The Blue Jays have reassigned third baseman Vladimir Guerrero Jr. to minor-league camp, the club announced and Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet was among those to cover (via Twitter). That news brings an official end to the MLB camp experience of baseball’s best hitting prospect.
Guerrero, 19, had already likely wrapped up his spring work owing to the intervention of a recent oblique injury. That nixed any remaining chance that he’d open the season on the active MLB roster — an opportunity that likely wasn’t available anyway, given the front office’s established position on his readiness.
Toronto president Mark Shapiro recently discussed things further, as Nicholson-Smith reported. The club would like to see a “light bulb going off” for the exceptionally talented youngster, who’s expected to be a franchise centerpiece for years to come.
Though he didn’t express any concern with Guerrero’s work ethic, conditioning, or dedication, Shapiro did discuss a need for him (and other young players) to learn how to “live your life with intent.” It’s understandable that the Jays would like Guerrero to seize his full potential with a committed “intent to get better,” though a cynic might be inclined to turn the tables on the front office’s own intentions here. There’s ample reason to believe that Guerrero would be a high-quality major leaguer right now, even if he’s not a fully developed all-around player. And it’s at least fair to question whether his skills and habits will be honed faster in Buffalo rather than in Toronto.
There was one other aspect of Shapiro’s commentary that seems worthy of further attention. The veteran executive said:
“The reality is there’s 50 decisions throughout the day that you can control. If you start to control 38 or 40 of those 50 decisions every day, you’re going to make decisions for Ross (Atkins). Ross isn’t going to have to make them. What you’re ultimately hoping to do is hand the development over to the player.”
We’re all accustomed to hearing pretext for service-time-driven decisions. Some of it has some grounding in reality. Shapiro’s views on players owning their own careers surely have some merit and grounding in good intentions. Vlad Jr. can surely improve his glovework and baserunning as well. But it seems awfully disingenuous to suggest that off-field dedication by a player can “make decisions” for a front office even as teams decline even to acknowledge the often-dispositive influence of long-term player control and financial considerations in promotional decisions.
*complete, total, and utter surprise*
He could stand to shed a few pounds. I see him at a poor mans panda.
Vlad will be way better then Panda.
Poor man’s Panda? Glad is better now than Panda was in his best day.
Uh, no. Panda was integral to the giants championship runs. This other guy is a prospect. He hasn’t done anything yet. Try again.
He’s hurt. Do you really think his agent would go along with faking an injury to extend service time? Pfft
His agent wants him to rocket through his service time so he can be another Machado or Harper.
Yawn.
Big big story.
(insert comment about being totally pissed the Jays did this to him, and how they are clearly taking advantage of the system)
You would be correct if he wasn’t injured
Or if the author didn’t say this which is true, “an opportunity that likely wasn’t available anyway, given the front office’s established position on his readiness.”
Well at least now they have a ligitamate excuse and don’t have to lie and say he’s not ready for the show!
Too late, they already did before the injury
Keeping him down so he could learn how to eat and prepare to be a Mlb player was obviously a legitimate reason to keep in AAA. By the looks of him he should spend all 2019 in AAA he’s clearly not ready.
Yes, somebody who hit over .400 in AA last year, and. 336 in AAA definitely needs to spend all year in AAA. Yes, that is sarcasm.
And hitting .211 against MLB pitching in ST…..
I hope you’re not suggesting spring training stats have any meaning
Kevin Pillar is hitting .167 so I guess he’s out too!
Kevin Pillar is a not a good hitter, bad example.
Who cares? It was a horrible argument.
Not that horrible of an argument. It does t mean everything but it definitely means something.
And a legitimate reason, too.
He’s not. If you saw him this spring his defence is poor, he’s poorly conditioned and he hit poorly. There was nothing off the spring to say he should break camp with the club.
If only there were a position free of defence in the league VGJ is trying to break into.
I doubt any MLB club would want their 19 year old wunderkind to be an immediate DH.
And because learning better defense on an mlb club while playing dh everyday is a surefire way to improve that skill
If only Shapiro had waited with his BS excuses, then he wouldn’t be on record as sounding like such a tool….
