It was reported just days ago that the Giants were still planning to sell despite a run of success that has yet to abate. That’s not quite how president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi characterized things, though he certainly left the door wide open to dealing.
While the postseason picture remains about the same now — the Giants don’t have a prayer in the division but are up to one game under .500 and 2.5 games out of Wild Card position — there are increasing indications that the San Francisco organization may seriously consider holding onto its best trade chips. At the very least, it seems the club is going to give its roster as much time as possible to position itself.
There seems to be a bit of a growing sense around the game that the Giants may well hold off on a sell-off. A rival exec says as much to MLB Network’s Jon Heyman (Twitter link), while Andy Martino of SNY.tv reports that top Giants trade candidates Will Smith and Madison Bumgarner simply aren’t available at this point in time. Presumably, the same holds true for all or most of the team’s many other trade candidates, no shortage of whom featured on MLBTR’s latest ranking.
If that’s the case, it seems a sensible initial move for a front office group that is in its first season at the helm. It would be exceedingly difficult to justify sell-side decisions at this immediate juncture when it’s still not known exactly how the situation will look at the deadline. Aggressive, early action is worth considering when you’re certain of the approach, but there’s a reason teams have typically waited until just before the deadline (and even beyond, back when August trades were allowed under certain circumstances) to make moves that can’t be taken back.
Hitting the pause button doesn’t necessarily mean the Giants won’t end up operating on the sell side. There are many arguments in favor of such an approach, as we touched upon in presenting our recent poll on the Giants’ deadline approach. The responses to the poll were interesting: about three of four MLBTR readers urged the Giants to sell. Less than one in ten advocated a buying approach, with most of the optimists preferring the team mostly stand pat.
It’s interesting to wonder whether some kind of blended approach could be pursued if the club has positioned itself in or near Wild Card position by the end of the month. One possibility would be to hang onto Bumgarner, a rightful legend of the organization, with the idea of issuing him a qualifying offer at season’s end (or even extending him). It’s far from clear that the organization will recoup truly significant prospects for the lefty, with nagging questions about just how good a pitcher he really is at this stage of his career and only months of team control remaining. Hanging onto him might represent a justifiable middle ground. Meanwhile, the team could explore deals in which it would recoup youthful talent at or near the majors for some of its veteran hurlers (this trade might be something of a model). The Giants could even contemplate some additions of controllable talent if they see good value and a chance to fill an anticipated need.
For understandable reasons, Bumgarner continues to draw much of the attention. The undeniable allure of his historically exceptional postseason work is tough to ignore or write off. Thirty on August 1st, Bumgarner probably will never return to his peak levels of performance. But it’s also important to note that he has turned things up a notch as the season has gone along. He’s currently sitting at over 92 mph with his average heater and carries a 12.0% swinging-strike rate that’s second-highest in his career. Statcast does suggest some regression could be in store based upon the volume of hard contact Bumgarner has surrendered, but ERA estimators generally see him as a quality mid-rotation starter (3.69 FIP, 3.96 xFIP, 4.01 SIERA).
It’s no surprise that plenty of clear contenders are contemplating a move for Bumgarner. There has been a steady stream of chatter on him for some time. There are a few recent market hints, though none seem particularly strong. The Twins and (less likely) Red Sox may have been eyeing MadBum when they scouted his outing last night, Jon Morosi of MLB.com suggests (Twitter links), though it’s awfully difficult to know what the presence of a scout means when the contest in question features so many possible trade candidates. The Yankees are primarily looking elsewhere but could still enter the picture, Martino suggests.
As for Bumgarner himself, his feelings probably aren’t surprising. Following a gutsy nine-inning performance last night, the surly southpaw told reporters including Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area that his team is “making a push” for the postseason. Do the trade rumors bother MadBum? “I don’t give a …” well, you know. He continued: “I’m here to win games for this team, and that’s what we’re doing.”
Bryzzo2016
This seems odd. To roll the dice on your future in the hopes that you MIGHT get the chance to play in a wild card game.
Dustin Michels
Teams needing a high leverage Lefty out of the bullpen are hurt the most if SF holds. WSmith replacement on the market is hard to find where as a MadBum market is easier to maneuver imo.
ABStract
It wouldn’t surprise me if they held onto Bum and traded some relief for a close to the majors prospect or two
They’re still in a really tough spot though
deweybelongsinthehall
Depends on the offer. If not overwhelmed, why not give him his choice of the qualifying offer or
deweybelongsinthehall
Didn’t mean to hit POST. Meant to say or a two or three year deal that is front loaded with a then no trade so that it become more team friendly as he ages. Upon consideration, while this a business, he doesn’t deserve to be saddled with the QO. What he wants provided it’s financially reasonable should be honored. Hopefully he retires a lifetime Giant.
Bennybosox
They won’t do that. They’re not good enough to play both sides of the market. They’re either buyers or sellers. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to hang onto MadBum and deal Smith (or Dyson or anyone else). Especially in the case of MadBum and Smith- both are FA’s after the year and the trade market is gonna net them some pretty nice pieces for guys that could either be gone at the end of the season or re-signed after being dealt at the deadline
jpm9q3
Of course it makes sense. 18 teams need Smith and he’s cheap af. He’d bring back a nice haul. Plus, he was never a hero in SF and has no champiohship rings. He might actually accept a QO if they gave him one
Bumgarner is a different story. No trade list. A bunch of teams trying to lowball. Franchise icon. Would not accept a QO, so they would get a comp pick for him if he signs elsewhere. And Smith is more easily replaceable.
Show Me Your Tatis
Nope. They need to pick a direction and stick to it. That means trading either both of Bumgarner and Smith or neither. Not just Smith. Nothing they could get for Smith would help them in the postseason more than Smith.
jpm9q3
I dunno. Smith would bring back a good return because the league is all about bullpens now.
SalaryCapMyth
Nobody is low balling Bumgarner. A middle rotation arm for two months is simply not as valuable as you think.
Ronin6
Different game today, SF gets a decent offer they should jump on it vs wake longer for a QO / Pick to develop.
Ronin6
It is for a Contender short on SP, they never know when they will be in the same spot again. I can see Braves trading and resigning
Show Me Your Tatis
@jpm9q3 it doesn’t matter. Nothing they could get for Smith would help their postseason chances more than Smith. They can’t trade him if they are trying to win.
And if you don’t think they can contend they need to trade Bumgarner as well. Someone will give them something better than the QO comp pick.
Either both of Bumgarner and Smith are gone or neither. Not just Smith. Deal with it.
mulewhipper
Not Good enough?? what makes you think that the GM is not smart?
Seemed to be great with the A’s and the Dodgers recently.
mulewhipper
MIddle rotation arm?? Seriously, wow.
petefrompp
This is MLB Trader RUMORS…… but you can’t say they have to trade MadBum – read all of the stories on this website and others and it seems like other teams dont really value MadBum that highly. The Giants are better off not trading him if the return is just crap( ie not a significant prospect haul) – you dont trade a franchise Icon for crap. A trade takes two sides that have to agree on some sort of value – simply put they Giants may value MadBum too highly and other team too lowly. The market will ether correct or it won’t.
I’m a Giants fan so I personally think any team that really wants to excel in the post season NEEDS MadBum. I understand metrics and stats but they still can’t capture character and competitiveness – this guy is a beast that doesn’t quit- what he could do for a team is more than pitch every 5th outing.
I could easily see MadBum and Bochy reunited in SD next year and surprising everyone with a devastating run through the playoffs – there is magic in those two guys.
Pickle_Britches
Also madbum is not going to accept a trade for some bum, he will want to be traded for a high caliber player, he knows what kind of player he is and what he’s worth. So, He won’t just be swapped for some jamoke..
petrie000
Then he’s kind of a jerk for putting his pride ahead of his current team…
Dodgethis
Your absolutist opinions are ad funny as they are false. Keep applying your cookie cutter logic to the giants and we will continue to enjoy you being wrong.
