As the Red Sox continue to hover just out of postseason position, but well shy of striking distance in the division, the organization’s outlook has been a topic of keen interest in Boston. Without the backstop of an August trade period, the upcoming trade deadline has taken on increased significance for the defending champs.
Skipper Alex Cora has continued to emphasize the need for urgency from the men in uniform. As MLB.com’s Ian Browne reports, Cora has now acknowledged the possibility that the club may not be in a strong buying position when it comes time to make a final call in one week’s time.
“The front office has a job to do,” says Cora. “Obviously our goals are set to win the World Series. If it doesn’t look that way and they go somewhere else and take another approach, you’ve got to respect that. At the end, we have to perform and we have to win games.”
There has been some chatter of a minor sell-off, though it seems quite difficult to imagine that taking place with the Boston club just two games out of postseason position and still laden with talent. But it remains to be seen how hard the front office will be able to push to improve, with a realistic assessment of the likelihood of a repeat crown necessarily weighing in the balance of how much young talent and/or future payroll capacity can be sacrificed to improve the present active roster.
Superstar Mookie Betts is emblematic of the frustrating Sox’ season to this point. He romped through 2018 but has been merely very good this year. As Christopher Smith of MassLive.com covers, Betts suggeests there’s nothing to do but keep grinding.
“Just like I may not be able to have that type of MVP season every year, well, how many teams have amazing seasons like that every year?” Betts queries. “So this year has new challenges that we have to go about and accept it.”
If the Sox elected to blow things up, Betts would be the club’s biggest trade chip. But that’s exceptionally unlikely. True, Betts has generally not seemed inclined to pursue an extension, which certainly weighs into the considerations from a team perspective. But it’s all but impossible to imagine a scenario where it makes sense for a thriving Sox franchise to part with such a talent when it controls him for one more season.
Plus, there are still scenarios where Betts ends up spending his entire career in Boston — even if it comes after a trip onto the open market. He emphasized in his comments how much he loves playing for the Sox.
“It’s been nothing but amazing here,” he says. “Just because you go to free agency doesn’t mean you don’t want to be somewhere. It’s just a part of the business.”
While Betts has declined persistent extension overtures, the opposite was true for righty Rick Porcello. As he approaches free agency, the thirty-year-old hurler is now mired in his worst season in the big leagues, with a 5.61 ERA through 110 2/3 innings. As Rob Bradford of WEEI.com reports, Porcello is choosing to focus on the things he can control right now rather than dwelling on what has gone wrong or what the future holds.
From a team perspective, Porcello says, “it’s not going to be the same journey every year and this is our path right now.” Rather than comparing to the club’s blessed 2018 path, he says, the club should “focus on the positives and focus on moving forward and what we can do with the remaining games we have left, that’s where all the energy should be.” Those words translate to Porcello’s personal situation as well, as the righty explains and Bradford explores in great detail. Porcello says he isn’t worried about future possibilities that aren’t even yet clear, emphasizing that he doesn’t “think about the contract stuff anymore.”
Porcello seemingly summed things up, for himself and the team: “You play enough baseball you start to realize it’s so much wasted energy thinking about if we’re going to get a player, am I going to get traded, what’s going to happen, are we still trying to win? I have one priority right now and that’s getting my [stuff] right to get guys out. That’s it.”
Sounds like they’ve thrown in the towel already based on some of those quotes,.
No quotes in there that suggest that. Cora mentioned wanting to win a WS, Betts mentioned a different path, and Porcello mentioned getting his stuff right.
Maybe he’s reading some tea leaves.
Or smoking those leaves. Certainly this is not what was expected but they are just games out of hosting the wild card. I’m not conceding the pennant either but they have to become consistent and in control of the wild card before looking up at NY. Those were honest quotes.
We need to get consistent playoff-level production from 3 of our SPs to have a chance against the NYY or Astros. If Sale, Price, and ERod are pitching to their capabilities, I have no fear of starting the playoffs in NY.
Red Sox need pitching.
Trade Betts to the Braves in a package for some of their pitching, some combination of wright anderson allard gohara wentz weigel wilson etc.
Idk JD Martinez contract details but id offer him and cash to the rays for a package built around baz and mcclanahan, have to include a good amount of cash.
lofl
If the Sox were to get a package for Betts, it would start with Kyle Wright, but would have to include Pache as well for a future OF replacement, especially if they shop JD Martinez as well. I don’t think JBJ has a long-term hold on CF either. Only Benintendi is solidified at that point. They have too many win-now contracts to not demand Pache.
