Major League Baseball and the MLB Players’ Association have been circling one another warily for some time now, with occasional moments of accord but a pervasive sense of tension. Now, as Tyler Kepner of the New York Times reports, they’re headed back to the formal bargaining table long before the expiration of the current collective bargaining agreement at the tail end of the 2021 season.
Ever since the last Basic Agreement was hammered out, readily discernible changes in teams’ market behavior have spurred growing unhappiness from the players’ side. Union chief Tony Clark put it in stark terms to Kepner, saying flatly that “the system doesn’t work.” He also offered a warning: “either we’re going to have a conversation now, or we’re going to have a louder conversation later.”
Of course, there were indications of systemic problems even before the latest CBA, with increasingly analytically advanced teams finding new ways to achieve cost-efficient on-field performance. But the changes to the game’s governing document only exacerbated matters for players, with new luxury tax rules creating new spending disincentives for teams. After two tense winters, we saw a dizzying run of extensions this spring. That spate of dealing seemingly reflected some fear and uncertainty in the free agent process as well as labor peace more generally. It put new money in players’ pockets, but also took quite a few potentially valuable seasons of future performance out of future open-market scenarios.
Over the past two and a half years, the MLBPA has hired a chief negotiator, added a familiar face to advise on PR, launched a still-unresolved grievance action against several teams, and otherwise made clear it is readying for a larger battle. While the league and union attempted to sort through a range of matters over the offseason, only a few rule changes were implemented.
Every on-field or transactional tweak proposed has understandably been viewed through a broader economic lens. MLB commissioner Rob Manfred’s pace-of-play initiatives have met headwinds from the players, perhaps owing to a need to find leverage that’s otherwise lacking. After all, the CBA is binding until it expires. And the players’ side will face many challenges in winning a better deal.
All of those developments have felt like a prelude to the unusual and potentially quite complicated process that is now being plotted out. Understandably, the initial discussion is a logistical one. Kepner says that the bigwigs on both sides of the aisle have chatted in person about how to approach this early engagement on the CBA.
On the league side, deputy commissioner Dan Halem says the goal is “a system that satisfies our competitive-balance concerns and basically keeps the overall economics where they are — but at the same time addresses the issues that [the players are] going to bring to us.” He reemphasized MLB’s oft-stated position that the players continue to enjoy the same-sized pie slice they always have, framing the matter as “really a distribution issue.”
It’s unlikely that Clark and company would fully agree with that sentiment. All can agree broadly with the goals of enhancing competition and ensuring that the game’s best talent is playing in the majors as soon as it’s ready. But the players also desire those results because they hope to unlock new earning avenues for more of their members. Per Kepner, they also wish to “restor[e] meaningful free agency” and improve the earning power of players with lesser service time. That sounds like something quite a bit different from redistribution; it sounds like the players ultimately want more pie. There are different ways to count the leaguewide dollars and cents. The players will undoubtedly argue their share has fallen and seek more.
athleticsnchill
Ah yes, those immensely petty grievances. I almost forgot about those.
Joe Kerr
I’m just happy they are trying to work things out so there wont be a work stoppage.
athleticsnchill
Sure, but throwing out grievances the way they did was a cheap attempt to save face. They knew they didn’t do enough during the previous negotiations, and teams that don’t spend as much are easy targets.
bjupton100
It’s not an opinion they are earning less of the pie. I understand the reason. They’ll end up making everyone a super two player to try and even it out but if they get seven years, you don’t get up until 22-23 usually at the earliest and players aren’t being payed well in their late twenties early thirties this is the result.
nutbunnies
If MLB teams truly believe that players 30 and up aren’t worth paying much money for, this is how the MLBPA should start negotiations:
– Remove caps on draft and IFA
– Arbitration starts after one season
– Restricted free agency starts after 3 years
– Unrestricted after 4 years
athleticsnchill
Then you run into the problem of the wealthiest teams getting the best talent, which doesn’t help competitive balance.
nutbunnies
Competitive balance is probably worse than it has been in, what, 50+ years right now? Maybe longer? And that’s with a restrictive luxury tax that penny pinching owners are treating as a salary cap!
shoewizard
Can you quantify this or point me in the direction of a recent study that verifies this ? Thanks.
martras
Competitive balance continues to be exceptional in baseball.
In the past 10 years, 13 teams have gone to the World Series:
Giants x3
Royals x2
Dodgers x2
Red Sox x2
Cardinals x2
Rangers x2
Astros x1
Phillies x1
Cubs x1
Yankees x1
Indians x1
Mets x1
Tigers x1
26 of 30 teams in baseball have been to the playoffs over the past 10 years as well; everybody other than the Mariners, White Sox, Marlins, Padres.
