The Rays will need to squeeze every last ounce of value out of their existing roster and payroll if they are to make a real bid for the postseason in an incredibly stratified American League. Here’s the latest, with all links to the reporting of Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times:
- With some payroll space evidently still available, the Rays have “maintained regular contact” with legendary reliever Craig Kimbrel, Topkin tweets. A successful pursuit remains “unlikely,” per the report. Surely the Rays would only consider Kimbrel on a short-term deal, as the organization has always been careful not to tie up too much future payroll. Whether Kimbrel will ultimately settle for a one or two-year pact — and, if so, what will drive his decisionmaking — isn’t yet evident.
- Two important young Tampa Bay hurlers are making progress in their efforts to return from Tommy John procedures, Topkin further reports (Twitter links). Brent Honeywell and Jose De Leon each threw against live hitters for the first time. It was only 15 pitches apiece, but that’s still a good sign that both of these well-regarded young hurlers are coming along. The Rays will likely continue to take things slow, but surely also entertain visions of either or both making an impact as a mid-season call-up.
- Topkin also looks in at Rays center fielder Kevin Kiermaier, whom the team badly needs to turn in a healthy and productive campaign. Soon to turn 29, the rangy outfielder is coming off of a disappointing season at the plate in which he slashed just .217/.282/.370. Kiermaier has averaged barely more than 400 plate appearances annually over the past three years due to a variety of injuries. The maladies have tended to come about in the course of Kiermaier’s hard-charging play, though it doesn’t seem as if the team thinks there’s much to be gained from trying to rein him in. “It’s probably best for us to stay out of the way and keep our fingers crossed that none of the freak things happen,” says skipper Kevin Cash.
How about a two-year deal that pays him a record AAV for a reliever in year 1 and peanuts in year 2 and an opt-out after year 1?
So…a one year deal.
The thinking is that it will ultimately be a one-year deal but Kimbrel will have the player option for a second year as a safety net in case he completely tanks in 2019.
I don’t think any baseball fan wouldn’t want this guy on their favorite team at the right price. This is a great guy who comes with no baggage. He makes any team better. Future HOF.
I’m all for hyperbole, but calling Kimbrel “legendary” is a bit too much.
Agreed.
Actually Kimbrel is on a HOF career pace. In my book that would be legendary.
He had 333 saves before age 30..Mo only had 165…Thats legendary
and he’ll break down faster than Mo. It’s a bit of a stretch to use the term.
Mo came up late and threw mainly one pitch that he didn’t rely on power to throw. That is a dumb comparison. Johnathan Papelbon had more saves than Mo by age 30. I guess that means he must be at 800 saves by now.
Papelbon’s secondary pitch, his splitter wasn’t nearly as lethal as kimbral’s knuckle curve. I believe even if/when Kimbrel loses 3-4 ticks off of his FB that he will still be an effective closer. Papelbon wasn’t able to cope nearly as well after losing his FB and on top of that? His splitter never had the impact of Kimbrell’s curve.
The biggest problem ahead for kimbrell is in his head of not being able to function in a non closer role. He just cannot go out there and post a clean inning if it’s not a close game and the 9th inning.
Based on what? he has no injury history- at least nothing of significance. He’s never had elbow or shoulder trouble, and he’s a one inning reliever. He throws like 12-15 pitches/game over like 65 appearances. Plenty left in the tank.
He has more saves by 30 than any other reliever ever.
But still plenty of time to go downhill. Not saying he isn’t on a HOF trajectory or that he hasn’t had a dominant career, but he still has plenty of time for it to go south.
Hall of famers dominate their generation. Craig Kimbrel has dominated his generation for 9 years. He is a hall of famer if he retires after this season
Agreed.
I like the writers here quite a bit, but yeah, there’s a difference between “Craig Kimbrel, elite closer, future HOFer” and “Craig Kimbrel, legendary closer.”
Kimbrel still has time to write his own legend, of course—but he’s not yet achieved legendary status.
Also, I want the Dodgers to sign him. *sigh*
I get the distinction here, but I think he’s already reached that status. Even if he falls apart completely, he’ll have had a stretch of dominance that stands out as extremely special against his peers.
I certainly won’t argue that he has already had the greatest career of any reliever ever. But I think his status as a “legendary reliever” is already established.
Debatable, no doubt.
I don’t understand why everyone is saying he is not a “legendary reliever.” Kimbrel has been top 2/3 relievers in baseball since he debuted, has more than 300 saves, and has a World Series ring. What out of those doesn’t make him legendary? A “mediocre” second half of 2018? Get real people.. kimbrel has been utterly dominant for essentially a decade. Completely agree with Jeff Todd.
