Pirates owner Bob Nutting had some interesting comments on payroll and other matters in a recent chat with reporters, including Bill Brink of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Club president Frank Coonelly also opined on those topics, as covered by Nubyjas Wilborn of the Post-Gazette. Those pieces contain a wealth of worthwhile information and observations, but we’ll touch upon a few highlights here:
- As ever, the low-budget Bucs drew scrutiny for their finances. Despite nearly reaching $100MM in Opening Day payrolls in recent seasons, the club is presently hovering in the range of $70MM for the 2019 season. That downward movement in spending led Nutting to issue the money quote of the day: “We need to focus on the things we believe are controllable.” While that’s a dubious claim on some levels, Nutting explained that he believes “payroll scale and range, broadly, is not controllable.” As Brink notes, though, it’s a bit of a chicken-and-egg issue, as the team’s ability to generate local income is dependent in some part upon its on-field investment.
- Nutting unsurprisingly demurred on details, particularly relating to the question whether attendance dips were responsible for pulling down the payroll. He focused instead on the concept that the club is “always going to have limitations” and simply needs to “maximize the impact of every dollar” that is allocated to payroll. There was a hint that GM Neal Huntington could have some cash stashed in his back pocket. Nutting said that the long-time baseball ops leader “always has to have some room to work,” seemingly indicating that was the case at present.
- Coonelly put something of a different shine on things, saying that fulfilling a need “to get younger, more dynamic and more athletic” left the organization with a large number of pre-arbitration players, the presence of whom “explains our payroll.” As to concerns about how some of the roster spots were being filled (in particular, shortstop), Coonelly noted that “every established player in the big leagues was a player who had to establish themselves at some point.” That’s true enough in the abstract, though surely some would quibble on the details as pertains to some players. If youth is to account for the notably meager payroll, it won’t provide any excuses on the field. Coonelly said without equivocation: “My expectations are that the Pirates will win the NL Central.”
- Paying market rates to established big leaguers obviously is not part of the formula in Pittsburgh. But Nutting did offer some guidance on how the club is spending some of the $50MM it took home as its cut of the MLB Advanced Media sale. The organization intends to double the scale of its facility in the Dominican Republic, helping to facilitate a pipeline of affordable young talent. That sort of investment won’t boost present big leaguers — quite the contrary, perhaps. It’s of greater concern when viewed through the lens of the international changes instituted in the latest collective bargaining agreement, which place hard caps on the bonuses that can be paid to the very same players the Pirates are investing heavily in wooing and developing.
- Nutting did note that he would like to see some changes in the amateur intake system, however. Just what that might look like isn’t clear, but the Bucs owner suggested that minor-league earnings are in need of some corrections. As Brink quoted him on Twitter: “It’s time, and it’s past due, to take a serious, fresh look at how those are being handled.”
Jkolti
I am a pirates fan, and I have never complained about the payroll, it is what it is, whining wont do me any good. But why in the world to you trade away Hearn, Baz, Meadows, and Glasnow to “win now” and then slash payroll 30%? I simply can’t understand it this year, I just can’t.
Emerson83
I agree, the chris archer trade didn’t make sense
xXabial
it may make sense when/if he’s traded at deadline for prospects
herecomethephillies2018
Any prospects they get back won’t come anywhere close to matching what they gave up for Archer.
hiflew
But they could possibly be in more useful positions. Meadows is a good prospect, but not for the Bucs. They need infielders and/or catchers, not outfielders at the moment. Glasnow is about the same. The Bucs seem to find pitching everywhere. Pitching in PNC helps a lot there.
petrie000
Trading prospects for a player to flip for prospects never makes sense. It’s just some weird cycle of spending future assets for future assets rather the cashing them in. Which is frankly pointless.
DonB34
I don’t know how you can say the Pirates have no need for outfielders. Dickerson is in the last year of his contract… he’ll likely be traded in July. Marte will likely be traded after the season because he’ll have two years of control left, and that’s when the Pirates like to trade for the best value (i.e. Cole, tried to with Cutch). And Polanco is a bust at this point. He’ll be turning 30 before you know it and everyone in Pittsburgh will still be calling him “young and full of potential”. A guy like Meadows SHOULD have been playing every day this year, rather than a journeyman roll of the dice like Dickerson who will be gone soon anyway. Pirates will be lucky to finish 4th this year. No reason to have traded Meadows.
