6:11pm: Kimbrel is seeking a contract in the range of the deals the Rockies’ Wade Davis (three years, $52MM) and the Yankees’ Zack Britton (three years, $39MM) received over the previous couple offseasons, Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reports on Twitter. Those look like reasonable asking prices for Kimbrel, yet there’s no indication he’s close to signing anywhere.
12:32am: With the excitement of a new season, it’s easy to forget that one of the game’s most accomplished relief pitchers is still sitting on the sideline after failing to find a contract over the offseason. Star closer Craig Kimbrel remains available — and that fact that is due largely to his own unrealistic asking prices, Jim Bowden argues at The Athletic (subscription link).
According to Bowden, agent Dave Meter not only set out in search of a six-year, $120MM for Kimbrel, but has continued to demand a record-seeking deal this spring. Bowden claims that, “even as late as March,” the Kimbrel camp “was still seeking a five-year pact in the $100 million range.”
If indeed that’s the case, it would be hard to escape the conclusion that Kimbrel and/or Meter have simply failed to recognize the reality of Kimbrel’s market standing. Despite his historic excellence, there were some well-documented issues with his free-agent case. That’s why MLBTR predicted a four-year, $70MM contract rather than a record-setting, nine-figure pact.
While a nine-figure bonanza was never likely achievable, it’s certainly possible that mistaken market posturing cost Kimbrel a chance at a deal of the sort we expected. It’s also all but impossible to say that with any real confidence without knowing quite a bit more than is publicly available.
Even if Bowden is correct regarding the Kimbrel side’s expressed beliefs regarding his value, it’s not clear at all that Kimbrel ever fielded and rejected any truly significant contract offers. (Bowden does say that “specific, and significant, offers, or at least ranges of potential contract proposals” were made, though details aren’t available.) Perhaps the player-side negotiating position prevented that from happening, but that’s not something that can be assessed with certitude.
Whatever the case, it’s a tough spot now for Kimbrel and his rep. (Somewhat ironically, Meter is also under fire for rather different reasons after another client inked an eyebrow-raising recent extension.) Their present bargaining position isn’t really known, but it’s certainly becoming harder and harder to imagine a multi-year arrangement coming together — let alone one that compensates Kimbrel commensurate with his still-lofty present ability levels.
While some teams have evidently been interested in discussing longer-term proposals, their own willingness may not be the same at this point of the year. Bowden says that most of those clubs now simply want to score a “bargain basement deal” with Kimbrel, though perhaps it’s still possible that one or more will do more if they truly believe it’s necessary to convince Kimbrel to get back in action and see enough of a team need. (Certainly, there’s no shortage of teams with bullpen needs.)
It’s not an altogether different situation for veteran starter Dallas Keuchel. Bowden also chides him and agent Scott Boras for taking an unreasonable starting position and failing to adapt, though in that case it’s said that specific demands weren’t made in early talks.
Where and when these two hurlers might sign remains anyone’s guess. In a recent poll, MLBTR readers predicted that deals wouldn’t come until after the June draft, at which time draft compensation will no longer be required to add either player. If you’re interested in reading more about possible landing spots, the situation isn’t all that different than it was when MLBTR recently analyzed Kimbrel’s and Keuchels’s market standing team by team.
He’s retiring. You heard it here first!
Joshua, did you mean to say: you “beard” it here first?
He’d gladly shave beard for NYY interest, before retiring
You know this how? Did Kimbrel tell you he’d shave?
Brilliant comment Joshua
I’m disappointed they didn’t put my theory in the article.
MLBTR PickleRiccck seems to believe the holdup in the Kimbrel and Keuchel market is related to teams unwillignness to offer Bartolo Colon a contract.
He should retire. Why is everyone ignoring his collapse last season? There were many times when the velocity was lacking, or his accuracy wasn’t there. Then there were those times when he was throwing more off-speed pitches than fastballs. If you’re gonna reply saying that he he had personal issues, that’s a load of crap. I think that it’s a far more physical problem. If he thinks he’s in the class of a Mariano Rivera, he’s got a mental issue there, too. He should face reality, the same reality that the owners know: he’s well past his prime and should admit it to himself and retire.
You mad bro?
The greed of the agents continues to cost players money.
The greed of owners continues to cost players money. It works both ways.
Humans are greedy. It’s a good survival trait.
Agreed
Seven deadly!
I’m particularly into sloth and gluttony myself
Greed is a terrible thing.
The difference is that the owners are totally fine whether they sign Kimbrel, or not. He needs them much more than they need him. And he knows that.
..but it’s going to look real bad if he never signs, and absolutely crush the owners in the next CBA with people having massive leverage.
they will prob cut the lux tax which helps everyone..including cheapskate owners who will stay cheapskates.
Yankees, BoSox etc have money to spend, but didn’t because of the tax..
In some ways it helps as Machado/Harper aren’t AL East as usual.
..but it backfires when teams like A’s & Pirates don’t budge on guys like Kuechel/Kimbrel etc ever.
There has to be a cap floor to go along with a raised lux tax bar
How are the owners going to get crushed in next CBA? The owners and players have to agree to any changes, and the owners have no incentive to do anything other than minor tweaks to the current cba.
The problem with the cap floor is that then bad players will have to be signed to bad contracts to go over the floor
Not true at all. As long as the tax is still in place, it would lead to teams trading for good players from teams with bloated payrolls. Also, if the floor is based on tax-salary, then it will lead to more early extensions as well. Also, there are plenty of good players to sign in free agency. For instance, if the Rays had to take on $20m more salary to hit a floor, they sign one of the best closers of all time, rather than some scrub utility infielder as you suggest.