Pickle_Britches
No because he would want a player to help the team win and have a bright future in San Francisco like he has. I still think he signs back with the Giants in off season if he gets traded.
Show Me Your Tatis
@petefrompp if they trade Smith it means their season is over so they indeed DO have to trade Bumgarner. Unless no one offers them anything better than the draft pick from the QO but I have a hard time imagining that happening.
Show Me Your Tatis
@Pickle_Britches Bumgarner doesn’t care at all who he gets traded for. The NTC is only there so he can choose who he plays out the end of this season for, rather than just being forced to go to whoever offers SF the best prospects.
Ronin6
Bum wants another WS and that is not happening in SF for a few years
Ronin6
He’ll take money and a shot at a WS, it’s a business like it or not
Show Me Your Tatis
Nope. If they trade relievers Bum is gone.
petrie000
Not enough in SF, apparently. The cold logic of reality means nothing to them…
Pike
we also run the risk of doing a QO and having nobody sign Madbum until after the draft…
bencole
Yes. #3 SP mulewhipper
bencole
Yeah he doesn’t care who he’s traded for. Just about his situation. That’s nonsense
jpm9q3
Nah. Smith can be replaced (at least at maybe 75-80%) by players on the roster. The Giants have no one that can give them half of what MadBum gives them. You take a good deal for Smith because the dropoff is not as bad. So you improve your team for the future while not hurting your team for the present that much. Simple.
Ronin6
Getting Prospects for Bum is better for the Team than a Qualifying Offer pick,SF is not going to over pay him as a feel good for a few fans. More Fans care about sustainable winning vs keep Bum for his past accomplishments. Winning is everything
Show Me Your Tatis
The Giants have no one that can replace Smith. If you are serious about contending you don’t allow for ANY dropoff on your roster. Having prospects is nice, but you take a championship over those any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Ronin6
Did your Crystal Ball predict that Dickerson, Yaz, Beede, Solano would play this well?
Show Me Your Tatis
Only trolls use “crystal ball” as an argument. And I could just ask easily as you if your crystal ball predicted the prospects they could get for Smith would turn into All Stars.
Ronin6
Sabean Way of thinking, and we would spend another 3/4 years getting older and slower. More a Retirement Home than Baseball team.
malbuff
Does this team really look like that to you now? And what WAS the name of the GM whose teams won 3 WS while getting progressively older with each championship?
Ronin6
Z is doing everything S should have been doing after 15, maybe it’s Mgmt fault because they wanted to cash in but just like Sabes gets credit for 3 in 5 he also has to accept responsibility for 2.5 – 3 of the worst years in SF history.
Sabes was Christmas Past, Z is Christmas Future.
malbuff
Evans was making the decisions after 2015.
Ronin6
Then Sabes deserves no credit for 3 in 5 if he doesn’t also get credit for the Dark Years leading up to Z.
malbuff
He wasn’t the GM in those years. He was GM from 1996-2014.. Blaming him for Evans’ GM record (2015-2018) is like blaming Baer and the ownership– pointless and wrong on the facts.
stephaniebpetagno
You could reframe that and ask why roll the dice on a legitimate postseason chance this year in the hopes that you’ll get value for money and big league improvement somewhere down the line.
stephaniebpetagno
You could reframe that and ask why roll the dice on a legitimate postseason chance this year in the hopes that you’ll get value for money and big league improvement somewhere down the line.
malbuff
Whom do you think they’ll get for him? if not a bonafide first-rounder, then how is holding on to him “rolling the dice on your future?” Would you give up a first-rounder for Bumgarner?
Ronin6
You answered your own question but yes you could get a former #1 who hasn’t panned out as fast as expected.
twinsfan368
The best deal that Zaidi could make is obviously with the twins because of their farm system
ABStract
Not that I disagree, but you may be biased
🙂
ohyeadam
Twins not being on his limited no trade clause would make a deal easier for the front office.
Basebal101
Sure, because obviously they are the on team w any decent prospects what so ever.
Ronin6
And Twins are not on the No Trade list…….I believe
statman
Middle of rotation pitcher, Todd? You are way out of touch if that’s how you think most GM’s think about him. I’m quite sure most view him as the guy they’d want on the mound in a winner take all game over practically anyone.
Giantgirl
Agreed Todd! Statman has a good point!
RootedInOakland
If u replace the “You are” with “I am” this comment makes sense
Giantgirl
Yep…if you are an A’s fan it just might!
VTGiant
Or Dodger$ fam
Central Valley
Totally agree.
CursedRangers
No doubt, he has been a beast of a pitcher over his career – and especially during the postseason. But think about the true contenders. Do you think the Astros would want him in a winner take all game, over Cole & Verlander? Not saying he would be a bad option, but he is clearly behind both of these pitchers. Same with the many of the other contenders. So I think Todd is spot on, for the legit contenders he would be a 3rd option. And having him as a third option would be a huge difference maker come the post season.
deweybelongsinthehall
Exception being the Yankees who if they had other contenders’ starting staff might have a fifteen game lead. Amazing how they’ve played with their injuries.
VTGiant
His e.r.a. over last 5 is 1.96. Can you imagine a staff in the post season with Bumgarner AND Verlander? That’s strong stuff.
bencole
Yeah it’s kinda easy. Because it’s 5 games. And Bum isn’t that good anymore. Nowhere near the class of Verlander or Cole.
malbuff
He’d be #1 on the Yankees.
Jacksongiant
Stinky statman
Sleeper
“ERA estimators generally see him as a quality mid-rotation starter”
I don’t really think that take is all that unreasonable, he provided the numbers to give context of that take. You can want the guy on the mound in the big spot based on track record, and feel good enough about what he’s doing right now to trust that track record, while still acknowledging he’s taken a bit of a step back. It’s not like saying a quality mid rotation starter is garbage, or it wouldn’t be in demand, most contenders would still love to have a guy like that to slot into their rotation down the stretch.
thetruth 2
I’m sure a starter with mid rotation peripherals is who you want in a crucial game not an ace.
Sleeper
Think the point I was getting at might have been lost here.. maybe my use of the word “want”when talking about the big spot was misleading. Give me the current ace in that spot any time, track record or not. But I also don’t think a team would feel all that bad if they had to trust him in a big spot. He’s still been pretty good, and pretty good has value.
nbgiant25
thetruth
Exactly! You want Kershaw up in that spot, because he’s always going to get the job done… Oh, wait…
Basebal101
@ statman. LMAO! You must be Giants fan to make such an absurd statement. A once great P, he’s a #3 at best, on a good day at this point.
Pickle_Britches
He’s only a ace on the Giants, he’s prob the best #3 in the league.
jpm9q3
The thing with MadBum is he’s as good a big game pitcher as there is. So, sure, taking his stats over 3 seasons for a mediocre to bad team (most of the time he was recovering from injury) they will look pedestrian. But look at what he does when his team needs him the most (last night, for example) and he hardly ever delivers with less than dominance.
Word is he doesn’t watch video or do much preparation for most of his starts in the regular season, but he buckles down and takes his preparation to the next level for the playoffs, and his production goes to the next level.
Take for example last night. His team needed that win and he goes out and give em 9 innings of 1 run ball. now you fools are really saying he’s a No. 3?! Psssh.
jpm9q3
Look at homeboy’s game logs. In his last 11 starts, he’s given up more than 3 earnies exactly once. Since June 25th when this streak started by Giants moving Belt to leadoff, he’s given up 5 earn runs in 29 innings. GTFO with this third-starter talk.
jpm9q3
Is he an ace like Sale, Verlander, Degrom, Syndergaard, Scherzer, etc.? No. But he’s a lot better than the 90th best SP in the league, fellas. C’mon now.
bencole
This suggests an even balance between the #3 on a good team and a bad team. He’s a #3 on a playoff contender. That doesn’t mean he’s 90th in the league. He’s probably not top 30 either.
jpm9q3
He’s a number 3 on the Astros, the Dodgers, and maybe the Indians. So he’ a No. 3 on 3 winning teams.
douglasb
Statman, the last 3 seasons he is 15-23 with a 3.88 FIP and 119 ERA+. That’s a good pitcher on a bad team, but hardly an ace.
