TODAY: You can add the Brewers to the stack of club’s showing initial interest in Ray, Morosi tweets. It seems safe to presume that just about every organization with a rotation need will at least take a look at the southpaw.
YESTERDAY, 10:25pm: The Yankees are also among the teams interested in Ray, Jon Heyman of MLB Network tweets. Considering they’ve historically liked Ray, that’s not surprising.
4:48pm: Diamondbacks starter Robbie Ray is one of the top rotation targets on this summer’s trade market. The Arizona organization will have to decide whether the time is right to cash in on the southpaw, who’s earning $6.05MM in 2019 and can be controlled via arbitration for one more season beyond the present.
The Astros and Phillies are two of the teams showing “recent interest” in Ray, according to MLB.com’s Jon Morosi. It’s unsurprising to see this particular connection; both of those organizations is in obvious need of starting pitching and already pursued Ray over the offseason. No doubt other organizations are also taking a look at Ray in anticipation of the Snakes entertaining offers.
At this point, it’s unclear just how the Arizona organization will behave at the deadline. The club itself does not fully know, GM Mike Hazen has indicated. Final decisions will surely come down to details that aren’t yet known: where exactly are the Snakes in the Wild Card standings? And what package of young talent can they achieve for Ray and others?
The ’Stros and Phils are surely interested in gaining an understanding not just of what kind of pieces the D-Backs would want, but how inclined they are to pursue a deal in earnest. While the Houston organization will surely be in on rental assets, it has reasons to prefer controllable arms. It makes much more sense for the Philadelphia club to focus on the latter class, given its recent struggles.
It’ll certainly be interesting to see how negotiations progress on Ray. He’s a particular target for strikeout-loving teams — so long as they can live with his walk issues and a few more long balls than might be preferred. Since the start of his breakout 2017 campaign, Ray has thrown nearly four hundred innings of 3.47 ERA ball with 12.0 K/9 and 4.5 BB/9 along with 1.3 dingers per nine. Though the best run of results came at the front end of that time period, by most measures Ray has been much the same pitcher throughout. There were some health hiccups last year, but he has stayed on the mound this season. All things considered, Ray is quite an appealing target for the right contender.
The situation is made all the more interesting by the D-Backs’ own circumstances. Both Hazen and CEO Derrick Hall have made clear the organization isn’t looking for anything close to a full rebuild. That’s not to say that they wouldn’t be interested in highly talented but far-off prospects, but the Arizona org is not going to punt on the present entirely. That stance promises to impact the sort of deal structures that are pursued. The Snakes acquired talented players at or near the majors — Luke Weaver, Carson Kelly, and Andy Young — in last winter’s Paul Goldschmidt deal, which could provide something of a model for a Ray swap.
This is for SPUDCHUKAR.
And Mo and Girsch have found interest in Sam Cavato.
Definitely a better option than Boyd, but I wouldn’t say better option than madbum. But he could definitely fit into both of the clubs rotation, and should help them out down the stretch.
Is he REALLY a better option than Boyd? He’s got a much worse FIP and WHIP. He walks batters right and left and isn’t a strikeout guy to makeup for those walks. The only thing I see more attractive about him than Boyd is that he may cost you less to acquire, but I don’t think he’s a better pitcher.
Compare road numbers of both pitchers. Much better indicator. Ray’s better than Boyd. Definitely a better option.
Robbie Ray’s away performances are not a hill you want to die on. Surely.
I’ll take his numbers, home or road, against the NL contenders. And you wouldn’t want Matt Boyd outside of Comerica. Surely.
Lol and Boyd has an amazing track record right? And his era is climbing by the start. Don’t hold your breath on him being that ace. His 10/19 quality starts isn’t something to get a chub over either. Don’t get me wrong he’s having a solid year and his Ks are nice but look at the over all picture on who he really is. Can’t give a guy too much credit when he’s had a handful of good starts, I need to see consistency.
And Ray’s 11.8 k/9 isn’t too bad either.
Boyd is only better than 1 available starter, and that’s Wheeler. Cashner does not count as he’s already been traded.
I get chub for a lot, but no players listed here. Still though there are some with chub for Ray, Boyd, and MadBum. If I have to get chub, then I do for Boyd. The tigers are bad bad bad. Motivation is low low low. Boyd numbers lately reflect meh attitude of whole team.
