The Giants have at least “talked about” swinging a deal with the Yankees involving outfielder Jacoby Ellsbury, according to Buster Olney of ESPN.com (Twitter links). Details of any negotiations remain unknown, as is the seriousness of the Giants’ interest.
Given Ellsbury’s cost, and the fact that he missed all of the 2018 season, the concept would only conceivably make sense if it involved a big, bad contract going back east. The Giants certainly do have some underperforming deals on the books, including Johnny Cueto ($68MM over three years, including buyout on 2022 option), Jeff Samardzija ($36MM over two years), Brandon Belt ($48MM over three years), Mark Melancon ($28MM over two years), and Evan Longoria ($61.5MM over four years, including buyout on 2023 option and excluding portion owed by the Rays).
Olney speculates that Cueto might make sense as a return piece, so long as the sides could even up the anticipated money somehow. Ellsbury is still owed just over $47MM over the next two seasons, including a buyout in a 2021 option. In theory, Ellsbury would step into the Giants’ barren outfield mix, assuming he’s able to get healthy, while the Yanks would collect insurance proceeds on Cueto until he’s ready to return from Tommy John surgery. (Ellsbury’s contract is also insured to some extent; the Yanks reportedly collected on it last year.)
It’s worth adding that the competitive balance tax hits for both players are quite similar, as both check in just under $22MM. That’s a key consideration for both of these teams, each of which is seemingly attempting to stay beneath the luxury line.
While there’s arguably some outward appeal to the concept — which, to reiterate, was presented only as a hypothetical — it seems like a questionable idea from the Giants’ perspective. Ellsbury was fading hard even before he missed all of 2018. While he was still a useful player, he likely profiles at best as a heavily utilized platoon man at this stage. At 35 years of age, Ellsbury comes with limited upside. Cueto had certainly not been at his best even before going under the knife, but he threw 219 2/3 innings of 2.79 ERA ball in 2016 and is still a few days away from his 33rd birthday. While the Giants might well like to take a shot on Ellsbury as a veteran piece, it seems much likelier that Cueto will end up returning something close to the value of his remaining earnings. With three pending free agents in the current rotation, the Giants will surely have a use for him, too. Perhaps it’s fair to think, then, that the Yanks would have to sweeten such a deal with young talent.
It’s interesting to wonder whether other permutations could instead be pursued. Samardzija might give the Yankees some desired rotation depth and could be an interesting candidate to work in a long relief role. He comes with a lesser tax hit of $18MM, but perhaps the deal could include a veteran reliever and deliver more young talent back to the Giants. There are certainly plenty of ways to sketch out tax-neutral scenarios, though at the end of the day it all depends just how interested the Giants really are in having Ellsbury on their roster — and how motivated the Yankees are to send him out. And the veteran outfielder will also have a say himself, as he enjoys full no-trade protection.
Merry late Christmas, Yankees fans !
It’s only Folly when it comes from Olney!
( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉)
Please dear god anything but this
The whole Giant team is great example for prove big-long contracts probably not smart, a lot. But still big respect that Giant don’t wave white flag, go for gusto every year.
Except Giants didn’t have “big long contracts” they had their homegrown players (Posey, Belt, Crawford, Lincecum, Bumgarner, Cain, Panik, Sandoval) help them win 3 WS, and in return rewarded them with extensions, some of which came in part to their 2014 WS run and some of which came in part to their 2016 playoff run. Eventually with all these games played the players burnt out, but there was nothing wrong with what they did. It gave them 3 championships.
Those contracts aren’t the one’s giving them problems right now and the writer didn’t suggest that they were the ones that originally signed those deals.
I agree with what he said. Evan Longotria is a great example of why signing Manny to a long-term deal can be risky.
Evan’s first 6 years totaled 34 WAR (FG). Manny’s total was 30 WAR.
Evan signed a team friendly extension than in essence was a 10 year $144 mil commitment. Manny wants double that in total dollars. Evan signed that going into his age 27 season, basically the same as Manny would be in April. Since signing that contract Evan’s production has gone downhill. Five 5+ WAR seasons in his first 6 years and only one single season with a 4+ WAR in the last 5 seasons. And Longo’s deal was not an open market bid. It was considered a bargain for the Rays at the time.