He’s a solid #3 on a contender.
bencole
Mad Bum is nothing near the pitcher he was during those World Series runs several years ago. He’s a number 3 now, and a premium won’t be added because he’s a Giants icon. And the Giants won’t be able to extend him without paying such a premium. Mad Bum will likely be traded for a non-Top 75 prospect and a couple of organizational 20-30 prospects at most. They have to trade him or get nothing and be sentimental
ric7744
He was injured and is finally healthy, when motivated he can pitch with anyone in baseball. I wouldn’t bet against him in any important game. He knows when he has to step it up and rises to the occasion. He is a lot more than a number 3 and is only 29, I can see him actually getting better again over the next couple years. Any team would be super lucky to have him on their team.
bencole
And you buy hoping he does without paying for that guy. And healthy, now that he finally is, his numbers suggest he’s a #3. Plus as you’ve stated he has significant injury risk
Show Me Your Tatis
Bumgarner has zero injury risk. How many days in his Major league career has he spent on the DL/IL with a chronic issue?
bencole
Uh… he hasn’t made more than 21 starts since 2016. Chronic or not with all those innings and the declining performance/stuff there is injury risk… all pitchers have injury risk, and the recent history makes it worse… plus that shoulder know one really knows about
Show Me Your Tatis
Let me rephrase. Bumgarner has no more injury risk than any other pitcher. He is as durable a pitcher as they come.
21 starts is an arbitrary number, but he will beat it this year.
bencole
Starters who are uninjured make 33 starts a year. He’s missed 35% of his starts the last two seasons. That’s a lot.
Show Me Your Tatis
Bumgarner has made at least 31 starts in every full season of his career except 2017 and 2018 and is on pace for 34 this year.
A pair of freak injuries don’t make a guy “injury prone.” Deal with it.
petrie000
You’d be wrong about what most GMs think. They’re an unemotional lot as a rule, and won’t pay extra for the warm and fuzzies his name gives Giants fans
They’re only paying for his regular season, and those stats are decidedly mid-rotation as of late. They won’t get a refund if he doesn’t get them into the playoffs, so they won’t pay extra for his reputation
bencole
Yup exactly
nbgiant25
GMs aren’t going after Bumgarner for his regular season. They know that they’ll get a good starter who competes, but they are buying for the postseason. To deny that is nonsense. He’s built to pitch into October/November in a way few other pitchers are.
bencole
Yeah he doesn’t have that kind of stuff anymore. You know he probably won’t melt down but that’s it, he didn’t pitch then with the quality of stuff he has now. His past postseason performance will NOT increase his value. It’s that simple. I can’t understand why people keep saying this.
nbgiant25
How do you know? His velocity has been solid, and he’s been pitching like an ace over the last 10 or so starts.
You can put your head in the sand, but teams have no choice but to consider his effectiveness in the postseason. It’s that simple. You can’t understand why people keep saying it, because you don’t understand that it’s what drives the trade deadline. If it had nothing to do with it, GMS would just go get a stat sheet and aim for the cheapest “equivalent” based on the stats. That doesn’t happen, because there’s more to the game than that. You don’t get it. That’s fine. Some of us do.
mulewhipper
Nobody does…look accross the board at SP and you will see all ERA and other older type stats creeping up because of the juiced ball these days.
Madbum is and ace…always has been always will be.
bencole
No they don’t, it’s not really an intangible that someone just has, past not melting down under pressure. I’m not suggesting just it should raise the price, I’m suggesting that it actually won’t if and when he’s traded. That almost no one places significant value on his World Series performance from several years ago.
bencole
And no Mule Whipper, that’s an ignorant statement. He is roughly a number 3, based upon his performance, and has been the last couple years. Saying he always will be is like suggesting a team pay an ace price for current day CC Sabathia. He’s only an ace based on his performance. And he’s unlikely to bring back a single top 75 prospect
petrie000
To assert anybody is trading for his post season resume, when they don’t even have a guarantee of getting into the post season in the first place, is frankly blind homer nonsense…
Pickle_Britches
@petitefeet000 Man the more you yap, the more I believe you don’t no much about baseball. Sit in the corner and hush please. Thanks bub
Show Me Your Tatis
He “no’s” more about baseball than you “no.”
petrie000
I’m sorry if you don’t like what you hear when you leave the echo chamber
Reality totally isn’t sorry, though. It doesn’t care what you wish was true, only what is true.
Let the adults talk about current baseball, you can go wax poetic about the glory days long past on the Giants fan boards.
petrie000
Your opinion of me would hurt if there was any reason to think your opinions had any value
So far all you’ve provided in terms of ‘baseball knowledge’ is weak insults and a lot of transparent denial
I know being stuck with a rebuilding team is a bitter pill to swallow, but it gets easier once you just accept it
Pickle_Britches
@petitefeet000 idk what makes you so dumb but, it really works
petrie000
You’d be more convincing if you put some effort into your put downs. Grade school level material doesn’t work outside grade school
But something tells me you’re not a fan of effort.,,
Pickle_Britches
You’re just full of useless information bud
petrie000
Again, that would be more effective if you’d stop casting so much doubt on whether or not you’d know useful information if it bopped you over the head while wearing a name tag and screamed ‘hey dummy, over here!’ through a loud speaker…
Insults and denial is still the extend of your contributions
malbuff
Why are they trading for him in the first place, then?
mulewhipper
Bencole…so now he is “roughly” a #3…lol, hedge much. Who would you consider an ace at the moment?
Scherzer?
Stats: 115 w, 90 l, 3.08 era, 274 gs, 1771 ip, 1725 so, 1.11 whip
Stats: 168 w, 87 l, 3.16 era, 348 gs, 2247 ip, 2630 so, 1.09 whip
Peoplearestupid
Damn there are some clueless folks on here. Mid rotation starter?
For the entire year, amongst starters MadBum is 23rd in FIP in all of baseball. He happens to be nearly 1/2 a run better than Verlander in what most now regard as a a better stat than ERA.
Oh and in his last five starts his FIP is -1.33, His WHIP is .933, K/9 is 10.2 and K/BB is 6.8… in other words he’s rounding into completely dominant MadBum. He’s 29. His Velocity is in line with what it was in 2014 (though admittedly down from 2010-12 levels.)
The data suggests that 2019 MadBum is at worst a low end number one and at best starting to once again perform as one of the elite players in the game.
Keep in mind that the Motorcycle injury was a fairly horrific one and it stands to reason that it took him a couple years to make it all the way back.
Lastly, he’s probably the most clutch pitcher in the history of the sport. In October the ball doesn’t carry the same way, pitching to contact becomes important and his cutter becomes a dominant weapon in that regard. And if you don’t believe in “clutch” then I’d argue that you simply didn’t play baseball at a very high level. Oh and he absolutely instills a sense of belief in the clubhouse AND if you’re in the NL you get a weapon as a batter in the 9 spot.
All that being said it’s going to take a ton to get him unless the Giants fade hard in the next ten days. 2 top 5 prospects and some young lottery tickets is probably a starting point.
Jacksongiant
Why’d you report me stinky statman??
Ronin6
Bum is the Best Big Game SP availability
bencole
Was. 5 seasons ago.
Pickle_Britches
How do you know he’s not now? The last time he was in the playoffs, yes he was. I’m sure he would do just fine now as he did few yrs back.
bencole
That would be like assuming Jack Nicklaus is still the best golfer in majors… he hasn’t done it in years, why would you assume he’s still that good without evidence? What reason do we have to not believe it? Back then he was a dominant regular season starter… now he’s a number 3. And postseason starts are not in a vacuum… they’re just a smaller sample size of the same thing. Once you are at the point where you don’t melt down under the pressure, there’s not really such a thing as a big game pitcher. James Shields was a great example of a guy who was “Big Game James” early in his career but when his stuff deteriorated he wasn’t a big game guy anymore.
