Following a merciful coda to the offseason’s most protracted soap opera – a fine Philly offer, agreed upon Thursday, that finally plucked former Marlin catcher J.T. Realmuto from the clutches of South Beach – each of the oft-snubbed clubs offered their final say.
We’ll start in Atlanta, in whose court the Realmuto ball seemed to linger longest – indeed, per Jon Heyman of MLB Network, the team needed only to surrender two from the group of Austin Riley, Cristian Pache, and one top pitching prospect (of which Atlanta has several: each of Mike Soroka, Ian Anderson, Touki Toussaint, Bryse Wilson, Kyle Wright, and Joey Wentz are top 100 prospects in at least one major outlet). Ozzie Albies, said to be an essential part of any Realmuto deal with Atlanta, was never a demanded centerpiece, per Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic. Though certainly a substantial return, it’s a package that can’t be said, by any reasonable analysis, to be one that would have stripped the farm of the suddenly-conservative Braves to the bone.
The ask of the Dodgers, ever-cautious themselves, was two from a group of Dustin May, Keibert Ruiz, Gavin Lux, and Will Smith, per Heyman, in the same tweet. Ruiz and Smith, both catchers, likely won’t ever be on the field together at Chavez Ravine, and some outlets ranked neither May nor Lux inside the top 100. Both Heyman and Rosenthal concede that Cody Bellinger was the prize on which Miami initially laid its eyes, but it appears the team quickly swiveled to less-established names in the weeks to follow.
Rosenthal confirms earlier reports that the Fish first coveted outfielder Michael Conforto or Amed Rosario from the Mets, and adds that the team also needed a “top shortstop prospect,” presumably Andres Gimenez, to be added to the deal. It doesn’t appear the club pivoted to other names after the Mets balked, likely owing to the thinned-out version of the late-offseason Mets farm.
From the Yankees, the club did seek Gary Sanchez and Miguel Andujar, per Rosenthal, but only part of a “larger deal” that would obviously have included additional pieces. The Bombers were understandably reluctant to trade either, and the wheat of the Yankee farm – stocked mostly with high-upside, low-level types – wouldn’t have been enough to secure Realmuto’s services. The reported three-team with the Mets that would have sent Noah Syndergaard to New York was bandied about, but a copacetic swap was “never close.”
Cincinnati was both late to the fore and hesitant to move any of its top three prospects, per Rosenthal, and it doesn’t appear a deal was close there, either. Perhaps surprisingly, given the intense scrutiny of the talks, both the Twins and White Sox were “in the mix,” though prospective returns and/or offers are still in the dark.
In the end, Miami seems more than content with its return. The Fish regarded Will Stewart, the trade’s third piece, as Philadelphia’s second-best pitching prospect, per Rosenthal, ahead of near-unanimous top-100 hurler Adonis Medina, righty Spencer Howard, who placed 52nd on Keith Law’s list, and lefty JoJo Romero (66th overall, per Law). Sixto Sanchez, of course, has a decent shot to be an ace, and it’s certainly true that the club could reap more value in Jorge Alfaro alone than it would in the next two seasons with Realmuto behind the dish. The oft-pilloried asks, long said to far outstrip the two-year value of the game’s premier offseason trade target, were, in most respects, perfectly reasonable, and may have quickly been met in eras bygone. This, though, is the time for prospect hoarding, an age in which the control is treasured above all else, and those with even the slightest chance to be stars are stashed deep away, brought out only for the most earnest of window shoppers.
dewssox79
whoa
puigpower
That last line felt like the end of a fine novel. You have a way with words, sir!
mrnatewalter
Any baseball article dropping “copacetic” like it’s nothing is one worth reading.
jleve618
I felt the article was feeling itself a little bit much, but that’s just me.
EndinStealth
I agree
JJB
He’s not Jeff Todd, but then again, nobody is.
antibelt
Writing style definitely a cut above the others, no disrespect to the other writers.
bravesiowafan
I agree
KF
Yes, because he is more concise, isn’t extremely verbose, and doesn’t hit you over the head with clauses (usually). Reading Todd is worse than reading a humanities academic writing which isn’t meant to be accessible. Todd tries, but gets so wordy that readers lose the point entirely. Honestly, Todd is the worst writer on MLBTR.
LADreamin
Jeff Todd might have a unique writing style, but he’s our Todd. You respect this man. MLBTR gives us free quality content and we should be grateful. His background in law might play a part, but most of us like his insights. Thanks, Jeff.
Ty Bradley
thank you!
Chicks Dig the Longball
It was good, but it was no cum-slugger
KF
The last paragraph started and ended two nearly run-on sentences which should have been split into two sentences. They have some fun words, but in the print journalism I read from the major sources (papers and the big media outlets) the sentences are way more concise. I don’t think we can say someone has a way with words if they throw so many commas in a sentence in makes your head spin. I had an English professor who once said that if you use more than three commas in a sentence and you’re not listing things, you’re trying to look smarter than you really are.
Swinging Friars
Someone once told me that if you’re critiquing someone for trying to sound smart, you’re trying to look smarter than you really are
mirrors work buddy
lettersandnumbersonly
sphinctersayswhat?
EndinStealth
His point stands though. And didn’t you just do what you accused him of?
GareBear
He has a valid point. Run on sentences are brutal for readers and the message you try to convey can get lost in the mess. It wasn’t terrible in this case but it could have been condensed and still get the point across to his readers.
BlueSkyLA
Too many commas can be deadly to the reader, but too many double-dashes is the writer committing suicide.
GB85
“This, though, is the time for prospect hoarding, an age in which the control is treasured above all else, and those with even the slightest chance to be stars are stashed deep away, brought out only for the most earnest of window shoppers.”
I feel like this could be the opening paragraph to baseball’s version of Lord of the Rings.
LADreamin
During the dog days of the offseason, I can really appreciate having this style of writing to sit, read and digest while there’s very little news.
Carlcarlson
Well they are both about everybody wanting a ring.
nowayjose
This read was by far the best in a while. My man Ty has got it!
DarkSide830
well im glad they didnt ask for JoJo or Medina too. Stewart is much easier to part with.
southi
In my opinion the Phillies seemed to give up far less than the reported prices asked of other organizations. While Alfaro and Sanchez certainly have high upsides they are NOT without significant concerns as well.
seamaholic 2
Who’s not “without significant concerns”? Including Realmuto, who has never been as good with the bat as he was for the first half of last year, and is close to the worst framer in baseball?
AndyMeyer
Wrong. He was but is now among the best
rocky7
Evaluating a catcher based on sub par “framing” stats is one of the most inane, overrated statistics in the game today. Framing or “stealing strikes” is the mark of poor umpiring much more than elite catching skills.
Realmuto is a solid defensive receiver with good to very good skills at throwing out base runners which is much, much more important than hoping to deceive the umpire and “steal” a strike.
He’s also a pretty solid guy with the bat which all in all makes him an elite player at his position.
bobtillman
Yes, yes, yes and yes……
Samuel
@ rocky7;
I’ve written here that “pitch framing” is the most worthless stat in baseball.
Read a recent interview with Johnny Bench in which he was asked if there were any great Catchers. He brought up one – Buster Posey – said he called a great game. Nothing about hitting, throwing out runners, or passed balls.