Great point!
Thank you for making the comparisons and posting this in such a succinct way.
Great point
Nailed it
Why?
Trade that bum for another bum sounds amazing
Let’s leave Posey out of this the Yankees don’t need a catcher/first baseman/do type
Man I hope you trolls get the joke here
Giants had previously been linked to Heyward too.
They must be adamant about picking up a bad contract.
And it has to be a lefty who doesn’t hit enough home runs!
Sure sounds like it
Even with their current contracts, they’ve got the cash. They just don’t have the core anymore to get them back to the promised land. That said, if they take on a big contract and get a decent prospect in return it could certainly help their rebuild process.
I know you’re not a troll, and enjoy reading your posts. Not all bad contracts are equal:
2 years is a bad contract? Maybe if you’re Cespedes.
Our friend Ellsbury is owed less than half Hayward’s (years and money). Heyward is owed more than 100MM
If Ellsbury plays, he’s an upgrade over Giants’ OF. Despite noodle arm, Ellsbury still plays respectable OF, and CF >> RF, if he plays.
If Ellsbury doesn’t play, insurance covers contract? Really hope that insurance policy is transferable.
Either that or the Giants have their own.
Pretty sure any team has insurance on all players – so they would be safe.
Heyward is more valuable than anyone they could offer the Cubs.
Miguel Cabrera might be available too, to complete the dream 2014 outfield…
Build it around shipping out Longoria + for Ellsbury and Andujar.
Why in the world would the Yankees trade Andujar for Longoria?
Not sure about Andujar coming back, but Longoria makes more sense from the Yankees standpoint than an pitcher who won’t take the mound until September.
He’s ellsbury. If the giants would give you Cueto, just take it. Longoria has a lot of years left on his deal. Yankeles want no part of that.
Except Longloria’s salary only counts as 11.2M which would lower the luxury tax for the Yankees.
Why on earth would someone trade 2 years of Ellsbury for THREE YEARS of Cueto? Only the Muts or some other idiot-driven team would make that move.
As for 80% of Cueto’s deal being picked up by insurance: so too is Ellsbury!
Plus: did this writer see how Cueto pitched in AL with KC a few years ago? The guy is absolutely nothing more than an NL pitcher—or as I call it: the 4A League. He’d get slaughtered in NY, just like Sonny Gray.
An Andujar for Longoria isn’t even a good joke. Yanks aren’t moving the MLBPA’s 2018 ROY and certainly NOT for Longoria.
idiot
You’re out of your mind if you think the Yankees will trade the ROY runner-up just to get rid of Ellsbury. A Cueto-Ellsbury swap seems just fine
Certainly the Yankees aren’t giving up Andujar just to dump Ellsbury and definitely wouldn’t then ALSO take bad money back. But the Giants also aren’t trading Cueto for Ellsbury. Cueto’s contract is only bad because he’s hurt, when healthy he’s very much worth that money. Ellsbury is always hurt AND he kinda sucks.
“A Cueto-Ellsbury swap seems just fine”
Yeah, for the Yankees. Not so much for the other team.
Seriously! Ellsbury sucks! Why would the Giants give up Cueto (an ace who has always relied on deception rather than pure “stuff”) for a 35 year old who will probably never play anywhere close to a full season again? To save a year on the books??? Might as well sign Hunter Pence back for another rodeo. He’d probably suck as badly, but at least he’s beloved in the Bay…
Cueto is the better player and he’d require talent going back + bad contract of Ellsbury.
That said, even I cringed at Andujar getting moved for Longoria. Sure, Andujar is a DH, but the kid can still rake.
ps. How many years until Yankee fans keep saying ROY runner-up? Let it go…he hit well and was a butcher in the field, that is why he didn’t win it.
Considering the season just ended, it is still a fact he was the most recent ROY runner up. He didn’t win it because his competition was a novelty, nothing to do with his fielding.
Andujar and Ellsbury for Longoria and MadBum and you have a deal.
Yankees get MadBum and save $10MM per year for two years in LT dollars.
Longoria becomes a very expensive, but manageable backup 1B/3B and DH.
Who knows? Maybe the Yankees could flip him back to the Rays. Do they have any bad contracts?
The 2019 Giants are going to be really good in 2013.
