After several months of nonstop rumors centering on J.T. Realmuto, the Marlins finally found an offer to their liking for the superstar catcher Thursday, when they dealt him to the NL East rival Phillies. Entering the offseason, it seemed inevitable the rebuilding Marlins would part with Realmuto, who made it clear on multiple occasions going back to last winter that he was uninterested in signing an extension with the club.
At times this offseason, Realmuto drew interest from nearly half the league (14 teams), and with such a vast market for his services, Miami spent the past few months holding out for a Godfather offer from one of those clubs. In the end, the Marlins accepted a three-player return consisting of major league catcher Jorge Alfaro, who will immediately replace Realmuto in their starting lineup, two pitching prospects (right-hander Sixto Sanchez and lefty Will Stewart) and $250K in international slot money.
For the Phillies, the Realmuto acquisition is the latest win-now move in an offseason packed with them. Coming off their seventh straight non-playoff season and sixth consecutive sub-.500 campaign, the Phillies are aiming to push for a playoff spot in 2019 with newcomers Realmuto, Jean Segura, Andrew McCutchen, David Robertson and possibly Bryce Harper or Manny Machado helping lead the way. And Realmuto – who was the undisputed premier catcher in the game last year – will help their cause beyond the upcoming campaign, as he’s controllable through 2020.
For the Marlins, the Realmuto trade is the latest win-later move dating back to last winter, when the low-budget club traded Giancarlo Stanton, Christian Yelich, Marcell Ozuna and Dee Gordon for futures. In Alfaro, they received a player who showed a penchant for striking out and little ability to walk from 2017-18, his first two seasons of extensive major league action. But Alfaro was nonetheless respectable at the plate during that span, and the cannon-armed 25-year-old is fresh off a season in which he earned raves from defensive metrics. To this point, then, Alfaro has been a satisfactory pro. However, whether Alfaro will continue to serve as an acceptable starter or fall backward could hinge on improving his high-strikeout, low-walk ways, especially considering he won’t keep running a career .405 batting average on balls in play.
While Alfaro’s the only current major leaguer Miami got for Realmuto, Sanchez looks like the biggest prize. Despite the 5-foot-10, 185-pounder’s diminutive stature, each of FanGraphs, Baseball America, MLB.com and ESPN’s Keith Law rank Sanchez between fifth and 35th on their list of the majors’ top prospects. All of those outlets and individuals agree the flamethrowing Sanchez has the upside of a front-line rotation piece, and at 20 years old, he’ll breathe new life into the Marlins’ farm system. Although Sanchez hasn’t pitched above the High-A level yet, once he gets to Miami, he could emerge as its best starter since the Jose Fernandez era came to a tragic conclusion in 2016.
Stewart, 21, is far less intriguing than Sanchez, with MLB.com ranking him as the Marlins’ No. 25 prospect. Whereas Sanchez is a potential No. 1 starter who possesses electrifying velocity, MLB.com regards Stewart as a possible back-end type whose velocity is “average.” To Stewart’s credit, though, he did post tremendous results last year at the Single-A level, where he logged a 2.06 ERA with 7.13 K/9, 1.66 BB/9 and a 62.1 percent groundball rate, mimicking the best version of Dallas Keuchel in that regard.
With Alfaro, Sanchez, Stewart and a bit more international spending room in tow, there’s plenty for Miami to dream on going forward. The Phillies, meanwhile, made a substantial near-term upgrade behind the plate, albeit one that cost them their previous No. 1 prospect and another promising hurler. In your estimation, how did the two teams fare in this swap? Cast your votes below…
(Phillies poll link for app users; Marlins poll link for app users)
B for Phils, A for Marlins
I agree. The Phils gave up a ton here, but they did get a legitimate star.
What a joke, the Phillies got a steal based on what the marlins were asking for from other teams. Absolutely a joke. Phillies are world’s better with him. Marlins now have a prospect that may or may not turn out to be ok
Isn’t that exactly what every prospect is? That’s the point. Are you still salty that the Braves didn’t get him? Take it up with AA. The guy needed to keep his prospects, Good for him.
Fangraphs has Sixto as a 60 FV prospect and potential ace. That’s more valuable than ANY player they reportedly asked the Braves for. Just because you believe you have the best prospects in the world with no holes in their games, doesn’t mean it’s true. Take your homer glasses off. Sixto would be the Braves top ranked prospect if he was in their system.
The Phillies were asking for guys like Ozzie Albies and Noah syndergaard so yeah I’d say sixto is definitely a drop off in what they could’ve gotten
There is a BIG difference in what they were asking for and what they were offered. They wanted Sanchez and Andujar from the Yankees and the Yankees wouldn’t offer either one of them straight up for him. The haul they got from the Phillies was definitely too low but they should have either traded him last year or waited for a better offer.
I think you mean the Marlins, but if they were really asking for Syndegaard and Albies then that’s obviously crazy. I think Syndegaard is basically untouchable unless, like, Mike Trout was being offered or something and Albies is already an established major-league asset, although he has some work to do. I doubt the Braves would move him for a player, even a better player, with much less control. As great as Realmuto is, he still only has two years of control left and if his 2019 is anything like his 2018 he’s going to set a record in arbitration next year in terms of salary. He’s a cheap player compared to his production this year but that’s the last time that’s going to be true, so getting a great prospect and a good defensive catcher with some upside seems like a reasonable return for him.
