This is the first post of MLBTR’s annual Offseason in Review series, in which we take stock of every team’s winter dealings.
It was another low-key winter in Motown as the Tigers continued their rebuild process.
Major League Signings
- Tyson Ross, SP: One year, $5.75MM
- Jordy Mercer, SS: One year, $5.25MM
- Matt Moore, SP: One year, $2.5MM
- Josh Harrison, 2B/3B/OF: One year, $2MM
- Total spend: $15.5MM
Trades And Claims
- Claimed IF/OF Brandon Dixon from Reds
- Claimed LHP Jose Fernandez from Blue Jays
- Claimed RHP Reed Garrett from Rangers in the Rule 5 Draft
Notable Minor League Signings
- Louis Coleman, Gordon Beckham, Bobby Wilson, Pete Kozma, Harold Castro, Hector Sanchez, Eduardo Paredes
Notable Losses
- Victor Martinez (retired), Jose Iglesias, Alex Wilson, James McCann, Francisco Liriano, Mike Gerber, Kaleb Cowart (Tigers claimed Cowart off waivers from Mariners but lost him on a subsequent waiver claim by Angels)
[Detroit Tigers Depth Chart | Detroit Tigers Payroll Outlook]
Needs Addressed
Jordy Mercer and Josh Harrison have spent virtually their entire MLB careers as teammates. That connection will continue for at least part of the 2019 season, as the former Pirates each signed on to form Detroit’s new middle infield duo. The Tigers turned to Mercer to fill the hole left behind by free agent shortstop Jose Iglesias, then later inked Harrison to take over as the everyday second baseman. Such names as Troy Tulowitzki and former Tiger Ian Kinsler were also considered by the team to fill the middle infield gaps.
Mercer and Harrison were inked to relatively inexpensive one-year deals, giving the Tigers flexibility should youngsters such as Dawel Lugo, Isaac Paredes, or Willi Castro force the issue for playing time as early as this summer. By that same token, Mercer and Harrison could both be trade deadline chips if the Tigers find a contending team eager for infield help.
In Harrison’s case, he has particular upside after struggling through an injury-plagued 2018. Harrison also didn’t perform terribly well in 2015 or 2016, though he was an All-Star as recently as 2017. The 31-year-old doesn’t have to do a ton to outplay his $2.5MM contract, however, and Harrison’s overall value could improve if the Tigers shield him from tough right-handed pitching every once in a while. Harrison also could provide extra depth at third base or the corner outfield, though he played almost exclusively as a second baseman last season. That flexibility makes it particularly easy to imagine him as a mid-season trade candidate.
While Harrison himself provides some versatility, his addition moves Niko Goodrum into a superutility role, allowing the Tigers to deploy him all around the diamond as the situation warrants. Veterans Gordon Beckham and Pete Kozma are also at Spring Training on minor league deals, fighting with Ronny Rodriguez to win a utility infield job and potentially pushing Goodrum into seeing more corner outfield time, rather than infield duty. Goodrum could also see substantial action at first base, since Miguel Cabrera is likely to receive the lion’s share of DH at-bats. (Backup catcher John Hicks could again factor at the first base position as well.)
As they did last winter in signing Mike Fiers and Francisco Liriano, the Tigers added a pair of low-cost veteran arms to the rotation in Tyson Ross and Matt Moore. Ross turned in a useful 2018 season with the Padres and Cardinals in 2018, posting a 4.15 ERA and 1.97 K/BB rate over 149 2/3 innings. It’s probably too much to expect that Ross can recapture his mid-decade All-Star form (prior to two lost seasons due to injury), though he should give Detroit some solid innings.
Moore hopes to follow in Ross’ footsteps with a bounce-back season of his own, as Moore has badly struggled in each of the last two seasons, to the point of being relegated to the Rangers’ bullpen last season. It wasn’t long ago that Moore was one of the game’s most vaunted pitching prospects, so the Tigers are hoping the change of scenery can revive Moore’s career.
Questions Remaining
It seemed as if the Tigers were simply ready to move on from Iglesias, as a case could be made that re-signing Iglesias (10 fWAR over 656 career games) would’ve provided more value than adding Mercer (7.8 fWAR through 821 career appearances with Pittsburgh). Mercer is only the slightly better hitter of the two, and Iglesias is the decidedly better fielder. Considering that Iglesias ended up landing only a minor league deal from the Reds, spending $5.25MM on Mercer seems like something of an overpay.