This is the most underrated comment ever lol
They were better last year with NL MVP Andrew McCutchen.
Yeah, not really.
Well done Lance!
Elsbury for cueto might work
For NY. Eventual upside with Cueto. None with Ellsbury.
Ellsbury + some low level or mid level prospects for Cueto or maybe even Melancon.
Ellsbury, despite all his injury troubles, is still an above average OF. He puts up like 2 WAR in injury riddled seasons. So i wouldnt say that there is no potential upside to adding Ellsbury, especially if your team needs an OF. Ellsbury just needs to get on the field for that upside to be realized.
He’s averaged less than 1.5 fWAR over the last 3 seasons and will turn 36 this season so it’s pretty reasonable to expect some decline even from that modest level of production. He’s probably not entirely useless, but I’m not exactly sure what he offers qualifies as “upside”.
You don’t pay for the value someone someone could be in a trade. That’s what you hope to buy low for. You trade for his current value, unless the market demand drives it past there and some team is dumb.
+BLB25
Listen, I am not saying Ellsbury is an extremely valuable trade chip. Only that there is some potential upside in him, for you can have a slightly above average OF.
+bencole
I would say that if you only traded for current value then you would never see MLB players get swapped for prospects.
That being said, Ellsbury would be there to offset Cuetos salary, and the prospects will be there to get Cueto himself. That way, the Giants get some prospects, a salary cut (what is it, like a +20M difference between Ellsbury and Cueto?), and an average/slightly above average OF. The Yankees get a SP who they hope can bounce back from rough seasons and tommy john.
Sorry – there’s no upside; Ellsbury’s garbage. He might hit five home runs at “Oracle” Park, assuming he’s healthy enough to play 100 games.
Begamin you be dreamn brah. Snuff out that crip.
+Scott
Ellsbury is replacement level when healthy at least. Look at his stats. The knocks against Ellsbury is his health and contract, not his production (in the sense that he is not putting up a negative WAR value. Of course his production doesnt live up to his contract, but when healthy he is a better option than a lot of starting OF, especially on bad teams) Im not saying he is really good. He would literally be in the trade to offset salary, not for his production abilities. But to say that there is no possibility that he puts up a decent season (any production out of Ellsbury would be surplus value for the Giants in a trade where he is only included for salary purposes) is foolish.
+cecil
What about Ellsbury and prospects for Cueto is too unthinkable? Giants would get a pay cut (Cueto has a large salary for 3 years, while Ellsbury 2, so the Giants would be off the hook sooner and could then spend more sooner than later), prospects, and an OF. That is exactly what a team on the decline like the Giants needs. Ellsbury could never play again after the trade is made and the trade still benefits the Giants.
Why would the Yankees send prospects along with Ellsbury to acquire Cueto, who btw is still recovering from TJ and probably not available until after the All-Star break? People are acting as if Cueto doesn’t come with huge question marks. We would be doing the Giants a favor because they save $20 mil + in salary and even if Cueto were to come back in July and perform well the Giants would still have to eat a large part of his salary to facilitate a trade. By NO means am I suggesting that Ells has on-field value. He is best suited on the DL which would allow them to re-coop up to 50% of his salary. But in a bad contract for bad contract swap, Cueto is just as likely to offer relatively minuscule value because of age, injury risk and a velocity that has dropped 5 years in a row and bottomed out at 89 last year.
+south
I do not see Ells for Cueto as a wash. In a one for one trade scenario between with those two players, you have two main forces acting against each other. The first force being that Ellsbury is cheaper than Cueto, the other is that Cueto is more than likely going to be better than Ellsbury. I am not sure if the $21MM is a big enough force to offset the potential production the Cueto provides. If Cueto can consistently throw 3.5 ERA ball, he might just he worth the extra $21MM.
