The Astros and Giants are “engaged” in discussions regarding San Francisco lefty Madison Bumgarner, according to Tim Brown of Yahoo Sports (Twitter link). Long considered a major rental starter for this summer’s trade market, Bumgarner’s availability has increasingly come in question as the Giants have unexpectedly risen in the standings.
While Brown cautions that there’s no indication as to the seriousness of the discussions, it seems notable that there’s dialogue at all. Surely, these teams have plenty of other doors to knock upon if Bumgarner is completely off limits. But it appears he’s still alive in talks — to some unknown extent, at least.
The Houston organization is one of the game’s more obvious buyers of starting pitching. It’s hard to imagine that the team won’t come away with at least one new rotation piece before the dust settles tomorrow. While longer-term assets are preferable, particularly given the upcoming openings in the Houston staff beyond the current campaign, it seems the ’Stros are open to all possibilities.
Bumgarner is one of several hurlers that have long been on the Astros’ radar. The club is still exploring multiple targets. Reports earlier today pegged it the favorite to land Zack Wheeler from the Mets — the other top rental starter to feature in trade chatter this summer. Controllable arms such as Matt Boyd and Robbie Ray have also been connected to Houston.
No suprise that logic prevails as the deadline gets closer.
They aren’t engaged until it’s Facebook official
Lol.
Status: it’s complicated
Tom from Myspace approves!!
Great comment , lol
Not even a story!
no u
I thought farhan wasn’t but ok
Self Engaging
I am surprised that the Astros are targeting rentals. what is their 2020 rotation plan with Cole or Miley?
Could be that they are simply trying to give themselves a WS edge this year and will worry about next year later? They have a damn good team right now, so rentals seem like a good option.
Exactly. Now is the time to win. Cole will probably be gone at seasons end.
If they get Bumgarner they don’t have to face him. Makes sense to me.
If the Giants keep him no one will have to face him in the playoffs.
The Dodgers were never going to get MadBum, so the Stros would never have had to face him.
Yankees could be in play though
You understand that if the Twins or Yankees or Rays got him there is a chance they would have to face him in the postseason, right?
This exactly! Which is why the Giants MUST trade him. And the Astros will be the team to beat in the WS. That would be some rotation!
You know what’s funny, everyone said the same thing in 10, 12, and 14. They would never make it. Now, I even know that the odds are against the Giants even getting a wildcard spot, but hey, they aren’t where they are cause they’re losing.
It’s 19, not 20.
You understand that the Giants aren’t trading him, right? 2.5 games back going into a series in a small ballpark facing the Phillies crummy pitchers.
The Giants not selling is a massive mistake.
They have 4 guys that could bring them back some serious project capitol.
To delude yourself into thinking this team has a chance at the playoffs and sacrificing 4 or 5 good controllable prospects is something the Mets would do.
If they don’t sell, they will be in major regret within 2 weeks
This is a myth. The success rate of a July prospect turning into a player that plays two seasons in the bigs with a positive career WAR is 20 percent.
The success rate of the draft pick the Giants will get from QOing Bumgarner is even worse.
The thing about the Giants org is that they aren’t trying to enter a full rebuild mode, they are trying to stay relevant and compete while the 4 (Bart, Ramos, etc..) make there way up. This organization has wayyy to much money to break things all the way down.
If they do that they will never be competitive again
Don’t think so. Worst case bum walks and you get a compensatory first round pick. Unless their return is greater than that plus the goodwill they’ll lose w the team plus the goodwill they’ll lose w the players why would they trade him? Stupid comment
Says a guy who follows the Padres? That’s laughable! Never be competitive again? That’s why they have cash, they don’t always need homegrown talent. They trade, they sign, annnnd they teach!
I’d imagine they’d at least attempt to resign Cole, they have a lot of great offensive players at the upper levels of the minors , maybe they can trade some players to clear cap to extend him without sacrificing too much on the other side of the ball.
They’ve been trying to trade Reddick, maybe that happens this offseason. Salary dump trade for a flyer prospect, have Kyle Tucker be the everyday RF and resign Cole. Makes sense to me.
I would love for them to resign Cole, but I just don’t see it.
