Giants leadership will consider some alterations to the dimensions of their spacious home park, Andrew Baggarly and Eno Sarris of The Athletic report in an exhaustive look at the matter (subscription required). Members of the ownership group posed the question of whether the right-field fences should be moved in and whether the bullpens should be moved to new president of baseball ops Farhan Zaidi in Spring Training; the first-year baseball ops leader agreed that it was at least worth exploring. Manager Bruce Bochy suggested to Baggarly that “Triples Alley” in right field would make an ideal spot for the bullpens to be relocated. “Personally, I feel if you hit a ball 400 feet, it should be a home run,” said the skipper. “So yeah, I think we should all be open minded to making a change.” Zaidi, meanwhile, stressed that the discussion is in its nascent stages. While he’s appreciative of the manner in which park-specific idiosyncrasies can impact roster construction, Zaidi also spoke of not “becoming so idiosyncratic that you become an outlier” that proves disadvantageous. Baggarly and Sarris explore just how much of an outlier the newly renamed stadium has become and also interview several players about the park’s dimensions.
More out of San Francisco…
- Top prospect Joey Bart, the No. 2 overall pick in last year’s draft, will miss the next four to six weeks of action due to a fractured left hand, Bochy announced to reporters Tuesday (link via Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area). The injury occurred Monday when the highly touted young catcher was hit by a pitch. Broadcaster Joe Ritzo, who covers the Giants’ affiliate in San Jose where Bart was injured, tweets that farm director Kyle Haines suggested that the team could send Bart to the Arizona Fall League after the 2019 season as a means of making up for some of the plate appearances he’ll miss while he’s down with the injury. The 22-year-old Bart hit .298/.369/.613 in 203 plate appearances for the Giants’ Low-A affiliate in 2018 and was off to a .270/.341/.541 start through 10 games and 41 plate appearances in 2019.
- Over the weekend, Kerry Crowley of the San Jose Mercury News took a look at Zaidi’s frequent shuffling on the fringes of the 40-man roster, noting that since being hired to his new post, the former Dodgers GM has made 11 trades, six waiver claims and designated 12 players for assignment. It’s old hat for fans who’ve followed the Dodgers tireless roster machinations over the years, but many Giants fans were taken aback by the deluge of roster moves — particularly with so many transactions involving unfamiliar names. “This was kind of the (roster) configuration we’ve been looking for for awhile so hopefully these guys can settle into their roles,” Zaidi told Crowley, referencing the recent additions of Kevin Pillar and Tyler Austin. Zaidi goes on to discuss that despite what some onlookers may think, the decision to cut ties with even fringe roster players is never made lightly and is never an easy one.
No
With tectonic shifting they can have the RF brick wall moved in just in time for the 3683 season.
Honestly think this is very funny +1
Haha that’s a good one
lmao
Around the same time their pricy contracts will come off the books.
I don’t have a problem with getting rid of triples alley, but if they want to leave the dimensions as is and still get rid of the on-field bullpen mounds they can just get rid of the stupid organic garden behind the wall in center and put the mounds out there.
Best comment I’ve seen all day. Only in SF
Not “only in SF”. A number of ballparks, including Fenway planted gardens over the last couple of years. If anything, the Giants were late to the game.
Years ago it was some pitching coach planting tomatoes in the bullpen.
Nothing stupid about it. It is actually a popular seating area and a working garden. Chefs from the nearby restaurants use the veggies grown there in the food they make. It’s also an educational garden where school children are brought in to learn about healthy cooking and eating. bamco.com/giants-garden/
And it has no business being inside a baseball stadium. The two are entirely unrelated.
What? It’s a leisure space, where people sit, eat, and drink a beer and watch or listen to the game, so how is it unrelated? It’s unrelated because there are edible plants involved? There have always been features and amusements that aren’t 100% about baseball. Play areas for kids, places for people to rest, eat, flirt, get drunk, stores to shop for things, artwork, historical and cultural installations. This exists in every stadium, and is a way to accommodate and entertain visitors that aren’t glued to their score cards for every pitch. It’s about the ballpark experience!
How weird that people are so sensitive about plants.
Why not put them in Alameda?
Are you kidding? That’s a massive money-maker for the Giants. They aren’t about to get rid of it. Plus, Dude, this is San Francisco, the culinary epicenter of American cuisine: the Garden is a perfect feature for the times and the town. I really can’t see how its existence is in any way affecting your ability to enjoy a ballgame. Nobody’s pointing a gun at your head an making you spend money there. And, as a season ticket holder who attends 45-50 games a year, I can assure you, it doesn’t affect the action on the field.