Catching is all about calling and running a game, along with handling pitchers. Because the media and analytic people don’t understand the game (if they’re even watching), they latch onto any red herring to make themselves sound smart. Pitch framing is simply bogus. Start with only balls that were called strikes are accounted for. Any balanced stat would also factor in strikes that were called balls…..subtract one from the other and divide by the number of called pitches the Catcher handled.
Pitches move so much entering the strike zone that something a half-inch or less out of the zone can be difficult for even an experienced ump to call. They’re human. Every umpire has his zone. The players and managers know that. A great umpire is consistent, but like players, not all are (want to replace umps with computers – which often need to be re-calibrated? fine. replace the players with robots as well). The controversies occur when one team is favored.
The Catcher getting the call is often a beneficiary of something that has nothing at all to do with any actions he took.
BlueSkyLA
I agree, pitch framing is a junk stat. I think that makes three of us. A pitcher’s job is deception. The same methods that pitchers use to deceive hitters are the ones that deceive umpires. But this explanation is way too obvious for it to be generally accepted.
teddyj
Might as well replace the players with robots , because in the next 30 years about 40% of jobs will be replaced by robots’ I hope the robots will be buying tix and watching on TV.
bhambrave
Sixto is coming off an elbow injury. I hope it doesn’t turn out to be anything serious or chronic.
vacommish
Completely agree. Ask from the Braves and others was significantly higher than what they received.
angelsinthetroutfield
Great article. If there’s anything positive about this overlong charade of an off-season it’s the opportunity for pieces like this. Bravo
sandman12
Every umpire will tell you that they have identified a pitch as ball or strike before it reaches a catcher’s glove. Pitch-framing? Forget it.
metnoxious
Huh? They they had this trade chip that they wanted to trade for whatever reason. They took forever waiting for one club to step up and give them a kings ransom and none did. They got an ok return but they overplayed their hand. Not a Phil’s fan but they played this very nicely. Everyone knew that Jeter had to trade him. I thought that they’d get a much better return just not the ridiculous return Jeter wanted. Jeter better go to the Cashman School of the Deal.
James1955
metnoxious. Sour grapes from a Mets fan. Do you know what the offer offers were.?
petrie000
Or just accept that you can’t expect other teams to care about the pr impact of a trade.
Marlins seemed to go into this thinking they had to make up for the bomb that was the Yelich deal
mikeyank55
Noxious’ name came from his mother and his highschool guidance counselor who added to his report card, “Low IQ, zero common sense, often talks out of turn”.
His arrogance shows “GM denial”, like what he thought has any basis in reality. A Sandy Alderstein fan who’s heart was broken, noxious is peeing in his pants as the Marlins are one season away from pushing his team into the cellar.
SabrinasDaddy
Dodgers should have pulled the trigger! 2 prospects and an MLB ready OF or C, Bellinger not withstanding. I’m a firm believer that prospects are just that until proven and sadly most do not pan out. Now the Dodgers will have two catchers who hit a combined .179 last season in the lineup…
James1955
The reason why the Dodgers are successful is that they didn’t trade their best prospects.
NaiveYouAre
I’m with you 100%! Under the old regime, the Dodgers always traded their top prospects, and we all know how that ended up. I constantly complain about the current geek squad front office, but the bottom line is, they excel at evaluating talent in the lower levels, and I’m extremely happy they didn’t trade any of the four prospects that the Marlins were asking for. May is only going to get bigger and stronger (he already has), and he will likely be a #2 one day. Lux is a future AS 2nd baseman, as long as he continues to improve his defense. Ruiz is absolutely untouchable, and Smith, who is the weakest out of the bunch is a great athlete with an even better work ethic. He is the one that may not pan out unless he improves his hitting.
teddyj
Naiveyouare So 3 out of 4 are going to pan out big? 75% success rate with a #2 starter,, an AS 2B ,an untouchable catcher , not to shabby.
Vedder80
Most players in the minors don’t pan out. Most top prospects who stay healthy become at least a productive MLB player and costs next to nothing. Oh, and every superstar in MLB was a prospect once.
Chicks Dig the Longball
No, not all guys are considered prospects that turn into superstars. Jose Ramirez, Whit Merrifield, Matt Carpenter. Some guys are nothing more than organizational guys who just figured it out.
Prospectnvstr
M. Carpenter is the closest of the 3 players you mentioned to be a SUPERSTAR. The other 2 are solid players (aka regional stars) but definitely not SUPERSTARS.
Swinging Friars
How about Kluber then?
Backatitagain
Anyone who does not think Jose Ramirez is a superstar has been asleep for three years. Change your screen name to Rumplestiltskin.
rivera42
You can’t be serious. Jose Ramirez is a bonafide SUPERSTAR. He’s currently the best deal in baseball. Do yourself a favor and look up his numbers.
AndyMeyer
If you don’t think Jose Ramirez is a superstar, take a look at his numbers
The guy is a stud
Priggs89
I can’t tell if you’re joking… Carpenter closer to being a superstar than a legitimate star player in Ramirez? You might want to do some research before posting.
nymetsking
Jose Ramirez > Carpenter by far.
therealryan
Not to pile on here, but Jose Ramirez is the argument for 2nd best player in baseball behind Trout. He was top 5 in HR, SB, fWAR and led MLB in BB/K last season, all while being a good defender at 2B or 3B.
kenleyfornia2
Nope. What they asked the Dodgers for is way more than what the Phillies gave up. Were not chumps.
Backatitagain
Not really. The package from the Phillies exceeds the ask from the Dodgers.
kenleyfornia2
Cody Bellinger has more value than the whole Phillies package. Sixto only has a slightly higher value than May. Lux, Ruiz, Smith are far more valuable than the rest of the Phillies trade
AndyMeyer
So are you calling the Phillies chumps?
kenleyfornia2
No because the Marlins took Alfaro as a 2nd piece and way overvalued the other pitching prospect
AndyMeyer
I gotta call out the Dodgers on this one. You’ve been to the World Series two years in a row and you value your prospects more than acquiring an elite player to fit in your window.
If they didn’t want to include Bellinger, that’s totally understandable, then their offer probably wasn’t good enough to make the deal. Who knows really
AndyMeyer
And I’m not sure how you can say Sixto Sanchez is an overvalued prospect.
AndyMeyer
My apologies. You meant Stewart as the over valued prospect
kenleyfornia2
They have 2 really good catching prospects. Why would they trade for 2 years of Realmuto when they can bank on 1 of their own catchers being decent. Will Smith wipl be in the majors this year to help the MLB club
AndyMeyer
To give them a better chance to win a championship
jbigz12
Why trade for the best when you bank on one of the two catching prospects being decent? That’s essentially what you just said. The Dodgers had the depth to make this happen but they passed. Realmuto completed that team IMO. Maybe they save those guys for a deal for another ace level pitcher because getting a top flight catcher isn’t an option now. Regardless, I’ll take Realmuto or a Kluber, Bauer etc. over May and Smith or Ruiz if im the LAD and need to win a WS. Getting there is great but lets see them take it home. Those kind of moves make that happen.
kenleyfornia2
But its not just 1 catcher. Dustin May is extremely underrated and by far their best pitching prospect. Thats way more than what the Phillies actually gave up
jbigz12
It’s not really about what the Phillies gave up. That’s not the dodgers concern. It’s would Realmuto make our WS series chances significantly better in 2019 and 2020? Yes, I believe they would. You have to go for it when you have a chance. The dodgers have been just shy too many times. Guys like JT and Kershaw aren’t going to be good forever.
