Losers of eight of 10 since the All-Star break, the Pirates’ already slim playoff hopes have taken a beating over the past week-plus. At 46-53, they’re six games out of a wild-card spot and 7 1/2 behind the National Central-leading Cubs. Only three NL teams have worse records than the Pirates, who will have to jump seven clubs in order to earn a playoff position. It’s probably safe to say they’re going to extend their postseason drought to four years in 2019.
This happens to be the fourth season in Pittsburgh for reliever Felipe Vazquez, though he’s obviously not to blame for the team’s ongoing struggles. In fact, since the Pirates acquired the flamethrowing left-hander from the Nationals in a deal for veteran reliever Mark Melancon in July 2016, Vazquez has evolved into one of the majors’ premier late-game options. Vazquez was downright exceptional over the previous two seasons, but this may go down as his best campaign to date. The 28-year-old has pitched to a dominant 1.91 ERA/2.02 FIP with 14.03 K/9 against 2.34 BB/9 in 42 1/3 innings, adding 21 saves on 22 tries for good measure.
Considering Vazquez’s brilliance, not to mention the Pirates’ woes, there is a case they should consider parting with him before the July 31 deadline. The fact that Vazquez is controllable over the next few seasons for team-friendly salaries would help enable the Pirates to land an enormous return for him. The club shrewdly signed the strikeout artist formerly known as Felipe Rivero to a four-year, $22MM extension months before the 2018 season. He’s under wraps through at least 2021 as a result, though the way his career’s going, it looks like a sure thing right now that his employer will exercise $10MM club options in 2022 and ’23. Granted, those decisions are a long distance off, and considering the volatility of relievers, Vazquez could turn into a pumpkin by then. Perhaps that’s another reason to sell high on Vazquez now. But general manager Neal Huntington doesn’t seem to agree. Huntington has shot down the possibility of a Vazquez trade twice this month, noting both times that he expects the two-time All-Star to be indispensable to the Pirates’ next playoff team.
“Our expectation and anticipation is that Felipe will be closing out playoff games, be it this year or in the future with us,” Huntington said on July 1.
Unlike back then, the Pirates’ season now looks as if it’s close to flatlining. Nevertheless, Huntington remains steadfast in his desire to keep Vazquez, having said this past weekend that “we always have to entertain ways to make this organization — and ideally this current club — better. Sometimes you make the future clubs better, but we fully anticipate Felipe will be closing the next playoff games that we’re a part of.”
It certainly wouldn’t be indefensible on Pittsburgh’s part to retain Vazquez, who’s magnificent and affordable (all the more important for a low-spending franchise). On the other hand, Vazquez would probably be the best relief trade chip in the game if the Pirates were to shop him over the next week. What should they do?
(Poll link for app users)
No.
76% say Yes.
While all team’s fans in contention automatically scroll down and vote yes.
As a pirates fan, I voted yes. If Hurdle refuses to use him in a tie game or a situation with the tying or winning run at bat before the 9th inning he’s basically pitching 40-50 useless innings a year and 15 meaningful ones.
Clint cannot think outside the box to use Vasquez like Andrew Miller was used-anytime after the sixth inning at key points.He also does not have another dependable reliever for use then later in the game.
I think that he is afraid to overwork Vasquez to the point of wasting his talent.Clint plans ahead too much to the next day and does not realize the import of the present game.
I disagree with your statement of useless innings as Vasquez is always used when the game is on the line.
It’s stupid not to trade him. Pirates need to focus on getting a core to enable them to even have a playoff contender. A closer is not vital to a team that is mediocre!
What @chippahawk said!
@ dmere66. Stupid to trade him unless offered the sun, moon, and some stars as well. There is no rush to trade him just to trade him. Should be an overwhelming deal to sonsider moving him.
RIP
Holmes, Mateo & Barreto for Vazquez
Nice comment bait. Should catch you some nice responses.
No thanks, as an A’s fan.
The prospects back would have to be truly special.
I think he’s going to the Dodgers. With 1 of there top 4 prospects coming in return, along with others of course.
I don’t see the Pirates as World Series contenders in the near future. I’m not saying they won’t be a good team, but they need to make some additions. So it would make sense to trade Vasquez in hopes to get some impact prospects who will be ready by 2021 to match up with Hayes, Swaggerty and Oneil.
And by Oneil, I mean Oneil Cruz.
There is absolutely no assurance that those three players will be good ML players by then if at any time.
Theres no assurance that if they did trade Vaz for prospects, those prospects would be impactful players either.
There’s no assurance Vaz will be good next year either.
Pirates aren’t World Series contenders but Swaggerty and Cruz both have a few years of seasoning to go yet. Hayes, Mitch Keller, Cole Tucker, and Will Craig are the only immediate in house prospects available which makes all the more sense to trade Vazquez to add to that group in my opinion.
