7:35pm: The Orioles are picking up exactly $1.78MM, per Rosenthal. They’ll also cover “most” of the performance bonuses Cashner could earn, according to Sean McAdam of BostonSportsJournal.com.
5:30pm: Baltimore will pay approximately half of the ~$3.36MM in guarantees left on Cashner’s deal, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic tweets. The Orioles also owe Cashner $1.5MM in signing bonus money in both 2020 and ’21.
4:32pm: The Red Sox have acquired righty Andrew Cashner and cash considerations for prospects Elio Prado and Noelberth Romero, the Orioles have reported.
Cashner, 32, was famously swapped straight-up for Anthony Rizzo in a 2011 trade between the Cubs and Padres. After a breakout 2013 campaign, in which the hard-throwing righty posted a 3.09 ERA/3.35 FIP (2.6 fWAR) in 26 starts, it’s been mostly unfulfilled promise for the former first-rounder. The TCU product was smashed in the first season of a two-year, $16MM deal he signed with Baltimore prior to the 2018 campaign, with a near-league-low 5.82 K/9 against 3.82 BB/9 en route to a 0.6 fWAR season in 28 starts.
He’s been better this year, though his K rate remains among the league’s lowest and peripheral markers (4.25 FIP, 4.88 xFIP) are non-believers in the sustainability of his 3.83 ERA. Cashner’s average fastball velocity, once an eye-popping 98.8 MPH in predominant relief for the 2012 Padres, now sits at a barely-above-league average 94.0. He’s mostly scrapped the bread-and-butter sinker he featured so prominently from 2013-18, overhauling his repertoire back to the four-seam/changeup/slider mix with which he began his career. Returns have been positive: his 8.7% swinging-strike rate is his highest since transitioning full-time to a big-league rotation, and his chase rate’s bettered the standard he established from 2016-18. Cashner’s grounder-heavy repertoire should play well in Fenway Park, with any opposite-side power somewhat neutralized by the ballpark’s spacious right-field dimensions.
Our own Steve Adams offered ample justification for transitioning the righty back to a late-inning role, but it appears such a move won’t be in the short-term cards for the Bo Sox. Cashner will apparently start Tuesday’s game for Boston, with GM Dave Dombrowski noting that the move eases the undue stress the club’s bullpen has endured thus far. Cashner’s two-year deal includes a $10MM vesting option for 2020 should the righty eclipse the 187 inning mark this year, a fact of which his acquiring club is surely aware.
Boston’s rotation has been solid this season, though it’s true that the fifth spot has been a sore one. Hector Velazquez, Brian Johnson, Ryan Weber, Josh A. Smith and Darwinzon Hernandez have each tried their hands, to less-than-stellar results, and the club had no clear fill-in at the minors’ upper levels. Nathan Eovaldi is set to return soon, but the team expects to plug him straight in to its beleaguered closer’s role.
Both Prado and Romero, 17, will transition from the Red Sox Dominican Summer League affiliate to that of the Orioles. Neither are big-time bonus babies, and reports are scarce, but Orioles GM Mike Elias does have ample experience scouting in Latin America from his time with the Cardinals and Astros organizations.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Here we goooooo. Lol
WS favorites
Cashner is having a better year than Sale!
Sale goods on IL after trading deadline.
Not true. Sale is still better by FIP standards, Just hasn’t had the same luck and success that he did the past two seasons.
Let the flood gates open!!!
Yes it does.
Rizzo was not traded straight up for Cashner!!! The trade also included Casey Weathers and the famous Kwin-Namm Kwong
That was a horrible deal for the Padres.
Being a little jerk about it aren’t you? The fact is, the only important two were mentioned, but what makes it worse is that you got the player Casey Weathers wrong. It wouldnt be a big deal if you werent being such a tool about it but you are.
Weathers was part of the Rockies organization. Zach Cates was the other player in question.
So maybe you could afford to have a little grace the next time someone is wrong on a minor issue.
Love it Salary. Too many on here probably researching every “fact” in every article just itching to find any mistake, omission, etc. Love when they are petty and wrong at the same time
Boom! Let the frenzy begin
Idk how this is gonna make the bosox better but ok
Are you serious? Their fifth spot in the rotation has been abysmal.
So has Cashner
Not this year bud
Cash has been one of th he best pitchers thus far
Watch baseball. Then speak.
Not this year look up stats please
Awful strikeout rate and a 4.25 FIP. He’s not as bad as last year but still no better than a 5th starter
You obviously haven’t been watching this year lol
He was never a high strikeout pitcher and he has been pitching in Camden Yards on the worst team in baseball. His numbers are solid and far better then what they should be. Put him on a winning team and he will be better.
I’ve seen him several times this year and he looks like the same mediocre pitcher he’s been his whole career. A 4.25 FIP and 6.2 K/9 is not good. Also ask yourself why a “good” SP would get moved for 2 no name 17 year old prospects
You might want to check again. His past 5 or so starts have been really impressive. This is a smart, low-risk move for the Red Sox.
Really anything to get a decent 5th starter. They need all the help they can get right now.
What they’ve used on the fifth spot has been awful. The hope is he’ll be better. Eovaldi hopefully works out as the closer. The trade for him last year was under the radar like this one. Good move. I’ve never been a Cashner fan … until now…
He is 9-3 with 3.83era and a 2.7WAR…
And that is with BALTIMORE..
If he had those numbers in New York with the Yankees.. which would be easy.. people would be talking about him as a Cy Young Award contender
If he was playing for a winner people still wouldn’t care about wins and losses…
Cashner is an AL average pitcher this year. That will help the Red Sox.