RIPprosports
I’m not losing sleep over it. We will be fine. Solid line up and farm system still in great shape. Let’s see where we are come AS break, then go from there.
DodgerBlueSince82
Totally agree! I want to see a championship back in LA but it’s also nice to see a team that has a legitimate chance every season also
NaiveYouAre
Exactly! I like the team they have, and we all know they will make some trades after the AS break if they feel they need to. They always improve the team in the second half, and this year will be no different.
jbigz12
The Dodgers have also been the bridesmaid far too often recently. This deal made too much sense for them. Instead of Grandal or Realmuto you’re going into the year with Barnes. He gave you nothing with the stick the last 2 playoffs and was pretty clearly the biggest position of need for LA. I can’t imagine come July 31 you need anything more than you need a catcher. I fully expect them to win the division with or without a better catcher but this is about building a WS team. There was one shot at Realmuto and they missed. Highly likely no one of that caliber will be available in July.
BlueSkyLA
That’s just the thing. It isn’t about building a world series team. Well to the fans it might be, but not to ownership and management. Stan Kasten made that totally clear just a couple of weeks ago when he described how season ticket sales are the only measure of success he needs to worry about.
RIPprosports
Key sentence in your comment is “building a WS team.” Friedman has brought us to the WS 2 years in a row in his short time with the organization. It takes time. Just wait until all the pieces start falling together. Yeah it sucks losing the WS twice, but we are just getting started. Not worried.
BlueSkyLA
I’m beginning to wonder if I’m the only one who read that interview with Kasten. It’s all there, in plain English. We are not just getting started, this is where were are, and where we will stay, by design. Kasten is running the Dodgers organization exactly the same way he did in Atlanta.
RIPprosports
The plan to make it every year to the WS and lose. That takes some skill if they can plan and execute that every year. Guess it will do.
BlueSkyLA
The plan is to field a team good enough to allow them to keep raising ticket prices. Whether that team is good enough to win a World Series or even get that far doesn’t seem to figure into those calculations one bit. Just read Kasten’s remarks, and add that to his record running the Braves organization, and see if you can find any other way of interpreting what he said. Maybe I missed something, Feel free to tell me what it is.
jbigz12
Waiting for all the pieces to fall in place isn’t exactly a winning strategy. You cannot wait forever. Guys like JT and Kershaw aren’t getting any younger. Sometimes you need to make that moves that puts you over the top. Particularly when it doesn’t impact your 2019 ML roster in anyway. Odds are you’re not going to see May or Ruiz make any meaningful contribution to the 2019 Dodgers.
kenleyfornia2
The problem with that idea is that they have done plenty to put a championship team on the field. Darvish and Machado were brought in to try and get them over the hump. Its not Kastens fault Jansen and Kershaw couldnt finish the job in game 2/5 vs Houston. Or Roberts and Hill could not get on the same page in game 4 last season.
BlueSkyLA
Exactly. As some pieces fall into place, others fall out of place. The trick is knowing when to push some chips forward, and it’s hard to argue that this front office has known when or how to do it. It’s hardly inconceivable that they never will because it just isn’t the plan. I am still waiting for someone to point out what I missed in Kasten’s remarks. Have we forgotten what he said? Do I need to provide a link?
RIPprosports
I see them cleaning up the clubhouse and salaries. I think its a process, and won’t get done in a couple years. Everyone wants it now now now. I think its just started for the Dodgers and we just happened to reach the WS 2 years in and row, and think its only going to get better! Have faith
BlueSkyLA
If I posted that link would you read it? I feel like we are talking about completely different things.
phenomenalajs
Maybe they’d offer the Mets something for d’Arnaud who’s from So. Cal.
mack22 2
Just glad it’s over
Steven Chinwood
Did it really effect you that badly?
chesteraarthur
Did his post effect you badly?
Rounding3rd
This thread affected me badly. lol
Bocephus
His post asking him how it effected him that badly obviously affected you this badly.
RIPprosports
Word!
stretch123
Out of all the teams, I think the Dodgers were the one who lost out the most. Miami would’ve definitely accepted a Keibert Ruiz/Dustin May package with a lower prospect tossed in… its not like they don’t have controlled young arms already in the majors like Urias and Buehler, in addition to rotation staples like Maeda and Kershaw. Even with giving up Ruiz, they’d have had Will Smith as well as Austin Barnes as catching depth behind JTR.
As a Marlin fan though, I’m happy with the return. As long as Sixto stays healthy, he seems like a definite ace and pitching wins championships. Stewart seems like a solid No 4 starter and Alfaro will be an everyday catcher for a long time in my view.
chesteraarthur
There really is no such thing as a definite ace prospect. But if you like the return that’s good. Fish fan’s need things to look forward to.
Fred Mandy
yes, all 6 of them.
drewa
The more I think, the more I like the deal . Go Phillies
RIPprosports
I’d rather bank on 2 prospects (Ruiz or Smith) then 1 coming through and playing well at the major league level.. Dodgers will cont. to be successful w/o JTR.
bravesfan
Basically the braves had to give up more than anyone…. what a freaking joke
Syndergaarden Cop
marlins are a straight garbage organization
antibelt
More WS championships in the last 25 years than the Mets…so.
mikeyank55
Hey Belt-you just tightened Noah’s pony tail. Now there is NO blood running in his head. IQ was low before and is now non existent.
metsochist
Despite the name, he’s a Braves fan, not a Mets fan.
APaul
More WS championships than almost 3/4 of the league in that timespan
sandman12
with a couple WS championships
Z-A 2
Marlins have the most WS championships in the since 1980 right?
petrie000
Well, Braves could afford to give up the most, so might as well ask
Don’t fault the Braves for saying no, though.
seamaholic 2
How so? Alfaro is better than Riley (especially so since he’s already proven in the big leagues). Sanchez is a better prospect than Pache. And Stewart could be about the same as whatever 3rd piece the Braves were asked for. Braves totally blew this and the Phils paid more than the Marlins wanted from Atlanta.
RunDMC
They were asking for Soroka (or another top SP) and he is ranked at/near/above Sixto Sanchez on most lists – even after missing the end of 2018 from a shoulder injury. To say that Stewart is “about the same as whatever 3rd piece the Braves were asked for” should show you the depth of the Braves farm system. All 3 (if including Touki, Soroka) would have been in the top-50 of all prospects.
Sanchez is a high risk especially when he’s never pitched more than 100 IP/season. Pache’s floor is higher than most prospects considering he’s been called the MiLB’s best defenseman for 2 years – all while adding power and more plate discipline. If Pache continues to mature with his bat, he would replace Inciarte and/or make a great centerpiece for a blockbuster deal. He shouldn’t be considering a secondary piece in any deal.
abravesfan 2
I think the Braves only had to give up Riley or Pache with another pitcher…which is relatively similar in value to what the Phillies end up giving up.
Alfaro having some big league record is either a good or bad thing (he’s exposed to have a high K rate) compared to Pache (defensive value is a high floor) and Riley (also could have high K rate but who knows).
That’s a long list of pitchers listed with a few that’s way more valuable than Sixto (for being essentially MLB ready) and a couple (surprised that Wentz is listed) that is further away.