YankeeDynasty is right. Hockey has plenty of examples where undeserving or washed up players receive big money from teams attempting to reach the floor, forcing teams to extend star players early and often before the market changes. Bad teams are forced to spend money just to reach the floor. Some teams wonder why they continue to suck when they are saddled with bad contracts of fading players.
Hard floor is a bad idea.
That’s not really true yankee. Teams don’t just go out looking for bad players. And even if that was a problem, just give each of your players an extra 500 thousand on what you think is a fair contract and it quickly adds up. That problem goes away
If the players decide to strike (and I read in various places that it could well happen), the owners will have plenty of incentive to make concessions.
Your exactly right!! I’ve been saying that for a while.
Will they though? Owners make a large portion of their money from the local tv rights. Following that the big payday comes when they sale the teams. Both of those sources of income happen regardless of who is in uniform.
Most teams are paying around 50% of their earnings in payroll for players. That is entirely fair when you take into consideration other salaries being paid for scouts, player development, front offices, etc…
Then you look at players who are getting serious bank. Anyone want Chris Davis? What about Pujols? What about Choo? Almost every team has had a horrific albatross of a contract. Mega contracts have burned teams so many times.
Then you look at the extensions handed out, are those unfair? What about players turning down lucrative offers? Is that unfair?
I wish my team would have some better players and I go to the games to watch the guys in uniform. But the players and their agents are whack in some of their contract demands.
Hockey doesn’t have several decent veteran players otherwise needing to take below market or minor league deals just to get a job, while some guys like Matt Holliday can’t find a job at all. With a salary floor, teams that would otherwise tank would then have to sign some of these decent veterans to decent contracts to act as decent stopgaps while they rebuild. Furthermore, it helps some of their prospects get proper minor league seasoning instead of being rushed to the Big Leagues before they’re ready just to save a few million bucks here or there.
Don’t forget about the salaries for the 6-7 farm teams and those coaches and trainers, and the daily meal money which is thousands per day per team and rookie teams, last I remembered players were getting 100 per day at rookie level for meals, don’t forget housing for all rookies which is payed by teams, and the international spending, I could go on and on with what the owners spend on fielding teams, I wish my Team would go the extra mile and get some pitching while on the subject of spending.
That is partially true. Teams don’t hand out bad contracts in the NHL to reach the cap floor – they get creative and will trade for bad contracts (with futures attached) to reach the cap floor. Usually this comes in the form of a player on LTIR who is considered done and isn’t going to take up a roster spot but $$$ still counts towards the cap. Face saving move – the org gets prospects/picks while the wealthy get cap relief.
and why does your tone come off like the owners are more important than the players? owner greed isn’t good for baseball, period.
Yeah, the NBA does this all the time – trades for bad/over-the-hill player because there’s a floor. I know this was a long time ago, but Penny Hardaway spent like the last 5 years of his career on the injured list, having his contract passed around, because he was getting paid a lot. He never played, but his contract was valuable to teams, since they could use his salary to get above the floor while also putting him on the IL and freeing up a roster spot for someone with value.
The greed of the players continues to cost players money.
If he was worth that money he would be with a team right now
They just need to take away the draft incentives for finishing in last place. Right now, half the league is disincentivized from fielding a competitive team and spending money. Tie draft selection to a lottery instead, similar to the NBA.
Right. Because the NBA is entirely free of tanking teams.
You could also say the greed of the players continues to cost the players money. That’s how a free market works. It’s beautiful!
The greed of the players cost the players money.
Sorry, but refusing to pay a closer $100 million is just common sense. It hasn’t happened yet and a guy who is on the wrong side of thirty and coming off an off-year should not be expecting it.
And he isn’t looking for that.
He was, until recently
Yes there is greed all around, but Kimbrel’s is preventing him from working right now
The agent has nothing to do with it!
Both of these players are trending downward, not upward in their careers. Owners finally figured out that overpaying guys isn’t the way to go…Miggy, Pujols, Ellsbury, YU, Davis……
Kimbrel to the non-beardys in neewyaaaark, Kuechel back to da Stros soon enough
kimbrel will be sitting out an awfully long time if he thinks teams are going to give him 5/100
Don’t you just love when MLBTR is off by hundreds of millions of dollars on the Harper/Machado predictions but claim they nailed the fact that Kimbrel couldn’t get $100M (and should have settled for $70M)?
I believe that was less of bragging and more so a way to let people know that Kimbrel’s demands were always unrealistic
Unrealistic to who? The owners?
No, unrealistic to real life facts. It’s unreal how some of you just blame the owners for absolutely everything.
Certainly Sox fans agree it’s unrealistic…we had our fingers crossed and could barely watch when he was on the mound last postseason…I was shocked to hear the salary he wanted..I figured after that postseason he’d take the QO
But no such claim of unrealistic demands for Bryce Harper or Manny Machado at start of the offseason. Jeff Todd is Captain Hindsight
Bryce and Manny made out just fine. Hard to peg outliers.
@FakeNews_ Well, when you start your own baseball website, we’ll be sure to hold you to a higher standard. Until then, find something else to whine about.
Age of those players plus the positions they play helped.
Calm down there Little Guy. Nothing I said was incorrect so why are you crying?
Aroldis Chapman was a 30 year old elite RP who signed a 5yr/$86MM contract.
Craig Kimbrel is a 30 year old elite RP who wanted to sign a 6yr/$100MM contract.
