Red Sox slugger J.D. Martinez didn’t mince any words in his take on the slowed free agent market of the last two offseasons, describing the situation as “embarrassing for baseball” in comments to WEEI.com’s Rob Bradford. “You have a business. They say, ’The market is down, the market is changing.’ The market is higher than it’s ever been,” Martinez said. “People are making more money than ever, and they’re trying to suppress it. It’s more of a race towards the bottom now than a race towards the top. You can go right now through everyone’s lineup and you already know who’s going to be in the playoffs. What’s the fun in that? We might as well just fast-forward to the end of the season.” Martinez had his own frustrating trip through free agency last winter, as it wasn’t until late February that he finally landed his current five-year, $110MM deal with the Sox. For the next round of collective bargaining agreement negotiations, Martinez feels the MLBPA needs to be better prepared to counter what Martinez feels is a lack of competitiveness (“Losing is incentivized now.“) from the majority of teams.
In other labor news, representatives from the players’ union will meet with Rangers, White Sox, and Dodgers players on Sunday, Evan Grant of the Dallas Morning News reports. MLBPA reps regularly make separate trips to visit every team during Spring Training, though three teams gathering en masse for a meeting is unusual. “It’s not hard to understand the symbolism: Players are prepared to show unity,” Grant writes.
Here’s more from around baseball…
- Rival evaluators were “greatly surprised” that Marwin Gonzalez couldn’t find a three-year contract, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney writes (subscription required), as the utilityman instead inked a two-year, $21MM deal with the Twins. Agent Scott Boras initially targeted a four-year deal worth around $60MM for his client, and while Gonzalez’s versatility drew interest from many teams, none were willing to approach that price. (MLBTR also predicted a four-year contract for Gonzalez, though only at $36MM.) Olney wonders if utilitymen like Gonzalez are better served by signing earlier rather than later when testing free agency, and Olney also suggested that a reunion between Gonzalez and the Astros could have materialized if Houston had realized the player’s market would be so limited. The Astros seemed to move on early from Gonzalez, acquiring Aledmys Diaz from the Blue Jays to serve in a utility role.
- Jose Martinez’s two-year, $3.25MM extension was “something beyond a business decision” for the Cardinals, president of baseball operations John Mozeliak told reporters, including Rick Hummel of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. The unusual deal only covers this season (a pre-arbitration year for Martinez) and the slugger’s first year of arbitration of eligibility, so there technically wasn’t any urgency on the team’s part to get a deal done. In fact, Martinez was the subject of trade rumors for much of the winter, both from MLB teams and in Japan. Not wanting to either sell Martinez to the Japanese team or deprive the player of some added financial security, the extension served as a means to satisfy both Martinez and the Cardinals. (Not to mention the clubhouse as a whole, as other Cardinals players were happy to hear that their popular teammate had a new contract.) For Martinez, he cashes in his first big professional payday, which he said will go to help his family in Venezuela.
- Manny Machado’s ten-year, $300MM contract cracked a new spending threshold for the Padres, though as the San Diego Union-Tribune’s Bryce Miller writes, such an acquisition opens up new revenues pathways to account for that expenditure. Machado’s signing has already seen a $1MM boost in ticket sales, according to club chairman Ron Fowler, plus TV and radio ratings are expected to be on the rise. Being featured on national ESPN/FOX games, as well, provides a wider marketing opportunity for the Padres, as well as just gaining more general exposure to the broader public. Of course, the opportunity to create revenue is “all a product of winning,” Padres president of business operations Erik Greupner reminds. “With a player like Manny, there’s immediately a buzz and return on the business side. What’s more important for the long-term is what this translates to on the field.”
You guys stopped updating the free agent top 50 list as to where guys signed?
Of the top 25, only three haven’t signed. Might be a coincidence, but all three are clients of Boras: Harper, Dallas, & Gio.
JDM is mostly right, except “You can go right now through everyone’s lineup and you already know who’s going to be in the playoffs.” – playing the season creates contenders like Oakland last year. It is absolutely insane that MLB’s profits have skyrocketed and player salaries are not only suppressed, by dissected and hated by fans who pay exactly zero attention as to how much money the owners made.
MLB is failing the fans by letting people like Nutting own teams. Almost all owners are like him though. The only ones who spend big are also making way more too. It’s lose-lose situation where only a handful of men benefit.
Who cares how much money the owners make? That’s why fans don’t pay attention.
Fans hate these spoiled free agents who think they deserve those monster contracts signed a few years ago that are killing teams now.
There are only 6 legit teams that will win the World Series this year. You don’t even need to look at rosters.
I care about how much they make, because they’re pulling crap like “crying poor” when it comes to player salaries, when all that really means is “I want to hoard more money”
“There are only 6 legit teams that will win the World Series this year. You don’t even need to look at rosters” – fantastically untrue, there’s 4 teams in the NL East who could win. But sure, keep swallowing the narratives….
Why fans side with billionaire owners against millionaire players is beyond me. And if you believe that monster contracts are killing teams now, then you have bought the owners BS hook, line, and sinker.
If the Phils want to sink their resources into one player fine, but no owner should be forced to spend on free agency.
Tigerdoc616: Miggy played 38 games and made 28 million last year, that might be why people side with the owners.
I would feel sorry for any employer whose employees only show up for work 24% of the time.
We need more posters like you here, tigerdoc616
Miggy also dedicated his life to the game and created many times over in revenue than you could ever fathom.
He created may more times the revenue? OK – I’ll bite.
Care to show us some evidence of that?