In the end, I think the Phillies overpaid, particularly considering their opportunity cost (potentially using these prospects to get Trout if he’s on the market) because their farm is now a lot more barren. As a Braves fan, I would only have been willing to do a Riley/Wentz offer.
Chicks Dig the Longball
Bro, no. Other than Sanchez being better than Pache. Everything you said was wrong. Joey Wentz who is like the 8th pitcher in the Braves organization is far better than Stewart. Riley has been a much better hitter with much better peripherals than Alfaro.
sandman12
far better? I’d say they are similar,
Fred Mandy
Semanaholic, that is overstating at best. Alfaro has been shown to be flawed, and Sanchez is a lottery ticket, albeit talented.
Questionable_Source
If Alfaro is so great, why would they trade him and 2 other guys for another catcher?
braves28
Alfaro is better than Riley as of today due to his premium position and already having major league experience. Riley does have higher upside though. There is also some concern around Alfaro’s ability to maintain his offense on a consistent basis. Further complicating matters is the Braves lack of depth in position players. Riley is the only player in the system right now who looks like he could take over at 3B which probably makes him difficult to trade.
Simply stating that Sanchez is a better prospect than Pache is a bit disingenuous.. Technically true in terms of ranking (mlb.com), but also true in terms of ranking is that Pache is right behind him. Also, Sanchez has yet to advance past high A ball which means he’s still at a very high risk level. Not to mention the arm issues he has this past season. Several other names were also mentioned which could be used in comparison to Sanchez. Many of those had similar prospect rankings while also being closer to a MLB debut and some have already made that debut.
Your comment on Stewart is unsubstantiated. The truth is Stewart was a throw in with nominal value. We don’t know who a potential 3rd piece from the Braves would have been, but it most likely would have been someone like Stewart. A low upside player who still has a long way to go before even thinking about a potential MLB debut..
The Braves didn’t blow anything and the Phils didn’t pay more than Miami asked from Atlanta.. The truth is the Phillies were just a better match because they were able t use a guy at the same position of Realmutto as one of their big trade chips, and one of the big trade pieces asked for from the Braves plays a position where there is not any organizational depth. I also think the Braves may be hesitant to part with too much pitching talent in the minors because, despite the apparent depth in the minors, there isn’t any depth in the big league rotation. The 3 returning starters from 2018 all have warts so the team is actually going to need at least a few of those prospects to be productive arms for the team.
stymeedone
All the Braves had to do was give up more than what Philly did. Instead, the Phillies gave up more than the Braves offered, in the eyes of the Marlins. That’s how trades work. Maybe you value Atlanta’s prospects higher than they are valued by the Marlins.
RunDMC
Possibly, but I think that’s the point that many are missing. ATL still needs more time to see who makes a leap forward. Riley still needs some time in AAA after missing some time last year due to injury. Soroka looked great in his cup of coffee, but he missed time from a shoulder injury that many feel like won’t be a problem. Touki looked good at times, but wild – much like Newcomb. Bryse Wilson was great in his 1 start – but not enough to boost his trade stock or deem him “untradeable” or having a rotation spot. Joey Wentz is still very raw and inconsistent, though his ceiling is higher than most. Frankly, I feel like that’s why AA has been so hesitant to moving anyone because we are still waiting on anyone to stake their claim. If/when they do that, they’ll be more valuable than most received in a return. Hopefully some guys step up this year and distance themselves from the pack, which will make it easier who to keep and who to trade, while also boosting their trade value (i.e. Bryse Wilson), while risking losing trade value.
Fred Mandy
agreed, and it seems like AA learned to appreciate the value of depth while in LA.
Jean Matrac
Needing time to see who leaps forward is an issue for all teams to some extent. Every team has at least a couple of prospects they’re hoping will develop. But teams should have some kind of handle on their guys after a couple years. I can see AA holding on to as many pitching prospects as possible due to the injury risk of the position. But what this says to me, if the Braves aren’t over-valuing their prospects, is that AA thinks this team isn’t ready to win now.
Jon429
I bet AA thinks this team can win now, heck they won 90 games with pretty much what they have now, plus they added Donaldson.
Now taking all factors into consideration, like the international sanctions, loss of prospects, a new GM that needed time to learn the system and it makes sense for him to spend another year on player development rather than blow up the farm to try to win now (or just win the offseason as many fans seem to want him to do).
jbigz12
Needing time to see who takes a leap forward isn’t a one way street. When other organizations see who does/doesn’t they’ll change their own viewpoints on guys accordingly. He’s been in the org for awhile now and should have a handle on his guys. The NLE got a whole lot better this offseason and if not dealing some of your pitching surplus is to blame for a division crown lost I personally wouldnt be very happy.
Jon429
Sorry to break it to you but not dealing some of their pitching surplus isn’t going to make or break the Braves for the 2019 season. Who cares about how other organizations see the pitching prospects? I don’t think AA is hoarding them so he can trade them at max value.
Braves were lucky to win the division last year as their window had not really opened yet which should’ve been obvious at how overmatched they were in the postseason. It’s still not open so any fan going into the season thinking they should be division favorites is deluding themselves.
jbigz12
The Braves have a young budding superstar in Acuna and a stud in Freddie Freeman. THey also added a former MVP in the middle of their lineup and Albies could also be an impactful player. They aren’t pushovers by any means. Adding Realmuto could’ve been the piece that won them a surely more competitive division.
Jean Matrac
Trading the proposed players named in the article is hardly blowing up the farm.
baseballfanforever
I really think Realmuto is going to have an incredible year away from Miami—just like Yelich went crazy with the bat. They both were far better on the road throughout their careers. I think this is a big mistake by the Braves. They should have tried harder to make a deal. Giving up some talent would not have hurt them considering they would have the best offensive catcher in the majors for two years — having an even better 2 years than last year.
inkstainedscribe
The position players the Marlins allegedly demanded play the two positions where the Braves have the least MLB-ready depth after 2019: 3B and OF. Pache and Riley could be busts, of course, but the Braves don’t have many more somewhat advanced options in their system. Moving either one would have hurt more than moving two top pitching prospects.
I’d suggest moving Albies or Camargo would have made as much sense as moving Pache or Riley (and by doing so, any other pieces the Braves had to include would have been throw-ins rather than top-flight prospects).
imgman09
…….only In your eyes,it’s all about being the best match with the other team
msmithwa
The Padres were snubbed at being included as a snubbed team.
C est la vie
Ty Bradley
Yeah, reports on what they were/weren’t willing to include were scarce
lowtalker1
Still waiting on the padres news and what the offer for jtr was
Padres2019ha
Haha was gonna say the same thing. One day we’ll be relevant. However mlbtr has done a great job of Padre updates. I think it’s safe to say Padre fans have arrived, and contribute a lot to this site.
Realmuto for anything less than Mejia and Baez would have been an overpay, without extension.
You have to overpay for stars with prospects, but we’re just not there yet. Very concerned that if we don’t sign Machado or Harper, it will be very difficult to sign Arenado/Rendon or Cole next year. And Trout,Lindor, Sale the following.
Swinging Friars
Man, Mejia and Baez seems like way more than what the Phils gave up
Grizalt
Mejia is ranked one spot higher than Sanchez on MLBPipeline. Alfaro was ranked 10 spots higher on the 2017 list (the last one before he graduated) than Baez is on the 2019 one and has gone on to be decent if not spectacular in the Majors. And it sounds like the Marlins are bullish on Will Stewart. Padres would have had to include at least one more piece if Mejia and Baez were the centerpieces.
teddyj
Padres sign Machado or Harper , Arenado , Rendon or Cole , Trout Lindor and Sale. I am laughing so hard that my side is hurting.
codylg
This article is so well written.