Considering who it’s only been a year since Chapman’s contract, who did not have a draft compensation associated with him, it was quite the reach of Kimbrel and his agent to try and top Chapman.
Problem is there are only a handful of teams that don’t mind breaking the bank. They are at the top of the salary cap. Boston, NY, LA would spend $250-$300 mil per year and put All Stars in every position but MLB stopped that with the cap and luxury tax!
MLBTR has been leading the charge for Kimbrel and his agent…..
The teams are taking on so much revenue; the owners are cheap and won’t spend; budgets don’t matter; look at how little some individual teams have on the books after 2019 (as if those teams won’t have large payrolls when they get their guys and others signed up). And the worst one – riling up the townfolk by stating that teams such as the Braves and Twins have plenty of money to spend, won’t do it, and are cheating their fans.
Now it comes out that Kimbrel’s agent as late as March was standing firm for 5/100? No FO in their right mind is going to do that for a relief pitcher that showed signs of regression late in the 2018 season and into the playoffs. Relief pitching is not only the most volatile area of an MLB team, once those pitchers go they go fast. Some once-dominant closers hang on as set-up guys, but who in their right mind wants to be on the hook for $20m a year for 5 years to a set-up guy? Instead of the fans from possible landing cities getting mad at their FO’s and owners, they should be thanking them for showing restraint. Let Krimbel show he’s healthy by agreeing to a one year contract at a reasonable salary, then giving the team options for escalating salaries year-by-year. If he’s the reincarnation of Mariano Rivera, this should be easy enough for him to carry off.
Does not take MLBTR to tell me the Twins are cheap. Been watching it for 50 plus years.
lol
Col. Taylor;
If you think they’re cheap now, imagine what would happen if they were stuck with a $20m a year so-so setup pitcher for 5 years.
Hey, y’all signed Brad Radke to that big deal.
Both these dudes won the World Series and would rarher have a ton of precious money than stay and be a pillar in their communities a la Trevor Hoffman or Tony Gwynn or Derek Jeter or Frank Thomas or Cal Ripken or … the list goes on. I love good baseball, our National Pastime. Boras, Dallas, the rest of you guys, no one really misses you.
A) Thomas wasn’t a single-franchise player. He hit number 500 with Toronto.
B) Those players got paid their market value. Gwynn was the third highest paid player in baseball for a stint. Hoffman had the record for a relief pitcher contract at one point. Ripken had the second highest AAV in baseball when he signed an extension.
It’s a lot easier to be a pillar of the community when you’re making top-of-the-market money. Those players never had to decide between “have a ton of precious money” and “stay.”
A) Frank Thomas is a White Sock for life. Don’t be a cad with your trivia.
B) AAV? Some of these stats are getting way out of hand. I don’t know what that is and I’m proud. How about HRHP? That’s Home Runs Hit Personally. You are stuck at 0 I’m sure
C) It’s not easy to be a pillar of the community. It’s easy to be greedy. Every player I mentioned could have left for more money if they really wanted to.
D) You’re not touching Jeter. Good Call.
By the way do you miss Dallas and Craig? I don’t. Do you like agents Boras? I don’t. I like baseball not business
Why are you on a baseball site like this without knowledge of something as basic as AAV?
I believe I covered that question in my last sentence. Really though dude, hit one over the fence it will change your life. You will not regret it.
Jeter was so highly paid I thought it went without saying. And AAV is average annual value, aka all the dudes you love so much we’re making insane money and not being lowballed by their clubs. It’s admirable they stayed, sure. But they were fortunate enough to have their original clubs appreciate them enough to shell out.
I don’t get the hate towards players in this. If you could get a higher paying job doing whatever it is you do, I imagine you’d take it without worrying about being a legend at your old place of work. It’s the same for them.
I disagree. I value quality of life ober extra money. I don’t hate Kimbrel and Dallas. It’s just that to me there isn’t a big difference between $10,000 an inning and $15,000. $10,000 for an inning is a ton of money. Although $15,000 is 33% more, $10,000 is plenty. I also have a sense of tradition, National Pastime, and other various intangibles including being a positive role model vs. being like, well, a harlot. By the way $15,000 an inning is around 21M per year and $10,000 is around 15M.
“I don’t know what we’re talking about and I’m proud”. Cool. Almost as good as “you shot down 3 of my 4 points but didn’t touch Jeter so I win”. Brilliant. Pud.
Thomas was not a CWS lifer, he jumped to other teams like OAK & TOR. You really need to lookup AAV in order to participate in this discussion, it’s simple math, basic division really, average annual value… ie- a 5yr/$100mil contract has a $20mil/yr AAV. NYY would never let Jeter hit the open market. There are plenty of teams that miss Keuchel & Kimbrel but they’re all insanely profitable like every MLB team but too cheap & ignorant to care sufficiently to prioritize winning.
Baseball is big business, that is all. Get with it.
Pud? Hey dude – I’m glad you’re cofessing on Friday Night. Back to the topic please. How’s your all-time HRHP? That’s Homeruns Hit Personally. Stuck on 0 for life, I’m sure.
I did look up Frank Thomas. He played all but his last 3 years with the White Sox. He is a White Sock. He is wearing a White Sox hat in his HOF Plaque. Like I told the other guy, don’t be a cad with your trivia.
I get that you’re being unnecessarily combative about this but come on. Kimbrel was traded twice before hitting free agency but you want him to be loyal?
Keuchel was a 7th round pick and has had his salary suppressed the entire time, even as a Cy Young winner.