Boyd is the top SP on the market. I know it bothers Trim to hear that but smart FOs have spoken my friend. They see who has the most upside for this year and beyond and that is Boyd.
No one has said Boyd or Ray were aces and they are not being acquired with that in mind.
It doesn’t bother me one bit kid. If a team would like to ruin their future for a glorified #4 and fading, have at it. Boyd’s not worth what Avila is looking for.
Hey Trim
I am no kid at 43 yrs old but baseball makes us feel like a kid sometimes I guess. MLB guys love Boyd and think of his future years a lot higher then some who just look at previous stats.
Can’t quite make that claim until a trade happens. I bet the asking price is too high for their liking.
Lol what? Compare Road numbers? Did you need to find something Boyd did better than Ray? Ray’s 4.09 ERA is nothing to write home about.
Ray only has marginally better velocity. A worse walk rate and he pitches shorter into games. He also has a bit of HR issue himself. Boyd’s xWOBA .290. Ray—-.316 I get that your M.O. is to hate on Boyd but come on. Robbie Ray is not the pitcher to ride your statistical cherry picking horse on.
There’s a reason you hear rumors that teams are interested in both Boyd and Ray. Ray will definitely be cheaper given he has less years of control and a walk issue.
Career numbers. Not 2019. We can look at Boyd’s career numbers if you like.
Quite honestly I don’t really care what any pitcher did 3+ years ago. That’s what the MadBum is an ace folks are hanging their hat on. Matt Boyd is a much improved pitcher the last 2 seasons. The HRS are an issue though. I think he probably stays in Detroit because the ask is too high given all the years of control. Ray has similar concerns plus walk issues. I don’t think teams really prefer Ray to Boyd as a SP. But the cost is lower. I don’t see how you can be on the Boyd is a bum train and be on the Robbie Ray is a very solid starter train. They’re too similar besides Ray’s walk issue.
Taking up Ray and trashing Boyd doesn’t make sense unless you’re trying to make a story fit the numbers.
Great points jbigz
Are #4 pitchers bums to you Bigz? If so, then I’m guilty.
Forget 3+ years ago and take the last 3 seasons beginning 2017. Has Boyd improved? Clearly by the numbers that is a yes. Let’s also keep in-mind he has zero pressure, zero postseason experience, zero big game experience, zero experience with any meaningful game in the biggest zero division in baseball. Comerica is also one of the best places to pitch. If you want to throw all your eggs in that basket that’s your choice.
I pointed out to Dusty days ago the exact same line you used; the asking price is too high. Execs still aren’t sold on the vast improvement. Prior to 3 months ago you would have been hard-pressed to find a GM wanting to trade for Matt Boyd. I bet there would have been more interest in Ray prior to 3 months ago. Boyd’s backsliding as we speak.
There is regression/backsliding in quality of pitching and pure stuff which result in poor numbers then there is regression in the numbers like ERA but where the pitching quality and pure stuff has not regressed.
In this ERA “backsliding” of Boyd’s since June he has a 61K/8BB in 41 innings and tons of swing and misses and teams see that. Try watching Boyd pitch is my suggestion. (Not talking about years ago either)
Why has his ERA spiked since June with high level quality stuff still?
Homeruns (he admittedly has made more mistake pitches this past month as well as the warm month and he is a fly ball pitcher with juiced balls…ask JV and his 26 homeruns allowed) and unlucky BABIP imo
Dustin your about dumb as a bag ah hammers bud.
We can discuss baseball Pickles without name calling my friend.
I am just stating what I have seen with Boyd this year compared to other SP around the league on my MLB package.
Everywhere I look I see neutral or other team baseball people and media saying that Boyd is the top SP on the market so I am not alone with my opinion.
He might be traded and he might not due to a high price tag.
You’re right I apologize.
He IS a strike out guy. He’s doing 11.9 k’s per 9
Pickles wrong again
The reason a team trades for Ray is that Boyd costs too much.
1. Boyd
2. Stroman
3. Ray
4. MadBum
Greinke is number 2 if he is available imo
I would agree w you on the Boyd/Ray side of things, Dustin. Ray would certainly be the option teams go with because they don’t want to pay Detroit’s ask. Which is fair considering Boyd doesn’t have a huge track record and has tons of control remaining.