He’s put up legendary stats over about 9 years. time will tell, but I don’t think he’s a “legendary” player in most people’s eyes, YET. I think That status is earned over a longer period of time.
Oh how I agree…maybe coulda took that Kelly money to use on Kimbrel.Not quite Been the offseason us LA fans wanted at all.Jesus,I hope Honeycutt can work his magic w Kelly.Im thinking that DeLeon for The Invisible Man Logan Forsythe trade is gonna start stinging pretty damn soon.I wonder if someone brought a goat to Dodger Stadium 30 yrs ago at this point.
I don’t use hyperbole. “Legendary reliever.” Among relievers, he’s the all-time ERA leader with at least 500 IP and already top-15 all-time in fWAR at 30 years of age.
330 saves, 1.91 career era, not even 30, I’d say legendary isn’t a stretch
Legendary is Mariano Rivera, NOT Kimbrel.
Can’t we have more than one legend?
But you’re right.
…….Or Rollie Fingers,Goose Gossage etc.Kimbrel has ways to go to snif those HOF’s
Numbers through age 30:
Rollie Fingers: 2.92 ERA, 2.95 FIP, 1.143 WHIP, 171 saves,
Goose Gossage: 2.90 ERA, 3.06 FIP, 1.218 WHIP, 184 saves
Craig Kimbrel: 1.91 ERA, 1.96 FIP, .920 WHIP, 333 saves
and what if he tears his shoulder up this year and is crappy after? Legendary is a long-term identifier. Potentially legendary is more fitting.
Then he dominated his generation for 9 years and won a world series… Hall of fame
What is the difference in innings pitched through age 30?
He might not have as many innings pitched as Gossage or Fingers, but Gossage and Fingers started their career’s out as starters, and worked for almost or more than 100 innings every season they were a relief pitcher. It’s harder to compare players using innings pitched from different eras.
Still HOF
Even if he never pitches well again, he’s already hit some significant milestones.
How about a non – Yankee… Trevor Hoffman
Legendary ? LMAOOOOO
Legendary reliever Houston Street.
Oh dear.
If he’s legen-dary then Huston Street is just mediocre.
Legendary? Gossage, Fingers.
legendary craig kimbrel??
heard of kimbrel but never seen kimbrel pitch?
lmao I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one taken aback by “legendary”.
Kimbrel was never even a Lone Ranger
Questions for Rays fans,
Any thought of B. Lowe passing Kiermaier on the organizations hierarchy? I know that Lowe is a LF/2B but is younger, cheaper and healthier.
Could see Rays moving on from Kiermaier.
KK is the best defensive centerfielder in MLB .and Rays fans look forward to a full year of circus act catches, consistant spray hitting,excellent speed and a great arm..Next to replace in CF is probably Austin Meadows, B. Lowe is the 4th outfielder and the Rays are stacked in the minors with more. So if the Ray’s want to move on from keirmaier they can but he’s one of the faces of the franchise presently.
Wow…The Best Centerfielder in MLB is a bit of a stretch ….he’s certainly good but the best sounds like a homer comment. And to say his “spray hitting” basically means he’s very limited in his power and certainly isn’t a gap hitter with his record of extra base hits.
He hasn’t had a full year in the majors since 2015…so what tells you this year is going to be different?
He said best defensive center fielder, not best overall. And by any metric he absolutely is the best defensive center fielder in the big leagues.
I guess you discount the fact that he can’t stay on the field for a full season….and I think there are other centerfielders and teams that would certainly take “best defensive centerfielder” to task…..you can stick your metrics and let your eyes tell you the truth HOMER!
The myth of Kiermeyer is well spoken in Tampa Bay but not elsewhere…..I’d take Bradley (Kiermeyer couldn’t carry his Jock) and Hicks on my team over this guy every day and think you would find more fans that agree than disagree as long as you stay away from Rays homers!
Lol ok throw out the all the metrics and use the eyeball test… sounds like you really know what you are talking about.
Considering kk has some years and money left on the deal I would say if he doesn’t perform this year he is in danger or being dead money for a team with a small payroll as was Longoria. He’s gotta perform this year
All Rays TV hype, not a chance they pay kimbrel’s $s. They have 3 of the youngest 100mph relief arms in baseball! All of them closed some games last year…Kimbrel seems to be redundant and requires a 2nd round pick compensation.