This being said, it could be that the Tigers simply felt Mercer had more future trade value, given that they’d spent much of 2018 unsuccessfully trying to find a trade partner for Iglesias. Plus, when a club is still in the relatively early stages of a rebuilding plan, it’s hard to argue too strenuously about which veteran was or wasn’t signed to a one-year contract. Mercer, Harrison, Ross, and Moore could all very well be playing on different teams by September, and the Tigers’ focus for 2019 will again be on seeing which of its young players can emerge.
To this end, catcher James McCann was non-tendered after a rough campaign, wrapping up his four-year run as the team’s most frequently used backstop and giving the Tigers a chance to see what they have in Grayson Greiner. (Both Greiner and Hicks may ultimately be keeping the catcher’s spot warm for prospect Jake Rogers in a year or two.) The Tigers didn’t add any veteran outfield help, preferring to stick with incumbents JaCoby Jones and Mikie Mahtook in center field, and giving prospect Christin Stewart a full shot as the everyday left fielder.
Perhaps the most notable element of the Tigers’ offseason was what they didn’t do — namely, trade any of their notable veterans. It probably isn’t surprising that Michael Fulmer and Shane Greene weren’t moved in the wake of down years, as the Tigers don’t want to sell low. Swingman Blaine Hardy drew some interest from Oakland, though nothing came together. All three of those pitchers will very likely still be in a Detroit jersey on Opening Day. None of this group can said to be premium trade chips, and the slowed free agent market also undoubtedly hampered Detroit’s trade negotiations. For instance, if you’re the Athletics, why deal for Hardy when you could simply sign a similar type of pitcher in free agency without having to give anything up in return?
This could also explain why the Tigers non-tendered Alex Wilson, who was projected to earn a modest $2.8MM salary in arbitration. It wasn’t a high figure for an unspectacular but solid reliever like Wilson, though since the Tigers considered him expendable, they decided to simply part ways before the arb deadline since no trade interest could be located.
The most prominent figure in Detroit trade rumors, of course, has been slugger Nicholas Castellanos. The Braves, Mets, and Dodgers were all linked to Castellanos at various points this winter, though none were willing to meet the high asking price the Tigers placed on the outfielder. Detroit was looking for a prospect (or prospects) that would top the compensatory first-round sandwich pick they could receive next winter if Castellanos receives and rejects a qualifying offer and then signs elsewhere. Castellanos himself expressed a desire to be moved before the start of camp, but nothing appealing ever came across the desk of GM Al Avila.
As with the Tigers’ lower-level trade candidates, Castellanos’ market was undoubtedly harmed by the presence of so many other outfielders available in free agency (or in other trades). Furthermore, while Castellanos has posted some fine numbers (.285/.336/.495 in 1790 PA, 67 homers) over the last three seasons, his bat isn’t elite enough that teams are willing to overlook his poor right field defense. To this end, it’s interesting that all of Castellanos’ known suitors were NL teams, though it’s fair to assume that some American League clubs also made inquiries.
If Castellanos keeps up his hitting production, he’ll still get some looks at the trade deadline, and his market will only grow if he becomes even borderline passable as a right fielder. Still, it seems like the Tigers will need to lower expectations about what they’ll be able to receive in a Castellanos trade, given how bat-only players have become far less sought-after than they were even only a few years ago. Topping a QO draft pick may not be feasible — if that’s even a reasonable guide to go by. Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press recently observed that the Tigers may not end up issuing Castellanos a qualifying offer in the fall, as he could accept that one-year deal (which will be in excess of $17.9MM) rather than taking his chances on the open market with draft compensation attached.
Castellanos has recently expressed interest in a contract extension to remain in Detroit, a possibility the team has pursued previously. With Cabrera already locked into DH duty through the 2023 season, though, there isn’t much room for the Tigers to carry another bat-only player over the long term. Since Avila has intimated that the Tigers won’t look to really boost payroll until after the 2020 season, keeping Castellanos at a hefty salary doesn’t seem to fit Detroit’s timeline.