Though as I said below I could see teams interested in using Ray in a multi inning relief capacity in October rather than a traditional starter. Kinda like the Brewers did last year w guys like Burnes and Woodruff. Ray certainly isn’t your 7 inning starter. I think he could potentially be an absolute weapon in that capacity. I think the control issues will keep him from every reaching that type of upside.
If I was looking for a multi-inning reliever I could hear an argument for preferring Ray to Boyd. But as a starter I don’t believe so.
Oh because Boyd has had a handful of good starts this year and his era isn’t quite to the mid 4s yet? You would prefer Boyd ? He’s shown you consistent success that I have yet to see I guess.
It doesn’t matter who I prefer…It matters who the MLB FOs prefer.
I wasnt replying to your message
I mean look I’ll have a reasonable argument w anybody who wants to use some evidence to back their claim. Boyd has some detractors and I wouldn’t be inclined to give up tons of top talent for him at the moment. But I can see why Detroit’s ask is high and I can certainly see the appeal in Boyd. His underlying numbers started the upward trend last year. .for example his .289 XWOBA in 2018 indicated the quality of contact he gave up should’ve lead to better results. These are the kind of things analytically inclined FO’s take a look at. His rise up the board this year has been due to that K rate skyrocketing and posting an elite walk rate. The HRS are a detractor and depending on your level of concern with them could, that could muddy the final valuation of Boyd. If you think the HRS are a gigantic deal you definitely aren’t going to pay the ask.
Ray has had his own HR issues and he has a gigantic walk issue. Ray’s walk issue can’t not be a detractor. I just don’t want to hear an argument for that. I’ve been intrigued by Ray’s potential for years but this man has posted more 4-5 inning 9-10+ K starts with 5 walks than anyone I can remember. The K’s always seem to be an issue for him to go deep into ballgames and the K’s for him really elevate his pitch count. I see more #4 starter there. But like I said I think w his arm using him as a multi inning weapon is where you really get the value.
And to avoid my reply becoming too block-like. I’ll continue down here. Ray is dominant the first time through the order. After that, the walk rate ticks well north and he really starts getting into trouble. That’s why I see multi inning weapon out of him. I really think his stuff could play up in a short stint and be even better than that. The Stros/yanks may see that as well. There’s really nothing that suggests they like Ray for their October rotation. It’s just that the arm potential intrigues them. It intrigues me also. It just does not intrigue me in becoming a front line rotation piece. The numbers suggest a potential dominant reliever.
“Handful”? You sound like you don’t know who Boyd is. He’s 7th in the AL in pitching WAR. Just ahead of Gerrit Cole. 4th in AL BB/9, just ahead of Verlander. 3rd in AL k/9. 5th in AL k’s. Tied for 13th in HR’s allowed… behind Verlander and Cole. 1st in K/BB. 7th in FIP. Not bad for a guy with a “handful of good starts”. LOL
Boyd improved last year… lowered his era by almost a full run. He is lowering it again this year. Improving k/9 and walk rates the last two years.
Notice many of these categories are not influenced by defense or ballpark tendencies. These are pitcher vs batter stats. Imagine if he had a solid defense behind him. Imagine if his team scored some runs for him. Imagine if he had a bullpen he could rely on. His other numbers would most definitely improve. Maybe that’s what baseball people are looking at. Not sure what you are looking at.
Great info Melchez
Coming into this yr nobody new or if they did they didn’t think much of Boyd, but since he’s racked up ks all sudden ppl that don’t know much about baseball jump on his bandwagon and get all tickled to death when they see ks rolling in. There’s more to pitching then strikeouts, it’s all about being consistent and giving your team a chance to win by putting together a quality start. When you pitch a quality start 50% of the time your record and era will show it. Now if you can get ks and do the others that’s great and you could be thrown in discussion of being a ace type pitcher. So bottom line is Boyd has had some good outings to go along with good ks, but more often he’s not giving his team a chance to win. His era is climbing by the start and it’s gone up 2pts in little over a month. Mark my word, his era will be in the mid 4s come season end and I’ll give him the 200+ks but who cares if your 9-13 with 4.60era
You’re over here gargling on robbie ray’s Balls and he’s thrown 6/20 quality starts. I keep seeing you trying to slander Boyd for 10/19. 6/20 is far worse pal. Robbie Ray typically doesn’t make it 6 innings in his starts.