You can’t have too many good pitchers. Here are Joey Lucchesi’s (Padres) numbers last year… 130 innings, 4.08 ERA, 145Ks, 1.292 WHIP, 94 ERA+; Very average numbers
Here’s what happens if you added one year of Kimbrel’s 162 game average from his previous 9 years to Joey Lucchesi’s numbers…
197 innings, 3.33 ERA, 241Ks, 1.19 WHIP; Staff ace numbers
I realize that I’m basically just saying relievers are worth WAR too. And I know that a Kimbrel/Lucchesi combination takes up two roster spots rather than one. But my point is, you can’t have too many dominant relievers, especially on a team that utilizes an opener strategy.
Just arbitrarily adding a relievers numbers onto a starters will tell you absolutely nothing. Just fyi
Kimbrel should take a single year deal with a high value. He’s risking injury or bad performance if he keeps holding out and eventually starts the season without a spring training. Ask Greg Holland.
He’s also risking a ton of money if the one year he continues to decline like he was. He’s still good but his stats look pretty good right now so if you hold out it’s a risk but not as risky as a one year deal in the decline
Kimbrell should sign a one year deal with the Rays, just to be able to stick it to the Red Sox for not offering him a contract.
Because “sticking it to” a mild division rival is what he’s waited this whole offseason for the chance to do!
Lmao “legendary” kimbrel
Kimbrel had a down year by his standards in 2018, but for his career, he strikes out 14.7 batters per 9 innings with two seasons over 16 and twice with a K/BB ratio of 8.29 and 9. He also has allowed .6 HR/9 and 4.8 Hits/9 for his career. Those are certainly remarkable numbers compiled over 9 years, 8 full ones. Last year he only struck out 13.9/9, the 4th time he was under 14, so while it was a down year (primarily because his BB numbers were higher than ever), he still was hard to hit (4.5/9) and in the past he recovered from such “poor” K numbers. I don’t think “legendary” is so undeserving.
Came here for a good read. Read 32 comments arguing legendary.
as much as they are correct about calling him legendary now, Jeff’s line of reasoning is not terrible in that he is on a legendary pace.
I dont believe for a second that the Rays dont have the money to pay for a guy like Kimbrel if they wanted. The Rays, Pirates, and Twins are a bunch of jokes that would rather keep making the money their making for another losing season.
ANY team should have about a 100M Salary Floor (in this year’s dollars). Add that much to the Rays, and they can contend.
If they want to……but I doubt they do. They’ll make more watching some guys regress, other “iffy” types have poor years, and sell off on July 31 to start another “build for the future”.
I was just going to post the same thing. Just disgusting their payroll is just south of $52 mil with 7 other teams under $100 mil also. If they can’t absorb that much payroll, they should not have a team. These billionaire owners need to step up spend. $100 mil is absolutely reasonable.
You do realize you’re complaining a major league sports team doesn’t have a 100 million dollar payroll. That is absolutely ridiculous you expect a team to pay human beings to play a game more money or else they’re absurd. The rays are trying to win with a low payroll because you will have to be blind to the fact that sports are a business at the end of the day and why do we own things or work? To make money. Their team is very competitive the way it is and our revenue is much less than teams so how do you expect us to put the same money out. Use your brain
There is more money in winning than in losing. No one does business with you if your product sucks. Thats why no one goes to the games. Traffic sucks, sure, but traffic sucks in NYC and LA too and they pack the house. Tampa isnt the best market for sports but when their teams have success people show up in droves. Look at the Lightning.
But you said it right, theyre there to make money. Theyre fine with the money they make losing, but thats a shame. The players and coaches are trying to win and they put up a good underdog fight last year. The FO, however, doesnt care about winning. Its competitive but its not enough. What do you do when its not enough? Spend. Its not like the Rays are at $200MM or $150MM… or $100MM…. or $75MM. Theyre at $50MM. In todays league, you will never win with a $50MM payroll. The Rays are in an extremely good position to win 90 games at that payroll, imagine if they spent $25-50MM dollars this offseason. They would be able to duke it out with the best of them. But no, the Rays fans get Charlie Morton and thats the offseason.
Don’t the Rays have the wealthiest owner in MLB? Am I remembering that correctly? It’s inexcusable for any small market team to not be looking into the remaining free agents, including Kimbrel.
lol no, not the wealthiest by any stretch. According to moneyinc.com, he is the 19th wealthiest MLB owner.
Thanks for the clarification, Begamin. I should have looked that up myself,
“Only” $800 million net worth. Inexcusable still to have such a paltry payroll in comparison to others. Just a mooch, a mooch with a team with tremendous potential. Rays fans should be outraged.
