1:29pm: Marisnick is appealing the suspension, according to MLBPA communications director Chris Dahl (hat tip to Mark Berman of KRIV Fox 26).
12:28pm: Astros outfielder Jake Marisnick has been suspended for two games and fined an undisclosed amount as a result of the home-plate collision that fractured Jonathan Lucroy’s nose and concussed the Halos’ catcher, the league announced Thursday. If Marisnick does not appeal the punishment, he’ll begin serving it tonight.
“After thoroughly reviewing the play from all angles, I have concluded that Jake’s actions warrant discipline,” MLB chief baseball officer Joe Torre said in a statement accompanying the announcement. “While I do not believe that Jake intended to injure Jonathan, the contact he initiated in his attempt to score violated Official Baseball Rule 6.01(i), which is designed to protect catchers from precisely this type of collision.”
The play in question (video link) saw Marisnick attempt to score on a flyout to Kole Calhoun. While the impact of the collision led Lucroy to drop the throw from right field, Marisnick was still ruled out due the collision. Lucroy appeared to have left a lane open, though Marisnick explained on Twitter after the incident that he misjudged the situation in making a split-second decision:
“Through my eyes I thought the play was going to end up on the outside of the plate,” Marisnick tweeted. “I made a split second decision at full speed to slide head first on the inside part of the plate. That decision got another player hurt and I feel awful. I hope nothing but the best for [Jonathan Lucroy].”
The suspension would cost Marisnick roughly $24K of this season’s $2.212MM salary (in addition to the fine). Through 72 games and 194 plate appearances this season, Marisnick is hitting .250/.309/.466 with eight home runs, 12 doubles, a triple and six steals.
That was a bad head shot. he could have slide on outside of plate and would have scored easily but instead took out the catcher.
If you watch the play you’ll see that Marisnick goes from the outside, and makes a hard cut inside. The throw brings Lucroy straight inside and up the line. Critics have stated that Marisnick raises his forearm into Lucroy’s head. Of course he did. At that point he had no option except to protect himself as much as possible and brace for impact.
When targeting a catcher, runners do not make sharp cuts and deviate from their paths. They gain as much momentum as possible in a straight line. Marisnick did deviate, obviously trying to avoid contact and a tag. He just guessed wrong.
It was a tied ballgame in the bottom of the eighth. Marisnick was the winning run. There is zero reason why he would target the catcher, as it would result in an out and the end of the inning. Everything after this incident occurred is wrong and unfair. The perception of Marisnick to the suspension is wrong.
if I remember the play correctly Lucroy never moved from his spot. Marisnick side stepped his path right into Lucroy. The foul side of the plate was the lane to take and he didn’t
Then you don’t remember it correctly or didn’t see alternate viewing angles. I was dead certain it was an intentional collision until I saw a view coming from behind home on the first base side. Lucroy was leaning out towards the fowl side and came to the inside at the same time Marisnick made the decision to cut inside.
This is why I think that if they’re going to have this rule to protect the catchers, catchers shouldn’t be allowed in the middle of the baseline. They either stand on the inside or the outside.
Lucroy was just inside the line, correctly. He gave Marisnick a path. He then leans to his left (foul side) just before leaning up and into the line back into fair territory to make the catch. That brief lean into foul territory occurred just as Marisnick was making a decision to slide left or right. Unfortunately he guessed wrong and went right into Lucroy’s position.
there is nobody in the league who slides inside the line to get safe when outside was completely open.
Lucroy was in a position to be able to tag Marisnick if he slid outside. His foot and part of his leg were directly in front of home plate. He only needed to pivot slightly and rotate on an outside tag. Marisnick anticipated that was exactly what was going to happen. Lucroy can be seen leaning backwards as if he is preparing to catch the ball and make the tag. The timing of Marisnick’s cut back into fair territory coincides with all of this.
7:13 does not require the catcher to concede a lane to the backside, it requires a lane be conceded. Marisnick, if believing the lane was to the front side at that point, was within his right to cut to that lane (which he perceived to be in front of home plate). He guessed wrong.
Marisnick clearly violated the Buster Posey rule cutting from outside diving into the field of play head and forearm targeting Lucroy head a play like that could end a baseball player’s career there’s no room in baseball for a dirty player no matter how you slice it and dice it Astro fans you know what they say about Karma we are third baseman took one to the chin
False. He targeted him and deserves the suspension. It was obvious on the replay he went right for him with the entire backside open.
Why would he target Lucroy, especially on that play?
You’re an idiot or an Angels fan and can’t be bothered to rewatch the video. There was no intent. There was no reason for intent. Lucroy blocked the inside and made an adjustment to the outside for the catch but flinched back inside, effectively blocking Jake. Jake made a split second choice and ended up colliding. It was an accident, not intentional.
Bottom of 10th he is the winning run. He proly felt the play was closer then it really was and decided best chance at winning the game was to blow up the catcher.
He guessed wrong, and 2 games is BS for that hit. 5 would have been fairn now Marisnick looks like a butt for appealing a play that hurt someone.
Stop projecting.. Marisnick screwed up by blowing up the catcher who didnt have the ball and who was in fair territory, while the whole back half of plate was wide wide wide open for a simple slide.. Im not an Angels fan nor Astro’s fan or hater. Calling it exactly how it is.
Good replay of it
twitter.com/BsbLifestyle__/status/1148047932719030…
The Astros had already scored several runs that inning. They had momentum and he was the go ahead run. It was an unfortunate accident. No player is dumb enough to go head first into another player on purpose. He was just as likely to get hurt himself.
The problem is none of these players know how to slide any more. If he had attempted a correct slide, the collision would have been much less. There was no intent to hurt Lucroy. All these keyboard warriors are out here attributing intent on Marisnick’s part based a 5 second .gif they saw.
Yes and that’s why he lowered his shoulder and launched himself
If two games is all he gets this won’t be the last “unintentional” play like that. I’m not saying he did or didn’t intend, that’s beside the point. If I’m in the playoffs or in a series with playoff implications I’m doing it to take out the least replaceable player on the team. I’d throw right at his head next time he comes up if I’m the Angels.
I agree I don’t his is not over there’s a score to be settled
I see what you’re saying with the replay, but what I don’t see him doing is sliding. I see him barrelling the catcher over,
If that was a slide, then he should take the 2 game suspension and figure out a better way to reach the plate.
You don’t finish a slide into a catcher six feet up the line, for obvious reasons. The most obvious being six feet up the line, into a catcher.
He was starting his slide. Lucroy was up the line more than usual because of the throw.
Replay shows it clearly both of Lucroy feet were standing inside the field of play open Lane for
Marisnick
If he was getting into a slide, then his sliding sucks.
if you have a conscience you wouldn’t say such nonsense. just about everyone disagrees with you including the commissioner’s office. though it chickened out by suspending marisnick 2 effin’ games!
“While I do not believe that Jake intended to injure Jonathan”
Signed, Joe Torre
Vizion, are you suggesting that Joe Torre doesn’t speak for the commissioners office with this statement, or that Torre doesn’t believe that a purposeful head on collision might result in a concussion?
Anticipating your response with vigor
you watch the video without prejudice. if you don’t see marinick’s fault go to a place of worship and pray.
