With the Tigers mired in a rebuild and closer Shane Greene in his second-last year of team control, the right-hander ranks as one of baseball’s most obvious trade candidates heading into the July 31 deadline. While little has gone right this year for Detroit, whose 29-62 record stands as the game’s second worst, Greene has been one of the team’s few bright lights. That’s especially encouraging for the Tigers considering they may be on the verge of dealing the All-Star to a contender.
A Tiger since they acquired him from the Yankees in a noteworthy three-team trade entering the 2015 season, Greene’s tenure in the Motor City has been a mixed bag. He was subpar in his first year with the Tigers while mostly working as a starter, and has proved inconsistent as a reliever since then. Greene’s career has continued its up-and-down trajectory this season, but 2019 has checked in on the overwhelmingly positive side in terms of results. The 30-year-old owns a near-flawless 1.06 ERA in 34 innings, during which he has converted 22 of 24 saves. Greene has racked up those numbers on a reasonable $4MM salary, which should only add to his appeal for reliever-needy contenders.
Chris McCosky of the Detroit News reported last week that interested clubs view Greene as more a setup man than a closer, despite the success he has enjoyed putting a bow on rare Detroit wins this year.
The question is: Would an acquiring team be getting a real difference-maker in Greene? His ERA says yes, as do Greene’s 9.26 K/9, 2.65 BB/9, career-high 53.4 percent groundball rate and improved swinging-strike and contact rates. Furthermore, thanks in part to a personal-best 15.2 percent infield fly mark, Greene’s hard-contact rate against has tumbled from 37.5 percent last year to 27.3 this season. According to FanGraphs, just 11 relievers have yielded a lower hard-hit percentage than Greene.
Statcast only places Greene in the league’s 49th percentile in the hard-hit department, though it assigns him far better reviews in the expected slugging percentage (67th), expected weighted on-base average (80th) and expected batting average (86th) categories. It also indicates Greene has made changes to his pitch mix compared to last year, having upped his cutter usage by almost 6 percent and thrown his slider 4 percent less. Greene’s slider hasn’t produced poor results, but his cutter and his main pitch – a sinker – have been particularly tough on opposing hitters. Thus far, they’ve managed sub-.200 wOBAs against the two. Those offerings have helped Greene stymie same-handed batters, who have logged a pitiful .170 wOBA against him, and also keep lefties at bay (.271).
As effective as Greene has been in 2019, there are some red flags accompanying his performance. For one, his velocity isn’t quite where it was in 2018. Beyond that, it appears Greene has benefited greatly from luck. ERA estimators FIP (3.66), xFIP (4.04) and SIERA (3.62) paint Greene as something closer to a useful reliever than a a true shutdown option, and the .179 batting average on balls in play he has surrendered to opposing hitters likely won’t hold. The number’s a whopping 125 points below Greene’s career norm (.304). Allowing less impactful contact has helped Greene sustain that figure to this point, granted, but it’s nevertheless a good bet to climb as the season progresses. Likewise, Greene’s 86.1 percent strand rate – which is a lofty 17-plus points higher than his usual (69.0) – may regress toward his lifetime mean over the next couple months. Plus, although Greene’s aforementioned xwOBA (.282) is among the league’s best, it’s still 66 points higher than the real wOBA he has given up (.216).
It’s clear there are no shortage of reasons for optimism and pessimism in regards to Greene’s 2019 output. It’s also obvious Greene’s a capable major league reliever, though, and with another year of arbitration control left, he’ll be in demand around the deadline.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
DarkSide830
probably just as good as his numbers the last few years show. talented, but dangerously inconsistent.
BlueSkyLA
Before this year his performance was mediocre. Why it has gone off the charts this year and whether it’s sustainable is the question.
Pickle_Britches
He’s average, Having a good year so far, but I wouldn’t count on it for much longer, just like his teammate Boyd. Can’t count on guys with no track records and inconsistency.
Melchez
Come pickles… you hate onboys, you hate on greene… are you a Yankee fan? Upset Cruz the tigers keep knocking you out of the playoffs?,
Pickle_Britches
Nope by far a Yankee fan. I’m a Giants fan. I’m not hating on Greene. I said he’s avg and having a good year. He’s just inconsistent. Bad year, good year, bad year, good year.
Melchez
Greene, like Boyd is a decent pitcher. Not great. No stopper. No ace. They have a skill set that might help a playoff team. If not, they will be just fine playing for Detroit.
zappaforprez
Pickle brings up Boyd whenever he can. He’s not even good at being a troll.
Pickle_Britches
Just reminding scrubmuffins like you what’s reality their fella
robluca21
They knocked the yanks out twice 2012 and 2005 or 2006 I believe.
Dont understand hownthats a reoccurring thing
Strike Four
” Can’t count on guys with no track records and inconsistency.” but both those guys have those things???
