An already fascinating season for the Friars just got more interesting. The San Diego organization has made the bold choice to promote top prospect Fernando Tatis Jr. to the MLB roster to open the season, according to Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union-Tribune (via Twitter).
Tatis, widely considered one of the game’s best two or three best overall prospects, only reached his 20th birthday earlier this year. But he has done nothing but produce offensively in the minors and showed himself to be ready on both sides of the ball this spring. At the plate, he slashed .265/.345/.490 in 55 plate appearances.
Perhaps it shouldn’t be seen as particularly bold to make a decision of that kind, but the reality of today’s game is that teams are loath to part with future seasons of team control. By holding a player down for a few weeks before a promotion, it’s possible to get nearly a full season of production without burning a full year of service time — thus delaying that player’s eventual free agency.
As ever, it’s a tough tradeoff. Just a few weeks of action from one player — particularly, an inexperienced youngster — likely won’t mean the difference between sinking or swimming. But the Padres are to be commended for making the decision based upon a straight talent evaluation. If the club is to make a real run at the postseason this year, every boost will matter; even beyond Tatis’s on-field contributions, the go-for-it mentality may help to further motivate an already stoked roster.
Friars GM A.J. Preller ultimately found it irresistible to put a new left side of the infield into action after seeing it all spring. Promising Manny Machado $300MM was quite a bit more radical than promoting Tatis, after all, and the organization has waited for quite some time to see this much talent in that area of the field. The hope will be that those two players handle the vast majority of the reps at those positions for the next six seasons — if not longer.
Eventually, the Pads would surely like to see Luis Urias join this group to round out the infield (along with first baseman Eric Hosmer). It had been expected that Urias would man short to begin the year and shift over to second base in the long run. But with veteran Ian Kinsler locked in at second for the time being, Urias will end up opening the season at Triple-A, according to Dennis Lin of The Athletic (via Twitter).
That’s not to say that Tatis will be the lone youngster in the Padres’ dugout. To the contrary, exciting right-hander Chris Paddack is also slated to head north with the big-league roster, as Lin first tweeted. Youngsters including Francisco Mejia, Franchy Cordero, and Franmil Reyes (#FranDiego?) are expected to do so as well, along with a variety of other hurlers.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Wow surprising
Wild card and the top NL offense…here we come.
Might want to get to a .500 record first.
The NL central laughs at this
Lol baseball experts over here everybody!
hahahahahahahaahhaahaha
In the middle, NOT top.
After spending all that money on Machado I think Preller might be feeling the heat to finally come out of the rebuild.
He isnt feeling any heat
Not sure I agree.
Gotta make good on the promise they definitely made to Manny to actually try & win now. Preller definitely feels the fuego
Of course Preller feeling heat. He’s guaranteed 440 mil last 2 years to two players and he’s 92 games under .500 as GM
I think we fans take the politicing of teams a little for granted. How much say did ownership take in signing Machado?
If ownership is pressing him to come out of the rebuild then they must not have pushed for him to trade the farm away back in 2015 to try and create a winning team. But is that the case?
I think we just dont always know who is pulling the strings behind the scenes.
ROY
Bold move, Cotton.
Wow, dodgeball reference! Nice!
Thanks for answering
my ?
Pepper needs new shorts!
Yes push for that division. Hopefully Machado, Tatis, and Paddack are the pieces that move them in the right direction. I think too many MLB teams have forgot that winning is fun.
No, they just realized it’s totally worth it to tank for a couple seasons to win 90+ games in the future, instead of being mediocre year after year.
Mediocre? We haven’t been mediocre in years.
Yep; there are exactly 8 teams in the AL that are trying to win this year. That’s pathetic. I don’t think the Padres are much more than a .500 team, if everything goes right, but I give them credit for doing the right things – signing Machado, calling up Tatis – these are things all teams should be doing. I’m proud of San Diego for doing the right thing.
6 years from now you are going to be a very proud and equally Tatis-less man.
Meh. We’ll see. If they win a World Seres with him I won’t mind if he leaves in Free Agency. The fact that they aren’t manipulating his service time is a goodwill gesture that might pay off in the long run. See what happened with Mike Trout, who was not manipulated.
“Goodwill” doesn’t win championships and I’m pretty sure Trout’s service time was manipulated.
Oh and starting him in AAA for the first 15 days of the 2019 season would not have made them winning a World Series with him any less likely.
Nope. Mike Trout was promoted directly from double-A because the Angels were in contention. He was over matched but they kept him up. The next season he began in triple-A but was called up because he was absolutely demolishing the league. He’d already gotten the service time needed – and then the Angels signed him to two extensions, the first one buying out his arb years and the second one buying out his free agency.
And no, “goodwill” doesn’t win championships. You know what does? Having the best players on the roster.
So it appears that Trout did finish 2012 with over a full year’s worth of service time. Either way, not manipulating a player’s service time doesn’t guarantee that he will sign an extension. Nor does manipulating his service time guarantee that he won’t.
And they would have had the best players on the roster. I wanted them to hold Tatis down for 15 days. Not half the season.
If padres don’t sign him before he hits free agent year . then this will be looked back on as dumb call!!!!
Whoa. Here they come
Eloy-ish extension to be announced shortly?
Was thinking the same thing.
Might have a little to do with Urias not hitting at all this spring until the last couple games.
I’m going to be watching the padres quite a lot. Not just machado I also really need to see Tatis, Reyes, Strahm and Paddack. This team is gonna be fun
Dorothy Mantooth is a saint!
This might have to do with the fact that Urias hasn’t hit all spring until the last couple games.
Absolutely does. If Urias hit well last year in his call up, or this spring, tatis would still be in the minors. But, in my opinion, even with Urias struggling in that small sample size…. it still isn’t worth calling tatis up yet.
This move makes NO sense. Also, enjoy the bench Urias. You won’t be starting over Kinsler. Certainly not right away. Unless he (Urias) is sent back down to AAA, what a complete waste. Tatis has played 1/2 year of AA ball and has to figure out a way to cut down on his strikeouts. In addition, he is an extremely slow starter each year. IN ADDITION, they just burned a year of control. Seriously, for every one good move Preller makes, he follows it up with two or three duds. Definitely dislike this move for three reasons: Control over tatis just lost a year, tatis isn’t ready for the majors yet, and you just relegated another alleged “top prospect” (Urias) to a bench role. Terrible
Urias is a 2B not a SS. It’s fine, they need to sign him long term anyway. He needs to face big league pitching. If they screw up signing him long term then I’ll be pissed.
Urias was slated to play SS while tatis was in the minors, with Kinsler at 2B. Now Urias will be on the bench, unless they send him back to AAA. And he needs to face big league pitching? He has barely faced AA pitching! Tatis still has work he needs to do…. I don’t like this move at all
.286/.355/.507 as a 19 year old in AA over 88 games is fine. Yeah he struck out 109 times but he’s good enough to be on the 25 man now. Kinsler won’t be on the team long and won’t be playing every day either. they can split time at 2nd early on.
Over half a season…. which included a terrible first month, followed by an incredibly hot month. And yes, he strikes out A LOT….. against AA pitching… don’t think that will be an issue against major league pitching? Think again. There is zero point in not letting him develop more. This team is not near a playoff appearance, there is no rush. Poor poor poor decision.
We’ll see bud. Why not just enjoy it?
Because I don’t have to just enjoy/agree with every move a team makes. If I disagree with a move, I can be frustrated about it and still be just as passionate of a fan, right? Just like the hosmer signing I thought was a big mistake…. I didn’t “just enjoy” his first season either. I’m a Padres fan, but I can evaluate each move individually and not just clap and agree with every move.
But you’re right. We will see. I certainly hope I’m wrong.
I’ll agree with you for sure on Hosmer…that never made sense from day 1 of the rumors. Your points are valid I just don’t care about the extra year because I don’t care about Fowler/Seidlers pockets. I’m eager to see what the kid’s got
Fair enough. I’m actually less concerned about the year of control, as I am about whether he is actually ready to face major league pitching consistently. I wasn’t one of the “keep him down for two weeks until his service time will extend” people…. I’d actually like him to see AA and/or AAA pitching for a couple months. But oh well…. let’s hope he’s ready
I was a long time proponent of lots of minor league development, a minimum of 1000 AB … But that’s long gone.
Teams are no longer afraid of developing elite talent with the right mental make up at the major league level.
I like it with the right guys… He seems like the right guy.
Time will tell
There’s absolutely no way they would keep Urias on the bench when he has options. They want him playing full time. As for tatis, he is an extremely talented young player who is definitely ready for the majors. You can’t just look at age
I didn’t look at age. I watched him play, looked at his numbers, etc. I could care less about his age in terms of development. Age has nothing to do with it.
And yes, they are sending Urias down. However, it isn’t the first time a prospect would be a platoon piece and not play regularly. The “they want him playing everyday” mentality hasn’t been much of a factor with this management group. See: Franmil Reyes, Franchy Cordero, Hunter Renfroe, and now Francisco Mejía
If they are truly a year ahead of the rebuilding plan, where better for Tatis to learn and get better at hitting than in the bigs? I was just at ST this weekend and could just sense a different feeling with this team. They are all having fun together, were cheesing it up in front of the fans before the games, and just looked different! There is one ingredient to winning that can’t be measured and that’s chemistry. This team is building some tight chemistry!
That’s not on Fangraphs, so it can’t be real. Sorry.
If u disagree with Padre fans you’re a hater
Ohh, that’s baloney. Strikeouts are outs. Who cares how outs are made? Tatis is ready and kudos to the Padres for promoting one of the top prospects in baseball rather than the garbage service time manipulation most teams are engaging in.
Shhhhhhh, your not a baseball fan. This is good for the team, the city and the sport in general.
You forgot about what’s good for the player….. just like the Padres just forgot about. You’re (that’s how it’s spelled) not a logical fan
This is not good for Tatis?
We won’t know until he plays, right? We will see. My opinion is that he is not ready to face ML pitching everyday…so no, it would not be good for tatis.
Fair enough.
Don’t have to deal with a grievance, Tatis is probably more willing to sign extension in good faith, he’s one of the leagues best prospects, THEYRE TRYING TO WIN.
And let’s just say he does struggle like you think he will. What’s stopping them from sending him down and gaining that year right back? Don’t be mad at Preller.
They would have had no grounds for a grievance. Cubs got no repercussions for the Bryant service time manipulation and that was about as blatant as you can get.
And what makes you so sure he will sign an extension? Or that he wouldn’t have signed one if they had played the service time game?
The Cubs have had repercussions for the Bryant service time issue. Haven’t you heard him discuss it? You don’t think that will factor into his signing decision? You don’t think that is a factor as to what he thinks about the Cubs and his future? The Padres are doing everything right of late. You gotta love this.
Let’s see, they quickly avoided arbitration both times by agreeing to contracts for less than he was projected to get, they still control him for 3 more years and I’m not convinced he would have signed an extension or given the Cubs any kind of discount even if they hadn’t manipulated his service time. Also, it’s not impossible to extend a guy after manipulating his service time. Look at Buster Posey for example.
Bryant just wasn’t good enough to start that season in the majors.
He needed to work on defense and definitely baserunning.
Apparently never learned baserunning since he slid head first and injured himself last season.
You need to relax and enjoy things more.
You need to not respond if you don’t have any baseball input other than “enjoy things”…
Pretty ironic from a guy who was so staunchly defending their decision to have Joey Lucchesi on the roster to start the season last year.
Not comparable. One is a top 2 prospect. One want ranked.
Lower prospects have value too
Urias will start the season at El Paso.
Just saw that update. That’s good. Not that it makes me agree with tatis being promoted, but at least it’s not another logjam for playing time. Urias was supposed to be the “high floor” type…. could he be the first of the “top prospects in the top system” to flop?? He was virtually a guarantee to make this roster…. but a poor performance in his call up last year, combined with the poor spring (plus increasing strikeout numbers)…. might have the Padres a little worried. Certainly still too early to give up on him, but it’s also fair to say it’s definitely a step back in terms of their projections for him
Urias was sent down because Kinsler has hit well.
He will be fine.
This is more proof that they are trying to make the playoffs NOW.
He was sent down because his low strikeout rate hasn’t translated to the majors and because he can’t hit the ball out of the infield.
Perhaps you didn’t see him go opposite field, line drive in the seats today? Damn man, way too many people speaking in absolutes on here. We will just have to see how it plays out. Kinsler has looked great and is on the one year contract. Why is everyone freaking out like the decisions today will last the whole season? Guess what will happen if Kinsler struggles and Urias is killing it in AAA? Nice to finally have some depth. Urias has played 12 games in the big leagues and there are a lot of scouts on here calling him a bust. Young players often struggle. I like his approach.