Great insight.
walls17
i like the return the marlins got, but man, i love the braves prospects more than any of the other teams mentioned here and it would have been a much better get for the marlins to get one or two prospects from them
stymeedone
The Marlins don’t seem to have added value to the prospect because they are from Atlanta’s system, however. They took the best offer. Doubt we will ever know a precise offer from Atlanta. Flowers is a solid catcher. Why complain?
jbigz12
Flowers was an okay part time catcher last year. Catching arguably was and is still is their biggest question mark. Realmuto would’ve helped a ton and keeping him away from a division rival all the more beneficial.
HaloShane
I question if the Angels even knew J.T. was available?
angelsinthetroutfield
Jeff Fletcher chimed in on what the likely cost of a JTR deal would have been for the Halos. Adell & Barria plus an additional piece what he thinks it would have took. I’m a fan of Realmuto but it’s not worth it at that price.
phantomofdb
Obviously I’m in the minority but I found this writing style distractingly flowery. But you do you i guess!
DadsInDaniaBeach
Wow, really? I thought like others that it was well written…I really appreciate when the writer doesn’t dumb it down..
RunDMC
I wouldn’t call the writing bad, but it’s different. It feels as if he’s writing in verse, like T.S. Eliot – to a rhythm, which I’m not readily use to on MLBTR, for whatever reason. Phrases like “to the fore” are interesting, but if anything read as “flowery” – that’s it.
Chicks Dig the Longball
I agree. It is needlessly pedantic. Anyone can make a simple topic sound smart. It take real genius to make complex ideas sound simple.
Swinging Friars
you sound simple
bhambrave
I wouldn’t have minded Riley, Allard and a 3rd, lesser prospect from the Braves. It would be hard to give up one of the Braves’ top two position prospects and one of the top tier of pitching prospects.
todd76
Glad the Braves didn’t do that. That would’ve been a terrible trade.
IloveMACfootball
Not a fan of this writing style. I come here for the news, not, you know, whatever this is.
DadsInDaniaBeach
””whatever this is””
what this is, is a writer treating us like educated adults..
phantomofdb
Well, it’s not even that he used difficult words, it’s just written in an intentionally ornate way to *sound* skillful. Like I said above… flowery. There’s only one “big” word in there… copacetic… the rest are just there for fluff. I’m not gonna throw a fit or threaten to stop reading the site over it or anything. But it was definitely a bit distracting.
xtraflamy
To each their own! I found it refreshing.
Swinging Friars
The comics section is always available for you…
Chicks Dig the Longball
“Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don’t know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use.”
― Ernest Hemingway
xtraflamy
Hemingway’s and Faulkner’s rivalry was well earned. Not really seeing the equivalency here.
Swinging Friars
He thinks he’s a genius because he talks “dumb”
How are people getting triggered by this story? A well written, thoughtful article lands here on Saturday morning…….Gog Danit 2 h e ll!!!
Some people don’t need to try to sound smart, they just are. Are we really talkin chit on the guy for coming across as “smart”??
chesteraarthur
You can’t trade Will Smith out of LA, he must stay in the wild wild west.
Knowthemarket
So the Marlins asked for Sanchez AND Andujar (albiet multiple pieces from both sides) from the Yankees, Billinger from the Dodgers but DIDN’T ask for Albies, or any other major league piece, from the Braves? So according to Rosenthal the Marlins sought a major league piece from EVERYONE…except the Braves. A division rival. I doubt the legitimacy of Rosenthal whether he really knows the truth or not
JTR is only a little better than a rental and the Braves have to be conservative with their prospects. They are owned by Liberty Media. Corporate America is not going to spend big money on players so prospects are the only coin the Braves have
But even worse than that are the international penalties. The Braves don’t have access to young talent that the other teams do and so have to be careful. The farm in low A is already thin because of this and that’s what will hit AA and above in the next few years.
AndyMeyer
“Only a little better than a rental” LOL
k26dp 2
“Though certainly a substantial return, it’s a package that can’t be said, by any reasonable analysis, to be one that would have stripped the farm of the suddenly-conservative Braves to the bone.”
I appreciate the recap, but the Braves were absolutely correct in not giving up this kind of package. It’s not “hoarding prospects” to not want to trade 3 players who between them have 18 seasons of control that are close to being major league contributors or 2 seasons of a player who is very good, but is only special in relation to a terrible crop of major league catchers.
Prospectnvstr
Very VERY well said!!!
bobtillman
Other teams might kick themselves for this. JT is an impact talent at an impact position, and playing games that actually mean something could bring out the best in him, not to mention the generous ball park. Prospects that are 2-3 years out from contributing is really a small price to pay, especially for a team whose window is opening.
I wouldn’t have surrendered Wright, whose potential top-of-rotation capable. But both Pache and Riley have warts. AA may seriously have missed an opportunity here.
Same with LA. There’s serious questions if Ruiz is a catcher; Lux hasn’t shown he can hit anywhere but the extremely friendly CAL league. I might have taken May off the table, but wouldn’t have worried about the other two.
Tampa has the prospect capital to match Philly’s offer, and could have spun Zunino to LA. JT would hit cleanup in that rather skinny lineup. And. most important for the Rays, he only makes 2M more than Zunino; the gap in their relative performances is greater than 2M.
JT may be the best of a poor lot (catchers), but he is the best. Philly did well here.
RunDMC
Pache is 1-2 years out. Riley could be starting 3B out of ST on most any other team that doesn’t have Donaldson at the hot corner, but they want him to work on his plate discipline and possibly OF defense (if he could be an upgrade at COF). The only name being reported that is 2 years away is Wentz. Ian Anderson could be 1-2 years away, but definitely not 3 without a dismal/injury season. Everyone else has a chance to have a spot out of ST, but most likely won’t considering they will want some of them getting regular IPs at AAA.
tac3
At the same time, how often does the best catcher in baseball become available? When their window is open, will there be a Realmuto available? Once the Braves signed Donaldson, they should’ve went all in for Realmuto. One could think it may possibly have helped signed a the OF help they needed. The Braves have a nice farm, but it is filled with 80% arms. I can see why they didn’t want to put Riley in becuse of this, but I would’ve given the pitching needed to get this done. Overall I think it is a missed opportunity for them. They can’t compete with the rest the division in terms of payroll . Can Riley play the OF? If he is so close being ready, odd they’d sign Donaldson if Riley can’t play the OF. If they also traded for Realmuto without Riley, that would have been nice for the Braves fans. If I’m a Braves fan, I’m pretty pee’d at the FO
Jon429
Best catcher in baseball means nothing when you only have him for 2 years and the “window” really opens the year he walks to FA.
