On its very surface, the fact that Craig Kimbrel remains unsigned sounds ridiculous. He’s on a Hall of Fame trajectory and leads all active relievers in saves (333). The only pitcher in MLB history (min. 200 innings) with a higher strikeout percentage than Kimbrel’s 41.6 percent mark is Aroldis Chapman … at 41.7 percent. A full season of ninth-inning work could push Kimbrel past Jeff Reardon (10th place, 367 saves) and Jonathan Papelbon (ninth place, 368 saves) on the All-Time saves leaderboard. Kimbrel has a career 1.91 ERA and a near-identical 1.96 FIP. He’s a seven-time All-Star who has yet to celebrate his 31st birthday, which lands on May 28.
Before anyone accuses me of trying to do his agent’s job for him, let’s make it clear that with further context, there are some easily identifiable reasons that Kimbrel is still available. Reports early in the offseason suggested that Kimbrel was eyeing a contract as long as six years and north of $100MM. It’s a staggering sum that no reliever has ever touched (or come all that close to reaching). Teams are increasingly reluctant to pay players into their mid-30s and sign contracts of that length in general — only Bryce Harper, Manny Machado and Patrick Corbin have secured deals of even five years this winter — and it’s not as if Kimbrel isn’t without his warts.
First and foremost, he’ll cost any new club a draft pick and potentially international bonus pool space (more details on that) after rejecting a qualifying offer in November. Even looking past his shaky postseason, Kimbrel saw his strikeout, walk, home-run, ground-ball and swinging-strike rates all trend in the wrong direction in 2018. Those declines are being judged against a lofty bar, of course, as 2017 was one of Kimbrel’s best seasons, and his overall standards are higher than those of almost any reliever to ever take the mound.
Even a diminished Kimbrel is an elite reliever, but teams are going to pay him based on what they expect him to do moving forward — not based on what he’s already done — and given those red flags, it’s not exactly a surprise that teams weren’t lined up to give him a record guarantee. Even at the outset of free agency, we at MLBTR predicted that while Kimbrel would set a new high-water mark for average annual value among relievers (four years, $70MM), he would fall well shy of Chapman’s record-setting $86MM guarantee.
That no longer seems to be plausible, however. Perhaps there’ll be a surprising dark horse to emerge and stun the field, but the market for Kimbrel looks remarkably tepid. The teams most recently connected to him — the Braves, Phillies and Twins — are all reported to be interested in a short-term pact. Even among that trio, the Braves’ interest in Kimbrel is reported by Joel Sherman of the New York Post to be “overstated.” Atlanta general manager Alex Anthopoulos has plainly said that he does not foresee spending “big, elite dollars” on a reliever. Red Sox president of baseaball operations Dave Dombrowski has spelled out, without directly saying it, that Kimbrel will not be back. (As I explored last month, Boston’s luxury tax situation would force them to pay a jaw-dropping sum for Kimbrel in 2019.)
We’ve reached the point of the offseason where it’s begun to be suggested that Kimbrel should take a one-year deal at a precedent-setting salary. Sherman, in his aforementioned column, opines that the Dodgers should take that plunge and offer Kimbrel a $25MM salary to come to Los Angeles. Sherman surmises that the Dodgers were willing to exceed the luxury tax for a huge splash on Harper and could take the same approach with Kimbrel on a smaller scale.
Certainly, the Dodgers could afford such a move. Pairing Kimbrel and Kenley Jansen at the back end of games would give L.A. one of the most formidable duos the game has ever seen, even when accounting for the fact that both have demonstrated some potential signs of decline. The Dodgers currently have a luxury tax payroll of just over $201MM, as calculated by Jason Martinez of Roster Resource, and they’re in the process of shaving that further after designating Josh Fields. A hypothetical $25MM outlay on Kimbrel seems steep; after luxury taxes, the Dodgers would actually owe him closer to $28.7MM at that point. Still, there’s little question the Los Angeles club could afford a record annual salary with a more modest luxury hit and more modest overall commitment on a one- or two-year deal.
With that in mind, let’s run through some speculative landing spots for the one of the game’s most decorated relievers. I’ll break this into various categories based on teams’ current luxury tax standing. It’s safe to assume that we can rule out every non-contender on a short-term deal, given that Kimbrel would require draft forfeitures. Despite the fact that the Padres signed Machado and that the White Sox pursued both Machado and Harper, I’m including them in that category. San Diego’s addition of Machado appears more focused on 2020 than 2019, while the ChiSox still don’t seem like viable AL Central threats. Both appear unlikely to weaken their 2019 draft for a short-term bullpen addition.
Similarly, expected contenders like the Indians, Cubs and Red Sox won’t be considered further below given that they’ve each made their offseason financial constraints well known (all payroll and luxury tax projections to follow are courtesy of Jason over at Roster Resource):
Teams that could sign Kimbrel while comfortably staying under the luxury line
- Braves: Atlanta fans have spent the offseason understandably urging the front office to do more. Braves CEO Terry McGuirk spoke openly of the team’s payroll flexibility before the offseason began, giving some fans grand expectations of the moves that’d follow up a meteoric rise to the top of the NL East. Atlanta spent big on Josh Donaldson in November but has since spent a combined $8MM to bring Brian McCann and Nick Markakis back into the fold. The Braves started with a bang but are ending their winter with a whimper. They’re currently sitting on a $118MM payroll and a $126MM luxury ledger after starting the season with a $123MM payroll as recently as 2017. The club’s top execs have tried to defend that position, though the explanations arguably fall somewhat flat. Frankly, if the Braves’ interest in their former star closer has indeed been overstated, that probably shouldn’t be the case.