If you think in terms relative value, the Yankees would value Cueto in exchange for Ellsbury much more than the Giants would value Ells in exchange for Cueto. For the Giants, they get $21M of salary relief if they were to swap Cueto for Ells. They would be getting a worse player in return though. The Yankees, on the other hand, would be getting rid of someone clogging up a MLB roster spot for which they have no intention of having play, AND theyd be filling their biggest need in SP, all while Cueto is probably going to return better production than however Ells returns. The Giants obviously know this, and should demand more than a 1for1 trade. There is 2 (+1 potential) positive incentives for the Yankees to make the trade and 1 negative incentive, while the Giants have 1 negative and positive incentive to make the trade. There is another possible negative incentive for the Giants to make that trade though. If Cueto does come back and performs well, the Giants may be able to trade Cueto for prospects and some salary relief. So the only way for the Yankees to convince the Giants to make that trade now rather than later would be to add prospects into the mix. A straight up trade as it stands would be a wash for the Giants initially but possibly a lost trade in the end. The Yankees need to add an incentive for the Giants so the deal can move forward. Remember, the deal has to be beneficial to the Giants, or at least appear that way to the Giants FO.
If the Yankees throw in some lottos now they wont have to throw in better than lottos to get Cueto later (if he performs well). Think about it like buying airplane tickets months in advance. Theyre cheaper because you can guarantee a sale/security.
That being said, I’d rather the Yankees sign Keuchal and be done with it but an Ellsbury for Cueto swap can keep the yearly payroll figure the same for the next two years all the while you fill a need and get rid of a clog.
All contracts are based on the value you could provide. A trade is around the same.
the Yankees would need to pay a lot of Ellsbury’s money in addition to all of Cueto’s to make that close to fair
You are ABSOLUTELY insane. Who know’s what Cueto will be coming off of TJ surgery at age 33?. You guys act as if it’s a given that he’ll return to front of rotation status.
The idea that the Yanks would have to eat a “lot” of Ellsbury’s salary AND most of all of Cueto’s $71 mil covering his 33-36 coupled with the fact his velocity has dropped every year since 2014 falling to 89 mph last year. ZERO chance anyone eats any of Cueto’s contract in a trade.
If anything, the salaries offset each other OR the Giants attach a prospect in return and I doubt fans would think that’s a smart thing to do.
So a scenario where a team would trade a player and pay there entire $48 mil salary and then acquire a player and pay all of their $71 mil salary makes sense to 2 ppl who down voted my post. Wonderful.
And I don’t really care about votes but I’m figuring they have to be either Giants fans or Yankee haters.
Agreed. We have no need to do anything insurance is paying 80% of ellsbury salary.
Why add cueto and incur any additional cost
No interest in any giant trash.
No belt
No samarzidja
Keep ellsbury
You’re hardly convincing that Ellsbury/contract is greater or equal to Cueto’s. If that trade ever happened it would almost certainly include something else from the Yankees.
1. Cueto’s younger, not as bad, not as hurt.
2. Ellsbury is still owed more
3. Other teams would want Cueto depending on what Giants would give in his contract. Nobody wants Ellsbury.
2. Ellsbury is owed about 64M total, Cueto 84M total.
3. You dont have to want Ellsbury. If the Giants would rather have the pay cut enough then Ellsbury is a byproduct where the salary is more important. Ellsbury in a trade would be more of a necessary evil rather than the thing that was sought after.
What alternate reality are you living in?
Contract- Ells is owed $48 mil ($42 mil + $5 mil buyout). Cueto is owed $71 mil ($66 mil + $5 mil buyout).
Health- Yes Ells is injury prone and can’t stay on the field. He had surgery last year and is rehabbing. Cueto had TJ surgery and is like out until August and who knows how he will recover at age 34.
Not a single team is going to trade for Cueto until he returns from rehab and shows he can pitch at a high level and even then, I would have to imagine that the Giants would still have to eat a large part of his contract.
Look simply say you’re not interested in Ells and I would completely understand. Shoot…Yankee fans don’t want him either. But to argue Cueto is a BETTER risk option going forward is assuming the best case scenario for a pitcher with his age and a FB whose velocity is inching closer to his change up velocity doesn’t install confidence.
You keep making a big deal about Cuetos velocity decrease but he’s not a guy that relies on it. Last year was the first time his k/9 took a noticeable dip and he has put up a 118 era+ 3.45 ERA 3.65 FIP and 40-28 record and 632 innings in those 4 years including the injury shortened season last year.
lol nice jbs32.