Comparing that to any of the other 3 major sports in the United States makes it clear there’s a lot of competitive balance in MLB.
shoewizard
Thanks Martras, good comment. I suspected it was more along the lines of what you presented.
jleve618
The sheer fact that the royals made 2 world series and won 1 tells me competetive balance has been fine. You don’t see this kind of parity in the orher sports, even the NFL where you would expect it. Though that is a different matter.
Mendoza Line 215
The NFL has the most parity because of the financial structure.Teams can finish below 500 one year and make the playoffs the next year.This rarely happens in baseball.
The problem with the NFL has been that the Patriots have been the greatest team of all time with the best quarterback and best head coach of all time.
Fans of all but the worst run teams have real hope every year of making the playoffs.It is not because of how much money they spend but how effectively they use it.
Baseball has no hope along these lines for all of the teams because of the financial structure.
martras
The NFL has parity? When you have teams finishing 16-0 and teams finishing 0-16, that’s not parity. 12 teams make the playoffs in the NFL Super Bowl teams over the past 10 years basically reads like “Some NFC team vs. the Patriots”
Patriots x5
Seahawks x2
Saints x1
Colts x1
Eagles x1
Packers x1
Giants x1
Panthers x1
Steelers x1
Cardinals x1
Broncos x1
49ers x1
Ravens x1
Falcons x1
Rams x1
Mendoza Line 215
Thank you for making this NFL list.
And proving my point.
You missed my point about the Patriots being the GOAT though.
That is a true anomaly.
Otherwise only the Seahawks have got in the SB more than once in ten years.
These facts need no interpretation.
guille
You actually run into the problem of people thinking of teams as “poor”. Most teams are owned by billionaires.
athleticsnchill
Considering my team is one of those teams people would think of as “poor” I don’t really agree. Would I love for John Fisher to go out and spend his own money on player salaries? Sure. Is it a realistic expectation of anyone, even a billionaire owner, to spend millions on something they may never see a return on investment from? Absolutely not.
The big problem is when an owner injects money straight into payroll, rather than help fabricate a means of self-sustainability, you run into our issue. A previous owner (Walter Haas Jr.) did invest straight into payroll out of his own pocket, and it didn’t end up being sustainable, forcing him to nearly file for bankruptcy and sell the team in the same state it was in when he bought it from Charlie Finley.
So far I’m pretty happy with the investments our owner has made outside of player salaries, because they’re things that help us make more money every year, not just for a year.
stymeedone
You also run into the problem of people thinking of teams as “not a business” and “not having a budget for personnel”. Most teams do not have unlimited income.
Rich
Good points on poor/business. There is a cash flow consideration as well A team may be able to pay player x $25M/year but they may not have $15-20M cash available for a signing bonus.
stansfield123
As a Yankee fan, I’m loving this proposal. We’re gonna win every year. Yay.
However, realistically, that can’t happen. If almost everyone’s getting paid big bucks, a $120M payroll team can’t compete with a $240M payroll team. Especially since $15M or that payroll is for health insurance, so it’s really $105M vs. $225M. And if there’s no real competition, then the whole sports suffers, including the Yankees. They’ll still win everything, but they’ll make a lot less money doing it.
citizen
so who won the 2003 world series?
athleticsnchill
Not sure how that’s relevant. The Yankees had won the world series 4 of the previous 6 years.
PopeMarley
4 out of the previous 7
citizen
It’s totally relevant since the marlins had draft talent, a one year agreement with pudge Rodriguez and a few add on players. Payroll was something like 50 mil, while the Yankees payroll was at 200 mil, with overpriced players and declining free agents. In other words, a 200 million team with no payroll limit lost to an upstart team.
DarkSide830
players should be paid a base salery and additional cash based on quality of play. for example, if bellinger were to be baseball’s best player this year, and its worse next year, he’ll make the most of any pre-FA player next year and the least in the year after. no reason saleries should increase by year. they should be exclusively based on your previous season’s performance. (kinda like a bonus on top of a flat salery)
Mendoza Line 215
Darkside-There would have to be some permutations on this concept,but it makes a lot of sense.
The best players every year would make the most money.
It actually would be the fairest way if the details could be worked out.
But it won’t happen.
its_happening
High offensive explosion, declining ratings. Chicks don’t dig the longball afterall. Time to visit the mound to see how to speed up the game and decrease injuries to pitchers. Elevate the seams on the baseball, elevate the mound, elevate the strike zone. do something. Aces still win in the ratings and at the box office. Always has, always will.
DarkSide830
pitch clocks speed up the game – and probably cause more pitcher injuries.
Joe Kerr
I dunno, Mark Buehrle always pitched fast and was never injured.
DarkSide830
he also struck out a lot less guys though.