2019 Season Outlook
It looks to be another long year for Detroit fans. Even in a weak AL Central, the Tigers aren’t likely to make much noise. Perhaps the club can hope to top the ghastly 64-98 record it has posted in successive seasons, but it’d be hard to expect more than modest improvement given the present state of the roster
How would you grade the Tigers’ offseason moves? (Link for app users.)
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
How come fWAR is used over rWAR, rWAR is more accurate as it depicts what actually happened and not what should. Great article though.
I prefer fWAR over bWAR.
bWAR version, doesnt value on base-running and defense and bases pitchers on ERA, rather than FIP.
fWAR, generally, is also a tougher grader than bWAR. Think most players’ have lower fWAR, than bWAR.
For those who hate WAR, and heads’ are spinning:
fWAR is the abbreviation for Fangraphs’ WAR
bWAR is the abbreviation for Bbref WAR
rWAR does value defense and base running. The difference from fWAR for position players is the defensive component. Fangraphs uses UZR for defense while Baseball Reference uses DRS. Baseballmay be better for ca Prospectus’s WARP
As I was saying, BP’s WARP might be better for catchers as it adds in framing where the others bury it in the pitching valuations.
ERA is a more accurate evaluator of a pitcher’s value. FIP is useful for predictions, but it’s fundamentally a peripheral stat, like wOBA for hitters. Besides, some pitchers have consistently outperformed their FIP (e.g. Julio Teheran, Miguel Gonzalez, Jeremy Jeffress) where some consistently underperform (eg. Jeff Samardzija, James Paxton) due to their pitching styles.
It’s best to evaluate a pitchers value combining all of the available stat. There is no one stat that adequately estimates value. Have to combine them to get a better picture
I like your Avatar, it reminds me of Pink Floyds Relics Album Cover. I know it is Alfred E. Newman but it always reminds me of Pink Floyd.
Now back to Baseball:
If the Tigers pitchers can recover & have good/breakout years they may surprise everyone.
Zimmerman was good in the National League but has had health issues since coming to Detroit. A decent season from him would be nice.
Fulmer has also had health issues. If he can have a good injury free season & Zimmerman now we are moving forward.
Norris also has had injury after injury since coming to Detroit. A Breakout Season from him along with Fulmer & Zimmerman & now they would be looking good.
Boyd has been progressing very nice. If he continues to improve along with the other three producing, now they are contenders.
Any one of Hardy, Moore or Ross having good or bounce back seasons & this team could go far.
But, that is an awful lot to all come together in one season, maybe too much of a dream. I think its going to be another long season for us Tigers Fans. But, I am a Tigers Fan, Win or Loose.
I have often wondered why the Tigers have So Many Injuries, especially to their Pitchers.
Go tigers!
Thank you for mentioning the Tigers, about whom the article was written. Lots of trouble with people staying on point on this site.
I would like to hear from all of those who graded the off-season a “C”.
Norris should go to the BP. His “Same pitch-Same place-Same speed” style is easily figured out 2nd time through the lineup, when he gets that far.
FIP says what likely should have happened and what you might expect to happen in the future. ERA says what did happen, regardless of how lucky or unlucky a pitcher was.
Arguing which is “better” is semantics.
Hang in there, Tiger fans! There’s a light at the end of every tunnel. It takes courage to do a full-scale rebuild.
Says the Yankees fan who’s never been thru a losing season BTW, the Yanks tanked to get Jeter.
Sheesh, why are Cubs fans so touchy?
Chicago residents.
X-It would have been nice to pick up one decent arm, or one good bat/outfielder. It should not take much to push any team in this division over the rest.
Don’t be surprised to see a decent trade at the deadline if the Tigers are close. Remember, they started off pretty hot last season, and all now have another year’s experience.
Being close at the break isn’t out of the realm of possibility, but shipping prospects is.
Miguel could probably buy the city of Detroit at this point
Miguel Castro could buy the city of Detroit at this point
Not much they could do. Free agent market was slow, which affected the trade market. The trade chips they have aren’t flawless, either.
As the season moves on and teams find real needs, injuries happen, etc. somebody will emerge for Casellanos and probably the new middle infielders.
I think Tigers got ahead of themselves when Jimmy ran the club. Unfortunately, it hurts you guys now with a small handful of prospect to fill voids. I seen this type of situation when Jim managed the Pirates and left town. No real prospects and gloom of a future.