Cueto might actually be 44…
+myself
I got the figures for Ellsbury and Cueto wrong. When looking on spotrac I think there might be a team option for both players for another year and I factored that into the total. Just remove 21MM from both players’ total
This comment section isn’t the best moment for Yank fans. Try and think of both sides of a deal
Interesting, But there are other options still think a Shark and Melancon pakage deal should happen
In the sense that I’ve “talked about” sticking a fork in my eye?
omg, lmao Erub
surely its based around samardzija, Cueto has wayyyy too much value left once he recovers from TJ.
Nobody knows what his value is going to be once he recovers. Who knows if he will be the same? From San Francisco’s point of view, why not trade him for a player (Ellsbury) who is owed $20 million less and is available this season
Because that player is bad?
You answered your own question. Who knows his value? A hip injury along with all his other historical injuries prove he is probably DL bound. Why would they trade anyone of value for that? Because it’s the Yankees? LOL Yankee fans are hysterical.
But trading for a 33 yo who is owed $71 mil with declining velocity coming off of TJ surgery is a GOOD move? I mean, did we not just witness teams are resetting their thinking and shying away from big contracts for players north of 32? If Happ (36 with relatively good health and performance), Charlie Morton (35 coming off of 2 good back to back seasons) couldn’t get more than 2 or 3 year deals at about $15-$18 mil then why would anyone think Cueto’s 3/$71 is a good deal? I mean Keuchel who is 2 years younger and a better health history is struggling to get a deal in the 5/$100 range then Cueto would certainly NOT get anywhere near 3 x $22 mil in this current market.
The more I think of it the Yanks would be insane to make a 2/$48 mil for 3/$71 mil straight up deal and the Giants would be idiots not to. Even if Cueto were ready to start does anyone expect his value to be worth $22 mil annually over the next 2 seasons? Meanwhile, the longer Ells sits on the DL the more money they get from insurance which might be better than trading for top dollar with low performance.
I’m sure it wouldn’t be a straight-up deal but as someone who is tired of Ellsbury clogging the outfield (hello Harper) I’m more than willing to trade him for another bum player
Now we see your real motive
You’re an idiot
What do you care it’s not your money
Go root for the harpers
+Randia
By saying “what do you care it’s not your money” you might as well be saying “what do you care if they win/lose its not your team!”
They care because when your favorite team incurs bad contracts/becomes financially strapped you are then left with a worse product to enjoy. Giants are literally plagued with bad contracts to the point where they arent going to contend for a decent amount of time.
You might be the idiot. You detest conversations that scratch the surface of the business that is baseball. Is it too complicated for your lil bwain?
He’s a former ace who has always been more about deception than speed. I believe he’ll return to for for a few years if healthy.
If Cueto doesn’t perform the Yankees can also collect insurance. The Giants are taking the bigger risk of trading for an OF’er who has hip issues, hasn’t played in two years, and going to a team that doesn’t have a DH spot. Where in Cueto you’re getting a pitcher who is recovering from TJ (as many others have) he can be thrown into the rotation or be used as a long reliever. I understand your point on money but its an even trade of bad contracts and most importantly it doesn’t affect the luxury tax. Furthermore, no one expects Cueto to perform at the level of a $22mm player, but at the same time if you keep Ells do you expect him to perform at the value the Yankees are paying him. If you say ‘Yes’ then you’re insane and the reason why Yankee fans are hated.
There’s a misunderstanding of how insurance works. I ask MLBTR to cover this.
From what I understand, insurance policies are NOT given out for the life of a contract. The team has to secure an insurance policy and the issuing agency usually hands out policies in 3 year intervals. So if a player has a 10 year deal then likely the team would have to seek coverage multiple times dependant on how the insureres risk evaluation dictates the measure length they are willing to cover. So you can’t assume that Cueot’s contact is covered in full for the length of the deal.
Ex. If his coverage was for 3 years then that means whatever team he’s under contract with has to apply for a new policy on the remaining years of the contract (I think it’s usually 10% of the aav). So OBVIOUSLY insurance for Cueto will be a lot higher now (if his coverage expires at some point over the remaining years) than it was when he first signed the contract and was at 100% health. There’s no such thing as universal coverage for all players under contract.
Also, if you have Ells contract you almost WISH he stays on the DL because insurance will cover part of his salary. If either Ells or Cueto return to health and SUCK then the team has to continue to pay him.