Why are you caping for billionaires instead of the dudes you actually watch day to day?
And congrats on apparently having hit a homer in your life. I’m sure your parents are proud. That doesn’t change the fact that you’re just a dude commenting on MLBTR like the rest of us. I hope it helps you sleep at night.
I’ll just respond to the last paragraph. Thanks, I’ve hit more than one. It is quite an accomplishment. As for sleep at night I’m not sure. During the day it’s been great. It’s like living in another tax bracket. If you are a hardcore baseball fan, actually being able to hang with the pros will change your entire point of view. It will change your life.
Convenient that you ignore anything that actually argues against your point.
And neat, I’m happy for you, Alex B.
Unless your last name is Blandino or Bregman, props on being a has-been or never-was. I really doubt people who can “hang with the pros” are trolling the comments section of MLBTR.
And, if by chance you are somehow Alex Blandino or Bregman either a) I hope you make it back to the majors and get a fair salary or b) I’m bummed you didn’t wait til free agency because man you could have made a lot more than 6/$100M.
I don’t hate the players at all. But the huge salaries are a different story. As a Ranger fan I’m slightly jaded from watching Choo pull down crazy bucks. Then seeing Fielder getting paid more in 6 months than I’ll make my entire career. And watching Arod sign the biggest contract at the time only to gripe about his teammates.
So it’s not the players, but rather that they get paid crazy insane amounts of money regardless of whether they produce at all (Chris Davis). Then these mega underperforming contracts hamstring the team.
I’d love to see the long term contracts end and would love to see the younger players make more bank.
Point is, yeah players should take all the money they can get. But when Chris Davis can be one of the worst players in the history of baseball while also being extremely highly compensated, with no risk of being penalized that’s where I have a problem. I could go get a higher salary, but I’d be held to higher standards. If I failed to perform, my salary would be adjusted accordingly.
That’s fair if you accept that the teams can only afford what they say they can. These are billion dollar corporations. With few exceptions they *could* afford a lot more. These contracts hamstring their ability to make an obscene amount of money, not their ability to actually field a competitive team.
The ownership team of the Rangers is worth north of $5 billion. If winning was the highest priority, they could have a better team. But realistically it’s just one item on a checklist that effects profitability. That’s fine, it’s their business, they can do whatever they want. But the point is, it isn’t hamstringing them in the sense that it impacts anyone’s livelihood.
Also, they have a colossal amount of insurance, Fielder’s full contract isn’t coming out of their pockets.
I get that it’s frustrating for a mediocre player to be taking up a ton of payroll. I’m a Braves fan and still bummed about the BJ Upton signing a few years ago. That being said, the percentage of payroll anyone takes up is arbitrary and based entirely on what an ownership group decides is the budget.
Baseball is a business..
Every single one of us would be much better off if Scott Boras was negotiating our salaries & benefits.
10 billion dollar a year industry, yet players are greedy for wanting a fair cut of the proceeds.
So tell us, do you work for free? Do you not have expense’s? Do you have perfect health, never get sick?
We all know the answers to these question, yet your arguments are so disingenuous.
Simple question, do teams give money back to fans or rights holders when they under perform?
Do hedge fund managers give back money when they fail to perform? Do CEO’s take a lower salary when company tanks?
We know those answers, then why think it would be right or reasonable to think hey Chris Davis u suck now, we dont owe you the money we signed you too.
Look at NFL, avg career is 4 years, the sport destroys peoples bodies and minds. Yet owners got the players to agree to a system where only signing bonuses are guaranteed.
But what you are ignoring is that with the current rules to does hamstring a team if they are willing to blow through and beyond the luxury tax. So many of the young talents and prospects that people are excited about are international signings. Domestic prospects come from the draft. Tax repeaters are not just penalized with financial penalties, but also with draft and international spending penalties. Spend like billionaires, and then risk your future.
Are you a weak troll or absolutely clueless? You talk about Jeter, he signed an extension 18 years ago that is still the 17th largest contract ever and the 2nd highest SS contract behind ARod ever. Not even close to an example of a player sacrificing to stay in a community he loves. Let me guess, I haven’t hit a MLB HR so you can roll out your weak put downs now instead of educating yourself.
Jeter the cheater
He played in Oakland in between his two stints in Chicago.
Except all of us would get fired in a heartbeat if we performed like Chris Davis.
Jet er made a ton of money off the field by branding himself as a Yankee…wouldn’t have happened as a Marlin!!!
You don’t like harlots but you sleep with strippers. OK, got it. Thanks.
And you criticize players because they don’t put the National Pastime above making the most they can in a sport where the average player is washed up before the age of 35. Cool.
BTW, I’ve hit multiple home-runs, mostly of the inside-the-park variety. I was a summer camp counselor, playing against 8 year olds, but hey, they changed my life.
AAV = average annual value, very simple division. Total dollar figure divided by number of years. Doesn’t matter if no one here played, that’s no response of any substance, it’s a non-entity amidst a baseball discussion.
You don’t root for the bottom line, you root for wins, period.
That is not what being a lifer is. Entire career with one team- Jeter NYY, Gwynn SD, RIPKEN BAL… Not Thomas regardless if he’s in HOF as CWS… that is not a lifer, that is a concrete fact, no room for anything else.
Gwynn, Hoffman and Jeter sure didnt give back their paychecks.. Last time we checked Jeter lives in Miami now, not NYC or Michigan where he is from..
Trevor Hoffman left San Diego and signed with the Brewers.