Only difference between the 2 clubs, you guys will spend money and won’t see 21 years of losing. I think Tigers will be knocking on the door in 3 years. Indians system isn’t as strong and see them falling off the radar in a few years. White Sox I think are going to be a sleeper team in 2 years. Twins may surprise everyone by next year. This gives Tigers a chance to retool their system and look forward to the Trout sweepstakes. I just hope JaCoby Jones figures stuff out this year for you guys. I watched him play in my area (before being traded) and thought he had the potential to be a superstar. If he can settle in, I believe he can do some things for the Tigers.
Take a shot at the Bucs, at least get the number right lol.
20 years of losing that was stopped in 2013.
21 is still a good number in the Burgh.
Arriba arriba!
Overall reasonably good write up on the off season. Seen some who only have a passing knowledge of a team try to do this and fail miserably. I highly doubt the Tigers pass on making Castellanos a QO. He’ll reject it flat out unless there was a serious injury issue. Their asking price has hinged on that draft pick compensation. If they were even thinking of not making the QO they could have moved him by lowering their asking price.
The Iglesias situation is a bit puzzling. Have to think either something happened to make the Tigers balk at the idea of resigning him, or he expressed to them he wanted to play elsewhere. Otherwise, given the market and the Tiger’s need for a SS for at least 1-2 more seasons that resigning Iglesias made the most sense.
Jose Iglesias is one of the biggest steals this off-season:
Career: .270/.315/.363 over 7 major league seasons
Last season: .269/.310/.389
(Five homers, 48 RBI)
One of the best fielders, probably best FA shortstop.
Why did he get a minor league contract from the Reds?
Because he waited.
Iggy steal of the offseason yet couldn’t get a deal in the majors…. yah
Saber-metrics are killing players like Iggy. Great glove but can’t hit at all. Throw in a terrible teammate with little man syndrome and his career is over. All across the league this is gonna happen. Iggy couldn’t clutch hit, bunt, hint and run, or steal bases. Useless at the plate. You can sell his Tops card right about now.
Various rumors labeled Iggy as a bad teammate. Would have liked to hear more about that possibility.
I see Nick accepting the Q.O. if offered. Next off season could be as slow as this one.
So you see Nick going into FA against Mike Trout & Mooky Betts? Do you think he is suicidal or just stupid? Assuming he has a solid season and comes in closer to avg defense he will be one of the top OF FAs next yr. The following year he will be an also ran.
Good luck on finding a taker for Castellanos at the reported price. He simply isn’t worth a QO. Hold him and you get nothing. Trade him now and you can get something.
Unless he magically turns into a scratch defensive player, his ceiling will always be capped due to his glove. As noted in the article, bat first, no glove players are going for dirt cheap. Just look at someone like Cruz. A far superior hitter. Similar problems in the field. Much longer track record but a lot older. Personally, I would take Cruz over Castellanos on a one year deal BUT I wouldn’t fight you too hard if you preferred the opposite. Point is – both players are similar on a one year FA deal. What did Cruz get? $14M. To me, that’s the absolute ceiling that Castellanos would be looking at. $4M less than the anticipated QO. Even if Castellanos has his best offensive season ever, he would be fighting just to reach the point of being worthy of a QO.
On the other side, if he turns in 2014/2015 type season (or gets injured), the Tigers won’t find anyone to take him off their hands without the Tigers kicking in money.
Teams are right to hold the line. Giving up a 40FV prospect right now is about how I would value Castellanos. And a 40FV prospect is a lot better than paying his full salary and potentially getting nothing out of a deal this year.
I know it may not seem logical to some, but maybe the tigers just want to keep him? Maybe they’re the one whose bluffing this whole rumor mill? Of course they would take a ridiculous offer that no one has proposed yet. I find it funny that no other fans want him, but most tiger fans want to extend him. Go Tigers!
Castellanos has the following performances
2014 (22) – 0.4 fWAR
2015 (23) – 0.5 fWAR
2016 (24) – 2.4 fWAR
2017 (25) – 1.6 fWAR
2018 (26) – 3.0 fWAR
A 40FV player is a scrub. A future utility / bench / cheap middle relief / organizational depth guy.
Castellanos is averaging 2.3 fWAR over the past 3 years, had a 3.0 fWAR year last year and just turned 27.