It seems to me you are overly attached to said gardens. His comment was reasonable. Yours is not.
agreed. I’ve never seen someone so worried about a tiny asss garden in the middle of a stadium. The OP didn’t exactly say it bothered him just that it was “stupid” and the bullpens should be there instead. The garden is all for show anyway. I tend to agree that they aren’t going to get rid of it but cmon it’s a tiny organic garden in a billion dollar stadium. It wouldn’t be the end of the world if it wasn’t there
Overly attached to gardens? It seems you’re overly attached to snark.
It’s not just a garden, it supplies organic produce that is used right there in the park. But more importantly that space is also used for valuable concession stands. What would be stupid is to give up that concession space, when there is more than enough space in triples alley that wouldn’t cut in to revenue, like using the garden space would.
Yeah that Rice a Roni is epic.
Too funny!!
sounds like the only reasonable place for the bullpen is McCovey Cove. I’m not sure how the logistics would work, but it would make for some interesting reliever entrances.
Every relief pitcher would have to be a submariner, I guess.
San Francisco is also the epicenter of pooping in the streets.
And the epicenter of finding needles in public parks.
Like no other town or city has public urination, drunkenness or sexual intercourse in their streets.
A garden is a good community relations mechanism to have. I guess more beer stands instead so you can keep your mundane life interesting?
I’ve pinched a loaf on the streets of San Francisco b4.
that’s actually a really good idea I don’t know why no one else has said that
What’s wrong with organic gardens?
They don’t buy tickets?
You don’t make friends with salad
Obviously, your’re using the wrong croutons.
Too many GMOs
Been saying the same thing for years. That center field section is perfect for a two level bullpen (home and away).
organic garden? for real?
That sucks for Bart he needs to get more experience and make his way to the majors because Buster Posey is on his downward slide in his career, he looks absolutely terrible at the plate, slow sluggish weak swing, grounding into DPs, No power what so ever behind it. He’s not even that old either. Something needs to give, he needs to tighten the F-up!!
You can’t rush experience.
Posey needed to be moved to 1B while catching a couple times a week. The Brandon Belt contract prevents it.
Posey has been playing 1st for a few years now. Belt moves to left field.
Except hes the best defensive catcher in the majors… Already averaging 42 defensive runs saved for the year. If he had been in every game I’m sure he would be leading all the other Catcher stats, as well.. His bat will come around. Hes a .305/.373/.836 lifetime hitter and we are only 18 games in…
I’m well aware of how good Posey is behind the plate. It’s the durability factor as he continues to age. You want him behind the plate as much as possible but want him in the lineup as much as possible.
As for Belt playing LF, Vince….well, if he was a good defensive LF’der he would play there more often. He does not.
Busty Poser has not hit a home run since June 2018
Buster Posey can’t even hit a hr during bp, warning track pop is all he’s working with these days. His swing is about as slow as Chris Davis. I be surprised if he finished the year with a .BA above .250, and a .OPS above .675. Giants fans will see the biggest fall off of a player in quite some time. They need to kick Grandpa Kratz to the curb, call back up Garcia and let Bart get his minor league experience this year, call him up in September, and then 2020 Bart takes over Lead catcher duties, Garcia back-up and let Posey take over Bochys roll as new Head coach 🙂
Too bad by the time they change the dimensions, Brandon Belt won’t be on the team. He’d be a big supporter.
I personally like the big park but have zero problem with them making adjustments.
There’s a lot of positives to be had from such a move.
1. Better entertainment for a wider range of fans who want to see more offense and more home runs.
2. Safer for players with the bullpens being off the playing field.
3. Easier for SF to attract FA hitting talent because we can see that it;’s not like pitchers are giving them a discount to pitch in SF but they have to overpay for hitters (if they can get them).
Besides, SF might even be able to squeeze in a few more seats and get more revenue, not like they need it.
I would argue a triple is way more exciting than a homer.
…And rare. Watching guys go home to third and how the defense executes the play is fascinating. Definitely more exciting.
Yep, and triples are becoming much more rare in current baseball. Because the value of being on third is only a tiny bit more marginal than being on second in a TTO game. But I love watching a triple much more than a homer, for the most part. Triples are at a level that hasn’t been seen since the 40s/50s. Defensive shifting has something to do with it, of course, and smaller parks have a lot to do with it, too. So it would be a shame to see one of the parks with a clear path to a triple shut down that alley.
I agree with you. Teams pinch that gap to reduce the occurrence. But I figured out that what I like the average fan doesn’t care about.