Instead of projecting your morality maybe you should account for what you said. Ya know, the thing about the commissioners office and what Torre said about the incident that contradicts your statement.
I think you need to take a further look at the play there old oak….Marisnick was inside the fair line when he contacted Lucroy who was totally justified as to his position in relation to the play….it is Marisnick who deviated inside the fair line which was an obvious choice and intention of jarring the ball loose from Lucroy if he indeed had a play. The runner is supposed to run outside the line not inside.
While I don’t think it was his intention to harm, he totally had the intention of making contact which is a violation of the catchers rule in baseball put into effect to protect defenseless catchers.
Finally with a tie score your logic is a bit curious….with a tie score why wouldn’t’ he try and make contact if he thought he was a dead duck anyway….the ball could come loose, or the umpire might not rule him out for the catchers rule. The perception of Marisnick is totally correct and founded correctly. This doesn’t make him a demon but just a suspended ball player for his actions. Every ballplayer is aware of the rule!
“Every ballplayer is aware of the rule!”
Well you said it yourself
Marisnick was clearly in the wrong he could have avoided it with a slide a play like that could end a catcher’s career that’s why the Buster Posey Act is in place to protect catchers I seen the replay Lucroy was standing inside the field of play not outside the field of play I applaud the commissioner of baseball too bad his suspension wasn’t longer there’s no room for a dirty player
Well stated, oldoak33. Accurate description of the play and the way Marisnick reacted.
Agree, typically the momentum would take the catcher to the outside of the baseline. Unfortunately on this play the ball was offline up the baseline and as the catcher tried for the ball momentum carried him into the baseline. The catcher dropped the ball ahead of the collision, clear drop and was in the baseline and moving across. Jake is not a dirty player and misjudged where the catcher would be. The critics saying he should have gone outside would probably cry foul if he went outside and the catcher actually fielded the ball saying Jake was outside the baseline to avoid a tag. Sorry the catcher was injured but when not in possession of the ball do not see how he can be in the baseline of the runner.
12up.com/posts/video-slow-motion-clip-of-jake-mari…
Almost every base runner these days takes the outside path and reaches back with the hand. The catchers get fair territory because they can’t block. Marisnick made a bad play. The punishment should be equal to the injury in my book.
The slide is to the outside if the catcher is in front of the base fielding a ball thrown to him. This play the throw was up the third base line and this caused the catcher to move toward third and into the base line. The runner could not have known how far into the line or across the throw would take. Bad accident and hate the catcher was injured but both were trying to do their job and the catcher missed the ball. The ball was clearly out of his mitt before the collision. Sorry but just an accident between two great ball players.
Lucroy missed the ball there no reason to call maresnick out. Same thing happend in 2017 with the Cubs and Dodgers. Contreas clearly didn’t block the plate for one. 2 the runner never touched the plate yet the Dodgers were rewarded a run. In the end it was irrelevant but you shouldn’t give a team a run when the Runner doesn’t touch the plate.
The rule needs to better explained. If the catcher blocks the plate and he tags the runner. No run should be given. The only way the runner gets the run is if the catcher misses or drops the ball.
Buster Posey Rule which states that a runner attempting to score may not deviate from his direct pathway to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher or other player covering home plate
Marisnick tried to avoid contact, if you watch the replay you’ll see him “roll” to the outside as soon as he saw Lucroy move in front of him.
the Astros took one on the chin today yikes Karma
Shouldn’t be on the field until Lucroy can
Agree
By that logic, Brian Anderson shouldn’t be on the field for breaking Kluber’s arm with a line drive.
You can’t control where you hit a ball. You can control who you tackle.
You can’t control where you hit the ball? Of course you can. Somewhat at least. You can certainly not try to hit the ball back up the middle, but every day pro hitters try to literally hit the ball back up the middle. Or hitters try to hit the ball to the right side to advance the runner. Or try to hit a fly ball for a tag. Or try to lift and separate to hit a home run.
I guess you just have an issue with the degree of intent. So if a hitter is 100% attempting to hit a pitcher with a line drive, that’s wrong. But if a hitter is just trying to barrel a ball back up the middle and the pitcher just so happens to be standing in the way, that’s fine.
To me, this play coincides with the latter more than the former example. Marisnick was trying to get to home plate, was attempting to go inside the line (tie ballgame. Bottom of the eighth. He’s the winning run) but the catcher just so happened to have been taken inside and up the line by the throw. No malice or ill intent. Just unfortunate, like a line drive at a pitchers head.
there are countless players who hit into double plays knowing full well they should have hit the ball high and long.
As well as countless players that go with a pitch and drive it up the middle. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that accidents happen?
Oldoak33 you obviously dont play baseball from your moms basement. Clearly targeted a defenseless catcher. Good for you sitting there defending a despicable act and acting like it wasnt malicious. Get over yourself kid.
Get off the guys mom’s basement, got nothing to do with the conversation.
Love how you say it’s a malicious play as if it were you making the decision.
Since were speculating and analyzing things, let’s look at what Marisnick did right before contact. Some say he leaned in or lowered his shoulder, but if you look at how the runner progressed through the collision you can speculate no intent to injure. The runner collapses his right side and attempted to “roll” to the outside as contact is made.
The pictures I have seen taken during the collision show the runners clearly dropping his outside knee, not going to get any leverage with a knee in the dirt…poor tackling technique if you ask me.
Exactly Brewcrew….oldoak I like Marisnick and I get that as a 4th outfielder he has to leave it on the field when he gets a chance to play. In this case however he stepped radically toward Lucroy even though his path was to the foul side, lowered his shoulder and launched himself into Lucroy. He stepped over the line. He shouldn’t be able to play until Lucroy can
Runners do not “radically” shift their directions to collide with catchers. Especially in today’s game. They run, usually in a straight line to where the catcher is. The plate was wide open. Everyone agrees with that. Clearly, Marisnick guessed where Lucroy was headed and was wrong.
total bull!
I agreey
Marisnick is a bully
A few years back Lucroy was the runner and ran in Chirinos and the uproar was that Chirinos was blocking the plate and Lucroy should have been safe. Difference to me was Chirinos had the ball, Lucroy tried to shake him loose from it but could not and he was called out. I hate him getting injured but he was in the baseline not even at home plate and did not have the ball. Jake is a good clean player but this was an accident from both men playing the game.
The difference was that is an accident the batter can’t control where the ball goes Marisnick clearly took a cheap shot at Lucroy I guess if it happened to the Astros catcher you’d be up in arms
What about pitchers hitting a batter and breaking his wrist. Does the pitcher get suspended and stay out of action until the batter returns?
Angels fan here. Nasty collision. I didn’t see any intent in the part of Marisnick. It looked like he tried to move to the inside part of the plate at the last minute, and Lucroy was there. 2 games is fair.
Common sense finally. Just an unfortunate situation and it happens sometimes in sports. I’m sure there wasn’t intent from Marisnick, but the MLB had to suspend him.
I think a fine was a bit harsh since it wasn’t deemed malicious
Not an Angels fan here, but a fan of baseball and rules. Marisnick deserves a 5 game suspension.
This might sound odd coming from a Yankees fan but this kind of decision should not be in the hands of our former catcher. Was he correct? Yes. But this is more about leaving it in the hands of our former catcher on all home plate collisions.