If you’re offering that as a GM, the Tigers tell jokes about you to the other 28 MLB front offices.
Nick has a higher fWAR than Bryce and was a better in RF by every metric. Bryce found a nice contract, the Tigers don’t need to give Nick away.
Barring a much stronger year in the field or a monster year at the plate, Castellanos would likely take the $18 mill. Why? Then he could enter his age 28 season as a free agent without costing his new team a draft pick. That’s will greatly increase his marketability. The Tigers will trade him this summer, probably to replace a big bat lost to a playoff team for the season.
Castellanos was the worst OF this past year but improved over his previous numbers. Harper was the second worst and showed major decline. Please tell me again how a bat only player has little value. I am not saying his value is comparable to Harper. I am saying, as a 26-27 year old, his ability to improve his numbers is much greater than Cruz. If I don’t get what I expect for Nick, I would give the QO, and if he accepts, I have another year to make a trade. It’s not like the team can’t afford the QO.
Harper has name value for sell ticket and jersey. Bat? Glove? Nope! Name! Castellanos should hire a press and marketing team if he wants big dollar. Perform good and do big lights media off field. Baseball is love for me. Maybe obsess disease. But for most others, it is just something to watch for light entertainment. Contract Value come from casual fan attention attract.
Defensive metrics require at least 2 full years to stabilize. Harper’s sprint speed is solid and his arm is fine. He also produced 3.5 fWAR last year, is younger, and averages 4.5 fWAR per season.
So Harper averages 4.5 fWAR and Castellanos averages 2.3 fWAR (if you throw out his two dismal first seasons). There’s an enormous gap between the two.
Yes, which is why you can’t declare Nick a horrid RF after only 1 yr playing the position. Nick was learning the position and, more importantly, the unique nuances of the position at each ballpark. His odds of improving to avg/below avg is much better than Harper who has played the position for years.
>> “How would you grade the Tigers’ offseason moves?”
Pass
You feel better now?
F
The Tigers failed to make any effort to put a respectable team on the field.
Even if they were going to trade any newly signed free agents, that would at least move them closer to contending in the future. There were plenty of bargains to be had on the market this winter- there still are- but they sat it out.
I don’t understand how you can come to that conclusion this early in the year. First of all, maybe they tried pursuing some of the other FA’s and it just didn’t work out financially,team needs,or by choice. What are they suppose to do? Try to sign Manny,Kuechal, and Bryce (close to combine $85m a year). That’s if they would’ve even signed; and win what 70+ games as opposed to 65?
I think it’s less that they failed in signing the free agents you mentioned, and more that they failed to sign buy low types who they could conceivably flip at the deadline
Yes, but from the tigers ‘needs’ point of view they did just that. Mercer and Harrison. They didn’t have to sign Moore or Ross but they did for trade chip hope. I wish they signed Pomeranz and Fister (retired). We nontendered McCann and decided to go with a younger farm raised C in Greiner. I agree there was talent on the board, unfortunately most of which the tigers really couldn’t utilize or gain in value. Why sign someone like Grandal to a $16m year deal, when you think you might have someone in your system for a fraction of the price? Just for signing sakes. We’re less than 70 win team, & if we spend I believe we’ll be in the same situation as SF,LA angels, or the recent 2017 tigers. Sadly, this isn’t Mr. I’s team anymore.
I believe the days of being one of the top 5 big spenders is unfortunately gone..for awhile. Small-Mid cap teams don’t have the luxury of $100m contract blunders, and instant recovery. They need to stay the course they intended to, and trust the process.
The Tigers didn’t try and fail to sign anyone significant. They told us that they weren’t going to spend, and they didn’t. Avila has said they won’t spend next season either. Maybe in 2021, or maybe not.
Nobody suggested that they sign the most expensive free agents, but their roster is stacked with AAAA players who have no shot at being major league average players- ever. And it’s not like they are blocking some stud position prospects.
While the Tigers are bringing up young pitchers who are expected to form the core of their future, they have Grayson Greiner and John Hicks to catch them and show them the ropes. Martin Maldonado is a defensive gem just sitting there waiting for a contract.
They are just being cheap. There is no benefit to fielding a team this lousy.
So you’re saying Grayson Greiner has a zero chance at being a MLB player? If not, the reason they didn’t sign Maldonado is very simple business sense. Do you know for a fact Tigers didn’t reach out to him? What if he doesn’t want to play for the tigers? It’s easy to cast blame on one side but we dont know the whole story.