How often has he been on a winner? Hoping I’m wrong but some pitch better when there is no added pressure like a pennant race.
I don’t think anybody claimed he was “good” nor do they expect him to be. The Sox are looking for him to stabilize the 5th starter spot and nothing more. It’s a spot that has been filled by guys who have a combined ERA well over 5.00. If he can give them consistent starts and have an ERA somewhere in the vicinity of 4.00 (even 4.50) that’s a win for them.
Which is exactly what the six want him to be, so…
*sox
Some of you guys are something else. I’m sure the Red Sox have as good of an idea as one can in what they are getting in Cashner. They acquired a guy who is either better or is a better fit on their current roster. They are better with him than without him. They gave up two prospects considered long shots to be polite and salary is reasonable after Baltimore kicks in their end. For Baltimore why not? Are they better with him? Sure but they are still god awful with him. Prospects while long shots are two you didn’t have before and dumping any salary now is building up that savings bank to be used when rebuild is over and contention begins. This is no blockbuster and peripherals tell us there isn’t a Jake Arietta II in the making but they can’t all be grand slams you’re going to mix in some singles and extra base hits to win. Stop with the Cashner isn’t great narrative I think most are aware of that. Don’t overvalue him either. Some of you mentioning last five starts like he’s “back”. His return in trade tells me baseball gms would agree his last five starts don’t change him from a back end starter/bullpen guy to the top of the rotation
Because its the Orioles and they have no clue how to run a team. Ive been an Os fan my whole life so i know how stupid this team is. They literally traded him for nothing just like they did Machado. Machado is an elite player and look what they got for him, not a damn thing.
I don’t think cy young award contender , the era is a bit high
A 3.83 FIP isn’t bad but it’s nowhere near the best. The #5 spot iis more than adequate for Cashner. problem is, this team isn’t motivated to win this year. Adding a piece to an unmotivated team doesn’t help the team to win.
Just a bunch of trash Red Sox fans that think cashner is good but really he should not ever pitch in a playoff game, at least with the bombs he gives up
Nobody ever said he was great. He’s just not bad. 3.83 ERA, 1.194 WHIP is a solid backend kind of starter.
If he can continue at those rates (very doubtful given recent history) that would be ok… for a team with a strong bullpen. Don’t see it flying for the Red Sox.
Usually the #5 starter doesn’t pitch in the playoffs, so he should be fine
Unless some starter is injured, I think most #5 Starters are in the bullpen in the playoffs..
And that someone is Sale. It just hasn’t been announced yet.
All spots have been pretty inconsistent, but especially 5. They are killing the pen. This will alleviate that, hopefully.
Its not. Pitching for Boston is not like pitching for Baltimore.
It’s better than Rick Porcello and Hector Velazquez right now.
Hey! You leave Rick Poorfellow alone. You cad! Hector’s fair game though.
Still pitching in the AL east, but now he gets to face Baltimore’s line up a couple times. So should be better, not to mention better run support, not the top guy in the rotation and a better defense with guys that aren’t cast offs from other teams. Your right, his season will go down hill for sure.
Our problems are bigger than adding anyone.
This reminds of the Eovaldi trade from last year
Sort of but Eovaldi is a much different type of pitcher
that “type” is “good”
Wow. Better than Hector Vesesquez I guess much much worse than Wheeler
Cashner would easily slide into the 3 spot in the Yankees rotation. You should be wondering why Cashman didn’t do this deal.
The Yankees don’t need another 4-5 starter in their rotation which is where Cashner would basically slot in.
He wouldn’t slide into the 3rd spot in the Yankees’ rotation though. He’s not stepping into a rotation in front of Tanaka, German or Paxton… so that would leave him to replace CC or Happ… mehhhhhhhhh
If they can get those players off the mash unit..
If the playoffs started tomorrow Cashner wouldn’t even be on the postseason roster for the Yankees. He’s not the difference-maker the Yankees want and not a sure-bet upgrade over anyone they already have.
And you won your last World Series…..when?
Explain why you think he is much much worse than Wheeler. I’d have preferred Wheeler on his upside, but Cashner has a much much better ERA and a much much better record.
Presto we now have a fifth starter. Good job DD. Now a closer would be nice.
Eovaldi will be the closer
Givens to in deal?
Ok let’s get this started. AA come home from that west coast swing with Greinke or MadBum and Colome or Shane Greene !!!!!
Why do people insist on posting about other teams on these articles?
He is 9-3 with like a 3.78 era or something . Isn’t a big name for sure but can certainly be a quality 5th starter or fill in for injured starters and long relief .
Exactly. As long as the 5th starter can eat some innings and keep them in games I’ll take it. Not looking for an ace.
They have 3 aces that are under performing. I wouldn’t trade for anything significant. They should have the big pieces in place. They go nowhere if they aren’t more consistent in the second half.
I’d love to hear who you consider the third ace in the Red Sox rotation. Also Price is a 2 not an ace
Exactly Ronk. They have one ace, one veteran who’s pitching well (now,) and a couple of number three starters.
I don’t even think any of their starters can be considered a 3. ERod shows potential at times but is very inconsistent and Porcello has been a back of the rotation starter every year other than 2016
Eduardo has been pretty good !! You’re right about Porcello.
You’re wasting your time trying to explain the trades to trolls and a couple of NYY fans.
Thank you DD. Excellent job.
Uh, ….
Better then any fifth starter the Red Sox have now.
Warm bodies are good to have…..there are worse guys out there than Cashner.
BTW, and totally off topic, how about a word about the passing of Jim Bouton. There’s more truth in the pages of Ball Four than in most SCOTUS decisions…and Clarence Thomas couldn’t have written “Shi####ck, smoke ‘e inside, and we’ll get some cheeseburgers”…..