If the Yankees were given the option of a straight up trade using either one of those players to get Realmuto, than they’d be complete idiots not to make the trade. Though it’s been reported nowhere on that…
I don’t see it. Alfaro is already an MLB proven catcher. His defense is already better than Realmuto’s. His offense needs work, but he’s young. Sixto Sanchez is a top pitching prospect with legitimate ace potential. These two alone make the deal with it. Not to mention a third highly rated prospect and money, I don’t think the Marlins’ asks for other teams was more than this.
You must’ve missed the article from yesterday that said Albies was “never a demanded centerpiece.” The actual ask was 2 of Pache/Riley/Top 100 pitcher.
That’s what negotiating is. You start big and end up smaller. What’s your point? Marlins got the 13th best prospect in baseball according to Baseball America and a solid catcher in Alfaro who has 5 years of control left.
It isn’t a steal just because the marlins were previously asking for more. That’s the negotiating tactic, ask for the moon and settle for less. B for both teams
I agree this was not s good deal.
You can’t give up the best player at his position for 2 prospects with major warts, international bonus space, and a AAAA pitcher.
How many guys have successful careers striking out like Alfaro?
That means he’s s giant bust candidate.
How many TOR starters are 5’10”?
Very few which is why Sanchez is a major bust candidate.
This reminds me of the Yelich trade where the amarlins took back multiple guys with major flaws.
How has that deal worked out so far?
Alfaro actually not good defensively – he is a passed ball machine – love his arm, and think he may be decent offensively, but if he hasn’t learned how to block pitches at this stage, I doubt he will ever
That was the starting point, that went down once talks really started happening. MIA wanted Anderson and Riley from ATL they only would give Riley and lesser prospects. Same with NYM. MIA wanted one of Rosiario/Nimmo/Conforto and a prospect or two but not necessarily a top 3 prospect. Phillies were willing to give up a consensus top 35 prospect in all of baseball PLUS a major leaguer in Alfaro who was a top 70 prospect a year ago and a high floor ok ceiling guy in Stewart who very much looks like a legit #4 rotation guy in a couple years. So i’d say thats a big haul and nearly identical in terms of value as their wants from other teams including Braves and Mets. Plus $250K in intl money can go a looong ways. Sixto was signed for $35K and Acuna was signed for $100K…..
That’s exactly how these kinds of trades work. Proven star for talented prospects. Win win.
His defense metrics were better than Realmuto’s at the end of the last year.
The Brave fan is starting to sound like a Mets fan
So you are telling me the Marlin’s went into the winter meetings demanding the likes of Andujar/Sanchez from the Yankees, Bellinger from the Dodgers, Conforto from the Mets and you mean to tell me they never demanded Albies from the Braves? They were going to cut a deal with the Braves and only ask for prospects? Please. Hmmm…I wonder why the Mets settled on Ramos, the Braves on McCann, and the Dodgers on Russell Martin? Rosenthal is reporting on a comment from the Marlins FO most likely and they are desperately trying to cover up the fact that they screwed up this negotiation royally. By the time they came back down to earth on their demands there were at least 3 suitors who already filled the role by other means and giving up a package equivalent or better to the Phillies just didn’t make much sense. But yeah, I’m sure Albies was a demand back when the Braves were serious about acquiring JTR.
Jobusrum9,
According to milb.com, Sixto is 6’0″
Oh sure! Rosenthal’s wrong, Heyman is wrong, they’re all wrong and your assumption is correct. What were we all thinking?? 2nd best prospect pitcher in baseball (according to BB America), a powerful catcher who calls a solid game and has 5 years of control, and a mid tier prospect for 2 years of Realmuto. Stop saying idiocies, you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
According to Keith Law, he’d be the Braves #4 prospect. He’s below and farther away from the majors than Wright, Toussaint or Anderson.
You have lost your mind if you think Zixto is more valuable than all stars like Ender Inciarte and Ozzie Albies. Already established all stars. Also he is not ranked too much higher than Ian Anderson. The Braves would have been foolish to send Ozzie/Ender and Ian Anderson for Realmuto. That would have been foolish
Realmuto/Alfaro Comparison
Potential blocked wild pitches: JT- 90.5%, Alfaro- 86.5% (worst % in baseball amongst C); this stat could even been worse because it’s only potential wild pitches, it doesn’t include Alfaro’s league leading passed ball rate as he nearly had 50% more passed balls than the #2 catcher on the list.
Runs Saved by blocked balls (min. 3000 chances): JT- 8th of 115 catchers, Alfaro 112th of 115
Arm Strength: JT- 86.8mph (2nd in baseball), Alfaro- 90.8mph (1st in baseball)
Pop Time: JT- 1.90s (best in baseball), Alfaro 1.94s (3rd in baseball)
Exchange Rate: JT- .68s (4th in baseball), Alfaro .73s (17th in baseball)
Also, in line with those numbers, Realmuto ranked 3rd in baseball with 38% runners caught stealing. Alfaro was below league average around 26%, nearly the bottom in the league.
