After weeks of trade rumors centering on longtime Blue Jays starter Marcus Stroman, the club found a taker for the right-hander Sunday. Toronto sent him to New York, which many anticipated would happen, but not to the NYC-based team anyone was expecting. Instead of shipping Stroman to the World Series-contending Yankees, the Blue Jays dealt him to a Mets team that’s five games under .500 (50-55), six back of wild-card position and will have to jump over five other NL hopefuls down the stretch to earn a playoff spot.
In all likelihood, Stroman won’t be part of a postseason-bound franchise this season. Nevertheless, the Mets decided it was worthwhile to surrender two prospects from an already below-average farm system for Stroman. The Mets gave up Triple-A left-hander Anthony Kay and Single-A righty Simeon Woods Richardson to land Stroman and his remaining year and a half of team control. Now, the Mets could turn around by Wednesday’s trade deadline and make significant subtractions from the rotation Stroman just joined. They did send lefty Jason Vargas to the Phillies on Monday, but the Mets have two much bigger fish – righties Noah Syndergaard and Zack Wheeler – who have frequented the rumor mill of late.
There shouldn’t be pressure to move Syndergaard, who’s under control through 2021. However, Syndergaard would surely bring back more in a trade than Stroman, enabling the Mets to somewhat reload their farm after taking more pieces from it Sunday. Likewise, it’s not a must for the Mets to wave goodbye to Wheeler. Although the 29-year-old’s a pending free agent, the Mets could keep him and try to work out an extension – which has at least come up as a possibility. Alternatively, the team could retain Wheeler through the season and issue him a qualifying offer if it’s dissatisfied with the trade offers that come in this week.
For now, the top of the Mets’ 2020 rotation looks like this: Jacob deGrom, Syndergaard, Stroman. On paper, that would be one of the game’s most formidable trios, but we may never see them in action together.
Unlike the Mets, the Blue Jays aren’t aiming to contend in 2020, which is a major reason why they traded Stroman. Expectations were Stroman would fetch at least one ballyhooed top 100 prospect in a trade, but that didn’t end up happening.
In Kay, the Blue Jays picked up a near-to-the-majors 24-year-old whom Baseball America (subscription required) ranked as the Mets’ fourth-best prospect prior to the trade. The Mets chose Kay 31st overall in the 2016 draft, but he dealt with an elbow injury that year and then underwent Tommy John surgery in 2017. As a result, Kay didn’t pitch competitively for the organization until last year. However, with help from a fastball that can reach 96 mph, Kay has quickly ascended since debuting in 2018. He thrived at the Double-A level to begin this season before earning a promotion to the top of the minors. Kay has struggled in his first action at Triple-A, though, having put up a 6.61 ERA/6.22 FIP with 7.47 K/9, 3.16 BB/9 and a 30.2 percent groundball rate in 31 1/3 innings. He is now the Blue Jays’ fifth-ranked prospect in MLB.com’s estimation, which posits that Kay could find his niche as a “mid-rotation-type starter” in the bigs.
Meanwhile, MLB.com places Woods Richardson seventh among Toronto’s prospects. Just 18, a year removed from going in the second round of the draft, Woods Richardson has logged spectacular strikeout and walk numbers (11.14 K/9, 1.95 BB/9) with a 4.25 ERA/2.56 FIP and a 49.3 percent grounder rate in 20 starts and 78 1/3 innings at the Single-A level this season. He possesses “premium stuff and mound demeanor to spare,” according to BA, which rated him sixth among Mets farmhands.
Although they’re not premier prospects at the moment, there is optimism in regards to Kay and Woods Richardson evolving into long-term major leaguers. The Mets opted for the surer bet in Stroman, however, and are now evidently hoping he’ll help them to a playoff berth in 2020 (if not a miraculous run this season). But it’s up for debate whether New York should have traded for Stroman, especially considering the team may now weaken the rotation it just strengthened by parting with Syndergaard and-or Wheeler.