I think that all of them will have a tough time breaking in to the Pirates.Neither Tucker nor Keller performed all that well with the Pirates but each has promise.Craig is blocked and the Phillies found out the hard way last year that you cannot just move a first baseman to the outfield and call him an outfielder.Hayes needs Craig’s power to excel at third base.Cruz and Swaggerty are much too young to have any surety as to whether they will be good ML players.
Besides the Dodgers and Rays, who else even has a realistic shot at landing Vazquez??
Astros, Twins, and Braves
The Braves have a top 3 farm system and a need at closer, so I’d say they’re a realistic possibility.
Yeah, I think the Pirates should be focused on 2021. The prospects they could get for Vasquez would probably add more to that squad than he would himself.
It’s a competitive division and that isn’t likely to change soon. A team like Pittsburgh needs to constantly retool to stay relevant. The misses on the Cole and Archer trades really hampered their ability to compete near term so I think a larger scale sell-off makes a lot of sense. Vasquez/Archer/Marte all should be shopped and sold if the price is right.
Why shop their best players unless they are redundant?Those three would still be relevant in 2021.Prospects are always a crapshoot.
Cole is irrelevant since he would be gone in a couple of months and the Pirates got three fairly good players for him plus a decent minor leaguer.The Archer trade is still up for grabs and will be for another year.
The only way they do anything to get and stay in contention this year or next is on the back of a strong finisher. Exactly what Vasquez is and will be.
The pirates be better off shedding some dead weight like lyles, archer, and Brault along. Along with a new manager that will manage instead of befriending the players.
Archer for Brandon Marsh? Think the Pirates would sell low so quickly after giving up Meadows and Glasnow?
They have him for 4 more years after 2019. Why would they trade him if they plan to contend within the next 4 years?
Because they’ll be back to contending for a 1 game play in.
Damn, didn’t realize he was under contract that long. Still it’s more reason that hes worth a haul. I think a package of talent helps more than one elite RP and the Pirates seem like they are multiple pieces away from being a healthy organization longterm
Right. And there is a great young offensive core right now. We get some pitchers healthy and get an addition or two (some by trading our expiring players like Cabrera and Dickerson) and we can do something next year. Certainly within the 4 more years we have of Vasquez’s services.
The offense is average and ranks about the middle of the league with about 4 runs per game. What do you expect they will get by trading Melky and Dickerson? If anything one of them will be extended because of Polanco’s struggles. Vazquez is a great closer, but right now the Pirates don’t need a great closer since they’re usually down in the 9th or Hurdle puts in Clay Holmes in the 10th instead of Vazquez and he gives up a grand slam to lose the game. This team won’t contend until the end of his contract, and you know they won’t sign him to another. It’s time to deal him and get a haul before it’s too late.
Not much of a haul is being offered. Pirates lead the NL in BA, and the young core in particular is hitting well… Reynolds, Bell, Moran, Newman, even Frazier’s picking it up. Heck Ozuna’s even hitting, and of course Marte is still solid. Jacob Stalling is hitting 300 in a small sample and the guy can catch. This is something to build on.
I say Amen to that dial,but unfortunately you mentioned nothing about pitching.
Vasquez is their only trustworthy pitcher.
They have to find out who can pitch this year for next year as their season was doomed when NH supplied no pitching depth.
If they can get a package with 2-3 solid minor leaguers then I would say go for it. Basically if they can get an overpay like several other premium relievers have netted in previous deadline deals then I think they should go for it. But if they don’t get an offer that blows them away then they should hang onto him.
You dont trade a piece like Vasquez for solid minor leaguers . You need to get back a top 50 prospects plus 2 or 3 other decent prospects
80 win true talent teams have no need for elite relievers.
Then they become 68 win poor teams very quickly.
Nothing more disheartening than blowing saves.
Ask the Pirates this year about relief pitchers other than Vasquez.
Long time reader, first time commenter…
As a Bucs fan, I’m loathe to admit it’s time to move Vasquez. Surely the Dodgers can afford a deal we can’t refuse. Lux, Verdugo and at least 1 lottery ticket. The team should show a willingness to pony up for a closer this winter (yeah yeah, I know fat chance), unless maybe Santana next year?
Dodgers won’t trade verdugo. Maybe you could get k Ruiz though instead
Verdugo isn’t going anywhere. I’m thinking Ruiz, Pederson, and 2 other good prospects.
Imagine thinking the Dodgers would trade not only Lux the best player in AAA but Alex Verdugo their recently graduated number 1 overall prospect for the last 5 years aka (Alex Verdugo) If you are going to ask for that much you might as well also ask for Buehler and Bellinger.
Then the Bucs say no. They don’t need to trade Vasquez, unless someone offers a big return. The contract makes him even more valuable.