Both will sign 1 year deals with whatever contenders lose a big starter and closer to season ending injury. It’s bound to happen. Likely after the draft, then both guys re-enter free agency this offseason with no pick attached. (Hopefully with better strategies)
I believe I covered that question in my last sentence. Really though dude, hit one over the fence it will change your life. You will not regret it.
So Keuchel “might” be willing to sign a 1y deal now, only for more than the 17.9m he (Boras) already turned down and in order to fix the other mistake Boras made.. (asking ridiculous money all winter and spring). he’ll sign that pillow deal, only for more.
It’s funny all around for Keuchel. Why not just change agents. Same with Kimbrell dumping Meter? It sounds like both made nothing but mistakes and now, both Keuchel and Kimbrell are paying for it.
This has nothing to do with socialist values some are spouting off above in rambling posts about greedy owners and other nonsense. This is idiotic mistakes and being stubborn by agents being flat our wrong.
Keuchel makes the final decision to turn that down, not Boras.
Exactly. The agent gets out there, markets and negotiates, and then advises the player on what he believes is and isn’t possible based on current market temperature, offers, etc. Then the player chooses what to do with that information. As much as you seem to love to slam Boras, you always seem to do so for the wrong reasons, or attempt to simplify it like this and miss. And I’m in the camp that believes he isn’t the greatest.
It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to find out that Boras pulled a snowjob on Keuchel, and convinced him he’s worth more than he is. Sure the player bears the responsibility and makes the final decisions, but if he hired Boras, he did it because he values his opinions and advice. Hiring him and then ignoring that advice wouldn’t make much sense.
If neither had the “loss of draft pick” tied to them they’d be pitching in 2019 under new contracts already..
Not sure about that, but, what is prwtty certain is if neither held out so long on unrealistic demands they’d also be pitching already…
This one lies squarely on the agents/players. Either the agents didn’t read the way the market was after the first few weeks/month and advise the player, or the player ignored said advice.
Likewise, it appears players didn’t reach out to the agent and say, hey, we tried it, didn’t work, drop the price.
I can tell you right now the Braves have the money and the history to land him, but they can’t afford to lose the pick because of coppy and crew. They are the favorites but it all depends if he lasts until after the draft is over or if a contender ponies up to his demands by then. Time will tell if the demand overpowers the supply by draft time.
It’s obvious he wants to be back in Atl especially during spring training. Its where his hearts at and wants to finish his swan song, just like bmac.
Ur post mirrors pretty much exactly what the entirety of Bowden’s article says. He is one of the sports writers who doesn’t get side tracked into homerism towards a specific team, like many do and is correct IMO on many of his articles.
He really took Boras and Meter to the wood shed this time and deservedly so.
There were a lot of rumors Milwaukee was prepared to give him a three year deal at 57 million. That’s still a lot of money and would have been good security and term for Kimbrel. But ego and greed intervene and now the guy is in nowhere land. He is a great pitcher to watch and would help anyone so it’s a sad outcome. Agents hurt so many players by feeding unrealistic expectations. Hader and Kimbrel and Jefress would have been exciting for Milwaukee
If these guys wait until June to sign wouldn’t they need at least 3 weeks to pitch in the minors to help their teams. We are talking possibly after the all-star break. Keuchel would possibly have 12 starts, Kimbrel would have possibly 30 appearances. And who knows if they are able to pitch well with the extended absence. Everything is tied to that stupid draft pick totally ridiculous as 90% of the so called great draft picks end up doing nothing special. There are only a few Mike Trouts in the history of the game.
Here is a list of other comp picks that had impacts on their teams because of rule.
Rafael Palmeiro
Johnny Damon
David Wright
Mark Langston
Torii Hunter
Mark Gubicza
Wally Joyner
Shawn Green
Jacoby Ellsbury
Todd Zeile
Travis Fryman
Brian Jordan
Rondell White
Chris Carpenter
Brian Roberts
Adam Wainwright
Nick Swisher
Gio Gonzalez
mike trout, too! comp pick for that teixei…… guy.
Nobody is mentioning the Qualifying offer attached to these guys. Draft picks are at a premium it’s the main reason the Braves haven’t gone after him.
It is been said several times that people believe he will sign after the draft, where a team would not lose a pick associated with him rejecting a QO.
But it seems like the assumption is that Kimbrel is still only going to get a one year deal even after the draft, and that’s what I disagree with. I think owners value those high picks more than this article lets on. There’s no higher AAV than on high-end prospects on cheap rookie deals. More high picks gives you more chances at hitting on those guys.
Kimbrel is a special case because of his position. SPs and position players signed this late would need time to build up their length, timing, etc. that’s not as important for a relief guy. In fact, how many times have teams traded for great RPs mid-season only to have them burn out by October from throwing too many innings? It might even be an advantage for Kimbrel to have not thrown yet this year.
Moreover, regardless of their spending habits in the spring, contending teams have still been more than willing to spend in dollars and prospects at the deadline for a run at the WS. Teams still want to win, they just want to make sure they’re investing when they have the best chance to do so. The market in early June might have fewer suitors, but they should be hungrier. How often do you get to essentially “trade” for a high-end closer mid-season for cash only without giving up a prospect?
I don’t know that he gets 5/100, but I’m guessing he gets closer to that than the 1 year prove-it deals people keep throwing out there. I’m guessing at least 3 years with AAV at least as high as the 17.9 he turned down with the QO
Kimbrell has made 55 million already in his career, he has a disabled toddler at home, maybe he’s calling it a career to be close to family
you should not include family in this. maybe he is trying to make a lot to provide for family.