Black_Pearl
Your assumptions, Don, may end up correct but they’re just assumptions. They also have Martin, Reynolds and Reyes (possible MLB bench candidate) at AAA and Swaggerty should climb thru the system quickly since he was a college draftee.
Meadows was a good prospect but his pedigree was that of many Pirate outfielders: .280 avg, 20hr and 70 rbi. Solid numbers for sure but nothing to keep losing sleep over.
antibelt
Prospects are just that until they do something. Many of them bust, and if you look at these trades historically, you’ll find the mass majority of prospects rarely pan out.
Black_Pearl
Agreed, especially about Glasnow.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Exactly. That’s the painful part is not having a direction.
Hitting the panick button because ticket sales are down and trading for Archer randomly was not the answer.
Trading Baz & Meadows is super harsh during a rebuild.
They’re a joke and Huntington should have been fired years ago.
That Cole trade alone is top 5 worst trades of all time.
boo rad
Top #5 worst trades by Pirates of all time?
hiflew
Seems a bit early to even call the trade bad, let alone one of the worst ever. The prospects haven’t done that much in Tampa yet. Archer is still in Pitt for several more years. I understand that people want instant gratification in everything in life, but a deal like this will not give it. Be patient and after 4-5 years, then judge it.
The same thing with the Cole trade. Way too early to judge.
Black_Pearl
Well said hiflew
jbigz12
Not too early to grade the cole trade at all. They got low ceiling players back. Colin Moran might be a league average 3B. And that’s unlikely with his below average skills defensively. Musgrove was their best piece. Nothing else in that deal is a factor.
geejohnny
Ummmm….not even close unless any of the principals go on to win an MVP or Cy Young. The worst? The Aramis Ramirez salary dump of 2003 or so.
Sid8766
Your totally wrong. The Pirates traded Cole because he was leaving anyway & they got 4 major Leaguers for one. Moran & Musgrove are starters, Taylor is at AAA & Cole didn’t even have best ERA on this team. Williams was better than him 2 years in a row.He had a great year for Astros, but put him on Tigers & see what his record will be.
Black_Pearl
Correct Sid. Too many are grading that trade, and most others, on emotion instead of common sense. Those 4 need a chance to show what they have. It takes more than 1 season.
everlastingdave
Exactly right.
CL1NT
I am definitely not one that is involved in the “colluding narrative” that so many fans (and writers) have been pushing; but there is some weird stuff going on by teams league-wide.
And it’s not just in terms of being more careful with signings or offering free-agents less money. It’s like teams can’t make up their mind on whether or not they wanna spend or not!
The Braves have this surprise 2018 season, but then this year they reduce spending. They need an innings-guy at SP, some bullpen help and truly some depth on the bench – but nothing, except a one-year, $23 million deal signing on Josh Donaldson (which is a start!).
Meanwhile, currently Dallas Keuchel is out there. Craig Kimbrel is out there. But there’s no desire from Anthopolus to make it happen.
I’ve loved how Anthopolus has handled things in regards to being conservative with trading away some of the top-tier prospects (he hasn’t moved any yet, thank God). But I’m so confused on why he’s apparently done improving the team, when he’s got about $20-30 million left to play with presumably…
Smarteryhanyou
Keuchel or Kimbrel are not signed by any team, not just the Braves. If Philly loses out on Harper, then they probably make a push at the remaining FAs. Why would one of them sign prior to knowing if a big spending team is truely interested?
Scott Kliesen
I concur. The only thing I can think that makes any sense is the Pirates brass still feels they’re a year away from truly contending, and are stashing money to upgrade team next season. But I don’t believe it to be true. I just think they refuse to win a bidding contest for a desirable FA.
nonadhominem
“Nutting, Coonelly On Pirates’ Payroll, Outlook”:
Payroll: not much!