Verdugo won’t be dealt, it’ll be between Will Smith, Keibert Ruiz, Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin and Gavin Lux. Friedman said he believes the system is deep enough to absorb another deadline deal. Pirates easily take a deal with Lux and Ruiz/Smith.
Dodgers are not trading Lux. All these fans of teams thinking they can get him is cute.
And fans from contending teams thinking they can strip the carcasses of non-contenders while protecting all their top talent is infuriating. “We suck, so we should just give you our best players for free. You’ll know how to use them better and everyone will be happy. Here’s some magic beans for your trouble.”
No there is plenty of reason to think the Dodgers would trade a top prospect like Ruiz for Velazquez. But not Lux he is flat our untouchable
Than they can lose again in playoffs too Big payroll and cant win cause their bull pen stinks. All stars very postion. Number ones in starters and keep ur best prospects and lose trade for the best relief pitcher in the game and win. I would take only 3 of top 10 prospects or no go
I almost got a seizure trying to read that
There’s no reason to trade him unless you’re getting an unreal package for him.
How many relievers stay dominate after 5 years? Answer: few and far between. Trade him or regret it within a year or two.
Chapman, Mariano, Smith Kimbrel, Gossage, Tekulve, Reardon….. several elite relievers that were elite for years…,,Vasquez is elite.
Always hated it when playing the Reds and Chapman came in with a lead. Frickin game over. Vasquez is the closest we will have to our own Chapman and I want to keep him. Sorry, Dodgers. Find someone else.
They don’t need a star reliever. Trade him for guys who can either give you 200 innings or play everyday. Multiple players like that is what a team like the Pirates need.
Quite frankly,the Pirates are pretty well set with position players and reserves.
They need pitching.
Dodger fans say all of their top prospects are untouchable.Then so is Vasquez.
They don’t call him Nightmare for nothing.
Will Pittsburgh be able to get a couple of good 200 inning young starting pitchers?How many of them are around?
Yes,Vasquez could go downhill.But that could happen to anyone,including anyone received in trade.
The only way he should be traded is for three rop prospects and no one will pony up.
Everyone says they should trade him because they will get so much back for him and then propose packages that don’t even come close to moving the needle.
Unless the offer is going to cause a torch wielding mob to surround that GM’s office…unless it’s going to alter the Pirates franchise…
No reason to do it.
They can get the kind of offers bandied about with only 2-3 years of control. Keep him.
⏫This
It’s hilarious how everybody says to trade him and then immediately type their teams list of “untouchables”.
You want an elite, cheap, young closer for the next four years you don’t have an “untouchable.”
Agreed. The Chapman deal netted two top 5 prospects, young major leaguer w/2.5 years control and a lower level prospect. And he was a RENTAL! This would have to be the starting point of a conversation.
Bingo we have a winner!
would have to be crazy over pay. given his control and skill set. that would be many top 100ish prospect one of which is elite type that are near mlb ready and some change and only if they are reasonably sure burdi will be able to return in 20 who seems to had closer type stuff.
reason why is cause an elite closer is pointless if you dont have a lead.
Neal is such a dreamer…..
No unless you can get a team to overpay by a fair amount.
Need to package him with either Marte or Polanco and let’s get it done AA. Braves have the pieces dont they dont. Include Kyle Wright and Kolby Allard with Pache should only require another mid piece and we are good.
Pirates have the right to ask for whatever they wish for Vazquez. However, if you want to find a fit with the Dodgers, the package can start with a catcher, Ruiz or Smith. Add in Gray or Gonsolin. Then if they are looking for Major League talent, the Dodgers could include Stripling and Pederson. Pederson could probably net the Pirates a second tier prospect from an AL contender like the Indians. if the Pirates do not view him as a fit on their club once Polanco is healthy…
Give me their lefty reliever that can start who is still young. Forgot his name
Julio Urias
Jersey-I think that this offer is the closest to getting a deal done.
The Pirates need a young catcher and pitching.
If they can get Stripling and another top tier pitching prospect along with the catcher and another good player or prospect I think that NH has to do the deal.
Any offer for Vazquez from the Dodgers has to include Ruiz and May, both.
and that still woudln’t be enough. May is at best a midrotation arm. Ruiz is a high quality prospect but far from elite. ….
I’d argue Russel Martin would also be a must but just because i miss super-russ 😉
I don’t think that would do it.
Stripling would be more off a toss in / sweetner for stripling… no where near the headline.
If the pirates do deal with the dodgers… i’d like Russell Martin back
whoops i ment sweetner for Felipe.
Stripling is 30 and Pederson is about to get expensive through arbitration, no thanks. They need all young, controllable players if they make a deal at all. Lux should be the headliner followed by Gonsolin and a few others on the 14-20 ranking.
It’s a big ask but this is a big time player.
Braves Fan here, would AJ Minter, Bryce Wilson & 1 lower level prospect get Velazquez??