Batting Lines: JT- 286/.338/.454, Alfaro- .262/.324/.407 (To put into perspective, Alfaro had those lines in nearly 250 less PA’s. Alfaro also struck out in nearly 38% of his PA’s and he had a ridiculous (and unrealistic .414 BABIP), if you adjust Alfaro’s BABIP for the league average or slightly above it, Alfaro’s line would look more like this (.201/.262/.350). Also, on JT’s side, he played 81 games in a pitcher friendly park which impacted his numbers as well as not having any other bats in the lineup to protect him. Realmuto has a nearly .100 OPS greater than the league average for catchers. .057 better BA than league average, .030 better OBP than league average l, and .063 better SLUG than league average.
Alfaro’s one saving grace is he was ranked as the #5 pitch framer in baseball, Realmuto graded out as league average. However, in turn Alfaro lead baseball in passed balls, also the knock on Alfaro as a prospect was defending and primarily his receiving. The Phillies are convinced they can improve Realmuto’s pitch framing like they did Alfaro’s.
In regards to Sixto, he has an electric arm and he’s only 20, but he’s had elbow issues the last two seasons. 6’ tall pitchers with max effort deliveries are a risky proposition. Also, Sixto fell out of favor with the Phillies, he came into camp last year out of shape & overweight. He’s still young but the Phillies have said that he doesn’t value conditioning which probably contributed to his elbow troubles. For all the chances he can be Pedro Martinez, he can also be Neftali Feliz.
I saw Will Stewart pitch 5 times last season and High A adapted to him quickly. All of his numbers faded as the season went on. By the end of the FSL, Stewart was averaging barely 6 K/9. He’s somewhat projectable but left handed starters with fastballs in the low 90’s are commonplace in the minors. The Phillies have a rather thin upper crust of pitching prospects, Stewart wouldn’t be anywhere near the top 10/15 in any other top farm system. He’s not a throw-in but he’s not any real name to talk about at least right now. His ceiling is probably a fifth starter at best, Marlins fans would best compare him to Dillon Peters.
At least right now, the Phillies “won” this trade. They get the best catcher in baseball on an affordable deal. Also, even though he’s only on 2 years, the Phillies are a big spender, they can afford to extend him, which means you’d have to grade this differently than it would be if there was a smaller/mid market club acquiring him (like the reds for example). Yes, Alfaro has 5 years or control, but if they’re on a different tier, does it really matter? Alfaro is also 25, he’s only 2 years younger than JT, it’s not like he’s been traded for someone whose 7-9 years his junior/senior.
The lottery ticket is Sixto, if he develops than the Marlins salvage this deal but it’s most likely going to take a few years to really “grade” this deal. Also, just for the prospects of Sixto, the Phillies sold high on Sanchez, dealing with multiple elbow concerns and his build, one more injury could torpedo his value. It was a make or break time for the Phillies to choose whether they would commit to Sixto or not.
Priggs89,
That may be true about Sixto. He is a great prospect. If the package from the Braves was Riley or Pachee and Ian Anderson or Soroka plus a smaller prospect–I think that would be a bit more than the Phillies gave up.
Pachee is said to play the best centerfield in the game right now, His floor is extremely high and his ceiling as he grows is seriuosly high. Riley comp from many in the organization is a Troy Glaus. Riley’s ‘coachablility’ and ability to make adjustments makes him a strong choice to succeed. In a farm without a bunch of fielding prospects these two are, in my mind, incredibly important.
Mike Soroka has been discussed a bunch, but he can flash 4 plus pitches and with possibly the best control in the minors. His Maddux like intelligence with pitching leaves everyone saying he is way way beyond his years. He does have a shoulder injury which is a big concern; however, all the medicals are pointing to a clean recovery. Soroka is a pitcher who can step out on the mound and finds only one of his pitches ‘working’ and can still get to the 8th. His floor is incredibly high. Ian Anderson has some scouts raving about him since he started in low A. I think he has allowed only two homers professionally. I have heard more than one Scout say he is the best pitching prospect in the Braves organization.
I believe the Braves were willing to give up one of these 4 and then a Wilison, or a Wentz etc plus a Allard or a Ynoa.
To trade more than any of these 4 would have been reckless in my mind for two years of JTR.
Sixto is a smaller power pitcher who I hope has a great career. I don’t think he would grade out as the best pitcher in the Braves. Perhaps having the best tools? Alafaro could be a great catcher, defiantly great arm. Striking out 35 % of the time is tough. He is very young and should get better.. The 3rd pitcher from the Phillies seems to have been more of a Marlin thing than any of his numbers.
Even if Alafaro and Sixto do well. I could see Pachee beating them in war for their first 6 years combined, same with the other 3.
The Marlins did good. Phillies did great.
period.
Unless the Phillies are going all in on the next 2 years the idea that they can afford to extend Realmuto doesn’t justify the trade. It also means they could have afforded to sign him in 2 years without trading for him. I would say that it would have made more sense for the Reds who have more of an urgency to get him on the cheap than the Phillies.
Absolutely so many people hold these prospects so high and we know that the Phillies prospects don’t ever pan out aka Dominick Brown and J.P Crawford
Alfaro is a strikeout machine (37% of plate appearances were SO’s) and can’t block a ball to save his life. His arm is very strong, but overall he is not great defensively. Realmuto is a significant upgrade.
Realmuto is far from a star. He’s the catcher flavor of the day. Decent at his peak but not great at anything. Remember Johnathan LuCroy?
