The Blue Jays have acquired right-hander Nick Kingham from the Pirates for cash considerations, as announced by both teams. Ryan Tepera has been shifted to the 60-day injured list to create room on Toronto’s roster.
Kingham was designated for assignment this week, effectively ending almost a full decade in Pittsburgh’s organization for the righty. Kingham was a fourth-round pick in the 2010 draft and has long been considered one of the more promising arms both in the Bucs’ farm system and in baseball as a whole, appearing on top-100 prospect lists prior to both the 2014 and 2015 seasons. Tommy John surgery in 2015 delayed his progress, though he still amassed a 3.46 ERA, 3.17 K/BB rate, and 7.7 K/9 over 766 1/3 career innings in the minors, starting 142 of his 147 games.
As a big-leaguer, Kingham flirted with history when he carried a perfect game into the seventh inning during his MLB debut back on April 29, 2018. Overall, however, Kingham has struggled to find consistency in the Show, posting a 6.67 ERA that has been boosted by 25 homers allowed over 110 2/3 innings, though he has a higher strikeout rate (8.2 K/9) in the majors than in the minors, albeit over a much smaller sample size.
Though the Pirates are far from deep in starting pitching options, it seems like they were simply ready to move on from the 27-year-old Kingham, who now gets a chance on a Blue Jays team that is in even more desperate need of rotation help. The Jays rank at or near the bottom of the league in most starting pitching categories, and will need even more starters on hand to fill the void if/when Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez are both moved before the July 31st trade deadline. Kingham could get a shot in the rotation immediately (which could mean the end of struggling veteran Edwin Jackson’s time in Toronto) or he could throw out of the bullpen as a long man until a trade or until the Jays decide a change needs to be made.
This is the absolute peak of desperation.
Almost all reclamation project type acquisitions are trashed on here but quite a few of them work out. NK has been pretty good in the minors and showed flashes in the majors last year.
The Blue Jays are giving up nothing. Why not make a move like this?
You are both right. Desperate long shot, but why not?
Yeah! I bet this is a move that signals some trades are imminent.
Can it get any worse?
Yah it can Charles. Watching Edwin Jackson, Clayton Richard, and Aaron Sanchez, pitch is much worse.
If you throw enough things at the wall, somethings gotta stick!
Yeah but what usually sticks to the wall attracts flies and smells really bad. I know when you are in a rebuild you are going to lose games. But this is getting painful to watch. It’s like watching a T-ball game with little kids.
The team that has the second lowest payroll in mlb trades a guy for cash
Maybe that was the best offer? A couple more days and he walks for nothing.
People on here don’t understand leverage whatsever.
They do understand that Pirates ownership is cheap as hell.
@batty
I don’t believe Kingham can declare free agency, as he doesn’t have the service time and had not been DFA’d on a previous occasion. He could have been outrighted to AAA.
Kingham was DFA’d 6 days ago.
You’d rather give up prospects?
Haha for cash, of course. Pirates might have the worse evaluators in all of baseball.
Ha ha ha! No might about it!
What should they have gotten for a guy with a 12 ERA?
Kingham was a very highly rated prospect and was living up to the hype just fine until he had Tommy John surgery, and he really hasn’t been right since then. Not everyone makes it back quickly, or at all, from TJ.
Nope, that’s Shapkins
Warm body
Hope Nick can figure it out Was a solid prospect until his TJ surgery. Was talked about in the same breath as Cole and Taillon in the same breath back then. Shame it all fell apart on him.
Yep. 5 years ago, we were supposed to have the best rotation in baseball with Cole, Taillon, Glasnow, Kingham, and Keller.
Unbelievable how that turned out. Someone else said it. Absolutely the worst evaluators of players in MLB. That, combined with ownership, who wants to ‘try to win’ with committing as less as money as possible, are a joke.
Good luck Nick!
More dumpster diving to fill innings from Stkins and Co.
The Jays need arms to lose more games.
It’s a full-on tank now.
2-3 years too late in my book, but the Jays got here eventually.
High draft selections coming in the next few years becuase of this forced tank.