I’m sure “Jimsey-Boy” is standing at the Pearly Gates with St. Peter telling him, “I’m glad you didn’t take it personaly”…..
RIP, Bouton; you were somethin’……..
Who cares.
I do
Adc, about you. Guessing no one.
What is the matter with you? Did you even read Ball Four?
Hey adc72, can you even read? And Dr. Seuss doesn’t count.
this site is not required to post that sort of thing. the fact that you know this confirms that fact.
I read Ball Four at about 17 years old when it came out and laughed like heck.
Bouton was actually a fine pitcher for a few years with the Yankees.
How would you like your career to be in Joe Schultz’ hands?!
RIP Jim Bouton.
Thanks Mr Tillman.How did you do batting against Jim Bouton?
No idea on that one. But like me, the real Bob Tillman couldn’t abide “spin” , so I doubt he did well.
What is it with the Red Sox and pitchers with narly beards?
Rip Kimbrel
79% of mlb players have beards
And the other 11% (just kidding 21) can’t grow one.
A lot less than what the Mets are expecting for Wheeler who has not been as good
Yes !! and that’s the best part of this. We may have even received the better pitcher as well.
Not the pitcher with the best stuff. Wheelers performance is affected by poor coaching. And now Phil Regan is giving instructional/motivational information to the staff on 8-track tapes.
Cashner will be one of the best deadline deals if he’s used as a reliever. You heard it here first.
Yeah but he won’t be… not unless the Red Sox acquire another SP (which is unlikely) between now and July 31st — I agree that he could be a very effective reliever and the Red Sox could use one. But they also desperately need a 5th starter and unless something changes Cashner is it.
He should be the 5th starter. He has been pitching well in the AL east…he is the guy you should of been hoping for. Cheap in prospect, predictable results and they threw in cash. How can a red Sox fan not like this move?
I (as a Sox fan) do like the move… but I do also agree he had the potential to be a very good reliever (whereas his ceiling as a starter is a #4/5) so I was just agreeing with the comment but also stating that he most likely won’t get the chance to work from the pen as I see him as the 5th started for this Red Sox team.
Wheeler to the Dodgers now
And the O’s dumpster fire begins…
*continues
Thanks for correcting that
No doubt the two prospects were known to Ellias….not exactly an “immediate” return, but if his evaluation is right (no reason to think it isn’t) Orioles did OK.
What a horrible move lol . Cashner sucks and will eliminate the Red Sox from contention
How will he “eliminate” the Red Sox from contention? All he has to do to be a positive for the Sox is pitch better than Vasquez/Johnson/Smith have in the rotation (which isn’t hard to do). I’m not saying he’s going to be lights out… but it would also be very difficult for him to have a negative impact on the team’s play.
Traded nothing to get
Two extreme lottery tickets. Thats what happens when both guys are 17 years old.
2 unproven guys who may never make it 2 minors.
Those 2 17 year olds were scouted very well by the Orioles and maybe they ever tried to sign them before they signed with the RS….
Remember when SS Tatis Jr was a “throw in” in the James Shields deal to the White Sox?!
You never know who the next Tatis may be though. When you’re dealing Andrew Cashner, going for a home run on a lottery ticket is the way to go. If not, you’d be getting a 25 year old in AA who projects at best to be a fourth outfielder in the major.
Win for both sides. Cashner has had good stuff, I feel he could really step things up for a playoff run
Cashner doesn’t have good stuff, that’s what his problem is. He’s had lucky results, but this is probably a band aid until they get someone decent
Lucky is finding a 20 spot on the street. Going 9-3 is either pitching well, or getting great run support. It’s the Orioles, so he’s pitching well.
Win loss record is virtually worthless as a stat. His FIP is nearly half a point higher than his ERA. He’s been lucky. He’s also having a year that’s not reflective of his talent, which shows from past years stats.
He’s always pitched well south of his FIP and he has had several good years
4 ERA 4.19 FIP for his career. He hasn’t obliterated that mark by any stretch of the imagination. He’s a #4 or 5 starter. Unspectacular but serviceable. Certainly better than Belasquez or Johnson.
Sure. I’d take upside for my 5th SP instead but he’s fine. Just not worth anything on the trade market. And likely on the downside from here.
And Cashner pitches best in pressure packed games when the results matter.
Oh, he’s never done that??
Well there’s the answer
Yes, finally a Cashman for Cash deal
oops, it’s Cashman and cash, my bad.
O’s aren’t even a .300 team, yet are 11-6 in Cashner starts.
As if I had nothing to go see before this trade, Cashner accounted for 1/3 of their wins this year.
Cashner may be the new Walt Terrel for all we know..
Go to Pimlico and bet on those numbers.
Of course, DD kicks off trade parade.
Well I guess Cashner’s retirement starts now.
MadBum to Braves, Wheeler to Twins, Stroman to Yankees, and Boyd to the Astros.
Those 3 could go to any of the teams you named..
Since DD already mortgaged the upper levels of the farm, it’s time to take out a second mortgage with the lower levels. Sox may be worse off than the Tigers in a couple years. I’m sure Yankee fans are loving it
As a Yankee fan I will say yes I am! All we Ever heard from Red Sox fans was how superior their farm system was two hours and look at them now.
Can’t see them. They’ve got a WS trophy blocking our view.
It is superior. Benny, Betts (MVP), Devers, Bradley, Xavier. half their team is their farm system lol. Red Sox traded two 17 year olds that wont see the major for at least 7 years for a guy that can at least eat up innings efficiently. Gave up really nothing
Yanks have been guarding “prospects” like Ft. Knox…No titles in 10 years.