But Maybe Pache, Wright and Anderson? Would be a very strong return and would make the Braves instant favorites to win the NL East.
That’s a lot to give up though… I wonder if long-term the Braves wouldn’t be better off holding onto their crop.
Also note, the Red Sox don’t exactly have a great history of raising their own pitchers, which makes acquiring pitching prospects risky for them. Last guy who was truly dominant and came from the farm was Lester. Rodriguez is looking promising, but not front of the rotation promising. Dominant homegrown Sox starters have been few and far between since the 90’s.
Per http://www.baseballtradevalues.com, Betts for Wright and Waters is a fair deal. Including Pache or Anderson makes it very lopsided in Boston’s favor.
Of course this intimates that Atlanta really even wants OF, which seems unlikely.
I still like the idea of Betts to the Dodgers for Urias and Verdugo. The Dodgers might be willing to upgrade Verdugo to 1.5 years of a reigning MVP as a method of getting past losing two World Series and one LCS in the past 3 seasons.
One year for a player you will not resign, will not get you a strong package back. Mookie will not be traded but if he were, it would be to a team that at least could explore keeping him.
I still like the idea of Betts to the Dodgers for Urias and Verdugo.
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I doubt it’s happening, but I’d do that in a heartbeat. Even if we were contending, that would be too much to pass up.
Deals for top guys on the market are always lopsided. I agree with you, the Braves may not overpay because there’s not a huge need in RF. But for the Sox to make a move like that, they are definitely getting 2 of the 3 if not all 3. The return for Betts would be expected to be 2+ top 50 prospects and some other high end talent.
Urias and Verdugo would be the start of the deal, but there would be other pieces heading Boston’s way as well, especially since their clocks have already started. Not to mention Urias’ injury history. I’m not saying I don’t take a deal including those two, but that’s not nearly enough for Betts on its own.
especially since their clocks have already started. Not to mention Urias’ injury history.
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IRT Urias’ injury, he’s young, not quite skinny, and throws as hard as he ever did. Sometimes you have to gamble.
IRT to the clock, Urias has 4 years left after 2019 and Verdugo has 5 years left. The lost time doesn’t bother me that much for two reasons. The first is that the lost seasons have shown they can play. If you got 6 & 6, it would mean you have more years, but less MLB experience to judge them on. The second reason is that the lost years won’t hurt us in arbitration. If we lost two years of Urias because he had gone 25-15, the arb cost would be high. But, as good as he is, he has 9 wins and three saves with which to make his case.
Past that, imvho, I like everything. Urias was a legit top-10 at age 18. And just feels a little like Pedro-redux. Verdugo was 2nd rounder and ranked ~ top-30.
You do realize Mookie Betts is a 1 month rental right? You sure are looking at a major haul for a 1 month rental of Betts not having his MVP year. There is zero chance of Atlanta resigning Betts. It is hard to imagine a really good hitting team like Atlanta using valuable trade chips for Betts rather then starting or relief pitching. Btw if the Braves stay pat they are instant favorites to win the NL East so not exactly sure what you are talking about
You do realize Mookie Betts is a 1 month rental right?
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Not a one-month rental. It is a one year two-month rental. For LAD, it’s kind of like a one year, 2-month, and 2 years in the playoffs rental.
Who does develop dominant starting pitching anymore? It just doesnt exist. I wish they had more contributing arms but they honestly havent been much different than most teams. Yankees are banking on Severino to be that guy and he is a huge question mark still. Their last guy was who, Petitte? Remember Sox flipped Kopech as part of Sale deal. Espinoza was highly thought of pre Kimbrel trade. True Aces just dont really exist anymore.
Earth to faithful: the Braves need pitching not bats!
Cause acquiring betts would prevent them from acquiring pitching help……
The players itd take to acquire betts (wright anderson pache) wouldnt even be on the table to acquire any of the starters or relievers available to improve their pitching.
They have the pieces to do both. Itd deplete the farm but doable.
The Sox need pitching too. One has nothing to do with the other. As already mentioned, none of these 3 names would go into a Bauer / Stroman deal and Bumgarner would require 2 of 3 per the giants reported asking price (2 top 100 prospects).
They are a much better team offensively and defensively if you slot Betts in for Markakis and then shop Markakis. Complicated, sure. But getting a 3rd team involved could also help fill the gaps.
Trade Betts. LMFAO!