Kinsler is on a two-year contract. Best case scenario is he plays well enough to draw some trade interest and until then, fills in while Urias works on his weak spots.
One home run doesn’t make up for the constant limp grounders to the 2nd baseman or shortstop that he hits.
It was his second opposite field home run in a few days. He has had a bad spring. Stating that he “can’t hit the ball out of the infield” suggests we are talking about a guy with no gap power, as opposed to a guy that didnt have a great spring…With the extreme trend in extensi9js, do we not think that Tatis will be offered soon? Saying that the leverage is gone really does not make a ton of sense to me. I think guys sign extensions because they want the financial security, not because they are willing to give something up to be in the opening day lineup.
I’ll bet he’s already been offered one. I will also bet he said no otherwise it would have happened by now.
And most of Urias’ PA’s end with him grounding out to 2B or SS because he can’t hit the ball out of the infield.
He had three in ST
I’ve got no dog in the fight, but yeah this seems really silly and rushed to bring Tatis up right away. It’s not like people were even really complaining about him not making the Bigs out of camp that much, because most know he needed more seasoning.
The only thing I can think of, was that some sort of promise was made to Manny when they signed him, about Tatis being up right away. Manny seems to really like Tatis.
If he struggles they can send him back down.
Year gained, problem solved. If he is ready, hooray for everyone!
They haven’t burned a year of control yet.
If he struggles at any point they can still send him down for 3 weeks and gain that year back.
Or,they could sign him long term anytime in the next 4 seasons.
Relax…..it’s a great time to be a Padre fan!
I should know….been one since 1969.
EXACTLY!!!! Except for the 1969 part. I was born in 78′.
Can’t send him down if he delivers on the hype. And did you ever think that maybe he won’t WANT to sign an extension?
So if he delivers on the insane hype you’ll be…upset?
Why wouldn’t he? He has a team that traded for him before he even played a professional game. He has a team that believes in him enough to bring him up when he was ready. He can play next to Machado for 10 years. Oh yeah, he can play in San Diego.
@dvmin98 your thinking sounds a lot like what people were saying about Freddy Galvis a year ago. How’d that go?
They haven’t burned anything. Service time clocks stop if players get sent back down. Why not start out with him and then send him down later for a few weeks for some “fine tuning” during a slump or after they are basically eliminated from the playoffs in late July.
Already been answered before but…
1. If Tatis is any good it will be impossible to do that without getting hit with a grievance from the MLBPA
2. By calling him up and sending him back down the Padres burn an option year. By holding him down for two week before calling him up for the first time they burn no option year.
Actually, they still burn an option either way. Which of course shouldn’t matter anyway for a player of his caliber.
Not before he was on the 40 man
But, who cares, it’s possible he signs an extension. The padres didn’t play games with him and brought him right up.
Ready to win
No they don’t burn an option year either way. Tatis doesn’t have a 40-man roster spot yet. If he spent the first 2 weeks in the minors, got called up and then never got sent back down, the Padres do not burn an option year.
It was also possible that he signs an extension if the Padres hadn’t put him on the roster to start the season.
Cry me a river
What? WHY!? Have fun losing Tatis after 2024!
Lots could happen before then. He could bust. He could be derailed by injury. He could fall in love with San Diego and sign an extension. He may not want to leave anyway.
Care less about 2024, and care more about today.
And if any of those things happen the Padres lose nothing, let me repeat, NOTHING, by holding him down for the first 15 days of this season.
They gain weeks of production from a potentially quality player, in a year that has opened up the opportunity to push for the postseason.
They avoid any heat or lingering issues with Tatis, who may be inclined to hold deliberate service time manipulation against the Team.
They show their fans that winning is important, which is underrated, considering attendance is down – particularly with Teams that are quite obviously not trying to compete.
Repeating something doesn’t make it right, FYI.
So apparently two weeks of a 20 y/o is worth more than a full year of a guy in his prime now.
There would have been no heat or lingering issues from Tatis and even if there was it wouldn’t matter for another 6 and a half years.
The team will win plenty of games. Tatis would only need to be down for 2 weeks, not half the season!
It was already right before I said it.
Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.
They can also send him down if he struggles.
And if he doesn’t?
I don’t see how the Padres push for the postseason with Joey Lucchesi as your ace. That rotation is the worst in the division. The lineup looks pretty good and the bullpen is very good but you’re going to have a hard time competing with a bunch of guys who can’t even throw a full seasons worth of innings yet in your rotation. I’d say your odds are exponentially better in 2020 and I certainly would’ve held Tatis down. But hey, you guys got your man early.
Who’s your? The Pads aren’t my Team.
“There would have been no heat or lingering issues from Tatis and even if there was it wouldn’t matter for another 6 and a half years”
How can your argument on this point be that it won’t matter for 6 and a half years, when your entire viewpoint is built around the potential for an issue in 6 and a half years?
Get your opinion straight – you’re confusing yourself.
My opinion is that the decision to not hold Tatis down for the first two weeks is completely moronic. Padres had nothing to lose and everything to gain by doing that.
Logic doesn’t work with illogical people Ryan.
You are forgetting that they can always send him down for three weeks anytime in the next three years and regain that extra year of control.
@hiflew already been addressed.
They cannot win the division if they don’t come out hard in April when they have a heavy majority of division opponents and when the Dodgers have traditionally been weak. They won’t win anyways, but not promoting Tatis would be literally giving up on the season
If he doesn’t struggle the Padres made the right decision. They can always extend him too.
Then you answered your own question…if Tatis doesnt struggle (which I think he will a lil bit) then the Padres actually chose the correct time to promote him. If he does, send him back down to work out the major kinks ala Urias.
Absolute wrong time to promote him
Exactly. Holding a player down the first two weeks to gain an entire extra year of control is the biggest no brainer in sports for a team. Especially a guy like Tatis Jr, who still has development. I’m actually surprised lots of Padres fans are so happy they did this.
I’m a Cubs fan and thank the Heavens the Cubs pulled the same crap with Bryant.
Plus even if they do extend him, the team loses all leverage so it will be for money then they otherwise would’ve had to pay, which obviously effects other talent that can be signed. It’s amazing not everyone gets this.
I dont understand…you’re using the kris Bryant played the grievance thing because he was held back a few weeks even though he felt he was ready for bigs…but are also saying that if Tatis is successful enough to be up that he should still not be promoted?
I would think the padres would have more of a case against a potential grievance filed by Tatis camp (who seemingly isn’t nearly as ready offensively as Bryant when he was initially held down)…if Tatis shows he cant initially thrive after being a given a chance to prove himself in the big stage in comparison to Bryant’s previous situation, no?
The padres can say they gave Tatis ernest chance for him to prove himself from very start ..where as cubs obviously used service time manipulation (like many other teams do as well)…so it puts onus on young Tatis to prove that he belongs right away.
I actually think he struggles a bit and gets sent down for a bit…but Tatis does have one thing that solid players inherently have…the ability to adjust quickly. That doesnt make him a surefire star in the making but only time will tell if he has enough in him to produce enough to stay in the majors throughout.
They didn’t have to give him a chance and have him fail to avoid a grievance. If the MLBPA weren’t able to get what they wanted with Bryant they wouldn’t have had a chance on Tatis. But now that he’s been called up, it’ll be a whole nother story unless he completely tanks.
You seem very bitter. It’s a great time to be a Padres fan!
You have to play him or flip him. Plus more than likely he will get an extension like that kid from chi town got a few days ago
The leverage for an extension goes away when you put him on the major league roster beforehand. Eloy got his extension so he didn’t sit in AAA for 3 weeks. Not typically how you’d do that.
Evan Longoria.
You could list any name you want but that doesn’t make the fact any less true. When you have him on the roster day 1 you give up some of your leverage as an organization.
I believe that extensions are signed by players to gain financial security. I do not believe they agree to extensions because the club is nice enough to put them on the opening day roster. Players motivation to sign an extension should not significantly change should the offer come on June 15th as opposed to March 15th.
He would’ve had to wait an additional year to go to free agency. Everything you said doesn’t change that. Security has now become more expensive for the team because he’s closer to FA then he would’ve been.
Right, and even if they do extend him now it will be for money then it otherwise would’ve been for. That “just extend him” argument is so flawed.
Can’t freaking stand when people say that
Uh no, they don’t have to do anything with him. And you can’t just assume that the player will sign an extension. People said the same crap about Freddy Galvis last year. How’d that work out?
Clearly, they did not really want to extend Freddy. Comparing Freddy to Tatis is also laughable, both in a talent comparison and a situational comparison.
Tatis still has a ton of incentive to sign an extension. It is all guaranteed money, and you do not know what kinds of injuries or slumps he may go through that bring down his arb money, not to mention 3 years of 550k min salary.
. The Padres 100% lose leverage on an extension when you put him on the roster day 1. They’re trying to win and young guys are criminally underpaid as I’ve said so I don’t have a problem if that’s what they want to do. But you have to realize what you just did here. There’s consequences to the decision.
Then how come like 100 articles were printed last year saying the Padres were interested in extending Freddy?
And he would still have all those incentives to sign an extension if the Padres held him down for the first 2 weeks. Arguably even more considering he’d be a year further from his long-term payday.
Padresfan — You are a rude crude dude. Lay off the mean sauce. Who cares about Freddy Galvis. That was the Padres of 5000 years ago. It is meaningless. Aren’t you glad he wasn’t extended? What a horrible decision that would have been. You should be excited about this season, not full of anxiety and rage. It’s spring. Baseball starts in two days and you’re all bent out of shape. Happy days!
That was the Padres of last year. Lay off the sauce, Tipsy.
Would have preferred Galvis over Kinsler. They basically fill the same role but Kinsler is limited to 2B while Galvis can play 2B, SS and 3B.
But the decision to trade a prospect for one year of him where the Padres lost 96 games even with him on the roster was baffling.
jbigz — And the padres of last year are the padres of 5000 years ago. Two eras. Don’t be such a literalist. Sometimes metaphors speak more than words ever can. I thought we could have something more than a first level conversation here. I guess you’re not ready.
Freddy Galvis was, legitimately, one of the very worst offensive players in baseball lkast year (Non Chris Davis division) Galvis has two skills – he doesn’t miss games and he has a good glove. That’s it. It’s okay to let him go.
I mean I get that ppl want Tatis an extra year…but I will say that if there’s any Padres’ ownership that will show the ability to pay to keep homegrown star at mlb star prices…I believe in Siedler and crew. It goes down the line of Myers, then Hosmer, and now Machado as to my educated case on why there’s a better chance then before in believing that.
Padresfantic…do you not have any faith in the new ownership at all?
Sending him down for the extra year would not have stopped them from paying to keep him. And guaranteed control of his age 26 season would have been a nice consolation prize if they failed (which they may well do anyway).
I put faith in those who earn it.
The point is that the Padres can still send him down as needed… and your “if” situation also applies to assuming that he and mlbpa actually try to file a grievance down the road…right now the only known is that the onus is on Tatis to try and make good that he truly belongs.
If he doesnt produce…he very well knows that there is a good chance he gets sent down ala his buddy Urias. Franmil Reyes is a Padres that showed it’s not the end of the world if that happens…players know it is a known factor in the game no matter who they are.
They can only send him down if he completely tanks. And absolutely the MLBPA will try to file a grievance against a team that sends a top 5 prospect in the game down for service time purposes. The better Tatis plays, the more of a case the MLBPA has and the more important it becomes to get that extra year of control.
There are a lot of “if’s” in this situation. If they had just started Tatis in AAA for two weeks there would be a grand total of zero “if’s” wrt them controlling him for 2025.
Lol you’re the Padres fan…YOU have fun losing him
They have nothing to lose to see what he is made of. It’s great having a stacked farm but unless you play the kids to see if they can succeed or not it is only that, a stacked farm. I’m really happy for the kid ! If he struggles this season fans better not jump on the “he’s a bust” wagon quickly either. Judge looked terrible in 2016 and well … you know what happened the next season onward 😉
They have a whole year of control to lose and it’s not like 3 weeks in the minors would’ve been an eternity. Preller must think his job is on the line if they don’t improve. That’s my best guess. I guess he doesn’t really care about year 6 of tatis if he gets canned beforehand.
No. Look for an extension, which will make service time irrelevant.