User 4245925809
I agree. Pitching fast was no correlation to getting hurt. Some wives tale being instilled by the mlbpa against any aspect of speeding pitchers up and those in favor of watching clay bucholz take 45 seconds between pitches every time.
Jim Kaat won nearly 300 games getting the ball back, then throwing it right away and was nearly never hurt pitching a quarter of a century. Wade Miley is a classic current day example currently of get the ball and pitch it. Those kinds are what fans like to see, not foot draggers on the mound sweating hand grenades.
jdgoat
I think a big part of the ratings decline could be that there is and was only like 10 teams at most who realistically have a chance at the WS. If teams aren’t going to invest in themselves, fans definitely will not.
athleticsnchill
I wish it was as simple as just investing in themselves, but it isn’t. Each case is unique, and there isn’t a quick fix for every problem.
DarkSide830
i dont know. i wouldnt say the NFL and NBA are a whole lot different. sure there are enough teams rebuilding, but teams don’t tank in the MLB, and really don’t try to lose. some teams dont try, but then again, there are some that simply are unable to. (miami and Baltimore, for example had no chance) also helps to have pop-up contenders like Texas, (and earlier on Seattle and Detroit) and teams like NYM and CIN at least trying to see of they can give it a shot in the short term. competition is an overblown issue, but there’s always the possibility of a salary floor or altered postseason qualification rules to allay some fears.
its_happening
It’s typically about 10 teams give or take per season.
Hitting isn’t doing the job yet baseball caters to hitting. It’s not working. All it’s doing is creating more jobs as pitchers go down to injury.
Strengthen the players controlling the baseball the most (pitchers) and you will see a more competitive balance.
spudchukar
A big part of the declining attendance is due to crappy play and poor management, not the increase in offense. I still cannot get my head around the attendance figures from Florida. Sure the Trop sucks and Miami is in a disasterous rebuild, but these excuses still don’t justify all the empty seats. These cities draw for other sports. And I am not buying the “snowbird” rational either. These are huge metropoli. Moreover, this state produces an enormous number of players. So there has to be an active developmental program which lends itself to the interest in the game at the children level. And it isn’t just Florida. Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Detroit all are lagging and they support other sports well. Sure some of this is due to poor play, but these teams are competing, well maybe not Baltimore. Still, if St. Louis can rank #2 in attendance other teams can do better. Mostly the good teams are drawing well especially in the West. But many of the cities that are dragging down the attendance figures need to improve, the excuses don’t fly.
brodie-bruce
i think a lot to do with attendance in stl is mostly the fans expect a good product on the field and ownership knows if they field or make a real effort to field a champion caliber team the fans show up. i fully believe in a lot of the other cities fans are just tried of hearing the b.s. and this new trend of sucking to be good isn’t helping. yes tanking worked for hou and chc but let’s remember until recently they didn’t have a lot of success and they still had fans that showed up so it was easy to sell a rebuild. teams like det or bal for example put themselves into there rebuilds by giving out dumb contracts and now want to hop on the rebuild bandwagon. now i can’t speak for all fans but if the cards said hey we’re going to do a 3~5 year rebuild i’m not going to be all that invested. pay high ticket prices to see a aa or aaa team at best i’m sorry i’m a working man and i don’t have extra time or money to waste seeing my team not even try i’m sure it’s even worse in other markets. i feel would help bring fans back to the parks is if your rebuilding lower ticket and conssesion prices maybe some extra promos stuff to do at the park. i’m also open to any thoughts that might help the game long term.
its_happening
The crappy play can be contributed to the offensive catering. Sorry, the homerun explosion is part of the problem and has lead to a lack of discipline.
As for the development, you have elite programs across North America basically working on “stuff” but not necessarily teaching the game and teaching them life lessons. Two or three hour practices of feeding the pitching machine, hitting off tees, hitting grounders and fly balls, pitching bullpen, all that is terrific. The reps are not the problem; the teaching of fundamentals and situation baseball isn’t (for some programs). You see a lot of that in Canada. Parents also have a bigger say thanks to the hefty donations to keep the programs afloat.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Players in the NFL, NBA and NHL (with their salary caps and floors) all get between 47-50% of their sport’s revenues. MLB players are down to 39% of baseball’s revenues.
In the hopes of getting more, they ended up getting less.
The NHL’s system would work very well for baseball.
jdgoat
Agreed the NHL seems to have the best structure. Especially when you factor in competitive balance and one universal draft.
PopeMarley
Throw out the guaranteed contracts while they’re at it. Contracts should have more ways to void them for such things as domestic violence convictions, and the good old PED’s.
stymeedone
@joshbelltolls
what source provides this 39% to players figure?