I’m an Angels fan tigerdoc616. I believe the Pujols contract is killing the Angels right now. It was a poor business decision that has hamstrung the team, that’s no BS.
Pujols contract is killing the Angels only because Moreno refuses to go over the luxury tax. He has said in the past he would do it for the right player. Machado is and was that player. Young 3B just getting into his prime. Would have accomplished 3 things. #1 Filled a hole at 3rd #2 Provide protection for Trout. #3 Show Trout The Angels are comités to winning. With all the Young talent vorming up Arte blew it.
Dedicating his life to the game? Do you see the current state of his native country? He’s a baseball player quit kissing their pinky’s.
That simply isn’t true. To say that only 6 legit teams that “could” win the World Series this year.
Let’s see:
1: Boston
2. New York (Yanks)
3. Houston
4. Cleveland
5. Oakland
6. Tampa Bay
7. L.A. Dodgers
8. Chicago Cubs
9. St. Louis Cardinals
10. Milwaukee Brewers
11. Colorado Rockies
12. Atlanta Braves
And for that matter:
Washington Nationals
Philadelphia Phillies
San Francisco (Bochys last season)
Reds???
Pirates???
If you can get in the playoffs you can win the World Series and 12 teams make the playoffs if you count wild Card game play in game.
Saying only 6 have a chance like Martinez said is a gross exaggeration.
Is this the power order?
Excellent response to the crackpot re “only 6 teams…”. There’s ONLY 25 active players on every team. Doing the math, that’s 720 players total. Every year players get older, new players get drafted/ int-l sign. Plus existing milb’ers climb up the ladder. Everyone is (will be) replaced eventually. Long story short, if you’re not the cream of the crop, don’t be to greedy.
Nobody goes to games to watch an owner own!
You’re right that way more than six have a shot, but I’m surprised you didn’t include the Mets. If they stay healthy, they may have one of the best pitching staffs in baseball.
I didn’t notice that at first, but you’re right . The Mets should be on that list.
And eventually, some sooner than others, all players are replaced and franchises and their fans roll on. Players are a big part of the game but most fans follow a team and then players, not the reverse. For example, see how many Red Sox fans bought season tickets at Yankee Stadium when they got Clemens, Boggs or Ellsbury.
Pujols contract is killing the Angels only because Moreno refuses to go over the luxury tax. He has said in the past he would do it for the right player. Machado is and was that player. Young 3B just getting into his prime. Would have accomplished 3 things. #1 Filled a hole at 3rd #2 Provide protection for Trout. #3 Show Trout The Angels are comités to winning. With all the Young talent vorming up Arte blew it.
This list doesn’t even make sense the tigers aren’t even on it.. I mean come on.
Only one legit team – the Red Sox.
They easily beat 3 of the “best” teams mlb had to offer this past post season and lost 3 games total (1 in each series). Red Sox are head and shoulders better than every other tram.
“Who cares how much money the owners make? That’s why fans don’t pay attention.”
You should care, because they cry poor when it comes to kicking down their disgustingly-massive profits to the players who are 100% responsible for them making those profits.
“Fans hate these spoiled free agents who think they deserve those monster contracts signed a few years ago that are killing teams now.”
So many things wrong with this mindset. First “spoiled” – they are professionals in a highly-paid field that generates BILLIONS. You have this “spoiled” attitude because you probably played baseball and now you make $50K a year and are bitter that this pro athletes skill makes them THAT much more money than you, when you did what they do on a non-professional level. You ultimately hate yourself and are petty and jealous that these guys have a skill you don’t. They are not spoiled, in fact they are MASSIVELY underpaid when compared to the revenue they bring in.
Second “killing teams now” – this is inherently wrong. There is no salary cap or floor, the owners 100% control what they spend, and the last 2 offseasons they have refused to spend the profits on the players. Why are teams even allowed to spend less money on players year in and out? That should never go down. MLB needs to make it illegal for a team to spend less on players every year.
“There are only 6 legit teams that will win the World Series this year. You don’t even need to look at rosters.”
You are lying if you had Oakland at 97 wins last year. No one even had them at 87.
So players are 100% responsible for the owners making money?
Something tells me the coaches, scouts, trainers, equipment people, and various other team employees and front office people would beg to differ.
Players represent the product on the field, they are not 100% of the product. The product is the team, which is full of other employees than the 25 men on the active roster and the 40 that are carried.
So they should be forced to spend and spend? Yeah, that is a sign of someone being responsible and knowing how to run a company. How about this, players like Martinez not blaming owners for not wanting to pay him what he thinks he deserves. Martinez’s free agency lasted as long as it did b/c he wanted MORE money. There is nothing inherently wrong with that but you don’t then get to complain that it took longer to get what you wanted. The market decides what someone is worth, not the player, or the agent. Also, if there are say 8 teams all vying for Harper/Machado/Keuchel those teams are going to wait and see what happens with those three before moving on. Why would a team make a huge offer to Harper, knowing that is the majority of their FA funds for this year and then spend some of that money on other FAs while waiting for Harper to make a decision? The players are getting offers. It is their fault for not signing them and waiting it out, not the owners.
Check out team “owners are great people who do nothing wrong” over here.
So naive. These teams are like 1 of 100s of ways these billionaires make money. Every team could easily and should have at least 5 $30M players. If teams are going to control players careers/years they should not be allowed to earn minimum wage, arbitration should be for all players at the end of the season and pay is based off production, unless the player and team can work out a contract beforehand.