They could extend him I never said that wasn’t a possibility but you’ve lost leverage in those discussions by putting him on the roster day 1. Maybe he’s thankful for that and they can come to an agreement on an extension but this isn’t a position which gives the team power. It takes some away.
Great, they lose leverage. Now they give him 8yr/$90M instead of 8yr/$80M. Oh no.
The difference for a year of FA is bigger than that. But that’s clearly not that point. They gave away something they didn’t have to. Imagine if the Indians did that with Lindor right now. They’d be looking down the barrel of a gun with 2 years left. You think they’re happy they did that? Or the cubs with Bryant. The list goes on and on. You don’t know that Tatis even wants an extension. There’s a reason your white Sox inked Eloy before the season because you can bet your life his service time was going to be manipulated if not. It already had been because you know he was ready for a September call up last year…..The smaller the market the more crucial these control years are.
Players absolutely get the shaft in the system but as an organization why would you give away your advantage? Are your opponents going to stop using it? I don’t think so. Not until someone rewrites the rule.
They have a whole year of control to lose genius!
Like I said above, he’s probably getting an extension my friend
Oh you mean like how Freddy Galvis was probably getting an extension?
Never your friend.
I agree. But you might have say it a few times. LOL
You my friend are out of touch. Calling yourself a Padres Fanatic and then typing negatively about a great moment where “your team” did the right thing is odd. The Padres are setting a precedence by NOT KEEPING an MLB ready star in the making down. They are going for it now and having Tatis out on the field as the starting SS is the smart money. You want excitement and anticipation in SD? You got it pal. You also understand 14 of their first 17 games are against division rival opponents, these games are HUGE. So, my advice is to sit back and enjoy the show. These aren’t your old Padres and this all starts with making changes.
Let’s not talk about “doing the right thing” when the agents whining about service time manipulation are the same guys that will drive a truck at 100 mph through any loophole they find that benefits them.
There is no benefit to having Tatis on the roster to start the season. And after 2024 when he moves on you’ll realize that.
Ditto!
Chill out man
Preller may really be feeling the seat get warm here. Idk. Maybe it builds a good relationship between team and player but this was a big gamble.
Are the Padres’ prospects overhyped? The real thing?
Not a Padres’ fan, but excited to see how they turn out.
Only way to know is if they play
Yankee do you truly believe they wouldn’t know how good he was if they waited a few weeks and got the extra year of control? Are these 3 weeks going to be that crucial? It’s a bold move by preller and more power to him if he wants to do it. Young players are criminally underpaid and this is very good for Tatis as he’ll be able to get to FA earlier if he chooses to do so. But waiting 3 weeks isn’t detrimental to the player at all.
I agree with you but there has to be a legit reason for this
He did the same thing with Lucchesi last year. Tatis is obviously another caliber of prospect but this doesn’t mean anything other than he’ll be on their roster day 1 and they’re taking a serious risk of losing that extra year for a couple weeks. With the way the rules are written right now it makes too much sense to wait from a business perspective. Things will probably change in the next CBA and preller may just be moving that way now. its risky.
My only hope is that in the event he struggles the Pads don’t do like they did with Anthony Rizzo and trade him away.
It’s great to see a Team trying to put the best Team on the field they can today – rather than focusing on what may or may not happen half a decade down the track.
I agree
He can play the field no doubt hopefully he can hit major league pitching
Without an extension, this makes zero sense.
Which means? Yep. Fully expect an Eloy-type extension.
That would be terrible, in my opinion. I don’t know about you spack, but I am 100% against signing a player to an extension prior to them seeing major league action. Hate it. Probably the biggest gamble you could take….
With the new CBA coming in 2021, I’d expect some aspects of free agency and arbitration to change. Extend now and avoid that change. Probably save millions in arbitration, too. I think it would be the smart thing to do.
They’re going to have to do that to players coming up moving forward if things change. I don’t think you’re going to see any change that effects Tatis or guys who come up this year.
Guys who have already extended would have a legitimate grievance if that was the case.
@Kwflanne the idea is extending him will cost a lot more if they wait a year and he delivers on the hype. So if they believe in him then absolutely extending him now makes sense.
I understand that it’s cheaper to extend him now, than after a few seasons IF he delivers on his potential. That’s why I called it a probably one of the biggest gambles a team could make. I just happen to not agree with doubling down on a prospect who hasn’t shown anything at the major league level yet. I understand the reasoning behind it, just don’t agree with actually doing it.
Yes it is a big gamble. This is reflected in it costing less than extending a guy after he has already shown he can hack it in the Majors.
Oh and please please please please PLEASE don’t say they can still send him down later on to get that extra year of control.
1. If Tatis is as good as advertised it will be impossible to send him down without getting hit with a grievance from the MLBPA.
2. Calling him up then sending him back down burns an option year. Holding him down for the first 2 weeks of the season does not.
If the Padres run out of options on Tatis it only means he was a massive bust. That is not something they should be worrying about.
The threat of a grievance if they send him down later is tho.
But if they’re sending him down, it’ll be because he’s struggling. He’ll have no grounds for a grievance.
And if he is mashing then it becomes all the more urgent to get that extra year of control.
If he’s playing well the extra year of control is gone. Even if he’s playing moderately well you’re probably not going to be able to send him down without a grievance being filed. If he’s bad that’s really the only way you can do it. This was obviously the risky way to go. That extra year is likely gone. I think preller feels some pressure for his job. This is the kind of thing you do when your seat is heating up IMO. This isn’t really a move with a long term view in mind.
And the better he plays, the more important that year of control is.
When was the last time a grievance was filed over a player being sent down?
Kris Bryant. And he was still an unproven prospect when the Cubs did what they did. Doing it with a guy who has already made his debut and done well would be WAY different.
Marco Gonzales just got an extension based on a grievance filed this offseason……
Not an extension but a reworked pre arb salary.
Why do you care about option years? If he is great, you don’t need options. If option years ever come into play, calling him up right now doesn’t hurt the padres.
Losing control of Tatis’ 2025 season does hurt.
The way that service time works, they would have to send him down in early to mid August to get that 14-15 days off his service time. 172 days is considered a full year of service time.
I already knew all that. They can technically send him down whenever they want to get that extra year of control. My point is if he is as good as hoped and they try to send him down they would certainly get hit with a grievance. But if they did it now, Tatis would be a guy who has barely played above A-ball and ended last season on the DL. The MLBPA would have no case.
The better he plays, the more important that extra year of control is. And the more likely the MLBPA is to come after the Padres for trying to get it.
I agree with you. This is a very short term view. Fans love instant gratification so obviously >80% of Padres fans are going to love hearing Tatis is in their opening day lineup. But this team is a real long shot to do anything this year. That rotation is not ready to challenge in the increasingly strong NL.
He’s 19 years old. He’ll be playing next To a guy who broke in at the same age and has been pretty great. That’s all great. But just remember what the Padres are potentially giving up. When machado broke in with the orioles he was a decent player but when machado left the orioles he was an absolute star. Giving up a season of a guy who could be an absolute star isn’t something I’d do for 2 weeks of unknown production.
You guys are being so literal about everything. Sometimes a decisions gets made because of the intangibles that you cannot see. You can’t put these things in a box, measure them, dissect them, etc. They belong in the ethereal realm or the land of the immaterial. One of those intangibles is your team and individual players playing with hope and excitement and camaraderie and “oneness.” This is a move that hopes to capitalize and/or be a massive catalyst for those intangibles. Happy players make a happy team make a team that gels make a better ballclub. That is the goal. Preller isn’t on any hot seat or any other conspiracy you can throw out there. Tatis starting the season isn’t stupid even if they “lose” a season from him. This is the move that creates the best ballclub for now and in the long run.
You’re attempting to argue that the Tatis and the rest of the Padres will be so happy that they came together 3 weeks early that this bolsters them to greatness moving forward? Yeah I’m not going to buy that one.
Cute theory. But until you can come up with some empirical evidence to prove it, it’s just that. The ideas that sending Tatis down for the first 2 weeks of the season would give the Padres an extra year of control on him and that having an extra year of control on a player is a good thing are both facts, not theories.
THANK YOU
You are the worst Padres fan.
Fanatic and jbigz
You can’t give empirical proof to this kind of evidence — only first hand accounts and ancecdotal. This is something the overly-left-brained super-logic thinker can never comprehend. It is even something Science can fail to understand (especially with their observer effect).
To you, this is a fantasy and a made-up superstition. Well, there are realities that I can experience that you cannot. I can give you one piece of proof (it will not satisfy you) — but look at what Torii Hunter did for the Twins three years back, when they shocked baseball with a winning record and actually competed for a playoff spot. Intangibles, leadership, excitement, spark, belief, etc. — all things that cannot be measured in your empirical head. Why, because to someone like you it cannot exist unless it can be written down, measured, and put in a box.
So, keep calling these things “cute” – by doing so, you really are missing out on life. You notice how almost every else on here is excited about Tatis being on the roster? Do you not that maybe that level of excitement by the fanbase can really help out the energy of a young team? Not to bring up the Twins again, but look at the 87 Twins. They were not a particularly great team. But they beat some excellent teams to win the World Series. The reasons for that had to do with the fanbase and intangibles among the players, including a sort of unseen connective tissue that fanatic and jbigz cannot measure or put on a statsheet.
If they had kept Tatis in the minors the first two weeks, they would not have won one fewer game once he got called up than they will with him on the team to start the season. Period.
But it may have changed the mindset of the team. Period. Period. Period.
No it wouldn’t have. Exclamation point exclamation point exclamation point exclamation point exclamation point exclamation point exclamation point one.
So, if you’re saying that having Tatis on the team won’t contribute to them winning, then why do we care if he’s there for an extra year or not?
I never said having Tatis on the team won’t contribute to them winning. I said that having him in the minors for the first 15 days of the season won’t have a noticeable effect on the “mindset” of the team or whatever. But I get the feeling that you knew that and just want to troll.
If there is truly ZERO time in the next 6 years where Tatis does not have a slump, that means the Padres have the best player since Mike Trout. At that point, I don’t think you need to worry about anything else. If however, he has even a mild slump like 99.999% of all other players, send him down and be done with it.
And if he is good enough to never send down for three weeks, then why are you worried about options?
If he is as good as we hope he will be, a mild slump won’t fool the MLBPA.
Stop worrying about control. If he struggles send him down for three weeks or longer. Right back to having extra year of control. I’m more interested in who will not earn that roster spot.
It’s got to be that Pirela, Garcia thing that’s been going on…?
I really hope it’s Pirela. Guy only hits when it doesn’t matter and he is a terrible defender.
It might not be the SMARTEST move, but I’d posit:
1. It’s GREAT Public Relations; it helps the Pads in that regard
2. The Union will be happy
3. There’s little doubt, with extensions and stuff, that MLB is pushing teams (especially those that have been pocketing Revenue Sharing money) to stop gigging the system and put some excitement out on the field. It’s the beginning of the end of the “playing for the future” idiocy, which was nothing but marketing anyway.
Considering the amounts players are now getting in arbitration, I’m not surprised.
As a Padre fan, unless they have contract in place similar to what Jiminez signed with the White Sox, this is plain stupidity. This is one move that I cannot see the silver lining of, unless an announcement of a deal is forthcoming.
Padres earning some good karma here. What is legal or allowable is not always ethical.
Mets made similar decision with Pete Alonso. Organizations are painting themselves into corners by saying they’ll take the “top 25” to the regular season. Honestly, the control rule is bogus. Who came up with 2+ weeks saves a full year? All-Star Break would be understandable. Mid-April is BS.
Preller signed Hosmer. Bet he’d like to take that one back.
Manny: “You bring up Tatis to start the year I’ll sign”
Padres: “Done”
its being wildly reported that the next CBA will change that year of control thing anyways. If they think hes ready then they want to show the fans that in the 50th year anniversary, they want to make noise
I am calling it now Urias to Cleveland in a deal around Kluber. Padres have Kinsler 2 years, have Owen Miller who should be ready to contribute next year as a utility guy at least, and Xavier Edwards, and Tupucano down in A ball who both look legit
If they do change the service time thing it won’t retroactively apply to guys who already had their service times manipulated.
And seriously, give the Kluber thing a rest.
I wondered how long it would take for more proposals for Cleveland’s pitching.
Also remember there having Hudson Potts play second . I like your thinking
In other news, Luis Patino threw 5 shutout innings in a minor league exhibition today … 2 hits, 2 BB, 3Ks. Maintained 95 thru the fifth … this follows Morejon’s 5 hitless innings Sunday. Madfriars reported that Mason Thompson (3rd round, 2016) has been the talk of the camp … was mowing down hitters hitting 97 the other day.