Only problem is that despite having a “triples alley” Oracle park is not a huge triples park. It’s maybe a top 10. But since it opened it has only had the most triples once, and finished 2nd twice, But it also ranked as low as 22nd and 20th. It was 4th last season, but only 13th in 2017. Coors Field, and Globe life in Arlington have far more triples than Oracle.
Plus, the top 3 hitters for triples last season was Alen Hanson, Evan Longoria, and Gregor Blanco who had 12 of the team’s 30 triples. 7 of those were at Oracle, and 5 were hit on the road. I doubt putting the bullpens in triple alley will have that big an impact.
there is a middle ground though- pretty easy one. Move the bullpens and draw a line 3/4 the way up the bricks. personally if I were a hitter that would be the most frustrating thing – hitting one off the bricks that would be a homer in any other park but ends up with getting a single or thrown out @ 1st.
Tad2b13,part of the problem is there are only a couple of guys on the team capable of hitting it where it needs to be hit and also have the speed to get to 3rd.
there are only guys that might not be able to – pablo, posey and kratz – everyone else would have no problem
“…there are only a couple of guys…capable of hitting…and also have the speed to get to 3rd.”
That’s true now, but that hasn’t always been the case. That’s why I went all the way back to when the park opened. Oracle just isn’t the triples park that several other parks are no matter who’s on the roster. “Triples alley” is just a cute nickname that does not reflect reality.
I think his comment was spot on. You hit a ball 400 feet it should be gone. I think you have to grandfather in places like Fenway but going forward all stadiums dimensions should fall within a certain standard range. No more stadiums that sway to far in favor of hitter or pitcher or left hander vs right hander. I don’t know how the Giants roster is constructed this isn’t aimed towards them but it’s just too easy to create a big advantage for the home team. Too easy to have a short porch in right and greatly favor signing big time left handed hitters. Or have small dimensions and go after ground ball pitchers. The visiting team plays way to many games in a completely different type park and can’t match up well in a park like that. Might be neat but doesn’t seem right to be able to manipulate the game in that way. No more crap like the ramp and foul poles Houston started off having in dead center either. That was crap
So you’re suggesting going back to the cookie cutter ballparks that the league just replaced? Do they need to be astroturf as well?
Yeah, the 70s ballparks were awful. Baseball is the only sport in which the playing environment changes in each city, and that’s a feature, not a bug.
In soccer, the dimensions of the playing pitch can vary between different stadiums and the tactics that teams employ can be different depending on how how tight the spaces are on the field. The differences are not quite as dramatic as they can be in baseball.
Thanks! I did not know that.
@seth3120. I think your ideas are founded in fairness, but it’s my understanding that nobody can really tell how a ballpark is going to play until it’s actually constructed. SF management have said a few times in interviews that when they built SF’s ballpark they thought that balls were going to be flying out of the park into the bay, and it just didn’t happen.
Common FZ, the ballpark is already so idiotsyncractic (not a typo) it’s a joke. I’ve always felt that’s where the bullpens should be. Don’t be a RICHARD FZ, at least consider it. And The Rockies should move their fences in too. Too many fly outs fall in for hits.
Are you kidding? Moving in the fences at Coors? Those “fly balls” falling in for hits will morph into homeruns out of the stadium if they do that.
Idiosyncratic. It WAS a typo.
Even if you were trying to be clever by combining the words “idiot” and “idiosyncratic” into your new word, you still added an extra C. So yes, it is a typo.
No excuse for building a brand new stadium and then having the BP’s being on the field of play, rather than behind the OF wall. Having them in foul territory makes them an injury risk for players, not to mention a huge eyesore.
However designed Weak Beer field is an idiot!
In 20 years in that stadium, the Giants have been to the playoffs seven times, been to four World Series and won three championships (should have won four, but that’s another story). I don’t think they need to mess with the dimensions at all.
You could theoretically win a championship with an 800 foot playing field. I don’t think disproves any theory. I tend to like oddities in ballparks and would like to keep some parks the way they are. Not every game needs to be a 10 run slugfest.
Agree in general – you need to keep triples alley but I would lower the line in right from the metal rooftop to about 3/4 the way up and move the pens – too many guys get hurt or almost do tripping over the mounds
This might take a few years to even consider. And Larry Baer still on leave will have a say. . .
My opinion is wait till proper roster construction is underway with Farhan. More right handed hitters. And moving and shaking.
They won 3 rings here. With cold dead weather that neutralizes hitters in October. Even our own yes. But I’d like to see what the next group of players can do, Before any major changes occur.
The pitching Is the outlier. And we have won with pitching. !!!
not just farhan but the new manager and mlb rule changes – especially if they end up putting the DH in – (which I am not a fan of)
Oracle, alongside maybe Target Field, is the last true pitchers park. Would hate to see it be changed, games are always a little bit different when played in Oracle. Runs are mostly produced by rallying hits rather than swinging for the fences, always a refreshing change when my team goes to play there.