“knowing that is the majority of their FA funds for this year and then spend some of that money on other FAs while waiting for Harper to make a decision?” – because these “funds” are an entirely made up number set by the owners. They make the rules for themselves. EVERY owner could spend $500M a season on player salaries and still make a profit. They sell you this cry poor narrative and you eat it right up. Open your eyes.
Blame the luxury tax then for forcing owners to be cheaper than they normally would. If everyone wants the players to get a bigger piece of the pie, stop punishing teams for spending money. Blame the MLBPA for allowing that to be in the CBA. Get rid of salary caps period and this wouldn’t be an issue
Is this JD Martinez chiming in?
The Oakland A’s made $210m in revenue for 2017. You said “EVERY owner could spend $500m a season on player salaries and still make profit.”
The Minnesota Twins made $261m in 2017.
You are using the Yankees balance sheet and their television revenue money and applying it to the rest of the MLB.
I believe the active payroll for the Yankees in 2017 was $165m, but combining other salaries such as the 40-man roster, etc., it went up to $210m.
S4 – you are either an agent, employee of an agent, or you work for the MLBPA.
The problem with your thinking (and those like you) is that there is no logic to it – and you haven’t thought things through.
It does not logically follow that if the owners think up a new way to generate revenue that the players are automatically entitled to a share of said revenue. They can ask for a share, they can negotiate a share, but the very fact that the revenue exists does not mean that they are ENTITLED to a share of the revenue.
If a business owner in any business figures out how to generate more revenue (by opening a new market or inventing a new product) it does not make the employees entitled to share in it. Those employees are still performing the same service, regardless of whether that additional revenue/market exists.
The same is true of MLB players. They haven’t figured out all these new revenue streams – the owners and their OTHER EMPLOYEES have figured it out.
How much revenue a team generates has no relation to what a player is “worth”.. What is – or should determine his worth – is his performance on the field.
I and many others have posted a number of times on this site that we are in a period of adjustment in MLB players salaries due to the emergence of analytics providing better clarity to front offices as to the value of players throughout their careers – and the effects of aging in a non-PED era. And lo and behold, teams have figured out that they can get just as much out of a 23-24 year old bench player as they can get out of a 31-32 year old bench player for less money. And there are way more young kids coming up who want to be that bench player than 31-32 year old guys who have done it.
The older guys are upset, we get that, but any smart business owner is going to gravitate towards the lower cost of labor if the marginal production is the same.
The other problem the players have is that in the past they have managed to negotiate large, lengthy contracts that have garnered a lot of attention, and that haven’t worked out for the teams (or the fans because it’s our money to begin with – not the owners’). That is, they have gotten virtually nothing for their money. And it’s not just the 10 years deals like Pujols’, it’s shorter deals also. Hamilton, HanRam, Fat Panda and many others have provided nothing for the teams that paid them. HanRam got paid 88MM over 4 years in Boston and didn’t even produce 1 fWAR. I don’t blame owners one bit for wanting to avoid deals like that.
So the adjustment is occurring, and what the PA is going to have to figure out how to do is get more money to younger players when they are actually earning it. That’s the real injustice in the game – the younger players getting peanuts for putting up big numbers. It’s not the owners’ fault Tony Clark has no vision.
Lastly, I really have a problem with you presenting this as a moral argument when it’s not – it’s a business transaction jointly agreed to at which one side has been better at taking advantage of the possibilities.
If you want to talk about who is baseball is getting screwed, let’s talk about who the major league players have screwed over the years:
They’ve screwed draftees by agreeing to arbitrary levels of signing bonuses for the different rounds of the draft. That has limited what draftees can make, and it was done with express understanding that the money owners wouldn’t spend on the draft would make it into the pockets of MLB players.
They’ve screwed international FA’s – 16 year old kids – by agreeing to limited bonus pools that keep young Dominican, Venezuelan and other kids from realizing their full value in the marketplace.
Where did the MLBPA get the right to negotiate on behalf of people they don’t even represent?
Lastly, the MLBPA (that is – the players) has for years screwed minor leaguers and the aforementioned players by bargaining away their rights without offering them any kind of representation.
Why? Simple: to put money in their own pockets at the expense of all the others. So don’t give me this c**p that the MLB players are saints or victims – through collective bargaining they’ve screwed a lot of people they don’t even represent.
I view the players and owners as equally greedy, and equally malevolent when it comes to representing their own self-interests.
I don’t care how much money either of them make – I just want to see good baseball, and if analytics keeps my teams more competitive every year by limiting the dead money contracts I’m all for it.
If the players want more they can go to the bargaining table to get more, but they better not ask for my sympathy.
They screwed their fair share of other people as well.
Very nice post, nonadhominem. You explained the situation well.
Hear! Hear!
Great points.
Best response yet to this nonsense regarding FA not signing.. Players don’t like some disgruntled players griping about taking to long to sign, or not quite enough money? THEY are the ones agreeing to the various salary caps and luxury penalties over the years which surely stops some teams from doing much.
The power to put a STOP to it lies with THEM. Tell Tony Clark to grow a spine,
Do you think owners own baseball teams just for fun? Not even close. It’s business to them. And their in business to generate profit. Every team has an operating budget. Some teams are higher than others. At any rate why should owners pay a premium to certain players when they can get the same production, or close to it, for cheaper? It’s business & economics 101. There is no law or rule saying teams must employ player(s) x. Baseball business shouldn’t have different rules than any other business.
They’re* for all the grammar police.
Again, why are you defending this? It’s because you hate baseball players making money because the media-influence billionaires have has saturated this false narrative of them being “poor” or even losing money. Why do you care about a businessman making a profit? Its sports, its driven by the players, the owners make too much money and the fans suffer from their cheapness.