Baseless, hater comment
That’s how I voted. As a Phillies fan, I felt like it’s an A for the Marlins getting Sanchez. Had the Phillies been able to keep Sanchez, then I’d elevate them to an A and Marlins to a B (assuming Sanchez is replaced by Medina/Romero/Howard and maybe a lesser prospect).
Agree
A Phil’s, D Marlins
Marlins receive an oft injured pitcher D, a strikeout prone catcher D, and a A level stud Pitcher B.
I predict their best player in the trade is the A level pitcher.
i gave the Marlins a d too, sixto may or may turn out well but realmuto was their one real chip to help what is arguably the worst system in baseball right now. it’s understandable that they asked for more but i would think they would want more certainty in the return with a headline position player than a high upside pitching prospect with an injury history.
How do injuries in a single season constitute being oft injured?
I put b Phils a marlins as well. It makes a lot of sense for both teams and let’s face it Miami was never getting Chris sale level return. But this is pretty close. Sanchez is promising but I heard rumors that phillys front office was starting to tire of him and they definitely made the most of him as a trade chip. Meanwhile Alfaro has quite an arm and doesn’t have too far to go at the plate. Just a little more discipline. Love this for Miami looks like they’re finally not making horrible decisions and they’re building a future while philly is gearing up for a right and exciting division race. They’re right in the thick of contending now
I would do that trade any time to get a proven player like the best catcher in the league. Sanchez is not proven and might be injury prone. Good Job Klentak
A prospect isn’t proven? We’ve got a Sherlock over here.
Who cares. Do the pole in 2 years
Haha. Pole.
Clearly many people care about this pull
A pool is better.
That’s what she said…
As a Phillies fan, I feel that this is an overpay
It was inside the division.
It didn’t hurt the Phillies when Carlos Carrasco turned into a good pitcher since they don’t compete with his team. Sanchez could be beating them for years.
It’s an overpay for sure.
Just like my wife when she saves me ‘SO much money’.
I agree that it’s an overpay. They gave up many years of cheap control on high ceiling talent.
It’s not an overpay, realmuto is the best catcher in baseball, which is one of the most important positions. They gave up one top prospect basically who has a lot of injury risks, if anything the marlins overpaid
He was only the best because Posey was injured.
Posey has been declining the past few years and realmuto has been getting better the past few years. In my opinion realmuto is a better overall catcher than posey
Until Realmuto hits 30 dingers and knocks in 90+ from the 5 hole.
Is this William or just bill giles?
I give the Braves an F and I know 1000% certainly they’re the losers in this trade. Didn’t get to comment on the excellent write up from yesterday, but it’s baffling the Braves would let this one slip by. As mentioned, it would not have made a dent in their prospect ranking/pool, and they are perfectly positioned to be competitive these next couple years.
I’m not even a Braves fan, but sometimes I watch the Braves like it’s Groundhogs day, hoard prospects, watch 90% of them flame out, 5 years later not win anything, then go on to losing seasons and start the process over again. I read some comments yesterday and I know many agree with my logic.
The Marlins did fine. The Phillies did great. The Brave well, oi vey,
AA will do it eventually. I think the Braves are taking a step back to take 2 steps forward in 2020. Although as much as I love Donaldson I wouldn’t have signed him. Camargo deserved another shot at improving his D at 3B.
After the 2019 season the Braves will have about $105-mil committed. Could be less if they deal or non-tender Gausman. That said, Braves could have been major players for Harper had they avoided Donaldson and Markakis. AA doesn’t believe in contracts beyond 5-years (his words in Toronto).
The contract AA signed Donaldson should be in the same thought as Harper’s deal. If Harper is signed, it is because ownership wanted to boost the value of their team. There is some risk with Donaldson, but he has been healthy most of his career, and we still have Camargo. If they don’t sign Harper, it won’t be because of Donaldson.
Should not* (love mobile app)
Actually, the Braves are only committed for about $35M in 2020 before arbitrations and if options are declined, per Cot’s Contracts.
So, which 1 of the potential pitching studs & which potential star position player would you give to a DIVISION RIVAL to have 12-14 yrs of control (combined) in exchange for potentially ONLY 2 yrs of JTR? i may be in the minority but i’m very very VERY glad the Braves are staying true to the course. Remember this season is the year they were expecting the kids to start performing. Last year was ahead of anticipation/expectations.
Prospectnvstr, you used the word “potential”, and that’s the whole point. Alfaro is the only “known” in the deal. The others are just potential.
The speculative 12 – 14 years of control you mention is meaningless because both Stewart and Sixto could fail. AAMOF, base on the attrition rate of pitching prospects it’s mathematically likely that at least one of them will fail
I’m glad you’re happy with your team’s staying the course. You have a right to your opinion.
But the reality is that not all of the prospects the Braves have will reach MLB much less their potential, and thus, sometimes it’s wise to use those prospects – to “sell” them – to acquire proven talent if you think the cost is acceptable.
As a Phillies fan I really don’t care what the Braves do, but I am glad they didn’t get Realmuto, because with him the Braves would have been a much better team.
It’s going to be a fun season.
Didn’t the Braves win last year?
MIA got the most production (via WAR) from C position in 2018, ATL 8 of 30 teams. Sure, Suzuki is gone, but Flowers should be better, combined with McCann, they should still be above average. I couldn’t see them rushing Contreras, but there has been talk he could be ready end of this year the way he is progressing. MIA clearly wanted more from ATL and I’m glad they held firmin their stance. I look forward to seeing what Contreras is all about.