- Brewers: Milwaukee has been willing to make one-year splashes for both Yasmani Grandal ($18.25MM) and Mike Moustakas ($10MM). Kimbrel on a one- or two-year deal would likely require at least a comparable annual commitment to Grandal. The bullpen is already a strength for the Brewers, although there’s some spring concern regarding Jeremy Jeffress’ shoulder. The Brew Crew’s 2018 payroll is at $127MM, but it’s $147MM when tabulated for luxury purposes. Both are already well into franchise-record territory, so one more splash from owner Mark Attanasio would be a surprise, admittedly.
- Cardinals: St. Louis has a projected Opening Day payroll of nearly $162MM, which would top last year’s record-setting $159MM Opening Day mark. Their current payroll for purposes of the luxury tax rests at roughly $167MM, which wouldn’t come close to the tax line upon signing Kimbrel, but ownership would nonetheless need to shatter its previous record level of spending to sign him. President of baseball operations John Mozeliak has implied that this type of signing isn’t likely, citing last year’s late addition of Greg Holland as a cautionary tale.
- Reds: Cincinnati has done all of its offseason work on the trade market, adding Sonny Gray, Tanner Roark, Alex Wood, Yasiel Puig and Matt Kemp. Those acquisitions have boosted this year’s projected Opening Day payroll to just north of $125MM — a franchise record — while pushing their luxury ledger to roughly $143MM. They’re in a similar spot to their divisional foes in St. Louis and Milwaukee; adding Kimbrel wouldn’t put them anywhere close to luxury territory but would require an unprecedented level of spending from an ownership group that is already spending at a record level. It doesn’t seem likely.
- Rockies: The Rox spent more than $100MM total dollars on relievers in the 2017-18 offseason and came away with little to show for it. Deals for Bryan Shaw and Jake McGee look regrettable, while Wade Davis wasn’t as sharp as he was in his walk year. Colorado’s payroll of roughly $149MM and luxury bill of about $168MM could both technically support Kimbrel, but perhaps the Rockies are wary of making further additions to an extremely expensive bullpen.
- Twins: Minnesota’s payroll is still about $5MM shy of last year’s franchise-record $128.7MM, though for tax purposes their payroll hovers around $138MM. Minnesota has been at least loosely tied to Kimbrel on a one-year arrangement, though like the Cardinals, they had a bad experience when it came to signing players midway through camp last winter (Lance Lynn, Logan Morrison). That said, the team’s farm is among the highest-regarded in the game, which mitigates some of the detriment of the lost draft pick. And the division-rival Indians are quite arguably a worse club now than they were in November, which could provide extra incentive to make one final splash of note.
Perennial payroll cellar-dwellers like the Athletics, Pirates and Rays all have their sights set on competing in 2019 and, obviously, none of the bunch is even in the same hemisphere as the luxury tax barrier. That said, it’s difficult to forecast any of these teams paying a potential record-setting salary to a reliever, even on a short-term deal. Tampa Bay did surprise with its two-year, $30MM addition of Charlie Morton, but it’s hard to see the Rays being willing to punt a draft pick given the organizational emphasis on cultivating a deep farm system as a means of offsetting their annual budgetary restrictions. Several of the teams on the list above seem like long shots, but even that distinction feels aggressive for this trio.
Teams that may be able to narrowly avoid the luxury tax upon signing Kimbrel
- Angels: The Halos are already projected to spend a franchise-record $174MM on payroll — which works out to about $173MM as calculated for luxury tax purposes. But there’s far more room beneath the luxury line next year; the Halos have about $67MM less committed then than they do at present. If ownership wanted to green-light a more drastic payroll hike, the Halos could conceivably add Kimbrel at a premium rate on a multi-year deal. Doing so wouldn’t leave much wiggle room for in-season additions, but in terms of plausible on-paper fits, the Angels make sense.
- Astros: Houston fits into this category by the skin of its teeth, as their current luxury payroll is at $186MM (though their actual 2019 payroll, $159MM, is nearly identical to last year’s $160MM mark). Signing Kimbrel would leave the Astros virtually no in-season maneuverability unless owner Jim Crane authorized crossing the luxury barrier. Houston is reportedly talking about a reunion with Dallas Keuchel, so the ’Stros clearly aren’t closed off to a high-profile addition.
- Mets: Brodie Van Wagenen’s inaugural offseason as GM hasn’t lacked for bravado, big talk or action. The Mets added Robinson Cano, Edwin Diaz, Jeurys Familia, Wilson Ramos, Jed Lowrie and Justin Wilson already, skyrocketing their payroll for luxury purposes to $183MM. Their actual payroll is much lower once factoring for insurance claims on David Wright and Yoenis Cespedes. The Wilpon family isn’t exactly known for spending like they play in the game’s largest market, however, and as is the case with the Astros, adding Kimbrel would leave extremely minimal room for in-season trades without surpassing the luxury barrier. Of the three teams in this category, I’d be most surprised to see the Mets land Kimbrel.
Teams that could sign Kimbrel if they’re willing to pay the luxury tax
- Dodgers: As noted above, the Dodgers can afford it — but only if they’re willing to make the same luxury tax exception for Kimbrel they were willing to make for Harper.
- Nationals: It’s a very similar story with the Nationals, who were tied to Harper throughout the winter and reportedly viewed him as an exception to the luxury tax. The Nats are only a few million shy of $206MM in that regard and would soar past that threshold upon signing Kimbrel. Coupled with the fact that the organization hopes to extend Anthony Rendon, it seems difficult to envision Kimbrel landing in D.C. despite their reported interest. The Nationals, after all, would be a third-time luxury offender, meaning they’d pay a massive 50 percent tax on the first $20MM by which they exceed the initial limit and a 62 percent tax on the following $20MM. It’s extremely difficult to envision a Kimbrel signing and a Rendon extension coexisting.