Who’s your former catcher?
Joe Torre was a catcher for much of his very good playing career.
But never for the Yankees. Of course he managed there, but golden says “our” former catcher twice, after referring ri himself as a Yankees fan. I think that was Yogi’s point.
Yes, it is odd that you’re a Yankees fan.
It’s odd as a Yankee fan that he thought Torre played for them.
That’s a very interesting take… and not a bad one either.
he should have handed out 10 game suspension being a former catcher himself!
I’m someone who thinks the rule is bad and has hurt the game but agreed this looked like Marisnick altered his path at the very last second to create the collision. Reading his comments and not having any reason not to believe him, he terribly misread something in motion in front of him running at full speed in a split second. Catchers may be better protected being taught to anticipate contact than relying on the rule to protect them.
Your statement boils down to catchers not playing hard and allowing players to score regardless of whether or not you’ve realized that.
I’m admittedly not very smart so I may have said something there you could read that I didnt even know I wrote. Here is a better try, there are a lot of variables in plays at the plate because of the distance of the throw, how some bounce, etc. A runner has to read where the catcher may be at full speed and the catcher could all of a sudden be in his path. The rule makes a catcher believe he wont be hit so they dont set themselves up in that regard like they would prerule. Its not effort or hustle, they are told they won’t be hit. When you anticipate a collision you set your feet up for it, you get lower than the runner if he comes in high, etc. Lucroy didnt even keep his mask on, would anyone anticipating a play that may have a collision take off equipment that could help protect your face? You only would expose yourself that way if a rule makes you believe a collision wont happen. Thats why I think the rule hurt Lucroy and hurts other catchers more than it helps.
runners just slide outside the line. better chance to score!
Except when you think the throw is high to the backside, or might shorthop the catcher, causing the catcher to step deep.
Not if the throw takes the catcher outside the line, then you have a lot less chance to score and could get yourself or the catcher hurt. The catcher has to be able to react to throws, especially throws that hit the grass and short hop or long hop or skip or whatever. Catcher isnt in the same spot on all plays at home, he cant be.
Rewatch the play but focus on the throw and Lucroy. Jake runs several mph faster than league average. Lucroy adjusted his position to catch the ball by moving to the outside and toward Jake right as Jake was about to dive. Jake adjusted his dive when Lucroy re-adjusted toward the inside. Both made split second decisions and ended up going big to the same place. Unfortunately, Lucroy was in a bad position because he had to reach for the ball and open his front a bit.
if you see it that way shame on you.
That’s how a lot of people see it and saw it before Marisnick came out and confirmed what a lot of people thought. He saw a backside move and went the wrong way.
rerogers, Lucroy moves maybe an inch towards the outside, not perceivable at normal speed, only at slow speed, Marisnick takes a full step, at least 2 feet inside the base path. No excuses, Marisnick intentionally, although not maliciously, collided with Lucroy. He’s getting off easy with a 2 game suspension.
Suspended two games, forfeiting $24,000 of his annual salary. Holy jeez, even random players who are probably barely better than replacement level make more in three games than I do in a year.
You should be a replacement level player so you can make more than you do now.
Guess you need to do something to improve your lot in life then.
Let them play baseball, it’s starting to turn into a game of pre-Madonna’s. He shouldn’t have been suspended.
Who was your favorite female artist pre-Madonna? I’m going Aretha Franklin. Dick Don’t Call Me Richie Allen was my favorite pre-Madonna ballplayer.
Ronnie Spector and Pete Rose
This is an under rated comment. Epic.
Maybe he meant baseball is turning into an old timer’s game, filled with players who retired before 1983?
Were you perhaps going for “prima donnas”? That was absolutely painful to read.
If “pre-Madonna” was an auto correct, it’s the funniest one I’ve seen since “Superb Owl.”
True, I should have thought of the autocorrect possibility. Also true, it’s a very funny autocorrect
hope your son plays catcher. enjoy collisions!
Me too, then he could find out what a weak human you created.
you want collisions? go to boxing.
Sounds like figure skating would be right up your alley.
Exactly throw some dirt on it. And play on.
@baseball201825 you shouldn’t have graduated. (Taking a big assumption that you did)
This suspension was warranted and needed to reinforce the respect for the rule.
The ‘rule’ sucks .
This will happen again, reinforced or not.
MLB made the rule with the purpose of lessening the hits not getting rid of 100% of them. Collisions happen it’s part of the game. Doesn’t mean the rule hasn’t helped save injuries for both catchers and runners though.
puny 2 games!
Bottom line, Lucroy moved into the running lane without the ball, run should have scored. That being said, the suspension is still warranted due to Marisnick diving toward Lucroy. These new nerf league catcher rules are so ridiculous, if you can’t take the hit, let the runner by without a play
What I don’t see in any comments that HOU announcers noted during the live broadcast was that according to said new rules, if a catcher does NOT concede a lane to the plate (to avoid such a collision) then the player can run into the catcher if in said lane. The wide throw pulled Lucroy into the lane which was never conceded and the split second decision led to a bad collision resulting in injuries. Marisnick did everything by the book. There was no ill intent and I don’t think Marisnick was ever trying to jar the ball loose because there was never a moment Lucroy would even have had the ball.
Exactly. It’s a BS decision to suspend him. But without the suspension the rule lacks authority and allows for more collisions.
I guess you also didn’t see the clear path to the back of the plate that Marisnick was on. Lucroy was in fair ground, Marisnick had to cross the foul line to make contact. Dress it up all you like, but Marisnick clearly changed his path resulting in the collision.
Immanuel Kant is rolling over in his grave.
I believe he would refute your theory based on that fact that dead bodies cannot, of their own accord, roll. Then again, he’s dead and cannot refute facts, so your theory stands for the time being, pending input from Galileo and Hume.
Schrodinger would say he’s simultaneously rolling over in his grave and not rolling over in his grave.
Strictly speaking, simultaneity is not part of Schrodinger’s hypothesis. Contradictory conditions take effect alternately, but in sequence, as if controlled by a toggle switch.
Marisnick should be out as long as Lucroy is out PLUS 2 games. As it is, it’s a toothless penalty.
Runners shouldn’t lead with their helmets.
Catchers shouldn’t block the plate with their face while not holding a baseball. See, it also sounds stupid.
When you realize you are about to crash face first into something, most humans duck and perfect their head.
Look at it in slomo. He said he thought the play was going to be on the outside (seems true because he steps towards inside to avoid the tag) then said he started to slide but saw lucroy right there and it looks like he’s about to dive head first to the front side of the plate. Unfortunately lucroy was there and gets hurt, but it’s such a bang bang play it’s no ones fault. It’s sports. Injuries are bound to happen. I can’t stand the outcry for a 20 game suspension for an accident
there in the mud marisnick’s left footprint where he launched himself from. there may not have been an intent to injure the catcher but he intentionally went inside to cannonball himself into lucroy. 2 game ban? laughable!
So in half a second he thinks lucroy is going outside to field the ball, steps in and starts his slide, sees that lucroy wasn’t going outside, and needs to stop his slide so he not going neck first into lucroy. Do you not realize how bang-bang that play is?
He also tries to “roll” outside.