How do you think the two teams made out in this deal? (Poll links for app users)
Rip off
Stroman’s trade value: massively overrated
Before 2019, he’s only really ever had one good season. One. 2017. Why does he deserve a massive haul for 1.5 quality seasons?
I agree same goes for Boyd, why expect a massive haul for 1 good season. If he had a few good seasons like this consistent, then you can pull a gleyber Torres type return
Exactly, people are delusional. Also everyone see how bad the Pirates got ripped off for Archer they assume, since Stroman is better he’s worth more. But if anything the Pirates idiotic Archer deal is going to scare GM’s fro dealing talented young guys. No one want to be the Pirates in that deal.
I agree to an extent, the return was bad but stroman is not that great either
Massive haul?
I think he’s saying that everyone is insisting Stroman should have brought back so much more than he did. Which people overvalued his value big time.
Didn’t exactly bring back a massive haul
F- for making any sense. But if it was any other team, I’d prob say this was a pretty ok trade, not exactly a good one
Eh, it makes plenty of sense, it’s just that on it’s own it’s a move you don’t see very often.
The Mets will now move forward in one of two ways:
a) They got Stroman to either replace Wheeler in 2020 or even to deal Syndergaard and/or Wheeler in a retool move.
b) This was a deal they couldn’t pass up and they feel this strengthens their team in the short and long-term.
In any case, I’d grade it a B; only being somewhat familiar with Anthony Kay and Simeon Woods-Richardson.
The Jays wanted to unload Stroman so bad. Evidently, they were unhappy about Stroman asking for more money so they said, we’ll send him to a team not of his desire. Hey, lets send him to the Mets,….not the Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, or Twins….send him to where he’ll be unhappy!
He’s from Long Island, the Mets were his favorite team growing up. People like you ruin the comment section.
You need to read about the commotion in the Jay’s locker room after the trade, and what his father said about the trade. Yes unhappy about the Mets!
He commented on that report. Unhappy about the process from Blue Jay management and let them know it, not the Mets.
What was he supposed to say?
Unhappy in his home town that he wanted to play for?
Thank you for bringing facts to the conversation.
Yes he is. He wanted to play for the Yankees.
nypost.com/2019/07/29/marcus-stromans-yankees-desi…
Yes unhappy. He also boasted that he “dominates” in the AL. It’s the “only” league to pitch in. And this: “the NL is where pitchers go to hide.” He said this in Spring. And now he’s in the NL… Haha!
really bad return. i’d say ridiculous pick up because it doesn’t fit….at all, but if they could get stroman for a bargain and get a ransom for thor, it’d be pretty admirable. i doubt it comes to fruition, but who the heck knows
Stroman should be worth less to NY since he doesnt fit well with the team defense, but why Tor gave him up for that instead of waiting 4 days to flip him to a contender I cant know.
that’s about how i feel as well
A championship is worth more than any prospect they could realistically get for Thor.
And if they can’t win a championship then why this trade?
Jay’s got fleeced for a couple scrubs
Didn’t read the article?
So what makes you think I didn’t? If you actually think it was an even trade, you’re delusional. Jay’s got nothing for stroman, when they could have gotten much more had they traded him earlier during the off-season
During the off season when he was coming off a sub-par 2018? Brilliant!
Yeah, but the Padres were showing a lot of interest, im positive that anything they would have offered would have been better than that return
Almost makes you wonder, the Padres really wanted stroman during the off-season. With the return Toronto got now, they must be kicking themselves in the butt by now
In a bubble Tor got fleeced unless they know something we dont about those two kids. It certainly seems odd that no contender was willing to match that offer. The Mets will acquire Bum next so they can have every pitching trade chip at SP that isnt back end trash, maybe grab Ray and Grienke too just have an all SP roster, bet Alonso will net them at least one if not 2 SP.