- Phillies: Even after signing Harper, the Phillies’ projected $163MM Opening Day payroll isn’t particularly close to its club-record payrol of nearly $178MM from back in 2014. Kimbrel would assuredly push them over the luxury barrier, as the Phils currently rest at about $191MM in that regard. By signing Harper, owner John Middleton eventually satiated a fanbase he’d sent into a ravenous frenzy with his “stupid money” comments, but the question for the Phillies now becomes: do they have one final move up their sleeve? Their interest in Kimbrel has reportedly been on a short-term deal. They can definitely accommodate him at anything from one to three years.
- Yankees: This list has (obviously) been structured in mere alphabetical order, but it almost feels fitting to save the “Evil Empire” for last. The Yankees don’t operate like they did in George Steinbrenner’s heyday, but the team still carries a reputation for swooping in, and they clearly have the resources to pull off this type of feat. That said, it still seems highly unlikely. New York’s already at $226MM in payroll for tax purposes, meaning they’ve topped the initial threshold by $20MM and entered the second tax bracket. They’ll pay a 32 percent surcharge on any dollar added to the payroll moving forward, meaning even if they tried to persuade Kimbrel at, say, one year and $18MM, he’d actually cost them about $23.76MM. Coupled with the draft and international forfeitures they’d face — to say nothing of an already extraordinarily deep bullpen — it feels safe to say that the Yankees technically *can* do it but quite likely will not.
So where does that leave Kimbrel, in the end? The best fits seem like those that have a clear opportunity at a division title and aren’t already sporting franchise-record payrolls or perilously large luxury-tax ledgers. From my vantage point, the Braves, Twins, Dodgers, Phillies, Brewers and Mets have the best blends of divisional aspirations and payroll capacity to make this type of match work. It’d take some owners pushing past their comfort zones and Kimbrel accepting that the mega-deal he sought may not ultimately materialize, but any of those clubs would be justified in offering the compromise in terms of annual value on a short-term arrangement.
RedFeather
Japan?
DarkSide830
Atlantic League may have the money to pool for him with the rules deal in place now.
padam
Unemployment line.
Koamalu
The best reliever in the history of baseball and you are saying he should play in Japan? You are not a baseball fan are you?
DarkSide830
its a joke regarding his lack of employment to this point.
anthonyd4412
Koamalu: Wait, what??
exile
Mariano Rivera is the best reliever in the history of baseball.
number1dodger
Roger that.
costergaard2
Mariano
ChipperHofF2018
I can think of at least 5 relievers better than him in the history of baseball
KnicksFanCavsFan
and???? who?
KnicksFanCavsFan
“Whatchu talkin bout Willis?”
mo
Cardinals17
Kimbrel requested too much money for too many years early. Therefore, he was checked OFF of everybody’s want list. I don’t feel sorry at all for him.
DarkSide830
i feel like if not for the Cutch deal the Phils would be frontrunners for Kimbrel. The more and more I think about it, it seems like that deal was Santana 2.0.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
A week before his trade to the Giants, I heard a caller to a Pittsburgh radio show say that Nutting should offer Cutch an ownership stake in the team.
Compared to that, the Phillies deal seems OK, but…
VonPurpleHayes
Cutch never gets injured and had a nice stretch with the Yankees last year. So the Phillies were paying for that. Is it an overpay? At the time, I’d say no, but after seeing how this offseason played out, I’d say definitely.
That being said, Cutch fills the Phillies’ needs more than Kimbrel. The Phils’ pen is already pretty stacked.
DarkSide830
that’s why im not mad at them for making the deal. Im sure the idea was that he could provide an insurance plan if they missed out on Harper. still, it does cause the OF logjam and will show badly if a guy like Jones settles for a minors deal and performs even near as well.
VonPurpleHayes
Absolutely. Good points here.
hothothotinc
14-1 last Wednesday night vs Nationals. That bullpen looks like stacked pancakes to me.
PhanaticDuck26
Not sure what connection you see to Santana at all, unless your just going off the general premise that’s its easier to criticize than to defend. Santana moved hoskins off first… That was bad. Cutch doesn’t do that…that is good. There is the obvious reason why cutch won’t end up as Santana 2.0
DarkSide830
Santana and Cutch are both solid players, but were both jumped in early in the offseason by the Phillies, and both follow a pattern of players signed earlier in offseasons being overpaid compaired to later signees. Cutch causes a logjam in the OF like Santana caused Hoskins to need to move to OF. At least Santana played better then whoever wouldve been the 3rd OF if Hoskins had been at 1B. Harper, Odubel, Quinn, and Williams all have decent chanses to outperform Cutch. (if not now, probably by some point in the deal)
Sk8rboi
Cutch, Herrera, and Harper is a dexent outfield offensive production wise. They should at least be able to have 0 DRS between them.
Vogt83
Cutch will rake in that park. Hit 20 bombs between Oracle and Yankee stadium… In CBP he’ll hit 27-30.
BlueSkyLA
The Dodgers might be able to sign him for around $15M per and still come in just a hair under the CBT, but no way on earth are they going to do it.
corey5kersh22
We should sign him. But Jansen and Kimbrel both want to be the ninth inning guy. If they sign Kimbrel to a one year deal and promised him the closer role Jansen might opt out. Then we’d be out of luck on an elite closer after this season.