It’s the “live your life with intent” remark that would piss me off… thank God Vlady, Jr., isn’t bilingual.
Yeah not totally sure what that even means. “live your life with intent”? what is this guy talking about
It’s not good… some possible underlying messages to Shapiro’s remark:
1. Lose some weight;
2. Stop eating hotdogs while you round the bases during a homer;
3, Stop acting like a 19 year old;
4. We need any excuse to keep you under control for one more year.
He is saying that they should strive to be better than just about everyone else on the planet… oh wait?
He’s saying don’t become pablo sandoval.
Bingo.
Just something Shapiro picked up at a satanic ritual.
Like the Jimenez post earlier
I’m pretty sure no one is upset at any one team. The fact that teams aren’t fielding their best product at all times is what is bothersome.
Yes it’s smart to hold a player down for an extra year of service, but I think the product on the major league field should come first.
It’s a doubled edged sword and teams and players are aware this is going to happen. It will most definitely be brought up in the next CBA because it’s blatant manipulation of service time in which service time was not set up for these purposes.
to me it seems like the mlbpa will fight to drop the service time from 6 years, rather then fight the manipulation fight.
Yup, that’s the best way to go. Ownership will manipulate any deadline, so just shave years.
Or just trade dropping the whole ‘super 2’ stuff in exchange for lowering the threshold for a ‘year’ of service time to be 100 days instead of 172.
That way any team who wants to game the system has to miss out on 3 months of production instead of 2 weeks. That’s a much tougher call to make so flippantly.
the Bisons will be fielding there best team in years, and the Atkins will probably mess it up .
the Bisons will be fielding there best team in years, and the Atkins will probably mess it up .
OMG, even within the realm of service time manipulation nonsense, this ranks at the top. Clearly, he’s putting in more effort than GMs that maintain a guy who would be the best guy on the team now needs 11 minutes more defensive development. But throwing out mushy garbage in an attempt to make the promotion process seem more mysterious & inscrutable is just as bad. Explain to me how a guy that hit .400 at AA .336 at AAA hasn’t had the “lightbulb go off? What BS.
Consider he’s 400 pounds he probably needs a whole year at AAA
He’s not 400 lbs. He’s 6-2, 250. Who cares anyway? He murdered AAA last year. What good will it do him? And what, there are no nutritionists in Toronto? Ridiculous take.
C’mon man. He’s shaped like Beyonce from the waist-down. He should be in the majors now, but let’s not ignore the big caboose in the room.
250? On what scale? He’s easily 270.
He’s listed at 250. Before this year he was listed at 200. Neither numbers were correct.
Yeah he’s too fat and not ready. I think they should just trade him to the Rangers. He’s overrated and the Rangers can save them the embarrassment of him totally tanking. As a Ranger fan, I hope Jon Daniels will take in this total charity case. It’s the least he can do for our Canadian brothers.
Haha, exactly.
And he’ll never be 180 if he’s already this big at 19.
I mean, it’s not like he sits on the couch all day stuffing his face with fast food as it is.
Time to work on that defense…..
everyone hates this decision and everyone is in agreement that its the most sensible decision
Not sensible, a CBA violation (if the injury hadn’t given them an actually legit excuse, not this drivel).
Being out of shape is a excuse
No, it isn’t. Not unless there are no gyms or vegetables in Toronto. I suspect there are.
Here in canada our honourable prime minister Rick Mercer banned gyms
The health risk outweighed the health benefits
Does he have an issue with playing 1B? Maybe cuz it’s really really hard.
Tell em Wash!
Not surprise that this happened.
Is it too early to make “Yo Vladdy’s So Fat” jokes?
So basically… the team is scared he’ll get fatter.
Sorta. For example, every time Vlady hits a homer, he screams “BAKLAVA!!!”
He may have an eating problem… or at the very least… a low metabolism.
His dad would yell “child support!!” after each homer…
Bertha Butt’s younger brother…….
BTW, is it me or does every time Shapiro opens his mouth, he sounds more and more ignorant……
Preorder cancelled.