He will cost north of $200 million, the owner has said they will stay below the luxury tax threshold, and the team’s top 4 outfielders will all be free agents after next season.
Resigning Springer is a must. He is the heart and soul of the team and they have no one who can replace him.
He will be cheaper than Cole but still cost enough to make him unaffordable
You confusing Crane with Tillman? I have never heard Crane say that.
All other things equal, rentals will cost less in terms of prospects than players with more control. Unless they are willing to part with Tucker, Whitley or Alvarez I don’t see them getting any impact players who aren’t pending FA’s.
Verlander, McCullers, Peacock/James, Young guy from AAA, Free Agent is my guess as of now. I don’t see them re-signing Cole since you’re going to have Verlander at $30 million plus and Altuve’s $30 million plus contract kicks in next year. I’d be shocked if Cole doesn’t go $30 million plus also. You’d have three guys making close to $100 million which guarantees that Springer and Correa couldn’t be resigned. Springer would be heart breaking for me, Correa not so much.
Just like the Cubs will never be able to sign all of Bryant, Baez, Contreras and Rizzo, I don’t think the Stros can hold that whole core together.
Correa has 3 more years and Springer 2 more years
May resign Miley.
Cole is gone gone gone
They can’t afford him and Springer both and George must be the priority.
They have McCullers coming back from TJ. Peacock, Whitley, Urquidy, NC dude. Plenty of arms. Just injured and unproven.
If Zaidi moves MadBum at this point he’ll be hated by the fan base for the duration…
Yes, Zaidi is in quite a pickle
His job as the GM isn’t to be well-liked; it’s to put the Giants in the best position going forward. Despite their late surge I really can’t see them making any noise if they even manage to get into and/or win the Wild Card game. The Dodgers and Braves are much better teams and I think even the Nationals would handle them pretty easily with their starting 3 if Scherzer is healthy. Why double-down on this team if he can get some valuable prospects that can make the team better over the long-run? They can always re-sign Bumgarner in the offseason if he makes it to free agency.
I felt the suggestion that SF would be deadline buyers was just a smokescreen. Haven’t heard them linked to anyone in terms of acquisitions, and God knows they still need OFs. One way or another they better get busy because time is almost up.
Zaidi is not the GM. He’s president of baseball ops. Plus the experts said the same thing about the Giants and Nationals in 2014.
Getting valuable prospects? From who? The Mets just got Stroman who’s controllable and pitching better then MadBum for a couple of second tier prospects. There’s no haul to be had here. Farhan can always give him a qualifying offer at the end of the year and still get another year of close to prime MadBum or a compensatory pick both of which may be more valuable then the prospects they’d get in a trade.
He said in an interview that he wouldn’t be influenced by players or fans 😀
As a PBO, having to make decisions that might not be popular with fans comes with the territory. Trading Bumgarner doesn’t mean they can’t sign him in the offseason.
I’m a long-time Giants fan, and if Zaidi DOESN’T make some significant trades—including Bumgarner—he has failed the organization and the fans. The fans who think the Giants are contenders have been smoking too much weed. This is a poor team that finally (after 2.5 years) had a decent winning streak. This is no time to back off THE PLAN.
Where is this PLAN you speak of? Everything Farhan has said is about contending in 2019. He’s not operating with the Astros and Cubs playbook here. If anything, he’s doing what Oakland and LAD did, and they never fire-saled or tanked.
I am a fan and I wouldn’t mind it, if they can get something good in return, then go for it..The Giants don’t have the squad to go deep into the playoffs. Dickerson, Solano and Slater won’t be posting 900 ops all way through the end of season, Smith has been getting hit around of late, beede is coming up on his highest inning pitch total, so they will be monitoring that. Panik, posey, belt and Crawford are terrible this year. If they had produced like they should then they could of been a playoff team but not the way they are playing.
They are a playoff team THE WAY THEY ARE PLAYING (they have won 7 series in a row and are a .600 team for the past month or so. They most likely don’t even need to be a .600 team going forward to be in the race the last week of the year. .550 should get it done.