BlueSkyLA
Possibly but Jansen’s opt-out decision is going to be based on how well he pitches this year. If it’s not so great like last year he isn’t going to find any better offers on the free agent market than the contract he’s got now. The insurance the Dodgers need is against Jansen being in decline.
kenleyfornia2
Yup they only would have gone over for Harper. Kimbrels market is dead and they would be foolish to pass him up on a 1 yr deal. Its not even like they would be taxed that much. A few million maybe. Kimbrel would massivley improve the pen
the guru
Kiimbrel has better stats than mo rivera at this same time in their career.. He’s a 7x all star. Better than Chapman and a year younger….Chapman just signed for 80+ $MM. Kimbrel is getting colluded against. sad.
darkstar61
You obviously have zero idea what the word collusion means
DarkSide830
according to a large portion kf the users here, guys getting less money always means collusion.
hothothotinc
I call cauliflower on the word colluded!
Koamalu
What is sad is that it’s not just Kimbrel. The owners are raking in the cash and not passing along the increased revenue to the players. For the 2nd straight year player’s average salaries will go down, regardless of what Kimbrel and Kuechel sign for, while baseball revenue continues to go up.
We can have baseball without these owners. We cannot have MLB without these players.
The players are pretty sure it’s collusion and they are willing to strike over it.
platediscipline
The players aren’t getting much of that largess, but the analytics people, the player development people, the coaches, the medical people, etc are.
AtlSoxFan
You also leave out one key fact:
Baseball revenues are up mostly because some teams have cycled through and signed new, fresh, long term tv deals. Two things to know about those – they only benefit the particular team that signs one, and maybe more importantly, the revenue streams from the details released are relatively flat and do not escale over time.
So, the majority of teams that have not signed these new jackpot deals have ZERO access to this mythical cash they’re supposed to have that is lumped into total mlb revenue.
Also, because this revenue stream is flat, if we ran out and gave every cent of it to players this year (recall, some of these are 20, 25 year deals) will players take pay CUTS as other expenses – payroll, taxes, stadium repair/improvement, analytics, etc, increase but revenue isn’t jumping by leaps and bounds and clubs need the cash? DOUBT IT. They need to spend cautiously now so they can continue to later without a need to raise ticket prices 10000x
averagejoe15
This whole comment is just factually inaccurate. The statement that TV deals only benefit the club that signs them simply isn’t true. A portion of all local TV revenue is subject to revenue sharing. For teams that are considered to be taking on risk in their television deal, typically through majority or minority ownership, only a portion of the revenue is subject to sharing.
So if a team simply signs a deal with the local RSN then all the revenue is subject to sharing (something like 34% of the total). A team like the Red Sox who are majority stakeholders in their network only have a portion of their revenue subject to the revenue share. So if they bring in $100M say, only $50M is subject to the 34% share.
The Dodgers contract is thought by many to be designed specifically to abuse the structure of the system. The Dodgers are partial owners of the network, but given the deal structure don’t truly bear any financial risk. However for the purposes of revenue sharing they are being treated as though they do and therefore less of their local TV revenue is subject to sharing.
Also, all the yearly payouts to teams for television deals are negotiated to increase each year by a set percentage. They aren’t flat. I don’t know where you got any of this information but please don’t keep spreading it.
Teams don’t need to spend cautiously now they just want to treat the luxury tax like a cap and want the fans to buy in by crying poor. Fans need to separate team and owner and understand that baseball teams are just appreciating assets that people who might not even care about baseball can park their money in and count the profits in ten years.
BlueSkyLA
The Dodgers media contract is different in terms of the revenue sharing provisions because of bankruptcy court intervention. This is perhaps the single most important reason why McCourt was able to get three times as much for the Dodgers as anyone thought possible. Not every fan buys the owner sob-story about how the players are getting paid too much. If owner profits were made public in the same way player salaries are, nobody would buy it.
The other factual inaccuracy is that teams raise ticket only when they “have to.” They will always charge as much as they are able, whatever the market will bear.
averagejoe15
The court piece is definitely one part of it. But it’s an oddly structured deal in a number of other ways designed to shield revenue from sharing.
And yeah ticket prices are designed for profit maximization. Nothing to do with ‘covering payroll.’
BlueSkyLA
I don’t think MLB would have ever allowed the structuring of the media deal that way but for the bankruptcy court. The courts have the ability to void or change the terms of contractual arrangements if it goes to their mission of satisfying creditors. When all of that went down I wondered why every owner who wants to sell doesn’t force his franchise into bankruptcy first. It sure worked out for McCourt and it didn’t work out so bad for Guggenheim either.
Ejemp2006
It’s not owners as whole but few small teams who never make for money spend. League contraction would help. Minus Rays and Oakland from league then player average salary goes up bigly. In contention, window open? Then spend and go for the gusto! But never in Oakland or Tampa.
Jack Marshall
WHAT? You can have teams without owners? What’s the matter with you?
brewcrewbernie
Brewers already have arguably the best bullpen in the NL. Doubt they’d splurge for Kimbrel. Phillies seem most likely. Twins should be doing all they can to catch the Indians in the weak AL Central.
DarkSide830
Kimbrel and Dallas in MIN would make things real interesting.
VonPurpleHayes
Phillies don’t really have a need for Kimbrel.
DarkSide830
all things considered, the new roster prediction shows just how lucky they are that they have a bunch of guys in the pen with options.
Freddie Morales
Braves and Twins seem like most logical suitors. Both could use stability at closer and have playoff aspirations
Phanatic 2022
Kimberly won’t lead either the braves or twins to a division title so it’s just a waste of money particularly when both teams have been acting poor as of late
R.D.
Twins are in the weakest divisoon in baseball and the braves are defending nl east victors. No, kimbrel wont lead anyone anywhere but a reliable closer is a very valuable asset.
brewpackbuckbadg
Obviously you have to have a certain number of quality relievers to win games and winning games sells tickets but how much does signing a reliever sell tickets at this late point in the off season. I can’t imagine many fans saying “look at that reliever we just signed” I got to go get me some tickets because he is going to be awesome to watch and that is coming from someone who loves watching JJ pitch fro the Brewers.
xabial
Kimbrel lost full control of the plate in the playoffs.