Bad news: Michel Baez has been shut down for the last 10 days. No cause given. Same with Osvaldo Hernandez, who will not break camp with Lake Elsinore.
Padres minor leaguers won both games in Mexico City over the weekend, 11-2 and 7-4. Hudson Potts with 2 bombs, a double and a triple in the two games.. Gore was untouchable Sunday, throwing mostly fastballs between 94-98. Saw video of his outing. Dude is electric.
I’m so impressed with Gore & Patino. Especially Gore. Morejon is pretty awesome too. Really enjoyed the backfields in Peoria last year and this year.
Thanks for the update spack! Are you on any other forums for Padres now? You always have great minor league recaps! As for Baez, I am wondering if it’s something pretty serious. He posted something on his Instagram saying how “everything happens for a reason… and trying times will only make you a better person…” something along those lines. I originally thought maybe he had broken up with his girlfriend or something haha but maybe it’s talking about this injury.
KW, me and CSpackler are from the Union Tribune San Diego baseball forums and have been there for years and years
Hey Spikes. Fancy seeing you here.
Have you seen the video of Gore in Mexico? He was sensational against a pretty good Mexico City team (roughly Double-A level).
Just the SDUT. I tweeted Acee about Baez … find out what’s happened.
Madfriars answered … apparently neither Baez nor Hernandez is a major concern.
Well that’s good. Maybe his Instagram post was just a girlfriend issue haha.
For all of you guys it think Urias and Tatis should be sent down, who would play shortstop on opening day?
I don’t think both should be sent down. Just tatis. Urias would play SS until tatis is ready
Urias has done nothing to win the starting job this season at ss with the major league team.
Nope, he sure hasn’t. But development wise, he’s still (in my opinion) more ready for the major leagues than tatis. Same reason he was called up last season.
Bold, but maybe not all that smart. Tatis will undoubtedly be a better player in 6 years than he will be this season and without much more starting pitching the Padres are not going to contend in 2019. Would you give up a year of a player’s best baseball for about 2 weeks to start his rookie season?
Maybe they’ll have him signed for an extension this year??? Well past 2024?
“MAYBE?” You don’t give up a full year of an All Star’s prime for a maybe!
Padres have not lost a year of control yet. At some time he will be sent down for a few weeks to regain that year back.
Good luck doing that without hearing from the MLBPA if Tatis is any good.
Their number one farm is heavy in high upside pitching. If you know only major leaguers, you don’t know who they are, but scouts and guys like Keith Law do. The Padres are putting out their better prospects now, because there are more on the way. They don’t need somebody else’s #4 innings eater, their own young pitchers can probably match that, and improve as the season goes along.
Urias is happy im sure
Thank you James Shields
Could this just be a PR move and biding time to get Urias going? If you have Tatis up for a month then send him down (and bring Urias up)… he then needs to spend 8-9 weeks down until Tatis still gains the extra year of control. May be a different way to utilize the service manipulation.
You can’t send down Tatis if he’s playing even moderately well. He’s going to have to suck to ever see that happen.
Tatis will be ok..Same thing was said about Bogaerts when he was called up. He turned out good.
I’m almost more surprised that Urias won’t make the club at 2B.
Kind of ironic. For years, some of the most critical Padres fans have been harping on how cheap the organization has been. Now they make a move like this and many of those same fans are screaming about an issue which is ultimately about saving money.
No, it’s not about saving money at all. The Padres won’t have to pay Tatis a single penny more because they didn’t send him down. What it is about is not losing him entirely after the 2024 season.
What this does is actually make it more likely the Padres pay less for Tatis because he won’t be a super two and will go thru arbitration one less time. Barring an extension they lose a year of control but will save a few million bucks. The idea is that another year of Tatis is worth more than those millions of dollars.
The only way to avoid Tatis being a Super Two arbitration eligible player was to keep him down until June. The Padres face losing his first season of his prime years to get the good PR of bringing him up now. That is the trade off. Two weeks of Tatis now vs a full year in his prime. You will have to make the decision which you value more. I would prefer a year of a player that talented in his prime instead of two weeks in a throwaway season.
You don’t know how Super Two works. Tatis is not a Super Two as it is because he will be arb eligible 3 times. If they had held him down for 2 weeks he would have been 1st time arb eligible at the same point as before (after the 2021 season) but would he arb eligible a fourth time after the 2024 season rather than going to free agency, thus becoming a Super Two.
Sure it is. Year of control = money. Plain and simple.
No it isn’t. Club control and money are two completely different concepts.
@fanatic
you’re using a lot of words to describe a scenario which could potentially be nonexistent if tatis signs an eloy deal tomorrow, or a bregman deal in 2 or so years. worry not about what happens AFTER 2024. it’s march 2019 hombre, and the best available prospect in the game is starting opening day.
There’s a lot of “if’s” there. Having control of Tatis’ 2025 season was never going to be an “If” if Preller had done what he should have done and what everyone does and started Tatis in AAA.
one if, and it doesn’t matter. tatis is going to be in SD well past 2025. preller will see to that.
don’t break your keyboard in a rage after your frivolous attempt at complaining falls upon deaf ears. toodles hombre
Powerball numbers please
Ryan?
No. They’re not. Club control implicitly means money. Just a matter of how much and when.
Not at all. The Padres don’t have to pay Tatis more money in 2025 by calling him up now. They risk losing him entirely for that season by calling him up now.
While I was definitelynand admittedly one of the ones who had issue with the Padres not spending money in the past (which I think could be said for any Padres fan…), I still don’t like this move. IF he signs a contract extension like Jimenez and very few others have prior to ML service, I just don’t agree with the pure gamble of it. There’s spending money, then spending money wisely. Signing hosmer, not spending wisely. Signing machado, spending wisely. I’ll even say (at the time) the Myers extension was spending wisely (although I think ultimately it was a whiff as Myers hasn’t exactly performed yet)…. but I just simply don’t agree with giving an extension to a player who has yet to face regular major league pitching. It’s too big of a gamble for my taste. Especially with this market club…. yes, they have exceeded all expectations in terms of how much they will spend. But make no mistake, they are reaching their threshold. They are not the Yankees, dodgers, Red Sox, etc…. they are already pushing the limit on their payroll. I’d just rather not guarantee extended money to a player who they literally has not seen in a single major league game yet. Fact is, major leagues > any minor league level. Nobody can argue that. AAA to the majors is still a huge jump. That’s a pure, simple fact. The HOPE is that tatis lives up to his potential (and we all hope he does)…. it’s just not a gamble I’d be willing to take.
Did anyone also notice Mejia can hit? Urias also had pretty good minor stats that should translate into success.
Cool to see a move that’s not all about the money. Jeter in Miami should take some notes here.
Sending Tatis down wouldn’t have saved the Padres any money.
It wouldn’t? Wouldn’t it add another year of control? If so that’s saving money
Nope. Two different concepts.
“As ever” is a bizarre thing to write by itself.
I was a long time proponent of lots of minor league development, a minimum of 1000 AB … But that’s long gone.
Teams are no longer afraid of developing elite talent with the right mental make up at the major league level.
I like it with the right guys… He seems like the right guy.
Time will tell
Does this mean Tatis will be signed to an extension this year???? (I.e. Eloy)
why Urías doesn’t make OD is surprising to me. This may be about preserving his health, maybe that hamstring’s a little tender and needs to get its strength back??? Although I’m sure he’ll get everyday at bats down in EP, so I don’t know…interesting move….
Didn’t make OD cuz he can’t hit the ball out of the infield and suddenly started striking out a ton.
He hit two opposite field home runs in the last three days.
Hyperbole doesn’t help your argument.
My 25-man roster:
Lauer
Lucchesi
Quantrill
Paddack
Strahm
Solis or Loup
Warren
Erlin
Stammen
Maton
Stock
Wingenter
Yates
Kinsler
Margot
Hosmer
Machado
Reyes
Myers
Tatis
Hedges
Renfroe
Cordero
Pirela
Mejia
Urías back up and Pirela down soon into the season…When is Freddy back? I’d say he’s the first OF up from AAA (when healthy) on any OF injuries (I.e. Myers). Also, anyone know how Dickerson’s doing? Would love to see him back in the MLB!
everyone: service time manipulation needs to stop, it’s hurting the game
Also everyone: what are the Padres doing what fools they are losing an extra year!
It’s not right but it is smart. 3 weeks for an extra year is a trade off that should make sense every time. People start putting personal feelings into it and attempt to say something it’s not. Blame the MLBPA for not seeing this as an issue when they signed the CBA. Teams not taking advantage of it is nearly as bad as the orioles of old completely punting international free agent signings. It’s a clear advantage that teams have. There’s a reason nearly everyone does it every single time. Or as we’re now starting to see teams use that leverage and extend guys.
I’ll be happy when the rules chamge because the players are getting the shaft on this. I don’t blame teams for using a clear advantage they have though. How could you? If your opponents are going to use that to their advantage why would you give yours away?
It’s not everyone, it’s just 2 very loud idiots. Most fans of baseball are thrilled to see a young potential superstar get a chance to impact the game. Don’t mistake 2 people posting the same nonsense over and over and OVER again for a general consensus.
Maybe by not ripping Tatis off now by forcing an extra year of control on him they are buying themselves some good will when he eventually becomes a free agent or when they want to try to extend him later.
Lot to give up for a theoretical intangible.
You’re still going? He’s earned it. Turn the page and watch some fun baseball in SD this season.
Bryant earned starting the 2015 season in the Majors. Probably more than Tatis did. Cubs still sent him down and are a million times better off because of it.
Intangibles aren’t theoretical. You must live in a petri dish or a laboratory or something. Petri dishes and laboratories are not real life.
The guy they just signed, Manny Machado, was Tatis’ biggest fan and lobbied heavily for him to make the team. There’s a TANGIBLE intangible: keep your $300 million man happy.
Machado is already signed bruh
D-Backs just lost Souza. Dodgers and Kershaw getting old. Giants getting old. Rockies, well, are the Rockies. I expect the Padres will be at least 3rd in the division. What do y’all think? Add a legitimate SP or 2, and Padres contend for a wild card spot??? I imagine it’d be against teams like Brewers/Cards/Cubs, Mets (Phillies will win East). I can’t imagine any of the NL west teams have good years except the Dodgers and MAYBe the Rockies. Thoughts? Or am I just a delusioned Padres fan?
I know all the experts say that tatis is the real deal, but it’s a red flag to me that the white sox made that trade. Like maybe there are serious character issues or something
@Emerson83
You have to give up quality young players to get back quality major league talent. That’s what happened.
Also keep in mind that at the time of the trade Tatis Jr. was not yet a Top 10 White Sox prospect. The White Sox received James Shields in that deal.
He was 16 in a class with Moncada and a bunch of others. There was an article recently in The Athletic by Dennis Lin of the UT. You should read it.
No, no issues, your answer is in the question. “The White Sox made that trade”. Clearly the most inept and clueless front office in baseball. In fact, they made this trade because they claimed they were “All In” and then proceeded to have a worse record than teams ACTIVELY tanking. You got a great prospect with a built in major league pedigree. Just be thankful that there was a team out there dumb enough to think James Shields was good. Enjoy!
“most inept and clueless front office in baseball”
Yet they were the ones that singed Tatis to begin with… He was the 30th ranked international prospect by MLB.com that year, and he signed for a whopping $700,000. He was nothing more than a lottery ticket at the time of the trade, and luckily for San Diego, it seems like they hit it pretty big.
Good point, SD was able to develop him into the top prospect in the game. Had he stayed in the Sox system, he probably wouldn’t have amounted to much.
He was signed by the Sox at 16 and was traded at 17 before he played a pro game for the White Sox. The deal was the Sox got a starter they thought was good and the Padres paid part of his salary every year he played in Chicago, and they gave up a prospect. The Sox thought they were getting the better of a salary dump, and the Padres thought they were getting a lottery ticket.
The White Sox front Office is a bunch of idiots. Don’t worry about what they do. They also tried to give Machado a silly plate appearance incentive based contract, that obviously no superstar would accept instead of guaranteeing the money it took.
And then threw a massive temper tantrum when Machado signed with the Padres instead
So many “experts” in this forum. I like the move, more experience and more excitement to start the season. This Padres team won’t win 75 games, starting rotation is bottom of the barrel.