Sounds like a fan deeply resentful in our 10 game lead over the Red Sox with at least half the players spending much of the first half on the IL.
As a Yankees fan myself, DD did Do Damage to their farm system but the fact is they did win a championship by doing it. You make it sound like DD’s moves were terrible and he should’ve hung on to most of that young talent but if he did, maybe they never win that WS. Sometimes you have to go all in and potentially sacrifice the future a bit to go all the way now.
DD did what he had to do to win that WS, even if it’ll come with future consequences.
Detroit is saying Thank You to DD.
We have seen this before and witnessing it now in Detroit. Wonder where he will go next to pillage the farm. At least you folks in Boston got a Crown for it.
Well said Rocket.., it’s all about what Boston and New York do, which is go for it every year.
Losing Farm Talent makes it a challenge to get more so you can trade them as well. Puts the lower-level guys to work. Go find guys, go scouting, replenish the farm continually, get to work. We’re building Championship contenders at the big league level.
It does no good to have a lake stocked with trout if you’re not going in to fish. Yeah there’s a great lake down the street that’s full of trout. You ever go fishing? Na, but it’s a great lake full of trout.
And good for him that he got his ring because his last job he mortgaged everything and destroyed the franchise which has yet to recover because that farm was so depleted.
They. Won.
Some fans seem unaware of this, but the champions are the team that wins the World Series, not the team with the top ranked farm system.
Yea, but without a top ranked farm system you can’t make ridiculous trade proposals and comments about which prospects are off limits and why your team should get players for lower prospects. So I mean winning the World Series is fine and all, but this is not about winning and loosing, it’s about being able to say dumb things and sound stupid and walk away thinking you are smarter than everyone else.. seriously which would you rather do…win? SMDH
You guys always talk about mortgaging their future. What is the point of this game? To win championships or amass a good farm system. You gotta give to get.
Uh, … yeah.
Hold that comment for when he gives up something even on the prospect radar. Fact is they got a WS with a catcher, SS, 3B, LF, CF, RF that were the core of the team that they developed. Also had a few relievers and bench contributors that were homegrown. Gave up more top prospects to add Sale and Kimbrel and that equaled a duck parade built by their strong farm system. Just time to rebuild now.
Time for some google research. Those players that were the core were developed by Dave’s predecessor. His history is in emptying the farm
System and signing older players to ridiculous contracts, like Miggy and Price.
He came to a team with all those homegrown pieces in place which influenced his decision to trade other top prospects, most of whom were blocked. Seems like good use of the farm based on the success Bostons farm has had. I dont see any reason for any negative comment on DDs decision here or Bostons farm system delivering a championship.
Right but will you be happy if this team sucks for several years to come while watching the Yankees win and Rays rise in the division. Nobody will argue DD won the championship and clearly made some great win now moves but the truth is ownership isn’t going to want to be this far over the luxury tax forever and with the farm fairly empty there aren’t a lot of cheap options to replace internally. Feels a lot like DD sacrifices the next 3-5 seasons to win one WS. Which I guess if you’re Boston and went 86 years without one you might be ok with that but in general most fans of big market teams expect to compete every year
DD didn’t exactly empty the system. Moncada certainly seem like a star in the making. Logan Allen looks like he’ll be a regular rotation piece. Margot is a regular, but hasn’t quite killed it. Shaw hurt, but he wasn’t really a minor leaguer at that point. Espinoza & Kopech have had TJS..
There might be a couple of B prospects that could emerge, but right now, the only guy he traded, that would be guaranteed to start, would be Moncada.
That’s a horrible trade. They should Contract the Orioles, they’re not even trying
Cashner sucks. He’s not worth anything
He’s worth two 17 year old kids and then only half the money he’s slated to make the rest of the year.
Sure. But that’s it. It’s a fair trade. Band aid until they get someone better. Makes sense.
Yes. Number 5 starter. Replaces Brian Johnson, Velasquez, and a bunch of other AAA Worthy starters.
Except they have even less of John Henry’s money to spend now.
What sucks about Cashner? The sub-4 ERA or the 9-3 record?
Don’t understand how the O’s trade Cashner for 2 17 yr old “prospects” who are still basically in “diapers”. Plus they are going to throw in some money.
What happens now? Didn’t Cash say he wouldn’t accept a trade or report to a new team?
If I got traded to a team with a great chance of going to the World Series, I’d accept all day and twice on Sunday.
FanGraphs gives the Red Sox a 64 percent change of advancing to the postseasdon and a 6.1 percent chance of winning the World Series:
fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds
FiveThirtyEight gives the Red Sox a 52 percent chance of advancing to the postseason and a 5 percent chance of winning the World Series:
projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2019-mlb-predictions/
id take those playoff odds gladly. Rays are the only viable team to get a wild card besides them. Cleveland doesnt want to pay to upgrade, and everyone in the AL west besides Houston has even bigger holes.
Except then sale and his 3-9 record would presumably have to start the wild card with that pen behind him. And even if they get through the wildcard game, it’s hard to imagine price, erod, or Porcello being good enough to win two games in a best of 5. Think those playoff odds are reasonable but WS odds are pretty generous. I also wouldn’t count out the Indians if Kluber comes back and some of those other border teams like Texas might surprise you. Going to come down to who gets hot and when but I certainly wouldn’t feel confident right now if I were Sox fan. That second WC spot could slip away fairly easily.
Great chance to eat Maine lobsters, or watch videos of last year’s World Series.
If I remember correctly he only hinted at it, he didn’t directly and clearly say he would refuse to play for a new team. He probably only felt that way about some other teams, not all of them. Plus I’m sure any acquiring team would be pretty sure if not 100% sure that he’d be willing to report before completing a deal for him.