Buyer beware.
DarkSide830
Nice sampling size X. Im sure with that logic Voit is Hall-bound (well, i guess him becoming a Yankee already confirmed that)
Old User Name
Recency bias. The same way Eovoldi got overpaid.
xabial
Don’t forget Joe Kelly.
Phanatic 2022
First ballot baby
Jack Marshall
He had lousy command for the whole season. The post season was not a surprise.to any Red Sox fan.
imgman09
I agree Buyer beware! A lot of teams recently have been burned by giving multi year contracts to Relievers ,he has a lot of Miles on his arm and showed depreciation last year 1 or 2 years Max
Hibbie
It started before that…before the A-S break.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
No chance the Pirates sign Kimbrel and the two main reason have nothing to do with money. They wouldn’t give up a draft pick. Nor would they ask Vasquez to take a demotion.
Solar Flare
You forgot about the fact that Nutting is a cheapskate.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
Nutting could spend like Mike Illitch’s ghost on pay day and they still wouldn’t sign Kimbrel for the aforementioned reasons.
Vasquez is as good as anyone in the game. Neither he or Kimbrel would want to work the 8th.
And Huntingdon values high draft picks as much as he values oxygen.
averagejoe15
They might not give up a draft pick but to say they wouldn’t ask Vazquez to take a ‘demotion’ in this new era of loosely defined bullpen roles is incomprehensible. Vazquez would probably be happy to become the high leverage guy if Kimbrel was in play. It’s only a demotion as traditionally defined, in reality the fireman is much more valuable than three outs in the ninth.
PhanaticDuck26
Well thought out assessment here, Steve. I’m a Phillies fan so of course I’m more that happy with the off-season Klentak & Middleton orchestrated (even prior to Harper they did fantastic), so I’m content at this point to stay away from Kimbrel. I really have a hard time seeing how the Braves can be passing on him, though. Of all the teams you mentioned, particularly those with real playoff expectations, I think the Braves could stand to benefit the most from his presence at the back of a bullpen in a division where we can expect a lot of close games. Truly surprised this hasn’t happened yet. Give him the four years already; he’s earned that.
darkstar61
Closers come and go with horrible collapse rates. Smaller market teams really shouldn’t give mega longtetm contracts to one as his collapse will have devastating consequences for the whole club.
Braves are a fit player wise, but would likely be looking for a shorter deal
tigerdoc616
Kimbrel might just have to take a one year deal. While he had a solid regular season, he was abysmal in the playoffs. Age 31 and a great career so far, but given the shelf life of the typical reliever, have to think most GM’s are thinking he is primed to regress significantly.
Rich Hill’s Elbow
Not trying to be a biased Minnesota sports fan, but Kimbrel to the Twins makes much more sense than any other club at this point, except maybe one…
If the Phillies don’t get him, I believe the Twins will. And for his sake (and Keuchel’s), I hope he gets 3 yrs.
Indiansjoe
Shock the world Cleveland
Strike Four
*Oakland
citizen
White sox*
DarkSide830
*portland
Begamin
They honestly should go after Kimbrel. Im sure his price is as low as it will eve be and they need bullpen help.
Cup'ojoe Simpson
Braves’ fans are tired of pleading upon deaf ears. Every win is going to mean something in the nl east this year and we shall see how it pans out. Sobotka, Viz, Minter, and Kimbrel would most definitely be a force at the backend.
its_happening
Indians should be offering Kimbrel a 1-year deal. They can use a 1-2 like him and Brad Hand.
They won’t.
Brewers should be looking at Kimbrel too. If anyone was poised for a backslide it’s Jeffress. Hader should be starting. Opening Day.
Won’t happen.
Twins still haven’t decided if they want to win the AL Central. They should be in on Kimbrel and Kuechel for a short term.
Probably won’t happen.
Yeah, these fellas probably waited too long.
ewitkows
Is the luxury tax different for each team? I thought it was something around $180 mil ?
Koamalu
$206 million for all teams.
Phanatic 2022
206/226/246 but each team spends differently
Dave P
Why don’t the BoSox give him a 6 year deal…FRONT LOADED…say $20M the first year…then 10M, 9M ,8M ,7M, and 6M. So 60M over 6 years is ONLY an AAV of 10.00M. Fits much more easily in the 2019 budget…and give him an opt out after the first and second years…He would surely leave!
Why would the Sox not take him for 1 year at a tax cost of just 10M?
If he wants to set the All Time Saves record…he needs to play for the Sox this year to get himself another 40+ saves!!
Phanatic 2022
1year 10M would cost the Sox 17M and change. But you are correct. With all the FA in the next two years now is their time.
Jack Marshall
Because he’s not worth the money. That’s why.
Dr. Zaius
I’m pretty pissed at Mozeliak’s antics. The reason Holland’s signing was risky was because Holland was injured for an entire year and pitched mediocre in Colorado. Kimbrel hasn’t had a similar trajectory at all, so there should be no comparison here.
Phanatic 2022
Kimberly will fail whenever he goes
slowcurve
Kimberly eh?
slowcurve
whenever eh? Dude, did you even read your sentence before clicking post?
RJY707499
Hicks and Miller should be great for Cardinals bullpen. No need for overpriced free agent pitchers.
Strike Four
Literally every team in MLB should be after him, this is out of control.
xabial
Nice of you to join this MLBTR discussion, Mr. Meter.
Bravescj10
God I hate AA. Dude just signs guys that were on Toronto. Aside from signing Donaldson to high prices contract he hasn’t done a thing.