The only “decisions” the Blue Jays want Vlad to make is to agree not to count any time on the MLB roster as service time.
The player’s union need to strike and BTMD!
who doesn’t carry baby fat?
There is just no way this system continues. I mean the union agreed to it but that was before the new Free Agency. If things continue the way they have gone the past two offseasons then this manipulation of service time will mean a lot of these guys will never get paid. In years past guys were paid for past performance, that is no longer. Vlad Jr likely still reaches FA @ 27 but many of these guys, like Kris Bryant, will be manipulated to not reach FA until after their prime and will receive 1 or 2 year deals.
They also agreed to it before blatant, aggressive tanking and a sudden surge in profit mysteriously led to every team having a shortage of spending money…
You mean the cubs, right? Tanking bastiges.
The Cubs ranked for 3 years. The White Sox will be tanking for much longer. When the Cubs and Astros did it, they were the rare teams to be smart enough to think forward like that. Now half the league does it, and tanking with 10 other tanking teams makes tanking harder and makes less sense to do it. Zig when others are zagging.
*tanked
All MLB has to do is move the cutoff to mid season. The stupidity of teams gaining a full year for 20 days in the minors make it an absolute no brainer for teams to hold future stars back.
The entire Blue Jays organization is a complete joke. Shapiro is Clueless and they are cheap.
Snowflakes melt when the sun comes out. Most people prosper in the sun.
Thanks for the great content
“But it seems awfully disingenuous to suggest that off-field dedication by a player can “make decisions” for a front office even as teams decline even to acknowledge the often-dispositive influence of long-term player control and financial considerations in promotional decisions.”
___
Pure gobbledygook.
The kid is 19 years-old. Media hype aside, other then swinging the bat he does nothing else at a major league level.
Long been time in this society to stop blaming “the system” for peoples shortcomings. Individuals have to take responsibility for ourselves. Walking around and wanting to do only what we enjoy, then blaming others when we don’t advance is not a sign of a healthy future for our society (let alone trying to make a living in a competitive sport). If this kid is rewarded in spite of his shortcomings, his future is that of a DH that gets pulled from the game for a pinch-runner if he gets a hit at a critical juncture.
“Other than swing the bat” He selectively hits a lot and with power. Has all the tools of a triple crown winner.
You know that about a 19 year-old kid that has not faced a major league pitcher in a game that counts?
In 141 years there have been 17 triple crown winners. Yet you know this kid can become one?
lol
At this point this kid bears far more similarity to Miguel Sano then he does to Rogers Hornsby, Lou Gerhig, Jimmy Foxx, Ty Cobb, Mickey Mantle, Ty Cobb and others.
If a players can base their career moves entirely on financial considerations why can’t the team do the same?
Everyone knew Vald Jr was going to AAA this year. I don’t understand why Blue Jays fans are upset. This guy is a defensive liability right now. And he is getting “fatter” each year. Is he eating healthy foods? Is he exercising and keeping his body maintained? He looks like David Ortiz right now and the kid is only 19. Next year he could be 280 pounds at the rate he is going. That is being over weight in the baseball world. His dieting does need adjusted.
@ Shannon Wolfe;
He is basting in the hyperbole, adulation, and infatuation that agents, sports media sites like this one, and hangers-on have built him up in. Unless his father (who I loved watching play) works to ground him, this kid is going to be a bigger bust then Buxton.
If anything Jays fans should be happy and should be angry if they were to lose a full of year of Vlad Jr for a couple weeks when they’re not even trying to win in the first place.. I can’t imagine a Blue Jay fan being mad and understanding the rules correctly of the CBA.
Excatly it makes me mad just seeing people mad over holding ANY prospects back. It makes sense so kids go rake and get your confidence to 100….no big deal just quit with the fake stories and words GM’s and be honest…. Oh wait, it would keep your name and affiliate’s name out of the news and we can’t have that now huh?
Why couldn’t they call him up now and then pay him fairly when his contract expires? They wouldn’t be losing any years of Vlad, they’d just have to pay him sooner.