No chance. Anderson, Waters at least.
Dodgers would view Julio Urias as a similarly capable lefty bullpen arm as Vazquez. Urias has no closer experience, but has been lights out pitching out of the bullpen thus far…. They need to add to the bullpen, not trade one of their best in-house options.
The amount of people who voted yes for this just demonstrate the widespread extent of group think on current practice in baseball team construction. Vasquez is a cornerstone piece on a team close to contending. The Pirates would be wise to hang onto him.
If you can get back a top 50 prospect , 2 organizational top 30s and a lottery ticket like the yanks did for Chapman and Miller back in 2016 you have to make the trade.
A closer is useless on a non contending team and when you’re ready to contend a solid closer can be had in free agency at an affordable price
If I’m not mistaken, Chapman went for the Cubs 2 top prospects and Miller went for 2 top 5 organizational prospects. The Padres are looking for a similar return for Yates and the Tigers are looking for a top 50 prospect for Greene. Neither has the tack record or financial term of Vasquez. He SHOULD require two top 5 prospects + 2 top 30 prospects but with the Pirates, you never know.
Keep him
As a dodger fan, I’d think Ruiz, gosolin (sp?) downs and Pedersen would be a fair trade. 1 great prospect, 2 really good prospects, and a descent Mlb player they can use or flip.
This is fair and realistic.Where else are teams trading a top 5 minor league catcher… nobody and the Dodgers 2nd top pitching prospect who is MLB ready Rising SS That will be ready in 2021 as long with a Power hitting outfielder that can play all three positions with another year of control for a relief pitcher?The bucks need an in flux of MLB young talent that can be ready soon
The offers listed on this thread prove my point. People talk in theory of this “huge haul” but in reality not one of them is even close to worth moving 4.5 years of Vazquez (at a minimum, he likes it here and can be extended again).
If the Dodgers or Braves want him, they have the pieces, but neither of them is likely to meet the price. I don’t think anyone else does.
Pirates need pitching prospects and the Braves need a Closer, surely these two teams match up perfectly!!
The Braves have more Pitching prospects than they know what to do with, couldn’t they package 2 or 3 of them and get the Closer they desperately need.
Here’s how I see it for the Pirates trade possibilities:
Marte: Only if they have completely given up on the next 2 years, which I doubt is the case. This would signal a full rebuild which Nutting doesn’t believe in. He believes in trying to suck the fans in until August or September and win 80 games every year.
Archer: Not going anywhere, because it would be laughable would they would get back and make last year’s trade look like a joke.
Vazquez: 4 years of control it had better be a massive haul, but I would be shopping him. Like many have said you don’t need a great closer on a mediocre team. He’s way more valuable on a good team, much like a kicker in the NFL. I would expect to get a similar haul like was gotten for Chapman. My gut suspects they end up trading him though because there’s not much else that they could get anything back from and LA/ATL have the need and the prospects to get it done. This would keep him in the NL, but out of the NL central, so not that bad.
Melky, Dickerson, and Lyles: Trade them for a few lottery tickets. They have a little value on contenders and this season is over.
That’s about it, but what else would you expect from a team 8 games under 500 with a -58 run differential, which is 14th in the NL.
I definitely felt like they overachieved last year, but simply the talent isn’t there, which is why trading Vazquez makes the most sense. Hopefully Huntington realizes that LA and ATL both need him and can pay for him, and that will drive up the price.
If it was me I would be blowing it up, but I doubt that will happen.
If the return looks anything like what others have said it will likely be, then I’d yes.
I think I saw these names being thrown around… Keibert Ruiz (Catcher, #1 Prospect according to MLB.com), Jeter Downs (2B/SS, #6 Prospect), D.J. Peters (OF, #10 Prospect), and Yadier Alvarez (Pitcher, #14 Prospect)
That would be an absolute haul for the Pirates. The question, though, is that too much for the Dodgers? I’d imagine that Gavin Lux and Dustin May are untouchable.
With Felipe’s control Ruiz and May have to be on the table.. really every prospect should be on the table.
Ruiz and May would have to be in the package for me to even talk to them about it. then toss in Stripling plus one or two more B/B+ types (of what ever position preferably catching/pitching but whatever). That would be fair. But to get him they would have to over pay so now you’re talking dropping in a Lux or Smith or other controllable MLB player into the mix.
Pirates got a fair back log of infield and outfield prospects/rookies with a lot of control, catching and pitching is where they’re need is.
I dont think you’re getting 3 top 50 prospects. Ruiz + May + 3 in the top 30 gets it done. If that trade isn’t acceptable for the Dodgers, call Atlanta about Waters + Anderson + 3 top 30. If both say no and wont budge on the headliners, you dont sell. Let them lose late to the Yanks.
Hunting will trade him to dodgers for cash and a single A player to be named next year!
trade Hurdle to daycare for a newborn