Cup'ojoe Simpson
From schuerholz, to wren, to coppy, to this…
It feels like bitcoins’ stock line from 4th quarter 2017 to present day.
its_happening
AA will make big moves during his walk year to justify a new contract. He cost the Jays 2014 and played cautious prior to 2013.
Also expect your first round pick to go unsigned.
Cup'ojoe Simpson
like last year?
ChipperHofF2018
High prices contract, but for only one year. If he can get back close to what he was and be a staple at clean up, it’s a great deal. A lot of ‘it’s but little risk on a one year deal.
padam
I’m scratching my head as to why the Mets are even listed. They have two already and need those dollars to pay for those starters that are coming up, like deGrom and Wheeler. Locking in on another closer at his level is insane.
VonPurpleHayes
Mets manager is one of the new wave analytics guys. It’s not inconceivable that he’d run with 3 closers and use them in weird ways.
That being said, I agree with your point. I don’t see the Mets as a logical fit.
citizen
I don’t get it for MLB owners and gms to sign and trade for domestic assault chapman and not kimbrell.
TradeAcuna
I’m honestly more surprised he hasn’t blown his elbow out versus. not being signed yet. I personally don’t think the Braves need him, especially for more than 3 years.
chicagofan1978
I have a feeling it’s gonna take a closer going down on a contender to get this guy signed. I don’t understand why the Braves haven’t signed him yet. Or a team like the Cubs who have a question mark with their closer, but I get the whole staying under the luxury tax thing.
The Human Toilet
Cubs would have to go over the final tier and lose 10 spots in the draft which is not going to happen.
SFGiantsGallore
Sit the year out. Possibly retire and become a potential HOF with a 1.96 ERA and 333 saves. Go out on top like Barry Sanders did in Detroit. You’ll always be remembered for how great you were, instead of playing until you failed.
Koamalu
The quote below is not my words, but it reflects what many in the game feel. Players are angry. Great players are still unsigned. Other players that can still contribute at an average or better level at the major league level are unsigned just because they are over 30. This is a good read. Take it to heart. He is right about everything.
“The fact that Craig Kimbrel has not been signed yet is another sign that free agency is broken. Teams are making an increasing amount of revenue, more money than ever in the history of the game and they are still not willing to pay to get the best reliever in the game.
Before anyone even tries to say that Kimbrel isn’t the best, look at his stats. Even Mo was not this good through 9 seasons. If he cannot get a deal that equals or surpasses Chapman and Jansen then the system is not working. In the past teams would have been falling all over themselves to sign him. Now he is unsigned in the 2nd week in March.
Changes need to be made to the free agency and arbitration model being used and they need to be made before 2022 or you can be sure that by then the players who are already saying that a strike is a foregone conclusion, may take it upon themselves to make an even bolder move and challenge baseball antitrust waiver in court.
Signing Kimbrel now won’t change the bad feelings between ever richer owners and the players that are getting a smaller and smaller cut of the revenue that the players produce. what can is the owners stepping up to the table and offering changes that give players free agency sooner, that revamps the arbitration process, and that ends the service time manipulation that is robbing fans of seeing the best young players sooner.”
outinleftfield
The haters are out in force in the comments above. You have hit on exactly what is real and on the problem. Kimbrel should have been signed a long time ago. A 5/90 or better deal should have been on the table in November. He has earned being paid like the best, because he is the best. Relievers often pitch at a high level into their late 30’s. Kimbrel wont be 31 until late May.
Koamalu
That is from a Padres blog. He has a real clear understanding of what is going on. Not many that are not former players or that talk to current players often have the insight that he showed in that piece. The system is broken and the players are ticked off.
outinleftfield
What site is it from?
AtlSoxFan
Here’s one for you:
I’ve seen a group of posters on here that point at revenues and claim players should be paid based on war, usually I see $8mil per as the value.
Fact: war assumes an entire team of replacement level players to put in a 48-114 record as of its most recent revision.
Fact: you require buying 33 war amongst players to just become a .500 level ball club.
So, to have a .500 level performance expectation team, 81-81, the 8m/1war model requires a $268million payroll.
Doesn’t seem realistic.
Furthermore, many fans point to record revenue for MLB, but, ignore that alot of that exponential increase was driven by a relatively few teams signing new cyclical tv deals – revenue only those couple teams can tap.
Worse yet, the details I saw on most of those deals show a flat revenue curve. Owner A gets a 40mil/yr bump in 2018… but also only gets that same 40mil in 2043. So as taxes,staff, medical costs, stadium repair/upgrades etc increase, the only new revenue comes from gate receipts, concessions l, and merchandising.
It’s bad business and ineptitude to dole all that newfound cash away in year one. You know the players won’t give any back and take pay cuts as the revenues don’t grow with costs on a percentage basis
averagejoe15
The $8M/WAR figure is misrepresented by the media, every single team assigns a different dollar value to 1 WAR and there may be an exponential effect as well. $8M/WAR may be true for MIL but certainly is not the value the Athletics assign to a win.
That said the idea of team building is to mix cost controlled talent with market rate free agents. Obviously teams won’t spend that much for WAR because the economics of the game allow teams to add WAR for pennies on the dollar.
The comments about television deals continue to be incorrect. TV deals are subject to revenue sharing, it’s complicated and it’s only a percentage, but it’s partially shared. Also the deals are structured such that the yearly payout increases at a set percentage. It’s bad business and ineptitude to negotiate TV contracts that remain flat in 20 years.
Ejemp2006
Good words. Players should do big media uproar. That would have good for baseball too! Sensational draws clicks these days. Clicks make money.
Three usual suspects in the big spend were Rangers, Orioles, and Tigers. But they stopped. So minus them, add (Tampa, Pirates, and Oakland never spend) equal fewer landing spots for good salary deserving veteran.
