The Marlins have been roundly criticized for trades in recent years, deals that have come thanks in part to a desire to cut payroll. Outfielders Christian Yelich, Giancarlo Stanton and Marcell Ozuna, second baseman Dee Gordon and catcher J.T. Realmuto are all prominent players the rebuilding Marlins, stuck in a soon-to-be 16-year playoff drought, have traded away since the end of the 2017 season.
While the Marlins’ decisions since co-owner Derek Jeter took the reins in 2017 haven’t come without protests, at least one of the trades they’ve made under him is paying significant dividends at the MLB level.
In November ’17, a few months after the former Yankees shortstop took the Marlins’ reins, his new team seemingly took advantage of his previous franchise. Miami acquired left-hander Caleb Smith and first baseman/outfielder Garrett Cooper from New York for right-handed pitching prospect Mike King and $250K in international bonus pool money. The Yankees did so in part in an effort to pad their offer to then-free agent Shohei Ohtani, but he ultimately signed with the Angels.
Now, with the World Series-contending Yankees on the hunt for another credible starter, the current version of Smith would fit into their rotation. But Smith, now 27, didn’t get much of a chance with the Bombers. A 14th-round pick of the Yankees in 2013, Smith reached the majors for the first time in 2017 – the season before the trade – and struggled over 18 2/3 innings. Since then, though, Smith has performed like a legitimate major league rotation piece for the Marlins. Dating back to 2018, he has pitched to a 3.83 ERA/4.09 FIP with 10.67 K/9 against 3.33 BB/9, albeit with an awful 28.7 percent groundball rate, in 143 1/3 innings. Among starters who have thrown at least 140 frames since last year, Smith ranks 15th in strikeout rate.
Although Smith has been on the injured list since June 7 with a hip problem, teams still figure to approach the Marlins with interest in him going into the July 31 trade deadline. However, the Marlins don’t seem willing to trade Smith, who won’t be eligible for arbitration until after 2020 or free agency until the conclusion of the 2023 campaign.
The Marlins may have stumbled on a long-term piece in Smith. The same holds true for Cooper, who comes with the same amount of control as Smith. Cooper, a sixth-rounder of the Brewers in 2013, went to the Yankees in July 2017 in a deal for now-Cardinals reliever Tyler Webb. Cooper didn’t look like much more than the potential right-handed side of a first base platoon at the time, and injuries limited him to fewer than 100 plate appearances between the majors and minors last season. This year, though, Cooper’s taking advantage of his chance on a woeful Miami team.
Although the Marlins rank second to last in the majors in runs, their problems haven’t been Cooper’s fault. The 28-year-old has easily been their best hitter, in fact. He’s off to a .317/.383/.488 start (134 wRC+) with seven home runs across 183 plate appearances in his first extensive major league experience. Whether Cooper can keep it up is the question.
The bad: Cooper’s .388 batting average on balls in play is nowhere near sustainable, nor will 35 percent of his fly balls keep leaving the yard. Likewise, it’s concerning that Cooper’s hitting ground balls upward of 55 percent of the time, especially considering he’s hardly a speed demon. His 16.3 percent fly ball rate ranks last among hitters who have totaled 180-plus PA this year. That isn’t necessarily a death knell to his production, granted, as the great Ohtani ranks just two spots better. Cooper’s also having immense difficulty against left-handed pitchers, oddly enough. While he has smacked righties to the tune of a .400 wOBA, southpaws have held him to a .298 mark.
In more encouraging news, Cooper’s strikeout, walk and contact rates are all hovering around average. Better still, Statcast indicates Cooper’s expected slugging percentage (73rd percentile), hard-hit percentage (75th percentile), expected weighted on-base average (83rd percentile) and expected batting average (95th percentile) are all good to exemplary. His .371 xwOBA is essentially right in line with a .376 wOBA that ties him with Max Kepler and Yoan Moncada. All of that suggests Cooper will keep making an impact so long as he continues making contact.