@thebighurt19 JD has an opt out clause after the season ends and I’m sure if he was traded to the Rays he’d trigger it. Not to mention the Rays don’t pay outfielders $20 million a year and teams in general don’t give up much for expiring deals. The Rays will be looking at the cheapest of the cheap options as usual.
Totally Disagree with this post….. although Trading JD to say the White Sox who should contend next year in a package with JBJ Dalbec or Casas for Jose Abreau & Luis Robert and LHP Reliever Fry would be keep them in it this year and help for next year as well.
Cora is a joke who got handed a WS team and pushed buttons.. Now that everything isn’t on a silver platter for him you see he is average at best. Leaders don’t divide the troops – they lead by example and take the high road while inspiring and fostering team effort.. See Bobby Cox. Sox need to move on from him – the sooner the better.
double lofl
Agreed, Cora is overrated and it’s showing this season. Last years team was one of the few times where everything falls into place perfectly and this year you’re seeing a market correction
Yet they’re in the hunt for a Wild Card. Stop showing that Yankees homer bias.
Well in fairness I think it would be hard to do much worse than hanging around the wild card hunt with this roster. You or I could probably manage this team and stay in the hunt… too much talent to do worse. I’m not saying it’s Cora’s fault they’re where they are, but I wouldn’t exactly be giving him credit for the current situation as a positive.
Yea, because with Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Velazquez, etc., he had a ton to turn to these last 2 years…
He got a bunch of nobodies to pitch lights out. What people are asking is for Cora to turn scrubs into superstars. Brasier’s ERA was sub-2.00 last season. xFIP didn’t believe it and neither did any of us. xFIP: 3.78. This year he has a 4.46 ERA which is much closer to normal.
There’s no Kimbrel to bail these guys out in the 8th when they struggle. The offense is still the best in baseball. Devers, Chavis, Vazquez, Hernandez, etc. are all taking huge career strides.
You can’t hand him coal and ask him to turn it into diamonds. The bullpen is overworked because of the back end of the rotation. The bullpen also lacks its strongest weapon from last season. Combine that with some regression and you have a team that is going to have peaks and valleys.
This is why I have been calling for the Sox to blow it up and collect on their assets before its too late. They can build around Sale, Price, Eovaldi, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Devers, Chavis, Hernandez and Vazquez, get back 6-8 pieces for Betts / JD / Porcello if they eat some money. Then you fill out that foundation with a few veterans, call up the young guys and in 2021 win again.
Also note: look at the Sox numbers when pinch hitting. It was around .360 going into last night and got better…
Cora’s still the man.
The Sox offense is one of the best but lots of subjectivity when declaring it The Best!
The Twins, Dodgers, Yanks, and Houston might have something to say about that.
Up and down the lineup comparatively very good but not The Best!
Last year the Sox walked on water….they could do no wrong….starters pitching in relief in the playoffs, other teams castoffs becoming WS heroes….they deserve their accolades but this just proves that in today’s ML baseball, a lot can change year to year and for the Sox it has….what Cora has to do with it…who knows!
Except HRs, Boston is leading in most categories. Problem has been the staff.
This whole season derailed when Cora chose to skip spring training. It led to a horrible start and a rotation that is far underperforming and injured. The bullpen was fine until the innings really added up bc the rotation didnt show up. Cora does need to own that the spring design didnt work.
The problem with Boston is 100% the starters. They were expected to carry the pitching staff. There starters have been far worse then expected and have taxed a bullpen that could not afford to be taxed. It all comes back to the starters. If Boston’s starters suddenly turn it around then Boston will be a dangerous team that almost assuredly makes the playoffs. If they can’t then they won’t simple as that. Offense has been as good as last years offense that is not an issue at all.
In terms of balance, Sox have an edge I think. But the teams mentioned all are fair to put up the fight.
Average 1st
Runs 1st
RBI 1st
OBP 2nd by .002
Slugging 5th
OPS 4th
Steals 10th
11th in HR is what drags down the slugging and OPS but they also lead the majors in doubles (Green Monster Much?). Also considering the huge RF/CF, this kind of comes into perspective.
But there are 5 really, really exciting offensive teams and that leaves out Colorado and Chicago, who both also have elite offenses.
Id take the Yankees offense over Boston this year even with the injuries.
Yankees have a lot of Swing and miss guys that might get exposed in the playoffs by good pitching. There power is frightening though.
Skip spring training? Right or wrong, he believed the staff first needed to rest more from 2018.