Look, bottom line is, no one is paying anything extra for his performance in the playoffs many years ago, outside of having enough of a sample size that he’s not a choke. That performance that long ago matched his regular season performance roughly… he doesn’t have that anymore. There’s no extra premium because of that… not even a penny in the dollar. I’m not just saying that teams shouldn’t… I saying that they in fact actually won’t.
bencole
*on the dollar
malbuff
3 seasons ago.
steelerbravenation
There is really no reason to sell. They obviously can’t buy either but if they keep MadBum they can always get a draft pick for him if they can’t resign him which I believe is a good possibility. All the other bullpen pieces are all signed thru next year so they can put off selling them off til the offseason.
In my opinion a Wil Smith would be able to pull some help this year in a trade. I can see him being moved for a cost controlled OF, a bullpen piece and a prospect not yet up.
As bad as the NL is there is no need to sell everything off in Bochy’s last year.
Show Me Your Tatis
If Smith goes, Bumgarner goes too. Simple as that.
The trade return they can get for Bumgarner will 100% be better than the draft pick and nothing says they can’t bring him back in the offseason after trading him if that is what they want to do. If Bumgarner likes SF as much as Giants fans say it should be easy to bring him back.
bencole
This should be logical Tatis, but I’m not sure it’s true. Ownership has to sell to their fans that they traded him for the 120th ranked prospect in baseball, that that’s all they got. There’s a real chance they could hold stupidly.
Show Me Your Tatis
Losing him for nothing but a sandwich pick between rounds 2 and 3 (where the QO pick falls) would make them look even worse.
bencole
I personally agree with you Tatis… but emotional homer fans… I dunno
Show Me Your Tatis
The key detail you seem to be missing is who is in charge of that decision. The answer to that is Farhan. You can expect him to make the most objective, non-sentimental decision possible given the situation the Giants are in at the deadline.
BravesFan80
Even if by some miracle they make it to the wild card game, they don’t seem to have the staff necessary to win a championship. It’ll be an interesting deadline.
VTGiant
Johnny Cueto is back in September. He will probably push #4 or #5 back to Triple A.
adiffmike
Don’t forgt they’d potentially have Cueto back for a post season run.
MadBum, Cueto, Samardzija, + 1 (Beede or Anderson, heck even Holland or Pomeranz if one of those two gets hot) and maybe the best bullpen in baseball could be something to work with.
malbuff
That was the case in 2014 too. The postseason is a crapshoot. Right now they can beat anybody. Two weeks from now they could be back in the tank, But IF they get to the WC playing like they have, sure they can win it all.
terry g
It wouldn’t surprise me if teams bunched together by the end of July do not sell but try to buy.. the odds and math say that’s the wrong approach. Still I can see it happening.
Central Valley
As a lifelong Giants fan, I am hoping they sell. I think Zaidi is smart enough to realize this. If not, the future years will be drastically hurt. They have been hard to watch since 2016. Ownership will probably filibuster though.
They desperately need top tier young talent. I don’t want to see Madison Bumgarner go, but realize, he and Will Smith can give us a nice return for the future. Don’t screw this up ownership.
jpm9q3
They were hard to watch for most of 2017, September 2018, and May 2019. In the meantime, they almost beat the eventual World Series champs in ’16 and were a pretty respectable .500 team for most of ’18 even without MadBum for most of that time.
nbgiant25
That NLDS in 2016 was rough. The Giants gifted the Cubs several games. The bullpen fell apart at just the wrong time.
malbuff
The villains of that piece were Bochy, for not staying with Law after Bryant’s seeing-eye single, and Crawford, for a critical error on a game-ending DP ball.
doxiedevil
Wise man, you understand a team overhaul. It worked for my Braves and it can work for SF. By the way, Bishop will be a star, he was great for the Sun Devils. Forks Up !!!!
malbuff
What do you think they’ll get for Bumgarner? It has to be a young player with serious upside or the trade is a bust. Will it be more value than a draft pick from a offseason QO?
hansel2525
The fact that they are playing well gives the Giants some leverage. If they don’t get offered the guys they want then they can let it play out. Unless they start losing in the next week or so it will be probably be a mix of holding on to some (Bumgarner) while moving others (one or two of Smith, Watson, Dyson) to give the team a chance and let the fans know they do care about the run they are currently on.
Senioreditor
Leverage???? If they don’t sell and buy and don’t make the post season, getting a draft pick for Bum and Smith is as dum as what Washington did with Harper.
jpm9q3
Yeah. That decision really hurt the Nats, didn’t it.
bencole
Uh… yeah, versus what they could’ve traded him for
Show Me Your Tatis
Getting an extra fourth rounder instead of J.B. Bukauskas + more indeed did hurt the Nats.
bencole
Yeah you were gonna get a lot more than that in July
jpm9q3
But they’re back in contention a year later. Who cares? This fascination with “prospects” instead of winning MLB rosters is ridiculous.
Show Me Your Tatis
You are an idiot. The Giants will either trade both of Bumgarner and Smith or neither of them. At the deadline, teams need to pick a direction and stick to it.
AstrosKLC
If they stay within striking distance like they are now, you owe to Bochy to let him try his magic one last time. Even though Bumgarner has fallen from prominence he might still fetch you a qualifying offer draft pick.
Senioreditor
A draft pick is ok with you for loosing Bum? Are people stupid today. Most picks, even high ones, rarely equal World Series MVP’s. Trade him ASAP and get verifiable proven talent or push winning back 3 more seasons.
steelerbravenation
And how many prospects acquired in trade don’t make it either ????
At that point nothing is guaranteed
jpm9q3
What World Series MVP was acquired from a midseaon trade? Are you talking about Steve Pearce? Pretty sure that was a “buying” situation for the Red Sox.
jpm9q3
And yes, I’m fine with a draft pick. Mostly because the Giants can offer Bum a Qualifying Offer (which he would decline) and offer him Kershaw money to pair him with Cueto next year behind a hopefully still improving offense. Last time the Giants had Bum and Cueto with a decent offense, they almost beat the eventual World Series champions.
malbuff
Giants got two WS MVPs and one league MVP and HOFer in the draft. And let’s see what Joey Bart does in 2021 and Bishop the year after.
Henry Silvestre
a yr or 2? not trading your big assets sets you back like 5yrs.. arguably the player/s you get back in a MadBum or Will S deal are a yr or 2 away from the mlb.. the draft pick is just one 4 or 5yrs out.. vs the 3 for 1 type number of specs coming back in a deal for them..
jpm9q3
Where’s the proof of this? what team has developed a core via rental trades?
nbgiant25
You mean like Joey Bart, who likely will debut less than 2 years after he was drafted?
Your comment is patently wrong.
Jeff Zanghi
There’s 0 chance the Red Sox are interested in MadBum… first of all they don’t have an open rotation spot now that they acquired Cashner (not that he’s as good but still) and more importantly they have 0 $ to work with under the top luxury tax line – so there’s essentially NO WAY they’d be looking at a high priced player like this. It would require the Giants to eat essentially ALL of the remaining $ which just doesn’t make sense really for either side.
Nevrfolow
The Giants can eat the salary, that just means the Sox have to up the ante on prospects. Which would benefit them since money isn’t an issue
mulewhipper
the remaining contract of Bumgarner is not “High priced”. he has a very affordable contract to begin with and…the season is more than halfway through.
its_happening
The time to begin the sell was in the offseason. They didn’t. If they sweep the Mets or even take the next two of three they are at .500. If they keep winning after that they should go in. QO Madison at the end of the season.
Maybe not selling was the right call? We’ll find out.
I get not mortgaging the future for 1 game. Giants are stuck and this decision will have detractors regardless. They might need to wait until the last possible second before making a final decision.
mj-2
Surprised so many think MadBum is worth a QO. He’s borderline at best these days and with how the market is shaped he very well might accept a QO so SF better be comfortable with him accepting that if they’re going to offer it. You’re not exactly guaranteed even a pick by keeping him if that played out.