Posting Boyd hate and loving up on Robbie Ray in the same breath makes little to no sense. If you like Ray, you should also like Boyd. Both are flyball pitchers with sky high K rates. Boyd tends to go a little deeper into the game and walks less.
All I said is I would take Ray over Boyd because of his track record and consistency. While being able to get cheaper than what Boyd’s asking price is. If I was a GM trying to get a lefty that couldn’t land madbum I would prefer Ray. I never talked about how great he is. Lol. He’s solid #4 starter at best. I just know from his track record I would know what to expect aquiring him. Getting Boyd you don’t know what your getting, and as of late he’s not doing that great so ..
Many people knew of Boyd… he was one of three pitchers in the Price deal. Daniel Norris was the bigger name. Boyd is no ace and shouldn’t be considered an ace. I don’t know of anyone that has called him an ace except maybe being the Tigers ace because they have no one else. Boyd had a great minor league season in ’16 and was called up and did decently. There was hope. ’17 he had some really bad games, but some real impressive games too (1 hit shutout) Inconsistent like a young pitcher can be. He improved in ’18… less bad games, more good games. He’s improved this year too.
The reason Boyd is spoken of so often is because of supply and demand. Demand is high for healthy starters. There are quite a few teams looking to improve their rotation. Boyd has 3 more years of control, so more teams are interested for this year and next. Supply is low. There aren’t many starters that have been healthy all year and doing decently. That’s why the price is so high. It’s not that he’s better than guys like JA Happ Cole Hamels or other starters in previous deadline deals. It’s that there is less to choose from, especially with 3 years and so little $.
Personally I don’t think Detroit trades Boyd unless they are blown away by a trade …in other words a team that will overpay.. kind of like the pirates in their trade for archer. Gave up to much but they wanted archer.
It’ll take more to get Stroman than Ray, plus Ray is a lefty and has better road numbers than at home. Atlanta should be all over him. Ray’s had a very good career against LA, Milwaukee and the Cubs.
Why so much focus on road numbers?
Why not focus on road numbers? And numbers against opponents.
Sample size
Stroman and his 7K/9 and closing in on a 1.30 whip. If you want a solid and dependable SP Stroman is your guy. If you want a 220-240K LHP and upside you go with Boyd.
What up side? He’s on the down slide as we speak. And has been over the last month.
I know you cherish your tigers bub but let’s be realistic here. Boyd isn’t a premier talent your making him out to be.
Last 41 innings 61K/8BB…He is just fine.
Pitchers go through tough months at different times but teams still see his dominant outlining numbers.
And his era in that span is? And his career era is? Pitchers go through tough months? yeah well he’s been going through tough years and had a couple good months only..Also he’s pitching in the weakest division in baseball while pitching in a pitchers park still serving up the long ball quite regularly. All of that equals = weak sauce
His ERA 2 starts ago was 3.7. It’s at 4 now.
After the next two starts it might be down to 3.7 again…after the next 4 starts it might be 3.5..and so on..
His BABIP has been real unlucky this past month and him giving up more homers has his era elevated but imo it comes down by August because his stuff still is at a high level.
If the Phillies go for a Snakes pitcher, it should be Greinke if he will waive his no-trade clause. They can afford his salary and should not have to give up much in prospects.
If they can afford Greinke AND extend Realmuto then sure, but to me a Realmuto is a top priority. The Phillies are done in 2019. It’s time to look forward. They just went 14-37.
can and should. both moves help help you going forward and Greinke gives you a major upgrade now. i know it looks like they are a lot of pieces away, but Greinke over VV is an astronomical upgrade that could help energize this team. extending JT might help Greinke wave his no-trade. ypu cant tell me any pitcher doesnt want to throw to JT if anyone.
I can dig it. It’s a pipedream, but I’m all about it right now.
The Phillies have been bad, but don’t come on here and make things up. The Phillies beat the Cardinals on May 30, that left them with a record of 33-22. They are now 48-46, so since that Cards win, they are 15-24.
Houston should try and trade for Greinke…they have prospects but the D-Backs would have to pay some of the salary…probably 10-12 million per year. But the D-Backs would get several good Astro prospects in return, I would guess 3 prospects between 10-20 on the prospect list.
Good for it. Yankees are interested as well but we all know they couldn’t land a starter if it landed on their laps.