At 32-50, this hasn’t been a victory-laden season for the Marlins, but you take the wins where you can. And it looks as if the team prevailed on its end of this trade with the Yankees, a club so loaded that they can get away with letting go of useful contributors without getting a lot back. The Marlins aren’t as fortunate, but it seems they landed a pair of quality pieces in Smith and Cooper.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
SecsSeksSecks
I think the Realmuto trade will work out too. I would take half a decade plus of Alfaro and Sixto Sanchez over 2 years of Realmuto the way he is playing now.
SecsSeksSecks
And to think that the Marlins actually tried to get Johan Camargo, Ian Anderson and Austin friggin’ Riley for 2 years of J.T. is just insane.
stretch123
Gotta aim high for all star players being trade out of your organization. Especially all star catchers. Those don’t just grow on trees.
SecsSeksSecks
There’s a difference between aiming high and trying to shoot the moon. The problem was the logic they used when dealing with the Braves. They only wanted the Braves to pay that much because they felt like Atlanta had more good top prospects than the Phillies. If they had just asked for 2 of those guys they might have pulled it off… even if one of the two was Riley. It makes no sense to take a worse offer from the Phillies just because the Braves had a better farm system. Marlins fans can’t tell me now they would rather have Alfaro and Sixto over Camargo and Riley. AA talked about it a lot. It was like they thought the Braves should be forced to value their prospects less because they had more of them. The fact that the Braves had more prospects did not lower their value at all from the Marlins point of view but they tried to act like it did as a negotiating tactic. I for one am glad. Riley for Realmuto straight up would have been a terrible trade for the Braves.
Show Me Your Tatis
Do we have any source other than just you that says the Braves offered Riley and Camargo for JTR?
SecsSeksSecks
mobile.twitter.com/mlbbowman/status/10936087746596…
SecsSeksSecks
More sources coming. That was just the first I could find in a few seconds. That one at least proves the Braves offered Riley straight up. More sources to come. “Each” of their prospects is a key term there. It means they would trade any prospect straight up. In that post is specifies Riley specifically. I will find more about Riley and Camargo together.
SecsSeksSecks
google.com/amp/s/www.talkingchop.com/platform/amp/…
SecsSeksSecks
mlb.com/news/will-braves-revisit-trade-deadline-ta…
SecsSeksSecks
That’s all the supporting evidence I have at this exact moment. I spent several minutes locating and copying/pasting all those links. None of them prove my EXACT statement but the only part they don’t prove is that Camargo would definitely be one of the other players. They all prove that Riley was either offered or blatantly on the table (depending on which article you look at). It was also obvious in those links that it wouldn’t just be Riley but at least 1 other high end prospect (Ian Anderson was specifically mentioned as a suspected inclusion). I will find more over time. I know their is a specific quote by Alex Anthopolus about how one team is trying to use the fact that the Braves have a better farm system as a justified reason to expect the Braves to give up more top prospects than any other team they were negotiating with. That quote occurred during a press conference where he was specifically discussing the JT Realmuto trade potential and most (if not all) reporters were saying that the Marlins were the only team he was negotiating with at the time. I will find that linkn and more for sure. I have at the very least proven, without question, that the Marlins were not interested in Austin Riley and at least 1 other very high end prospect. That has to hurt for Marlins fans. Would Miami rather have a strikeout prone catcher and an EXTREMELY (I cannot emphasize that enough) injury prone pitcher or a top prospect plus Austin Riley? Keep in mind that injury prone pitchers almost always stay injury prone because their delivery is simultaneously what makes them good as well as injured. If the braves were to offer Austin Riley straight up for Alfaro and Sixto right now every Marlins fan would want it and every employee in the Marlins front office would be elated. Now consider the fact that the Marlins turned down an offer which included Riley and at least 1 other TOP prospect. Not just a top prospect from any team. A top prospect from a team that has many of the best prospects in baseball.
phillyphan81
100% a trade the Phillies made to make a splash. In terms of giving up your top pitching prospect, the difference between JT and Jorge isn’t much. Easily going to come back to bite Klentak in the hind quarters
pasha2k
Talk about bad trades.