I am a die hard Red Sox fan and I don’t see how this is going to make them better. I guess they are counting on Nathan Eovaldi ( don’t know how to spell it ) to make the bullpen better by himself
I didn’t know it was July 31st today?
Cashner is a decent pitcher and the atmosphere should help but he’s not a difference maker. If this is the only move for the post season run then Dombrowski failed.
Great pickup by DD really didn’t give anything up a couple of 17 year olds who aren’t even in their top 60 prospects. This has the potential to be a great pickup for the Red Sox he should be a solid 5th starter. Way to go DD.
Exactly. Only love this deal cause the return was so small.
Agreed – not only should Cash give them 5th starter innings, but he could be of value in the playoffs out of the bullpen. Solid move, good cost:benefit
If the Sox were going to make a deal, this was the best starter for the smallest return (meaning outside of coughing up top prospects for average starters). This at least puts a stop to the bullpen game every 5th day that we’ve been dealing with and can give the pen a chance to catch up.
Still think they should have been sellers, but maybe they will prove me wrong. Still need a closer. Go Sox. 🙂
1 game back of playoffs and havent played their best yet. Why be an embarrassment and sell? That’s a Marlin move, not a Red Sox move. They gave up nothing to get a plug that gives them a chance at a second half run. Future will be fine without an unnecessary rebuild.
I think the idea behind selling or at least not buying is they’re 9 games out and more importantly have looked flat out over matched by every decent team they’ve played this yr minus the twins (think a 1-6 record vs the yanks and 2-4 vs the Astros speaks for itself plus haven’t looked great against the Rays). If you’re not going to be able to compete then why bring in further luxury tax concerns and further empty an already depleted farm? That’s only going to set the them into a longer rebuild. This move does pretty much nothing, gave up nobody and got nobody in my opinion. It helps to eat up a few innings but that assumes he’ll go deep into games which isn’t a given with that short porch in NY. But if you’re a Sox fan and they mortgage what’s left of the farm and still come up short that’s a disaster for you.
My personal opinion is this is a team that dramatically overperformed last year and underperformed (so far) this year. The real talent level that lays somewhere between the two seasons is much more than a pitcher or two away from being great. The infield is fairly weak defensively but they can’t upgrade because of the above average bats. Which means lots of plays on gap balls aren’t made and DP balls result in only 1 out which drives up the pitch count on the starters who aren’t going deep enough into games which exposes the weak pen. There’s also a lack of depth so if JD or Betts get hurt forget it. If I were DD I’d be looking for 2 BP arms plus a really good defensive utility IF (even if they can’t hit) that can sub in. Problem is idk where the money or prospects are coming to get that…
They are actually getting the same or more production from every spot except for JD and Betts this year offensively. It all boils down to not having SPs go throuh spring and underperforming this year. Defense is still way above average when looking acrossed the diamond. They either play to potential, the team that last year dominated the Yanks, Astros, Dodgsrs, etc. or they don’t. Maybe WS hangover is real but they are as good as any team if pitching shows up.
I disagree. Also not sure how you call an infield with Devers and Chavis above average. Bogarts is fine in the field but certainly not stellar defensively. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think this team just getting a pitcher or even 2 will make them great. They had a lot of guys that overplayed for their talent last year and were remarkably healthy. I think this years team proves that
I understand it’s a sample size of one game and it’s not even over yet but tonight is a perfect example of what I said… bogarts error in the first inning cost 3 runs and drove the pitch count up to almost 30 pitches in the first inning. Price going to be out of the game in 5 and now the pen has to cover 4 innings. Even if they get 1 reliever, you’re still looking for 3 innings of coverage
The error cost them one batter, so that’s maybe an extra 5-6 pitches. Price seldom goes deep any more. He’s had one start of 7 innings.
Overall I think this is a decent move by the Sox as they definitely needed a 5th starter. However my one concern is the impact on their luxury tax penalties for next season… if this move pushes them into the highest penalty and costs them 10 spots in next year’s 1st Round Draft — idk that this move is really enough to ‘tip the scales’ and make them a true contender this season, while the cost of dropping 10 spots in the draft could be significant (both from the actual pick/player available and also from the loss of draft pool $ to sign all of their top 10 picks)
It’s also possible that this move doesn’t push them into that bracket (or the $ considerations they’re receiving are enough to prevent such a penalty) OR its possible they are already over the threshold. Again I do like the deal overall BUT also am not sure it’s really all that much of a “game-changer” if it’s the only move they make. IF they also go out and get a CL/RP – or Eovaldi comes back and is lights out… maybe, just maybe… this is enough to solidify things for them. But as things sit right now… I’m just not confident that it is enough to get them over the hump.
Having said that, they have been playing much better as of late – and their offense has been quite impressive over the past 15 or so games. So if they can pitch well enough and their offense continues clicking… we could be in for quite a ride – as the potential is there. It’s just a matter of things coming together/going right for them and they could really put a stretch run for the ages together. We shall see.
This does mean they exceeded the threshold, which in my eyes was a dumb move, but if they decided to be buyers rather then building for a future the way they should have, this was inevitable… This is the #1 reason why a fast rebuild would have been the way to go with a Mookie Betts, JD & Porcello trade. Could have brought back quite a haul of prospects in 3 separate deals and unloaded $40 mil even if they ate quite a chunk of some of the contracts.
Dumb, smart move. Made the best move, but still dumb to not understand the situation the Sox are now in.
Bubye 2021-2027 or so…Unless John Henry is prepared to push close to $300 million for a few years.