I would love to see what Ray could do outside of that hitter’s haven stadium. Wait, I already do know. Career ERA at home 4.79. Road 3.37. WHIP 1.46 HOME. 1.24 ROAD.
But….but…but Boyd has years of team control!!
And prospects are cool, but championships are cooler.
Ray is definitely a upside play for whoever trades for him.
Well, he happens to be pitching much better at home this year v the road so I’m not sold on that theory. A guy who struggles to throw strikes could easily still have issues. If you can’t correct Ray’s walk issue the park doesn’t really matter. He won’t be anymore than what he is now. And slapping Ray’s ERA down doesn’t paint an equivalent picture either. Considering he’s largely a 5 inning starter.
With that being said I think Ray could be a dominant multi-inning reliever in October. Which may be his calling card for a team like Houston. Control issues tend to bite you a lot less in 2-3 inning stints.
please Ray for Medina. im sick of this team overrating Medina and want him gone before he ends up bombing in the majors.
This. All this.
heck, they should just go all in on Arizona and add Greinke, Ray, and Dyson for all their salaries, Medina, and Gamboa or Brito (another two overrated players. Maton is much better)
This is all well and good, but this team isn’t winning anything as long as Kapler is the manager and they continue mishandling minor leaguers
ive heard quite a few complaints about their supposed inability develop pitchers, but then again, how many have they drafted in the first round the past few drafts. they’ve been missing on arms while going for players at positions they dont need.
LOL here we go again. Someone blaming the manager for having a pitching staff that has surrendered the most HR in the NL. Kapler is doing a fine job with the hand he’s dealt.
my take on it is that he’s not one of the 30 best people in the world to be managing a MLB team, but certianly not the worst among the 30 that are doing so. id prefer Dusty or someone else to take over, but blaming Kapler for the hitters not doing their jobs or Pivetta and VV still being the guys that the staff must roster is absurd.
Harper contract looks terrible already! Team crippled their ascent. Should have done pitcher signs. A lot. Manager is not problem, if no visible bench fighting or team bickering, then manager is okay.
Harper is not crippling. they have the money to add pitchers, which is why fans around here are so ticked. granted, wasnt the best SP market, and im somewhat glad they still have the payroll space for a Greinke.
Middleton has a net worth of $3.3B I think they’ll be just fine when it comes to finances. Not to mention the multi billion dollar tv deal.
The Phillies have 1 decent starting pitcher, a bullpen devastated by injury, and the worst bench in baseball. People still find a way to blame Kapler for this.
Put him in the pen and let him go all out in 2-4 inning stints. Hes an elite arm i think he would really excel in the pen
Phillies front office are a bunch of idiots. When are they going to learn to stay away from these older pitchers? Robbie Ray is just another Arrieta
Dudes 27…
I really don’t care for Ray and as a Phillies fan it concerns me that the front office values strikeouts so much that they ignore everything else.
he’s 27 but okay
whoops, responded to the wrong comment, my bad
Some have chub for Ray. See him for a Phillie? Nope. Like them to go for an over spend somewhere on vet. Follow trend.
Ray and Bradley
Ray seems to be exactly the sort of pitcher that the Twins want: decent left-hander and under one more year of control. Plus, the Twins will have more Rule-5 type players than they can protect in the off season, a few of which, at least, would be worth trading for. Their farm system is quite good.
While I’d much rather have Wheeler, I do have Ray and Stroman as close 2nds mainly due to their high prices that would be better allocated towards the Twins bullpen.
Clint Frazier, Jacoby Ellsbury, and a low level, lottery ticket for Robbie Ray. Who says no?
Just in case. This was sarcasm.
You’ll get nothing without Wil Myers. The Yankees will have to obtain Myers first. Once you have Wil Myers… why settle on Ray?
Wil Myers can even bring you Mike Trout if you want him.
Here’s a trade idea:
Florial, Gil, Cessa, and Elsbury contract for Grienke and Ray.
But… But.. years of low percentages of quality starts a year and inconsistency..:/
Phillies fans are no different from Met fans. When the team sucks, blame the manager or injuries.