Yes, starters basically skipped the spring and were unprepared. They didnt build up and get on a regular schedule. I get the thought but we are seeing the results of that plan. Pitchers are already asked to do so much less, they should be fine after a few months off.
This is just funny… How can you taunt a manager who won the World Series as a rookie with an awful bullpen. He pulled all the right strings last year. This year, he’s pulling the same strings and the players aren’t performing. Everyone but the Red Sox seemed to figure out that everyone overperformed last season which is credit to Cora.
This is a roster construction issue which is Dave Dombrowski’s forte. Cora is also probably the most players-first manager right up there with Rocco Baldelli. Players said he would be a great manager when he was still playing.
Don’t think Cora’s any more player first than Aaron Boone…come on man, he may be good but the guy doesn’t walk on water!
Is he better than Tito? Eventually, teams find reasons to fire even what were the most successful managers (see Tito) because owners own the teams and like winning regardless and at some point don’t accept the excuses regardless of whether they are fair or not.
Oh I agree, but which players aren’t pitching to the back of their baseball cards? Sale and Porcello? Those guys aren’t the type where your manager usually has a huge impact. Those are veteran leaders.
Cora is in his second year. To fire him after a World Series would be like firing Tito in 2005… It makes no sense. They have a winning records. The young guys are playing their hearts out. The team is showing life after a tough start, which has a lot to do with the manager.
I’m sure if he could take back the relaxed Spring Training he would. Just like Dombrowski would take back resting on his laurels with the bullpen this past off-season. Everyone makes mistakes, but its how he learns from them that matters. Its clear he’s learning and continuing to learn. And he already won a World Series.
P.S. This is no discredit to Boone. I think he’s been fantastic and just as good as Cora and Baldelli. I just meant this from a perspective of that when Cora and Baldelli played, their managers all said as well as players that they would definitely manage and be outstanding. Boone I didn’t hear much about when he played from that perspective and I’m from NYC.
I was simply mocking the thought that his time has run out. His time has just begun. He’s going to be here probably almost as long as Tito if he keeps it up.
Stop trying to convince a small handful of NYY diehards who cannot be convinced otherwise the world is flat and only has one city.. NYC on it and it encumbers the entire known flat world fenwayfaithful.
To matters which are import for Sox fans.. Believe for sure Porcello has thrown his last game with Boston. When reports came out during ST he was wanting to talk extension, my thoughts were fine, but at half (10m) aav of what he’s currently making. Seeing his last several games really no better than the earlier season ones. Have to wonder how much he’s got left as “just” a 30yo already with 2k innings and throws right at 200IP’s year after year. Is he really done? Would he take some 1y deal full on incentives to come back? I don’t see him getting any 3y deal for sure and nothing over 10m.
I thought the identical thing. Porcello was obviously not vintage Porcello, but was reliable and a good clubhouse presence.
He still has time, and has figured it out before, but he’s been our weakest link.
Porcello always has seemed to be hot and cold other then his “Cy Young” season. Just when you think they should just DFA him and be done with him, he comes in and spins 6 shutout innings in New York and then 7 innings of 1 run ball in Tampa. Strings together 8-10 quality starts afterwards. You’re like, hey, we are rockin’ and rollin!
And then he can’t get out of the 2nd-4th inning for 3 weeks and gives up 25 runs in 18 innings (not real numbers, just making a point).
Back to screaming lose this clown… and then he will come out and prove me wrong again. Dude’s a headache as a fan. But I like his character.
They did not overperform last year offensively. The only 2 guys who are “below” last years stats are Betts and JD who are both still putting up all star seasons, just not MVP seasons. Better production at C, 1B, 2B, 3B. Same at SS, LF, CF. Difference between this year and last is pitching, specifically SP. Does Cora get credit for “overperforming” in 2018 but not have to own underperforming in 2019? I’m with you that Cora shouldnt go anywhere but this year has shown he has things to learn and improve for the future.
Specifically the bullpen is what I’m referring to, though we could lump Eovaldi in there as well. Brasier, Barnes, Hembree, etc. Its clarified above. Long thread. 🙂
As you pointed out w Brasiers stats boverachieving indicators, this year Barnes is down. Things would have evened out if the bullpen wasnt being asked to carry the staff. We both seem to have some long threads :-). Im good with it since it is real baseball talk.
How many WS titles did Bobby win? 1
How did Cora divide the troops? He said that, if we don’t start winning, some players are going to be traded.
1-It’s true, and everyone knows it, and the players know it.
2-A lot fans support us trading away if we fall out of the race.