+leemitt
Its all good. I was actually expecting the Rays owner to be a little farther down the list so its a bit of an eye opening to see their owner be that close to the median.
+luckyh
Agreed. If they had something like the 19th highest payroll then maybe they wouldve put together a 100 win season. They are barely trying to put a complete team on the field. As much as their creative bullpen strategy worked last year, the FO wouldve been completely fine if the team lost 100 games. They didnt do it because they saw something no one else did. They did it because they didnt want to pay for a complete team. I understand theyre gunning for a new stadium but the Rays arent really trying to improve and its depressing.
In my opinion the Rays SHOULDN’T give up a 2nd round pick for one year of Kimbrel. With the way the Rays have to compete, a 2nd round pick has too much value.
Im not saying that they should specifically sign Kimbrel. However, the Rays excuse for not signing anybody is that they dont have the money. I dont believe them. They cut so many corners and are only be able to sign Charlie Morton coming off a 90 win season? The Rays could probably afford to ramp up their payroll by $30-50MM since, you know, they have the lowest payroll out of all team but not the least wealthy owner.
This offseason they said many many times they DO have the money but still aren’t gonna spend unwisely just because they have it. Like I said before they work on a rolling 5 year budget so why spend it on Cruz or Kimbrel for marginal production rather than saving that money to extend a Honeywell or Adames or Snell or anyone else. Would make no sense in their budget to spend the money just because
Thats because for those teams it actually made sense to not spend. The Rays arent the Yankees. The Yankees could maybe use another SP but they didnt feel the need to spend on a lot of the top FAs because their team is already so stacked. The Rays are like swiss cheese. There are so many holes on that roster almost any signing wouldve made sense to try and capitalize on a 90 win season. It wouldnt be just because. It would be to win. The Rays clearly have so much room to improve and the FO doesnt care.
I doubt that signing one or two guys would leave them too strapped to extend their players. I mean, they have a payroll at $50MM every year. I also clearly dont believe their budget should he that low. I dont care what figure the cheapskates that own the Rays decide is their budget, because I think they purposefully set their budget so low (you know, because theyre cheapskates). Theyre clearly cutting corners and not trying to improve the team.
Can you show me a whole in the roster?
Hole*
CF (Keirmaier really isnt that good. Defensively, pretty good. Offensively, not really.)
SP. I mean, they have less than 5 SP, (Honeywell looks promising but is unproven and coming off an injury)
1B
Catcher
Bullpen. They could use more help since they rely so heavily on it with their opener strategy and Romo is gone
3B isnt a hole but could use a buff. Duffy is a good contact hitter and a surprised many with his bounce back season. However, he does get injured a lot and doesnt have much pop. Only posts a OPS+ of 102 despite his high average and OBP. We’ll see if he can find success again in the upcoming season.
RF is a question mark for now. I like Meadows though, we’ll see how he’ll turn out.
Thats 5 holes, 1 question mark. (3B isnt one of the holes or question marks, just an area where that I wouldnt bet the house on. Its either something at risk of becoming a hole though)
Craig Kimbrel will have been remembered as one of the most dominant closers of his era. Perhaps the best closer of his era. He and Chapman will be the debate. Even if Kimbrel never touches the same level of greatness again.
As I’ve noted before, Kuechel makes eminently more sense; stretches the rotation, and they can afford to front-load about 25M and still be around 90M for this year.
And yes, Kimbrel is a HOFer and “legendary”, but I’m a little unsure about his future. Not that Kuechel’s is by any means guaranteed, but soft-tossing lefties just last longer than gas-throwing righties.
This actually makes zero sense because the rays have like 20 starters lol
20 starters? Nah, Romo’s in Miami now….
Rays have TWO starters: Snell (just by osmosis, due to regress) and Morton (please keep the surgeon on standby). After that, it’s a bunch of maybe-s and might be-s and could be-s; the majority of which, as we know, will not work out.
Nowhere near what they need to compete in that division.
I completely forgot about Jose De Leon. I hope he ends up having a good career with the Rays.
Prediction -Kimbrel will get 1 year for some number less than $17.9M so he can regroup and go out next year without being tagged.
A lot of miles on that arm and got real shaky at the end of last year. Would be better to discount a long term deal rather than trying to have a good year and try again. Take the money now even if it is a little less
Can the braves go get kimbrell already
How about a competitive tax that works just like the luxury tax, but starts at sub $100MM payrolls and increases from there.
Squeeze wins out of that Tampa.