In current market, smart player agent target specific team early with affordable salary demand early in free agency.
Psychguy
Halos need a lot more help than Kimbrel. Dodgers are fine without him. Let him twist in the wind while he continues to look for a Boras – like deal.
Thuggababyy
Reds sound pretty cool tbh
Phanatic 2022
Brewers or Phillies but at this point nobody wants him. What penalties would a non luxury tax offender pay for a 1 year 8m dollar deal pay?
dematteo1982
I feel that the contending teams that need him the most are the Braves and Twins. There is no way he gets more than 3 years in my opinion…i know free agency has been BS for the players the past 2 off-seasons..but if i were Kimbrell, id take a monster 1 year deal….say for $18-$20mil and try his luck again next year…if its a 1yr deal with a high AAV…i really think the Twins should pounce. That would crush most of my fantasy teams sleeper closer (May) but Cleveland didnt do much and i feel the Twins had a very good winter…certainly closed the gap…
Now…if the Twins got Kimbrell AND Kuechel,they would definitely be a wild card contender and would give the Indians a run for their money…
Lets see what happens
outinleftfield
Why would any team lose a draft pick and possibly 2 draft picks + Intl FA money, to sign any free agent to a 1 year deal?
Phanatic 2022
You don’t lose int FA money under 50m
bhambrave
The Braves are hamstrung in the Intl arena (Thanks Coppy), so they shouldn’t have to worry about that part of the equation.
Dotnet22
Cardinals have no designated closer and haven’t had a legit proven closer in quite a few seasons. They seem like they want to be all in this year but won’t spend the money on an obvious team need and the weakest part of the team.
I’m not saying other team don’t need Kimbrel more, but the Cardinals fit so well here. Using Holland as an excuse to not sign Kimbrel is mind boggling. Those two scenarios should not be used together.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
People will remember him as the guy who choked in the World Series.
outinleftfield
Anyone that does, is a stupid fan. He didn’t lose a game in the World Series. He had 6 saves in the playoffs. He is the best reliever in baseball. Hands down.
Phanatic 2022
And in the 4 saves he had against the Yankees his era has 8.44 and ops against north of 1000…. you must be a rocket scientist in your day job
AtlSoxFan
His worst showing last season was probably Sept 26 v BAL…. he lasted all of 1/3 of an inning giving up 4 ER and 3BB to that overpowering Orioles lineup in the doubleheader.
He’s good. He has talent. He’s got great career stats. But he’s got red flags, rolled out some clunkers last year, and hasn’t yet proven whether that was a brief hiccup, or something more.
1 yr deal, shed the QO, put anyone’s concerns to rest, then go out next offseason seeking a big, but not outrageously so, long term deal.
njbirdsfan
I wouldn’t mind if every one-inning wonder (closers) and their entrance music took a hike forever.
greg i.
Angels won’t sign Kimbrel and have to give up a draft pick. If he is still a free agent when the date comes that ends the draft pick compensation, i could see them signing him to a 1 year deal GM Eppler has yet to sign a FA attached to draft pick compensation.
brandons-3
That’s smart as he inherited a historically bad farm system.
Yankeepatriot
Him and Dallas need to take the hit on this one and settle for less
anthonyd4412
Cubs would be a great fit but yeah I know…
breckdog
The braves are committed to real estate investment at this point. The money they saved swapping contracts is being spent on development around the ballpark. Maybe kimbrel will buy some land around the ballpark and the braves get a package deal.
gabriel33
Braves should offer $35 mil/2. THAT’S IT. Diminishing skillset. If they do sign him, I’m stocking up on TUMS!
Hibbie
35M for 2 years? That would be crazy.
Z-A 2
You said the Phillies opening day payroll is 163M, but then you say its 191M?
batty
$163mm is there current opening day payroll. $191mm is what their luxury for payroll is set at currently. The first figure is what the team is currently paying. The second figure is what includes all the contracts signed as average AAV.
For instance, if player (A) has a contract for 5 years structured at $4mm/$8mm/$10mm/$12mm/$15mm, the total is $49mm so the AAV is $9.8mm per year. That’s why Luxury Tax amounts are almost without incident going to be higher than the true payroll. Also, in years 3, 4 & 5 of that example, the team will have a lower luxury tax rate on that particular player than his actual salary.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
What about the Cubs? They only went over the luxury tax one time in 20 years.
Keithbw22
Hey smart kids? (Cuz I’m not as baseball smart as I thought I was….) Why do some teams have a luxury tax line different than others? I thought everyone’s was the same?
Dorothy_Mantooth
Every team has the same luxury tax thresholds, the first level being $206M (I believe). The only variable component is the additional tax they need to pay for exceeding each level. If it is your first year exceeding $206M, you pay X%. If you exceed it in two consecutive seasons, you pay Y% and if you exceed it in 3+ consecutive seasons, you pay Z%. That’s why both the Dodgers and Yankees stayed below the cap last year so they could reset their penalties to X% right now. The Cubs and Red Sox are paying at the Z% rate for being over for 3 consecutive seasons.
capo78
He waits any longer and he may have to settle for a 1 year contract that could be less than the QO.
Dorothy_Mantooth
The Qualifying Offer penalty has to go in MLB. In fact, they should do away with the QO in its entirety and take a page out of the NFL playbook. If your team loses more impact FA’s than FA’s you sign, your team gets compensatory draft picks in the following season. So the Red Sox would get a compensatory draft pick in 2020 for losing Kimbrel, but the team that signs him would not receive any penalties for doing so.