RunDMC
They don’t need to compete with the rest of the division in payroll. They need to spend wisely, which is what they’re doing. 2018 was big in finding core players that will be inexpensive. PHI hasn’t been nearly as successful, thus the stupid money comments. They need to spend stupidly to compete. Why is it odd to get a potential MVP bat for 1 year when Riley has NEVER played a MLB game and missed significant time last year with injuries? Remember, Riley is just a prospect – a good one with a lot of power, but holes in his swing that scare the front office. Those holes are going to be amplified by MLB pitchers, if he doesn’t work on it. I’m a Braves fan and I’m psyched. We lost very little and brought back a lot. Now, Albies/Acuna/Swanson have had a taste of the playoffs and the rest of the league. We have more vet leadership from McCann/Kakes and money and prospect capital still to spend. We have barely seen the tip of the iceberg of some of our pitching prospects.
Yes, missing out on Realmuto stinks, but I’m glad we get to see more of Riley/Pache and our top arms that we would have been facing for years to come. Much would rather face Alfaro/Sixto.
kenleyfornia2
Expect his bat is only impact because the standards for the position are so low. If he declines offensively in any way, with only 2 years left of control it would be an awful trade.
bobtillman
His basic .800 OPS is unlikely to decline, given his age. And again, playing in meaningful games, in a friendly park, with a big payday only 2 years away, are HUGE factors.
You don’t have to be the best, just better than the rest.
rocky7
Well here’s some news…..the standards for all positions across the league as a whole are low so why make a case against JT. This is obvious with the type of money borderline to average players are getting paid fort their skill sets
Good players tend to play well and even better when playing for something, which he probably will get the chance to do with the Phillies in the NL East.
kenleyfornia2
Dont pretend offense at catcher isn’t painfully bad. Worse than any other spot by far
RIPprosports
Where did you get Ruiz is a suspect catcher? It’s easy to say a big reason they didn’t do the trade is because of him as the future catcher. Plus Smith, one of them should pan out.
sandman12
Tampa Bay had the most to gain and the least painful loss of prospects.
1) An AL team could utilize Realmuto best because you want his bat in the lineup every single game.
2) Prospects like Brujan, Brandon or Nate Lowe, Solak, Fox were all disposable because of the depth chart ahead of them. All/any of them would have helped the Marlins more than what they got.
bobtillman
I’d be skeptical about giving Brujan, the rarest of Rays’ birds; he’s a REAL second baseman. And Fox is almost ready, and not 1/100 the adventure Adames is at shortstop (Willy needs to be an OFer; no one doubts the bat, but the throwing? YEECH!!).
But ya, any of the three Lowes, or all of them for that matter, and a Solak (another poor fielder) would have easily got it done, it seems. And as you noted, with Franco the wunderkid on his way, the system is deep. A little thin on pitchers (due to injury as much as anything), which the Fish obviously wanted. I wouldn’t have considered McKay or Libertore, but anybody else could be had.
HUGE mistake moving Smith, who grew into an impact talent last year, for Zunino, whose basically a backup. That’s going to go down as bad the Marquez-Dickerson disaster.
Bob M.
You forgot about Spencer Howard, who Keith Law just ranked #52 overall.
Miami literally has got to be the only organization on the planet that would have Will Stewart anywhere in the Phillies top 5 pitchers. They have a group of about 8 starters, on the cusp of the big leagues (or had a taste last year) and got a kid who is about 4 years away. Jojo Romero and Ranger Suarez would have pitched in Miamis rotation this season and both are southpaws.
Ty Bradley
you’re right. good catch.
bhambrave
The Braves have a lot of international allotment that they really can’t use. They could have traded, say, $2M in Int as part of the deal. Riley, Allard, Jackson and $2M in Int money.
RunDMC
If they’re reporting Riley, Pache and one of the top SP prospects, your proposal wouldn’t have gone far. Allard is in the 2nd tier of prospects and not in the top-100. Jackson has fallen out of favor and most likely couldn’t be their starting C like Alfaro is now.
bhambrave
It wasn’t Riley and Pache and a top pitching prospect, It was two of those three. Adding the $2M Int would possibly offset the drop from top pitcher to 2nd tier pitcher. If not Jackson, then a second pitching prospect.
It doesn’t matter now anyway.
greg1234567
How about San Diego?
lowtalker1
You forgot the padres
Comrade Tipsy McStagger
No — they weren’t forgotten. The author briefly addresses this in the comments, essentially declaring that there just wasn’t enough information on the Padres offer to include them.
AstrosWS20
What about the Astros? Until the past few weeks they seemed to be firmly in the discussion and had long been thought of as the favorite to land Realmuto for about a year.
Saint Chris
I don’t believe the Astros would ever consider trading Preston Tucker or Forest Whitley and to make the trade for JTR happen one would likely have to be included
AstrosWS20
I get that, but I would expect to see them mentioned in the write-up with the 6 other teams. I know Tucker or Whitley needed to be involved, but I wonder who else might have been discussed and how far the talks got.
petfoodfella
I just don’t understand why Atlanta felt Pache and Ian Anderson was to much.
tac3
I really believed Realmuto was ATL bound. Very surprised the Phillies were able to pry him away from MIA for what they did. I think that is a big miss by atl. Prospects are prospects. Realmuto in the Braves lineup would have been tough to face. Albies, Freeman, Acuna, Realmuto, Markakis, And Donaldson. Glad it didn’t. I guess the atl gm doesn’t see this year as the best window. Maybe next year they sell off some of the prospexfs for proven mlb players
Saint Chris
Agreed. The Braves have how many top-100 pitching prospects? This was as much a coup for the Phillies as it was a complete failure for the Braves, I believe.
RunDMC
It’s a total failure if Riley and Pache do nothing and Realmuto continues to ascend. Remember, they demanded Acuña for him last year when we said no. Now Acuña is one of the most valuable players in all of MLB.
Saint Chris
Trading Acuna was an obvious no can do, even during last off-season.
jbigz12
Acuna was also the consensus #1 prospect in baseball at that time. Don;t get me wrong Pache and Riley are solid prospects in their own regard but they are certainly not Acuna/
sandman12
It’s ridiculous. Donaldson for $23M. Freeman in his prime. Acuna ascending. And you go with two old plow horses at catcher? Huge fail for Atlanta. They should have been delighted to forfeit Riley, Andersons and more.
Jon429
As a Braves fan I wouldn’t have been delighted. Trading away that much for 2 years of JTR? No thanks. Adding only JTR wouldn’t put the Braves ahead of the rest of the NL East this season. They have too many question marks in the rotation, bullpen and lineup as it is. They would need to make a few big trades and FA signings to go with this, which obviously didn’t happen. The question fans should be asking is why didn’t the Dodgers beat the Phillies package? JTR would’ve made them pretty much a complete team.
teddyj
Plow horses worked pretty well for the Bosox. Just saying.
RBI
If you don’t understand why Atl would not include Pache and Ian Anderson, then you don’t know talent or value. Anderson is ranked as the best of Atl pitching prospects by many people who make a living knowing talent and value and he does not have the HUGE injury risk that Sanchez has. Trades are not subject to the theory that just because you have a lot of riches you should pay more! Trades are about what is the best return (price) you can get, and the Marlins clearly believed the Philly deal met their ridiculous idea of value better than Atl. This illustrates why the Marlins could trade away an entire All-star outfield (including an MVP and a HR champion), and not have even one top 100 prospect to show for those 3 trades. What rubes! Marlins got 3 beans for 3 star OF’ers! They know zero about talent or value. And, they clearly don’t care about selling tickets with the crap product they will call a team for the foreseeable future since the only Top 100 prospect they had before the JTR deal was #99, an over rated Cuban refugee they signed this past summer.
tac3
Interesting to see that the Marlins believe that Stewart was the Phillies 2nd best pitching prospect behind Sixto. Did they miss Howard and Morales? If they had the chance at Howard and passed, I think that is a huge miss on the Marlins part.