Change the record.
jimmer who cares. its cash. someone has to pitch? what’s the plan bring up guys just for the sake of saying you did it. Lind of like Cavan, Vlad, Etc.
I get your hate on for this front office but I guess what I would like to know is what your #scouteyes think should be done (especially in season).
This is basically the pitcher equivalent of Dwight Smith Jr, whom many Jays fans can’t seem to get over. Now they’re on the receiving end of a trade like this and they’re up in arms? Something doesn’t add up.
Damned if you make a move, damned if you don’t. I see a lot of those same criticisms of the Pirates. I legitimately sometimes don’t understand what exactly some fans want them to do.
Agreed. Rogers has cash aplenty. Buy anything that’s for sale on the cheap. You never know when one might break out or you find a diamond in the rough.
Ya I notice that as well now that I think of it connfyoozed. Something in the water in these cities
Good question Price. This is what I would do the balance of this year.
Let’s remember I like the Cashman/Dombroski ways of doing things which is keep the young core and a few minor league stars and trade the rest and bump the budget to $200M.
Step One: identify the future young core: Tellez, Borucki, Gurriel jr, Sean Reid Foley, Mayza, Vlad Jr, Biggio, Drury, Urena, Jansen[for now], Nate Pearson, Thornton, Alford [Ilike him].
Trade the rest either one up or in packages for as good arms as can be had. [That means everyone is available except the above.]
Admit to the fans it is a full rebuild and stop wasting all our time, the media’s time, employee’s time and fringe players time by this constant dumpster diving and competative longterm spin nonsense.
Fill in any holes balance of year with a combinations of more young talent called up and older players that could previously play. [by buying them,or trading for them], no waivers claims or dumpster diving.
As soon as the season ends send down Luciano.
Move VladJr permanently to first base. Tellez to back up first and DH.
Now it is time to spend, spend, spend. I have always liked the Jays motto of nothing longer than 5 year contracts. Sign to fill all the holes[CF], postionally or in the rotation. High character guys only. Buy some stars if needed and appropriate like. Donaldson, Cole, Bumgarner, Grandal etc..
If the budget or FA marketplace can get a need filled then we look to the farm and trade, trade, trade to fill holes.
At least this team would have a shot at the playoffs.
This would be year one’s moves.
That is pretty much what the FO is already doing. (During rebuilds, you HAVE to dumpster dive — what quality FA wants to sign up for the front end of a rebuild?).
But the Jays won’t go through years of tanking. There are too many core players at MLB already or nearby. It’s just a matter of seeing who in the legion of quality infielders can play corner outfield (e.g. Gurriel looks like a fit in LF, making failed starters like Teoscar and maybe McKinney part of a strong bench)..
But we cannot say for certain if ownership will go to $200M once we know which young players will stick at the MLB level. But they should not hesitate when it becomes apparent there is a long-term need (I would say in CF and the rotation). The young studs will be cheap for several years; there should be a mountain of cash to fill the holes with quality FA signings.
We can’t skimp in the Vladdy Era of Total Goodness and waste this golden opportunity.
Bichette?
Don’t Like Bichette as a core player. I think major league pitching will get the best of him. He’ll be a below average bat and an average fielder, probably 2nd base,
So that’s all they have to do? Sign Bumgarner, Cole, Grandal, etc. to win? They should sign Rendon while they’re at it and trade for Acuna, Springer and Snell.
Exactly. A lot of posts on here don’t take into consideration that acquiring a player is often a two-way street. Unless they’re a young player and completely under team control the player gets a say in where they land. Canada is already a less interesting prospect for most US players due to the odd taxation laws and geography.
Rogers has a ton of cash, but they’re also ridiculously frugal. They wouldn’t start the clock ticking on Vladdy without being prepared to go all in very soon. My guess is the start of 2020 will be a completely different team altogether and I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up keeping Stroman and part ways with everything else.
Probably why he’s still down in the minors though. Apart from the injury that is.
It’s June who do you think the jays would bring in. You probably wanted Kimbrel and Keuchel signed right? Smh.