Really dumb move to keep him
snotrocket
I guarantee they offer him a multi year deal at a higher aav than the QO.
jpm9q3
He’s worth a QO. Keuchel got QO money and MadBum is light years better than Keuchel. Plus, I think Farhan offers Bumgarner an extension in line with (or slightly less than) the Kershaw one. At worst, it would take the Giants over the luxury tax for 2020, but they’d get right back down below it with all the contracts coming off the books for 2021.
bencole
Uh… Kershaw is still good….
nbgiant25
Kershaw is also in very real decline with massive injury flags.
bencole
And Bumgarner screams all of those thing worse.
Pickle_Britches
Kershaw isn’t the ace he once was. Also, Kershaw’s post season #s are garbage. He can’t be counted on a must win game.
Pickle_Britches
No he doesn’t lol. You’re too are also full of useless info. Go back to your video game console kid.
malbuff
Nonsense! He’s never had a recurring injury issue like Kershaw. The guy is a horse. Two freak incidents don’t change that.
its_happening
#3’s get paid more than the QO in today’s game. Yes he’s worth the QO.
For the record, I did not say he is a #3. People are. Therefore, the money would be appropriate.
petrie000
Not so sure about that after what happened to Keuchel. They should be worth it, but in today’s broken market…
Show Me Your Tatis
Looking at the situation objectively, the Giants would GLADLY bring Bumgarner back on a one-year deal. Even if they have to pay a bit of a premium for it. He will 100% receive a QO if not traded.
its_happening
Before I answer this one, haven’t you had enough swings and misses tonight? You’re batting .000 like your namesake. I’d probably quit having Pickels for a while….
As for the Kuechel situation….maybe Madison looks at that Kuechel situation and quickly accepts for one more year. Maybe he quickly signs somewhere. Maybe he re-signs with the Giants. Fact is, Kuechel and Kimbrel opted not to sign. That will be Bumgarner’s call and if he doesn’t sign, so be it. Either way, Giants opting not to rebuild this past offseason set themselves up for this situation. They either have to wear it or blow the entire thing up.
petrie000
And just when I thought we could actually have an intelligent discussion you go and reinforce my already low opinions of you…
Pickle_Britches
Shock me pete000, say something intelligent for once
petrie000
Why? It would go right over your head, you’d say something infantile, then pat yourself on the back for not understanding it
I have no idea why being a moron is a point of pride these days, but it seems to be the current fad…
its_happening
Jeez Petrie at least I managed to finish a thought and elaborated. The day a real baseball discussion can be had with you will be a first. Besides, I couldn’t help myself and it was funny. You’re a clown remember? You should know funny.
petrie000
Such a weirdly popular fad..,
SFGiants74
Jeez people??? 2.5 games with over 60 games to play is not impossible. They once came back from 13.5 out in mid-August to go to the World Series.
Yankeepatriot
The giants need to play better than 5 teams the rest of the season. Simple fact is the match isn’t in their favor. If I’m them I would sell. Too much needs to go right for them to get that second wild card spot and imo they don’t have enough on their roster to do it. They have gone 15-1 I think in their last 16 games and are STILL under 500. Their rebuild time will be extended longer if they don’t cash in on their pending free agents
It’s not impossible and it would be great if they actually did make it for sure though no doubt about it
jpm9q3
The Giants have been playing better than at least 25 teams for a month and a half, but they can’t play better than 5 for the next two months? Math certainly has changed since I got out of school.
VTGiant
I would say 3, Philly, Cards and Brew Crew. Since the All Star Break they’ve won series from Milwaukee and StL, so I don’t think they’re fearful of either.
phenomenalajs
I look at it the reverse way. I think anyone within 5 or so games of the wildcard with the ability to go on a hot streak should not be a seller (at least not a major one; expiring contracts not worthy of QO is fine if there’s a taker). The only seller in the NL should be the Miami Marlins.
Pickle_Britches
They need to trade Madbum, Smith, watson, Dyson and Pablo. Let Zach green , Conner menez, Sam selman, Chris Shaw come up. Get rid of Tyler Austin. They are playing good ball right now but it’s crazy to not cash in while you can, and build the team for the future. They have several promising young talents on the rise. They have 3 players in the top 50, there 1st round pick Bishop will be in too and could have a couple more in the 50-100 range with the trade chips. Imagine having 6-7 top 100 prospects come beginning of 2020. That would make their farm jump big time..
SFGiants74
Zach Green can’t hit. Shaw is a defensive liability.
Pickle_Britches
Shaw’s D isn’t that bad, and plus wouldn’t you like a 25- 30hr player on the Giants? Zach green has been battling injuries from 15-18 and last 2 years in AAA has put up impressive numbers. He’s definitely worth a look
SFGiants74
My only problem with Green is his strikeout rate at AAA is around 30%. It would be really cool to see a guy who grew up watching the Giants be a starter. He needs to work on that strikeout rate.
Pickle_Britches
Yes the strikeouts are a little concerning but, if he can draw some walks while hitting for a solid avg and power, I’m ok with it.
petrie000
You’d be hard pressed to find a player not hitting for ‘solid average and power’ in AAA this season, the balls such a joke the stat lines are all but worthless as projection tools
its_happening
I can agree with that.
malbuff
Shaw is Rob Deer’s baseball grandson. He will not make contact enough to hit 25-30 in a season unless he gets a thousand ABs..
Hondo_Lane
Selling off an entire team’s financially available veteran talent gaurantees nothing.
The Reds and Marlins did that and will continue to be league patsy’s for years.
Small trades reap rewards like Matt William’s for Jeff Kent.
malbuff
Ho ho. That was no “small trade” when it was made, it was a media firestorm in San Francisco. Turned out to be a great trade. of course.
SFGiants74
Mid-season trades rarely return players that you can build a team around. It is unlikely that trading Will Smith will net them someone significantly better then what they have now.
Splitthehorns
Buy or sell is a false dilemma. The Giants can split the horns on this one. the last 15 games or so have show that their offense may not be as broken as everyone thought (me included). So the urgency to get a “bat-first” corner OF has somewhat dissipated. Why kill the buzz on Dickerson, Yaz, and Slater? These look to be solid dumpster dive pieces that might solve that problem for this season. So, what would they trade Smith and Madbum for now? If anything–pieces that will be controllable and help them win. So I predict:
Smith is gone, as is Dyson. They are good, but not irreplaceable. I predict that they might even package these two for a starting pitching prospect .and a decent MLB ready utility piece (think Nunez type). Farhan loves the utility player.
Madbum only goes if the haul is better than what a compensation pick will get. Truly a mathematical calculation.
Even losing these three will not affect their prospects for a wildcard. Madbum plays once every five days, and Melancon and company can pick up the closer role.
VTGiant
Melancon as closer, end of wild card hopes. He doesn’t fool anybody anymore and walks at least one every outing.
nbgiant25
Moronta would be the primary closer.
malbuff
Slater is young, he has real upside. The other two, I love ’em, but yes they are mid-career dumpster dives, both playing great baseball now, little or no future value.
I think the middle course you project may be what happens. Everyone on here who says Bum ought to be traded then turns around and says he’s not worth much. If that’s the case you make the QO, hope he signs, take the pick if not.
I think they trade Watson before Dyson, and either Moronta or Dyson close. Not Melancon, he’s just another pitcher now. Moronta has closer stuff but he HAS to stop walking the first batter or he’ll never make it.
SupremeZeus
An offer they can’t refuse.
The Oregonian
Man the Giants picked the worst possible time to start winning games. Gambling for like a 20% chance at a 50% chance of winning the wild card game? MadBum and Smith are rentals, you have to cash in.
amk3510
Not selling would be the worst thing the Giants can do. The whole reason Zaidi was brought in was to not be sentimental. The Giants getting excited because they are now in the mediocre 2nd wild card race would be such a Bobby Evans Giants thing to do. If they dont trade Smith and Bumgarner they lose their 2 most valuable assets and set themselves back evem further.
jpm9q3
The Bobby Evans thing to do would be to let Duggar play the whole year in CF because no one else in the system could. Oh, I mean, Gorkys Hernandez. Yuck.
jpm9q3
This is so weird. A team that should be over .500 and within 3 games of the playoffs at the deadline is going to keep its best players?! Blasphamy!!