I don’t agree the Braves lost this trade 1000%. JTR would be an upgrade, yes. The Braves have gotten good production from Flowers/Suzuki and should get good production from Flowers/B Mac. In 3 months if they need to make an addition they can and they wont have to give up (Riley/Pachee) or (Anderson/Soroka). Yes Jtr would be nice. I would rather see what those 4 particular prospects do this year before I send them off in a trade for a position already covered.
While a .405 BABIP is unsustainable, Alfaro is going to have a high babip. His line drive rate is pretty high and players who hit line drives are going to have higher BABIPs than those who hit ground balls or fly balls.
All kinds of red flags with Sanchez, but Stewart is easily a top ten prospect for the Marlins. Who has had better results in A ball? Hard to find them.
Definitely not a Top 10 prospect for the Marlins. It’s a common misconception that the Marlins have a horrible farm system. They don’t. They were lacking in superstar prospects but are very deep in terms of solid prospects (Pipeline has 16 of them at a 50 grade) while other teams average about 8-10. While Stewart looks good, he’s in the 15-25 range in Miami’s system.
Again, what Marlin pitching prospect matched what Stewart did in A-ball? Not a one.
Yamamoto for one. He’s not a Top 10 either. Results are important but stuff is more.
I’ll take results any day.
Especially in the LOW MINORS, results are not the most important commodity in a player. Results are more important once they are establishing themselves in AA.
Keith Law has Stewart listed as the Marlin’s #8 prospect, with Sanchez #1.
Phillies-A-they get the best C in baseball and they have the deep pockets to keep him around and he is still in his prime.
Marlins-C+-Alfaro is about to turn 26 and still hasn’t figured out what the strike zone is at the plate, Sanchez is very slender and already has shoulder/elbow issues. Stewart could be a BOTR starter
Marlins D. Very poor return
Yeah I think we have to see if they strike an extension with Realmuto. If they lock him up for 5 yrs at a reasonable price its a lock A+ trade
@13morgs13
Marlins had Realmuto, Giancarlo Stanton, Christian Yelich, Marcell Ozuna and Dee Gordon…the aforementioned who were traded…as a core. Any team who assembled that core today would be in an enviable position.
And Brad Hand
I can understand trading Stanton, and maybe Gordon. Stanton was about to go to a $25M paycheck in 2018, Gordon $10M. If you take them out of the mix, their commitments in 2018 before arbitration were about $60M. They should have traded those two for whatever pitching prospects they could get and keep the rest of the team intact.
Yeah,this was an odd overpay. You paid for an offensive catching upgrade. Defense remains the same. Those pitchers will pan out. So will that slot money.
Realmuto will certianly allow less passed balls.
Sixto is ticking time bomb. His arm already started to explode last yr… 5’10” and can hit 103. Sounds real safe
I used to love Sixto, but once I started seeing the injuries pop up, with his stature and how hard he throws, I soured on him quickly. Plus I’ve read rumors about him possibly needing thoracic outlet surgery in the future. Yikes.
Has bullpen written all over him, which isn’t a bad thing when considering the likes of Hader, Chapman, Miller, etc. But I’ll gladly part with that and a catcher who for 4 years has been “working hard to improve his defense and plate discipline” and still led the league in pass balls and struck out a third of the time he hit for one of the best catchers in baseball currently and likely for the next 4-5 years.
Another sign of the Marlins running their AAAA organization to take talent and trade it to groom that talent and then trade it to then….repeat as necessary…
They got a steal compared to what was being asked from the braves. It was a lot but their team is dramatically better because of it. Marlins are a joke and could have gotten way more for him if they weren’t dumb.
AA wasn’t in on Realmuto on a serious level. He likes to jump in on players when he knows a rival team in the division is involved in-order to drive up the price. He did this all the time in Toronto. “…and the Blue Jays are interested in _____”
It’s a great PR move to make himself and the organization look like they finding ways to make the team better, and it forces other rival teams to give up more to secure the player they want. In this case, Philly (and the Marlins to an extent.
“They got a steal compared to what was being asked from the braves. It was a lot but their team is dramatically better because of it. Marlins are a joke and could have gotten way more for him if they weren’t dumb.”
This drama has been going on since last JULY. I’d imagine that this was the absolute best that they could get in there eyes.
i dont see why people are grading the Marlins lower than the Phillies. Alfaro has flaws, but even now is not a bad hitter for a catcher. Sixto is a bona fide TOR prospect. as much as one could dock them a grade point for waiting so long, they probably got better then most teams would’ve offered them even last year.
Wrong JF link
Jeter knows less than people think. If they would of kept the team together then they could of added pieces to become a force.
It sounded like the Marlins were in financial trouble. Jeter is trying to build through the farm while the health of the organization is rebuilt.
I agree, Stanton, Yelich, JT Real, man those are exceptional players.
And people want to give Jeter & Co. a free pass blaming it on the previous ownership but they’re running things the same.
Not really. The Stanton contract was killing them, SP Free Agency sucked last year and this one and they had ZERO (LITERALLY ZERO) pitching (Volquez and Chen were their aces) as well as THE WORST farm in baseball. That is not sustainable. Breaking it was the right decision.
No it shows you know nothing about baseballl
They would have had to buy an entire rotation.