Outlook: Not mucn!
raisethejollyroger
Hahahahahahahah that is the synopsis! Perfect! They suck and always will
ronnsnow
Bob Nutting is nothing more than a Socialist politician. Refusing to invest in the team while sucking up and keeping all the money from the few fans the Pirates have left and doing the absolute bare minimum to keep the team moving. Its astonishing to me that Major League Baseball is allowing this to happen. The Pirates have totally alienated their fanbase and with the TV contract ready to expire, no one wants to watch this team.
zwmartin
That’s called supply side capitalism bud
Darth Alru
Your knowledge about socialist politicians is really small. What Nutting does is a pure capitalism.
Goku the Knowledgable One
Ya let’s make everything about politics.. or a better idea . Let’s not.
johnrealtime
I believe that people were talking about economics, but I guess things like capitalism and socialism are political buzzwords as well. Not in this context I think though.
It is amusing when a certain people don’t like something, they label it socialism. When it is often the most blatant capitalism
petrie000
A lot of people seem to think capitalism is a religion these days, sacred and infallible.
Scott Kliesen
It’s the absolute worst way to conduct commerce except for every other method known to man.
Scott Kliesen
People are not paying to go to games, but they’re definitely still watching on tv as the ratings show. One of the best ratings number in MLB last year.
Bocephus
Link lease
petrie000
That sounds like all politicians to me….
xabial
Even for a small-market club, I find it sad; Nutting’s Pirates never elapsed an opening day payroll of $100M
This man might be the worst (cheapest) owner, all sports
Goku the Knowledgable One
Theyve been right at or slightly above 100..
Like many are saying.. we don’t care as much about how much.. it’s how it’s used and when that is dumb.
Saddest part was coming so close in 2013 only to let Burnett, Byrd and Monreau all walk at seasons end.
Like jeez at least match those short term bloated contracts and go for a WS while u have the chance .. none of those guys signed for more than 2 years.
Think Burnett got like 32/1+1 , Byrd got 36/2, Morneau 8/1
Pathetic they refused to match those deals at a time of contention.
Instead they used Snider, Niese, & Pedro 1B to fill those holes during their once in a lifetime window
Goku the Knowledgable One
Sorry not Niese, Volquez, who they let walk after his breakout year.
Then brought back washed up Burnett a year late,, then replaced him with trading for Happ ,, who they let walk after his breakout year.
See a pattern?
oldoak33
Your chronology is wrong here.
xXabial
a’s on the last decade if you have done research ….oh and a TB…but then you speak before research
Phanatic 2022
Eclipsed?
xabial
94yankees,
eclipsed* not elapsed. Thanks for the correction!
clepto
Even for a small-minded MLBTrade commenter, I find it sad; Xabial never created a single comment that made any sense
This man might be the worst (dumbest) comenter, all MLBTR
Mendoza Line 215
I think that the Pirates really really need to have a good year this year or the fan base is going to go south.
Anything short of 87 wins will mean that it was unsuccessful inasmuch as they are claiming to vie for the division championship.
The fans are tired of the same old excuses.
sperly
AMEN brother!
CL1NT
They really should take a look at how the A’s and Rays do things…
My prediction for 2019 is a big year for the Rays. That organization has a crappy stadium, is cheap, has no fans, but still finds a way to play damn good baseball with what they have.
kenleyfornia2
This team had a legit world series window from ’13-’15 but could never get over the hump because this guy is so pathetically cheap
DonB34
This is the part that kills me also. Had they traded for or signed a starting pitcher that was better than Jeff Locke (not hard to do!) they likely win the division in 2014 and 2015, rather than go to the wild card game. both years. If they made it to the actual playoff series, who knows what could have happened. We might not be looking at 40 years of no World Series appearances right now. Even a World Series loss would have created a lot of revenue and maybe changed the paths of 2016 and 2017.
There is no window now. Marte, Taillon, and Vazquez will all be gone before this team sees a window again. They traded away basically every player they said to be building around, and Newman isn’t even good enough to win a starting job this season.
swartnp7
They could spend another $30 mill/yr (hello Dallas K) and still be lower than 4 yrs ago. A rotation of Taillon, Keuchel, Archer, Williams, & Musgrove/Keller would be tough to beat.
Wouldn’t it make sense to put the best product on the field leading up to the new TV contract?