The fact that Kimbrel is going to cost a team their 2nd or 3rd round draft pick, possible international draft funds (if total deal is over $50M) and $18-$20M/yr in salary makes him extremely unattractive to most clubs. If the teams could just sign him with no penalty (other than his high salary), Kimbrel would be flush with offers right now. Get this right MLB…it’s not that hard!
AtlSoxFan
If Kimbrel hadn’t misread the market with his agent, and/or performed at a higher level particularly as he backed through the postseason, he wouldn’t need to be flush with offers – he’d have signed already!
Coulda, shoulda, woulda, didnt.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Kimbrel just ran out of gas last year. Unfortunately for him, it was in late September and the playoffs. While his numbers were down from a near career best 2017, he was a Top 3 closer last year and had far more to do with their 108 wins than someone like Joe Kelly. However, Joe peaked at the right time (August – October) and ended up getting overpaid for doing so.
Sox fans will miss both of these guys, but I think Kimbrel is getting treated very unfairly by both owners and fans. He had a very strong season last year and has been the BEST Closer over the last 5-6 years. He got a little wild in the playoffs but that is easily correctable. Whichever team signs him is going to get a fantastic closer and competitor. Really wish the BoSox didn’t screw up their roster with so much dead cap dollars because he deserves to be back in Fenway.
AtlSoxFan
I’d agree with most of that sentiment, however, he also fared poorly all season long whenever Cora put him in the game in a high leverage, but not 9th inning, role.
For many teams/managers, it’s the highest leverage inning the most talented closer-type needs to be able to perform.
For whatever reason, Craig didnt, or couldnt, keep up with that trend. Lacking that flexibility hurts his market too. And that part wasn’t a end of season/out of gas thing, he had that trouble all year long.
Hibbie
Bingo
Dave P
Why don’t the BoSox give him a 6 year deal…FRONT LOADED…say $20M the first year…then 10M, 9M ,8M ,7M, and 6M. So 60M over 6 years is ONLY an AAV of 10.00M. Fits much more easily in the 2019 budget…and give him an opt out after the first and second years…He would surely leave!
Why would the Sox not take him for 1 year at a tax cost of just 10M?
If he wants to set the All Time Saves record…he needs to play for the Sox this year to get himself another 40+ saves!!
bravesfan
Braves need to go get him. We need him so badly it hurts
sufferforsnakes
Maybe his landing spot will be Earth……….when he comes crashing down to it.
xabial
These threads have been kinda tense lately.
Thank you, Mr. sufferfortribe, sir.
sufferforsnakes
You are very welcome, my friend.
mj-2
Braves need Kimbrel. Not only do they need him because their bullpen is weak, but as an added bonus this is the type of signing that would spark a young Braves team with excitement
I hate to admit it, but being so young the Braves are an emotional group at times. Watching everyone else just add and add while we did nothing was a big negative, more than it should be. Having the “last laugh” very well could be as important as the talent of Kimbrel itself.
Hibbie
Red Sox fans are happy he is not back, he was awful last year, it wasn’t just the playoffs. The outfielders saved him last year, lots of times. He cannot come in if it is not a 9th inning save situation, even then he will throw 30 pitches to get 3 outs in the 9th. He went a 3-2 count almost every batter last year. Nice guy and hope he gets it back together.
titanic struggle
My suggest landing spot would be a barbers chair to get that mangy lookin red whatever he calls that shaved off of his face…
downsr30
What do they mean when they are saying each team has their own luxury line?? I thought it was the same luxury tax for every team.
Hibbie
35M for 2 years? That would be crazy.
SupremeZeus
Aging, volatile position, huge costs to acquire. Only a few big dollar win now teams should even be in the market for him. The remaining teams are probably better served by keeping their powder dry and assessing their bullpen needs during the season. Target available relievers having good/great years in a trade at a significantly lower cost with significantly less risk.
mkeyankee
Brewers make sense on a 1 year deal. Jesus, he could break 50 saves…
Christopher Guzman
If Philly could get him on 2 years with a 3rd year mutual option (with a buyout) they should go for it. Add him to the bullpen and it would be pretty darn good back end.
xtim87x
Blue jays need a set up guy
Bobbig
Asked for too much and scared away all the GMs, 31 settle for 2 yrs and a team option with an out on the 3rd say 27 M guaranteed and a third for…
CursedRangers
Steve Adams – great write up. One of the better ones yet. Gave a good solid overview on the reality that he is looking at, along with solid insights into teams that could make sense.
RIPprosports
Dodgers stay away!
dubinsky
Kimbrel should sign with the Yankees and work as an opener for them.
he would have to significantly lower his contract demands though.
league minimum plus an incentive bonus of $10,000/inning for the first 10 innings/week and additional bonus money after the first 100 innings
after that, in mid-June, they should trade him so that some other team pays his medical bills
VegasSDfan
Dodgers: Josh fields?
What happened. His numbers make him look like a bargain?
Gene325
Kimbrel’s gotta get real about a few things, starting with his age, declining velocity, increasing walk rate and inability to come in and pitch a clean inning. Once he’s factored in these metrics he can add in the fact that there are very few teams that could come close to his asking price without tripping over the luxury tax. Oh yeah, then there’s the fact that any team signing him is going to lose a high draft pick.
Backatitagain
Braves may be willing to take on $28Million of Dodgers “Dead Money”, (Homer Bailey, $23MMM, Yaisel Sierra $5MM) along with Joc Pederson ($5MM), Walker Beuhler and Kiebert Ruiz to open up salary space for Kimbrel or Keuchel. Braves would send three lottery picks to LA, like Yutaro Osaki, Brandon Downs and Jason Hursh.
mack22 2
Why on earth would the Dodgers do that? Buehler is an ace at the beginning of his prime.
mack22 2
Just because the Dodgers can afford it doesn’t mean they’ll throw money on a guy clearly in decline.