Danthemilwfan
Yelich trade still may work out. The top piece sucks but the other 3 are ready to succeed
nubbz18
They traded away Christian Yelich. That’s an L no matter what the other guys turn out to be
sdsuphilip
definitely not
pinstripes17
None of those guys will ever be a potentially back to back MVP like Yelich
GareBear
If, theoretically, the Brewers were out of contention and they decided to trade Yelich right now they would receive a better package than the Marlins received despite having less team control. That is a huge loss regardless of how the fringe prospects the Marlins got turn out.
Slipknot37
The ozuna trade looks good. Alcantara has looked pretry good and so has zac gallen. But I think the Cooper/smith trade was a big time win.
holecamels35
Easier to give players opportunities when your roster is so poor. Obviously guys like these wouldn’t get a shot in NY.
OofAndYikes
Smith wouldn’t be given a shot in a pre Happ/Paxton Yankee rotation? Or Cooper at 1B pre Voit?
davidkaner
Marlins with Jeter at the helm, tore it down without a notion that most of the prospects they got back would never be close to what they traded away. They deserve to be at the bottom, wasting away to nothingness.
ColossusOfClout
Except they’re not wasting away, they’re actually showing signs of improvement.
Louiebeans
They gave away a lot and I mean a lot of good players,
I would have just gotten outta the Stanton contract and kept everyone else and build from there.
Show Me Your Tatis
You would have then lost Ozuna and Realmuto a few years later for absolutely nothing and the Marlins would still have not made the postseason since 2003.
hiflew
Yeah, they might be able to pass the Mets for fourth place by the end of the year if they try really hard. That would be a sign of improvement, but it’s not necessarily what a franchise should be gunning for.
PopeMarley
Reading your negative hyperbole makes it sound like Jeter’s group has been running the Marlins for like a decade instead of less than two years. lofl
Polish Hammer
Maybe not but things were supposedly going to change with the new crew yet they still run it like a AAAA franchise. These pieces will be groomed to be dealt just like the last ones, and the vicious cycle continues as they groom to show talent to be dealt for prospects to be groomed…
Show Me Your Tatis
Stanton and Ozuna trades are working out pretty well for Miami. You can argue the Realmuto trade is too as he moves closer and closer to FA.
SecsSeksSecks
Even if one of only Alfaro or Sixto turns out to be at least an average player, I would have to say that deal worked out for the Marlins. They get the players for a longer term, they save money and Realmuto is showing more and more that last season may actually have been an anomaly. He is looking quite average these days. He reminds me of JT Realmuto every year other than 2018. The Marlins probably could have gotten more than what they did in that trade but regardless they still got more than what Realmuto was actually worth.
sdsuphilip
JT is on pace for 4+ war(p) season by all 3 of the main sites even with his hitting regression. Alfaro has the kind of profile of a guy who can flame out and drop off quickly with dreadful plate discipline and merely ok defense. Sixto could be special but he also has never stayed healthy and handled close to a starter workload. We will see how it works out and it may for Miami but I think I’d take philly’s side
SecsSeksSecks
The biggest problem with the Philly side is the fact that JT is only signed through next season. Do you think that he is really going to end up adding more wins over that short period of time than Sixto and Alfaro combined are going to add over the next half decade+?
Show Me Your Tatis
Marlins HAD to trade JTR last offseason. If Sanchez and Alfaro bust then the trade is a wash.
sdsuphilip
The value of 8 wins over 2 seasons is far more than the value of 10 wins over 8 seasons or however long. Playing time+roster space has significant value
SecsSeksSecks
It’s true they had to trade him but it wouldn’t be a wash because they could’ve had Riley and Camargo or Ian Anderson instead of Alfaro and Sixto. Compare those guys and leave Realmuto out of the equation if you wanna determine if it was worth it. They walked away from better players to get inferior players. The Marlins logic behind it was that the Braves should have to pay A LOT more than the Phil’s because the Braves have a deeper farm system. Riley + Camargo or Anderson is already more than Alfaro + Sixto. Why did it have to be all 3 when they already had their best offer. It was a terrible negotiating tactic and it hurts the Marlins fans more in the end. The Braves benefited from it most by keeping Riley. You can’t tell me that Marlins fans would rather have Alfaro and Sixto over Riley straight up. Much less Riley + a good MLB proven player or Riley + a likely future ace with zero health problems.