3-He’s motivating the players that are currently under-performing.
So let me get this straight. Cora is overrated and you’re comparing to Bobby Cox and he needs to go ASAP? So it’s HIS fault the FO didn’t get a true closer? It’s his fault Sale,has been struggling with his pitches and I shaving a down season? It’s HIS fault that Procello is having his worst season ever? It’s HIS fault David Price pitched a dud because he was being selfish and cared more about a Feud with a Hall of Famer? Its his fault Evoladi hit the DL for half a season? If the Sox would have a closer in the 1st half we would be having this discussion, the closer by committee blew 10 saves and maybe even more in the 1st half. Please stop sounding like a typical Yankees fan.
Bobby Cox won one WS with Atlanta with 3 HOF pitchers a HOF batter and another near HOF batter with McGriff and another good hitting CF who was possibly the best fielding outfielder ever so not exactly sure Cox is the right guy to name when talking about a manager who wasn’t just a button pusher who really got the most out of his players. The fact that Cox didn’t win more WS with the pitching and overall team he had is laughable. His team was clearly the better team in 96 and he lost then and his team sure underachieved for the most part in the playoffs
The mistake was giving David Price $217M. That’s what ruined the Red Sox. Also, they don’t have anyone to put Chris Sale in his place when he’s in one of his toxic bad moods. Baseball is one of the few sports where the teammates’ attitudes actually matter. Dumbrowski hasn’t done them any favors either.
He is a skinny little twig man. I imagine most guys on the team could put him in his place if they felt like it.
Actually the Panda, Hanley signings were the worst, along with the Castillo signing
Love him or hate him, without Price, they don’t win the World Series last year. In addition, Price has been the stopper in this rotation this year. Every time they need to break a losing streak, in comes Price with a dominant start.
The media is a problem for Price, but he’s learning. You can’t call a contract bad when its critical to a World Series win. All these contracts are signed with World Series dreams.
Price more then paid his dues. Its time for the Boston media to stop creating stories where there are none for the sake of ratings.
The mistake was giving David Price $217M. That’s what ruined the Red Sox.
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You are very weak for a troll Or maybe you’re just a NYY fan. Ruined? With Price here, we have finished 1st every year and won the WS in spectacular fashion.
If this is your definition of ‘ruined (ROTFLMAO!), then give me four more years of ruin.
Poor little redhead stepchildren boo hoo
No, the mistake was you coming here and posting such an asinine comment. Either you’re a foolish troll or a clueless fan. I don’t know which, but either you RUINED any credibility you had. SMH
I find it remarkable that people can realistically believe the Red Sox should be sellers when they are 2 games out of Wild Card with 61 games to play. A team with this payroll, and more importantly, this talent should not sell.
With the current pitching in the shape it is in, do you honestly think they stand a chance with the Yanks or Houston for that matter…. wild card wise it would be one and done… so far can’t beat the better teams
Unfortunately, its a lack of understanding of the business side of baseball. Probably missed a few of Henry’s comments.
1) Unsustainable payroll with Mookie heading to free agency, no questions about it. Would you rather get a haul or a draft pick?
2) Roster construction. The Sox are too top heavy with their contracts. They have to rely on some young talent (of which they don’t have much near-ready) to fill out the roster as guys like Benintendi and Devers get more pricey. See 1 above again.
3) Windows: The Houston and New York windows start to close in 2021-2022. It would be much easier for them to let those 2 battle it out for the world series favorites in the AL and make big moves when other teams windows start to close. Price will be off the books around then as well, allowing them a ton of payroll flexibility to get extensions done for guys like Devers.
Right now, you look at your opponents and say, “Can I win multiple 5-7-game series realistically against my opponents?” If the answer is no, you should be a seller. Middle dwellers hang in limbo for a decade. Can’t hang there. And this team is still pretty darn solid without Betts & JD.
“Can I win multiple 5-7-game series realistically against my opponents?” If the answer is no, you should be a seller. Middle dwellers hang in limbo for a decade. Can’t hang there. And this team is still pretty darn solid without Betts & JD.
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Spot on, imo.
With Sale, Price, and ERod pitching well, we can beat anyone.
But if they aren’t, we will be an underdog v NYY & Astros, and against Snell at TB, about 50/50. And that assumes we make the playoffs, which is not a given.
I have no problem going for it, or tanking. The only thing I’d object to is sitting in limbo.