Do you think the Pirates are a contender with Chisenhall and Moran instead of Harper and Machado. They aren’t, and the only reason why is because the Pirates owner is a notoriously greedy scumbag.
“Baseball business shouldn’t have different rules than any other business.” Bull. Billion dollar businesses absolutely need to regulation differently to other businesses, across the board.
Keep in mind these cheapskate owners never even pay taxes, but that’s a whole other thing. Bottom line is this: if you own a baseball team, you are a scumbag and we need to make their lives hard, because they have had it too good for too long.
Strike Four – you want more spending from owners? Fine, how about we do away with the luxury tax. No maximum spending. Then you’ll see teams throw big money at players.
Granted, you will find something to whine about if baseball took that route. However, more players will get their big payday.
AND….you’d have a better argument against the cheap owners unwilling to spend.
Now, you could have a spending floor. The harm of that will be when a “small market” team overpays for a player to reach the floor which will boost the salaries of players better than said player signing with the small market spending.
I don’t have to side with you or the players when probably none of you have ever had to run a business. If you did you’d understand that it’s not cut and dry having to adequately spend every dollar you have earned.
“Why do you care about a business man making a profit? I dunno, maybe so that baseball will continue to survive? These owners are businesses men, they aren’t in it for charity. If they don’t make money, the team goes under and we don’t have a sport.
If you think they have it too easy, scrape yourself up a couple billion and buy a team and run it at a loss. See how long you last.
Well, go buy a team, strike four. Pay the players whatever their agent says their worth. Put your money where your mouth is and stop trying to spend other people’s money and trying to tell us how to think. Sounds like you’re the one that’s jealous. Jealous of the owners whose skill has allowed them to decide how to best spend their money.
you are incorrect. players salaries are NOT being suppressed. the length of the contracts are being reduced. Corbin, Happ, and a bunch of relievers hout really good aav. if Harper or Manny would take 4/$$140 they might have teams that would jump on it. and really the idea of limiting years is backed by logic. if we’ve seen the majority of 10 year deals being risky whether from age/ declining performance or the likely health issues then why should owners issue them?
Totally false. The highest paid player should be at least $50M by now and min wage should be $1M.
These tiny, incremental raises to max annual contracts has not been in line with profits and owners make more money every single year than they did the year before.
…you’re out of your mind, son….
Strike4′ you’re entire argument boils down to “we want more”?
You’re like a 7 year old kid who only got one scoop of ice cream at the parlor and wants two.
That’s all.
Strike Four, each comment i read of yours in this thread is making me dumber and dumber.
Nutting is terrible BUT the current CBA is terrible too. Pirates were doing quite well using their money on young international talent as a way to compete against the likes of the Dodgers. Last CBA cut strategies like that out at the knees.
It’s really shocking to think the MLBPA leadership didn’t have even a rudimentary understanding of basic economic theory. Lower the cost of a substitute – aka limit the amount of money you can pay an amateur player – and what reason is there to spend $300 million on an aging veteran? It will be interesting to see what they propose to fix this in the next CBA
One thing they need to do immediately is send every single player to arbitration. No more waiting around. You produce, you get paid, no matter the age. So many owners profit off younger players and make out like bandits because they control their early salaries. That has to end immediately.
What about all of the money invested for players who never even make it? When a player has one really good year and gets paid then sucks the next year is there going to be arbitration to reduce his salary? For all the investments teams make in players and the minor leagues they deserve some reasonable control. If players want megadeals to continue then the players who get them should assure they look like good contracts.
but how can they possibly assure that they’ll live up to these contracts? short of taking steroids, I dont see how you expect a player to justify these massive amounts of money in a highly competitive atmosphere in which billions of dollars are at stake. it’s a roll of the dice giving a player a massive contract. what needs to happen is a compromise that allows compensation for to commensurate that of performance. there are solid arguments on both sides. the owners aren’t in a hurry to become the next Arte Moreno, anymore than we as intelligent fans wish to support owners who pocket revenue instead of invest in their product.
“What about all of the money invested for players who never even make it?”
Who cares, its a billionaires money. The player gave years of his life to a billion dollar industry, he deserves to get paid and another thing is how terrible a lot of minor leaguers lives are. That has to end too.
“When a player has one really good year and gets paid then sucks the next year is there going to be arbitration to reduce his salary?”
Sure thing. He wins MVP, he gets $50M. He blows his arm out on the first pitch of the season, he gets the league minimum, which needs to be raised to $1M to fall in line with profits.
This is what I keep telling everyone: “they’ll live up to” and “billions of dollars are at stake!!!” are purely owner-driven narratives that makes a baseball fan suddenly care about a rich person’s money when all they were trying to do was like baseball. These owners own baseball teams for literal hobby, their bigger money makers are things they definitely don’t want us knowing about. Why do you only think baseball contracts given to superstars are “massive” anyway? You want to see “Massive” you should see what a billion dollars is (50,000 x 20,000 aka 50K a year for 20K years. YEARS.)
It’s time for us fans to start pointing the finger where it belongs: right in the chests of these greedy old men. Owners are never ever “hurting” by giving out “bad” contracts, in fact no contracts are “bad” or “good”, but if you want “reasons” why the player gets paid, here’s one: the player is famous and brings fans to the game, even 2019 Pujols brings people to the yard.
“The player gave years of his life to a billion dollar industry…”
This argument is BS and grounded in zero logic.. It’s all emotion – “I want I want I want”.
No one is forced to play baseball at any level. Period.
