
yeah big no on the pirates side, but we’ll send you kela for not an outrageous amount though. like a 10-20 Org prospect and a 20-30 prospect one of which is a catcher and one of which is a pitcher. (like Ortiz)
FanLAD
I think the Pirates will have to include Cash because that trade still look one sided.
joew
yeah… no.. the only on his list that is a fit for the pirates is Ruiz, pirates don’t need more middle infielders (unless its someone like lux where its hard to say no) especially ones who are not cracking their positions top 10 lists… (on pipeline anywho)
Fergusons stock has dropped hard with his 6.3 Fip and 1.8 whip.
rooney is 22 been in the system for four years and is still doing poorly in A ball and
JT: could be a fair sweetener to another pieces of a deal isn’t as horrible. as this proposal.
JoeBrady
Frazier is only there 3 more years. Which is a lot, but Downs could be step-in ready at that point. If JD progresses, that also makes Frazier a trade chip in a couple of years, as he gets more expensive. If I were PT, I’d be more about accumulating the best chips, than obtaining the best fits.
Cargo & Caleb aren’t much, but they can both strike out a lot of guys, which could develop as they get older.
joew
They also have their own prospects that are not far off from downs. Not worth the trade.
May and Ruiz/Smith are the best fits for the pirates. Yeah lux too but that because he would be a trade chip (either him or whom ever he is replaceing would be)
Make no mistake it will take at least two of Lux, Ruiz/Smith and May to even start a real conversation and then there would have to be more moving parts from the dodgers. Other wise there is no reason for the pirates to make a trade.
JoeBrady
If you had Trout, maybe. But no RP in history has ever come close to that package.
79PitatesFan
Only a Californian could post something this absurd!!!
phillyphanatics
Look…I appreciate what you’re trying to do – but do you even understand the concept of the “replacement player” and WAR? There is really only one special player in that laundry list and that’s Ruiz. And it’s debatable how special Ruiz is, which is why there needs to be one more special piece and a third piece (which could be Downs, a late first round pick in 2017) which could be special but still far away to project.
If Chargois and Ferguson (and guys like Dylan Floro, et al) were any better than replacement, the Dodgers wouldn’t be after Vazquez
JoeBrady
I’d take that if I were the Pirates. I wouldn’t be crazy about it if I were the LAD, but I’d close my eyes an accept.
phillyphanatics
Are your glasses tinted Dodger Blue, Joe?!?
JoeBrady
RS and BB fan. I think the key is our valuation of Ruiz, and maybe an idea of the trade values for RPs.
I know he hasn’t blown up AA, but he is also substantially young for that level. And FG has him listed as a 60 prospect.
And I don’t think RPs fetch that much in return. The package mentioned above looks similar, and possibly a bit better than the Kimbrel package. I’m not sure we are going to break new records here.
ebenezer nutting
That is absolutely a possibility. In which case good luck to the Dodgers this fall.
ebenezer nutting
Downs would be a redundancy for the Pirates. Rooney is nothing special. Chargois why? Ruiz yes. Ferguson maybe as a third or fourth player.
Maybe May Ruiz Ferguson and a #15-20 low level prospect.
jbigz12
May and Ruiz in the same package isn’t happening. Gray and Ruiz would be a solid haul for Pittsburgh though.. Gray is a fast rising prospect. Throw in some other lesser pieces from there and call it a day.
jtkuch
That wouldn’t be enough for just Vazquez
66TheNumberOfTheBest
The deal starts with Ruiz AND May.
Rezonator
Looks like a Twins kinda guy.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Twins pieces don’t fit. LA with a slight chance ATL or HOU could pull it off.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
This is not an auction. Set a very high price or else keep him.
If they get an absurd return, I’ll be happy.
If they keep him, I’ll be just as happy.
Anything short of that…
ebenezer nutting
Preach
clemente3000
Agreed well put!
joew
this is exactly it. in order to get Felipe it would be either farm depleting and/or some excess MLB talent (like stripling or Urias maybe?)
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Rosenthal says the Dodgers won’t include Lux (no big deal) or May (NO DEAL).
Vazquez should get some new flooring for his house here.
ebenezer nutting
Agreed
Robertowannabe
Which possibly means going through with one of those guys included as Rosenthal is known to miss on what he says. 🙂
Shrutefarm
The Dodgers aren’t trading May AND lux for a reliever no matter how special. Indians traded for Hand last year and he was irrelevant in the playoffs. Red Sox won the whole thing last year in spite of Kimbrel. The Astros won it all in spite of their closer. Vazquez would be nice, but doesn’t guarantee anything. So many different intangibles need to be met in order to win. Remember in 2017 the Dodgers had a historically good bullpen all year and it meant nothing in the WS.
No, Vazquez will be staying put unless the Pirates are reasonable. Agree that they don’t have to trade him, but also run the risk of Vazquez doing what a lot of relievers do which is lose effectivenes (see Diaz and iglesias). Then, the value of Vazquez would fall and Pirates would lose out at a chance to sell high.
joew
I agree with most of what you say. But also important to remember no matter how promising a prospect looks… they’re still just prospects. Thats why teams trade for many when sending quality players away.. even more so when its not a rental.
Shrutefarm
Joe W. – For sure, absolutely agree. If Vazquez was anything other than a RP, this conversation would be much different.
Robertowannabe
Vasquez would give the Dodgers a chance to use either him or Jansen earlier than the 8th if need be and still have the other to close the game so they would be relevant. 2 closers to finish each game and can use the normal set up guys earlier than normal. May keep the rotation fresher during the run as well.
joew
it isn’t totally abnormal felipe has 4/5 out saves… setup men are for wussies 😉
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Vazquez is a horse.
MadBum without the ATV.
Not worried.
Shrutefarm
“Madbum without the ATV”. Love it, that’s funny.
shafe4141
The Pirates could be offered 4 of the Dodgers Top 12-15 prospects and not take the deal. They’d rather have 8-9 prospects from the bottom of the pile. Nutting loves quantity over quality.
Robertowannabe
yeah, right…….smh……No truth to it just an opportunity to bash the Pirates……You must be one of the Pittsburgh talk show hosts. This is the kind of BS that most of them spew.