If I’m the Yanks I would just stick with Ells. The risk vs reward on Cueto isn’t as desirable as some of you suggest and you’re thinking with emotion rather than how that side of the business really works.
Bounce back
Do you think the Yankees would trade Ellesbury straight up for hotdogs for when they visit SF 4/26-28?
Two Cha-Cha Bowls and a Garlic Fry to be named later.
That seems legit. I would do it before the Cha-Cha gets cold.
If I am the Yankees, I at least need some crazy crab sandos and a few $15 craft beers thrown in to get it done.
Unfortunately it sounds like Giants are doomed to repeat the mistakes of previous leadership. Just as trading for Longoria & Cutch proved to be a mistake, now going for Ellsbury may be even more foolish!
Cutch turned out good because they traded for better prospects with the Yankees than they sent to the Pirates. In the meantime, SF fans had to deal with a meh team.
Kyle Crick Pocher to a 2.39 ERA in over 60 games for the Buccos and Reynolds had an OPS over .800 in AA last year. I’d hardly say they upgraded at prospects
Kyle crick isn’t a prospect. He’s been on several major league rosters and was in the giants system forever.
He’s been on two major league rosters… and he’s probably better than either of the players the Giants received anyways.
Dodgethis: You obviously have no idea who Kyle Crick is, he was always only a Giant until they made the ridiculous decision to trade for Cutch giving away a great young arm that had finally figured it out but still young. They also gave up a OF prospect that can easily be a starter and at worst a good 4th OFer one day. The “prospect” they got back from the yanks was a yanks castaway they had little hope for.
This isnt the Giants trading “for” anything. This is the Giants swapping bigger bad deals out for smaller ones to free up cash down the line.
Don’t worry Giants fans the report is from Buster Olney. We should all be relieved.
Like on purpose?
Well hey, I bet the Cardinals would flip you Fowler for a bad contract. He has been better than Ellsbury and can switch hit. I would swap for Melancon. Wasn’t Maddox his pitching coach in Washington for a bit?
Cardinals fans HATE Cueto from his days with the Reds and his part in a big brawl. No way would St. Louis deal for him. Fowler for Samardzija might work though.
Yeah, I bet you would. Cardinals dump a $50M commitment in Fowler for a $28M commitment in Melancon. No upside for the Giants there.
The more I think about it. I like this trade
NO, NO, NO !!
Let the kids play, then we can see if they are real major league talent or not. They need to give them at least 300 hundred at bats or more to see what they can do.
Guess you don’t understand how salary dump trades work.
This is NOT about trading for Ellsbury. The Giants could trade for him and hide him on the bench or DFA him or pray he actually has something left. This is all about moving money. Relax.
Talking baseball: I would say a minimum of 450 ABs for Slater, Williamson and even more for Duggar. Let them have that shot, better than bringing in junk. Would be another story if there was a OFer available with any real skill besides Harper. Give the kids a real shot.
If this gets rid of Cuetos contract. Why not? 2 bad contract years is better than 3. How does this not make sense to people? It’s a salary dump. And it’s just “been discussed”. I guess some people can’t read either. Over here acting like it already happened.
Because Cueto has consistently put up a sub 3 ERA and has been healthier than Ellsbury, and if the giants aren’t wanting to contend for a while, then what does that 20M do them? Cueto can be traded for prospects if he bounces back from injury next year.
He had a 4,52 ERA in 2017, probably won’t pitch until after the all-star break and will be 33? For the Giants I feel like having an extra $20 mil to spend one year is kind of a big deal. You are acting as if 33 yo SP recover from TJ surgery the same way a 21 yo prospect does.
In 2017 he put up a 4.52 ERA, in 2016 a 3.44.
Now, his 2017 decline may be attributed to injuries, and in 2016 a 3.44 is nothing to scoff at. However, I wouldnt claim he is still throwing sub 3 consistently, given 2018 numbers are so small, in 2017 he didnt post sub 4, and he is coming off of TJ.
Bengamin: Cueto was 18-5 with a 2.77 era in 2016. 2017 he wasn’t as sharp, but still better than half the starting pitchers in the league, 2018 he was starting off amazing before his elbow gave up. Cueto doesn’t rely on power or speed to pitch, so as long as he comes back healthy there is no reason to think he won’t be able to produce solid season til the end of his contract.