The starting pitching may surprise you, but I’m no win/loss record predicting expert…
The first four actually might be pretty decent. But they might not be able to soak up that many innings and it might lead to the bullpen being overtaxed over the course of the season. Then the fifth starter spot is a big question mark.
Best prospect in baseball! Excited to see what he can do, it will be fun seeing him in the lineup w/ Manny. So… just asking for a friend, do you guys miss James Shields? lmao
Shields will be known for 2 things in SD. Bringing us Tatis Jr., and giving up a bomb to Bartolo.
Question: Can they send him down to AAA later in the season and get back the balance of service time? Yes, if they want any chance to win the division then they need Tatis in April But, when it’s clear come July that that won’t be happening, can they get their extra year of control back?
Some strange post going on here. To the head-scratchers:
Sometimes a decision gets made because of the intangibles that you cannot see. You can’t put these things in a box, measure them, dissect them, etc. They belong in the ethereal realm or the land of the immaterial. One of those intangibles is your team, and individual players, playing with hope and excitement and camaraderie and “oneness.” This Tatis move hopes to capitalize and/or be a massive catalyst for those intangibles. Happy players make a happy team make a team that gels make a better ballclub. That is the goal — a better ballclub. This is the move that creates the best ballclub for now and in the long run. And it makes the fanbase happy (well except that fanatic dude, but he’s a lost cause).
Hahaha! Yeah, his thumbs must be killing him from typing the same thing 50 times in this thread. Good points…a little hard to measure with analytics, so the pure numbers guys won’t like it, but there may be something to it. From the fan perspective, I can attest to this being the most exciting time in Padres baseball since 1998.
Your average fan wants their best prospect up tomorrow even if he’s not ready. That doesn’t make it the right move. The cubs didn’t have any problem winning that WS with Bryant and I’d be willing to bet they’re going to be very happy having him for another season. I don’t see how 3 extra weeks of Tatis on a loser is going to generate so much energy that this team just feeds off of it for years to come. Just don’t buy that one at all. That sounds like a nice thing to say and that’s about it. You’re going to see about 10 more top prospects from the Padres in the coming years and close to half these guys they have on the roster now probably won’t be there. I’m not buying the non quantifiable “electricity” this brings to the team or whatever you want to call it.
@jbigz12 Tipsy McStagger is just desperately grasping for straws because he knows he’s wrong. Only a fool would take some theoretical “electicity” or “energy” over having control of a future All Star’s age 26 season. Or think that keeping the aforementioned future All Star down for 15 measly days will stop that “electricity” or “energy” from occuring.
I am not saying that you don’t make a good rational argument. You do. That extra year of control would be nice. But they obviously must feel to do so would harm the dynamic of the team. Can you at least acknowledge this argument?
I have never disagreed with you. I just think you (among others) are leaving out other factors that go into a decision-making process. And to leave out those other factors is just a way of cherry-picking to fit the narrative you want.
There is a level of excitment and energy that had not been felt in San Diego for decades now because of these Padres. The admin sensed this and knew that sending Tatis down now would affect that, which would affect Machado, which would affect the entire team. But once again, you can’t measure this on a statsheet.
You can acknowledge the argument but it relies on a couple of examples. That’s not a strong argument when I could come back and say Acuna,Bryant, Correa, and Bregman off the top of my head. Didn’t mess up any team dynamic there and I bet their quite happy to have their guys moving forward. People will buy into that argument and your average fan will be happy. I completely get that. But that doesn’t make it the right thing to do.
I have acknowledged your argument. It’s just wrong. Leaving Tatis down for a whopping two weeks would not have kept this “excitement and energy” from happening. Nor would it have made a difference in Tatis’ chances of success. You’ll realize this when you get older.
It’s just wrong? Why would anyone even have a conversation with someone so conceited and smug? I think smugness is one of the worst qualities someone can have. It is usually a sign of some internal inadequacies. Age is not important here – maturity is. That is something that, well, you sorta lack. You’ll understand that when you grow up.
It’s not smugness, it’s a low tolerance for stupidity. Something that, well, you sorta have.
Those teams didn’t really need those players. They were pretty darn good without him. The Padres need all the good players they can get.
Yes, Cubs fans are very happy the Cubs held Bryant back those two weeks to get the extra year of control. Most of understood the benefit of it at the time. I don’t understand why lots of Padres fans don’t understand it. Bryant was also way more seasoned and ready then Tatis Jr is as well at that time.
Yeah, that’s a rough comp. Bryant was the College POY, then the MiLB in consecutive years before being called up, then of course he was ROY in spite of being called up after the service time clock, helped lead the Cubs to the NLCS then the following year he won MVP and led the Cubs to ring. I believe he’s the only player in MLB history to win College POY, MiLB POY, MLB ROY and MLB MVP in 4 consecutive years.
Also, he led the bigs in HRs and Slugging the spring he was still sent back. Clearly a smart move to gain an extra year of team control, no other reason to send him back to the minors for a few weeks. Bryant was much more of a seasoned and proven prospect. That said, Tatis looks legit to me. He’s my pick for ROY this year.
Just everything about the Bryant service time manipulation was obvious. He steamrolled his way through the minors, dominated in Spring Training, the Cubs gave some b.s. excuse for sending him down, called him up literally the first day after they gained that extra year and all the while his agent was throwing a temper tantrum over it. If the Cubs could get away with that, there’s no reason the Padres couldn’t on a guy who has barely played above A-ball and ended last season on the disabled list.
So we’re just going to consider me a lost cause because I realize that having control over a good player’s age 26 season is a good thing?
Oh and your comment was wrong the first time you posted it. What made you think it would be right the second time?
Okay, you’re not a lost cause. I have hope for you yet. I think you’ll see the mountain top. Just get out of that gloom and doom mentality. You second guess everything that doesn’t go some literal, by-the-books way. You don’t understand that the front office may see something that you, someone in no way connected to the front office, do not see.
But some of us fans understand what is going on. Bring the walls down and feel the excitement. Let it soak in. That’s why Tatis will be on the opening day roster. They didn’t wish to alter a good thing, a good feeling. Now, if sentiment changes and Tatis starts to tank, the Pads will get that extra year of control by sending him down. That is a very possible scenario. And if they compete this year, and have fun doing it, this will prove to be the MVP moment of the year. Why cry and throw a fit about it? Enjoy things.
Lol you’ll have to excuse me if I don’t have too much faith in this front office. It’s the same one that traded away Trea Turner and traded for Matt Kemp. You talk a lot about “excitement.” Well it’s gonna be really freaking “exciting” when Tatis walks after 2024, isn’t it?
And if Tatis doesn’t tank, that extra year becomes all the more important.
Fanatic — You are talking about a brand new admin that tried a quick attempt at making a winning team. It failed. I think most of us knew it would. But it showed that this front office was willing to actually do things. And they took those pieces and created the best minor league system in quite a number of years, which means they also are willing to play the long game. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Don’t be so cynical about the Pads. Chances are, next year they will make a couple more moves and be in the playoff hunt. And maybe this year they will get a few breaks, helped out by a positive attitude in the clubhouse, and create waves this year.
If they lose a year of control from Tatis, so be it. It isn’t the end of the world, especially if they win the world series before then. I think they have plenty of time to make that happen.
Sending Tatis down for a measly two weeks wouldn’t have stopped there from being a positive attitude in the clubhouse. I assure you that.
“If they lose a year of control from Tatis, so be it.”
That attitude is the reason this team has only made the playoffs 5 times in 50 years.
Educated fans would understand the importance of holding Tatis Jr back TWO weeks to get the extra yr. Plus Tatis could use a bit more seasoning.
You heard it here first. 1st: Rockies 2nd:SD….. LA sinks to 3rd
It’s bold. It’s not smart but it’s bold.
I am proud of the Padres front office. They have backed up their promises to the players that this was going to be a competitive spring. By bring up two prospects that were not expected to be brought up, and sending down one who seemed to have his spot sealed. This will vibrate throughout their organization and along with the last two years free agent signings make San Diego a place free agents, prospects, and draft picks want to come! It also means I’ll personally will be going to more games this year! Let the excitement begin opening day! Go Padres!
No doubt about it. So will I.
Hey Wov2. Love the Bartolo comment! That was maybe the only time I was truly happy for an opposing player going yard in my hometown! Hmm maybe, just maybe that was what lead to dumping Shields and SD getting Mr. Tatis.
Yeah, I was at that game. Took him about a month to get around the bases. At that point I think we had seen enough of Shields that all you could do was laugh. The fact that we got lucky enough to have what would become a top prospect come back in a trade for that guy is incredible.
And the Marlins traded Paddack to the Padres for Fernando Rodney (who went on to prove how badly mid season trades can fail). White Sox and Marlin fans must cringe when (thankfully rarely) their teams play the Padres lol!
My son (proud to say a huge Padre fan was watching the game, and yelled at me to run downstairs! Dad, dad you gotta see this! Last year he was like, “We should sign Bartolo, he hits homers here! Aaa yeah right.
I love these comments. For years and years, fans have been crying about how crappy the Padres have been. No playoffs since 2006. Constantly trading away their talent. Now they do an amazing thing to bring up Tatis and put him right next to Machado where he can learn and people STILL complain. Can’t win for losing, I guess.
GO PADRES
For those that think there’s no downside to keeping a stud in the minors for a couple weeks to gain an extra year of control, look no further than my Braves last year. Everyone is excited about the future we have, but I feel we missed a golden opportunity to capitalize on what seems to be the weakest NL playoff field for years to come. 2 more games won – a distinct possibility if we’d had an extra 2-3 weeks of our best player – would have given us home field against the Dodgers (where we won a game). A few more wins would have given us the #1 seed and a different matchup altogether. Now we’ve missed the opportunity to at least give our kids the experience of a competitive playoff series, and a “bright future” doesn’t guarantee anything moving forward – ask the WS Mets team from a few years ago that everyone thought was set up for years of continued success. Plus, the rest of our division reacted, so it’ll be a much tougher road to get back in the near future.
The Padres are at a similar point in their rebuild to the Braves last year – ready to start capitalizing on all the young talent they’ve acquired and developed. For an organization that has literally never won anything, how is it anything other than wonderful that they’re trying to put the best possible product on the field day 1?
Why is this dude so good anyway? His father wasnt that great and he’ll only be known for one thing. 2 grand slams in the same inning off the same pitcher. Chan Ho Park. I bet he’s a bust after 2 years.
Weird statement. If anyone’s dad is good enough to be a regular in the MLB that provides a couple advantages.
1) Dad knows a thing or two about baseball and gets son going at an early age.
2) financial aid and connections to get the right training and exposure
If you had a dad that even played college baseball it’s an advantage as a kid. The amount of knowledge he can give you is crazy. Compared to some kid whose dad played little league or not at all. Having a dad in the bigs is great. Canajay is spot on. I don’t think you thought about that comment before spilling it out.
Babe Ruth’s father wasn’t any good, either.
Did you forget that the White Sox traded Tatis Jr. to the Padres? This is a Padres article, not a White Sox one. No need to troll here. Move along.
Not really sure what is their reasoning. They are not going to be contenders this year , they are throwing away a year of control with this basically.
The truth is I think a lot of teams over thinking these prospect decisions are confusing and hurting their window. Teams are taking too long too long to figure out what they have in guys at the major league level. There’s a reason the NBA and NHL start so young at the highest level with these elite talents like Tatis and Acuna. I am not saying promote an 18 year old to the majors. Baseball is a game of rhythm and they need to have playing time and develop a major league approach before they can be called up. Baseball is a bit more complex. But once they have that approach, it’s time to see what they have on the field, especially when you don’t have a capable body in that role already (which is usually not the case as teams rarely have big deals blocking top prospects).