Good luck getting the players to agree to going to league minimum if hurt. They are already complaining about not being “taken care of” and being overly compensated as they age. Im good with a hybrid approach to paying for performance. Saying who cares about billionaires losing money means you’ll never look at this argument from a rational, business standpoint. You just expect owners to give money away.
For about 3 years now Pujols could have easily been replaced for a lot less, the team likely would have won more and fans would have had more interest in the Angels. They are stuck in mediocrity because of some bad contracts that have prevented Trout from getting to the playoffs. Sad really.
No, Angel fans go to see Trout and they wish Pujols would just go away. How about all of those Tiger fans that showed up to see Miggy play last year. He played less than 40 and got paid for 162.
And what will players give up to get this? Be specific.
Strike Four….. read…learn the history of the MLBPA mlbplayers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=181321&A…
You have to scroll through at the bottom of the page and select the history of each decade from the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s etc…. then come back and and say “immediately is send every single player to arbitration
There are solutions but that ain’t one of them.
Sure thing, lets go look what happened before tv contracts and the game swelled to a billion dollar industry for help. No.
And your unwillingness to learn shines a light on why so many of your comments are idiotic. Have a nice day
Cat is right.
Strike Four, out of all the posters on this thread, it looks like you care the most about rick guys money the most. You are the one calling the rich guys scumbags.
They have to come up with some rationale for spending such a disproportionate amount of their allotted salary on one guy.. That’s as good as any……
Kind of points out the fallacy of “trickle down”, doesn’t it? The MLBPA agreed to “slotting” for amateur draft picks and International signs, expecting the resulting savings would go into MLB payrolls. SURPRISE! The owners kept it instead.
I’m SHOCKED!, SHOCKED! to see that happened.
No it doesn’t. Trickle down works just fine in a full capitalistic environment. Baseball isn’t that. However, there are obvious issues. Most teams aren’t going to outspend the Yankees or Dodgers, so if you’re going to win, you have to make very smart signings, scout well and develop well. It’s not as simple as go out and spend big bucks on anyone. A bad signing will kill many teams. The Padres could take the risk because they feel they have a deep, ready to produce farm, and their payroll wasn’t out of control.
And a “full capitalist environment” has happened where? About in the same theoretical universe as pure socialism. Baseball isn’t pure capitalism; neither is widget manufacturing.
But your point is sound, the issue being not that the Big Boys can have higher payrolls, but that the Yanks (e.g.) can spend twice what they spend, and still make money. Most other teams have limits. While it’s balanced a bit by the initial investment, and revenue disparity has been somewhat tempered by Revenue Sharing, it’s hardly been eliminated.
And I totally agree with what SD did. For all his warts, a guy like Manny doesn’t come along that often. Every wining team needs “aircraft carriers” (to parrot a Don O’Dowd phrase), and he’s certainly that.
MLB is both competitive and cooperative. Or, as Ted Turner once infamously phrased, “A business where I have to be as dumb as my nearest competitor”.
Trickle down will never work anymore because Reagan deregulated capitalism.
No it doesn’t. Trickle down works fine in a full capitalistic environment. Baseball isn’t that. Most teams can’t outspend the Yankees and Dodgers. They have to be smart. Scout well, develop well, and sign key FA that work with the team. Bad, large signings would kill most teams. The Padres could do it because they felt they had a strong farm that’s ready to produce.
Trickle down is morally wrong.
There’s that…..
Huh? You people don’t understand basic economics. Trickle down works. It’s not without issues, as yeah, guys at the top make mega dollars, and more than they need, but they also keep the economy going and create jobs. The rich guys don’t keep money under their pillows, they invest in other things.
JD is wrong about already knowing who will make the playoffs. Maybe in the NBA, but baseball is much different. Every year there are surprise teams and teams that are expected to be good that miss the playoffs. No guarantees in MLB.
You definitely can’t point to the rosters and say who will make the playoffs.
No one projected the A’s, Braves, Brewers, or Rockies to be in the playoffs based off rosters.
Sorry padres but it will translate to about 76-80 wins and no more. Judge this in about 3 years but let’s not forget this was a last place team a year ago. Manny can only do so much.
They’ve got more than just Machado going on. They have Mejia and Tatis Jr knocking at the door in 2019.
Plus had Myers and Hosmer underperform in 2018.
They’re rotation needs work but they’ve got more potential than you’re giving them credit for
They also have some nice pitching prospects coming up in the next year or 2.
All of our young guys Hedges, Margot, Renfroe, Cordero, Reyes all improve their game by at least 1 WAR…Hosmer and Myers bounce back with 3-4 WAR seasons, now that the lineup is deeper, teams will have to give them something to hit. Last year teams just preyed on our young guys.
Bullpen was “historically great” last year…
This has been happening for a while and when you remove the big money clubs Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, etc from the bidding – surprise…smaller bids. In years past, these teams would have been buying everybody. With the tightening of the luxury tax, MLB has finally achieved what they wanted, less excessive spending
Also, another way to look at it, is remove the Boras clients from the conversation. Once you do it gets very hard to say that there is an issue. He has really misread the market the last two years. Coming in asking for the moon. Then teams fill their holes and his players have limited places left to go. He’s playing high stake poker and has had his bluff called. It’s embarrassing the way he has so poorly misrepresented his mid-tier stars.
JDM is right, but the blame mostly falls on the MLBPA for negotiating the CBA with such a lack of foresight, and a focus on smaller things (like the QO). I’m surprised at the number of fans who only blame the players. The refusal (and that’s what it is, refusal) of many teams to even try to complete degrades the product. Baseball is entertainment, and what entertainment business deliberately puts out an inferior product? Fans understand flops, or misfortune, but sooner or later they will move away from spending big bucks if the cast is consistently made up of the local community theatre stars.