As a Astro’s fan, agree there was no ill intent by Marisnick, but unfortunately the rule is in place and he made the wrong choice in that split second. Is what it is…serve the penalty and move on.
JM redirected his path, stepped towards JL who gave JM a direct path to the plate, lowered his shoulder, left his feet and slammed into JL full speed with JM’s helmet ramming into JL’s head … this is why the rules were changed … to many nasty injuries and concussions to catchers and base runners … this is not football where they wear protective helmets and pads to help prevent injuries … baseball is not supposed to be a violent sport …
Most people lower their shoulders and leave their feet when sliding. It’s literally impossible to not lower your shoulder or leave your feet when you slide head first. Have you tried it?
All batters wear helmets when batting and when running the bases. So, since it’s impossible to not lower your shoulders, or head, and impossible to not leave feet when sliding head first, it seems somewhat reasonable that the helmet wearing head would be one of the first things to impact an object in any collision. Does that make sense?
Yea most players don’t slide head first into a catcher standing two feet in front of them with no possible way to score without ramming into the catcher … that was not an attempt at a slide … if he wanted to slide he had the whole back side of the plate at his disposal …
Well of course now you can say that the backside was wide open, because now we know that the throw took Lucroy up and inside the line. Marisnick had no reason to go after Lucroy. His run was the winning run in a tie ballgame, two outs in the bottom of the eighth. That game is over after three ninth inning outs if he guesses right and goes to the back side. Instead, here we are talking about Marisnick as a dirty player (which he isn’t) and an unjust fine.
“most players don’t slide head first into a catcher standing two feet in front of them with no possible way to score without ramming into the catcher”
The collision occurred five to six feet up the line, and Marisnick is clearly beginning his slide four to five feet before the collision occurs. That’s roughly ten to twelve feet away from home plate when Marisnick begins his slide. His knees are almost touching the ground before the impact. Why on earth would a player initiate a collision ten feet up the line when the backside is clearly wide open in a tie ballgame? Simple answer is he wouldn’t. It was completely an accident, and Marisnick guesses wrong about where the ball would be.
lucroy looked like his momentum was going to take him to the back of the plate
Yep. When you watch from the birds eye view, you see Marisnick’s left leg go one way, the right leg takes him back to center and then impact. If he wanted to detonate Lucroy he goes straight forward, full speed and unloads.
I’m pretty sure this guy is Jake Marisnick based on all his posts.
Catchers are covered in gear, though JL chose not to keep his mask on for some reason. The rule was put in place to prevent very infrequent, and more infrequently serious injuries. Name 10 serious catching injuries from colllisions at the plate. Posey, Greg Olson, Ray Fosse, ? You may get to 10 but it’ll span many years of baseball, hundreds or thousands of plays. Not really a big issue and catchers who dont learn to anticipate for contact are arguably at a higher risk because it is a sport and people do collide unintentionally as well.
I got roasted for mentioning the mask a few days back. As a kid some prominent baseball schools and coaches would suggest keeping the mask on, even with a no-contact rule.
Just told my son like a week ago that taking off your mask when there could be a play at home was foolish. Showed him this video when it happened and he, an 8 yr old, spotted that Lucroy didnt have his mask on.
Nice.
I was told if I can see pitches I can see throws from the field and was told to keep mine on growing up.
As a runner I wouldn’t want to jack up the catcher with the mask on. Odds are I’m the one hurting after the collision.
Told him his job on a throw may be to block the ball to avoid it getting by. When you block balls you have your mask so it doesnt hit your face. A few very good reasons to keep it on and yes, if you cant track a throw from the outfield with a mask…you need a better mask.
Yep, throw home skips the dirt or the grass cutout. Good point.
even in football hitting someone on the head with helmet to helmet or shoulder to helmet is not allowed.
And in football there are tons of lame penalties and fines for that contact that was unintentional. Football and baseball are sports, there are plays that happen quickly and with multiple moving parts. Id say most contact to the head in both sports is unintentional and will keep happening for that reason.
they are highly trained athletes. if they can’t control your body they are out of it.
They cant control my body. I would rarely make this assumption but saying that makes me think youve just never played a sport if you believe at the speed of a game these athletes should be able to avoid any and all unintentional contact. Wow.
These people are nuts
I guess that’s fair. I miss those plays tho. I don’t like seeing guys get hurt but I do like old school baseball. That would’ve been perfectly fine 10 years ago.
hope your son plays catcher, too!
Lucroy got nailed on that play. Completely unnecessary of a hit to make. You can see him at the last second lunge toward Luc as the ball was coming. Should have been more than 2 games thats for sure
Lucroy got ‘nailed’ because he wasn’t expecting it. No catcher or second baseman expects contact anymore. THAT is the problem, not the act of getting ‘nailed’. The new rules are stupid and dangerous.
^Yep.
How many collisions has the game taken out with the rule though? Remember Posey? He was just expecting the contact and still suffered a serious injury. Here’s an idea…how about sliding feet first?
Posey was caught in poor position on that play. Catcher cannot receive a throw with one or both knees down. When you get hit on your knees, you move and your knee doesn’t.
What I do know is that rule has given us some brutal obstruction calls that have had direct impacts on games. That part has improved in recent years. To your question, we will never know.
absolutely!
This play had alex rodriguez and his imaginary white gloves all over it. In baseball there is no reason to run into the fielder who is not directly in the baseline. Case closed. Go sit for two games.
It’s really easy to pick out the comments from people that have never played game. As a former AA catcher who was obviously involved in many home plate collisions, there was nothing malice or dirty here. Just baseball, and this is part of the game. All you whiners crying dirty play are an embarrassment.
I totally agree with you. The problem is and always will be these idiotic rule changes in the first place. They have taken all the graceful athleticism out of the game at both the plate and second base. The game has been reduced to a shallow skeleton of itself.
Thank you!
The 2nd base rule has also allowed for lazy footwork around the bag (Odor). I think Marisnick could have done a lot worse if his intent was to plow Lucroy. It was a case of picking the wrong side and bad timing.
That’s great, but if you played AA ball more than five years ago it’s irrelevant. The rules have changed.
I was all for killing catchers. They were the enemy. I hated them. But the rules have changed, Even if I could play ball today, which I can’t, they can’t block me off the plate anymore and I can’t kill them.
He’s saying that because he’s been trucked before he can see there wasn’t intent on the part of Marisnick.
I watched the video a lot of times from a lot of angles. It looks to me like at the second-to-last moment, Marisnick saw the throw taking Lucroy outside the line and decided to run to the inside. Then, at the VERY last moment, Lucroy caught the ball and reestablished his position, and Marisnick, who is 6’4″ and 220 lbs, unsurprisingly could not change his momentum enough in 5 feet to avoid hitting Lucroy, so he braced for the inevitable impact and hoped for the best. This is a bad ruling, because the rule states “..the runner deviated from the path in order to initiate contact with the cather…or otherwise initiated a collision that could’ve been avoided.” I don’t think this collision could’ve been avoided without Marisnick just flat out giving up on the play, which is not an option.
To me, it was obvious head hunting. Jake Marisick never went for the plate.
Because people head hunting go into contact with their knees almost touching the ground. Good way to wind up with your nose broken by a catchers protective cup.