It still depends on how much $ is in the “cash considerations” given that at least one of the 2 17 year olds the Sox gave up has already put up solid numbers in the DSL – it’s possible the O’s are chipping in enough $ to keep the Sox under the threshold… but it’s also quite possible (even likely) that they didn’t and the Sox are now past it.
Totally disagree with this assessment. The Red Sox can still go into a soft rebuild after the season. I think it all hinges on if JDM opts out or not. If he opts out then Boston could also trade Mookie for a nice prospect haul. They would have Porcello, Pearce and Moreland off the books they also won’t resign Nunez. They could easily go below the Lux Tax and reset and they would add some solid prospects in a Mookie trade. They don’t have to punt this season.
Farm is decimated.
John Henry doesn’t care about Luxury Tax penalties, draft consequences, or what the roster’s going to look like in 2022…..
He’s too busy finding volunteers to polish those 4 World Series trophies…..
He does care about losing 10 spots in the draft. I agree the money is really inconsequential to John Henry.
You don’t get rich by giving money away.
Gary 7:13
And they were great in London.
I wish the Phillies made this move. They would have been able to afford to go and get another starter too
Boyd.
You don’t know crap Melvin
just wait and see
Over at baseballtradevalues.com, we had Cashner’s value at $-2.7M. We don’t yet know how much cash the O’s kicked in, but we suspect it’s in that ballpark. The two kids coming back from Boston are not worth more than $0.2M in our model (probably more like $0.1M each), so we think overall we got this one right.
https://www.baseballtradevalues.com
So now that we know, after doing the math that includes Baltimore’s contribution, we have Cashner’s surplus at $0.4M. Very close to the value of those prospects that came back.
The prospects contracts are irrelevant for luxury tax purposes. As neither of them were obviously on the 40-man roster their contracts don’t count towards the luxury tax penalties.
Sorry, I’m not referring to any luxury tax penalties. I’m talking about Cashner’s surplus trade value, which I’m quantifying.
Right Jeff. However Cashners does.
Pen hasn’t been great, but a deeper look at SP/RP splits indicates that the SPs are making the RPs work harder than most bullpens. Sox RPs are tops in IP, H & SV opps. Price has been excellent. Sale very good. Otherwise it has been a dice-roll. If they can get to league-average in blown saves, they should make the playoffs. Due to their elite offense, I believe their approach is the ripe effect of a back-end rotational stability addition like cashner should bump a fringe starter like Velazquez into the pen, adding a decent arm to an overworked pen. Then pen can K (and BB) people…gotta keep that type of pitcher sharp. Hopefully a reduction in innings, and high-leverage innings pitched. Reduce the number of SVOs rather than expressly paying to convert more SVOs. If eovaldi is the closer, for better or worse your 6-8 inning guys can get in a rhythm. All in all, it’s providing enough depth and stability to stop wasting a season of elite offense, and get into the playoffs.
I agree with everything except 3-8, about to be 3-9 Sale being very good. If he was very good and was 9-3 we would be near first place.
good* not ‘very’.
1st 4 starts: 8.50 era
next 12: 2.44
last 3: 8.27
Streaky, but overall good. Certainly not good by his own standards, but suppose I was optimistic he’d be close to himself for the remainder of the year given that 12 start run. Clearly hes gotta make another correction, especially after tonight’s egg.
Just noticed, he’s had 6 quality starts where he did not get the W. In fact, he took the L in 3 of them. W/L is pretty imprecise IMHO
It is pretty imprecise but an ace shouldn’t leave so many decisions in the hands of the bullpen. Quit throwing so many pitches in 6 innings and only ask the pen for 1 or 2 innings and not 3-4. I’m not saying he has been terrible but even he admits he has to be a lot better. He should be protecting the pen, not overextending it.
Good move. imo. Wheeler was my first choice, but Cashner was #2, especially at this price.
Uh, ….
Not only is Cashner a boost to the rotation, but Velazquez to the bullpen is huge. His relief splits are so much better than his starting splits.
The O’s shouldve gotten more out of a starter who is owed roughly $4 million guaranteed with control next year
Good move by DD. Why? Because it cost nothing but two guys who might have value in 5 years or longer if ever. About the time they are developing into major league players the Orioles might be winning more than 50 games. Perfect trade for both teams.
Upside, Cashner gets us some wins in the 5 hole. Downside, he stinks and we are no worse off than before except we are missing two insignificant parts of our minor league roster. There is no risk in the move because next to no money was involved so whatever is left under the cap is pretty much still there. If Cashner handles playing for Boston, it gives us the freedom to use Eovaldi as the closer and puts Cashner in long relief in the playoffs.
This probably forces Cashman to make a move and he is strapped for money too. If he wants to go big, he’ll have to cough up top prospects. I’m not sure he’s prepared to do that because the farm system might fall in the rankings! It will be fun to see how the Yankees respond to this move. Are they all-in and willing to pass the 3rd penalty tier or are they willing to ‘strip’ their farm system in hopes of beating Boston in the playoffs? Time will tell!
They traded for two guys that are 17 years old?
Are you a product of that. What the hell kinda comment is that
Didn’t bite on what? Two lotto tickets? That’s ridiculous, they have a bigger need than Boston for starters.
If they get anything out of him win wise then it was a good trade. If he doesn’t do well they are back to square one. I don’t think Cashner has really ever been on a good team. Who knows, perhaps a change of scenery and attitude will do him a world of good.
Low key move, exactly what I expected from the Red Sox, can’t say I thought it would be Cashner though. The Sox can’t get a star pitcher but Cashner looks to be a decent middle of the rotation arm that also helps the pen by the simple addition of a starter.