The fans blame the players because the owners control the media and frame free agency and giving superstars lots of money like they’re the ones getting hurt if the player does not produce.
My question is why do fans even care about a rich guys money? They want the players salaries to be closer to their own, but also don’t want the owners to “waste” their money. Its having cake and eating too from owners, 24-7.
The Rangers highest paid players this year will be Prince Fielder and Choo. I can promise you I don’t buy tickets hoping to see either of those players play. I’m an avid fan, and been to all thirty parks. But candidly when I go now, it’s to have good bonding time with my 9 & 11 year old kid. Sure they loved Beltré. And sure they get excited about Gallo. They love the fireworks when a homerun is hit. They love collecting baseball cards. But at the park they also love getting cotton candy and ice cream as much as they did watching Beltré. They love walking around the ballpark and checking out the kid friendly places.
Make no mistake, pushing my 89-year old grandfather in his wheelchair so he could watch the Cardinals and the Rangers in the World Series was a moment I’ll never forget. Old war hero watching his two favorite games turned into a kid again.
To go on their World Series runs they traded the farm every mid season. We’re paying the price for it now. They could sign Harper, Machado, and Dallas and still not be close to sniffing the playoffs. So I’m fine with letting the farm restock and get loaded up for another run. That’s not me not caring that my team isn’t great, rather it’s a reality of going for it all for several years.
The hypocrisy in some comments is puzzling to me – Why begrudge and hate on a player asking for more money – its the owners choice to either pony up or decline – why is it many want to demoize the player- There are CHOICES here for both parties , Yes?
By the way – shame on any of you who have lobbied your employer for a raise, responded to a job recruiter or voluntarily vacated a job for a bigger bite of the apple somewhere else Lol
And its hypocritical to say players have the right to ask for more and shouldnt be criticized when it’s a 2 party agreement. As you said the owner has the right to decline those demands and shouldnt be criticized for that decision.
I concur 100% – apparantly my comments were not clear.
Its all about media-control. Owners present narratives that their teams are their only source of income and they spend their own money and we get 800000 articles about how mad people are at how much money players make, because so many pundits use hyperbole to demean the skills these players have or the fact that “its a kids game” – all smokescreens that benefit only the owners.
Who cares if the team is or isnt their only source of income? Either way they would be dumb to just throw mpney away. Im not saying some teams owners shouldnt spend more but saying owners shouldnt run a team with basic business sense makes no sense.
Sounded like he was reciting scott boras. I do think they need to up the league minimum and fix the arbitration and qualifying offer. The young players and mediocre players should be taken better care of. But i will never feel sorry that a player cant get $30 million a year. U c a n always quit baseball and get a regular job working 12 months a year.
There are plenty of things wrong with the current CBA, but the one that players seem to gravitate towards is the money for veterans. We all know the owners are making lots of money, and rightly so, but it’s not like players make nothing. Yes, when you compare the minimum $555,000 for 2019 to what a JD Martinez will make this season ($23.75MM) it looks dwarfed and less significant, but you have to look at the whole picture and not just those figures.
For instance, players have a pretty damn good retirement plan if they have 10 years of MLB service. The plan pays fully vested members a minimum of nearly $68,000 a year for those who start drawing at 45, with a sliding scale that goes up to $220,000 for beneficiaries who wait until age 62. That’s for each player and is a lot of money that the owners (league) contributes to. Not only that, but MLB players who play just 43 days in the majors earn a minimum $34,000 annual pension plan. Just one day in the majors gets them lifetime healthcare coverage.
It’s a well deserved retirement plan for the long time veterans and a generous one for even those who only ever get a cup of coffee in the majors.
I’m not saying that i’m not shocked that some of the players are only getting minor league offers, but the compensation for those that make it to the majors is nothing to sneeze at after retirement.
im not naysaying, but I have to ask, where are you getting this information?
It’s readily available through google. I believe, but am not certain, MLBTR even had a line or two on the 43 days part in an article this off season.
google.com/search?q=Major+League+Baseball+Players+…..69i57j0l2.4368j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Link to MLB player Pension Benefits PDF
play better baseball and you might start getting the big contracts again..sad when a guy is making 15/20 million and can’t even throw a straight ball from the outfield to homeplate..
Its ridiculously hard to do that, and players arent ever asked to be 100%. Baseball skills are way harder than you think.
There needs to be a league minimum salary cap like there is in the NHL. If you want to tank aka rebuild that’s fine but you still should be required to spend over $90 million .
In 2018, 8 teams spent under $90 mil. League average was $125 Million
Dude, you’re mostly right, but you don’t play ANY defense. You are literally a negative defender by…A LOT. Be frustrated that you can’t field a ball and be more frustrated by players who contribute more and can’t get signed.
Owners have the right to make as much as possible. Players too. But owners have the right not to pay them what they are asking. No owner should be forced to sign a free agent. I’d like to see the players stop whining about it to the media and by association trying to elicit fan support..
The media is the one whining that players “make too much money” when that money if not given to the player goes directly into the owners pocket.
I’d love the game go back to when these rich guys used teams as tax write offs and threw money around because they had to, but being that we have had 6 Presidents who all have been dedicated to completely eradicating regulation on capitalism itself, it doesn’t make sense for them anymore.