25SP team cause thats what agents trying to fake being a GM do, and yet he still clearly won that trade so that really says something about the Tor FO. Watch them deal Wheeler and Diaz, then nuke Stromans trade value to start the season by putting his ground balling ass in front of that god awful infield. Maybe he can ninja Stroman + Wheeler to NYY for better prospects then he gave up and we will all be shocked at the ingenuity after they re-sign Wheeler this winter.
D. They didn’t give up much but I don’t know how this makes sense for the Mets.
If someone wants to give you a car for 2 toasters, even if you already have a few other cars, it’s probably a good idea to take the deal.
I’d even go buy two toasters.
The problem with this car is it’s on lease for another 1.5 years and you very likely will never get a chance to drive it before you have to turn it back in. Maybe, the 2 toasters aren’t so bad then, especially considering they haven’t been taken out of the box and there is a small chance inside the box is a kick butt TV you really need instead of just a toaster.
If you want a pitcher, the Mets have ’em all. Unless you want Greinke. All the other pitchers are in the pennant race so likely not available. If the Mets want a particular guy if you dont give him then you cant get from another team. No one is available as good as Syndergarrd or even Wheeler
Why is Wheeler being treated like he is some amazing pitcher? He has an ERA close to 5 in the NL.. Give me Ray, Minor over him.
Lots of upset Yankee fans.
Stupid and pointless
D. I can’t help but think had the jays held out they could have got a better return. It’s gonna look worse if Minor brings back a better return because the rangers held out until closer to the deadline.
If the Jays were willing to trade him for peanuts, I can’t believe another pitching needy team couldn’t have made a better offer. Hello, Brewers!
C-grade with the anticipation they will flip him for better prospects. D if Brah doesn’t find a taker.
I think this makes perfect sense if the Mets plan on not selling and making a run at the playoffs. Otherwise not really. For the blue jays, I think they could have potentially done a lot better than the return they got. Hard to believe another team didn’t make a better offer.
If they want to make a run at the playoffs, trading Thor makes no sense.
If they plan on making a playoff run then trading Vargas for a Middle aged AA catcher hitting .190 makes no sense
Trading Vargas to the Phillies probably helps the Mets pick up three games in the standings when Vargas pitches!
ANY team wins the deal by getting Stroman for the price the Mets paid. Ya, Stroman’s a 3rd/borderline 2nd starter….nobody thinks Kay is any better. And the other guy, while he has a nice ceiling (tho many see him as a bullpen guy), does NOT have a solid floor….
You play for the here and now…..a hamburger today is worth 5 times the “promise” of a hamburger tomorrow……The Mets have NO reason to go into any type of “tank”, and it makes no sense to attempt it; there’s too much young talent, and pitching, to waive the white flag. You can argue they’re not getting the right pieces; I’d agree. But the Stroman deal is a slam-dunk no-brainer.
It may very well be the first good move they’ve made…..
What’s the point in making the deal when there are 3 teams in that division alone that are better than them. The deal was stupid I get they didn’t give up any of their top 100 guys but there farm as a whole blows. The Mets should tear it all down and rebuild and it will be a long one with the little talent they have in the minors. They have some young talent in the majors but they aren’t winning now so what makes you think they are going to win next year with that same young talent
Exactly, the Mets are such a mess and delusional.
What do you call the pitcher who comes in after the opener… How about the “late starter”?
sounds kinda morbid.
Let’s grade it when he makes his Mets debut..
The Mets are beyond dumb. I give them both an F. The Jays for getting a weak return. The Mets for being delusional and dealing young guys for a yr and two months. Even though they’re not great prospects, they are a couple of the Mets better very thin prospects, that they’re in no position to lose because they suck regardless. Just dumb. But better then the historically bad Cano/Diaz deal.
Maybe dumb yes but pitching staff allowed your team one runner to second base in nlcs few years back and made your team look pretty dumb as well not to mention 2 championships in the past 60 years not 100
Oh good one man!!! I never heard the 100 years since a Championship joke. Very creative. SMH. The Cubs have done plenty of dumb signings and things over the last couple of years that I’ve called them on too, but at least they have a plan. And PLEASE don’t resort to bringing up who was good before World War 1 in baseball. I can’t think of anything more irrelevant than discussing who was good in 1912 or 1934 or whatever that’s forever ago. Come one man….