How is it not a fair point? He’s been on record saying that it has impacted him on the field preparing.
He’s made a lot for his family. At some point maybe being with them is more important
Can everyone stop looking up raw salaries and saying thats how much money they made? Kimbrel most certainly does not have 55 million in the bank. Taxes, agent fees, helping family, medical costs etc. are always thrown out the door due to this lazy analysis.
It was always a stupid and dangerous thing to make pro sports salaries public in this way, because now you’re thinking Kimbrel has 55 million when he probably has something closer to 10 mill in the bank
I hate to say it, but Kimbrel’s agent should have been taking a closer look at the market. The Red Sox were too close to the threshold. They should have known early that wasn’t happening. The Yankees, Dodgers and Mets are all locked in at closer.
That leaves really the Phillies, Braves and maybe a team like the Brewers as the only options. With the Phillies other expenditures, it was unlikely that a multi-year deal was ever in the cards there.
Then looking at the Braves and Brewers, neither is quite at the point yet that they are ready to lock in a closer for 6/120.
So, even if the market hadn’t had a down year to begin with, there was never going to be a 6/120 deal out there. If he’d pitched himself at the right time to the Braves or Brewers he probably could have locked in a 4/70-80 deal with an opt-out after year 2 if he proves the downturn in his numbers were a fluke.
I don’t know if this is Craig or his agent pushing this number, but it was never realistic. I think its time to pitch the 1-year deal route to teams and see who the highest bidder will be for his 2019 services. If he really thinks he’s worth 6/120 and if he really is, get the 1/20 this year and throw yourself back out there for 5/100 next year.
Thing is , even if he does a one year deal after this saga it will leave him no closer to a multi year deal next off season. He will be a year older and with teams knowing he fell back to a one year deal. He will forced into another one year deal in all likelihood.
The strategy of greed blew up in his face. Allegedly there were teams like Milwaukee offering counter three year deals but his agent yawned. Now he will be lucky to land a good one year deal
Even if he does sign after the draft, he likely won’t be ready to pitch in MLB games until July. So it would essentially be a pro-rated half-year deal.
$120 million for 70 innings a year tops. Lol, yeah….OK. No thanks.
he may bring 50 more wins to a team with a bad pen.
Yeah I don’t see a lot of 50 War seasons out of relievers.
50 in saves+holds are very much a possibility in top relief pitchers. besides, ‘war’ shortchanges them.
Most teams don’t have 50 blown saves/holds, and one pitcher wouldn’t eliminate all of them.
By most I mean all.
Where is that Strikefour idiot to bemoan the poor players who can’t make any money due to those evil greedy owners?
He went show up. Remember the owners should be ashamed of themselves for screwing the players out of millions, oh wait that’s not right. I bet strikefour is the account for Scott Boras. So delusional.
Please don’t stir him up.
He’s probably at a DescriptionOccupy Wall Street rally
* Occupy Wall Street
Maybe picked up for loitering in the wrong kind of city..
Did any team offer Kimbrel any deal? I don’t think I heard any numbers exchange. I know Bowden claims significant offers were made so why don’t we know any numbers. We knew that in case of all other free agents well before they signed. To me this is the most surprising fact. So many teams could offer him high AAV, 1-3 year contracts.
He might be better off waiting past next June so at least teams will only be paying money for his services, not draft compensation.
@ FS54….Yes, the Twins offered him 3 years and $45 million with an option for a 4th. He laughed. I bet he’s not laughing now.
As an owner, I would have no problem giving Kimbrel a deal with 3 years guaranteed with option years attached. I do not feel obligated to take on the risk of 6 guaranteed years to reward a guy for past year results when I am taking a huge risk with a closer entering his 30’s with closers having a history of crashing and burning quickly at that age. A couple of years younger? Yes, I would offer a longer term high dollar guaranteed contract.
They do? Seems to me we have 40 year old closers in the game. Fernando Rodney was 41 last season and still getting the job done. Last season 23 of the top 30 closers were 30 or older. 4 more were 29.
Unlike position players, pitchers peak in their early 30’s with relievers peaking at 33.
Your stats are completely bogus. Rodney is an exception , not the rule of thumb. Baseballl organizations have been offering long term deals to guys over 30 with diminishing frequency. And for good reasons. Owners run teams for profits. They are entertainment businesses.
1) Raise the pay for minor leaguers.
2) Raise the pay for pre-arbs to
First year = $1M
Second year = $2M
3) Eliminate the top end luxury tax brackets
4) Eliminate the penalty for signing QO FA’s.
5) Allow teams to trade draft picks
6) Reduce team control to 5 years
7) Expand to 32 teams
8) Eliminate inter-league games
All of these are great, but the owners have to agree. Which of these benefits them?
Good question. I’d say not adding the (currently planned) 26th man to the roster helps them. Eliminating luxury brackets, being able to trade draft picks and not giving up draft picks for signing QO’s helps them. Some of these are neither to the owners’ detriment nor the players’ benefit, like 7 and 8. What else do you think they’d want in order to do some of these things?
1) Yes, definitely.
2) Maybe, although that second year minimum seems pretty high.
3) Is that really necessary. The bigger issue is that the luxury tax marks were set too low in the last CBA.
4) So only give out extra picks to the teams that lose those free agents? I don’t know about that. Competitive balance suggests that there should be some kind of penalty for signing top tier free agents. Besides, they already lowered the penalties significantly, most notably guaranteeing every team’s first round pick.