I felt the Tigers should have started their rebuild with some free agents… just like they did in 2004 when they got IRod and Carlos Guillen. They should have signed Grandal and Keuchel. Grandal could catch and be the DH at times. Keuchel would be the type of veteran leader that Kenny Rogers was. They could have even taken Moustakas to help add a lefty bat to the lineup and solidify third base. Candelerio could have become a solid bench piece.
It’s shocking that the 2017 and 2018 teams had the same record. Ausmus had Verlander, Upton, JD, Kinsler and Miggy while Gardenhire had a bunch of AAAA players. Gardenhire is a much better manager than Ausmus.
Nah
Melchez is correct. I used to enjoy second guessing Jimmy L’s moves. With Ausmus, I felt like I was picking on a kid who didn’t know any better. Plus, the players quit on Ausmus.
Yup. Ausmus was in over his head. I was sick of hearing him whine during press conferences. Poor leadership. Should have hired Gardenhire in the first place for that veteran stacked 2014 team.
04’ tigers didn’t have two players making almost half some mlb teams whole salary.
So? They have plenty of money.
When you say some, you really mean just one.
It looks the tigers overpayed for Jordy Mercer. When I saw that figure I was surprised it was that high. Their former SS couldn’t even find a major league deal and they’re paying Mercer more than double what they’re giving Harrison. Insignificant amount of cash in the long run on a one year
Deal but Mercer did well getting his deal early.
I would have rather had Iglesias. His defense is excellent. He got into some arguments in the dugout, so I think there was more to it than just his play on the field.
I think there was just a complete lack of SS demand this offseason. Kinda like the segura trade. Essentially Every competitive team had a SS. The tigers jumped on Mercer early. I think if they would’ve waited they could’ve had him or another SS IE Galvis on a relative bargain as well.
Hindsight’s 20-20, I thought Iggy would’ve made twice Mercer’s $5m. I would rather have Iggy at $5m though..
Bye iggy
They call Castellanos a “bat only” player yet in a previous article they praised Andujar for working on his defense at third. Andujar was worse at third than Castellanos was in 2017.
Nick Castellanos is one of the worst defensive baseball players in the game at 3rd or OF. He’s now registered -90 DRS in his career. That’s a negative sign in front of the 90. I don’t think Andujar is ever going to be a good defender at 3B but one year of piss poor defense is a lot less telling than a whole career. Castellanos sucks defensively. Andujar probably will too but the Castellanos can field ship has rightfully sailed.
Look at the player and don’t be so fixated on the analytics. Nick only had 3 errors last year in right. Second most assists. Second most chances. His problem was bad jumps. He will improve. Andujar was worse than Castellanos as a 3B. Look it up.
I’m not saying he wasn’t but nick Castellanos has been god awful defensively for multiple seasons. Andujar has only been unbearable for one. Castellanos was given multiple seasons to improve and never was good enough. No reason Andujar wouldn’t get a chance as well. BTW for the exact figures. Castellanos was -30 DRS -11 UZR/150 Andujar was -25 DRS with a -24.5 UZR/150. They were both atrocious as rookies. The difference is Castellanos has continued to be atrocious. We haven’t seen Andujar yet. (Probably going to be atrocious but it’s year 2 not year 6 for him)
Castellanos’ first year at third: -30 DRS
Not even Andújar was that bad last year.
(Keep in mind Andujar was a 23 y.o. rookie)
And Castellanos was a 22 year old who never played third before.
Castellanos has had no range at two positions and he’s extremely slow. He’s never going to be able to cover ground. And as far as the assists. Well you just said he was 2nd in opportunities last year. It makes sense that he would be 2nd in assists. The more balls hit your way the more chances you have to throw someone out. You also don’t get an Error for balls you can’t get to. So the three errors don’t surprise me. You think any of those assists came from balls he couldn’t run down but a typical RF could? 6 seasons of data is telling you Castellanos isn’t a good fielder. It is what it is.
Castellanos never played 3rd? Aside from the 1500+ minor league innings?
He was still near the top in chances… he got to many of them.
I never said he was a good fielder. He’s just not as bad as the stat freaks claim.