“…and whether the bullpens should be moved to new president of baseball ops Farhan Zaidi…”
Hahaha, what???
Edit: I understand what it was saying but it got muddled in that paragraph-long sentence
How about this…stop changing things for the sake of change.
Translation:
“In our marketing focus groups designed to find out what casual and non-baseball fans enjoy, we are exploring the possibility of bringing in the fences because they want to see homeruns. Although little to no evidence suggests homeruns means more fans watching at home, we only care about those with no knowledge about the great game of baseball.
Also, a few of our position players have complained about the fences being too far.”
Memo to San Fran: there is something unique about your stadium. No reason to take that away.
You forgot the MLB manifesto which states that fans want more scoring, but a shorter game time. If you move bullpens behind the fence, every pitching change will add 27 seconds to the precious game time
Still faster than taking the BART, also think of the Giants fitting a golf cart to look like a trolley car that brings the players to the mound….
Sorry. I thought to take excerpts rather than type the full manifesto.
It does seem odd that MLB seems to be trying to increase offense while also shortening the time of games. Those are at odds, obviously.
@stymeedone you actually bring up a good point. Cricket has seen a huge change in the way it’s played.
Cricket (Test Matches) last 5 days. Then they introduced a “One Day” match that lasts something like 8 hours. Test Matches often see small numbers of fans and some days a far from a sellout. One day matches have a greater attendance but can still be poorly attended, especially the less interesting teams.
So… cricket introduced a version of the game they call “20-20”. It lasts about three hours and see’s huge, fast scoring. Traditionalists HATED the idea, many still hate it but even lower level games see HUGE attendance.
My point is that if baseball doesn’t make incremental changes to increase interest and attendance it will eventually have to do something drastic like cricket did and I’m not sure I want to see that.
If MLB did more to cater to mound aces that would help pace of play, viewership and attendance. Traditionally, the ace “big ticket” pitcher is must-see television. They are the ones boosting ratings and baseball is shying away from that.
I’m not really sure how baseball could do that, besides dictating strategies to teams, which feels kind of icky, right?
Depends on the tolerance of the average fan; people have varying degrees of strong feelings toward certain rule changes vs. others. I remember playing middle infield and having runners try to drive me into leftfield. That doesn’t happen anymore, and that leaves me icky because the overall footwork of some middle infielders is lazy and sloppy thanks to the rules.
So how do we cater to the pitcher? For starters, lift the mound back up to 1967 levels. Then have a meeting with the umpires before next season and let them know they need to start calling strikes based on the letter of the law, ie. be more consistent between the belt and letters. I would also ban arm guard (not hand, face or shin guards) to alleviate the fearless plate-crowding.
This doesn’t necessarily “cater” to pitchers, per say. Just random thoughts with many detractors.
It seems that MLB has been implementing rules that hurt the pitcher’s dominance for over 50 years now, so I like where you are going with this. I agree that they should raise the mound and redefine and enforce the strike zone. I hate watching a game where the strike zone shrinks as the game goes on or even is slightly different due to how the pitcher’s movement might even fool an umpire. I believe that being fixed would benefit not only the pitcher, but the hitter, who doesn’t have to guess what a strike is from one at bat to the next. I also concede that teams have reports on each umpire though, but I like what you are suggesting.
^Solid points. I’ll also add that umps used to give a little off the plate on both sides, especially for the command pitchers like Glavine, Maddux and a hybrid like Pedro Martinez. Doesn’t seem to happen anymore.
the best way to speed up the game is to eliminate warm up pitches and infield practice between innings. the players don’t need it. 30 seconds max for the switch.
also, keep the batter in the batters box.
pitch, pitch, swing, swing = 2 hour games
I am one that feels that you shouldn’t change Oracle Park’s dimensions because I love the look and design of it, but I also feel that it’s for the best if they move the bullpens for better safety of the players. I have always thought that they should go where the organic garden and restaurant is, but I doubt that will happen since it’s become something in the community. I could see triples alley being a win win of sorts if it were to become the new landing spot for the bullpens, as well as adding more offense…..for both the Giants and opposing clubs lol. I just like it how it is, but I only see a dozen games a year there.
As for building the team to fit the deminsions, I thought that’s what they did in the past and now it seems that we got away from it and became too LHH, I think a lot of the power issues at home for the Giants has more to do with the talent than the park. We need to develop better, draft better and assess our squad better, which I feel Zaidi will do.