Ok, moving on from the should he/should he not be called up debate…. he’s here. So, next topic…. batting order. My thoughts and my ideal order: Tatis has struggled (not just a little… pretty bad numbers, actually) to begin each of the last two seasons in the minors. Each year, he started hitting in the #3 or #4 spot, and openly stated he was trying to do to much and trying to drive in runs. Then, in each season, he was moved into the leadoff spot, and that’s when he took off. His manager and himself stated it let him keep things simple…. just get on base. Now, his strikeouts concern me a bit in the leadoff spot. But he is also certainly a stolen base threat. I am simply tired of the Padres eventually calling up their “hitting prospects”, and slaying them to hit 7th or 8th with the likes of Margot, hedges, or the pitcher spot as their “protection” on the lineup. Some people don’t think batting order matters much, i disagree. While tatis would only technically “leadoff” one time in the game, he would have those proven hitters behind him all game, which impacts the pitches he sees (which is good, considering he tends to chase pitches and strikeout)… would be nice for him to see more pitches, including fastballs, in the zone. Please put this guy leadoff…. don’t give me the “don’t want added pressure on him…” if you’re decision is that he was ready to promote to the majors, then he’s ready. You can’t say he’s ready…. but let’s protect/hide him at the bottom of the lineup. Put him where he has succeeded his entire career, at the top of the lineup. That being said:
1) Tatis
2) Kinsler
3) Machado
4) Reyes
5) Mejía
6) Myers
7) Hosmer
8) Margot
9) pitcher
If you’re wondering why I have Mejía so high, it’s for the same reasons I want tatis up high. I’m tired of these promising prospects being sunk in the lineup to protect them, when in actuality, it exposes them because their “protection” is the worst hitters on the team and the pitcher. If Mejía is a bat first prospect, who has hit everywhere he has been…. let him hit where he belongs. I really like this lineup….. thoughts and changes??
Hedges.
Hedges. as the starting catcher.
Yeah, I just happen to disagree. I prefer Mejía to hedges. On a team that has struggled so severely with offense, I’ll twke the offensive upside of Mejía over the defensive upside of hedges. Personal preference. I don’t really see either opinion being the “wrong” choice
I’m more concerned about the pitching than the offense and the young pitchers are going to benefit hugely from having a strong defensive catcher/game caller behind the plate.
I’m concerned about the pitching too…. but that’s because of the pitching, not who is behind home plate. Lauer/Luchessi and other more veteran pitchers had hedges behind the plate all last season…. I wouldn’t exact call their performance “benefiting hugely” from hedges being behind the plate. I’m just not of that school of thought that a catcher makes a large impact on a pitcher. At the end of the day, a pitcher has to make quality pitches. Can a catcher have some impact, sure. It’s possible. But to me, it’s not enough of an impact to bench a bat like Mejía in favor of hedges. Also, when talking about pitch framing, I don’t like the emphasis on that either…. it’s a statistic that literally can’t be proven to be accurate. Unless the umpire admits “without that subtle glove move, I would’ve called it a ball”… there is simply no way to measure the importance of pitch framing. Nobody knows if a borderline pitch would or would have been called a ball or strike. I don’t see many pitches at the head or ankles being called strikes because of pitch framing…. I just ultimately think it comes down to the pitcher executing pitches.
“I wouldn’t exact call their performance ‘benefiting hugely’ from hedges being behind the plate.”
Well… we would have to see how they do with an inferior defensive catcher to draw any meaningful conclusions on that one.
How about their numbers with Austin Allen throughout the minors? I’d say he is considered a fairly inferior defensive catcher, but they still put up good numbers.
That was in the minors facing inferior hitters.
I’m not saying you’re wrong. What I am saying is it’s impossible to say Hedges didn’t make a difference until we see how they do with an inferior catcher behind the plate and all other thing equal.
I think swap Myers for kinsler. Get Myers’ confidence up.
And yeah, I don’t know what the Pads are going to do with the whole Hedges/Mejia scenario. I think if they would rather have Mejia, play Hedges a bunch and trade him when he has more value. If it is Hedges they prefer, do the opposite. I really don’t know how to handle that. I just don’t know how the two splitting time will give them any more trade value. It may help with deciding who they prefer. I think they want to prefer Mejia, but they need to know he can do things behind the dish.
Post edit: padresfanatic is correct about that assessment. Hedges would do a better job with the staff. That darn Hosmer signing! Could have put Mejia at first. Hindsight.
I can see a scenario where they roll with Hedges and Mejia long-term. Unlike Myers, Renfroe and Reyes in the outfield corners, the two catchers have different strengths and weaknesses and complement each other nicely.
But I don’t think Hedges and Mejia, two players that could start on a lot of teams, want to be rolled out long-term. It will most definitely hurt their paydays and could affect their performance. I think this season (maybe only part of it) is going to be the tryout for numero uno. One will be traded sometime in the next year, barring injury to themselves or maybe Hosmer.
I’d be ok with Myers second, as he would likely see a lot of fastballs ahead of machado. Hopefully that would help get his performance back to where it is expected.
As for the hedges comment… I just don’t put much stock in that. Gary Sanchez might be one of the worst defensive catchers in the game…. Luis Severino seemed to be just fine as a young pitcher. I am of the school of thought that it’s up to the pitchers to make their pitches…. a catcher has some impact, but I believe it is a lot less of an impact than people are saying. Hedges didn’t turn luchessi/lauer or Ross, Richard, Mitchell, Kennedy, Nix, or any of our other pitchers last year into pitchers with even a sub 4.00 ERA…. does that mean hedges did a bad job? Or does it mean the pitchers just weren’t good? That’s the way I view it…. a catcher has an impact on the pitchers, sure. But not enough (in my opinion) to sit Mejía in favor of hedges. It doesn’t offer that much upside to the pitchers.
Why would Myers see more fastballs batting ahead of Machado? A pitcher would have to be a complete moron to throw fastballs to a known fastball hitter, regardless of who is batting behind him.
A pitcher would have to be a complete moron to throw secondary pitches out of the zone in hopes of someone chasing, risking a walk and free pass, with a dangerous hitter like machado up next. Pretty basic baseball stuff. You see better pitches to hit, including fastballs, when there is a dangerous hitter behind you…… really thought you’d understand that….
Also, in this scenario, Myers would be batting second… in front of machado and behind a person who (in theory) would already be on base as a leadoff man…. more fastballs come when there is a man on base. That’s another pretty basic number that I thought you’d understand.
Won’t be arguing this one. Sorry. ANY player hitting ahead of machado, and especially with a man already on base, will see a heavier dose of fastballs and pitches in the zone. End of story
Myers does chase bad pitches. It’s been proven. You aren’t risking a walk because Myers doesn’t know how to take a walk. Look at what happened after Kemp got traded. People kept saying Myers struggled because he wasn’t getting any good pitches to hit but if that was the case his walk rate should have gone up. And it shouldn’t have even been close. His walk rate actually went DOWN. His batting average and slugging percentage also dropped like a rock. Clearly throwing secondary pitches out of the zone is the best practice against Wil. If he has a dangerous hitter like Manny Machado coming up after him it is all the more important to keep him off base and so there is even more of an incentive to throw him secondary pitches out of the zone.
Attacking an opponent’s weaknesses is baseball 101. Thought you’d know that.
What Kwflanne is saying is that if Myers is put in the #2 spot, he will get a significant bump in the amount of fastballs he would see as opposed to the number #6 spot. That’s an inarguable fact (okay it would be for most people). And that can only help a fastball hitter like Myers. And, Myers is above average in taking a walk. He may chase some bad pitches, but his walk rates are usually above average (68 and 70 walks 2016-7). Now, that rate might go down with Machado behind him, BUT, as just stated, it would give him more pitches to hit, including fastballs.
No he will not. He’s a fastball hitter. Only a moron would throw fastballs to a known fastball hitter. If he has a dangerous hitter like Machado batting behind him there’s even more of an incentive to not throw him fastballs because you are trying to keep the guy off base and his OBP and the number of fastballs he sees are directly proportional.
His walk rate went down after Matt Kemp got traded away. Along with all his other offensive stats. Why this happened is debatable but if it was because pitchers were approaching him differently as many say then clearly the new approach was working and will continue to work no matter who is batting behind him. It’d be one thing if he started walking like 50% of the time but his batting average and home runs completely vanished after Kemp got traded but that’s not what happened. ALL of his offensive stats went down.
I rarely insult people on this site. But you padres fan are the most stubborn, egotistical, narcissistic individual on here. You are NEVER wrong. NEVER. You can’t compromise. You can’t admit that a person COULD be right about something. You can’t even admit it is possible you could be wrong about something. So, I’ll leave you alone if you leave me alone. Deal?
Hey I’m just getting warmed up.
Why on Earth would a pitcher EVER give Myers anything good to hit if they KNOW they can get away with throwing him a bunch of secondary pitches out of the zone? And what empirical evidence do you have that calling Tatis up early will make the Padres play better beyond the first two weeks than if they didn’t call him up early?
Fanaticfan reminds me of a Russian troll. Just here to stir the pot and disagree with everything to annoy people. It’s rather amusing, actually. Either he really is a troll, in which case he’s doing a great job, or he’s a dude with this personality. In which case I feel bad for him.
So we’re just going to call me a troll because you’re not happy with what I said? And the fact that it’s true?
The ideal place to put your best hitter is second. Machado is the best hitter on the team. Myers should lead off since he’s the only guy on the team who steals bases. Other than that, lineup construction isn’t terribly important – give your best hitters the most at-bats.
Great move. Vets will be happy to know ownership is serious and Tatis will get an extension. Now he needs to produce to the projections.
Braves in 2017…….. 72-90……
Braves in 2018, call up top prospect Acuna, when many said was a tad bit early, as they were planning on competing starting this year, not really last year…….
Braves in 2018…… 90-72…….first place in NL East……
Padres in 2019…….. call up top prospect Tatis, which some are saying is a tad bit early, as they plan on competing in 2020-22……….
Padres in 2019………
Braves 2018 pitching > Padres 2019 pitching…. I understand your comparison…. but it’s a stretch. Different teams, different pieces. I’d say the braves were at a closer stage than the Padres are right now. But hopefully Padres are getting closer
Braves called up acuna after they got the extra year of control. Preston tucker was shagging balls in LF before that. That example would work against you for that argument. Could the Padres surprise like the Braves? Anything is possible. The NL is a lot stronger now so I wouldn’t bet on it.
^ very good point. As much as I’d like the Padres to compete for a playoff spot, I think sometimes people forget how good the NL is suddenly. NL east (aside from the marlins) could all contend (Phillies, braves, nationals, maybe Mets..).. NL central brewers, cubs, cardinals will all be in it… NL West dodgers, Rockies… and I wouldn’t count out the Dbacks just yet either.
Padres could contend, sure. But they are trying to do so in a window that the NL is very good.
The only hope for the Padres is that the giants and D’Backs are really bad and become punching bags they can beat up on for wins. Since the NL central and NL east project to be a dogfight the hope would be that all those teams beat up on each other too much and the Padres or Rox sneak in. Now, I like the Rockies better for sneaking in if that’s the case but that is the only path. The Padres look to have a very bright future, obviously don’t agree with this move but fans should be excited for the future.
Look, I am not saying it will be the same result, more that I am just saying that if the pieces are there, we cant be afraid to do it. A little pitching here and there, and they’re right in the mix. Truthfully, I hope they go .500ish, then make the playoff jump next year after getting an ace pitcher next winter. As long as the fans understand that while these moves accelerate the timeline, it doesnt jump the Pads to the front of the line. Dont jump ship when they don’t make the playoffs this year.
They don’t need to “win now” — they simply need to sustain a certain level of excitement, which will be very contagious. If things click this year, great. If the hitting clicks and the pitching stalls, well, that’s great too. Why are people being such downers at the BEGINNING of the baseball season? You have 6 months to become a cynic’s cynic. Why start now? If Tatis doesn’t play well he will get sent down. If he plays well he deserves to be up here. I want a happy Tatis and a happy Machado. If keeping Tatis up at the beginning of the season instills happiness in the team, keep up Tatis.
Good point Vermonster. Astute point. Imagine what could have happened if he had been allowed to start the season with the Braves.
They would’ve won 1st place in their division as they already did and lost a year on the backend. They were 6 games back of the brewers. And quite frankly acuna wasn’t all that great until the monster 2nd half. I don’t think this is the anecdotal argument you want here.
If they’d have won 2 more games, they’d have had home field in their series against the Dodgers. In Atlanta, they won a game; they didn’t in LA. 2 games was all it took to put us in a worse position against a superior team. This is a perfect anecdotal argument.
They didn’t expect to be there …when the service-time-management decision was made. Like the Jays with Guerrero this year …lol
If it was your money, I’m guessing you’d do exactly the same. And take your chances chasing homefield advantage. I agree that is worth chasing, and might have made a difference, but was it likely to be a serious consideration before the All Star break?
If he’s any good, the kid will get his money. The extra “year” of team control will probably bother his agent more
Yes he will get his money. Who says it will be from SDP?
I don’t know you if recall but acuna batted .249 in the first half and was more of a decent player than a guy who would’ve singlehandedly won you 2 more games out of what the 12 he wasn’t up for? He was an absolute monster in the second half but he wasn’t a huge impact player in the first half. That was albies. Who was awful in the second half.