This is exactly the kinda guy the jays should be giving chances to. Obviously the guy has shown something in the past
yeah, I wanted them signed and then traded for prospects at the deadline. Cash is one thing this team has… overpay them and ship them out to contenders.
What team would give up prospects for Kimbrel or Keuchel when they could’ve just signed them?
Absolutely! Buy everything that has some residual value. Fix them up and trade them out.
A team with a sudden injury at the pitcher position. It usually doesn’t happen as all starting pitchers break 200 innings and nobody gets hurt….If Kimbrel and Kuechel signed with a mediocre team and was hot out the gate, teams would bring interest.
Kingham will save the arm of some utility player who otherwise might have to pitch.
If Ray Searage couldnt help this guy then nobody can.
Tell that to Glasnow
According to Glasnow himself, the tweak that “fixed” him came with the Pirates, under Searage, a few weeks before his trade.
How is Searage doing with Archer?
Archer is a headcase. I don’t think Searage has his doctorate in Pyschology.
always thought Archer was a bit overhyped.
Searage can’t develop young pitchers to save his life. Cole, Glasnow, Morton, etc. He’s only good at reclaiming washed up veterans from other organizations.
I don’t believe the purpose of the major League pitching coach is to “develop” talent. Cultivate and grow; tweek as necessary to improve, yes. Development typically happens before the majors; obviously there are exceptions.
All these guys can light up the minors but for whatever reason can’t translate it to the big leagues. That’s on Searage and his outdated one size fits all pitching philosophy. He has power pitchers trying to nibble down in the zone instead of fully utilizing their power stuff. Keller seems to be the next in line, ignoring his best pitch, his curveball, just to throw fastballs until they get pounded. Exactly what happened with Cole and Glasnow. It’s infuriating watching them not learn their lesson.
Jackson did good on the opener yesterday in case you didn’t notice.
No Jackson didn’t do good yesterdday. For the first time in ages the bats came to life. Jackson was his usual self giving up base hits a home run and walking a bunch. And all in a few innings. He needs to realize his career has come to an end he’s becoming like Bartolo Colon.
Atkins back at it collecting “depth” who can’t play. That’s his favourite word.. “depth”, but somebody needs to tell him your “depth” means absolutely nothing if those guys are completely worthless.. I’d rather spend, and truly give up something, rather then to constantly go garage sale shopping and hope you piece together an actual big league roster one day. I know this is a small move, but still, these are the only type of moves Atkins is capable of making..
This was everyday life in Cleveland when Shapiro was there. Every player he brought in from outside the organization came outta the bargain bin without exception. And even if the money is there you should never expect a splashy FA signing under Shapiro’s watch. All you’ll get are excuses why they don’t sign prime free agents.
I would blame ownership, not Shapiro. Cleveland hasn’t been in the top 15 in payroll since 2002 — including the four years since Shapiro left. But in that time, the Jays have been in the top 15 for payroll nine times. This year, Cleveland CUT $15M in payroll despite having guys like Kluber, Bauer, Carrasco, Lindor, Santana and Ramirez on the roster. Shapiro-less Cleveland is spending the same as the 2013 Jays.
Opening day 25-man payrolls in the four seasons since Shapiro moved to Toronto (according to Cot’s Contracts).
TOR: $576,747,358
CLE: $474,847,163
it’s the middle of the season!!! they likely gave up little cash. you complain about depth but what seriously was wrong with spending little to bring in a guy who did have some pedigree.
could it fail? of course it could. any signing can. but this really is a no lose trade for the jays.
What’s Stetson Allie up to these days?
Check out at Allie’s numbers at Oklahoma City so far if double-digit ERAs don’t make you squeamish.
Why does the Pirates FO always draft the right guys, but then trade them all? They did well in the McCutchen trade, but that’s because SF is one of the few teams that has a worse FO, but they could have sat on their hands and had a much better team if they kept everyone else.
Their FO runs names over talent, its so weird after all we’ve learnt about how kinda simple a process it is to get to the postseason. It goes: tear down, slash payroll, get internal prospects to bigs, use payroll to take on whatever vets are clear upgrades over current options = contender. They flipped like, all of their top prospects for a veteran who wasn’t all that great to begin with, he’s had 1 good year and 6 lackluster ones.