The team stated publicly it had no interest in staying together and the pitching was just trash.
Adding to that would have just been a collosal waste of time and money. The Marlins should have blown it up sooner, frankly.
C for Phillies B for Marlins.
Phillies could have used prospects to upgrade their pitching staff and paid much less for a Catcher Ramos 9.5M, Grandal 16M than what an upgrade will cost for SP (Keuchel, 25M?).
If the goal is to spend stupid money on Machado and/or Harper, wouldn’t it be financially prudent to bring in cost controlled pitching?
The multiplayer trade with Yankees and Mets, if it landed them Andujar it would have been an A. Braves have 8 top-100 ranked prospects. Maybe they were holding out until Harper/Machado sign outside the NL East.
Keuchel’s not getting 25/yr.
I agree. Realmuto may destroy RHP but he surely isnt great against LHP. That is his only downside.
B for both teams.
The Phillies get the best catcher in baseball for two year, the Marlins have an everyday catcher for the next five seasons, a top pitching prospect, and some minor league depth.
It’s now up to the Phillies to capitalize on this and make some more late splashes in free agency so they can compete as long as they have Realmuto.
Next….come on Bryce the Phillies r waiting!!!!
Both teams get a C grade. Realmuto is overrated. And the Phillies didnt give up much.
No, no he’s not.
Wrong on both ends.
Hes good but he 5th in top 10 catchers.
would you please name off the four that are better?
Overrated how? He’s clearly the best catcher in baseball, and it’s not even really close. There were 6 catchers worth more than a win in fWAR in 2018. Realmuto is first at 4.8 and Grandal is over a win behind, at 3.6. (Contreras, Molina, Perez and Barnhart round out the top-6, btw). Being 25% better than the next best catcher is pretty impressive.
Molina
Contreas
Posey
Gary Sanchez
Realmuto
I’d honestly take that list and reverse it. That’s just me.
Contreas is best defensive catcher in baseball..he had a down year on offense.
He’ll have a bounce back season this year.
As a fellow Cubs fan I love Contreras and the passion he plays with but he is no Realmuto. One day he might be but his offensive numbers did decline this past year and no he was not ranked the best defensive catcher in the league
Sounds like Alfaro… right???
Just because the talking heads dont think hes ranked the best doesnt mean hes not the best. His numbers declined 9 of 11 homers were off AL p9tchers. 10 if you include ian Snell from the all star game. At worst hes the 2nd best defensive catcher.
Every small video clip of realmuto they show on the network throwing to 2md the runner is safe. And it’s the same clip everytime. Realmuto is the victim of all hype. He played for the worst team in baseball at least for the NL. I wish him well except I hope the 6 games vs the Cubs they give him the Harper treatment and walk him every time from 2015
In my mind way too early to judge trade.
Need time to see how new Marlins players produce
I see it as a win-win especially if the Phillies land Harper as well. Supposedly this move was made to entice Harper so if that happens, the trade can then be looked at as being Realmuto and Harper for Sixto etc…. as it stands now I still think it’s a win win
Not saying Alfaro has a cannon for an arm but he has a better are than Realmuto and is a better framer,The only edge Realmuto has is more experience,Alfaro will have a better year this year, Plus the Marlins received a pair of pitchers that should work out. Marlins A+. Phillies C-
A for Phils, B for Marlins.
“In Alfaro, they received a player who showed a penchant for striking out and little ability to walk from 2017-18”
.360 OBP in 2017 and .324 in 2018. Is that really that bad for a catcher?
Well, we can take the 2017 season first; he only had 114 PAs; he walked 2 times and struck out 33 times. His 360 OBP was entirely a function of his 318 BA along with getting hit by 4 pitches. It’s a tiny sample size.
His 2018 was much more problematic. He had 377 PAs, drew 12 walks and struck out 138 times. He did get hit by 14 pitches (more HBP than walks drawn!) so if that’s a skill he has then that helps his OBP quite a bit, but I don’t know if getting hit by pitches is generally a repeatable skill, unless you’re Don Baylor.
Also, Alfaro has a .405 BABIP in his career. That’s incredibly unsustainable, even for a guy who has good footspeed (for a catcher). If that BABIP drops even to a still-high .350 or something then his bat really doesn’t play.
Alfaro has serious plate discipline issues. He has a lot of pop in his bat that we haven’t really seen yet in the big leagues though. The bar for being a decent hitting catcher is low and I think there’s a chance he could get there but he’ll have to do something about his 36% K rate if he’s to cut it with the bat. He’s either got to go the way of Zunino and improve his plate discipline via the walks or go the way of Sal Perez and limit the K’s. There’s serious work to be done there before he’ll cut it though.
I love that the Phillies got JTR, not that my opinion means anything and I’m no scout but I’ve never been that high on Sixto. I get that he has a TON of potential but he’s undersized, never been above single A, already having arm problems which could deteriorate his velocity and control. Yes he could end up a stud but there’s also a chance we never see him in the majors. Love the win now mentality from the Phils
Agreed and JTR posted those #s in Miami… he will definitely be way more productive in Citizens Bank Park!
Absolutely
Umm, I don’t think Sal Perez, with his 17/108 BB/K rate and his 274 OBP should be the aspiration here. His offense is really taking massive steps back at this point.
Phillies should have signed Wilson Ramos and saved the prospects. But I’m glad the Mets did.