This isn’t fantasy baseball, y’all. You don’t just accumulate the stats together and see which team has more. Pitchers have to face batters. Fielders have to catch and throw the ball. The Giants gameplan is to play it close for the beginning of the game and take advantage of crummy pitchers other teams put out there eventually during a game/series.
Oh, speaking of crummy pitchers, here comes a series vs the Phillies in the small ballpark!! LIT.
And there getting shut out by a bum as we speak. There not consistent they had a nice little stretch but it happens every year. I remember when Indians won like 18 in a row 22/25 or something. They are not a play off team. They will be lucky to finish 5 games under . 500
If sf fan doesnt realize thier organization needs rebuilding, they are in denial. If they dont acquire at least some future prospects this deadline, they are only postponing getting back on track. As a Dodger fan, its much more exciting when the gnats have a competitive organization.
well then you should be excited because the giants have a competitive organization right meow.
And there getting shutout by Drew smyly lol 7.07 era. If they get shut out tonight, plan on a downward slide starting
Tell that to the dumb SF Giants Fans who believe in Santa Clause and think investing on Bridges is a good investment.
What does Tim Allen have to do with this?
Waiting for that Arizona & Atlanta engaged on Greinke to pop up
Somebody told me on Atlanta sports radio Rockies were talkin bout Gray, McGee & Osgod for Pache but I can’t find anything anywhere about it
A rotation of Verlander, Cole, Madbum, and Miley would solidify them in the playoffs. May as well so they have the option of offering one of the two an extension with free agency next year.
Unless Houston is willing to give up one of Tucker or Whitley then it’s not gonna happen. Houston just doesn’t have good prospects behind those two.
You do realize that Stroman, a better pitcher than MadBun right now with more control, was just traded for much less than Tucker and Whitley?
The Giants don’t need to move Bumgarner though. He loves it there and they are playoff contenders right now (even if it’s a long shot). It’s gonna take one of those two to entice the Giants to move him
You do realize that MadBum is the best post season pitcher of this generation right? So any team picking him up would be for that. Me suggesting Tucker or Whitley has more to do with the Astros poor farm system than MadBums value. The other top 5 prospects for the Astros a 1b/DH with no range, a guy that’s probably a reliever and a TJ guy. Like it’s not gonna happen.
The Astros farm system is ranked #7 in all of baseball. And that is AFTER they called up Alvarez and Straw.
Stroman has a career 113 ERA+. Bumagarner’s career ERA+ is 121. This season Bumgarner’s FIP is within .13 of Stroman’s, and has a better SO/9, BB/9, and SO/W ratio. Stroman is a more of an injury risk. It’s not clear at all that Stroman is the better pitcher.
Stroman has more control and the Astros farm is middle of the pack in the majors, which is light years ahead of the giants. MadBum would be my 4th or 5th choice of deadline acquisitions for the Astros (team I follow/root for), so please keep him in San Francisco and hopefully you guys get to the second wildcard. This isn’t 2014 anymore… I also said “right now” if this were pre 2017, madbum would be the superior pitcher. Keep dreaming about Whitley and Tucker. Joke to suggest 3 months of 2019 MadBum is worth a top 20 MLB prospect.
The giants far is ranked 15 by baseball America, so the astros aren’t really light years better. In fact the giants are literally “middle of the pack”
He’s not better than bumgarner man what you toking?
For a rental? Surely you jest. I’d love to have Madbum for the playoff run but not at that cost. Luhnow has earned a lot of trust and faith from Astros fans but he’d burn it all in a second if he made a deal that dumb.
Houston isn’t trading Tucker or Whitley for a rental. They have already turned down better offers for those guys that have control no chance that happens.
Oh, Its Gonna Happen
This deal would make absolutely no sense. Bomgardner is a free agent at the end of the season and the Astros are looking for starting pitchers with years of control just in case Cole leaves at the end of the season. This would be a very lateral move.
It would be a win now move.
There’s nothing wrong with a rental if it gets you another World Series. You just don’t give up your top prospects to do it.
The thing is their prospects behind those 2 are trash, and the Giants aren’t gonna trade a fan favorite for trash.