Melchez – Errors are only a measure of blown plays considered routine. They are not very telling of a fielder. Castellanos has range and reaction time issues. Every time he steps on the field, he has negative defensive value. The defensive analytics cannot be ignored, they are very accurate over a large sample size.
He played third in the minors? Are you sure?
Once again… those nerdy stats are not a true representation. Watch the game. He’s not good, but he’s not all that bad either. Nyjer Morgan was considered a solid defender… he gave up an inside the parker because he threw his glove on the ground. That’s much worse than anything Nick ever did.
I couldn’t stand watching the Milwaukee team.
Lmao. Alright. Well having any intelligent argument over this is clearly out the window. You don’t even know Castellanos played 3rd in the minors. Look at a FanGraphs page, a BBref page if you weren’t sure. He played over 1500 innings in the minors at 3rd.
Those “Nerdy stats” tell you he sucks. They repeatedly tell you he sucks. Why? Because he sucks defensively. Take it for face value.
Don’t give me some BS about how Nyjer Morgan threw his glove on the ground and that somehow correlates to Castellanos being a good fielder.
I feel like we were having a solid discussion..and all of a sudden you are really upset? For no reason. Relax man. Talk baseball, no need to disrespect.
Bob, I agree with your post I may have gotten a little hot for no reason but with his? No. There was no logic in that argument. He claimed Castellanos never played 3B in the minors and then somehow weaves in Nyjer Morgan throwing his glove once as a knock on defensive metrics or a defense as to why Castellanos doesn’t suck that much defensively?
Nick was 22 his first full season. Offensive Slash Line of .259/.306/.394
On Defense at Third, Nick made 15 errors in 302 chances for a Fielding Percentage of .950.
Please compare Nick’s 2018 stats to Bryce Harper’s. He is a bat-only guy too, apparently. Nick has had barely one season in RF. He should improve. He is a big guy, so he will never move as smoothly as smaller players, and he will look a little less graceful, even when he makes the play. He does have a strong arm, from the many games I have watched.
When the Tigers acquired Fielder and moved Miguel Cabrera to third base, they moved Castellanos to the outfield in the minors.
He has played shortstop in high school and third base as a teenager in A ball at Lakeland. He hadn’t played third base for over a season and a half when the Tigers
RZR measures the percentage of plays hit into a fielder’s zone that are converted to outs. Nick’s RZR was historically low- the worst for a full time 3B this century. He almost never made a throwing error, especially to first base, but he simply didn’t react quickly enough to make plays that other players made. He may improve some in right field, but he needs to hit the cover off the ball to realize his value. He can do that.
Sorry if I not smart enuf for you… I looked at MLB prospects for 2012 and it said Nick was a shortstop then played third and then moved to the outfield in order to get his bat in the lineup.
I just looked at baseball reference and it says he played 1800 innings at third in the minors and 1500 as an outfielder. His 1800 innings were all at A ball and rookie ball when he was 18, 19 and 20 years old. Then he spent 3 years in the outfield and then was thrown into MLB as a 3b. I guess he should be a gold glover with all that experience right? Is that what the “Nerdy stats” tell you?
Anyone else feel deja-vu, remember JD Martinez trade talk a couple years ago? People called him a defensive bum too.
And he is. I didn’t say one word about Castellanos’ Above average bat. JDM plays DH as well. There’s no need to bring him up here. JDM is still a poor defensive player. But he’s a top 5 hitter.
Mmmk No one is saying Nick is an elite fielder either? And yet you’re comparing him to Andujar.
No one called JD a top 5 hitter while he was in Detroit or Arizona. He was an ‘elite hitter’ in 2018. At the age of 30, 3 years older than Nick.
Bob I don’t know what your issue is here. Castellanos sucks defensively. I said nothing of his hitting. Castellanos hits very well. Certainly good enough to play DH on quite a few AL teams. I don’t know what the hell your problem is. I never said Castellanos couldn’t hit. Your buddy Melchez brought up Andujar and felt Castellanos was getting slighted for being a bat only guy. I simply stated a player who has posted -90 DRS isn’t getting slighted.
I didn’t say you did? I just said this is exactly what everyone said to us Tiger fans 2 years ago with JD. I don’t have a problem either, I’m discussing a topic I thoroughly enjoy. Trust me you don’t offend me, and I’m not trying to offend anyone.