5) Possibly, but it’s not really needed, and it doesn’t solve any real problems.
6) Maybe, although that would be a big change and would require a big concession to the owners in return. Lowering it any further than 5 would be too big of a blow to competitive balance for the small market teams, though.
7) Only if the new markets are likely to be able to support an MLB franchise. We don’t need any new teams that wind up drawing like the Rays.
8) No way! The inter-league games are a good thing!
2) Maybe it’s a little high. My main concern was the minimum for rookies.
3) Agree that raising them or eliminating them would have about the same affect.
4) The competitive balance argument helps teams but hurts players. Maybe shifting down in the draft but not losing picks would suffice.
5) I think it would help small market teams who won’t be able to keep their stars. They could trade for picks, reloading their farms.
6) Agree about the effect on small market teams. The problem with service time manipulation needs some sort of fix, though.
7) Agreed. This would dovetail with #8, eliminating the need for inter-league games.
8) Inter-league schedules aren’t equal, and some teams have a tougher road to the post-season because they play a tougher inter-league schedule. If you said that inter-league games didn’t count toward your win total (or some other such adjustment), then I’d be OK with keeping them. In that case, I’d like to see the DH used in the NL parks and the pitcher hitting in the AL parks. Let the NL fans see the slugger who can’t play a position, and let the AL fans see the double switch etc.
9) Add the DH to the NL
I support all of those things, Tony Clark needs to use that list as his jumping off point.
Along with interleague, we really need to balance the schedule too. It’s getting annoying watching fake good teams gets bounced out the playoffs in a sweep, when there was a better team in a different division who had to play tougher opponents simply because they are geographically located closer to them.
If you expanded to 16 teams per league and got rid of inter-league, then the balanced schedule would be a by-product. I’m not a fan of the DH in the NL, but I’m not mortally opposed to it. I do think it and roster expansion will happen before team expansion.
I think these players sign after the draft for one year. If they don’t pitch at an elite level, their markets for next year will be terrible.
Players need to know when to waive the white flag. A week into Spring Training, it’s time to take the best deal available.
I don’t get why Kimbrel doesn’t just try to match Chapman’s AAV?? Like seriously dude, you’re not worth 5yr/$100M.
Like seriously dude, he is worth more than Chapman. He is better.
Total BS! He turned down a 3 year / $45 million offer from the Twins.
Which was an insult for the best reliever in the game. Chapman got much more and he was was same age wen he signed his and not as good as Kimbrel.
Well then now he can sit his butt on the sideline then.
Realistic for the best reliever in the game is the best contract in the game.
Not so.
He is one of the best, but his asking price is so much higher.
Also, he is no Chapman.
no, Kimbrel is significantly better then Chapman at this point. Chapman is great, but Kimbel is a whole other level of dominance.
Edwin Diaz is not even Arb eligible yet.
Certitude?!
*Checks Dictionary.com
Oh my gosh, that’s a real word! Why butcher the English language like that when you can just say “certainty” instead?!
Oh my gosh, a big word?! What in the Wide World of Sports is the world becoming? You had to use a dictionary?! Call Homeland Security!
What does your comment have to do with baseball? Please don’t distract from the topic at hand.
cubs have the money and need for Kimbrel, but won’t sign him because the team is “broke”. If you believe an organization worth $2B can’t afford an extra $17M+ annually, you’re a sucker—one born every minute in cub land.
Big difference between value of the team, and cash flow.
They are not the same, the value of the team is MUTE>
I’m sure you meant to say MOOT, but your point isn’t valid. The cubs have limited their spending due to the luxury tax. Cash flow has nothing to do with it.
I played Little League from age 5-15. A home run over the fence to me is like a 300+ yard drive, a kickflip, or a long tube ride. It’s being equal with the best, if only for a fleeting moment. As for “so amd so signed the 17th largest contract as well as the #2 contract among Shortstops” dude – hat is really nerdy. Since you are hurling personal insults Id like to add another interesting fact about me is I was a victim of bullying growing up. Finally, when I was older, I fought back. I’ve KO’d three people. Watching some menace try to stand up, get to one knee, and then taking notice of his eyes rolling back as he goes down again is better than getting laid by a hot stripper. I’ve done that too. I wonder if some of you on here have ever done anything like me. I actually haven’t played Fantasy Baseball but I’m not messing with you guys. Two queations: Have you ever kissed a girl? and How long will the current Padre Dynasty last? #1 Free Agent 2 years in a row, 20-25 1st round picks in thesyatem, if you count international top 30 as a first round, and already in 1st place. 4/8 of the lineup is set for at least 5 years which leads to prospects being traded for more Stars. Hate to break it to you guys but the Padres and I are just getting started.
lol idk what im reading but its a masterpiece
So, the truth is coming out. You hit your HRs in little league?
Watch it with those strippers. You may be squeezing green pus out of your wee-wee soon.
Alex does your mommy know youre playing on the computer with adults?
Laid by a hot stripper? Disgusting.
You should try CBD oil it can help with siezures
Well, I’ve never made it with a “hot stripper” but I did date an ex-stripper for a half dozen years. Does that count? As a hardcore feminist when I met her, she wasn’t proud of her work, but non judgmental about the life choices we sometimes have to make. It paid her bills for a number of years.
And that Padres dynasty? It will finally end when we have the first colony on Mars. Since that will never happen, I don’t think the Padres dynasty will ever end. And when Los Angeles, San Francisco, Anaheim, and Oakland fall into the sea, San Diego will finally become that major market team (after a very long economic depression from all of CA’s wealth falling into the ocean).