Ehhh, Stroman is a slightly above average MLB starter. And a free agent in 2021. Not sure about the Kay kid. Woods-Richardson hit 99 mph in the gulf coast league last year a couple months out of high school. I’ve watched him pitch. He has the body and the tools. But prospects are prospects. Good move by both teams. Mets will go nowhere with Stroman because they are the Mets.. Blue Jays have the making of “maybe we will be good in a couple years” plan.
Jays got fleeced considering Stroman was the best available option on the market!
Not true, if you wanted to win the WS, then madbum was/is the best option.
Really? Since when is Madbum avail?
Can we stop acting like we know that present day MadBum will be just as good in the playoffs now as he was 5 years ago? He is still a good pitcher, but to act like he is a present day postseason ace because of what he did 5 years and an injury ago is questionable at best.
Stroman is a solid regular season starter, but in the playoffs he’s a very fringe starter when everyone’s rotation gets cut down. Not a difference maker, and allows to much contact. Nobody was every going to pay much for a yr and couple months of that.
Stroman is far better then slightly above average. He is a heavy ground ball pitcher and gives up very low rates of home runs. If he is on the right defensive team his numbers would be very good. The advanced metrics don’t give a lot of credence to ground ball pitchers. Now he did go to the Mets and they don’t exactly have great infield defense but him on the right team with a good defense and he would shine.
The Mets have the worse D in the league, and the worst decision makers in the league running that train wreck.
Bruin your exactly right! Put him on Oakland team with that D he’d have a era under 2!
I went with F for Mets and A for Jays. The return for Stroman does seem kinda light and I do feel like someone should have beaten it but the Jays were never going to make the playoffs during Stroman’s remaining control years and the offers for Stroman weren’t going to get any better in the offseason when the acquiring team can’t use him in the 2019 playoffs so they had to trade him. So unless the reports about them spurning better offers from the Yankees or Braves are true, they played this as well as they could have.
The Mets also aren’t going to contend during Stroman’s remaining control years so they just gave up Kay and Richardson for basically nothing.
Mets defense is bad. Stroman is a groundball pitcher. Trade is a head scratcher at best.
Light package for Toronto, anyway, I’m a little surprised it’s so dead. I don’t think these GMs are taking this hard deadline seriously. Every contender has needs, I don’t see how these deals all get done in 36 hours.
Well, these contenders who need pitching should of ponied up. Simple as that!
Part of the Mets’ motivation for the trade was keeping him from the hated Yanks. So they get an A for that.
Oh yeah that’s gonna look real good for the Mets when the Yankees sign him away from them in a year and a half.
Let’s see how much of a grade they get for keeping the Yankees away from the sky if and when the Yankees are in the World Series this year
That’s a completely idiotic way for a team a team to be ran, to block a player from a team in a whole other league. Sooo Mets.
This was such a strange deal. I don’t know if the Mets were all that interested in a trade, hut the cost was so incredibly small that they had to do it. Stroman will probably fetch a larger price in the offseason with less control.
This is an easy F for the Blue Jays. It’s one of the weakest returns we have ever seen for a top flight SP at the deadline, let alone one with additional control. We haven’t seen a trade this decade where a pitcher that good hasn’t gotten either a top 100 prospect or productive major leaguer.
“Stroman will probably fetch a larger price in the offseason with less control.”
How? If teams weren’t going to give up more for Stroman when they would get him for the 2019 postseason, why would they do it when they don’t? You might have a case if this were a down year for Stroman but it isn’t.
Kay is just outside the top 100 and SWR is well on his way to being inside of it before he’s 20. This narrative of “they didn’t get a top 100 prospect!! AMAGAD!!!” is simplistic and trite. It’s a light deal more because they should’ve gotten a decent third piece, not because Kay was ranked #125 instead of #95.