How about dropping some weight? That’s literally the only argument the Jays can make, and his weight does look problematic. Dude can mash, but he’s sloppy fat and looks more like Nicki Minaj then a MLB player.
Babe ruth says Hello
Cecil and Prince Feilder are waving at you
Dave Parker wants your number to chat
Kirby Puckett also would like a word
David Ortiz is looking at you like a dugout phone with Pedroia in his periphery
Tony Gwynn
There once was a ballplayer named Puckett….
Yeah, I’m aware of all those players. Most of them were much thinner than Vlad Jr when they were 19 too. Sure, he could play as an overweight turd and probably have some success. But I’d imagine he’d be much more successful if he dropped that loveseat he’s caring around.
Last May, Vlad was touted at 225#. This spring, 9 months later, he’s checking in 25-30# heavier, AND, within a handful or appearances goes down with an injury more reflective of poor conditioning than being accidental, especially for a 19 year old.
Does the front office have a right to be upset with how the player is caring for his physique? I’d say YES. While it is the players body, the investment in time, money, and draft potential is all by the club. It’s reasonable for them to expect the player to take care of himself and show up in proper form.
Also, you dont go out to draft a DH. That’s a position you move into when you can’t play a regular position anymore for some reason, and preferably not just because you’re too lazy to keep in shape.
(And yes, I freely admit ROUND is a shape, just not a proper one for any non-sumo athlete.)
Mo Vaughn is waving his hands right now.
Turner – none had a weight problem at 20 years old. Even Prince.
I would like to see that pant load Shapiro live his life with more intent, fleece the Blue Jays for a few more years and get out of town forever.
Vlad Jr. will lead all professional baseball in hamburgers eaten this year.
If he hits 30+ homeruns after being called up then who cares?!
Or a 30-30 guy; 30 bombs, 30 errors.
Who breaks more belts? He or Sandoval?
He’s had how many years of various pro ball…2? This is his 3rd.
He needs to work on his glove. He needs to work on his conditioning. And he needs to keep developing as a professional, his maturity is not necessarily ready for the bigs. Imo he should be in triple-a to start the year and stay there until he demonstrated improvement in these areas.
I watched him as a unbaissed Mariner fan this spring. I don’t see it. I don’t see where he comes off as a mlb player. His stance, his wieght, the way he. Steps into the bat, sorry I do not see it. Yes spring training is exact that .. training….but he’s looked over matched. A lot. I smell a bust ..
Are you high? You think you smell a 20 year old bust going into his 3rd full season of pro ball??? LOL
They said similar things about his Dad, he’s now in the Hall of Pretty Good (Harold Baines)! You should leave the scouting report to the professionals and just remain a unbiased Mariner’s fan who has seen about 5 minutes of him.
There’s literally zero chance he’s a bust. He’s a lock at minimum to hit .300 rolling out of bed. But dude needs to lose a lot of weight, or he’s not going to be nearly as good as he could be.
assuming he’s a lock to hit .300 is a huge assumption. that’s not easy to do and to think he’s a lock is foolish.
“What you’re ultimately hoping to do is hand the development over to the player.”
Without directly saying it, Shapiro wants Vlad to lose weight. He wants Vlad to know he is not entitled. He wants Vlad to know things will not come easy once he’s in the major leagues. He wants Vlad to know he needs to work on his defense and believes he can be a complete player, not just an offensive force. And he wants Vlad to know he needs to be a grow into the man that will have the weight of the world on his shoulders as the face of the organization. He will be scrutinized even when he’s not at-fault. He will need to be prepared for that starting at the age of 20.
Vlad showed up to camp unprepared and looked sloppy on defense. The demotion is the right call, and I hope this is motivating for Guerrero.
Most importantly he wants to get that extra year of control. Sure, all of the other stuff is nice, but let’s not kid ourselves the extra year is what is the most important thing. Rightly so. Plus, I’d argue that having him in the Majors would help his weight problem with all the resources at his disposal. Whatever kind of diet he’s using in the minors clearly isn’t working.