What was the answer when the reporters asked JD the obvious follow up, “Please name the 10 playoff teams for 2019?”
baseball seems to have more unpredictability to individual performance from season to season than any other sport- so have to disagree with Martinez’ statement to some degree- it’s not like its the NBA.
Martinez had his offer from the Sox early, but his agent waited to see if another offer would come along- as good a hitter Martinez is, he’s a DH who had some health issues.
Marwin Gonzalez is a utility guy with a good offensive season two years ago- how can you complain about 2 for 21?
there are two seperate issues here- teams not wanting to overpay for guys seasons when they will be in decline….and the young players not eligible for free agent…
with the adjustment on the vet pay, they will just need to negotiate better opportunities for the young stars short of free agency who are underpaid- but the players negotiated the current arrangement, so hard to listen to them complain about it right now.
The system is broken but that doesn’t mean owners should overpay for players who have already reached or passed their peak. Kimbrel asking for what has been reported is delusional at best, Keuchel expecting a 5 or 6 year contract for 25mil a year is a fantasy….why would any owner sign up for what will undoubtedly be at least half of the contract being a serious overpayment? At the same time, a salary floor is needed to keep team from tanking…..every team that collects revenue sharing should be required to show baseball related expenditures for every dollar they receive and the league should impose a minimum $110 mil salary floor for all teams.
This concept of “overpaying” is totally bunk and was created by owners themselves.
Boras wants 6-7 years for Dallas. At $25-$30M a year. Paying Keuchel $200M would be a vast overpay. That’s just the opinion of a fan.
They do have to show what they spend it on, but under current agreement it doesnt have to be on players. Facilities, training, personnel, anything that can in anyway be considered to make onfield product better counts.
For those interested in hearing the players side, there is this article from 2 day ago. It’s quite good.
usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/gabe-lacqu…
I just don’t see how the players can complain…yes the owners make plenty of money…but it’s just evident that paying a player into their late 30s is not working…case in point Pujols and plenty of other examples…and they are getting offered a higher annual value for shorter years…that’s what it is shifting to…why should they sign a contract that will obviously not work out in the end…and then a player might get hurt…and I know that owners will never lower prices at the park but maybe that should happen before these million and billionaires squabble over money…you know give back to the people who make the MLB exist
With that said things do need to change…and that article suggested by Cat Mondo was a good one and I agree with those changes usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/gabe-lacqu…
I read the article, what really stood out was that it didnt acknowledge that these players, atleast the ones at the top holding up the market, have had offers even before they became free agents. Its not that they cant sign before spring, it is that they wont.
There are not very many good athletes. You have a few good teams and a lot of bad teams. You have injuries and players getting old. Is the Warriors winning the World Championship every year, the perfect system?
The MLBPA doesn’t have much reason to complain about slow free agency. After all, they’re the ones who signed away on Teams having years of cheap control of players before they hit free agency. Teams are smartening up and seeing the value in the 6 years they get at rock bottom prices, ahead of the lesser years they get by blowing the bank in free agency.
The only way to counter it, if you’re the Players Association, is to bargain for free agency to bought forward earlier in a Players career, and get money in their hands earlier. But they’re horrible track record in recent years has left them with very little leverage.
Agreed, Cam, and on the first statement it just seems that they should be more open to admit that what was negotiated before has not produced the best results. Better that rather than just show acrimony toward the teams and the league.
There is only one team I would give no shot in the nl.
Yes, one team with a former player who made a ton of money now as an owner that is giving away any talented player making money.He was way overpaid his last years as a player and seems to understand that doesnt make sense as an owner. Maybe Jeter should meet with MLBPA and share his new perspective.
I get the consternation of the slothlike pace of the free agent market. I would hope the players are attempting to come up with creative solutions behind the scenes to alleviate what are some of the inequities of pay.
I have a few things I would propose:
* Create a performance-based bonus system by diverting part of the pool of revenue sharing that would not burden the clubs’ payroll. Bonuses would be for finishing in the top-20 and winning the major awards. The top bonuses would go to league leaders, most notably those of triple crown categories. This way those players like Mike Trout who put up insanely good years could actually make $50MM in a year, and ones like Marwin González in 2017 who get a surprising big year could get compensated as well. It would apply to all major leaguers, regardless of playing time. Also small bonuses for reaching milestones like 500 PA, 50 innings for relievers or 25 starts for starters.
* Create a path to bypass a couple years for free agency, such as four years, if younger player shows high achievement early in his career, à la Kris Bryant by winning a Rookie of the Year and MVP within his first two years, or Nolan Arenado who managed to win several Gold Gloves and Silver Sluggers early. Also if a player makes his MLB debut at age 25 or later he automatically would be eligible for free agency after four years.
This would all keep in mind that teams would be still pay players a base salary, probably in several millions of dollars for the best players..
Also, if a player suffers a season-ending injury or misses a certain amount of time a team would potentially be eligible to “write it off” against the luxury tax threshold for a certain number of seasons going forward. Same possibility would apply for the “bottom 10%” of performers who are incurring very high salaries, like with the situation of Albert Pujols.
As a casual observer of the game, it appears that teams have become much more adept at becoming creative financially.. It would be contingent for the players to do likewise. Ball’s in their court.
Ultimately, the MLBPA needs to fix their house first. For the longest time, they believed in the “trickle down economics” model. The more the superstars make, then more goes to the average ballplayer (eventually). That is no longer the case.
Also, I would love to have a longterm guaranteed contract at my job… but I don’t. It is not because I am not the best at my job (there is no fair way to measure that). I don’t have a labor union with an army of lawyers behind me. But on second thought, thank god for that or else I would be tied to rules I never personally agreed to.