DarkSide830
funny, youd think the players would like pace of play changes if they really had an effect on league and therefore their earnings. lets face it; the game of baseball can not be face paced. its a different animal then the other three sports, and manfred has to realize that. the league will continue to profit and richly, i can assure you that.
southpaw2153
To me, the players have no grievance unless they’re willing to allow teams to buyout unproductive players. Many teams have dead weight on their payroll, this is another reason they don’t spend on other players.
If, for example, the Yankees could buy out Ellsbury for 25 or 50% of his remaining contract, they’d be able to spend approximately $30 million on players actually able to get on the field.
Players want guaranteed $ yet also shrug their shoulders when players such as Ellsbury, A-Rod, etc become a financial albatross on a given team. Can’t have it both ways. This is why teams are shying away from giving out long-term deals to any player over 28 -29.
stansfield123
To me, the players have no grievance
———–
They aren’t bringing their grievance to you. They’re bringing it to the negotiating table.
MLB players are free people in a free country. They have the right to negotiate the conditions of their employment, and strike if no agreement is reached. That’s not subject to anyone’s opinion, it’s a legal right.
It’s not a popularity contest, either. It makes no difference whether their demands are popular or unpopular with fans. The negotiations are between the owners and the players, nothing to do with fans. Our job is to watch the games. We don’t get to have a say in who gets paid what.
southpaw2153
Wow, thanks for stating the obvious, Poindexter.
mike156
Disagree, but maybe that’s because I’m sympathetic to players. A player who signs contract is bound to his team–and that includes all contracts, the “overpaid” guys and the ones who were signed to cheap early career extensions. Can’t be a one-way gate, where only one side gets to choose.
mike156
Cheap advice to MLBPA (which I know will not be welcome)
1. Forget about the QO…it’s catnip to distract from bigger issues.
2. Raise MLB minimums faster.
3. Find a reasonable structure to deal with service time manipulation–maybe that’s a hard maximum age at which players become Arb-eligible and/or FA eligible
4. Do something for Minor Leaguers. They are exploited,
5. Competitiveness is a serious challenge—be creative in addressing the incentives for tanking.
stansfield123
4. Do something for Minor Leaguers. They are exploited
—————
Exploited? That implies that the owners are making money off of them. When, in fact, baseball organizations are losing money on minor league teams.
Which means that, if someone made it even more expensive to operate these teams, the owners would simply shut a big chunk of them down…and then a lot of these players hanging around in the minors with no hope of ever making it would have to get real jobs.
I mean sure, that wouldn’t be a bad thing for the US economy (a bunch of people who are playing a game in empty minor league parks would instead spend their 20s learning a skill, or at least working a low skill job), but it would be a horrible thing for players from Latin America, who are ecstatic to come to the US and play for the “exploitative” wages they get paid in the minors.
mike156
If you have been a little more polite, it might be worth engaging on this subject, but since your mind seems a tad closed, and perhaps you have some personal ax to grind, maybe not.
Mendoza Line 215
When you say exploited,you mean that they are making way much less than the major leaguers.But they are probably not making any less than a typical young American,especially those who have high college debts to pay.
It is especially true for those who received signing bonuses.
Stansfield was just making a point that disagreed with your point.
These minor leaguers all have the hope that they will make more than half a million dollars a year while they are in their early to mid twenties.Most will not.But it does not seem like they are being exploited to me.
Tko11
Rusney Castillo ballin in Triple A making $16mill lol but yeah most are making like $24,000 per year which is ridiculous.
athleticsnchill
$24,000 for 6 months, forcing them to go out and get part time jobs during the offseason. Not really healthy for most professionals.
Mendoza Line 215
They are taking the chance to make multi millions later in life,in their mid 20’s.
So they can retire at 35.
They are not being forced into anything.They are taking calculated risks.
This amount is along the lines that many people make at that age.And they have accumulated no debt for schooling,nor have had to take the time out of earning money.
I doubt that many are crying the blues and saying that they are being exploited.They are doing something that they love and have been blessed with the physical ability to do it.
thinkblech
As a fellow benevolent billionaire, I too, am rooting for the billionaires. From my yacht. My backup yacht, you see, as the primary’s forward commode is out of commiasion. Bad caviar, you see. Dreadful business.
stansfield123
I wish they would just tie free agency to age, instead of this ridiculous service time/options scheme. Age 27 for high school draftees, age 29 for college draftees seems fair. Arbitration starts at 24/25, so 3 years for high school draftees, four years for college draftees.
Teams would still get 6 or 7 years out of their best players, because there would be no incentive to delay calling them up. Free agency is moved up for most players (not all, Machado for instance would’ve been delayed another year, but this small minority is not enough to prevent an agreement).
It would reduce the average age, which should make the sport more popular and benefit everybody involved.
southpaw2153
Oh, so you can have an opinion but no one else can? Derp. Go back to your fantasy draft, thank mommy for the PB&J sandwich and stfu.