Can you revisit this poll in 3-5 years? Team that gets the mlb player with stats usually wins the day of the trade . Chapman won cubs a World Series and Sale the Red Sox . Time will tell if Yankees with Torres and white Sox with moncada will win any or may win multiple . Doesn’t a Mlb guy say prospects are nice but World Series parades are nicer?
Revisit it in 2 yr when JTR is on a different club and all 3 prospects for the Marlins have been traded for additional prospects.
In my perspective it was really a fair trade with both teams grading A. Phillies are in win now mode and received the best catcher in the league to help them with their goal whereas the Marlins are rebuilding and receive two very good prospects that could help their future.
Not to mention the A for both teams for finally letting us be done with the JTR rumors
I’m glad the Phils have the guts to make trades now. They wimped out years ago not giving up Dom Brown to get Roy Halladay in 2009. The lost the World Series that year and Brown was a bust. The have done the same for years noting that certain players were off the table, and most of them have also been busts. Sometimes you just have to risk the chips for a proven commodity. Where I don’t think catcher was a spot they needed to improve as much as other areas, the additional offense should help them win more of the one run games they tend to lose.
no one they traded for Halladay ended up being anything. At least Brown had one good year. (2013)
Marlins may have an above average starting catcher and a good young starter with years of control. This was a good trade for the Marlins, and seems like a lot for the phillies to give up for 3 extra WAR.
Pitiful Marlins “talent” judges think they did great because they clearly do not know talent or value. Marlins get an F on this deal, Phillies get an A. Trading the best Catcher in MLB for a past prospect status catcher, and injury prone short hard throwing former SS who is learning how to pitch and over throwing to compensate for lack of pitching experience which causes his arm injuries, and just another 21 yr old Class A pitcher. Even those who don’t believe the consensus expert prospect rankings have to accept that the Marlins will field a pitiful excuse for a team again in 2019 (how many years in a row does this make?) and have very little chance for future improvements without a talent pipeline. But, hey they dumped lots of player costs to under Jeter.
haha you have no idea what you’re talking about. That sucky pitcher you’re talking about is a consensus Top 25 prospects in baseball, #13 in Baseball America. Throws 100, has 2 plus secondaries and a 70 grade command. Are you another salty Braves fan who’s still whining about your mediocre team not having the balls to get Realmuto?
Ah, a truly intelligent response. NOT! Nowhere in my comments were the words “sucky” or “Braves” or that Sanchez (who is rated #27 by MLB) doesn’t throw hard. In fact, my comment specified that he is “hard throwing”. And to correct your uninformed comments, the Braves are not mediocre as they won the NL East Division. My comments were that the Marlins are horrible judges of talent and value and will once again field the worst MLB team and somehow expect the baseball fans of South Florida to pay to watch that collection of 4A players.
You said the Marlins are horrible judges of talent yet Sanchez is a top rated prospect in all of baseball. You must know something that all the scouts out there do not.
And how can you give the Marlins a F. They had the best catcher in baseball but were not going to contend or do anything with him anyway so the best option was to trade him and get some future prospects out of the deal. Maybe the guys will pan out and maybe they won’t but when you trade for a prospect you trade for potential and they got a lot of future potential out of the deal which is a win for the Phillies and a win for the Marlins.
Marlins are horrible judges of talent because they have so little talent after years of earning high draft choices. And, Marlins are horrible judges of talent because when even their scouts luck into a good player, they trade him away for 3 magic beans who disappear soon after the trade. Trading MLB’s best catcher for only one Top 100 prospect (an often injured one at that) and a hope and a prayer proves my point, especially since this is a repeated pattern.
Phillies get an A. They don’t need Alfaro because they have JTR (I fully expect them to extend him). The two prospects, while very good, are still in A ball. They wouldn’t be helping the Phillies any time soon.
I was going to give the Marlins a C, but thought about what else they had a serious chance of getting, and raised them to a B. Alfaro was the key to this trade. He gives them a potentially league-average or better catcher with a lot of years of control. They won’t contend any time soon, so getting A ball pitchers works. Sanchez, if he can stay healthy, could be a future ace.
Most of the Braves pitching prospects are in AA or higher, and the Braves didn’t want to trade that near-term potential for just two years of JTR. They didn’t have a suitable MLB ready catcher, so they’d have to check down to Riley or Pache. Those two players are probably more valued by the Braves than the Marlins, so the pitchers they were willing to give up had to be of lesser grade.
Funny to read the comments on here and it makes me believe that it was a fair trade on both sides. There seems to be some who think Marlins got the better end and some that think Phillies got the better end. Most people seem to be in the middle kinda of how the polls are turning out.
In retrospect seems like a fair trade to me. I did lean towards the Marlins at first but thinking about a little more seems like a good trade for both sides.
In history trades are judged by how the players do. You don’t know what a prospect will do. You do know if a Major League player will be healthy and productive.
don’t
The Phils traded a “could be” (Sanchez), a “might be” (Stewart) and a warm body occupying a space (Alfaro) for a middle of the lineup impact bat, which (a) they really didn’t have and (b) is almost always crucial to success. That’s an “A-Plus”.
And the notion that they got JT for only 2 years is just silly. They have “stupid money”; they can afford to extend him.