This kids numbers are mediocre expect for half a season….yet ranked top 3 prospect? Now being brought up when he hasnt even shown he can reproduce last years production in AA? This is what happens when you have a last place organization that burns up prospects by mismanaging their work load and progression. Should be fun to watch this trainwreck happen get your popcorn only a matter of time to mannys attitute pollutes the rest of the roster esspecially the youngsters.
Your name is fitting
Still yet to present any real facts about your team. In the last 20 years name a star player than was drafted and developed by the padres? This kid is vastly overrated because of who his father was and like i said gonna be great to watch this blow up
Hmm. All four public scouting organizations say the same thing … Fangraphs has him at a future value of $70 million. Guess that even though they’ve all seen him, multiple times,, they’re all connected to all of the major league organizations and use them as sources … those who do this for a living .. they’re all wrong and you’re right.
We’ll all watch as he develops into a star … and it’ll be great to watch you disappear.
The current regime is not responsible for the previous regimes’ ineptitude at drafting.
His father wasn’t even all that great. He was a quality player to be sure but he never once made an All Star team. It’s not like Guerrero.
The last 20 years? Ok, I’ll bite. Corey Kluber. Anthony Rizzo. Chase Headley. Jake Peavy. Trea Turner. Khalil Greene was a terrific player….I mean, this is just off the top of my head.
Padresfanatic — Why must you insult, insult, insult? Do you talk like this to people in person? You probably just kiss people’s asses, don’t you? You questioned someone’s age in another post. It is you that acts like a child — like a self-destructive bullying child.
Cry about it.
I’d rather meet you outside by the flagpole. Show you what we do to bullies round these parts.
Ooooooh Internet threats!
LOL
I’ll referee. I got a thousand bucks on Trillary. Wait that’s a conflict of interest. Who’ll referee? I wanna make a thousand bucks.
Dang sounds like you had a big cup of haterade!
Nah just a cup of “keeping it real” if you guys think adding a guy like manny all of sudden gives you 25+ wins you guys are even more hopeless than i originally thought. This is at best a 4th place team in this divsion maybe worse if arizona can rebound from injuries and losing players like goldy.
Nope!
Well, I personally think that Machado will win 134 games for us singlehandedly. But then I wake up in a Russian gulag. Wait, where am I? Oh, the guy with the cattle prod says I’m in Guantanamo. Cuba sounds nice. Hey, I know her. Didn’t she run for president?
Yay! Maybe third place this year!
So it doesn’t seem like Preller is all that interested in playing the service time game. This is a third year in a row (Margot, Lucchesi, Tatis) that he has decided against it. Plus he called up Urias last year basically when he felt like it even though he was already well past the Super Two cutoff and still had a ways to go before he would have his free agency pushed back by a year.
As it is, Urias may be called up no earlier than May 16th in order for the Padres to lock down control of his 2025 season.
Forgetting all the argument of whether it should be done or not. I wonder when the last elite prospect was called up to play day 1 of the major league season without taking an AB at the AAA level. Machado went straight from AA to the big leagues but the orioles waited until they gained another year of control. I’m pretty confident it’s been a long time.
Well, there was Shohei Ohtani last year
Well, yeah but he was a Japanese professional.
I think the Padres are doing their fans a disservice. Whether he’s good enough to play now or not, AJ Preller has to do what’s best for the Padres. Losing a full year of control over what could be a superstar is definitely not good for the Padres. I’m sure Fernando Tatis is happy, but if he actually does become a star he’s going to be even happier when he can cash in a year early, and the fans (who Preller is actually working for) are going to be decidedly UNhappy. The players union can cry all they want when teams hold their young studs back for a few weeks, but they signed off on that deal when they agreed to the contract. For a few weeks without him, the team can have him for a full year after he’s fully developed. The question is, who pays Preller’s salary? It sure isn’t the players. It’s the team. And it’s not only Preller’s option, but his responsibility, to do what’s best for the TEAM. The Jays are doing it with Vlad, and good for them. The Mets SHOULD do it with Alonso, but I don’t know if they will. The players are going to get plenty of perks and boatloads of cash in their careers; I think the fans should get a GM who should do whatever is best for the team.
I agree with you for the most part. The system isn’t right how it is for the players. They get the shaft and I recognize that but doesn’t mean the team should just give away the advantage that is currently given to them as the rules are written. If you’re competitors are using it to their advantage why wouldn’t you? 2 weeks as a rookie isn’t worth a whole year in the middle of their prime. I know people will attempt to justify it and it’ll make your average fan real happy now but it just isn’t. It’s essentially a 15 day DL stint you’re losing. Remember those? 15 days for an ENTIRE year. Should be a relatively easy call and it has been for 95% of the teams out there.
Your*
Mike Trout went directly from AA to the majors with zero service time manipulation, although he did spend a month the next season at AAA, where he just decimated the league.
This promotion may well prove to be the “MVP” decision of the year. Two hits in his first game. Go Tatis!
This promotion may well prove to be the bonehead decision of the year. The Padres are giving up a full year of Tatis in his prime for a few weeks of Tatis as a rookie. Tatis should be happy, but Padres fans everywhere should be furious. Preller is supposed to do what’s best for the team; I don’t see how 2 weeks now for a full year later is a good deal. Players can cry all they want about this rule, but the union signed off on it. MLB GMs not only have the option to hold stud rookies back in this situation, they have a responsibility to do it. That is clearly what’s best for the team, and the GM works for the team. If I were the Padres owner I would have made it clear to Preller that if Tatis opens with the big club, Preller would open on the unemployment line. Horrible move, even if Tatis turns out to be as good as advertised. In fact, it’s a horrible move ESPECIALLY if Tatis turns out to be as good as advertised.
Don’t tell me what I should be. If you want to be furious, that is your choice. I am ecstatic and so are most fans. So, go over to the grumpy corner or the furious corner, or whatever corner you wish. Don’t drag us down with you.
It’s only the uninformed fans that are ecstatic. Those of us who actually understand baseball know that this move was completely idiotic. Go sit in the corner, put on this dunce cap and stay after school so that you can write on the blackboard a hundred times “I will not question the authority of a superior mind.”
From today’s story on Tatis in the U-T …
“We’ll extend him … he won’t reach free agency.” — Peter Seidler
enewspaper.sandiegouniontribune.com/desktop/sdut/d…
You mean like how they would extend Justin Upton and Freddy Galvis?
Come on now…you very well know now that Tatis is homegrown longterm vs those two players you mentioned. Again Seidler and crew have made good on steadily increasing the Padres budget the past couple years…so when hes quoted as saying that…I tend to believe because of Myers, Hosmer, and Machado. If those 3 players didn’t get signed…then I see your point…but seidler and crew have brought the budget line up vs past owners who never invested a dime in international or reg FA.
Hosmer and Machado were not homegrown per se, but they show willingness that Seidler can and will spend big boy prices when push comes to shove. Oh btw, those two will both be off the books when Tatis bump in pay comes to fruition…for those worried he will push past their capable spending limit.
Myers and Hosmer will be off the books I meant to say by the time Jr.’s bump in pay is in line.
1. Tatis isn’t homegrown.
2. Upton and Galvis absolutely do demonstrate the folly of acting under the assumption that a player will sign an extension. You obviously didn’t learn from the Galvis fiasco so maybe this time.
1st, the White Sox had Tatis Jr for a cup a coffee…padres without a doubt are the ones who have developed and will continue to into what he is and will become…thus hes their homegrown..
2nd, Galvis was always a short term/give Tatis a chance to not be rushed option…but throw both scenarios when he doesnt get re-signed.
3rd…you still have nothing to dispute that Seidler is trending the budget status quo or up since hes taken the proverbial bull by the horns as lead investor…the crux argument in any chance Tatis jr has a chance of being re-signed…which he does as long as Seidler is still in charge.
1. The literal definition of “homegrown” means the team drafted him or signed him as an international prospect.
2. You said multiple times that Galvis had a good chance of being re-upped and that he fit with the tram long-term and now he “was always a short term option?” Your legs must be tired from all that backpedaling.
3. Seidler increasing the budget doesn’t necessarily mean Tatis will have any interest in extending, or that the Padres will be willing to meet his asking price.
Wanna bet?
1) home”grown” also means you are developing the player…white Sox never gave it a chance…thus the regret in trading him to the Padres in the first place.
2) you’re doing it again…you’re trying to pull things from the ether…while I did say there was a chance to re-sign Galvis I never said for longterm. You show me the quote where I did and I’ll come correct as I have in past…but again pulling from the ether doesn’t count.
3) It’s true that Tatis Jr might not want to extend with padres just as true as it is there’s a chance that he does. The onus is now on Seidler to re-sign because of his recent quote…but based of the past three years of the Padres spending it would seem when seidler is set to make something happen he will do so in ernest. You say Tatis may not want to extend, but again since you’re playing what ifs… what if he does?
1. Nope. In order to be “homegrown” the player has to literally be drafted/originally signed by the team. That’s it. You can look at any “each team’s best homegrown player” list and it will only include guys who meet the definition I gave you.”
2. Oh boy, here we go.
“Galvis has made many a Padres pitcher very confident while solidifying a position that has been devoid of competent play for a good decade or more,,,and he might be re-upped for a couple more seasons (Tatis might be moved to 3rd).”
“Galvis was about trying to stabilize a position thats long been a detriment to the team…and the Padres are already talking about theres a chance they re-sign him. Tatis may or not be the SS of the future…”
etc…
Oh and Galvis signed for 1/$5m. Preller did NOT have to trade for him to be able to sign him if he wanted to.
3. If he extends, he extends. But there’s a whole lot of “if’s” in that situation. Having control of Tatis’ age 26 season if they had started him in the minors for 15 days was not an “if.” It was guaranteed. And extending him after doing that still would have been a possibility. The SF Giants extended Buster Posey after manipulating his service time, for example.
1) then if you ask any chi Sox fans or mlb scout if they honestly believe Tatis is their homegrown…they’ll all fully agree with you, right?
2) Im a lil impressed you went thru the trouble…but I see “couple more seasons,” “Tatis may not be SS of future”…but NOTHING about longterm in any of that for Galvis. As you sifted through all of my responses…there was never going to be anything mentioned about longterm with Galvis…and more about if it made sense for a Galvis re-sign for at most a COUPLE seasons to 1) give Tatis to develop, 2) and further see if Tatis thrived at the SS position and or outgrow it and move to 3B as Kyle Glaser and other scouts thought was still possible at the time.
Obviously when Galvis didn’t get re-signed after the season, the Padres felt Tatis was their SS of the future…but nobody knew just how soon he’d be up with big league team.
Either way…”longterm” was never word I would’ve mentioned or used in any of that lengthy convo I had previously with you and that’s why it wasn’t quoted from me.
3) pitchers are still adapting to Tatis..I’ve already stated that I think he will get sent down eventually (and I still do).
I understand that you think there is a potential mlbpa grievance if he does get sent down…but the precedent for the Padres and their players has been well established with guys like Renfroe, F. Reyes, Cordero, Asuaje, Urias, etc…if you stagnate at the big leagues and have more to master in minors…you will get sent down.
Tatis will eventually slump as any player (great, solid, or not)…its at that point the Padres have many an option…being sent down as many other players in past have done is one of them. It’s going to be very hard to file a legit grievance unless he plays lights out throughout his stay.
Saying all that, it is my opinion the Padres putting the onus on Tatis to play solid throughout and if he cant break out of a slump quickly enough…they’ll end up sending him down. I’m not saying immediately after a slump…I’m saying after hes been given ample time to try and adjust. If Tatis never slumps for an extended period of time…then he deserves to be up at the big league level anyways first 15 days and all. Well just agree to disagree on that one…because your automatically assuming hes gone after his rookie contract…but I do not.
1. This isn’t an opinion piece. It’s the literal definition. Whether or not they or anyone agree with me doesn’t matter. Homegrown = originally drafted or signed by the team. This isn’t me talking.
2. Lol just grasping at straws because I exposed you for your debilitating wrong calls. Whether or not you explicitly said “long-term” changes nothing about my initial point. You NEVER act under the assumption that the player will sign an extension unless he already has. And Galvis is not the type of player you trade for to get a leg-up on signing him.
3. Absolutely the MLBPA will come after the Padres if they send a top prospect down for service time purposes if he has already made it to the Majors and shown that he belongs. But I’m thinking the front office realizes this and doesn’t care. I mean if I realize it they have no excuse not to and as they demonstrated last year with Joey Lucchesi and the year before with Manuel Margot, they aren’t interested in service time manipulation.