If the throw hadn’t, at the last second, taken Lucroy up the line, low, and inside, this play never results in injury, let alone this absurd discussion.
Then you haven’t watched the play or you are an angels fan and only believe what someone told you. Go watch it again, look at the throw, look at Lucroy.
Torre needs to retire and go away. He has almost single-handedly ruined the game with these idiotic rule changes and the on going fiasco of umpiring in the sport. You’ve had more than a great run……see ya!
Torre does not make the rules, nor does he change any.
Marisnick is not being honest. He says he was trying to slide head first. If that were the case the video would have shown it. I have seen the play from several different views that are available and he wasn’t trying to slide head first. He led with his shoulder. I don’t know any ball player that is sliding head first lead with their shoulder. Had he been truly attempting to slide head first his hands would have been extending forward parallel to the ground in a head first sliding motion. They were not. He clearly led with his shoulder. He made a poor choice and someone else suffered injury. He should have been suspended for the same time it takes Lucroy to get back playing. Marisnick could have avoided the collision and possibly been safe. Instead he lowered his shoulder and blew over Lucroy at full speed.
Exactly!! He’s lucky he only got 2 games!
Marisnick initiates his slide ten feet or more from home plate. The collision occurs five or more feet up the line. Disingenuous to claim his intent was to go high. Clearly that wasn’t the case as both Lucroy and Marisnick’s head collide three feet above the ground and six feet up the line.
If the collision had occurred the same way on top of home plate you would have a case.
He clearly starts to slide but realizes lucroy is not on the other side of the plate like he thought, so he braces himself. Also, just think how quickly it all happens
That happened to me in touch FB. I thought I had a read on the throw.. When it turned out that I was too slow, I turned for the tag.. The receiver had already turned into me. I might’ve been a foot or two away running full speed. There was nothing that was going to stop that collision.
And if Lucroy was near home you would have seen Jake sliding. He was starting his slide and Lucroy was up the line. How far back should a runner start sliding to satisfy the idiots making this argument?
As a Giants fan I hate the Posey rule.
The “Posey Rule”… which came 3 years after Posey’s injury.
If anything, it’s the Alex Avila Rule… whose daddy conveniently runs an MLB team….
Only allow feet-first slides into home. Problem solved.
Then only allow catchers to catch the ball with their barehands on plays at the plate.
Then make runners take off their cleats as they round 3rd.
I say replace third base with a trapdoor that only looks like third base.
at 3:02 on the video link, the plate is clearly blocked. catcher still waiting for the ball.
Every time there’s a discussion on this topic, i think of Jack Clark taking out Mike Scioscia back in 1985.
I have come to the conclusion that everyone is wrong but me, and that everyone is shouting but no one is listening, and that in the din my voice would not be heard, so I am going to retreat to the backyard.
Thank you.
Stop the above video link at 2:47 — the incoming throw has bounced and is in Lucroy’s glove and he is waiting to make the tag (he is totally inside the line).
Marisnick (who previously was completely outside the line) is now 2 feet inside and has changed from moving to the plate to moving towards Lucroy.
Did Marsnick realize his only chance to score was to knock the ball out of Lucroy’s glove?
There is no way Marsnick wanted Lucroy hurt, but he didn’t want to make an out either.
The ball was never in his glove, watch it again.
I think it can be argued that the reason Lucroy didn’t catch the ball is he thought he was going to get his clock cleaned..
I have nothing against JM, I don’t think he has a reputation of being a dirty player. In the heat of the game, he did something that was clearly illegal, accidental or not, and he got suspended for doing something illegal.
I personally hated sliding into catchers. Unless you push their legs out with a straight in slide, it hurts. And then even sometimes it hurts. I’m fully willing to say that JM lowered his shoulder because he didn’t want to get hurt. But it was still illegal, and I think two games is fair. Zero games would have been fair to. I wasn’t pleading that he be suspended. But he was and accidental or not, he’s still culpable for the illegal collision.
2 games is this a joke? Should be out way more. In fact i think the rule should be he should be fined as he was, but he has to set out the length of time Lucroy is out. When Lucroy comes back, than marisnick can come back. If its in 1 day then great, if its 2 weeks, then Marisnick should be out 2 weeks.
It should be black and white. Concusion = automatically out 1 week. Broken leg = automatically out 1 month etc.
At least the people who think this was intentional will be satisfied he got suspended
League is just too soft and afraid on just about everything because of the way to powerful players union and all their threats of striking. I’m not an owners guy but these full term guaranteed contracts is killing baseball.
Jake had a wide open lane to the plate on the outside, just like Lucroy is supposed to leave him. Jake instead went inside the base path, towards Lucroy, lowered his shoulder and the boom.
If it wasn’t for the wide open path to the plate, this would be a bad call. But he had an open path, he just chose not to use it and instead initiated contact.
This is the textbook type of collision and injury MLB is hoping to avoid. I’d say the same if the teams were reversed.
You wouldn’t happen to be an Angels fan, would you?
A fan of any team could see the wide open path at the back side of the plate. Lucroy was well inside of the base path.
If the roles were reversed and say, Kole Calhoun took a huge step inside the base line, away from an open path to the plate, and crushed an Astros pitcher, I’d say the same thing.
the rules are designed to avoid this collision if possible.
an Astros catcher
Well the giveaway, aside from your name, is this comment; “This is the textbook type of collision”
Nothing about this was textbook. Between Marisnick looking like a baby giraffe as he tries to cut left and right, to Marisnick rolling his shoulder and colliding with Lucroy using the back of his head/neck, the fact that Marisnick goes low enough to have his knees almost scrape the ground (conceding leverage and momentum) to the rules that stipulate the runner is out if contact is caused intentionally, to the score and inning of the game. It’s all not textbook, at all.
Marisnick also attempted to “roll” to the outside just as contact was made. 100% unintentional
Hilarious. Take off the Astros glasses and this is 100% the type of avoidable injury all fans should want to see removed from the game.
Jake had a lane. he chose not to take it. No, he deviated from his line, crossed over the base line with a big step to the left, and drilled a guy. He deserves the suspension.
The difference between me and you is I’d say the same thing no matter who turned down the clear path to the plate in and cut inside the base line.
Gator, the rules don’t care about intent. Jake probably didn’t mean to hurt Lucroy and I’ve never accused him of such.
The rule clearly states the catcher must leave a lane to the plate open, Lucroy did, and that the runner cannot deviate from his line and initiate contact, which Jake did.
That big step to the left cost Lucroy a concussion and Jake 2 games.
Insert Oldoak with some giraffe, leg dragging excuse for that huge step into contact when Lucroy’s body was inside the base line 100% of the time.
I’ll take off my Astros glasses if you lose the Angel shades. Everyone here is saying that he went after Lucroy.
I think there would’ve been contact even if he went outside. I was a catcher, we were taught to screen the runner.
I hate that Lucroy was injured, I’m sure Marisnick feels absolutely terrible.
MLB needs to specify where a catcher should receive a throw home. Meandering near the plate just leaves too much to chance
I’m not saying he went after Lucroy. I’m saying Marisnick made a sharp cut inside because he thought the throw was taking Lucroy outside the line. He cuts back, starts to lower himself to slide right after the cut. The throw takes Lucroy inside and up the line, right into Marisnick’s path.