I really hope that Bart has a speedy recovery and goes to AFL to get more at bats. He has really been looking good in SJ and has shown that his bat is about MLB ready. He still needs to get more reps and especially behind the plate. I think Bart learning behind Posey, as Buster transitions to 1B will be the right move.
No field should ever have on the field bullpens in this day and age. Get rid of them all!!
Best of luck to Tyler Austin. Never forget the day Judge n Austin went back to back hitting home runs in their first MLB at bats
I don’t remember seeing any comments about ballpark dimension issues while they were winning championships. Field a quality team and nobody cares about triples alley.
Please hold all calls….we have a winner……
Hahahaha
I’ve been in this belief as a fan. It has more to do with the team that’s been constructed and has aged that’s made the demensions seem difficult, but look at opposing clubs that have no issues,. I am not saying that the ballpark doesn’t suppress some power numbers, but more youth and RHH talent to balance the lineup would change the fortunes of the Giants at Oracle instead of blaming the park. I only want to see a change due to moving the bullpens for better safety of the players.
Damn. I’m excited to see how Bart turns out. Was hoping to see him in the show this year
Interesting how dimensions suddenly become a topic. Coincidentally, we’ve begun our fourth consecutive year of scraping the bottom of the offensive rankings. Maybe Zaidi is driving this discussion but we’ve long been a franchise built around pitching and the ballpark was designed to support that same philosophy.
Why not build a team that actually fits your stadium and use it as a competitive advantage for half your games? Stop signing and trading for slow 40 year olds.
They don’t need to move the fences in, they just need a new lineup with hitters that can hit and hit for power.. Panik/Longoria/Crawford/Posey/duggar/parra would have the same stats if the field was closer, or playing on a different team. They just need to re vamp the entire line-up, it’s pathetic!
Belt hit a ball the other night that he thought was a homer. Players know that feeling when they hit the ball on the sweet spot that it’s gone. It hit the wall and he ended up with a double. It’s got to be discouraging for the players when that happens, but it’s what they signed up for so can’t really argue.
There are two different issues at play here. First, opposing players don’t seem to have problems knocking the ball out of Oracle Park. Get better hitters.
Second, for safety reasons the bullpens should never have been on the playing field. Either stash them in the garden area behind CF, or then move the fences to accommodate the bullpens, which then also makes it easier for Zaidi to find hitters.
That’s why I think change is coming regardless.
“…opposing players don’t seem to have problems knocking the ball out of Oracle Park.”
Not true. Over the last 5 seasons Oracle was 29th, 30th, 30th, 30th and 30th for HRs. Clearly all teams are not having success hitting HRs there.
I’m not sure that really proves your point since those numbers include Giants hitters as well… You’d have to look at away hitter’s home runs at all parks to prove the point you’re attempting to prove.
Realistically, I think any real baseball fan knows that both the team and ballpark have been pitching centered.
HOWEVER
This isn’t a bad conversation to have because 1) the powers that be have decided that offense/action is what will draw non baseball fans into being baseball fans; 2) that pace-of-play and game length need to be altered; 3) looking back at number 1, it’s is going to be pitching that gets the short end of the stick, whether is a 3 ball walk, or, once two strikes any foul counts as a ball excepting that it cannot create an out, just like strikes do now, or the mound movements, whatever.
MLB’s intentions have been made pretty clear, offense is the future, and aspects on the pitcher side will be eroded in the name of “progress”
1 kills any chance of 2 happening. Powers that be are wrong on this. Viewership and paid attendance always improves with the aces on the mound.
That said, I do agree with your assessment.
Pitchers should be taken more care of because of the alarming rise of arm injuries and overall decline in durability. Anyone can respect a hitter earning it rather than being catered to. I might be wrong here….
A double decker bullpen in center wouldn’t work.. it effects the hitters eye. The wall in right is 309 and fitting a full bullpen into right center seems unlikely. I dont really know how they can fit them in other than putting them in left or reconstructing the wall in right and doing it that way. I dont really hope they do though. As amazing as the park is the game is changing and the giants hurt themselves by keeping it this way. It’s hard to attract free agents and for players to keep up in HR races with it the way it is. All of it affects player morale and the view of the team in the public eye. Everyone’s been complaining for years that the giants dont have a power guy that can hit 30+ a year and if they fix this issue it makes it a lot easier to find that guy. Especially with guys like belt, and the younger guys like Duggar, and shaw.. 421 to the wall is ridiculous and though something that makes the park unique I dont believe it will take away from its beauty.. it still will have a nice brick facade and the beautiful bay behind it.. time to move the fence in.
Can they move the fence in just for the bottom half of each inning?