Pickle_Britches
No chit lol
Dustin Michels
I actually agree with Pickles for once (on Greene that is not Boyd). Greene is having a real strong year and would be a nice piece for a contender but next year might not be as good..
its_happening
Riding that horse still. Boyd isn’t getting the haul people think.
Stat_head
Then Boyd isn’t going anywhere. Tigers have no need to trade him if their price isn’t met.
BobSacamano
Kind of like Randy Johnson in his early years?
its_happening
About 7 inches and 7 mph difference between early 90’s Randy Johnson and today’s Matt Boyd.
The Einheri
That’s what she said.
davidkaner
Trade him & get a bat with upside. Someone needs to have a reliable arm out of the bullpen & regardless of his historical numbers, he’s having a great year so you trade for him & hope it stays the same. He’s been underused because of the Tigers rarely having a lead so his arm is in great shape & you can ride him a lot in August & September.
Ryan Barnes
I know it’s not part of the story above, but Matt Holliday has joined the OSU cowboys as an assistant coach. Might be it for his playing days.
ntorsky
What impact does his velocity have on his ability to get outs?
aamatho18
lol have you been living under a rock?
echozulu88
Higher the velocity, usually increases chances of getting outs (less time for the batter to react). So instead of missing the ball completely or just being late, the batter has a better chance of squaring the ball up or at least fouling it off. Plus if his velocity is down, that usually points to some underlying cause. Look at his numbers listed that point to some luck so batters might actually be getting a better bat on the ball but just are hitting it right to defenders which likely regress to the mean. Had Greene’s velocity been back to his normal level then maybe those batted balls are Ks or weak contact.
Stat_head
His velocity is simply back to what it was when he was a starter. If you look at the annual numbers his velocity suddenly increased when he moved to the pen. Velocity is only effective with control. Hitters can hit 95 mph when they know the pitcher needs to throw a strike. Greene backed off to regain control and it worked. Not mentioned in the analysis is that he has significantly increased his first pitch strike rate. Previously he had issues with getting behind in the count and then getting hurt.
ntorsky
Greinke averages like 88 on his fastball and he’s great at getting people out. I just don’t think there’s a direct correlation.
Questionable_Source
Not as much as the spreadsheet crowd would have you believe. Throwing off the hitter’s timing and the location of the pitches are just as important (and probably more important) as average fastball velocity. It sounds like someone taught Greene how to pitch. His top end fastball velocity probably didn’t change from last year. You are allowed to simply not throw it as hard as you possibly can, though. He can back it down 5-6 MPH and really throw off the hitter’s timing. He’s throwing the same pitch (same grip, same motion, same spin) but at different speeds. That’s why he has a 1.06 ERA with a lower average fastball velocity. He stopped throwing and started pitching.
DTD
You nailed it. I’ll take a pitcher that can change speeds and locate over a hard thrower every single time. Speed doesn’t matter if you can’t locate it, there’s no movement, and you can’t change speeds off of it.
robluca21
Jesus christ…
Strike Four
Sheldon Neuse for Greene who says no
Pickle_Britches
Corey Ray for Greene
bencole
You won’t get Ray for Greene. Maybe Neuse
Dustin Michels
I as a Tiger fan so no thank you. Ray is overrated as a prospect imo
bencole
Yeah he is overrated as a prospect. I may be the low guy on Ray. But he’s a legit prospect, at least top 100ish, which is more than they’ll get for Greene
Chives
Greene to Dodgers for Josiah Gray and Christian Santana. And as always, I will throw in Castellanos as I do with all my trades. Just take him. Please.
Pickle_Britches
C’mon man he’s a beast lol
Chives
I still can’t understand how that guy is owned in 79% of my fantasy leagues
bencole
No way LAD moves Gray for Greene
frank_costanza
How good is any reliever really? There’s only a handful of consistently dominant relievers. They’re the most fickle athletes in any sport on a year by year basis.
DVail1979
how about place kickers in the NFL?
jvent
Does the tigers need a 1b (Miggy should be a DH) how about Dom Smith and Matz for Greene and Boyd the Mets need a rp and a lefty sp
Dustin Michels
Huh?? Did you say Boyd as well??
No thanks. The Mets traded away the prospect that would get Boyd in the off season.
GarryHarris
Miggy will DH for the remainder of his career.
In one of DDs rare bad trades, Shane Greene came to DET via the 3-way Robbie Ray DET-Didi Gregorius ARI-Shane Greene NYY trade. He was promising in one start then terrible the next three. Now, in his 2nd year as the CL, He’s having a break-out year… He’s having a great season on the very worst team in MLB. On another team with at least average defense, I think he’s even better. Greene was a SP so, he can be used more than he has been in DET this season.
its_happening
Add 1 more prospect on the Mets side and that’s a fair deal. Matz isn’t great and Detroit would be dealing for upside in Smith.
robluca21
Why would the tigers take back major league ready pieces when they dont plan on contending for another 5 years when matz and Smith will be at or near free agency
robluca21
The tigers would never trade boyd alone for those 2 he will command a top 50 prospect , 2 organizational top 30s and a lottery ticket or 2 in a ball or lower
bencole
Lol you couldn’t get one if these guys for Greene and Castellanos. You couldn’t even get one of the first two for Boyd and Greene.