First. they traded Cole because they screwed themselves with the measly $10,000 pay raise they gave him after he went 19-8 in 2015. Cole was leaving and they knew it, so they traded him to as least get something in return instead of letting him walk. The Archer trade has topped the Aramis Ramirez for Bobby Hill trade as the worst move the Pirates have made.
Second, I think it’s a little amusing the way you make it sound so easy to make the postseason. If it were that easy, more teams would be using your philosophy and making the playoffs.
Finally, “learnt” isn’t a word.
Duplicate entry:
Good question Price. This is what I would do the balance of this year.
Let’s remember I like the Cashman/Dombroski ways of doing things which is keep the young core and a few minor league stars and trade the rest and bump the budget to $200M.
Step One: identify the future young core: Tellez, Borucki, Gurriel jr, Sean Reid Foley, Mayza, Vlad Jr, Biggio, Drury, Urena, Jansen[for now], Nate Pearson, Thornton, Alford [Ilike him].
Trade the rest either one up or in packages for as good arms as can be had. [That means everyone is available except the above.]
Admit to the fans it is a full rebuild and stop wasting all our time, the media’s time, employee’s time and fringe players time by this constant dumpster diving and competative longterm spin nonsense.
Fill in any holes balance of year with a combinations of more young talent called up and older players that could previously play. [by buying them,or trading for them], no waivers claims or dumpster diving.
As soon as the season ends send down Luciano.
Move VladJr permanently to first base. Tellez to back up first and DH.
Now it is time to spend, spend, spend. I have always liked the Jays motto of nothing longer than 5 year contracts. Sign to fill all the holes[CF], postionally or in the rotation. High character guys only. Buy some stars if needed and appropriate like. Donaldson, Cole, Bumgarner, Grandal etc..
If the budget or FA marketplace can get a need filled then we look to the farm and trade, trade, trade to fill holes.
At least this team would have a shot at the playoffs.
This would be year one’s moves.
Donaldson is where you want them to spend the money? I’m sorry have you seen the last few seasons?
The Blue Jays could have solved the problem internally. Instead they grab a piece of crap arm that they might release in 3 weeks (Drake, Oliver and Hauschild, Mike). The guy to call up should have been David Paulino. Sink or swim, call him up and have him start.
Then promote a AA guy to AAA (Patrick Murphy maybe).
Then a High-A to AA (Nick Allgeyer).
Then A to….ah, nevermind….
You might say who cares, while I say this guy is a waste of time. The key is to reward the players performing in the minors with a promotion, BOOST confidence. Management continues to convey the same message to every playing within the Jays organization: we know better, and we know you don’t deserve that next step regardless of your play. We determine that.
Hence, Nick Kingham, who sucks….
@JimReaper
> The guy to call up should have been David Paulino
Maybe you should look up stuff while you switch between accounts.
Paulo just pitched on Tuesday, his first game action since April. Not a good candidate for an MLB start today.
In this non-compete year, I want the Jays to steal players from other orgs, give them a decent tryout, then try to stash them in the minors if it doesn’t work out. There are five Jays pitchers on the 60-day IL — so there is no better time to try to find a diamond in the rough.
Hey son….(Terry).
David Paulino is back, and that’s perfectly fine with me. Bring him up.
Now, since you are stating you advocate failures like Nick Kingham, who can’t get outs in the NL Central where a pitcher hits, this is all lost on you. But if your opinion is, replace a 2+ WHIP pitcher for another, then Kingham is absolutely your guy. I would have been fine with a pitcher from AA rising up. Jesse Litsch did it so there’s precedence. You can look up that word to find out what it means.
It is great to steal players. It’s not happening with this guy. Our philosophy is much different; you want to find garbage, I want guys in the system to believe they have a real chance. My way inspires confidence, yours doesn’t. That is why your way, and the Jays way, does not work. It’s a loser mentality, and I know you don’t have to look that up because you wear it well.
it is relatively common that a player changes organizations and has an uptick in performance. not saying the odds are great but it is a cheap lottery ticket. nothing wrong with taking a chance on a former prospect to see if there is life in his surgically repaired arm. just fint count on it if you are Jsys mgmt.