Marlins? Uncertain. MIGHT work out; percentages say it won’t. We have no real idea what else they were offered. So it’s a “C” at best. .
Alfaro is a good defensive catcher who still might improve offensively. He’s not just a “warm body”.
The phrase “good defensive catcher who might improve defensively” applies to just about every starting catcher in MLB (except Yadi or Buster, maybe). That’s the definition of a “warm body”. Catchers have become a defense first position; everybody has one. And most can’t hit a lick. That’s fine; good defensive catchers have great value.
And nobody thinks JT is a BAD catcher; you can argue the minutiae, but he does a pretty good job back there.
agree
The Phillies having “stupid money” and being able to afford to extend Realmuto doesn’t make the trade better. It also means they could have afforded to sign him without trading for him.
C+ for the Marlins. B- for Phillies. The Phillies need to add another 3 or 4 win player to win in the 2 years they have realmuto or this is moot. The marlins got a potential ace or a potential injury plagued arm. Alfaro is 26 and has not changed his approach at the plate. A 280 OBP is not going to show any value
And before anybody says anything. Alfaro will not maintain the babip he put up last year. Subtract 80 points from his Batting average. He’s a poor mans mike Zunino who can’t block balls
Zunino’s a good comp, the difference being Alfaro is at minimum and Z-man makes 4M……that makes all the difference. DiPoto completely horse-whipped the Rays in that one….makes up for the Yarborough give away, I guess.
He’s also really young and you should not be acting like his 2018 will be every year for the rest of his career. Quality players improve over time, especially catchers. Your analysis is wrong here in putting some hardline cutoff on what player YOU think he is, and what Alfaro’s current profile is isn’t bad or wrong, it’s fluid. Wait for 3 more years of the same before making calls like this.
If I could vote A+ for the phillies, I would.
I’m a die hard Metfan since 1962. I wanted Realmuto bad, but Miami got greedy and asked for too much. Our G.M moved on, to our 2nd best option, Ramos. who is with out a doubt going to be an excellent fit. I say Phillies win, and Marlins lose, for being to greedy. We’ll have to see how this all plays out. Let’s go Mets.
How do the Marlins lose for being to greedy. They got what they thought was the best package available and I think they got fair value. I just think the Mets wanted to underpay for Realmuto then and instead a division rival ended up with the best catcher in the league
I think the trade was fair value for both sides, so an A for both. Marlins got another teams #1 prospect and an excellent younger replacement for the star in Realmuto, along with another quality pitching prospect; Phillies get the best catcher in baseball to plug into their lineup in what will be a very entertaining NL East race with 4 potential 90+ win teams in there.
Not only did the Phillies upgrade at catcher, they got the best catcher in the MLB. This trade can’t be judged in the near term, but teams did exactly what they were supposed to do as contender and rebuilder.
In terms of predicting this, Alfaro probably won’t turn into Realmuto offensively but he will be better defensively. Sanchez could become Pedro Martinez. He could also become Marcus Stroman. He could also become nothing more than he is right now. Stewart could become Dallas Keuchel. He could also become Mike Montgomery.
A for Marlins
I think they were in a position where they HAD to trade realmuto sooner than later. They were not going to win with him in the next two years and he publicly announced he wasnt going to resign with the Marlins as well as asked for a trade. They were in a position with a bunch of factors negatively effecting their leverage. Yet, they were still able to pull some top prospects and international bonus pool money (which teams should really take more advantage of). It will obviously take a while to see if any of the prospects pan out but to get that kind of return based on the circumstances is a job well done by the Marlins. I doubt it was possible for them to better here.
B for Phillies.
You can make the argument that they overpaid, but at the same time the team should be desperate to seize their window of opportunity. All the other NL East teams besides the Marlins made serious upgrades and if the Phillies want to win soon they needed to too. They got a good catcher in JT. I think if I were the Phillies I would now try to sign one of Harper or Machado and maybe pick up Keuchel.
Hey everybody ur missing the sixers- Lakers game.stay toon!!!
Both teams did very well in this transaction. Both recieved what they wanted. Kudos to the Phillies for being aggressive, and to the Marlins for being insistent on recieving top tier prospects. Well done on both sides
This will prove to be a horrible trade for the Phillies. In 12 months, Alfaro will be considered a potential all-star and they stole the Phillies best pitching prospect as well. Klentak has been a disaster since becoming GM and this might be his dumbest move yet. After they fail to get Harper or Machado, the ownership needs to send this idiot packing.
Yes acquiring the best catcher in baseball for a maybe and a younger maybe is bad, lol
TheMilkman – I am 50% with you. I am not as high on Alfaro as you. He had a great arm. That is it. The arm threw into CF a lot and his defense, otherwise, was subpar. Sanchez was legit, and I am OK with this trade. We truly do not know what Sanchez will be.
Now, the rest we agree. Klentak and Kapler need to go. Both. How many times can we read about new problems coming out from Kapler? 3 so far from when he was with the Dodgers. Klentak is not a bad dude, but incompetent.
I don’t really want Harper or Machado, but I would take Machado over Harper given the two. I still think pitching is more important right now than these two.
Great trade unless you wanted to wait for Sixto to be legit while the rest of the lineup hit age 30
The Phillies’ club is getting better and better. If they can teach their 3,4,5 starters to pitch into the 6th and get Kapler to put the binder away, they can contend. One more solid bullpen piece…