As for the Orioles, complete lottery tickets.
They should still be under the most penalizing cap. I’m guessing with the Orioles paying half the remaining salary.
and Rosenthal says the Phillies were interested too. Great. Red Sox have extreme financial constraints and still couldn’t pay more. ugh, i fear this will be a theme going forward.
Does anybody know if these prospects are decent? I know its hard to tell at 17 but is there a scouting report anywhere? Regardless, a good deal for the Os in that Cashner wasn’t getting them out of the basement and if either one of these prospects hits it will fill one of their many holes.
This may be the only deal the Sox can make before breaking the cap if they haven’t done so already.
He finally got to the Yankees and time to shave the beard again
Damn I thought it said Yankees I wanted him to shave that beard again
I’m kinda of confused by this. I’m not a red Sox fan but if they needed a 5th starter didn’t they just get one back in Steven wright? or is he a reliever the rest of the way or be used like Wakefield and be tweener?
He can’t start In the postseason nor is he as good as Cash this year.
For two rookie ball lotto tickets, why not?
Plus he can’t start his knee won’t allow it he isn’t an option to start other then a 1 or 2 inning starter.
Good point about the knee so why not slot him in the closer role?
Can’t have a knuckleballer as your closer to unpredictable I think they will give Eovaldi a chance to close.
This reminds me didn’t they use Tim Wakefield as a closer for a bit? I think he was pretty good too.
Wakefield was used a consistent closet in 1999 and he was well not real good.
“Closer”
Generally, the best value that a knuckler brings is that they can consistently go deep into a game. Picking 2004 at random, Wakefield went 6+ in 21 of his 30 starts.
Not sure why Baltimore had to eat most of the contract. I hope these 2 17-year olds are worth it. There had to be some teams willing to eat the $3 or $4 million for a starting pitcher with those stats this year. Wow though. I didn’t know San Diego gave up Rizzo for this guy. No wonder the Padres have never won a Championship.
Well at least they have a pretty city…
Didn’t Cashner say he would retire if he was traded?
And the Rizzo-Cashner trade finally comes full circle.
I think this is a pretty decent trade for both sides. I’m an Orioles fan, and Cashner has looked much, much better this season compared to last. He’s been on a really hot run over his last 6-7 starts in particular. I think he should be a decent 5th starter, and as MLBTR pointed out previously, he could be used out of the pen later on if they want to limit his innings to avoid the 2020 vesting option. Orioles got a couple young guys who could develop into something, or maybe nothing, but I’m assuming Elias likes them for some reason. After last year, I thought they’d be lucky getting a bag of balls for Cashner. I will also add, he seems like a great teammate. He’s always in the dugout on his off days cheering on the team and getting fired up.
Two thoughts relating to the Orioles;
– removing Cashner from their Starting Rotation further weakens the team this year, thereby bolstering their chances of getting the Number. #1 Pick next June in the Amateur Draft next June,
– Koby Perez and/or Mike Elias must have some idea about the ceiling on one or both of these young players.
Very incremental move for the Orioles in the incremental phase of their re-build.
As an O’s fan I’m dissapointed at losing Cashner. The Red Sox fans are going to be happy to have him. He’s not an ace but he always competes and he’s always in the dugout supporting his teammates. This is a steal for the Red Sox, especially considering they got the O’s to throw in some cash. I think Os could have got more if they waited.
This is a smart move by Dombrowski. Cashner seems to be the ideal 5th starter type who was having a strong year on a bad team. He should help the Sox a lot with Evoldi being the closer. I think they still need one more reliever. They also have Steven Wright back as a knuckle ball pitcher to help as a spot starter.
Typical Dombrowski as he does not waste much time making moves before everyone else. He does not want the price to go up for teams that do not get Wheeler or MBumgardner. In day 2 weeks the price for Cashner might have been a lot more.
So they traded him for 2 kids they could’ve just signed had they ever paid attention to the international market?
Place money on Cashner trying to impress Boston faithful and plunking a Yankee and a big brawl ensuing igniting a rivalry for the ages! Unfortunately Boston will not win this fight.
That cashner trade for rizzo changed the cubs forever. It was 4 long grueling losing seasons before they finally started winning. I’ll take at least 30 homers and 100 rbi every year for the last 5 years over cashner. Who never found his grove
Cashner is a perfect example of somebody the Braves would go after. Thanks to the Sox, that will not happen!
I like the idea of seeing an Orioles pitcher blowing up games for the Red Sox.
A solid number 5 starter for 2 “prospects”. Excellent job DD. The two he sent weren’t even in the top 30 of their terrible farm system. They got him for free.
Now go get a reliever.
This is not the type of move that says “hello World Series” it says, “we have nothing left to trade in the minors so this is what we get”. Wild Card team at best.
It says we traded nothing to get an MLB capable arm and Os agreed to pay half the salary. If they wanted to shoot higher they have Cassas, Dalbec, Durran, Mata, Chatham,Wilson, etc that would have been part of the conversation. Glad they arent trading out of their top 30 this year. This plugs the hole and the rest of the rotation improves or it is just a WS hangover season but dont keep going if the team just isnt going to fully show up.
Wild Card team at best.
———————————-
That’s a bold prediction about a team 10 games out with 69 games to play.
Red Sox fans make me regurgitate.
Cashner should do well in Boston. Very good trade.
Not the kind of SP I was expecting them to get…
I don’t get it. Cashner is not going to help the Bosox win anything. Cashner is barely quality depth.
Let me explain it to you. Cashner is 9-3 with a 3.83.
The 5-slot has produced a 2-7 with an ERA of 6.56.