Bush1 – Buffalo is roughly 1 hour, 40 minutes from the Rogers Centre. Keeping tabs should not be an issue.
Keep in-mind Vlad played Arizona Fall League, which took up October and half of November. 3 months after the season ends he arrives to camp with some extra weight. Vlad has to be responsible for himself during the offseason. So I’m not placing blame on minor league diet, especially when grandma (allegedly) is doing the cooking.
Vladdy’s a big guy, That much is clear.
Future is bright …many a cheer!
Less than the promise? That is the fear.
Majors are different …tough to adhere.
Think it would help from where I peer:
Good as he is, lose some of that rear!
.
The question I have is:
How does it go when he has to say “No” to Grandma’s cooking?
Say no to grandma’s cooking won’t go over well,
Belt so tight hips starting to swell,
He gained some weight the last few months you can tell,
Probably shouldn’t make late night stops at Taco Bell.
Yeah, that conversation goes south real fast Kodlon. Real fast.
Shapiro should run for office.
I bet he be up in two weeks.
He won;t be up until mid to late May after he reaches the number of missed games to allow management to keep control of him one extra year.
Listening to the general manager makes Guerrero sound almost like he makes poor decisions off the field and needs more maturing. If this is the case this is a very smart move on the part of Blue Jays management have to remember he’s only 19.
they have to fix this time manipulation that all these prospects are seeing.. SAD
Cut the bs Shapiro, you never had any intention of bringing Guerrero up for the first of season. You will hold both him and likely Bichette back until sometime in May because if they aren’t up with the big club for a certain number of games their first season then you maintain another year of control over them.
Its a cheap trick and its also why you signed Gavis and others to one year deals. And people wonder why players are happy to move on once they get the chance. How do you instill loyalty or intent when management pulls stunts like this..
Atkins and Shapiro probably want Bichette held down in AAA the entire year. I hope he tears it up and forces their hand. Bo’s been one of the best players at Jays camp this Spring and looks really good.
I agree with you. Because Gavis a pretty decent shortstop and people are surprised Jays only signed him for one year, but it gives them an excuse to keep Bichette down another year.
Saying Bichette and Guerrero aren’t ready is ridiculous they tore it up in AAA ball and the Arizona Fall league.
He won;t be up until mid to late May after he reaches the number of missed games to allow management to keep control of him one extra year.
He needs to miss 15 days for that to happen, so he could be up in mid April.
He’d need to be down until May to avoid getting an extra year of arbitration.
I figure it will be mid May, they took a lot of heat from the rest of the league last season when they didn’t bring him up in the Sept call-up for the same reason so if they just wait the minimum 15 days then the league and the players assoc will really be on them and lets face it image is all important to them
I know I’m late here, but I had to let things gather before I jumped on!
Vladdy doesn’t strike me as one to “fake” an injury, nor would he let his agent even try to talk him into any decisions. He’s too good a pedigree even at this age to let outsider change his work ethic and morals.
He’s injured and we all know (you all know) that the Jays are doing what EVERY OTHER teams MGMT has done with these type of prospects. Taking advantage of a system that’s broken and gaining another year of control. Period, that’s what this is and what it was always going to be, injury or not.
Furthermore, the injury is a blessing in disguise for MGMT because now they’ll want him fully recovered before he takes even 1 AB in the majors. He’ll start with AA Dunedin for rehab stints and maybe a couple in Buffalo. As long as he is fully functional, he’ll be with the team mid-late April anyway. At least now, Shapkins can use this as their excuse without drawing anymore obvious criticism as to why he was left off opening day roster.
I’m not suggesting the injury is a fake, he’s a hard hitter and he’s played a lot of ball what with last year and then the Arizona fall league. What I dislike is the comments that he’s not ready for the majors, maybe he isn’t but how will we know until he gets there, but last season they didn’t bring him or bichette up for the Sept. call ups because they had it planned out that if either came up last year for Sept they would lose that extra year of control. Now with this oblique strain they can just justify the move. But what does it do to the mind-set of a 19 yr. old player that all of MLB things he’s the top prospect. He’ll be up with the Jays by mid May.