Michael_K_Woods
This take fails to understand important instances. For example, what incentive would the Dodgers have had to sign Max Muncy to a minors deal and rework his swing if he would have been a FA based on age the next year? None! An age based system would just lead to a minor leagues where everyone is >2 years under that age. Respectfully, you also appear to have no understanding of the purpose of “options.” It is like 2-way contracts in basketball or the practice squad in Football. No sport is the depth of a team more necessary than in baseballs 162.
batty
There is so much to be re-negotiated that starting now, at the table, may be too late. Of course the owners don’t want to “give” anything away. Ownership, no matter the business, rarely does. But i think they’ll have to actually concede some things. The MLBPA can’t force teams to sign players and definitely not marginal veterans who are easily, and more cheaply, replaced. So i believe, as many others do, that the big fight is going to be over length of team control. A side battle will be the league minimum once a player is called up. I expect that could very well almost double with the new CBA.
spudchukar
First on the agenda should be paying the Minor League players a living wage. It is a disgrace.
stansfield123
Who should be paying this living wage?
Cat Mando
stansfield123……………MLB teams already pay minor league salaries so………………..
stansfield123
So what? They’re spending a certain amount on maintaining a vast minor league system across the country, because it makes economic sense to do so.
Does that mean they would also spend 5 times more? Or does the law of supply and demand come into play? Do you believe in this basic law of economics? Do you agree that if the cost of goods or services goes up, demand for them goes down?
If the cost of minor league teams went up by let’s say 500%, wouldn’t demand for them go down significantly? And if that happened, wouldn’t a big portion of minor league teams simply be closed down, instead of MLB teams merrily going along with this childish scheme where they magically provide a living wage to thousands of people who contribute relatively little to their business?
And that’s clearly true: most minor leaguers are the equivalent of seat warmers at an award show: there to fill uniforms, so that the few actual prospects each organization has have teams at various skill levels, to play against. But these teams aren’t indispensable, it’s just how things have always worked. There are other ways to prepare prospects for the majors, that involve a lot fewer minor league teams.
spudchukar
Who? The frickin’ teams. Some players at lower levels are making $800.00 a month. How is that possible in a multi-million dollar industry? It should be at least $2000.00. Most players do not make it to the Promise Land. Yet, they are still an integral part of the game. These guys are special athletes. They should be paid accordingly.
Cat Mando
spudchukar…….The MLBPA does not represent the minor league players so how exactly do the negotiate for them.
spudchukar
I get that. Then have no representation. But that is still a sorry excuse although accurate. Since, almost all players were Minor Leaguers once, it is incumbent on them to make the demand. One issue is that most players that make it to the Bigs get draft money. This affects Hispanic players disapportionately. Many sign very young. Some with bonuses, granted, but many do not. Has it gotten better? Yes. But that still is no excuse. And while the player’s union must initiate the pressure, on an issue that does not benefit them directly, the Owners must listen. This is not a lot of money. More attention needs to be drawn to this travesty. I am trying.
Michael_K_Woods
Typical knee jerk response that fails to account for any variables in analysis. Having an emotion is more important than fact based analysis.
How much does a minor league player at 19-22 make compared to your average American the same age? Does a minor leaguers worker development have more $$ value than the average same aged American?
If you can’t find a way to think of these variables before commenting you should probably seek ways to become a better Stage 2 thinker.
del taki
1 million minimum salary for all players (basically creates a salary floor) and raises everyone’s salary, arbitration eligible after one full year of service time, but the next years arb salary is tied ONLY to prior years performance not years or prior year salary, get rid of the QO system (provide teams that lose FA a draft pick, but don’t penalize teams who sign the player), adopt the DH in the NL (would allow NL teams to spend on older players without a position and should lead to bigger pool of teams who can sign older players with smaller risk)
stansfield123
Those are reasonable ideas, but they don’t address one important problem: there is an incentive to delay calling up young players. And teams are doing it. Prospects who have the ability to contribute in the majors are being kept in the minors, sometimes for years, simply because the team wants to delay their free agency.
That incentive needs to be eliminated. Which means the distinction between major and minor league service time needs to be eliminated. Players should be getting closer to free agency EVERY DAY they are employed by a club. No matter what level they’re being used at.
bobtillman
The entire minor league system is an useless relic from days when 18 year old kids, not bright enough to go to college, were pulled off of farms or city streets and had to be taught how to play baseball.
The world has changed; breaking news. College programs are, in some instances, more sophisticated than MLB ones. Kids get to attend academies, nation-wide tournaments, exposing themselves to geometrically better coaching than they ever got, even 10-20 years ago. Advanced technology has enabled scouts to identify real prospects, quicker and with real efficacy.
Think about it. A 21 year old man can learn the intricacies of a Bill Belicheck defense in 2 months, but can’t learn how to hit a cutoff man? In 4 years?