My mistake, I meant 2015, not 2016.
My point anyway was that he just wasnt posting consistent sub 3 like he was claimed to have done. Im on the fence about whether or not he should still perform well when he comes back. His age is getting up there an TJ does you no favors.
Getting often injured Vets is not a smart play but im not complaining as a SD fan. A guy like Wil Myers hits well in that ballpark and makes sense in SF but same division trades are not smart and rarely happen. Were still paying Jedd Gyorko to tee off against our pitchers a couple of games a year. Weird how SF is so thin at outfield.
You’re not smart!
Don’t do this!!! I’m still not over Aaron Rowand!
Well played
The Yanks are looking for another starter and would love to find Ellsbury another home, so I love this idea of Ceuto or Smar.
Do both need a haircut or just Ceuto?
Ya never know if CC will last 2 innings, he still eats boxes of Captain Crunch! God Bless him.
oops EDIT CUETO
Ellsbury and Frazier for Brandon Belt? Probably add some prospects going whatever way, but that would make sense for both teams
I don’t like that deal from the Yanks perspective. If you wish to do a deal for Belt and a middling prospect then ok. But as of now, assuming the Yanks don’t sign Harper or make a major trade, Frazier is likely our starting LF for 2019, or at least as a platoon partner with Gardner. If Gardner was a righty then maybe that would make more sense. We actually need a LF bat but Belts offensive upside is probably on par with what Frazier can do if healthy imo. Belt is owed slightly more and has 1 extra year before he’s off the books. That trade favors SF too much, and I acknowledge that Ellsbury is an obvious question mark. I assume the Giants wouldn’t go fwd unless they had some significant reason to think he would be available to play. As much as it would make sense to trade for a Smardjza or Cueto for Elssbury I just don’t see enough upside for either party to make it worthwhile.
Ellsbury might have the most negative trade value of anyone in MLB besides Heyward. (OK, I’m sure you guys can come up with a couple more examples) So this trade, not including Ellsbury, in the pieces going back and forth, the Yankees would have to lose the rest of the deal HUGE. HUGE. So keep that in mind as you make trade proposals. The Giants don’t “want” Ellsbury. They want him as much as you want herpes. They would “take” Ellsbury if they win the rest of the trade by enough to make it worth it.
I don’t get your energy. Let’s first all agree that, if this rumor is true, that we have no idea which side initiated and has that higher will to get it done.
But consider these points.
-Ellsbury’s value is non-existent since he hasn’t been able to play. However, as long as he is on the DL the insurance offsets a huge chunk of his contract and the Yanks actually save money.
-In comparison, some of the negative contracts on the Giants side are actually playing meaning that not only do they get a 25 man roster spot but they get 100% of the money too.
Ellsbury is owed less than a few of the suggested players SF might be inclined to move. Cueto ($68) and Longoria ($62) both are owed more money and more years. If these guys were discussed then the Giants would have to give up something in terms of prospects or an additional player to make this happen.. Why? They are saving millions of dollars for declining players who are severely overpaid with high risk levels. No one knows how Cueto will be coming back. No reasons to expect him to pitch 150 innings and no idea how his stuff will translate to the AL. Longoria’s OBP has consistently dropped over the last 5 years aside from a slight uptick (.70) from 2016-2017.
If it’s Melancon, Samarzdija or Belt then the Yanks would likely to have to send something else towards SF since those guys are likely to be able to perform in 2019. Frazier should be off the table for this type of deal. He shouldn’t be used to move Ells contract especially since most of his money is covered as long as he’s on the DL.
A lot to consider. I’m doubtful it happens. Ells can also veto the trade.
What a silly comment. Elsbury has two years left and he is the worst contract in baseball? Dam I can name a dozen worse!
Insurance contracts are for the insured, and are almost unilaterally non-transferrable. An acquiring club would not get the insurance payout for injury. The trade value to the Giants is not altered by the Yankees insurance money. Ellsbury is not good. He’s guarenteed $21.2+ million per year for the next two years plus a $5 million buyout on his $21 million club option for 2021.
Belt has averaged 3.5 WAR over the last 4 seasons, is only 30, and plays a position that declining players can stay at. He makes $16 million a year for 3 years, which means he doesn’t really have negative trade value.