Pickle_Britches
Greene has 4 er 4hr this season. So 4 solo Jack’s are his only earned runs given up That’s pretty impressive.
Dustin Michels
He has been fortunate some imo. He hangs his slider to much for my taste but overall is dependable to get the job done most of the time.
GarryHarris
Every pitcher in MLB is giving up more HRs than before.
jbigz12
4 hrs aren’t the issue. The fact that they’ve been 4 solo shots is the fortunate part.
RicoD
He’s not “fortunate” he is allowing less people on and therefore decreasing his chances of giving up a multi-run HR.
Dustin, not sure what your taste is for hanging sliders but he’s fairing pretty well. If he hangs it too much, what does the rest of the MLB pitchers do for your liking since he has the lowest ERA out of any pitcher with regular use.
Rich Hill’s Elbow
He’s good, but not good enough to be worth a Vazquez/Yates type of return, although Greene should be able to net Detroit a couple of toolsy players like Josh Lowe and Lucius Fox from Tampa Bay.
bencole
You might get one of those guys, maybe. Not both though.
jbigz12
One, sure. Fox for Greene makes sense for Detroit. They don’t have a 2B or a SS right now. Fox could fill that role. Paying Shane Greene 10 million bucks next year doesn’t do anything for them. Fox + a younger lotto ticket (a 17-18 year old like Cashner was dealt for.)
Dustin Michels
Solid and fair imo
Ejoey
How about Brujan?
bencole
Obviously no way
jorge78
I’ve always wondered, is strand rate the runners you inherit and create and let in? What if you leave and another pitcher lets them in? Or is it just the runners you allow and let in?
BlueSkyLA
It’s the baserunners a pitcher inherits when he enters the game, and doesn’t allow to score. Kind of a silly stat, really. It’s meant I suppose to be better than ERA to evaluate relievers since they aren’t charged with an earned run if they allow an inherited runner to score, but it doesn’t mean much. I think WHIP is the first stat to look at for relievers.
jbigz12
Strand rate? As in left on base percentage?
library.fangraphs.com/pitching/lob/
I just re-read that part of the article and saw the strand rate listed. You definitely aren’t correct, Blue Sky. The link I posted above is.
I’m not sure what you’re describing up there. That sounds a lot more like an inherited runner stat. Which I’ve definitely never heard referred to as a Strand Rate. And I don’t believe anyone on this site does. When you hear it or see it on a Fangraphs page it refers to that link.
BlueSkyLA
Yes, I know, Strand Rate and Left on Base Rate are different names the same thing. The point I was trying to make is that those stats include runners the pitcher inherits who he allows to score, and ERA does not (at least that’s the way I understand it). But you are right in that I confused the issue by saying it only includes inherited baserunners. That would be Inherited Runs Scored, a seldom cited stat, and probably for good reason.
Some Kinda Wanderful
What would it take for the Rays to get Green? How about Green and Castellanos?
Ejoey
Sanchez,Brujan and McClanahan.
GarryHarris
Either LHP Brendan McKay or OF Jesus Sanchez plus 1B Nate Lowe… Something similar. The Tigers need corner IFs, OFs and always pitching.
jbigz12
Lmao going to be some upset tigers fans within the next 12 days.
RicoD
McKay is not going anywhere and Jesus is untouchable. Nate Lowe may be available in some type of package though
bencole
You couldn’t get close to any one of those guys in a trade. You probably couldn’t get one of those guys for Boyd and Greene together.
bencole
And Castellanos is virtually worthless
T-Dawg
He would instantly become the best arm in the bullpen if he was traded to Boston!
GarryHarris
Unfortunately, the BoSox don’t match up with the Tigers as trade partners. The best Red Sox prospects are at low levels; Tigers want MLB near ready.
bencole
You do realize that Greene isn’t bringing back a top 100 prospect, or even close, right? So everyone matches up with Detroit here, it’s just a matter of who has the best offer.
tharrie0820
Greene has saved 80% of the tigers win? lolololooooool
sergefunction
Tiger fans are really upset with Pickle Britches, Detroit’s new Public Enemy No. 1.
The Yankees were suddenly and publicly enamored with Matthew Boyd’s spin rate. The Late Al Avila worked his usual magic and bamboozled the Bombers into parting with Gleyber Torres. That all changed at the last second when, as a regular part of his due diligence program, Brian Cashman gathered intel from Pickle, his go-to MLBTR commenter.
Now, no Gleyber for you, Tiger fans. They all know who to blame.