Well you know when someone’s hits you with an “mmmmmk” over the internet combo’d w the rest of your post i might’ve taken that one the wrong waY. I don’t have any problem owning up to that.
Look for Mize and Manning to be the 1-2 co-aces in the near future. Maybe Norris can step up and claim a rotation spot. He has a ton of talent. They also have a bunch of strong relievers coming up… Jimenez, Fernandez, Alcantara, Houston. If they could just produce a couple decent prospects in the field, they’d be in good shape.
The Tigers were able to claim pitcher Jose Fernandez. The one that is still living.
Let’s say everything went right… how good could the Tigers actually be? They are going to face a lot of bad pitching within the division, as CHI, KC & MIN are not good at all. Even CLE has been weakened this offseason.
Is it possible… Cabrera comes back with a MVP caliber 8 WAR season, Castellanos smokes 40 homers, Goodrum is better than last year, Jacoby Jones figures out how to hit, Harrison is healthy and kills it, Mercer is an adequate everyday regular, Candelario plays great, Stewart cracks 35 bombs and Greiner nails down the job full time?
And is it possible… Fulmer comes back to his former self, along with Zimmermann, Moore turns out to be the next JD of pitchers, Ross rediscovers his slider, and Norris finally puts it all together… and the bullpen holds enough leads?
Baseball is a funny game. Tigers are in the worst division in the league, and I think this team could conceivably make the playoffs by winning the division if enough things went right.
It’s far easier to look at the team and prognosticate doom and gloom than it is to look for the silver lining. If the team can stay relatively healthy, there’s plenty of potential with this group.
JaCoby Jones is the guy I feel is due for a monstrous season. My confidence in Zimm/Fulmer.. well that’s a different story.
Jacoby Jones has been the worst hitter in ST. Was awful last year too. Daz could be the everyday CF by the end of the year. Tigers should try to package Jones in a trade. He’s a head case that will likely never hit consistently. Hope I’m wrong though.
What has he ever done to be labeled a head case?
Started back with his drug of abuse suspension in the minors, he over-thinks in the box, he is swinging for the fences when we just need the ball in play, and he lets his frustration show after failing. Don’t get me wrong, with his speed I’d love to see him succeed and be our everyday CF, but he needs to get on base. I’m more optimistic Daz will be the CF next year.
I think to hit their highest potential this season without any other major moves would have been to also sign a veteran backend 7,8,9th inning guy for more bullpen depth
The Tigers are having an excellent off-season going halfway into Spring Training. The Josh Harrison signing was brilliant, and I suspect one of Moore and Ross will provide trade value before the deadline. While they won’t be knocking down the door for a wild card spot, I can see this team finish with 82 wins if just some of the moves go the right way and players like Goodrum and Grenier prove to be valuable full-timers. Strengths: A lot of good, young bullpen arms, solid infield, a real #1 hitter in Harrison, a return to power with Cabrera’s return. Question marks: Jones and Mahtook in the outfield. Both are on short leashes. Zimmerman and Fulmer’s health. Weaknesses: A sketchy rotation overall, poor corner outfield fielding, And then you’ve got Turnbull, Funkhouser, Cameron, Rogers, and perhaps Castro and Paredes possibly forcing their way on the roster before the season is done. This should be an exciting year.
Sorry to disagree Headfirst but I have followed the Pirates for many years and JHay is anything but a solid leadoff man.
He never walks.He gets hit more often than he walks.
He is a fairly good hitter and a good energy guy but he should be batting seventh.
Castellanos should be a point in case for NL DH. A guy that can hit HRs and for Average, not a great fielder why limit the amount of guys like this in the league? Do fans want to see a pitcher strikeout in 3 pitches or an actual hitting situation? Add 1 more player per active roster, most teams will add a pitcher.
Voted F
Tyson Ross was the only good signing, and that is still a gamble. They should be signing Carlos Gonzalez and the best two remaining RPs on 1 year deals right now but it won’t happen. Tigers seem very complacent in rebuild purgatory and they didn’t do anything to really change that.
Tyson Ross? The only good signing? Josh Harrison was a brilliant signing. He and Mercer will be fun to watch this year and could surprise people. A veteran defensive catcher on a 1 year deal and another late inning RP and this team could compete….for 3rd place in the ALC