Will see, but Sixto has his red flags. He could be the ace pundits believed, but he does have a concerning elbow injury. Was shutdown this year after 5 starts or so. showed up to camp out of shape for professional standards. As a Phillies phan who has followed the minors, there were whispers that sixto could be switched to the bullpen. Reason? His secondary pitches are behind in development. It will be a major swing and miss from the Marlins FO if so. Obviously, he has time to develop them, I mention this for the Marlins fans who will track him. That will be the key for hI’m. He throws an easy 100mph pitch .. but it was still getting hit in the low minors becuse of the secondary pitches.
Will see, I’ll be watching Stewart from afar compared to Howard and Morales. Obviously sixto too. Hopefully the Marlins reads him to an AL team!
Jean Matrac
No, the Marlins did not “miss Howard and Morales”. That’s a bit absurd. It just shows that each team has their own evaluations of players that do not match published prospects lists. But I think the Phillies did well, and the Braves may regret not making that deal. No one knows right now, but IMO the Braves are over-valuing their prospects.
mj-2
I would have been fine dealing Pache and a pitcher depending on which one.
I don’t understand everyone’s willingness to deal Riley though
It’s like people think Donaldson makes Riley expendable. Donaldson is gonna be gone in a year and this organization has had real difficulty filling that position ever since Chipper retired. Camargo served admirable last year for sure and was probably the best we’ve had at 3B since Chipper. But it’s clear they don’t trust Camargo long term as 3B
So really why would you trade Riley who is finally someone who has a good chance to cement themselves into that position with good productivity year after year?
The Braves biggest mistake was failing to sign Grandal this offseason though. Realmuto should have never even been the primary target.
Saint Chris
I don’t think it’s “they don’t trust Camargo.” I think its more that they don’t trust Dansby Swanson and Camargo can play shortstop.
VegasSDfan
I actually feel like the Padres 2nd tier prospects are better than the group Miami landed. This trade was a steal.
Saint Chris
I’m amazed the Braves wouldn’t give up Pache and one or two of their pitching prospects for Realmuto, especially considering he landed at a division rival. Realmuto is a good hitter, but, much like Yelich before him, will likely look 5x better leaving Marlins Park. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him hit 35hr this year in Philly.
Prospectnvstr
Why would they give up a kid who just graduated to AA at the age of 19 and 1-2 top pitching prospects to a division rival for possibly ONLY 2 yrs of JTR? i for one am glad that they didn’t pull the trigger on this deal.
Jean Matrac
Because 19 year-olds that just graduated to AA are more of a crap shoot, even if they have looked good so far. Some guys who looked good as teenagers just don’t develop. Projecting players is the hardest thing that GMs do, and for someone that young and that far from MLB, no one knows whether he’ll be even MLB average.
And when you have that many pitching prospects, why not move one to acquire a proven, quality piece?
But, if AA is not over-valuing his prospects, which is entirely possible, then I think he thinks this team isn’t ready to win now. He’s looking a year or two down the road, which is completely reasonable if that’s his read on the club.
sandman12
Because they want to make an effort to win a WS for Atlanta?
Saint Chris
There was just a recent article about the best Astros prospects of 2006 and what happened to them. They had all of these vaunted, sure-to-succeed prospects, and you know what happened to 95% of them? They never lived up to the hype. Most of them never even made it to the ML level. I can understand liking your prospects, but, realistically, most are likely to never succeed. Realmuto has already proven he can play at the highest level.
The Tigers, through their years of contention, traded away all their prospects. They traded for Miguel Cabrera and Max Scherzer and Carlos Guillen. They traded for Anibal Sanchez and Doug Fister and David Price. Who did they give away of consequence? Drew Smyly? Willy Adames? Cameron Maybin? Jacob Turner? Prospects are nice, but I’d rather have the all-stars and future hall of famers.
martiny44
The final clause of the last paragraph is gross.
zachary08
Screw the Phillies, Marlins,
Jean Matrac
I think a good poll could be spun off this article.
VegasSDfan
Had the Marlins traded him last offseason, they would have received a better package
VegasSDfan
The players they received, 2 of the 3 wont be ML players. The lowest level prospect is their best chance.
sandman12
I read that Atlanta offered Riley and Soroka at the deadline.
DodgerBlueSince82
So the Marlins wanted any 2 of these 4 players from the Dodgers for a Realmuto deal…May, Lux, Ruiz, Smith. This is a heck of a lot less than I had previously heard the Marlins were asking for(Bellinger included with multiple top prospects). Its tough to know for sure whether or not these proposed deals or asking prices are 100% accurate after a deal has already been made, but if this really was the case…
I would have pulled the trigger for Smith and Lux. LA has a deep and highly talented group of catching prospects so giving up one of the 2 wouldn’t have hurt much. Lux is a solid prospect on the rise, but if I had to throw in one of the other three remaining players, I would have taken my chances giving him up. Only giving up 2 top prospects would have been a gamble worth taking IMO.
It would have been nice to add JTR to the Dodgers lineup but either way… The Dodgers should be in the hunt for another NL Pennant and chance for a WS Champ this season and beyond with the team they have. We shall see
jbigz12
Smith and Lux or May seems like an obvious yes. I get that May is a prospect on the rise as well but the Dodgers do not lack pitching depth and you can only start one of their two prospect catchers down the line. Realmuto made so much sense in LA i can’t believe it wasn’t done if that was the cost. Honestly even a Ruiz/Lux package should’ve been done. The Dodgers maybe more than anyone in baseball need to get over the hump and win a WS. There’s really no reason for half measures at this point. They’ve been right there too many times.
mikefetters
I enjoyed the writing style as well.
James1955
Some of your best trades are the ones you don’t make. Trading prospects are some of the worst trades in history. Also, we could traded this player, which the team doesn’t want. In theory you have the perfect team. On the field you don’t.
Carlcarlson
Great example of that is the Mets not trading Flores for Gomez.
DodgerBlueSince82
Obviously there have been many proposed trades over the years involving top prospects, that if completed at the time would have drastically changed the fortunes of those particular team’s histories. But history only paints the picture for that which has already happened
tac3
Here is Will Stewart,LHP that the Marlins FO/Scouts believe is the Phillies #2 pitching prospect…. what am I missing? Howard, Medina, JoJo, Irvin, DLS, Morales, and others seem to easily be ahead of Stewart.
That has to be a misprint. One team is grossly wrong on this. You don’t give up your two top pitching prospects plus Afaro for 2 years of Realmuto. So either the Marlins got a Steal and the Phillies don’t know what they have or the Marlins scounts need replaced while the phillies FO couldn’t make the deal fast enough.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=MstfzF-nu6E
Thronson5
Glad it’s over with and as much as I hate that the Dodgers didn’t get him I’m glad they didn’t give up Bellinger for him and I’m glad he stayed out of the NL West, already hearing the Giants night be the favorites to land Harper now so if they landed Harper and another NL West team got JTR I would’ve lost it lol.
SoCalBrave
My problem with this article is that I’m sure the only ones releasing this info are from the Marlin’s side. It’s easy for them to say Albies was never demanded after the fact. The only reason for them to release the names of their so called “target” players is to minimize the backlash for how poorly they handled the whole trade situation for the last 2 off seasons.