Bottom line, the MLBPA is a very unique and powerful union. Sadly, the little guy gets hurt even in the baseball players union.
Sad to see JDM becoming an outspoken person.
He should go back and look at what happened to Curt Schilling and Manny Ramirez in Boston when they started down the whining and complaining road in the press.
Just do your job and let the Owners and GM’s do theirs please.
If you think you can pay more to players?
Then how about if you buy a ball club and pay them whatever you think they are worth and then win it all.
But what’s the fun of that?
So what you’re saying is, become one of the 0.01%, or be quiet.
No I’m saying the owners and GM, coaches, trainers and scouts that are part of the 0.01%, the good ones that win year in and year out, know what they’re doing.
Just watch the movie Moneyball and you will see that John Henry (Boston Owner) totally respected Billy Beane (Oakland GM) for the bucks he spent per win.
I’m not disputing that there are people who “know what they’re doing”. I’m disputing your logic around telling JDM to buy a Team, or be quiet.
How well one Owner respected one GM has absolutely nothing to do with it.
It is true that most owners are wealthy but they did not get wealthy throwing away money. If you think Boston and the Yankees are rolling in dough think again. They did not even try to sign Manny or Harper. The only teams that can afford Martinez are teams that are already close to the salary cap. Look no further than the horrible contracts like Ellsbury that are still in the books. Does the Kershaw deal make sense when he is injujred already. A 247 hitter wants 300 million plus. Say you are a Tampa Bay fan and are given the choice of signing Harper or building a new stadium ? Which would you chose ?
You said above “If you believe that monster contracts are killing teams now, then you have bought the owners BS hook, line, and sinker.”
Now you’re saying teams like Boston and NYY can’t afford expensive players due to the luxury tax and draft pick penalties I presume?
John Henry (Boston Owner) just recently said teams that spend more generally tend to do better.
Then you say there is risk in signing Ellsbury and Kershaw.
But everyone knows that?
Then you ask “Do Tampa fans sign Harper or build a new ballpark”?
So what are you saying?
Tampa wins with a lousy ballpark, low attendance and a low payroll? And so does Oakland! Year after year!
They have to!
What’s you’re point?
Should Bezos, Buffett, Trump and Bill Gates just blow all of their money buy a team and pay these poor underpaid players and build the fans a great new ballpark like the the Marlins did and then sell the team to Jeter after they see they are losing money?
And have Jeter cut all of their superstars at a fire sale?
Look Ballman bought the LA Clippers. He has billions and if he wants to waste a bunch of it on Khami Leonard who by the way sat out today again fine. MOST baseball teams are not owned by people that can waste billions of dollars. Bill Gates has billions but he is giving away most of it to charity not to JDM or Kershaw (who has shoulder issues)… Let me keep it simple. Baseball players are in control. They demand guaranteed salaries for five, ten years whatever. The owners are trying to keep a lid on salaries. At least teams like Atlanta and Tampa Bay and Oakland can still compete by careful budgeting and building farm system. The game is bigger than any one player and a true fan can enjoy a college game of baseball or basketball or hockey just as much as watching JDM and Manny Machado.
The starting shortstop for the Yankees Tulowski is making 20 million this year. The cheques are being written by the Toronto Blue Jays in Canada and that translates to 26 million dollars Canadian. When I go to a Blue Jay game I buy tickets in Canadian dollars. Rogers owns the Jays and I have a bunch of Rogers shares. JDM I do NOT want Rogers to sign you next year. All you would do is maybe win three or four more games for us.
Simply looking at rosters to determine who can win the World Series is, well, simplistic to say the least. When playing, the best players are susceptible to injury or illness like any other. Do managers matters? There are usually some unpredictable surprises (good and bad) in terms of performance and, can we ignore just plain old luck?
I can’t stand John Mozeliak and his arrogant bull that spews from his mouth. Good night
As soon as I read “You can go right now through everyone’s lineup and you already know who’s going to be in the playoffs.” Took all credibility away from what JD was saying. You can not say who is going to win any of the NL divisions. Nats, Braves & if Phils get Harper they all have a chance in East. Cards, Cubs, Brewers in Central. Dodgers, Rockies & now maybe the Padres in the West. AL is little easier to narrow down but with As, Yankees & Rays should b a good battle for the wild cards.
Then to hear people constantly crying about players not making ridiculous money is just plain idiotic. You can thank contracts like Vernon Wells, Barry zito, pujols, miggy, josh Hamilton, heyward, crush Davis, panda, mauer, prince can keep going on and on. Players like kimbrel & kuechel wanting 100MM + are not worth it. Most Players that understood their value signed Corbin, Brantley, Donaldson, Andrew Miller, down to players like Joe Kelly, Matt Adams etc. I am a season ticket holder & want my team to spend money to field a team that can win, but I don’t want my team to pay for a contract that will pay a player that is no where near their value & but the team in bad financial terms down the road. Nobody pays me to be terrible at my job. I do think things like how long till young players are FA needs to change but to say that a team has to pay a player both longer term & mega millions is just nonsense.
Markets go up and down and all around for countless reasons besides hardheaded party-line idiocy from the league and the union. But hardheaded party-line idiocy from the league and the union certainly doesn’t do anything to help.
I trust the league and the union will work hard to avoid a rational solution.
Wether you want to believe it’s those “evil, greedy owners” or “those spoiled rotten, pampered players,” the one thing we can all agree on remains a fact: We the fans are the ones left to pay for it all with abominable ticket costs, and disgraceful concession prices. A working class family can’t afford to go to the ballpark anymore.