So, to conclude:
9-3 is better than 2.7.
3.83 is better than 6.56.
Any other questions?
That’s the past. The key word being past. Going forward has nothing to do with the past.
You see that right?
Cashner won’t help them.
Actually Jimmer I think he will help the Red Sox fifth starter has been a joke this year. Cashner is an improvement and will be better then the other 5th starters this year and should help with the bullpen having to pitch 6 or 7 innings on most of the 5th starters starts this year. Cashner will inderctly help the bullpen. The Red Sox season hangs on the other 4 starters stepping up and pitching like they are capable of. Cashner was brought in to lead them to the playoffs they already have those guys he was brought in to solidify the back of the rotation and in this job he should be fine.
I hear you. Let’s see how Cashner’s innings are the second half. Quality or not.
Cashner won’t help them.
————————————
Cashner won’t out-perform what we’ve seen out of the 5-hole so far? Is that your case? You’re welcome to your opinion, but how is it possible that he won’t waaay out-perform what we’ve seen?
That’s the past. The key word being past. Going forward has nothing to do with the past.
———————————————————-
Yes, every single thing that has happened in the world is in the past. I don’t even know how to process that remark. Is there anything we rely on that is not in the past?
Hey Joe, what that means in a baseball performance context is just becuase someone has done okay in the past, like the current year Cashner is having, means that in the future, as he joins Boston, he may continue doing well or he may royally suck.
Analytics cannot tell us what is going to happen in the future like intuitive based scouting can..
I say he is going to suck with the Bosox and not help them win.
Who did people think Boston could get with their farm system? A flame throwing prospect reliever with years of control just netted a top 100 prospect. Boston fans are delusional if they think they can be players in this market.
They dont have name recognition this year since they have a roster that has Vazquez, Bogaerts, Devers, Benintendi, Bradley, Betts, Workman, etc. They also traded Moncada, Kopech, Espinoza, Margot to get MLB stars and have a WS parade. They are rebuilding but Chavis played onto the MLB roster, Dalbec has big power, Cassas is an 18 yr old w big power having a nice season, Durran played from off the radar to the Futures game, Hernandez is on the cusp after a great AFL last year, Wilson was picked up for homegrown Swihart and hitying .300+, Chatham is .300+ at AA also. Mata still has value. Feltman is developing towards a bullpen role. Groome is recovering and Tommy John doesnt hurt your status like years ago. Then throwin lower level guys like this and while it would take a package, they have enough. I hope they dont trade any more of it for 2019.
Smart move by Dave D. He knew he did not have the ammo/cards to land a front line starter or get into a bidding war with any team. So, he strikes fast and first and makes a decent pickup of a journeyman starter guy who can probably not mess up the #5 spot any worse than the last 5-6 guys he tried to post there..
Have always liked Dave D…..pulling rabbits out of hats…
Have plenty of cards to land higher, gave up nothing to get an MLB arm and have the team eat salary. Smart move to only do this.
People are acting like Sox fans think this is MadBum. He is a 5th starter, they need a 5th starter. The 5th starter so far goes an average of 3 innings giving up 6 runs. This acquisition will not get the Sox to post season, and probably not make the post season roster – should they make it. The Sox needed depth. i.e., someone with a pulse, who could improve on their rotation. It won’t take much, and this isn’t much. Still a good move. Most of us don’t want the Sox to mortgage the future on this group. There are too many players that need to play better, Sale and Betts are good examples. They go nowhere if they don’t improve. This roster, as constructed, should already have been good enough to do far better than they have.
This latest update is hilarious. You dont normally see Performance Bonus and Andrew Cashner in the same hemisphere let alone the same sentence.
Traded Rizzo away for this guy
This might be one of the worst set of responses I’ve ever seen in here. Some of the Yankee fans in here need to become familiar with Baseball Reference or Fangraphs. Is Cashner a #1? Of course not. Is a good #5? Of course he is. Which is exactly what we need. And at a price we could afford.
The funny part is, while I like this trade for 2019, if Cashner keeps pitching like this, we will likely pick up his option. His 1.8 WAR probably extrapolates to about 3.0 for a full season. $10M would be very cheap for that production.
Not a Red Sox fan, however, I think this is a low cost move that makes an upgrade. Smart front office move by Boston. Not sure how this helps the Orioles.
Well the o’s are in full rebuild start at the bottom and work up not to mention saving 1.8mil
Have most of you commenters not been watching the Red Sox this year? I’d rather see Cashner on the mound right now than Sale or Porcello. He’s probably not going to win the cy young award, but he’s 9-3 with a 3.83 era…for Baltimore!!!! And in case you havent looked, we are in third place in the division race and third place in the last wild card spot. Management isnt going to go out and get Scherzer for a third place team. I think it was a great no risk pickup. Its not like putting a catcher at first base to keep his bat in the lineup. ( by the the way ,how bad would that stupid move have looked if Devers had gotten hurt on that rediculus throw to third by Vasquez). He’s a number 5 starter who might be having a career year. Who cares if his stats are a fluke? If he stays even reasonably close to these numbers; he’s a huge upgrade at the 5 spot compaired to what we have now.
I’m legitimately shocked by how few commentators understand the trade. By far, our worst position is our #5 SP, and I mean by far.. And Cashner has not only been good this season, he’s also not bad for his career. Even if we don’t get what we’ve seen so far, he was more than good enough to be our #5 in 2012-2015, 2017, and 2019.
Wow, Cashner is doing great against the Jays in his first Bosox game. Against the Jays even, sad.
As I said when the trade happened, Cashner will not help this team, even in the #5 rotation spot.
Normally Dombrowski makes great decisions. I don’t like this decision.