VTGiant
Post of the day! LOL!
Sleeper
Floating around .500 in a crowd of teams in a similar position isn’t exactly something to hang your hat on, especially when they really look to be one of the least talented teams in that bunch.
JayRyder
Not according to the bullpen. Not according to the starters. Manager makes a difference too… Offense is clicking in the modern era where all offenses seem to click here n there. . . Still another week or so. Giants are in there till the deadline. We’ll See. ! ! !
petrie000
How’s about according to record and actual tangible data?
JayRyder
Troll
petrie000
You not liking the answer to a simple question doesn’t make ME the troll…
Pickle_Britches
You, sir, are an oxygen thief
petrie000
This is your expert level baseball knowledge?
jpm9q3
They haven’t been “floating around .500”. They were terrible with a terrible offense for two months of the season. Then, they changed everything about their terrible offense and have been one of the best teams in ball.
The front office will be smart and see what this team projects to be over the final two months: a team better than .500. A high 80s win total gets them solidly in the WC picture,
Hondo_Lane
Bumgarner, by selecting the eight most likely teams to want his services, to be compiled onto his “no trade” list has positioned himself nicely to control his future. He will have a lot of say so if he gets traded, or not.
Bumgarner and the Giants were awesome again last night.
GO GIANTS!
imgman09
No surprise,hoo hum,Even when this team was struggling,they played right with the good teams and now they’ve built some chemistry and players are just playing better with a couple of surprises here and there.I think they are 1-Starter away and production from Joe Panik from being very dangerous if they get in the Wildcard in a watered down National League they could buy if the winning keeps up to the Deadline,that would mess everybody up,haha
JayRyder
I’ve been saying that. Another Starter. Another Second Baseman. Hopefully Panik can be the man. Hit .280 like we know he can. . . 2 smashes last night. Outs…
doxiedevil
The Giants doing nothing won’t make them any better in 2020, and they know it. For the right young talent they will jump at a deal.
jpm9q3
Them fire saleing won’t make them any better for 2020 either most likely. Farhan has shown he can improve the team without trading its best players. He basically got an entire starting OF for free this year.
cowdisciple
And the Giants’ outfield has been worth a total of 1.5 WAR, 26th in baseball. Congratulations, though?
nbgiant25
To be fair, the Giants OF would rank much higher if they didn’t have so much turnover until they settled on the current bunch. The guys that are out there now are a solid OF.
JayRyder
Agreed. !!!
cowdisciple
Maybe they are. They’re still pretty unproven. They’ve certainly played better lately. In- season tryouts and sifting through the duds are part of the cost of the waiver wire spare parts bin approach, though.
jpm9q3
That’s fine, but Duggar, Williamson, Reed. and Joe aren’t coming back, so the OF shouldn’t return to April and May levels. That WAR should only increase.
adshadbolt1
The giants need to sell sell sell I have been saying it for years they need to sell the window closed get some young players and move on. Keep posey and Crawford so people will come to the games but trade everyone else they can. Belt, madbum, Smith, Dyson, Watson, panik, panda, anyone. I really want them to get rid of belt. I don’t care what they get back just get rid of him.
jpm9q3
Yeah. .363 OBP out of the leadoff spot is just godawful.
talking baseball
Giants brass, Give Bochy as chance to go out a winner !! He deserves the opportunity because of what he’s done the previous 12 years. We’ve got the best 6,7,8,9 relievers in the game. All we need is the starters to go is 5 or 6 and the hitters to be clutch. Please one last shot ⚾️⚾️
jpm9q3
He needs to manage like he gives a crap about winning every game. Having Bum hit in the bottom of the 7th last night was stupid. Just like leaving Anderson in to put the tying runs in scoring position was stupid in Milwaukee. The bullpen/offense has bailed him out twice now over the past week, but it’s not guaranteed to happen forever.
The game passed homie by a long time ago. Forget .500 Bochy. Win for the players and the fans.
nbgiant25
Yeah, really stupid of him to let a guy go 9 innings of 94-pitch, 1-run ball, saving the bullpen a bit in a game they won…
And when exactly was a “long time ago?” Before or after the last WS they won, which was less than 5 years ago?
SMH.
jpm9q3
I’d take a starter throwing 7 innings and winning the game over a starter going 9 innings and losing in extras everyday and twice on Sundays. The goal is to win the game, not to have players with awesome stats. Him letting MadBum hit made extras more likely i.e made overusing his bullpen more likely.
2016. When he had 11 pitchers that hadn’t pitched in 5 days going into a critical playoff game at Wrigley down 0-1 to a superteam and started the worst one, who then gave up 3 runs in the first inning and ruined the season. And then 3 days later when he pulled Matt Moore pitching the game of his life to try to get the Giants to a winner-take-all with Cueto on the mound. And then 5 minutes later when he pulled another pitcher. And 5 minutes later when he pulled another pitcher. And 5 minutes later.
Duder’s a .500 manager. He’s average AF.
citizen
Giants need to be realistic. high BA for any player is .243 . worst offense in all of baseball. no true breakout players here. shambled pitching staff. riding a hot streak that wont last. might as well say the 2019 mariners will make the playoffs.
VTGiant
Are you saying their highest batting average is .243? I’d suggest maybe checking a box score or two at least b4 posting that crap.
citizen
Box score? You are obvious too familiar with small sample size. Ba is overall, minimum games. Check hosted stats. Worst offense in MLB. Obviously an angry giants fan facing many years of 100+ loss seasons
VTGiant
Dude, the box score always gives the up to the minute batting average.
citizen
1/2 true on box score. If the giants were to acquire Chris Davis and Davis went 8/8 in the first 2 giants games, Davis is batting 1000.
Overall Davis is hitting below the meddoza line.
jpm9q3
The 2019 Mariners can’t pitch, which last time I checked was half the game. And you can’t trust the yearlong numbers. A lot of Steven Duggar and Mac Williamson ABs in there. Run the numbers after June 21 (Dickerson callup) and June 25 (Belt moved to leadoff) if you want an accurate depicition of this team that is playing now.
nbgiant25
You do know that it takes 2 seconds to fact-check nonsense like this, right?
The Giants have 3 starters under .243, and all of them are trending up after slow starts. The next lowest average is .257 (Pillar). All the rest are higher.
And while they’re certainly no powerhouse on the season as a whole, they’re far from the worst offense, as they’ve shown over the last 3 weeks. And Dickerson, as arguably the best hitter in baseball since he debuted this season, would beg to differ about no breakout players. Until he cools off, he certainly qualifies.
DougieJones
Extend Bumgarner, win the wild card spot, win the wild card game, win the WS. Its that easy.
norcalblue
I hope the Giants win every game they play between now and the deadline and that they hold on to all their pitchers.
phenomenalajs
I think any team within 5 or so games of a wildcard spot should not be a seller. If you have a legitimate shot to make the postseason if you have a hot streak, you shouldn’t be helping potential playoff (or World Series) opponents get better.
jpm9q3
I think it depends. Recent play tells a lot about a team. The Padres should probably sell because they don’t have pitching and pitching deteriorates as the end of hte season gets closer. The Rockies should sell because they can’t win on the road.
The Giants problem for 3+ years has been hitting, particularly on the road in hitter parks. They finally have a capable offense, so they shouldn’t sell, especially with all the indications that Cueto will be back on the MLB mound in September.
Yep it is
They aren’t trading them? Ummm “ driving the price up” is what it is called. Usually the earlier the trade the more you get. The blockbuster doesn’t usually happen on the deadline night as everyone has been moved or moved on. Hold on and take what is offered and they will be sorry.
jpm9q3
No, bro. They aren’t trading em. They will be above .500 and within 3 games of the playoffs by the deadline, unless something crazy happens. Smith could be a drive the price up situation, but MadBum and the rest of the bullpen should stay.