The minors themselves can be cut by about 75%, with no discernable difference in performance.
It’s not going to change, ONLY because minor league teams have become a license to print money, versus even 15 years ago, when the average owner had the whole family “working” the ballpark, and were happy just not to lose any money, never mind making any.
So, bottom line, if you’re going to have a system that by its nature suppresses earnings, the least you can do is pay a reasonably decent wage. Electrician apprentices at least make enough to feed their families as they move up; baseball players deserve nothing less.
emac22
What?
Minor league baseball is a for profit business?
Get a rope!
athleticsnchill
Who gets to objectively choose when a player is ready to be called up? Flooding the majors with underdeveloped players is terrible for the competitiveness of the game, especially in the long run.
bobtillman
All a kid from a good college program gets by spending years in the minors is a bushfull of useless advice from failed (mostly minor league failures, BTW) coaches/managers , lousy food/living conditions, and the ability to outperform players that aren’t as good as they are anyway.
SOME (not all) actually have their skills erode by going through this nonsensical approach.
I have no idea why everybody accepts this notion that a college QB can translate his skills to the NFL quicker than a second baseman can.
It’s bizzare on its face.
athleticsnchill
I’m sure there are a lot of cases of players being ready for the big time and teams wanting to hold off, I just don’t see it because I don’t follow every minor league team. Like, I don’t see the A’s doing that very often. They follow a pretty strict set of guidelines they themselves have followed for decades, but I don’t see them holding players back on purpose just to manipulate service time. Chapman and Olson weren’t ready, but Olson was given a shot mostly out of necessity due to injury and while the Super 2 deadline had passed when we called Chapman up it was about enough time to determine Trevor Plouffe was just not going to be good.
Puk and Luzardo would have both made the team out of camp if they had been healthy in 18 and 19.
Michael_K_Woods
Sir, baseball is a very cerebral sport that is also mostly physical. The mechanics of a pitcher being able to repeat his delivery. The ability of a batter to recognize pitches. All these things take a lot of time to develop. A service time methodology allows for players only to play when they are ready to. In other sports players play even if they are below replacement level at the start.
bobtillman
“play when they are ready to”……in what universe is that anything but a misleading statement?
STLRedbyrds
Eliminate the guaranteed contract, players need to produce to get paid, Players are arb eligible after first year in bigs, Go through 2 arb cycles then unrestricted, . After 3 minor league seasons or XX number of games, player become unrestricted free agent as well. Change ML 40 man roster to 45. Eliminate the QO. Set low salary cap for teams to spend.
Lose 100+ games 2 yrs in a row you forfeit 1st round draft pick., and for each consecutive year you lose 100+, lose the pick.
stansfield123
Eliminate the guaranteed contract….player become unrestricted free agent
———–
Lol. Free to do what? NOT sign a free agent contract, because it’s been eliminated?
spudchukar
You must be kidding. Should this also apply to management? No pay to GMs if a team struggles? Fans refusing to pay for tickets if the team sucks? You losing your job if profits aren’t enough, even though you are trying to do your best, and aren’t the sole reason for a company’s failure. And think of the added pressure on players. Fans don’t come to games to watch owners own, they come to watch players play. They deserve the financial security they have earned.
DarkSide830
yeah, because the players want more uncertainty in their contracts, which is exactly why they sign early-career extentions.
reflect
Hopefully the PA actually listens to economic and financial experts this time. Last time they ignored all warnings/advice and and then proceeded to whine about the very predictable financial and economic consequences of the thing they signed.
goob
@ Jeff Todd
A good concise summation of the state-of-play – as it stands today.
Thanks Jeff.
citizen
i dont think mlb will strike since the expos dont exist.
reflect
Doesn’t that increase the chances of a strike? Now we have fewer Canadians around to create harmony with apologies, hugs, and weird circular bacon.
spudchukar
I have said this before and here it comes again, fans do not come to games to watch owners own, they come to watch players play. Share the wealth for God’s sake.
spudchukar
One more fact to ponder, in the entire history of Baseball, no team has ever gone bankrupt. None, nada, nilch. What industry could make that claim? Obviously, there is enough money to go around.
athleticsnchill
A’s almost did in 1994. The Expos also come to mind.
spudchukar
Close maybe, but never claimed bankruptcy.