Not true. Those are just their top 2. The Astros aren’t as stacked in the minors as they used to be but they still have 4 in the top 100. Those two are top 10 though. There is zero chance of any organization giving up a top 10 prospect for a rental. I don’t care who he is.
Who’s to say they can’t lock him up at the end of the year? You never know, and taking a risk like this could ultimately win them another title. Cole, madbum and Verlander in post season pshhh get out of here. That’s prob one of the best trio’s you could put out there
If there’s any truth to this rumor(which I doubt there is), then this is just a case of Zaidi doing his due diligence. When a team as good the Astros who still have a good farm system calls, you listen. Farhan will probably ask for Kyle Tucker and Forest whitley, which is when Luhnow would and should just hang up.
Agreed. I think much of Farhan’s next 24 hours will be alot of this. The Giants will be approached by other teams and since they dont have to sell, will ask for the stars in return. If a team gets desperate enough to blow him away with an offer, he’ll pull the trigger. Otherwise, he’ll be making baseball moves and trading from the bullpen surplus.
A lot of dumb comments today on the comment board unfortunately
Feels like a normal Tuesday.
The Astros are on Bumgarner’s no-trade list & while it may sound crazy to turn down a trade to a World Series contender, Bumgarner just might do it in order to finish the season out ith Bochy.
I figured he did that for negotiating power.
This seems like something the Astros would float out there in order to try to lower the asking prices of their other, actual trade targets.
If the Giants were shopping Bumgarner, they’d be in contact with multiple teams and we’d have likely heard far more rumors with him.
That’s pure speculation. You can be assured that all the buyers and sellers are in contact with each other. Clearly the Astros/Bumgarner talks have progressed beyond contact. Not to say anything will happen, nothing probably will, since the majority of talks don’t result in a trade. But to assume there’s no contact between the Giants and other buyers is silly.
Exactly. If the Astros are in heavy on Wheeler, it only helps them to have the Mets hear that they’re engaged on Bumgarner, Boyd, etc.
Without knowing any Astro’s players in the discussion, I’d have to guess this is mostly talk.
As an owner of Kyle Tucker in multiple dynasty leagues, I request he not be part of this deal….
This post made me laugh.
I take it prob would be Seth beer and another prospect. I doubt Tucker would have to be apart of it. Now if they added Smith then Tucker could be a requested return easily
I wouldn’t be thrilled about giving up Beer, but that is at least a possibility. No chance on Tucker.
“Now if they added Smith (to Bumgarner) then Tucker could be a requested return easily.” I think this makes sense, too. It might even be Watson who is not a rental.
I agree Pete. Watson would be a great fit, even dyson or moronta. Add any of those with madbum could get a nice return. I know that Farhan will only pull the trigger if he gets some good prospects in return.
Moronta and Bumgarner would definitely get the tucker/whitley train rolling. I really like moronta but adon is coming up and they’re basically the same player
Same player just adon throws 103 lol. He has the highest avg FB out of all minor Leaguers. Like 99.2 or something crazy.
It’s going to be a King’s ransom or it’s not happening. They could even package him with smith, but unless it’s an amazing haul, it’s not happening.
We will see
I’m not sure why not. Seems like it’s pretty common knowledge that Madbum loves it in San Fran and will likely sigh with them next year. Why not trade him to the Astros for a couple months. San Fran gets a few prospects, Houston gets a World Series, then Madbum goes back to San Fran next year and everyone is happy. Seems like a win/win.
That play has worked one time with Chapman (who the Yankees did not draft). Also, if he’s traded off a team within 3 games of the playoffs, why on Earth would he want to sign back with them?! They’ve shown they don’t care about winning in the short-term. Plus, if he’s traded, the acquiring team can’t offer him a qualifying offer, opening up more suitors to offer more money since they won’t have to give up a draft pick. Lastly, MadBum seems to have a lot of pride that he would need to swallow to come back and the Giants aren’t going to have Bochy next year. If he’s traded, I doubt he’s coming back.
If Giants want to make an offer to him after the season, they should keep him.