Fg-3
As a Yankee fan I hope the Giants keep Mad Bum.. he’s a legend in San Fran. He’s a great pitcher. He is not the same Mad Bum of the past.. and neither are the Giants. But sometimes you have to hold on to your old glory to keep a fan base. He’s got more mystique than Verlander. He was a easy forget for Detroit. Mad Bum belongs fighting against the Dodgers..but it’s baseball so ya never know. All I know is he won’t be a Yankee
bobtillman
Rather than sell, I can see the Giants actually buying. Consider:
1. For all the noise and hoopla, these deadline deals usually don’t work out for the team that takes the prospect(s). 90% of the time they’re salary dumps, and the Giants have a LOT of money; no dumping needed. And prospects are prospects; sometimes they work out, sometimes not; mostly, they wind up being “meh”.
2. A last run at the roses with Bochy, and all the ensuing drama, will fill Oracle; heck, they get 35K every night with what they have now. If they tear it all apart, they face a real possibility of alienating one of the most loyal fan bases in the sport. They spent a ton on the park, and even today. load it with all the right amenities; these are pretty shrewd business people. Do they want to go into a 2-4 year “tank”? I don’t think so.
3. They can both rebuild and remain competitive; they have the resources. They’d be foolish to do otherwise.
petrie000
Every team that thinks they can rebuild and compete at the same time has only accomplished adding years to their rebuild…
JayRyder
Troll
petrie000
Deluded Homer
Pickle_Britches
Lol your a clown petitefeet000
petrie000
And you’re a homer
Personally I’d rather be a clown, at least they have a sense of humor
jpm9q3
“Every team that thinks they can rebuild and compete at the same time has only accomplished adding years to their rebuild…”
Tell that to the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers.
JayRyder
Well said Bob. . . The Cubs said as much. This week.
Show Me Your Tatis
Deadline deals for rentals always favor the team that gets the prospect unless the other team wins the World Series.
jpm9q3
“Deadline deals for rentals always favor the team that gets the prospect unless the other team wins the World Series.”
Do you actually believe this? So, if you hold your players and lose the World Series in 7, you screwed up your season by not trading for players that were in A or AA ball? This is crazy.
A playoff run (or even just playing meaningful games in September) can help in SO many other ways, especially for a team with deep pockets. I’m thinking season ticket sales and the perception of your team by free agents as two that jump out a whole bunch.
jpm9q3
If, for example, the Giants hold their impending Free Agents and finish at or above .500 but outside the playoffs (which is the pace they are on objectively speaking), it stops a huge wave of negative stuff swirling around this team for the past 2 seasons. That’ll help this squad win it’s next division title in probably just as many ways as some AA prospect who’s 1-2 years away from the major leagues.
Tanking and selling off all the useable parts off the MLB team isn’t the only way to build a winning team, folks.
Show Me Your Tatis
Are you kidding? Holding Bumgarner and Smith and missing the playoffs entirely would be terrible for the Giants.
norcalblue
I pray the Giant ownership sees it precisely this way and ties Zaidi’s hands in the manner you suggest. I would be shocked if the Giants don’t sell off their rentals; but, stranger things have happened. Sabean would have behaved this way, but I suspect Giants have learned their lesson.
jpm9q3
This is spot on. They decided not to tank in March and now the team is competitive. They are not going to decide to tank in July. That’d be the most idiotic thing I’ve seen in baseball probably ever.
Not to mention hitting is the cheapest its been since I’ve followed baseball. The Giants have the most coveted asset in the game (pitching, particularly relief pitching) and need the thing that they can find almost anywhere (power hitting). Tanking and selling was a dumb idea from the jump.
BigDogRy
It just makes no sense to trade MadBum or Smith now. The Giants are showing life. They are the hottest team in baseball. They are winning in so many different ways. They are close to getting the wildcard spot and if they win that game then they’ll probably have a series with the arch rival Dodgers. Just think of the money and drama that series would make. Plus are 2 rental players really going to bring enough in a trade to drastically improve their team. There’s so many ways to improve a team in baseball. Look at what Farhan has done this year and he hasn’t made a trade. It’s all about knowing talent and he does! Dont trade!!!
petrie000
Amazing how one win streak against some pretty weak competition can completely change the way an entire fan base feels about Zaidi…,
JayRyder
Troll
BigDogRy
They’ve been winning series against teams with better records than them…the Brewers, the Cardinals, the Dbacks. They almost took 2 of 3 from the Dodgers. They may not win the wild card but you can’t give up on a team that is close to getting there, especially for a few prospects that you just “hope” will be major league starters. There’s other ways to build up a team, starting with better scouting and improved drafts like this year’s draft.
petrie000
You can easily give up on a team that’s almost mediocre when it’s going to lose several key pieces for nothing if it chases mediocrity
Show Me Your Tatis
Those prospects MIGHT never contribute to the Giants in the future. But we know Bumgarner and Smith won’t because they are FA’s.
And before you say that they can extend/re-sign Bumgarner Smith, that would still be true if they do trade them.
BigDogRy
If the Giants beat DeGrom tonight after what happened last night, then it is safe to say they have turned the corner and they have a fairly good chance at landing a wild card spot. In any sport, you should never give up on a season if you have that chance. It is ridiculous to tell all the fans, and the team that we need to think about next year, so let’s not go for it this year. And in baseball, any hot team can surprise a more talented team in a series. The Giants proved that a few times this decade. And the players we get in a potential Madbum or Smith trade is not going to turn it all around for the Giants. We will have many opportunities to do that via free agency, drafts, international signings, and waiver wire pick ups.
Show Me Your Tatis
If that’s the case then no trading Smith either.
BigDogRy
I agree. A top starter and a dependable closer are 2 of the more difficult people to replace. They may even get more back if they trade some of their other bullpen arms that have longer contracts and more club control. They’d also be easier to replace with guys like Adon or Black in the minors.
petrie000
If you’re basing your opinion of a baseball season entirely on the outcome of a game that hasn’t even been played yet, don’t expect to ever be taken seriously
I mean, honestly, beating the Mets isn’t that hard these days anyway..,
BigDogRy
But you are the one saying they aren’t beating any quality opponents, which wouldn’t be the case if they beat Syndergaard and DeGrom. But I’ll stop arguing with someone who wants to give up on a season when the team still has a decent chance at making the playoffs. Go ahead and give up. The true fans don’t need you at the ballpark anyways.
petrie000
They’re not playing single pitchers, they’re playing entire teams… teams that aren’t exactly playing great baseball right now
If you’re going to intentionally forget baseball is a team effort, stop arguing just to stop wasting space
BigDogRy
They’ve been beating TEAMS who have better records and are more talented on paper. But like you said, this is a team sport, and as a TEAM the Giants are playing better than these other teams that the common fan sees as a better team just because they only look at the stats. Well very few of the Giants teams during their championship runs had better TEAMS on paper but they definitely played better as a unified group of players with a superior coach and coaching staff.
petrie000
Okay, so the Giants are playing slightly above the level of ‘disappointment’, and somehow that makes them contenders?
You can understand the skepticism from outside looking in, I’m sure
Pickle_Britches
Lol scrubb
petrie000
Another impotent display of denial, how convincing…
jpm9q3
THEY ARE BEATING UP ON THE COMPETITION FOR THE PLAYOFF SPOT THEY ARE CHASING. Whether those teams are “good” or “bad” or “mediocre” or whatever, that’s who they have to beat to make the playoffs. Simple as that.
jpm9q3
Farhan has to decide in the next two weeks whether his team has a chance to track down the Cardinals, Brewers, Phillies, and Diamondbacks. Not much better evidence exists than the fact that his team has recently won 2 series against the Diamondbacks and one each against the Cards and Brewers (who they should have swept).