I’m watching the the game Astros game right now (ESPN) and everyone on the broadcast is saying Marisnick didn’t intend to collide with Lucroy. They’re echoing what a lot of people on here are saying. He guessed wrong where the throw would take Lucroy, just like Marisnick said after the game.
The shades comment was for Oak. You’re being pretty reasonable.
Lucroy’s feet and body were inside the baseline at all times. As he waited for the ball, as he went to catch it, as he got hit, and as he laid there dazed.
I’m not about intent or character in this play, just facts. Jake has an open lane to score, he instead shifted inside (reason does not matter) and initiated the contact. He broke the rule.
You said: “Jake had a wide open lane to the plate on the outside, just like Lucroy is supposed to leave him. Jake instead went inside the base path, towards Lucroy, lowered his shoulder and the boom.”
“A runner attempting to score may not deviate from his direct pathway to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher”
Jake didn’t break the rule, and yes intent matters in the case of this rule. Jake didn’t alter his path to initiate contact, therefore he couldn’t have broken the rule.
Either you are completely misinterpreting what I’m saying, or you believe there was intent to take out Lucroy. I’ll try one more time.
When Marisnick takes off from third base, he runs straight down the line. He begins to favor the foul side of the line and winds up outside the line in foul territory. Unfortunately for Lucroy, his leg is in front of home plate, giving Marisnick the perception that Lucroy could easily tag Marisnick on an outside tag attempt. Marisnick has to make a split second decision (as he’s said). The moment Marisnick goes to make that decision, Lucroy leans to the left (outside). That’s exactly when you see Marisnick make that cut way back inside. At that moment, Lucroy leans way back inside and up the line to make the catch. At this point, all of Marisnick’s momentum and leverage is low and inside. All of Lucroy’s remaining momentum is low and inside. That’s when the collision occurs about five to six feet up and inside the line. Completely unintentional contact.
there’s no room for a dirty player trying to end another player’s baseball career bottom line marisnick violated the Buster Posey rule
You can’t pause a slo-mo video and apply this kind of analysis. The real-time video is the only way. If you watch the way Lucroy tried to catch the ball, he kinda looked like he was going to shove backwards and as Marisnick cuts and realizes that Lucroy wasn’t going to step back, he kind of rolls his shoulder and looks like he tried to lessen the impact as much as he could. If he was trying to blow him up he wouldn’t have hung his head immediately and crawled over to him. It’s worth a suspension, simply because it’s hard to tell intent from a video, but I just don’t believe, based on how hard he could have hit him, that he was looking to blow anyone up.
I’m with you on the contact. Looks to me like a split second “oh crap, we’re going to hit” and Jake protected himself a bit by delivering rather than receiving the contact.
the suspension comes from the fact Jake stepped inside the base line, into Lucroy, and away from the clear path to the outside he was given.
He simply steps right instead of left and a guy avoids a concussion. Its that easy. Oh, and the run scores. Better for everybody.
Oh no, he’s suspended for 2 games. I guess the Astros will just have to start Springer…..
Oh wait….
I absolutely despise the astros…but I don’t agree with this at all. It was a clean old fashion play. Lucroy moved back inside and you could see marisnek cut inside. Sucks he got hurt, but I don’t think it was intentional or malicious. It’s old fashion baseball. MLB stop watering the game down.
How can you despise a team who, other than Osuna, has no controversial players on their staff?
Osuna is clearly enough. I’d honestly turn in my tickets if the Angels brought in a woman beater.
I had no problem rooting for the Astros over the dreaded Dodgers and Roid Sux, but I couldn’t do it last year. Osuna on the mound trying to close out a game was just too much and I turned it off.
Can’t say it was there finest hour. Kinda shocked myself, but I’m a fan of over 30 years.
It would be tough. Honestly, I’d probably turn in my tickets. We all have lines, and that’s a big one with me.
But appreciate the honesty.
He should be suspended as long as Lucroy is out w his injury. A total BS intent-to-injure move by that goon.
Torre thought it was unintentional, yet suspended Marisnick 2 games. What BS. No way Jake should have received a suspension. All this because the Angels made noise and that loud mouth catcher from St.Louis tweeted.
What about a fine along with a suspension for a non-malicious hit?
He shouldnt get any kind of suspension at all.. it was not intentional at all.
the slide at home rule is so incredibly stupid.
That was not a slide.
Thank you Joe Torre!
I think that folks have in mind that this is like Rose – Fosse where Fosse never moved and Rose blew right through him. Looking from behind home plate – Lucroy did not stay in one place (well maybe for the last second before the collision) he moved from partially in foul territory and drifted into fair territory a few feet from where he began.
If Marisnick was targeting him – he would have gone straight down the baseline to the plate. It was unfortunate that Marisnick went inside and then Lucroy almost instantaneously moved that way too.
Even though I believed this happened accidentally, I was expecting something like a 5 game suspension. A two game suspension tells me that they took into account the physical fact that guys (not named Barry Sanders) can’t stop or change direction on a dime. I hope that Lucroy comes back soon and in good shape and I hope no idiots go head hunting for Marisnick.
If Torre would have thought this was intentional, he’d thrown more than a 2 game suspension. This was done just to look good and appease the Angels and their fans. I bet he knocks it down to 1 on the appeal.
I fail to see how a 2 game suspension is fair to the Angels. They lose a starter for at least a couple weeks and the Astros lose a scrub for 2 games. MLB has to come up with a better formula to balance the books.
Our “scrub” is better than your “starter”. Jake is a premium defensive player with some pretty good pop playing part-time. Lucroy is done as a catcher, his defensive and offensive game has deteriorated steadily last few years.
Glad to see they gave him a suspension. 2 games seem light but better than nothing. He clearly had a lane to go with and chose to create contact. The result is my Halos are with out Lucroy for some time and he has this to deal with. You could tell how bad Jake felt but still….like other consequences you need to understand there is a right and wrong way to deal with it. Hopefully my Halos can get by all this. It sure was the toughest road trip for a team I have seen so far. Wishing Lucroy and Tommy a quick recovery…
asdfgh2 hours ago
Well if you read the comments section than that’s a disaster of humanity. when middle aged men act like trolls or pretend.
Relax Nancy. That’s President Dotard to you.
BS. Did you even watch the play before writing this? Full speed and he adjusted last second to Lecroy adjusting last second. Lucroy positioned his body towards the outside of the plate to attempt to catch the ball. The ball bounced out of his glove before the collision, which you failed to notice while writing. Jake adjusted to the inside but Lucroy froze in his catch attempt and blocked the lane 3-4 ft down the line. Jake ducked his head to prevent himself from getting injured and slammed into Lucroy. No rule is going to prevent accidents like this. It happened, it will happen again. It sucks but there was no intent.
The only outcome is now the runner must barrel into the catcher face first to prevent getting suspended because he was suspended for lowering his shoulder.
Lucroy did no such thing as “blocking the lane” otherwise without the ball by rule he is guilty of OBSTRUCTION and the runner would be allowed to score.
Really don’t see how you can look at that replay and say Lucroy blocked the lane….there is no lane…the runner simply is not suppose to be where he was…..Lucroy was exactly where he could be and not be guilty of obstruction.
And his stiff arm to the head is just another example of him steadying himself for the collision which he caused.