Why on earth would he sign back with the Giants? Maybe because he loves being a Giant and wants to be there for his entire career. He has 3 World Series rings so not desperate. He wants to to keep pitching and is obviously beloved in SF. He also signed a very friendly team deal so he is not in it just for the money. Some people just want to be happy and SF is still a pitcher’s park…
I was joking, mostly. It could certainly happen though.
I hope Bumgarner goes to the Astros so we can destroy him in the World Series.
Dodgers will only implode in the World Series. Everyone knows it. It’s kind of like their thing now.
You’ve gotta be like 11 years old, right ?
Who do you think is going to “destroy” Bumgarner? Only a Dodger fan would have such hubris.
I wanna hear 3 years from now if he makes s run this year with the Giants and they don’t make the WC how many Giant fans will be calling for his head.
This man is paid to do what is in the best interest of the ballclub not the fan base. All offseason Giant fans wanted Harper. How is that looking for philly this year and their stadium is a bandbox. Imagine what he would be doin in that park if Giant fans got what they wanted.
Fans are gonna want a President fired for trying to win? Hmm. Sounds like a first for me.
None of us know how negotiations between Bumgarner and the Giants have gone regarding an extension. I’m sure the Giants have an idea what Bumgarner wants. He already gave them a discount. He’s probably not going to do that again. In my estimation, he’s 18-20M per year. If he’s asking for 25-30M, it’s easy- move him because you’re not going to come close to that. If he’s willing to re-sign for something lower than try to keep him unless another team panics and offers up a return that you can’t refuse.
5/$115M
Unfortunately, five years for Bumgarner would be a mistake —for any team. Three years.
Odds are they haven’t talked about an extension period. This was a wait and see year and I don’t think teams jump into extension talks midseason. The decisions will be whether to trade him. If they don’t trade him, they will give him the qualifying offer, so then it’s on Madison to accept/reject that. Then the Giants will give an offer and it’ll be on Madison to decide if it’s big enough.
This isn’t rocket science, people. Dude’s still a good pitcher and still the best pitcher they have and still has years left in the tank.
He be doing worse lol
I’m sure this engagement lasted five seconds after Farhan told them they would need Tucker. haha.
If Zaidi can land Martin and Nova for Bum, or even another piece above them for adding Watson to the deal, don’t be surprised if this gets done. It won’t be Whitley or Tucker, but . . . .
Then it won’t get done. Giants are within 3 games of the playoffs, can hold Bumgarner to finish off one last playoff run with Bochy, and worst case pocket a Top 100 draft pick next year if Bum leaves, but my guess is Bum stays and signs a modest extension similar to what Kershaw got last year.
Think this is pretty close to fake news. Farhan would lose his clubhouse if he traded Madison only 3 games out of the playoffs. And he’ll have a new manager next year, so losing the clubhouse would be near fatal to the team for years to come.
Let’s see how this plays out if they lose the opening game in Philly tonight and fall another game back.
You do know the Phillies are throwing Drew Smyly in their small ballpark backed up by their terrible bullpen, right? Giants should get the dub tonight pretty easily.
You know that, and I know that, but the Giants have made lesser pitchers into Cy Young this year.
That’s the thing they should, just like they should of won some games against the Marlin’s and Orioles this year among a bunch others against weak pitching but they got shut out because of the main core not hitting. Posey, Crawford, belt, panik. Just like they will continue to hit the remainder of season. That’s why they are not a playoff team, because of those 4 slacking like bosses.
No offense to the Yahoo writer, but if this had any legs, multiple more well-known reporters would be on it.
I’m guessing this was leaked by Astros to lower the price they’ll have to pay on Wheeler.
In general, Giants fans have been supportive of choosing loyalty over logic when it comes to the players responsible for the three championships. It’s going to take an overwhelming offer to make a Bumgarner trade acceptable for anybody other than the most pragmatic fans. It’s simply the psychology of a Giants fan – many of us lived for decades wondering if they would ever win a title. The concept of letting go of their #1 World Series hero in the midst of a bewildering run that has them in playoff contention with essentially a last place roster – that’s going to be intolerable.
The bottom line is, Zaidi will get a pass for not dealing Bumgarner. He can simply say that he didn’t get a compelling enough offer, and most of us will believe it, given how slow the market has been.