Show Me Your Tatis
Giants either trade both of Smith and Bumgarner or neither. Not just Smith. There is nothing they could realistically get for Will Smith that would help them down the stretch and in the playoffs more than, well… Will Smith.
On the other hand, if they don’t think they can make the playoffs this year. Then Bumgarner needs to go. It doesn’t matter if he is a franchise icon and a likely QO recipient if he isn’t traded. Not trading him and then not making the playoffs would look as bad for SF as it did for the Nationals with Bryce Harper last year.
stan lee the manly
This isn’t surprising at all, they will get a lot more at the deadline when teams need to bid. Why take a deal now?
bobtillman
You never get the revenue back that you lose during a “rebuild” that you advertise as such. And you stand the danger of losing some of your fan base. As an industry, MLB is having trouble generating new fans; SF wouldn’t be any different. So why would you want to subtract from the fans you have?
Regardless of how they got there, the Giants are “in it”. They have to act like it. Now, lose 8 out of the next 10, the paradigm changes. And that ever-understanding base will understand it. But to waive the white flag now would just be dumb.
And they ain’t dumb…..
Show Me Your Tatis
Trading Smith would be waving the white flag.
petrie000
If they waste all the trade value of Smith and MadBum because they have a very unlikely shot at a one game play then dumb is exactly what they are…
They either have to add substantially to really be World Series contenders (which means draining what little farm depth they have), or sell anything of value. Not doing either is just wasting time and resources
rightyspecialist
This team is not a few pieces away…this is a group of fringe AAA players integrated into an old declining core. They have -37 DIFF. To even consider them a playoff team is just madness. Are they at .500? Old teams always get worse never better
petrie000
Hey, even year voodoo, right!
… wait…
jpm9q3
Everyone here is operating under an outdated view of MLB. Trading for good hitters doesn’t take top prospects anymore. You wait the team out and give them the best deal. Look at Machado. Baltimore got crap for him. Look at what the Red Sox gave up for Steve Pearce and Nathan Eovaldi, the two dudes along with David Price that basically won them a World Series.
And the same is true for rental pitchers. Look at what Darvish and Hamels brought back in trades. Basically nothing!!
So anyone who thinks the Giants are missing out on some great once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to trade MadBum, or that’d they’d be mortgaging the farm to add a few pieces hasn’t been watching the trade market the last few years. Unless a team believes in MadBum’s playoff pedigree (which they should) he’d bring back a Willie Calhoun (who was just demoted to the minors) type player. Also, the Giants can add quality MLB players to the MLB team by giving up flier AA and A players they don’t believe it. The in-season trade market has changed a whole bunch in the last few years. Teams are hording their best prospects and just wait selling teams out until they basically take the best deal available.
Pete'sView
And because Farhan is not dumb, he knows there are at least eleven teams that are far, far superior to the Giants and who have deep farm systems. Standing pat is a recipe for 5-6 years of more mediocrity.
jpm9q3
The team with the best farm system is below the Giants in the standings and sinking to the bottom of the NL. Meanwhile, the Giants have 4 Top 100 prospects. Fascination over farm system rankings is silly.
Pete'sView
Farhan should stick with the plan. The first hot streak in 2.5 years does not make the Giants a contender. If they stand pat, or do very little, they will be mediocre for 4-5 more years. I’m not saying give up their players for long-shots, but no one—including Bumgarner—should be safe in the next 2 weeks. The casual Giant fan will piss and moan, but the hardcore faithful know it’s time. Plus, they can re-sign MadBum in the off-season if both sides want.
SFGiants74
Trading MadBum will not make the Giants instant contenders. The return will be minimal. So, why trade him.
Pete'sView
NO trade will make the Giants instant contenders, but if the FO knows what it’s doing, the Giants can be contenders (and sustainable contenders) for years, as they were in the past. Standing pat would be an unmitigated disaster—unless, of course, you’ve enjoyed watching them for the past 2.5 seasons (not including the last 10 days)..
bobtillman
Gotta love fans that are worried about the 2023 Giants’ lineup when the chance (ever so slight, I grant you) of a playoff spot is still in play in 2019. And those who think for two rentals like MadBum and Smith, you’ll get Fernando Tatis and Wander Franco.
What you’ll get is 2 “meh-s” and 3 guys who’ll never see a MLB park. And if you think that return is worth a shot at the post season (again, an ever so small one), I don’t know what to tell ya.
jpm9q3
Exactly. MadBum isn’t getting a bidding war going. If he was, he would have been traded before the ASB. No one wants the middle relievers. If they did, they would have been traded for outfielders before the season started. Will Smith is the only one coveted by most teams. I would trade him if the return is nice (maybe like a Dylan Carlson or Tyler O’Neill or Clint Frazier or Keston Hiura or Gavin Lux type), but I’m sure most teams are trying to wait the Giants out hoping the price will drop. While they were waiting, the Giants turned into contenders, so they messed up.
I’d still trade Smith no matter what the record is at the deadline if the Giants can get a foundational piece. like one of those guys I mentioned. Shut down closers are a luxury for a team fighting for the second wild card spot. They would be more valuable for a team with a locked in playoffs spot looking to make a deep run. And I think the relievers on hand can replace about 75-80% of Smith’s production, so the drop off wouldn’t be that sharp.
Pete'sView
I would have loved Franco (or Tatis or Riley), but we didn’t and don’t have the chips for that level of prospect. But you don’t know (anymore than I) that the players the Giants will get in return will be “2 “meh-s” and 3 guys who’ll never see.” Maybe THOSE will be the players that are useful in some other trade, down the line. What we do know is that this team is not very good, and so far from the elite teams that hanging onto a one-year very, very long-shot, is just plain wasteful. Let’s not get distracted by a brief shiny object.
its_happening
Zip-Zip in the Giants game. May want to take advantage of this one and extend the win streak.
SFGiants74
The Giants won. Why are you still complaining.
its_happening
What I said was a complaint? I wonder if you hide when an actual complaint is typed here. For the record I was bored waiting for my luggage at the airport.
Hondo_Lane
Remember that one time in 2014 when the Giants won the 2nd wild card spot and the dewdgers won the NL West again, but the Giants won the World Series with a pitcher who threw 56 innings in the postseason.
Who was the pitcher’s name again? He looked a lot like that guy who pitched 9 innings the other night and shut down the Mets.
jpm9q3
We don’t even have to go back to 2014. Remember 2016, when the Giants had a shot against a Cubs team that was better than this year’s Dodgers team?
bobtillman
Since I’m a 100 years old, the Giants remind me of the ’67 Red Sox. A bunch of has-beens, never-wases, and waiver wire pickups that somehow meshed into a playoff team.
Oh, and they both have/had a guy named Yastrzemski in the outfield. (Mike might be a little short of grandpa tho).
They’re the most entertaining team in MLB right now, and who doesn’t want a noble warrior like Bochy go out with some glory? So they roll the dice and miss out; so what? They’ll keep the fan base, and have some fun.
Besides, any thing that inspires me to watch that incredibly good broadcast/TV crew is worth it.
Chuckeei1
The Giants have a pedigree as the winningest franchise in the 20 teens. Yes, many guys have performed under par, but the vets are starting to kick in and they know what it takes to win. Posey, Belt, Crawford, Panik, The Panda, and Madbum, are feeling it. While they are older, they are not old.
Pitching and defense are always key in winning. The Giants have one of the best pens in the game, and solid defense especially up the middle. Pillar is simply a great defensive center fielder. Posey’s defense speaks for itself, and Crawford and Panik are solid vets who make very few mistakes.. All this makes for a great potential run to the wildcard.
The rumor now is they are buyers. Grabbing another quality starter is on the rada.r. and winning a wild card is what the fans want,. Retooling, or rebuilding is not what this team wants and they are proving it.
Hondo_Lane
Giants let a future Hall of Famer leave the organization, but he might be back to record his 300th win in 15 years?
Hondo_Lane
Giants let a future Hall of Famer leave the organization, but he might be back to record his 300th win in 15 years?