I’m with you on the yes than can compete if starting pitching shows up. They most certainly could beat NY and Houston like they did last year. Im absolutely ok sitting pat. If the rotation shows up, they have a chance even though they made the path tougher on themselves. Even if this year doesnt work out, they have the chance to bring back nearly the same lineup and once again it’ll be on the rotation to show up. The only way you sell is if you think Sale, Price, Eovaldi cant pitch anywhere near what they are being paid and you are giving up until they all go away.
I’d prefer to call it defensive selling. I like Price and I like JDM, but it does feel like they are on a slightly downward trend based on their age. It’s not so the production right now, but what the production will look like 2-3 years from now.
Price has pitched well, but hasn’t had a complete season since 2016.
JDM is still a good hitter, but no longer a great hitter, For the ~ $53M these two are getting paid, we can replace their production without incurring the downside risk of the final year or two.
Here’s my only problem with going for it Joe:
J.D. opts out and leaves for a draft pick (trading him would actually do him a favor and rid him of draft compensation if he opts out, I think).
Porcello is gone and we still have $75 mil+ invested in 3 starters (Sale, Price, Eovaldi if he starts next year).
Betts value as a trade commodity is a half-season less and not at a trade deadline when teams are desperate, so dealing him even in the off-season reduces the return greatly and removes teams’ sense of urgency to make the deal. And Betts is not coming back to Boston. Lets get that straight. They will not give him what he wants with Sale/Price/Eovaldi on the books. It would tie up $110 mil or so in 4 players. Won’t happen with the below needing addressing.
Benintendi is creeping towards free agency. Only a few short years. Devers shortly thereafter.
Not shedding payroll and making some moves sets us up for a big rebuild and likely shopping off some assets to fill gaps. Making this move now allows the fast rebuild/transition we need to make a Yankees-esque return to form. Instead of losing pieces for a Giles which we need to compete and have a real chance, lets gain pieces and take over when the Yankees have to address Judge, Stanton is older, and the rest of their young core becomes pricey and the Astros window starts to close a bit.
See my below comment to Joe.
Its not that they can’t (Sale/Price/Eovaldi). Its that you can’t win in the playoffs with no answers after the 6th inning and a streaky rotation. The bullpen is critical in the 2010’s. That’s why every team is on the market for relief help.
Right now after Sale/Price its E-Rod Porcello Cashner with no bullpen. I’m not a traditional Sox fan pessimist, but our bullpen needs to shine if they are expected to cover 8 and 9 for Price and Sale and then have to cover 5-9 for the others.
Right, the rotation has to step up and if they do they can compete so take that chance bc they certainly arent overworked. It isnt that they dont have a pen, its just that is where they are saving money from the commitment they made to the starters. They need to challenge them to pitch 6-7 regularly and god forbid 8 or even 9 on occasion. Bullpen is plenty strong if used appropriately.
I hope JD opts out and we got one great year, a really good year and atleast 1 WS. Then with the rest of the money coming off they can pay arbitration to their guys and start extending people. The only holes they will have to fill will be back end of rotation, a bullpen arm, 2b and bench. Compete again next year and then it is decision time on Betts. He is already making a big sum so his raise wont be debillitating and shortly after him you start reaching the end of Pedroia, Eovaldi, Price, etc. It is harder if JD stays but not impossible.
How does Yankee window close in 2021-2022.ALmost none of the Yankees premier players are near arbitration German is in his first year and Severino and Hicks are wrapped up. They have several minor leaguers including a stud pitcher coming up and Sabbathia and Gardners salaries will be leaving so why is the Yankees window closing exactly, Their entire infield is young players and most of there of is young players or locked up players, Stanton will remain there only large contract especially with Tanakas contract expiring. Their pitching will feature guys like German Severino Montgomery and Garcia. Your commenr confuses me
Boston fans…not intending to put blood in the water, but asking from the perspective of a Yankees’ fan who doesn’t see Betts every day. He’s an absolutely terrific player, but are you worried about his ability to hold up physically in the longer run (the longer run in a long-term contract?) Would you want him to sign, say a 7 year extension? You know he’s not going to take just a short term one.
He’s one of those guys who’s good enough that it’s worth the risk. You’re getting him for his age 28-35 seasons. Those last 3 might be rough so I guess what it really comes down to is whether or not you think you can compete for a championship during the first half of the contract. As much as I’d hate quitting on this team, if they believe Sale and Price will be able to pitch at a high level 2 years down the line, and they can clear the bad money off the books, I’d ship out Betts and JDM for near MLB ready guys and go for it in 2021. You should be able to keep everyone else and even make some additions. I’d target pitching of any kind and a great outfielder in trading those two, maybe a 3B if you want Devers to DH after the trade.