I never said he doesn’t deserve to be at the big league level. Bryant and Acuña also deserved to be at the big league level. And their teams turned out just fine sending them down.
“Well just agree to disagree on that one…your automatically assuming hes gone after his rookie contract…but I do not.”
1. No we won’t agree to disagree, I’m right.
2. You’re*
3. I am not automatically assuming anything. I am a fan of guarantees. If they send Tatis down for 15 days they are guaranteed to control him for 2025. Nothing guarantees that he will or won’t sign an extension.
Tatis never played a game in the White Sox system.
I know. He still isn’t technically “homegrown.”
He never played a game in the Sox system. He’s 100% homegrown. The Sox did no developing of Tatis. I don’t see any argument for saying he isn’t homegrown. The only thing the white Sox did was sign the contract.
“The only thing the white Sox did was sign the contract.”
That’s all they had to do. Tatis isn’t homegrown. Plain and simple.
1) Seems your stuck on the “home”part of the word while totally disregarding the “grown” part…which does actually incorporate some development. That is fact not opinion…we’ll agree to disagree again.
2) Only thing you exposed is that after all that sifting…it is like i tried to tell you, i mentioned nothing about longterm for Galvis. You talk about me backpedaling, but sounds like the only one doing that is you:
“Whether or not you explicitly said “long-term” changes nothing about my initial point.”
That is the problem when speaking as if you truly believe everything you say is actually correct:
“No we won’t agree to disagree, I’m right”
…when clearly that is always not the case.
…and btw, i never assumed that Galvis was an automatic re-sign just that there was a chance…just like i never assumed Tatis jr automatically gets extended. Your preaching “never assume” to me but once again there will be no quote from me where i did.
3) If you spoke in a tone with less certainties…then i could follow some of your logic…but when you never use words such as possibly, likely, seemingly, etc…you come across as if your assumptions trump all and then you start to backpedal because all of the sudden you didnt mean it that way.
I get that you want Tatis to be guaranteed another year (as do I fwiw)…all im saying is there’s still a chance.
As fans of a team, there is no control of a front office’s decisions. You want another guarantee tho…ok…half empty vs half full arguments wont have an end game until his final year comes to fruition. Some will choose to enjoy to smoke em while you got em…while others will not.
“Seems your stuck on the “home”part of the word while totally disregarding the “grown” part…which does actually incorporate some development.”
1. You’re*
2. Again, this isn’t me talking. It’s the literal definition. Don’t like it? Take it up with the people who write baseball dictionaries.
“we’ll agree to disagree again.”
No we won’t. There is no agreeing or disagreeing with the literal definition of “homegrown.” You don’t see me saying that the Earth is flat and when you point out that it isn’t you don’t see me saying “We’ll just agree to disagree.”
“Only thing you exposed is that after all that sifting…it is like i tried to tell you, i mentioned nothing about longterm for Galvis. You talk about me backpedaling, but sounds like the only one doing that is you:”
Stop throwing red herrings out there. My argument was the folly of acting under the assumption that a player will sign an extension, not the amount of time you wanted Galvis to be extended. “Were just going to consider me lost cause because I actually see Galvis having a decent chance of being re-upped” Those were your words…
“…and btw, i never assumed that Galvis was an automatic re-sign just that there was a chance…just like i never assumed Tatis jr automatically gets extended. Your preaching “never assume” to me but once again there will be no quote from me where i did.”
Well you sure talked like he was an automatic re-sign. And you completely ignored the fact that there was also a chance to sign him WITHOUT trading for him first. Exact same outcome, except one lets the Padres keep Enyel de los Santos. In much the same way, there is a chance that Tatis doesn’t sign an extension now and there was also a chance that he would sign one if they had held him down for 15 days. Buster Posey signed a team friendly extension with SFG after having his own service time manipulated, for example. And again, you’re*.
“If you spoke in a tone with less certainties…then i could follow some of your logic…but when you never use words such as possibly, likely, seemingly, etc…you come across as if your assumptions trump all and then you start to backpedal because all of the sudden you didnt mean it that way.”
You’re putting words in my mouth again. I always acknowledged the possibility that Tatis signs an extension. I’m not interested in “possibilities.” I’m interested in guarantees. Nothing is guaranteed in this situation except the Padres gaining control of Tatis’ 2025 season by holding him down for a measly 15 days. Not half the season, just 15 days.
Oh by the way…
“Him being with the Padres ( because he was traded on them,) taking a leadership role to the youngsters while offering solid defense, and basically fitting in with the current new culture trying to be established has every reason why the brass would want to keep him for more years.”
There’s your quote for where you said that Galvis fit for more than just one year. You said “keep him for more years.” Not “keep him for another year.”
Here’s another recent quote where i already acknowledged that but i guess you missed it:
“As you sifted through all of my responses…there was never going to be anything mentioned about longterm with Galvis…and more about if it made sense for a Galvis re-sign for at most a COUPLE seasons to 1) give Tatis to develop, 2) and further see if Tatis thrived at the SS position and or outgrow it and move to 3B as Kyle Glaser and other scouts thought was still possible at the time.”
You’re missing the point. The Padres didn’t have to trade for Galvis to sign him IF that was the route they wanted to go. He signed for 1/$5m. The Padres could have beaten that without blinking.
By the way what is your definition of “long-term?” More than three? More than five?
Buddy, sometimes you drift off many a tangent and i honestly cannot follow ya.
You tell me “I’m not interested in “possibilities.” I’m interested in guarantees. ”
So based off YOUR premise (and as you stated before with Tatis and i agreed)…there was no guarantee that Galvis wouldve signed with Padres for a one year deal, no?
We can go only off of knowns (guarantees as you call them)…for better or worse, we know that Tatis was the direct causation of a James Shields trade (no ifs or buts about it…ANYTHING else is pure speculation) …and we also know De los Santos guaranteed Galvis for his last year of his contract. What was never known during Galvis year with Padres is how far or close the Padres saw Tatis on their major league roster.
Based on the padres not re-signing Galvis, its very possible that it wasnt just if the money aligned up…but also that they saw Tatis much sooner then some scouts and some of us fans did. Apparently combination of dominican winter league and his spring training solidified the Padres belief he was worth the gamble.
“So based off YOUR premise (and as you stated before with Tatis and i agreed)…there was no guarantee that Galvis wouldve signed with Padres for a one year deal, no?”
No there wasn’t and that’s why the trade was stupid. The only reason to make that trade was to eliminate the possibility of him signing elsewhere. The Padres lost 96 games with him. They could have lost 96 games without him.
“We can go only off of knowns (guarantees as you call them)…for better or worse, we know that Tatis was the direct causation of a James Shields trade (no ifs or buts about it…ANYTHING else is pure speculation)”
What Preller should have done there was not sign Shields and then offer Tatis more money than whatever the White Sox offered to sign him in the first place. I believe they signed him for $500k. Preller could have signed him for $5m and it still would have cost less money than signing Shields and trading him for Tatis while eating half the remaining money on his contract. And the fact that the White Sox were willing to trade Tatis for a negative value piece doesn’t suggest that he would have been hard to pry away in a trade for someone else. White Sox wanted a SP. Padres had other SP’s. Including ones who didn’t have negative trade value like Shields did.
“Based on the padres not re-signing Galvis, its very possible that it wasnt just if the money aligned up…but also that they saw Tatis much sooner then some scouts and some of us fans did. Apparently combination of dominican winter league and his spring training solidified the Padres belief he was worth the gamble.”
And that all still would have happened if the Padres never traded for Freddy Galvis. They’d also still have De Los Santos.
“And the fact that the White Sox were willing to trade Tatis for a negative value piece doesn’t suggest that he would have been hard to pry away in a trade for someone else.”
This is the speculation i was referring to…
“And that all still would have happened if the Padres never traded for Freddy Galvis. They’d also still have De Los Santos.”
We can safely say that now but my whole point is that all these things happened AFTER the fact. Before Tatis had his winter league and recent spring training stint…there’s was a very real belief and what was originally expected by many was that he was to start at tripple A.
“This is the speculation i was referring to…”
The White Sox were willing to trade Tatis for a negative value piece. They didn’t care about him. If not for Shields Preller would have traded something else to get him. But again, the smart move would have been to sign Tatis in the first place and not outbid the Cubs on Shieids.
“We can safely say that now but my whole point is that all these things happened AFTER the fact. Before Tatis had his winter league and recent spring training stint…there’s was a very real belief and what was originally expected by many was that he was to start at tripple A.”
You misunderstood my argument (although knowing you it was probably intentional). The Padres didn’t have to trade for Galvis to be able to sign him for 2019 if that was the route they had chosen to go. They also didn’t have to trade for Galvis in order for Tatis to develop as hoped. He signed for 1/$5m with a team he had never played for before. That is not a guy you trade for to gain an advantage in signing. And there was no advantage anyway.
“You misunderstood my argument (although knowing you it was probably intentional)”
You’re funny…that was almost a zing, zang, zoom to me…almost…
Two things…1) i consider 5 or 5+ years as a long term contract.
2) Did ya at least smile a lil bit when Jr crushed his moonshot against the Dbacks last night? Even just a lil maybe?
And yet you still refuse to acknowledge that the Padres could have signed Galvis without trading for him.
1) Fair enough.
2) Saw it live. It’s really gonna suck not getting to see him do that in 2025.
1) at this point its neither here nor there…but i get that you were disappointed with that deal.
2) do the padres really need to bring back the “keep the faith” motto for ya? Moores, Moorad, and Dee are gone ya know…Tatis might actually value that at least this owner is legitimately trying and has some cajones to back it up with some cashflow…something that honestly could not be said before.
1. It’s very much here and there. You repeated ad nauseum that the trade was justifiable because Galvis could be re-signed. But that would only be an excuse if the Padres had to trade for him in order to be able to sign him. They signed Machado despite him having never played for the Padres before. They’d have had no problem doing the same with Galvis, again, if they wanted to.
2. That would all still be possible if they had held him down for 15 days.
1) now you misunderstand me …because the Galvis trade has long since sailed was my point…and just because manny machado signed with SD…doesnt mean freddy galvis was going to (especially when the padres we now know had a much faster timetable for Tatis joining the ML team as their longterm SS)
2) “That would all still be possible if…”
Well unless you have some crystal ball that no one else does…and while it can no longer happen for the first 15 days…then yes, even still…it IS still possible to gain those days back is the overall point.
1. My point was that the trade was stupid and that the thought of the Padres possibly signing him didn’t justify the trade because they didn’t have to trade for him to do that. Signing Manny Machado does demonstrate that the Padres are capable of signing premium players who do not previously have any loyalty to the team or the city.
2. Unless Tatis explicitly says “If they manipulate my service time I will 100% move on as soon as I am able to do so” then extending him would have still been a possibility even with the service time manipulation. And good luck sending down a leaguewide top 10 prospect who has already made it to the Majors and played even decently without getting hit with a grievance from the MLBPA.
Preller should be fired for this move. He’s supposed to do what’s best for the team. I don’t see how giving up a year of Tatis in his prime is worth getting a few weeks of Tatis as a rookie. We’ll see how you Padres fans feel about this move when Tatis jumps ship a year earlier than he would have otherwise, and all you and Preller can do is watch it happen. This is a complete disaster for the Padres. Nice going, Preller.
Fired? Oy vey.
Preller should be fired for putting the best team on the field? That’s…uh…an odd take.
The isn’t putting the best team on the field. Tatis will be gone a year early now, thus making the team worse.
In six years? Let’s talk about this in six years. Teams should be putting the best product on the field right now. This service time manipulation stuff is absolutely anathema to putting the best team on the field. It’s garbage. Kudos to the Padres for refusing to play along with this kind of anti-player nonsense and instead putting the best players on the field.
It’s what everyone does. The Padres FO is putting themselves at a direct disadvantage by not holding Tatis down the first 15 days. Yes, the MLBPA should have addressed this issue in the last CBA negotiation and yes they likely will in the next one but until then, the Padres owe it to their fans to maximize the utility from top players like Tatis Jr.
I have a strange feeling he’ll accumulate more than two hits in 2025. And now it will be for someone else.
Enough padres fan! You have lost your talking privileges and I’m going to give you a spankerin.’ Go in to the bathroom and get that bar of soap. You have one hour. And I want to see your teeth clenched on the that bar!
LOL that’s cute.