It’s not like it’s the fans fault
Boyd is the most overhyped SP on the block this year! Now Ray is closing in on him! Any team that trades anything for these two future DFA candidates needs their heads examined! Both of them have been shellacked in their last few outings! Pitchers always look like the second coming of Nolan Ryan until batters get some footage of them and figure their game out. Then they crash to earth.
no to boyd, no to ray.
no need for another year of overrated mid year drek. get an ace or move on. most of these guys are no better than the loisiagas of the world. so, why bother?
Get Ray out of the Chase Field bandbox and he is an ace
Hes not an ace lmao come on now. But a very solid rotation piece? yes of course. Could impact a division race for sure.
not only is he no ace, but guys with ERA’s over 4 in national league don’t exactly set the AL on fire. Barring it costing a low probability type of prospect this is an automatic pass.
Look at in in reverse. If the sox or one of the other contenders got him, would you feel like OMG we need to counter? would you fear him starting against the Yankee line-up? no f***ing way, i’d be fine with him going to the other contenders. Pass
Which 2019 pitchers on the following teams are better than Ray’s overall career stats away from Chase Field: Angels, Royals, Tigers, Rockies, O’s, Mariners, Bluejays, Cardinals, Giants, Padres, Pirates, Phillies, A’s, and Marlins.
NL is superior to the AL
DH’s would disagree.
Nice dhs might but interleague play has been super one sided
Check his stats away from Chase
Would the Yankees be allowed to take Ray and Yasmani Tomas as a package deal? They would be spending money, but not paying luxury tax on most of it. (Ray should make about $17M, Tomas is owed another $24M, so that’s $43M for a year and a half of a no. 2-ish starter.
Which seems fair. So it works out for everybody except the billionaire welfare recipients who are getting some of that luxury tax.
Tomas’ salary counts toward the luxury tax figure. Not sure if you’re saying it doesn’t or that the Yanks wouldn’t be too far over if they did add Ray and Tomas. But Rusney Castillo is the last guy w the exception.
Robbie Ray doesn’t seem like an asset the Diamondbacks are going to want to move before Greinke. If AZ can unload Greinke, Ray will be shortly thereafter. If they can’t trade Greinke and are in the hunt, I’m guessing they buy.
Ray is much easier to trade then Greinke is as of right now. Greinke talks will be difficult because most teams willing to take on the entire salary will not want to give up top prospects but it sounds like the snakes aren’t interested in just salary dumping Greinke. They want assets as well as salary relief which is pry why Ray has been the one receiving interest from teams for now.
Madbum to the Yankees make it happen
Brewers might be better off cashing in there 2 big chips ( Moose & Grandal) Get what you can for them before become free agent again… . This is a lost season. Go after one of them in the off season.Difficult pill to swallow, but it might be worth it.
I think the geeks in the metrics department know a lot more than we do. Trade Values has Ray worth 22.90 so it would take Frazier and Abreu 19.4-3.4.,Brewers Lutz and Hasley and Dominguez.
no way i give up frazier for ray. unless you are talking about caleb frazier who played on my son’s 8u LL team. that kid is a lefty and plays all 10 positions (short center). hits well off the tee too.
Ray is not what the yanks need to get over the hump. he’s happless part 2
I understand your point but Yankee fans have to realize Frazier is not valued like a lot you think he should be. A .825OPS for a corner OF is solid but add in below avg defense to this point and now you have a solid trade piece because of 4 more years of control but not a high end trade piece imo.
i was referring to Ray not Frazier and commenting on the idea that Frazier could be dealt for Ray which would make me hurl.
I like Ray. His walk and homer totals are worrisome however . He screams younger version of J.A Happ..and being an anime average mid rotation starter is nothing to roll your eyes at. I just wonder how he would play out in a place like yankee stadium
As an Astro fan I would like to see Correa traded while he still has a couple of years of control. It’s obvious he is waiting for FA and not interested in signing …it’s all about money for Correa. I would like to see a fair return for him with either a quality pitcher of equal value at another position say catcher ,3rd base or SS. With Correa a position player would probably not be equal value and other pieces will need to be added.
Did you watch the 2017 World Series? Correa plays the game with rare emotion and joy.
I’m sure he is wanting to get paid, but I don’t believe he is all about the money.
Agree with this one wholeheartedly. Think time to get something for him (SP) while you can. The injuries every year are taking a toll on his stock. Bergman can take over SS (natural position) and the Stros have enough 3B in the system to cover.
* Bregman; dang autocorrect…