He already stated and repeated yesterday he’s not open to an extension. He loves Boston and hopes to return via free agency. This is code for that the Red Sox and Betts wouldn’t even be in the same ballpark on a contract unless he pressures them with other offers. Betts is looking for Harper + some. Sox probably are more comfortable with a little more then they gave Price. Its not even worth going to the table.
Betts won’t take anything under 10 years. Probably looking at 11 or 12. We’d all love to resign him if 7/$210 mil got it done.
but are you worried about his ability to hold up physically in the longer run (the longer run in a long-term contract?) Would you want him to sign, say a 7 year extension?
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Oddly enough, yes and yes.
1-Yes, I expect him to wear down more quickly than a Trout type, but I also expect Stanton to wear down faster than Betts. So it’s tricky.
2-I’d offer him ~ $240M/8. I never thought he was as good as he was last year. But he is still regularly a 6-WAR player. The theoretical 0.5 WAR/year regression for the last 3 years won’t bother me.
3-But if/when he doesn’t sign an extension, I’d trade him, either at 7/31 if we fall out, or in the off-season. He says he loves it here, but wants to test free agency, which is fair. But that has to work both ways. If his loyalty is not to be put to the test by capitalizing on free agency, then our loyalty should not be put to the test for capitalizing on his talent.
Arenado contract seems fair
Arenado contract + a year and 35 mil fair for Mike Trout as well?
I’d love to get Mookie at that price. But its LOL funny. You’d insult the player even offering it.
If in a weeks time they feel like theres a chance they could miss the playoffs they should move guys that arent going to be a part of next years roster like Porcello. Theres no point in delaying the inevitable
Right now, if they trade Porcello, they have to eat most of the remaining dollars and an already overtaxed bullpen becomes more overtaxed. Porcello still eats innings. If you trade Porcello, you trade Betts and JD as well and evaluate your standing. If they eat money, they don’t get salary relief, which means they still can’t add/tweak/replace.
I think a team like the Tigers would pay the entire Porcello contract if the Red Sox included Casas. Tigers have run $200 mil payrolls for years. Thy are at almost half that now with almost $40 mil coming off this off season. A few months of Porcello is worth a top prospect. 1B’s are a dime a dozen in today’s game. Chavis can play there… Dalbac will need some playing time.
Porcello and Casas for Farmer and Stumpf. A couple relievers that are decent. Stumpf is solid LOOGY.
Farmer and Stumpf have career ERAs of 4.66 & 5.54.
If MLB implements the 3 batter minimum rule, the LOOGY becomes completely useless
Why would you include the only premium bat in the system to get rid of a half season of Porcello’s salary? Negates my whole point.
I’m simply saying his return doesn’t equal what he can give us on the field. If you’re going to trade Porcello, you’re going to trade Betts and J.D. as well. If you’re doing that, you’re adding minor league assets not subtracting. The money isn’t an issue if you’re cashing in your chips. The money is only an issue if you’re trying to make a subsequent deal to compete which I’m pointing out wouldn’t be possible if you’re also eating Porcello’s salary to get some kind of flyer assets back.
The Red Sox aren’t trading Casas to simply get rid of less then a half year of Porcello salary cmon get real.
The RS are one of the last teams to worry about salary relief. If we were to trade those guys, I’d eat every dollar until the commissioner called up to complain.
See Henry’s statements Joe. He’s not adding more money to the books and the current payroll is coming down “soon” drastically. He doesn’t designate exactly when, but you can expect the $45+ mil coming off this year probably won’t be entirely reinvested.
Even for Henry, money doesn’t grow on trees.
Red Sox lose close to $45 mil to free agency this offseason. Porcello, Pearce, Moreland, Nunez, Holt Owings are all leaving. $55 mil if they let Cashner walk. If they want to trade Betts, there are plenty of takers and they could fill a couple of those holes with inexpensive prospects. Losing Betts hurts, but they’d still have a very solid team and have a shot at a wildcard.
Phillies send Haseley, Quinn, and Spencer Howard.
or
Dodgers send Beatty, Jeter Downs, and Ross Stripling.
Don’t forget Flablow Sandivol
Excuse me… Sandoval
Both of those packages – especially the Dodgers one that involves getting Betts for spare parts – are incredibly light.