IMVHO, I don’t think it was intentional. It looked to me like Lucroy was crossing the line into foul territory to grab the throw. And that Marisnick was going headfirst slide into home on what would be Lucroy’s right-hand side. But Lucroy stopped his momentum putting him just inside the base path. Marisnik had about a 1/10th of a second to react.
FWIW, it isn’t like Lucroy was planted by HP and Marisnik just decided to run him over. Lucroy was moving on the play.
Past that, I don’t understand the punishment. If it was intentional, it should be 14 days or more for an extremely dangerous play. If it wasn’t intentional, there probably shouldn’t be a punishment.
Joe….really…..there was nothing to see as far as Lucroy crossing the line into foul territory…he was totally justified exactly where he was….according to rule the runner must give way to the defensive player trying to make a play otherwise it is INTERFERENCE on the offense. Of course it was intentional on Marisnicks part to jar the ball lose if Lucroy caught it and tried making a tag…it probably wasn’t intentional for him to harm Lycroy the way he did but it is indeed difficult to separate the two issues.
It doesn’t matter how much time Marisnick had to decide….he knows the rules and made his decision which was obvious when he crossed over the fair line into the playing field to make contact…..watch the replay….contact was made IN the Field of play not on the line or outside the line…..he simply isn’t supposed to be there.
some astros fans claimed that’s how he normally slides. they say anything without even thinking!
so is MLB going to start suspending/fining pitchers who accidentally hit a batter and break their hand? after all, the ball had other clear paths to the plate. it’s a mockery to suspend someone while admitting that the official stance is that it was not intentional.
So now players are getting suspended for playing hard? Was Lucroy blocking the plate or the runners path? If he was he should not go unpunished.
This was CLEARLY an accident.
Where was Rizzo’s suspension?
Rizzo has never made a bad play in his life. His play was clean too. The padres catcher wasn’t even hurt.
1. Commissioner’s office literally called him the next day to inform him that he had violated the Posey Rule.
2. Hedges was removed from the game and didn’t play in the following two games.
He missed one game and he blocked the plate. Rizzo was not called suspended or fined.
Hedges was taken out for precautions. he had to put on his shirt. That collision was as clean as it gets with Rizzo without violating the Posey rule.
I cant help it that Austin Hedges didn’t want to throw dirt on it.
No he didn’t block the plate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look at the instant replay. Rizzo clearly had a lane. He chose to run inside and collide with Hedges.
Again, the commissioner’s office literally called Rizzo the next day to inform him that he had indeed violated the Posey rule, so it isn’t even a matter of your opinion or mine.
Again – where Lucroy was when he got hit was not the same spot he was at when Marisnick chose to go inside. Saying Marisnick meant to dive into Lucroy is the same as saying that Lucroy meant to get into a spot where he would block Marisnick from the plate. I don’t believe that either of those things were the intent of either player. Marisnick went inside when Lucroy was partially in foul and partially in fair territory thinking he would move back into foul territory to catch the ball on the bounce. Lucroy moved in to try and short hop it and they ended up in the same spot. If Lucroy had been standing 3 feet inside fair territory when Marisnick swerved inside – then you could say he was targeting him, but he was not there until they met.
I think if the baseball guys in the league office thought it was intentional Marisnick would be gone for 10 games, but they did not. T
I’m a Cardinals fan so I have no care either way as far as the teams involved. Just saw a video at full and slow motion and it seems pretty clear that Marisnick was going to the inside and Lucroy started to the inside as well right at the same time. There was nothing he could do as he was going in head first. Yeah he blew him up, but it seemed it was a case of “him or me” at that point and anyone is gonna protect themselves from getting hurt.
This doesn’t deserve a suspension as much as I hate to say it being someone that has met lucroy multiple times, the play was completely fine he was just trying to get to the plate he didn’t ever out of the way to target lucroy or anything they were both just doing their jobs
Unfortunately the 21st century fan wants and needs “justice” which means that MLB suspends Marisnick.
Full disclosure. I’m an Astros fan.
I also watched the game live and the replay dozens of times in both real time slow motion.
Marisnick is looking at Lucroy. Lucroy is looking at the ball and standing with his left foot right at the front corner of the plate (right on the foul line) giving Marisnick the outside lane.
Marisnick runs inside (mistake). As Lucroy receives the ball, he leans left (outside) but never steps. Marisnick makes an inside move. Lucroy then immediately moves inside to where Marisnick is running (still not looking at him).
At that point, Marisnick could not avoid contact. He had to either slide head first into the catcher (arms, hands, and fingers leading into catching gear) or pull back and lead with his shoulder protecting these vulnerable parts.
I feel like he did the only thing he could in the last seconds.
However, the outside of the plate was open the entire time and he chose to run inside instead, despite looking right at Lucroy and knowing where he set up.
I hate it because I feel there was no intent, and in my opinion he is genuinely sorry and is a clean player and good guy, but I feel the suspension is deserved under the current rules.
In my opinion his mistake was the first 75 feet, running inside towards the inside of the plate, not the final 15 feet where that mistake doomed the play giving him no way to avoid the collision.
Lets say there is accidentally helmet to helmet contact in football. It’s still a penalty, it’s still illegal and the player is still going to get tossed.
He broke a baseball law, intentional or not, and he suffered a two game penalty. Which is more than fair.
What can’t be disputed is he lowered a shoulder. He didn’t bear hug him. He didn’t slow down. He lowered a shoulder and he caused injury.
Obviously he could have done more to prevent that collision. And that’s even saying it’s possible that his going inside the line was completely innocent.
The reasoning by Mr. Torre is poor… he either intended to do it or he didn’t. Torre’s explanation makes it sound like Marisnick is being suspended for something beyond his control.
That’s like my boss saying “Hey, I know you weren’t late to work but the time-clock wasn’t working that day, so I’m going to write you up.”
It’s nothing like that. Mr. Torre isn’t attaching malice to the play, but is still sentencing him for a crime.
There is NO QUESTION Marisnick made an illegal collision (it wasn’t a slide). He’s being punished for breaking a baseball law. If Torre thought there was malice, it would likely be a longer suspension.
The way Torre is quoted though, it sounds like Marisnick is being suspended for an accidental illegal collision.
Did you miss my point? Accident or not, it’s still illegal. Think helmet to helmet contact in football. I think you get automatically thrown out of the game, accident or not.
I got your point. Just isn’t stated well by Torre.
Oh well, I just miss baseball. Thanks.
I’m a huge Angel fan and I would have been fine with no suspension. I also don’t think two is a big deal.
I also understand why running inside the line might have been innocent. And I understand why lowering his shoulder might have been innocent. The reason you lower your shoulder is you don’t want to get flipped. No one but JM knows why he lowered his shoulder and why he went inside the line. Everyone else is speculating.
Hopefully it was an innocent mistake. For that he got a two game suspension. It’s baseball, stuff happens.
Whoever thinks it was on purpose is a moron and hasn’t watched the play or how it unfolded or know anything about anything.
Lucroy’s momentum was carrying him toward the outside of the line thus Marisnick seeing his body going that way broke into his slide on the inside of the line – most likely to tag home plate with his hand as EVERYONE DOES NOW.