Nothing wrong with taking a chance on your own players within the organization. There are guys out of University at 22-23 years old in A and High-A pitching very well and deserve a promotion to the next level. That is where the Blue Jays should be focused – the possible future contributors. The Nick Kingham’s and other nonsense acquisitions do not allow that. The organization needs to give these guys a chance when performance merits a reward.
They are not doing that. These guys may amount to nothing, but I am willing to find out.
Hey guess what Luciano has been put of the Il to allow for another player to play?
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
The Jays have a system where a guy sporting a WHIP over 2 must be replaced by another.
Future Cy Young contender.
One question in regards to the Jays acquiring Nick Kingman. To the other 29 teams have Atkins and Shapiro on speed dial. 1-800-Dump
Classic: “1-800-Dump”
It wouldn’t surprise me if Nick Kingham turns into a nice player in the future. The Pirates always seem to use pitchers in the wrong way and then that player goes elsewhere and puts up great numbers.
Wonder who else we can sell low on.
Kingham has good stuff but with any Pirate pitcher you need great stuff since their pitching sequence is so predictable that hitters usually have a good idea of exactly what and where they are getting pitched in any particular count. Opposing teams don’t need to steal the catchers signals because the coaching staff already have their hitters ready for the never changing pitching sequence Hurdle and Searage have their battery use game after game. Why else would the Pirates be tops in the league in walks and hits given up after getting ahead 0-2 on hitters.
Sounds like the new Edwin Jackson
The Jays are a dumpster for the detritus of teams even as bad as the Pirates. Shapkins are the patsies of MLB. AA must be sad that the organization & scouting department he built is being burnt to the ground. Also feel sorry for Buck Martinez having to apologize for this disaster on air. Why didn’t they challenge the call at 2B yesterday? #DumpsterFire #FireShapkins
AA walked into the greatest situation any GM could have ever asked for. I’m sure he’s over it.
What many of the Jays fans above do not seem to grasp is the lack of positive, winning culture created by this regime and the last 3 GMs. Even if Nick Kingham performs adequate, this isn’t how you build it. Using current organization talent and giving every player in the system a belief they can make it will help create that culture the Jays need to have. That isn’t accomplished by collecting scraps.
Can anything be worse than watch the current Jays rotation[except for Stroman] this year? We heard how bad this was going to be in spring training from many here is these pages.
Yet Atkins doesn’t sign anyone of note or bundle prospects to get some decent pitching.
Unbelieveable.
I need to remember it is a tank…it is a tank…it is a tank even though Atkin admitted he didn’t think the club would be this bad. A forced tank due to incompetence of the Mgmt. Beautiful!
There is a time and place, now is not the place to start packaging prospects. The time and place was after 2016. Sign Edwin, do not sign Morales, Pearce or Bautista, get an OF bat with a trade involving Alford and either Connor Greene or Sean Reid-Foley.
Secondary move; tear down July 2017. Donaldson had to be dealt, among others. Imagine what the Jays could have had?
The wait set this organization back. Now they are in no position to deal youth for studs. Next year, perhaps. The Jays will find out what they have at the major league level and allow the guys in the minors to raise their profile.
They can’t be pulling a San Diego or Cincy just yet. It’s not the time.
I like the idea of the Jays trading bundles or prospects now in order to obtain near ready arms. I am not suggesting that they bundle prospects for middle of the rotation older guys/overpaid guys or stars just yet.
Nice debut Kingham. Buy low, sell high. Yeah, it’s just one game. A game where 2 earned runs over 2 innings lowered his ERA. Welcome to the American League.
Just more innings fodder. He’ll be cut soon as will Richard, Jackson, and Buckholz -or move them all to the bullpen and use opners for every game except Stroman.
They need to trade Giles as soon as they can and put Sanchez in as closer.
Then call up kids to fill holes.
It’s not just the tank that gets me, it is the fact that the Jays Mgmt actually think all of these decisions that they have made are good moves.