Mjm117
“they could’ve had Riley and Camargo or Ian Anderson”
Had atlanta truly offered the Marlins, Riley, Ian, and Camargo, JTR would’ve been the Braves backstop today.
But please continue with irrational & negataive hyperbole.
SecsSeksSecks
I said “or.” Not all three. That was the kicker. The Marlins wanted all three. Riley and Camargo was a non starter according to them because they felt like the Braves had so much more to give. If the Braves offered all three he would be our backstop. The Braves aren’t that stupid. The Marlins should have taken any deal that involved Riley period. Even if it were straight up. They weren’t even willing to take Riley with Camargo. Dumb decision by the Marlins. I might be wrong but I believe AA suggested he would even consider Riley Camargo and Allard but that wouldn’t be enough either. It had to be Riley, Camargo, AND Anderson for the Marlins to budge while looking at the Braves minor league bank account. How dumb is that. Austin Riley could have easily been a Marlin. Instead they have a strikeout prone catcher and a very seriously injury prone minor league pitcher.
Show Me Your Tatis
The Marlins were never going to contend in 2019=20 so all those 8 wins from Realmuto would have done is hurt their draft position.
sdsuphilip
You must not realize how trade value works
andrewf
Garrett Cooper was drafted sixth round in 2013, not 2006.
Zer0
Why is people sleeping on Mike King? It’s not like Caleb Smith is an ace.
OofAndYikes
The Realmuto/Ozuna trades were good too, the Stanton trade is very iffy return wise. Castro has cratered this season, Jorge Guzman is proving his future is in the pen, but Jose Devers has been the bright spot, especially after being an all star in high A while being one of the youngest players in that league.
Show Me Your Tatis
The real return of the Stanton trade was getting his contract off the books.
sdsuphilip
Yeah saving ownership money they can pocket is a big win
Polish Hammer
More money to spend on a stupid fish display that spins in the OF…
hiflew
How exactly does ownership saving money equal a win? It’ not a win for the fans because that money is not going to another part of the team. It is being used to pay for the vast overpay for the franchise.
It is just dumbfounding how fans can look at anything other than player performance as a win or loss. IT’S NOT YOUR MONEY! Who cares what these guys are paid? If they unload a contract for peanuts like Stanton, that is not a win for the Marlins. That is the Yankees being gifted with a high priced free agent without having to compete with Boston, LA, Chicago, or any other of the deep pocketed teams.
Show Me Your Tatis
It is certainly a win if Stanton can’t stay healthy and decline hits him hard once he enters his 30’s. Unless he turns things around fast you can forget about him opting out.
Polish Hammer
That one flew high over hiflew’s head as I believe sdsuphilip was being sarcastic as the cheap AAAA franchise.
hiflew
What flew over your head is that I was not replying to sdsuphilip. I was replying to SMYT. So maybe instead of looking for a place to insert your snarky comment insulting someone, you should follow the advice of Abraham Lincoln. It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
hiflew
Stanton’s play in his first year with the Yankees already makes it a win. The two stiffs the Marlins got will not outperform Stanton’s first year. Even if he never plays another game for the Yankees, it is still a win for them.
Polish Hammer
Sure thing kid, nice try trying to play it off you were talking to somebody other than the one that specifically posted about Marlins ownership saving money being a win not to mention your reply links right to that post and not the one above it.
andrewgauldin
One can argue simply getting rid of the contract has been a win for Miami. Stanton being injured obviously isn’t great but it definitely tilts the scale even more in favor of Miami.
Polish Hammer
Win? Does anybody honestly think that Stanton would’ve played through that contract in Miami? Even half of the years? No way!!! They signed a guy they had to know would not be around long, the win after the huge fail was being able to unload that contract elsewhere.