I wish Nutting would realize he could be both rich AND the hero. Sadly, he only chooses rich.
jimmyz
They couldve signed Machado for the same deal he got in San Diego, thereby upgrading their biggest weakness, shortstop, and still only had a payroll around 100 million.
Phillies2017
Or they could have signed Schoop or Wlimer Flores which would still serve as a significant upgrade while saving money
jimmyz
That’s why Jose Iglesias not being a Pirate makes absolutely no sense.
tylerall5
Exactly, if Jose signs a minor league deal with anyone other than the Pirates, ownership and upper level management cannot say that they are aiming to compete. The division is too strong to not have an established option at one of the most key positions on the diamond.
Sid8766
Yep, Keuchel and Dozier on this team would give it a good chance, but I don’t think Kang or Newman & Frazier is better than Mercer & Harrison
jtkuch
I could understand using young players to fill holes. But Erik Gonzalez? Jordan Lyles? Are you kidding me? Jose Iglesias is about to sign a minor league deal with the Reds, while he would be a proven upgrade on the Pirates.
Also, how in the world is payroll not controllable? Are they actually self-imposing hilariously low limits on themselves in order to maintain a maximum profit, like we’ve been assuming for years? They have to assume Pirates fans are stupid if they expect us to believe this garbage. It’s getting ridiculous.
Brizzo123
So if salaries and payroll are going down why do ticket prices keep going up?
jimmyz
I love baseball, but I’d pay 20-30 bucks at least a couple times of year to watch turtles race around the bases just to see the city from PNC Park for three or four hours.
petrie000
If you get even a bad answer, let me know. The only response I’ve ever gotten to the question is ducking….
Phillies2017
The Pirates don’t seem to have much, if any direction and it seems likely to cost them in what looks as though it will be an exceptionally competitive NL-Central.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Starling Marte, Gregory Polanco, Chris Archer, Corey Dickerson, Keone Kela, Lonnie Chisenhall, Jordan Lyles and Felipe Vasquez were on the trade block by June
Scott Kliesen
In your dreams. If I were you, I’d be concerned about your team not spending the stupid money it claims to have. Speaking of stupid, how’s your Manager doing these days?
Phillies2017
Kapler is Kapler. He’s no Charlie Manuel but the players seem to respect him so my opinion doesnt matter. As for the money, Machado’s in San Diego so most of my fears and concerns are squashed.
halofan20
“Nutting” was looking to see what they meant by that.
ReverieDays
The Pirates lol
Sid8766
The Phillies, also A team with not much direction until this off-season, but do they have the manager & how much does Cutch have left in the tank?
bigwestbaseball
An example why MLB is a joke.
mattman0087
As a cards fan, watching the Pirates step it up out of seemingly nowhere to become a legitimate contender a couple years ago was awesome — it really made the division exciting.
It really sucks how quickly that went south, and even though I don’t follow the Pirates’ moves religiously, it’s pretty clear the front office has screwed the fan base out of a contention window.
I realize anything can happen over 162, but the quote about winning the division seems to be a stretch even for corporate speak…
Cobe821
Well stated. I’m glad fans from other teams can even see the misery we’re being out through. Since my Pirates have zero chance this year, good luck to you in your Cards’ quest for the division.
Scott Kliesen
Last I checked, your beloved team hasn’t seen the postseason since 2015 either. May want to hold your tongue until you win something besides the off-season.
Mendoza Line 215
Matt-I think that the Pirates have a chance to win the division,but only if everything breaks right for them,and the other four teams beat up on each other.
By not adding qualified vets as fifth starter,bullpen,and shortstop,they eliminated reserves for injury stopgaps,and the cushion that they needed for under performers.
NH has one way of doing things and cannot divert himself into any other mode.
I made the mistake of presuming that they would replace Nova and his $8M salary with someone better at slightly less money.He did a decent job for them for 2 1/2 years,and I think was a good fifth starter.
I realized that I was wrong when they had no one in mind,would go on the cheap,and were not really serious about contending inasmuch as they did not maximize their chances.
Management is not wise enough to realize that they must give their fans hope instead of the usual yadayadayada.