Munsonmanor4
Oh, where to begin. There are so many things to discuss about what ails baseball. Qualifying offer. Instead of TAKING a draft pick from the team signing the free agent, how about just GIVING an extra draft pick at the end of the 1st – 3rd round of the draft to the team losing the free agent? Better the free agent, higher the draft pick. Should help avoid Kimbrell & Keuchel situations. Set up a salary cap floor for spending by teams. Should help to curtail some tanking. I get it with teams like the Orioles. They’re going to win approx. 60 games at best this year. Could they have signed Kimbrell and/or Keuchel to be better….yes. To what end though? How many more wins would the Orioles get? Maybe 5-7 best case scenario and that’s not going to get them in the playoffs much less out of last place in the AL East. Game play/length of games have changed. Pitch clocks are not going to reduce pace of games because of all the commercial breaks for TV in between innings. We have shifts that baseball players who could actually play the game could go the other way and make them stop. But they won’t. The counter is “launch angles”. By God, if we cannot hit through the shift, we’ll go over it! Most AB’s now are either HR’s, walks, or strikeouts (basically beer league softball – see Adam Dunn). Teams stringing together hits for a rally are going the way of the Dodo bird. Pitch counts/speed gun pitchers. Pitchers can barely go 5 innings without their arm falling off, along with an ever repeating cycle of relief pitchers throwing 95 MPH or more, can’t throw strikes, and needing more TJ surgery’s to fix them, rinse and repeat. Pitchers need to be able to actually pitch and not just throw hard. There should be some way to get the players paid sooner when they’re successful while keeping low revenue ball clubs able to keep a player around long enough to field a competitive product. Something also needs to be done to discontinue the team practice of keeping a player in the minors longer to keep them bound to the team longer. Just something else that pisses the players off. These are just a few and there’s probably a lot more I’m missing. These should be a good start though.
citizen
mlb used to have the compensation pick but changed it to draft pick compensation. Players and MLB agreed to the service time, its agents like scott “im gong to ruin baseball” borass who dont like it and want big money for their clients sooner. I dont know, holding off free agency after several years keeps the players hungry and performing.
emac22
I’d love to hear you after your boss talked about motivating you thatt way. LOL
nicketz
The most pressing issue to me is getting a greater percentage of revenue to the players. The question is: Will the union do the right thing and force the issue to get more money to younger players (higher minimums/earlier arb or FA etc) or will they take the path most unions seem to and eat the young to try and enrich the older members?
I hope for the former, but i sadly expect the latter 🙁
athleticsnchill
Reflecting on what happened last CBA, and how massive of a failure that was from MLBPA’s standpoint…
Nah, they’ll probably just do the same nonsense, try and get players in the league now paid more and screw the youngsters that actually carry teams out of their fair cut of the pie.
spudchukar
The percentage of revenue sharing IS the issue. And it is over a crazy degree. It is only a couple of percentages. So now the owners are manipulating the measurements, and the player’s know this. There is a scene from a Baseball movie that I cannot remember the title of. The star of the movie simply says,”owners,” and shakes his head. Maybe somebody can help me remember. But the scene says it all.
jorge78
Please put the DH in both leagues! Stop the madness!
DarkSide830
again, its not madness, its interesting. two slightly different products if you like. leave the NL well enough alone and become an AL fan if you dont like the game having more strategy and intrigue.
martras
MLB stressing player comp has remained consistent with league revenues isn’t a strong negotiating position… it’s “low-balling” or an insult to the MLBPA. It’s obvious league revenues have increased and the numbers make it clear player salaries have been decreasing.
I don’t have a problem with the QO. I think it’s working well right now. Players are sometimes taking the offer and teams have gotten a lot more selective as to when they make the offer as a result.
The team control is too long.
1. Super 2 should be eliminated with all players essentially getting Super 2 status by default.
2. One year of arbitration should be going away.’
3. A luxury tax should apply in a reverse order for the payrolls under 50% of the Competitive Balance (luxury) Tax. i.e. $100M payroll is $3M under, earning it a 20% tax on the $3M, etc.
4. Teams which exceed the tax thresholds by $20M or more either way should move to the back of the 1st round draft in order of their violation amount.
No hard caps. No hard floors. This will eliminate tanking.
The Tampa Bay Rays are at $68M total including IL, etc. and have been below the luxury tax minimum for 3+ years, but are not more than $40M under so they would have a 50% + 12.5% surcharge or an effective tax rate of 62.5% on the (103 – 68) = 35M underage. Basically, the Rays would need to cough up $22M in competitive balance taxes and since they are the worst offender of the luxury tax violation, they would move to the last position in the first round.
Done.
athleticsnchill
Results also need to mean something, because the Rays were a dark horse wild card last year and are a potential wild card this year. the A’s also only spent $68M last year and would have probably made it to the division series any other year at 97 wins.
It’s hard to quantify spending still, because youth (league minimum contracts) can have such a huge impact on a team.