Jays lost for sure not enough value considering all the teams interested ..Mets can win this in two ways..keeping all the pitchers and Setting up an impressive rotation for next year or flip them all admit time to start over and in one swoop rebuild a weak farm system.. but honestly I’m betting they do the middle,trade a couple of these guys and just move laterally, be right in the same place next year.
@justme
The Mets farm isn’t weak. It’s just deeper at lower minor league levels. Before the trade they had five 55, and nine 50 grade prospects, and a bunch of players who could move up to that level.
Now they have four and eight.
The Mets farm system sucks and it just got weaker because of pure stupidity like the Cano deal.
Though I’m not enamored with losing SWR, I love the Stroman acquisition, Really good fit for the Mets who will thrive off his energy and competitive fire as Stroman will playing for his hometown Mets, in the best city in the world, under the spotlight he seeks.
Something that doesn’t get mentioned enough in these trades with one plus year of control left is the consolation of the draft pick after the inevitable QO. And even if they don’t want to go that route and aren’t competitive next season, they should still get a comparable return for him at next year’s deadline, assuming all doesn’t go to hell for him in NY.
Stroman could sign extension.
If I was wheeler I ain’t signing a extension with that dumpster fire
Well, joester12, you’re not Wheeler – and thank goodness.
Say what you want about Kay and Richardson. This trade is a loss for the Mets unless they make a deep playoff run this year or next.
Grade C. Mets got Stroman on a good deal, but Stroman and his groundball ways is not the right pitcher for the Mets.
Stroman’s competitive fire and love of spotlight, is great fit, I’m not worried about the defense.
A for Mets
C for Jays
Blue Jays just wanted to screw Stoman over but dealing him to a non contenders. He wanted NY so they traded him to the Mets and got the last laugh.
That is a def. possibility!
I am disappointed at the return that the Jays got for Stroman. I was expecting something like the Archer haul. The two prospects are good, one has an elite arm but they are years away.
Maybe that is the point. Atkins messed up with trading Pillar and Happ for lousy return and faired poorly in the deals involving Jesse Chavez, Melvin Upton Jr, Mike Bolsinger, Rob Refsynder, Pannone, Solarte, etc etc.
With taking players so far down in the system or not close to being ready, politically it assures that he can’t fail for at least 2 more years on this deal. Job security.
Yeesh. Please don’t renew Atkins for next year.
That’s not exactly true Jimmer Anthony Kay is in AAA so he is not years away.
Toronto is looking for future arms they are not going to compete for the division next year probably going to be a couple of years away. They have some elite hitting prospects now they are just adding arms to see what happens. Funny thing about arms some fizzle some get injured and a very select become legitimate starting arms in the big leagues. Toronto is just trying to add to there arm prospect pool and we have no real idea maybe this was the beat offer. All teams seem to be hugging prospects so close nowadays. Maybe this was the best offer maybe the Blue Jays went to the other teams and said this is what the Mets are offering what can you offer and nothing was better so they went with Toronto. The fact is they got two intriguing arms to add to what they already have. There offense is going to be elite soon now they are adding arms and seeing what happens.
Archer and Stroman was never a comparable. Stroman has one year left while Archer is on a very team friendly deal to 2023. As well, prior to the deal with the Pirates, Archer was much better than Stroman.
So please explain why the Jays should of received the same type of package the Pirates gave up?
Archer is not nearly as good a pitcher as Stroman and has been for a while.
Stroman > Archer
“and faired poorly in the deals involving Jesse Chavez, Melvin Upton Jr, Mike Bolsinger, Rob Refsynder, Pannone, Solarte, etc etc.”
Where do you perform your stand-up sets? That’s some funny stuff there.
Young controllable pitching is hard to come by. I think it’s good that it is the Jays focus. I’m sure the Jays did there due diligence with best offers. If other teams are thinking they could have offered more, it’s there loss for not doing there due diligence.