UNFORTUNATELY the throw carried Lucroy back inside resulting in a collision with Marisnick who was ALREADY breaking into his slide running full speed.
I’d love to see you dweebs run full speed and try and change your direction. If you can then give Marisnick a call and ask for his paycheck.
Marisnick can be seen trying to “roll” outside just as contact happens. This was 100% unintentional IMO, but the big thing here is Lucroy positioned himself in the basepath. Whether or not he was on the inside or outside of the foul line he was clearly intending to block the plate. What happens if Marisnick goes outside and Lucroy mirrors him? The result could have been the same and we’d be right here saying he should’ve went inside.
The rule needs to dictate where the catcher will stand while awaiting a throw. As it stands now it’s written too loosely which is leading to these incidences. Tell the catcher they will stand either in front of or behind home plate and once they possess the ball they can move to block.
You know it wasn’t intentional?
It was an illegal collision (he didn’t slide) and he lowered his shoulder. But somehow you know what was in the mind of Marisnick.
One person knows and that’s Marisnick, You don’t know. It’s hillarious that you think you do.
Do you know if it was intentional?
I know lowering the shoulder was intentional. What I don’t know if going inside the line and going after Lucroy was intentional. No one knows. He did not have to lower the shoulder.
No one knows if he went after him or not. No one but JM. . JM doesn’t have a bad reputation, so I don’t think it was planned. But regardless, it was still illegal.
Agree illegal and deserves the fine and suspension and I don’t think he was trying to hurt Lucroy. I played baseball until I was 25 and taking out the catcher like this was exactly how you were taught to try and score. I don’t want anybody hurt and maybe I’m old school but a close play at the plate with a game on the line with a runner ramming into a catcher to try and lodge the ball free was an exciting moment in games. Especially with the catcher on his back putting his glove up in the air with the ball after the collision. But I get it’s a rule now and it was broken in this case and of course the player’s health and teams investment in its players are what’s important. But I do I miss growing up watching Bench and Boone and others in these types of plays.
I’ve taken out my fair share of catchers. When a catcher tried to block me off the plate, I went after him with all the venom I could muster. Both plays are illegal now. I have no love lost for catchers.
JM made an illegal slide . Anyone who claims to know it was with or without malice is only fooling themselves. The fact is, no one knows.
I’ve never heard of JM being accused of being a dirty player, so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Off topic, how long have you been an Angels fan? I think I’ve read before you were a long time Angels fan. My parents have had season tickets since the 70s, I basically grew up at the Big A. Anyways wanted to give a shout out to you.
I grew up idolizing Jim Fregosi. In 64 i couldn’t wait for Dean Chance to take the mound. My first game was watching the Angels in Chavez Ravine.
In 1970 i listen to Clyde Wrights no hitter and Alex Johnson win a batting crown.
I watched the “Andy” game from first pitch to last. hit July 9th, 1971. (and I didn’t have to look that up) The Angels are part of me. And in the famous words of Jim Bouton.
“You spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball and in the
end it turns out that it was the other way around”
Wow that’s awesome!!! You are truly a lifelong fan. I was just a little tyke in the mid 70s when I became a fan, my idols were Nolan Ryan and Bobby Grich. You witnessed things only my dad told me about. Life landed me out of OC and into the IE, fortunately I caught onto the Lake Elsinore Storm. I enjoy watching the prospects more so than going to the Big A now a days. I never miss the 66ers and it connects me more to the team watching the Angels bringing up guys I watched in the early stages of their careers. Anyways tip of the halo to you and always like reading your point of view on the team.
Nolan Ryan and Bobby Grich. Two GREAT choices.
Where did I say “know”? Excuse me if I didn’t put out that “this is my opinion and it doesn’t express the thoughts or opinions of Jake Marisnick or Johnathon Lucroy”.
We should all just post that disclaimer before posting a comment. Problem solved.
Gator, was that to me?
dubz
Whoever thinks it was on purpose is a moron.
My response is to dubz. Someone can think it wasn’t on purpose, and someone can think it was. No one knows. Both sides have valid points of view.
It happened fast, JM made a wrong move and JL was following years of training to screen the plate.
JM is appealing, I think two games is reasonable but the fine is a bit much. If he was being malicious sure, but Torre said he saw no intent. Just bad move that caused a collision.
In today’s game you can still not slide and lower your shoulder to take out a catcher. This can occur if the catcher receives the ball and is not conceding a lane. Contact is not illegal in all circumstances.
What happened in Houston was the opposite of that, and was a complete accident.
As a man that said hello and took a pic of him and the lady, I say fine man. He is a good player contrary to some comments. Him being disciplined is another stroke from MLB towards Astros. This all seems foolish from MLB and the posters that call for the like suspension.
definitely looked like Jake dove into him, but also Johnathan left him a narrow path to the plate. tough call i wouldn’t want to make it if i had too i’d probably make a similar one, if there is a shot of Jake’s eyes the last for moments of the play as hes coming in, could probably get a better idea of his intent
If there was no collision and Jake was out i’d defiantly argue there was barely a lane before the ball got there, especially at that stage of the game.. but i guess doesn’t matter.. that’s not what happened.
George brett and goose gossage have said it best. Millenial baseball has turned into a bunch of pansies.
those oldies or you cannot play now.
No clue what that means
Marisnick is lucky to get only 2 games, I would have suspended him 5 games. Out of respect for Lucroy he should just take his punishment and move on. Don’t make a bigger deal out of this than needs to be.
Somebody made a great point on this before.
If Torre acknowledges that he feels there was no intend, but suspends him anyway then :
How is it different from the pitcher who pitches inside, misses and hits a batter, injuring him.
They are both plays that cause injury by making a bad decision without intent of malice.
How soon before pitchers are suspended for hitting batters even when MLB feels there was no intent.
How is it different? It’s not baseball illegal to have a pitch get away from you, it is illegal to go out of the running path to collide with a catcher, intentional or not.
They are not comparable.
To nymetsking: What would you think of installing a subway turnstile 10 feet up the third base line? Runners would have to stop and use their MetroCards to get through it and proceed to home plate, but all their momentum would be lost, making this world a better place for catchers.
How about add to the rule that prohibits catchers from positioning themselves on the 3B side of home plate entirely, until they are in possession of the ball.
You have seemed reasonable? Seriously?
Lucroy is trying to catch a thrown baseball. He’s not trying to catch and plant his shin guard like Posey was trying to do. LIke almost all other catchers did prior to the rule change.
JM, intentional or not went out of his way to plow into a defenseless player trying to catch a baseball. And if Lucroy doesn’t hear footsteps I bet he catches the baseball. And if JM would have zigged instead of zagged, I bet he would have been safe.
JM chose the wrong path, lowered his shoulder, hurt a defenseless player, and got suspended for two games. I don’t know why people have an issue with that.
If this was five years ago, I would have said fine, but five years ago Lucroy would have planted his shin guard and gotten low. and wouldn’t have been defenseless.
I would also require all base runners to wear flip-flops.
Nah. Wouldn’t work. I imagine turnstile jumping is still a thing. The runner would then be airborne and come down hard on the catcher. I’d think maybe a LePetomane Memorial toll plaza would work. All those dimes would slow the runner down.
Somewhere in hell, Ty Cobb is laughing at this.