I hope my ridiculous post can help inspire people to … uh … I’m not sure what — inspire people not to do kickflips when they’re wasted. You’ll break your wrist!
Come on people — give Alex a thumbs up! He poured his heart out for y’all and was only a little insulting.
Well…you’ve inspired me, though I cut out the kickflips whilst wasted in 2003, so you can’t take credit for that.
If someone’s getting laid by a stripper (presumably as a part of her paid duties), then she’s not just a stripper. Just sayin’.
this needs to be a copypasta.
The market is correcting and both sides need to see it and act accordingly. Greed driven agents like Boras are going to get some and miss out on others.
The real issue is going to come when the expected slow down of the USA economy hits and advertising revenues and tickets sales and cable subscription decrease and may even fall through the floor. Teams with high AAV long term contracts are going to be in trouble.
Then we’ll see a major correction.
First a disclaimer, I have not read every comment.
With Kimbrel it seems the magic number is 20 million per year and the main issue is length of a contract for him as he approaches 31 years old. He showed some signs of being human last season with Boston.
If he was offered 2 or 3 years at 40 or 60 million ( the magic 20 million a season ) I have a hunch he would sign.
As a Brave fan I think as cheap as they are he would still get a offer like that to come back home.
I blame his agent, the odds of Kimbel being a elite closer 5 years from now is a real gamble. Owners are not stupid…… even in Atlanta, maybe.
i think its on Kimbrel’s best interest to try for something along the lines of Manny’s CWS deal (not in terms of overall or annual money, but as far as less money guarenteed but more incentives. maybe 10 per over 3 years and 10-15 per year in games/saves/rivera/hoffman bonuses would satisfy both parties. i get athletes, especially those over 30, want guarenteed money, but if he can negotiate for some incentives that a closer of his caliber can achieve when healthy, it might pay off. (obviously there is the health concern, but i imagine he’d need to gamble at this point)
I’m really not sure how MLBTR can think we’ve forgotten Kimbrel is unsigned. It’s only talked about several times a week.
also, may i add, taking a team’s 2nd rounder is a silly and restrictive penalty for signing a player. why not just let them keep the pick but bump it down a round, or to the back of the second? the idea is to give the team that lost the player the pick, not to punish those for giving good players money…at least I should hope not.
If he wants 3/50m, that’s pretty reasonable. Half a dozen teams should be interested at that price.
Mets should cut Vargas or better yet with all of the injuries the Yanks have trade Vargas and Frazier for anything from the yanks and sign Keuchel.
I don’t understand how anyone can say this is anyone’s fault other than Kimbrel and his agent. He plays the most volatile position in the sport, he’s on the wrong side of 30, is coming off a relatively poor walk year and an atrocious postseason and has other red flags and he publicly demanded a six year deal. It was proposterous from
“wrong side of 30”
He’s 31, he has at minimum 5-7 elite years left. Stop taking billionaire owners sides over the players.
Some would argue that Kimbrel’s no longer an elite closer at present. The notion that he’ll be elite well into his late 30s is delusional.
Billionaire owners, multi millionaire players. Meanwhile, fans should flock to games and plop down ever increasing fees for tickets, parking, a hot dog and a bottle of water. Solid reasoning. And you’ll probably complain about teacher salaries and the cost of vegetables
I love the game but given the greed of owners and players alike, they’ll never get me to a ballpark again.
The cost of tickets and concessions have nothing to do with player salaries. Teams charge what the market will bear, and most concessions are handled by outside vendors anyway.
If I lived in Atlanta I’d have season tickets.
Take a look around. Nothing is “cheap” or “affordable” anymore.
The pressure will always be kept on the middle class to “keep up”.
If these are the asking prices then the braves better be first in line. No team with a real shot to make the playoffs needs as much bullpen help as the braves do
The PHILLIES current 2019 payroll is somewhere in the low to mid 140 million range. If Kimbrel can be had for 3 years and 42 million, there isn’t any financial reason for them not to sign him. This is the upgrade their bullpen NEEDS!
If Seattle’s hot start is for real (and it probably isn’t) then the area of their team they need the most help in is the bullpen. It would be strange if their rebuilding plan for 2021 contention took a back-seat to a hot two weeks, but it would be good fit.
I don’t think Meter is a good agent, and I don’t think he has his clients’ best interests at heart. His extension for Albies was just terrible for the player – 5 M/year for 9 years? Because he might have been afraid ALbies would jump ship to a bigger agency, as rumored? No other agent would have advised for Albies to sign that contract, and maybe Meter did and Albies signed anyway because that’s still life-changing money.
But with Kimbrel; he’s been as good as any one-inning reliever in baseball. Even in his “down” year last season, he struck out three times as many batters as he allowed hits to. But he is 30, he had a shaky postseason, and smart teams are building bullpens out of castoffs these days anyway. Look at the Padres bullpen for exhibit A, or even the Royals bullpen in the WS seasons. I would think Kimbrel will get some kind of pillow contract for whatever is left of the season after he signs, and then go back on the market and take some kind of Wade Davis deal. Baseball will have to figure out how to pay its younger players better if teams are going to treat free agents like this, because when the league is making record profits this kind of stuff isn’t going to sit well with the players.
It would help if the MLBPA was being run by an actual labor lawyer.
Strike Four’s talents are being wasted on this forum. He needs to apply for a job as Tony’s advisor.
There’s gotta be more to it than holding out for money. Is Kimbrel some kind of liability? Total arsehole no one wants to be around?