Jean Matrac
You’re out of your mind if you think teams will flat out lie, and other clubs will go along with being part of the deception. If the Marlins asked for Albies and then said they didn’t, there’s no compunction on AA’s part to keep silent. In fact, there are undoubtedly some Brave’s fans wondering why they didn’t get Realmuto. All AA has to do, so that fans know why they didn’t, is to say who the Marlins were asking for.
Knowthemarket
The problem isn’t with the team lying it’s with the media just not having the correct information. When you think about the asking price from the Dodgers and Yankees, it all involved major league pieces but the Braves, a division rival, they didn’t? Seriously..Billinger from the Dodgers, Andujar and Sanchez involving multiple players from both sides? But from the Braves, a division rival, they DON’T require a major league piece? They even got a major league piece from the the Phillies. It just doesn’t make since that they didn’t have that demand with the Braves.
joeyrocafella
One sentence in, I thought I was reading a different language. Well written piece
fighterflea
Here’s what I have on this. The Phils never originally expected to land Realmuto. He was not their priority nor did they think they could or should offer what they thought it would take to land Realmuto from a divisional rival.
But the Phils thought the major free agents (Machado, Harper) would have landed by now and didn’t wish to go forward without knowing they had made major improvement to the 25-man roster this off-season.
The Phils always knew that Alfaro would be moved in a trade for Realmuto for a couple of reasons. From the Marlins’ standpoint, they needed a catcher. From the Phils’ standpoint, Alfaro could be traded to the Marlins with the value attached to his being their best catcher. Alfaro’s value would shrink once he became the back-up to Realmuto and the plan was to maximize his value.
Maximizing value was also involved in the inclusion of Sixto Sanchez. Sanchez first was a shortstop and he has been slow to adapt to the training regimen involved with pitchers. He developed elbow problems which some in the organization feel is linked to his off-field conditioning. At a time when the Phils decided not to send Sanchez to the Arizona Fall League — where they would ordinarily send a top prospect who got very little work during the actual season — they realized that a poor showing in Arizona would take the luster off what has been seen as their top prospect. So moving Sanchez now was seen as another ‘sell high’ proposition for the team.
The notion that Will Stewart is or was seen as the Phils’ second leading pitching prospect, as reported by one so-called expert here, is pure fantasy. Nobody in the Phils’ organization could offer up that conclusion with a straight face. Stewart is strictly a reliever and the Phils have a number of prospect starters whom they hope will continue to develop as starters. If they flame out, then they are expected to become of equal value to Stewart.
jbigz12
I don’t know how you just came to the conclusion that Stewart is a reliever. He’s 20 years old and worked very effectively as a starter down there. He’s likely not physically mature just yet and could potentially add a tick or two on his fastball. He may not have been considered the #2 pitching prospect in their system but he certainly has a strong chance to be a starter in the big leagues. Albeit he seems to profile as more of a middle of the rotation guy at his ceiling. But hey if that’s your 3rd piece that’s just fine. Sixto is the lynchpin in grading this deal anyway. One we won’t be able to grade for at least 4-5 years down the line.
RBI
Stewart has as much chance to be a MLB starter as the other 200 medium talent Class A starters have. He may make it, but he would not be in most team’s Top 10, or in Atlanta’s top 30. Marlins clearly evaluate talent differently than most teams and most experts, and it shows across the board in the expert rankings of talent. Just pitiful… especially for South Florida baseball fans.
fighterflea
I haven’t seen Stewart pitch and I suspect you haven’t either. So it’s not my conclusion. It’s an organizational conclusion.
jbigz12
How does that make sense? They’re still using him as a starter so I don’t see how they’ve already concluded he’s going to be a reliever.
Matthew De Lorge
Asking for Andujar AND Sanchez was a ludicrous ask. Andujar alone for him would have been a close match. I could see Andujar, Frazier, and another top 10 guy in their system with more risk in the lower levels.
The Marlins are AWFUL at these moves, and have traded it’s best players the past few years and barely gotten a respectable amount in return.
What a terrible organization, with or without Jeter in it.
canadianyankee
Pretty sure they wanted Sanchez and Andujar for more than just JTR…as the article states “would obviously have included additional pieces”…bullet dodged however cuz he’s a philly now and the Yanks still have their young talent in hand…let’s just hope Gary has a bounce back season and Andujar’s defence improves as it should
mets1536
Jeter is an AHOLE …. Took all those talented player’s the Marlins had & got a “BAG OF MAGIC BEANS”
….. What a DUMMY
mikeyank55
Anyone with Mets in their name is an automatic classification as ignorant. Coupled with his anger towards Jeter, 1536 spent many seasons humming, “ Jose, Jose, Jose” as he watched Jeter add to his collection of rings.
BTW-you are stuck in Flushing misery 1536. No team conversions for you, as you have shown that there is no potential for redemption.
#L1C4Life
How is it that the Marlins asked the Braves for 2 of their top 30 prospects, yet settled for 1 from the Phillies, a catcher who’s not all that great, and a prospect not even in their top 30? Pretty messed up if you ask me. Comparable would have been Soroka, Flowers, and a super low level prospect.. I would have done that easily, but they wanted to take the Braves for 2 prospects. Such a load of BS
tharrie0820
I would have done Pache and Wentz for realmuto in a heartbeat
cygnus2112
Wasn’t “Coda” a bad Zeppelin album? See where I’m going here……
KingBong
Ty Bradley, the article is very well written. I appreciate good writing. I liked “coda”. I have no idea why these guys suddenly all think they are Faulkner or Hemmingway. Guys on here critiquing the way people write, like any of them make an effort to write the correct way. I actually just got jumped on last week for paragraph breaks. Pay these people no mind, Mr. Bradley.
The man is a professional, he gets paid to write for this site, back off and read your baseball info. Stop acting like elitists or griping because intelligent people use intelligent words. I guess a lot of you want people speaking like third graders. There must be a lot of Trump fans here.
“Good” “Bad” “Tremendous” “Substantial”
Get outta here…
But, I digress. Moving on…
I, for one, am thrilled Atlanta balked at that asking price. I always felt asking for Albies was nothing short of laughable. Just like last year’s ask of Acuna.
Two years of an overrated Realmuto for Riley/Pache AND a top pitching prospect like Soroka, etc.?!? No, that’s unreasonable. I’m all for trading from a gluttony of prospects, I think hoarding prospects is a dumb move, but I also believe in getting value from your top 30 ranked prospects. No way would I have pulled the trigger for Realmuto. Haniger? Sure. Realmuto? No way. Realmuto wasn’t gonna put the Braves over the top. I’m happy to stand pat with a platoon of McCann/Flowers on a dime.
Congrats to the Phillies. I’m glad Atlanta passed, though.
MasterShake
You and me both man! Kudos to AA for not giving in on this one.
steveinohio
Glad the Res didn’t overpay. I would rather them overpay for pitching. The Marlins did a good job of maximizing their return.
MasterShake
As long as Riley was in the deal I’m glad the Braves didn’t pull the trigger.
Psychguy
Someone with an informed opinion tell me how the Dodgers are improved coming into this year. Their PR and local radio jocks seem to support this idea. Gone are Grandal, Wood, and Puig. In their stead is Pollock and Kelly and Russell Martin taking over.