Show Me Your Tatis
Absolutely. He’s not going to opt out.
Polish Hammer
He would never need to get far enough to opt out. do you honestly think the organization would’ve footed the bill to keep him in the organization the full length of the deal?
Show Me Your Tatis
They might not have had any choice in the matter
sheff86
I’ll take Voit over Cooper.
Smith would have never pitched like that in NY. He had his chance. They couldn’t wait for him to develop…they were gearing up for a playoff run.
gavinrendar
Not really seeing why they’re criticized for the Stanton deal anymore. I’m not thinking Stanton would get his current contract in FA right now, and certainly not the contract while ALSO giving up those prospects.
Salary is half of the calculation of surplus value, and fans seem to forget that.
hiflew
What prospects? They got virtually nothing for an MVP candidate. Besides, Stanton wouldn’t be signing his contract NOW. Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera wouldn’t get their contracts NOW, but when they were signed they definitely would have.
If Stanton went to the open market, he would have easily gotten his deal. Especially when you consider LA, the other LA, Boston, Chicago, the other Chicago, SF, St. Louis, and several other deep pocketed teams would have been running up the bidding against the Yanks. It’s quite possible he could have gotten an even bigger contract.
hiflew
FANS don’t forget, they simply don’t care about stuff like surplus value.
Show Me Your Tatis
Yes. Because the casual fan CLEARLY knows what’s best as far as running a team goes. Not the seasoned baseball minds they have working in the FO.
hiflew
Yes, but the casual fan CLEARLY are the ones that spend the money that allow those seasoned baseball minds working in the FO to operate. And those casual fans don’t spend their money on teams like the Marlins that sell off players they know. Sure hardcore fans realize that sometimes those moves need to be made, but hardcore fans are not numerous enough to make a difference. Baseball teams need to make casual fans happier than hardcore fans, because the hardcore are likely to remain regardless of what happens.
gavinrendar
They should. Opportunity costs are a real thing, especially when it comes to rostering players.
hiflew
No they shouldn’t. Casual fans don’t care about that. They don’t want to know about the PEDs, they just want to see McGwire and Bonds hit homers to the moon. They don’t want to see 7 pitchers in a game because the match ups call for it, they want to see Kershaw or Verlander pitch regardless. Most people don’t care about the way the sausage is made, they just want to eat it.
greg 14
everyone wins some, lose some. Cooper wouldn’t play because of Voit, who the NYY’s stole from STL. King was in line the be in the rotation before he got injured. Never know.
roncox20
The Marlins starting rotation ranks 8th in MLB across ERA, WHIP and FIP, in just the second year of a rebuild. The team has gone 22-19 over its last 41, reversing the early season start of 10-31 in its first 41 games. That reversal results from good starting pitching, good defense, and improved hitting, from just 2.5 runs scored in the first 41 games to 4.7 runs per game in the last 41, coinciding with the Cooper and Ramirez callups. The starting pitching depth in the minors, very much a product of trades and drafting, has produced as many as 15 pitchers who are putting up very good to excellent numbers, giving the team pitching depth that they have never had in the history of the franchise. 2B. Isan Diaz and OF Monte Harrison are both having very good seasons in AAA, with Díaz putting up 19 homers as a 2B. Both will be up before the end of the year. And the consensus among scouts is that the team excelled in the first year player draft this year, adding bats to an already deep organizational pitching staff. So the uninformed haters have nothing to back up their words. The Marlins gave up a prior team that averaged 75 wins with one of the best outfields in baseball—necessary because there was no other way to add pitching and organizational depth. And the supposed nothing the team got for Stanton, who has hardly played this year, is arguably the shortstop of the future and a future major league closer even though the team had no leverage in that trade. The Mets chose a different path, and it has been a dismal failure. Let’s see where the team is the rest of this season and especially in two years, jokers.
Polish Hammer
Rebuild? I don’t think you should call it a rebuild if they’re constantly under construction.