Koamalu
The Rays spent $ 95,568,294 last season. legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/al…
martras
Not what I was seeing, my quick web search link below. I’m not actually looking to single a team out as it’s just an example. Luxury tax isn’t calculated on opening day payrolls. A lot of Tampa Bay’s 2018’s opening day payroll you cited was traded off the roster.
spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/2018/
martras
Results do mean something… if you’re not breaking the rules.
rottenboyfriend
The players have caused the problems with free agency because nine out of ten contracts turn out poorly for the teams! They sign the long term guaranteed deal and become instant multi-millionaires no matter what their performance is from that day forward. If you want ownership to continue to give players thirty and older big bucks their needs to be out clauses for the teams just like their are for players in many of these deals.
The game was better when the players had to perform to earn next years contract? Their are less than a handful of contracts where the teams end up getting their moneys worth period. When you are burned over and over eventually you end up deciding to develop your own cost controlled talent! Even the Yankees have figured it out and no longer are big free agent buyers
No other sport signs players to 300 million dollar 10 year deals and look at Machado and Harper’s performance to date! It’s a complete ripoff for ownership and the fans!
Maybe the answer is up the minimum salary dramatically and have the players become free agents after 5 years instead of 6! The performance is better in the early years so pay accordingly! Put in thresholds for all the hitting and pitching statistics and the pay is geared around what their performance is year to year until free agency. A young player can then make five, ten, or twenty million based on his performance so everybody is treated fairly from day one! Under the current system the teams that sign the free agents end up paying for the players performance from his early years in the big leagues!
Koamalu
@rottenboy Over 50% of large, multi year free agent contracts have gone in the teams favor. There have been several studies on that subject including one this year on The Athletic. Your basic premise is wrong.
rottenboyfriend
Give me examples of contracts where the player over performed the free agent contract he signed? I can give you hundreds of them where the player bombed! Most players over thirty regress big time yet they continue to be paid crazy money! For every contract you can provide where the player lived up to expectations I will give you 10 where they didn’t!! Why not pay them what they are worth based on performance from day one and after 5 years they can play for whoever they want to! If the club is small market and can’t afford that amount they can always trade them. They are way under paid the first 2 or 3 years and way over paid when they sign as free agents! The current system is a joke!
martras
Prove your ridiculous made up statistic first. People have done the analysis on these contracts before.
Mendoza Line 215
The term competitive balance is an absolute joke in baseball.
When teams spend four times as much on players as other teams there is no balance.
Small market teams have won the WS once since 1991.
It is strongly geared to the large market teams and until something is drastically done,which MLB won’t do,it will not change.Everyone, including the players,are feeding from the same trough.It will always be the same.
martras
Again, almost every team in baseball has made the playoffs in the past 10 years and even the best teams rarely make the World Series. There are various ways to build and win in baseball. Small market teams operate differently than mid market and large market teams and each type has a valid path to field competitive teams.
The Yankees have been to 1 World Series in the past decade and have totally missed the playoffs several times in that span despite spending more than anybody else. The Red Sox have missed the playoffs 5 times and been to the World Series 2x.
Your argument is invalid from my perspective.
Mendoza Line 215
Maybe from your perspective.
Small market teams have won the WS once since 1991.
Just because the wealthiest teams cannot win it every year does not mean that the whole league has competitive balance.
And winning a wild card is not the same as winning a division.It is a one game crapshoot with the best pitcher almost always winning the game.
That is my perspective.
martras
Oh, and side note:
2015 Royals (smallest market) won while having gone to the WS 2x in the past 5 years.
Mendoza Line 215
Oh,and in another side note they can barely win a game now,and they are the only small market team to win the WS since 1991.
These are the facts.
youngTank15
Arizona won and the cardinals have won.
Koamalu
Halem is flat out lying. During this CBA the league’s revenue has increased 20% while player payrolls have fallen each year.
rottenboyfriend
Give me examples of contracts where the player over performed the free agent contract he signed? I can give you hundreds of them where the player bombed! Most players over thirty regress big time yet they continue to be paid crazy money! For every contract you can provide where the player lived up to expectations I will give you 10 where they didn’t!! Why not pay them what they are worth based on performance from day one and after a certain amount of time they can play for whoever they want to! If the club is small market and they can’t afford that amount they can always trade them. They are way under paid the first 2 or 3 years and way over paid as free agents!
rottenboyfriend
Give me examples of contracts where the player over performed the free agent contract he signed? I can give you hundreds of them where the player bombed! Most players over thirty regress big time yet they continue to be paid crazy money! Why not pay them what they are worth based on performance from day one and after a certain amount of time they can play for whoever they want to! If the club is small market and they can’t afford that amount they can always trade them. They are way under paid the first 2 or 3 years and way over paid as free agents!
martras
Brilliant! That’s the perfect way to make sure no small market team ever has a chance. If their players are good, they can’t afford them. If their players are bad, they’re losing.
youngTank15
They can afford them, owners just don’t want to pay and are cheap.