Using the values from another website, any deal for Betts with the Phillies has to include both Medina and Bohm. Lots of options with the Dodgers, but a deal involving Urias and Verdugo (who would be out of a job if Betts was acquired anyway) or Lux would work. I think Verdugo makes more sense for multiple reasons – same position as Betts and Taylor’s injury might necessitate calling up Lux.
Ketch you are missing the point doesn’t matter what some website says is fair value if DD isn’t blown away he isn’t going to trade him. The Red Sox control Betts for another season and Boston isn’t a team that has to trade Betts or lose him for nothing. Think what happened with the Chapman trade only much better secondary pieces if the Dodgers offered Verdugo and Urias Boston would take that but that’s about the only Proposal I have seen floating around that makes any sense for Boston.
Ketch is missing the concept of supply and demand. There’s no one like Betts available and teams are desperate at the trade deadline to add pieces to help them win.
I do think teams are smarter then to give up Gleyber for Chapman again, but the asking price is an additional top 50 prospect higher if not more at the deadline then the off-season. During the off-season needs can be addressed via free agency and more well constructed and thought out trades at the winter meetings.
Deadline moves are emotional and critical. Sellers use it as leverage. Especially sellers like the Sox that don’t HAVE to let go of those pieces.
Adding the next best 5 tool piece to Mike Trout (throw Yelich in here too now…) makes any team better. No disrespect to any other great players. Not saying one over the other. Just saying there’s only a few competitors that wouldn’t jump at the opportunity if they could make it happen.
Agreed. However, one minor thing. Henry said payroll has to come down in coming years and its unsustainable to stay at this rate.
I don’t expect all that money to be reinvested. Look for the Sox to try to hang around the $200 mil mark next season.
Who is due for a meaningful arb raise. Not Betts unless he finishes really strong. Not JBJ. Signed Bogey. Not time yet for Benny and Devers. Barnes? Nope. ERod? Nope. So if JD goes and about $70M comes off, they can spend some money and still be down significantly.
$23M of that wiggle room will be absorbed by Xander’s and Sale’s new contracts.
The Cubs are the team that needs to deal for Betts. They are the ones with a shrinking window and they need a lethal stick.
Start the negotiations with Schwarber, Caratini, Alzolay and add prospects from there.
Betts, Almora, Heyward OF isn’t bad.
That package isn’t going to get it done. It would take Schwarber, Hoerner and Alzolay. And even then the pitching return is light. The only reason for the Sox to consider is they could flip Hoerner for a badly needed pitcher
Hoerner would be that prospect added to the list.
Look, Cubs window is now. They need Betts worse than anyone. Make it happen.
You are deranged….sorry
Elaborate Butch. Please, put me in my place.
Along the lines of the Porcello comments….the single dumbest time wasting sports talk topic is “should they focus on winning the division or focus on the wild card?”
Focus on winning whatever game you are playing in at that moment. The rest takes care of itself.
I don’t know what DD is going to do
These Betts proposals are silly for the most part. The Red Sox control Betts for 1 more year if they are to trade Betts then DD is going to have to blown away in order to do it. The team acquiring Betts is going to have to look at him as that last piece to the puzzle anything short of being blown away DD keeps Betts.
they aren’t trading Betts! get real! they could use a closer for sure, if they just play consistently good they are in the playoffs.
Boston has dug their own hole and its a deep one. Betts and Martinez aren’t playing currently up to the standard they played the past two years..
Sale and Price have been miserable over all. Price has lost a couple miles off his fast ball and look at what happens he is still throwing strikes but the batters are fouling him off. But the 4th or 5th inning he’s up to almost 100 pitches. Sale is throwing strikes but he’s either telegraphing whats coming or he’s hurt and not telling anyone how bad.
You can’t blame Cora the team is the same he had last season and he can’t play for them.
Now the big problem Price, Martinez and Sale have huge contracts and given their current play no team is going to want to fork out the cash or top prospects to pick up those salaries unless Boston takes a chunk back.
As for Betts he has said he’s not interested in an extention. He wants to go free agent after the 2020 season, he saw what Harper and Trout got and he knows he’ll likely be the # 1 choice in the 2020 / 2021 pool. And he’s getting over 20 mil currently is any team going to want to pick that up on a 1 year deal.
That leaves Devers and Bogaert and the rookie 1st baseman because Pearce and Moreland will be free agents at the end of this season. Pedroia will in all likely hood call it a career the knee is never going to be better then it is right now. Bradley has flashes of being very good but only flashes.
Wright and Porcello will not get you anywhere.