Or he can just keep his ace because he’s only 2.5 games out of the playoffs. This isn’t that hard, people.
Another thing to consider here, MadBum has a no trade to most if not all of the teams he is linked to.
It’s likely that he will make a demand, such as an extension or bonus to accept any deal.
That changes the return. Better or worse, who knows, it depends on what he insists on.
Why would he want an extension as part of the deal? The team would be the ones that want that.
And if he wanted an extension, the Giants would have already signed him to one and we wouldn’t be hearing about them trading him.
The NTC is so that Bumgarner can choose to go to the contender who he thinks has the best chance of winning this year, rather than being thrown into a situation like the one Stroman just got thrown into.
Not if he wants a longer deal or higher annual salary than he can get on the open market
Unless he is planning on retiring, the only reason for not signing an extension if offered is money or location.
Either SF didn’t offer one, they lowballed him, or he doesn’t want to be there.
The NTC gives him the power
It gives him leverage if the Giants were out of the hunt and there were more than one offer. This would have all been best to be worked out beforehand. Probably why there has never been an offer made, according to reports (all the talks have been on background). From a running a professional business point of view, it’d be pretty outlandish for the Giants to run up to him after tonight’s game and say “Hey, we want to trade you to Houston!! Will you waive your no trade? (I’m sure they’d go through his agent, but it’s still not a good look. They either had a heart-to-heart talk with him a few days ago or they didn’t. My bet would be they didn’t, especially considering he’s made comments after his last two starts indicating he wants to stay in SF.
So, without involving his NTC, there’s essentially 4 contending teams Farhan can trade him to that would need him: Rays, A’s, Angels, and Twins. And the NTC gives those four teams leverage.
I just don’t see it happening at this 11th hour.
The Giants not doing anything would be 100 times better than them buying, but I agree they should sell, sell, sell. Not an “everything go must sale” but they have 3 guys that would EASILY get back some great returns in Will Smith, Tony Watson, and most importantly Mad Bum. Late run be dammed, this is not anything but an average/mediocre NL team (of course that fits about 60% of all NL teams though) and not getting some returns back for those players sets them back 2 of 3 years. And really, they’d have no one to blame but themselves for that, since apart from a 4 week stretch they were a middling team. At least the Phillies, Royals and Tigers had all won, still looked good, and tried to make one more run at a title before things blew up. None of them did, and it set all 3 franchises back on the reboot trail. The Giants haven’t won in 5 years and were last/second to last in the division the last 2 years. Don’t make the same mistakes the Phillies, Tigers, and Royals made.
Except “buying” is cheaper than ever and they only need to buy hitters, none of the available ones are marque superstars, by the way. They could easily snag some rental RH bats like Castellanos, Puig, Todd Frazier, Kinsler, etc. for next to nothing (maybe an old AA player of a AAA pitcher they don’t need).
How do you think they got their capable OF to replace the dudes they broke camp with that weren’t MLB starters? They bought them for next to nothing (spare parts and lame prospects mostly).
Let’s also remember Bumgarner has a no trade clause to a lot of teams, including the Astros, putting the likelihood of a deal coming together at this 11th hour even more unlikey. Giants play a game in 1 hour. Even if Farhan gets a deal done during the game tonight, I doubt they ask Madison to approve a deal while his boys are playing. So, if they ask for him to waive his no trade right after the game is over, he’d have 12 hours to make the decision. Pretty unfair. IF he’s traded, a big IF this late, it’d probs be best to do it to one of the teams on his no trade list (probs the Twins most likely).
I just don’t see it happening. This was leaked to help the Astros positioning in regards to other pitching targets. It was probs leaked to many other reportes, as well, but this one was the only one who tweeted about it.
So to trade him to the Astros, Farhan would have to (1) get a deal done, (2) then approach MadBum/his agent, who has publicly said he wants to stay and (3) risk MadBum using his no trade clause and staying on the team, but knowing the new President executed a deal to trade him away, killing any possibility of SF extending him. Too many moving parts. The decision to trade MadBum was made days or a week ago, and I would bet it was made to not trade him.
And the only thing that will change any of this is when we hear about the Twins circling back to Zaidi.