So the 50-55 Mets fans are happy they were able to keep Stroman away from the 67-38 Yankees? Seems to me like their fans or as idiotic as the people that run their franchise. Here is the hard facts even with Stroman they will be sitting in October watching the playoffs while the Yankees even if they don’t get a starting pitcher by Wednesday are still considered one of the odds on favorite to get into the World Series.
If the Yankees would of offered Garcia I’m sure that Stroman would be a Yankee now but my guess is they didn’t. Toronto wants young controllable arms and for the Yankees that means Garcia. They didn’t offer him so they must look elsewhere besides Stroman.
That moment when BVH calls the Astros and offers Thor and Stroman for their top 3 prospects and tickets to the WS so he can see how a team should operate and look.
Just a strange trade. The Mets did well, but it doesn’t make sense if they’re going to follow it with a Syndergaard trade. Hard to believe this was the best the Blue Jays could do.
Jay’s got hosed. Mets should trade stro as he needs good defense behind him bc he’s a ground ball pitcher.
Jays didn`t get hosed. They got what they wanted.
I beleive they could have had more, but Shapiro and Atkins aren`t interested in winning at the MLB level. They are interested in building a farm system, being competative, job security for themselves and making money for Rogers.
The mets front office makes no sense on which direction theyre going
Longtime reader first time ranter here. Stroman had to go. He was never okay with the inevitable re-build. I’m not writing this to disrespect Stroman in the slightest because I loved watching him pitch. I loved seeing his passion and fire to compete on the mound. He was a great representative of Toronto and all of Canada. But as this team had shown signs of decaying and the selling started, he was never on board with the plan. Whether he was justified or not, his open criticism of the front office became toxic which is why they had to ship him out. If I am running Baseball Ops, I do not want a player disrespecting me, the boss, in front of the media. That stuff wouldn’t fly in most work places so why should it here.
Losing Stroman is lousy but I respect what the front office is doing here. I know they get dumped on a lot but when I watch the Jays now, I’m starting to see their vision come to fruition. The debut of Bo Bichette was pretty cool to watch last night. Seeing Bo, Vlad, Cavan and Danny all out there on the diamond having come up together is fun to watch. It’s their clubhouse now so it’s time to start building around them.
Jays didn`t get hosed. They got what they wanted.
I believe they could have had more, but Shapiro and Atkins aren`t interested in winning at the MLB level. They are interested in building a farm system, being competative, job security for themselves and making money for Rogers.
Rogers has to be blamed too. They hired Shapiro to do what they wanted.
I don’t understand the narrative on here that Shapiro and Atkins don’t want to win. They have said from day 1 that they want to build a sustainable winner. They had to delay that plan for two years when they had a good but aging core. It’s really only been this season since they have been fully in re-build mode. The first wave of prospects that they groomed are already here and showing what they can do. Shapiro and Atkins plan is not based around emotion, it is methodical and calculated.
To be honest, this re-build looks like it has the potential to be much shorter than the Cubs and Astros re-build years. I don’t see this team having multiple 100+ loss seasons coming. This season for sure, maybe next year. But with the amount of upper level talent coming there is no way this team is going to stay bad for long.
I fully think that Shapiro and Atkins want to win badly. They have the vision and foresight to win for the long term. That’s why they were hired. They have a plan and are not going to get sidetracked by making emotional or reactionary moves. They are building not just a winning team, they are building a world series contender.
Shapiro has never won anything including during his 12 years as an exec in Cleveland. He can’t win.
Look at Dombrowski and Cashman, they usually have 2 down years and then they trade the farm or sign big money free agents and they are ready to win again.
I and other baseball types called the Jays to start the tear down and rebuild at the end of 2016. They officially waited until 2018. The Jays are already 2 years behind. They are at least 3 years away from having a winning team. I don’t care about the longterm competative thing and neither does Cashman or Dombrowski. It is about winning now.