Gwynning's Anal Lover
I was expecting to open up the article and only seeing one word in it. The word “bleak”.
JaysForDays
I was expecting this article to be about Robert Kraft with that headline.
Phanatic 2022
Ha… that made my Friday yesterday.
TrusttheprocessSF
The pirates are cheapskates.
Sid8766
The Giants aren’t, they just suck as big as their payroll is ……which is very big!!!!
batty
What a shame that a team with such a storied history that reaches back into the 1880’s, and has such a beautiful ballpark, is owned by an owner like Nutting. If this was the direction they knew they were going from the onset of the off season, they should have traded Marte and a few others to fast forward the tear down/rebuild.
Strike Four
Yet another lying, greedy scumbag owner. MLB needs to step in and force all these billionaires to sell their teams if they flat-out refuse to put the best team on the field.
“He focused instead on the concept that the club is “always going to have limitations” and simply needs to “maximize the impact of every dollar”
Literally WHY though? If Nutting is never going to spend, then he MUST sell the team to someone who isn’t a coward. Nutting made 100x what any Pirates player made last year.
joew
most seem to be taking nuttings quote out of context.
“payroll scale and range, broadly, is not controllable.”
then right after he says that they cant control the market.
The Ghost of Bobby Bonilla
Nutting is just a sad, sad person and businessman and I’m not just talking about the Pirates only. I used to stay frequently at his ski resort he bought a few years ago. On my last stays, I noticed a huge decline in the quality of the food served there and less staff. When I asked about the changes, the employees shook their heads and told me “Bob Nutting”.
Cheap at all costs is the guy’s M.O.
DynamiteAdams
This guy is going to raid money from this team until it becomes just as bankrupt as his ski resort and newspaper company.
Solar Flare
I’m a Yankees fan, but I am so sorry about the fact that the Pirates have a pathetic Owner and General Manager, also I feel really bad for their fans about that.
stratcrowder
Same here, Solar. I don’t pretend to understand the economics of baseball, but the surface tells me that the system needs a massive overhaul.
What if every team threw all of their revenue into the same pool and then MLB divided it equally among all the teams? Then the weaker and poorly managed teams could reap the benefits of what the smart, big revenue teams are doing. It sure would make free agency interesting. I’m sure this isn’t a ‘new’ concept. Fantasy league’s with salary caps springs to mind.
Last thing….I feel sorry for the fans of teams that seem to be in a perpetual struggle, even when they’re managing to win some. I’m also a lifelong Reds fan in addition to being a lifelong Yankees fan, so I feel your pain through my Reds connection. I’d love to see the books for some of these starving teams.
petrie000
Honestly MLB already kind of does that. Teams like the Pirates make huge money off national TV rights that go to all teams, and revenue sharing programs that were supposed to give them spending money.
In most cases the money isn’t being spent on making the team better.
PiratesFan1981
I thought about going to a game this summer and drive 1,100 miles (one way) for it. But the effort this offseason tells me the Pirates are tanking this season. I refuse to put money into the travel expenses and ticket for a low budget team that doesn’t even make AAAA stats! I have supported the Bucs through their longest losing streak and I believe it is starting to go that away again. Makes Pirates fans wonder what Mark Cuban would have done by now.
DonB34
I was a former partial season ticket holder 1999 – 2017. I saw a lot of bad baseball in that time, but I supported. I only went to one game last season, and that was when Cutch was in town for his first game back. Do what I do…. make the trip to a Phillies game to remind ownership that we supported this team when they actually put a good team on the field, stand and cheer for Cutch, then go home happy that you saw a game AND made a point to the pathetic ownership.
mlb1225
I never ask for them to be up there in payroll like the Red Sox, Giants, Dodgers, etc. However, all I except is a few good, but small major league signings here and there. I did think the Chisenhall signing was a decent move, but they could have also made a move for Clay Buchholz, or a bounce back option like Drew Pomeranz, instead of Jordan Lyles, and Jose Iglesias to fill in short.
Strike Four
Thats a problem too: you SHOULD ask them to spend like the Red Sox. There’s no reason whatsoever for Nutting not to, other than him being greedy and wanting all the profits for himself, which is a big middle finger to the fans – so why not give one back to him?