Ellsbury is going into his age 36 season, his game is almost entirely based around speed, which declines faster than any other skill, in his case it already has, and he would be going into the largest OF in baseball for the next two years. And he can’t stay on the field.
There is no way the Yankees don’t have to lose the rest of that trade HUGE.
False the Yankees pay Only 6 million of the rest of ellsbury contract. That’s why there is no rush to move him
Belt is paid 3 times that
Keep ellsbury
Insurance policies are able to travel with the player. The policy is taken out by the team and usually run in 3 year intervals. So if the Yanks had Ells under a 3 year policy signed in 2017 then the policy would cover 2017, 18 and 19 if traded.
The Yanks could just hold on to Ells and try their best to keep him on the DL. They can get at least 50% covered by insurance.
There are other reasons to pass on Belt. Frazier is a better compliment to Gardner because he’s a righty where as Belt is a lefty. I’m not asserting Frazier is better than Belt but he might be more productive if he can stay and healthy and fill his promise whereas Belt is in his declining years AND earning a lot. Smart move might be to keep Ells on the DL and give Frazier a chance in 2019.
Yes, that makes sense. What a shock finding it here in the comments!
I would much rather have the Ellsbury contract where the Yanks got insurance money than the Fowler or Heyward contracts where they are just playing poorly.
So here’s a guy with concussions and one with a bad hip, and a bunch of other issues, neither played in 2018, for a guy that had a 2.7 WAR in 2018. That would make no sense. Belt is at least somewhat productive. His contract, while a year longer than Ells, is over $4 mil less, and Jacoby’s 2021 is a $5 mil buyout. That;s really a wash money wise. You guys are hysterical.
No you are insurance is paying all but 6 million of Woodbury contract.
So want no part of belt
Not going to happen
Ellsbury is a perfect fit for the Giants who seem to continue to build for a WS run in 2014.
PS
Can anyone just imagine that pitching staff
if CUETO gets back to himself.
I spelled his last wrong in 1 post to balance out the fact that I spelled it correct in another.
Ellsbury and Florial for Longoria and I might be ok with it
Why in the world would the Yanks want Longoria?
aha
hahaha
hahahahaha
florial is far too valuable for 2019 longo.
Giants owners are greedy cowards for not going after Machado, Harper and Kimbel. Not even trying anymore.
Giants sign all three, blow through the luxury tax, and finish 3rd in the division at best. Those moves would be the same poorly thought out moves that have them where they are now.
Why would you go after one of the top free agents when they are in a rebuild? Ya they’re saying they aren’t rebuilding but let’s face it, last time they did a rebuild it brought 3 championships. And what player that’s about to hit their prime at 26 years old would want to go to a team that’s heading towards a 3 to 4 year rebuild? And there’s also no real need for Kimbrel, the bullpen isn’t even the Giants biggest issue.
Don’t see Cueto as the one who would go for Ellsbury, not straight up anyway. I can see Shark going as the Giants have enough good arms to take that hit and move 1 bad contract for another and let Ellsbury platoon in CF and LF and mentor Duggar. I certainly would not send anyone useful to NY unless they were sending a tantalizing prospect back with Ellsbury.
Giants are going into a rebuild which is what they should’ve done a year ago. That team is much more then a Harper or Machado away from being a WS contender again. They’ve finally accepted that a rebuild is inevitable. If you’re upset about this just wait till they cash in MadBum in July for a package of prospects.
Why would the Giants do this is the question? Even trading away bad contracts makes no sense unless more is going to NYY. Unless its a starter going to NYY for a top prospect and eldsbury? My guess this is Olney is making up a story because he is bored.
They’re checking in on everyone
Brandon Belt would be a better fit for Yankees. SF can take Bird & Ellsbury
Aaron Judge would be a better fit for the Giants. Yankees can take Melancon and Samardzija.
Belt is on a :/48. He’s on an overmarket deal but it’s not egregious. He’s tradeable
Without taking significant bad money back. No shot for ells
Not even a good analogy
“it seems much likelier that Cueto will end up returning something close to the value of his remaining earnings”, really????
More likely than Ellsbury, was the point of that sentence. So, yes really.
H needs to prove he is healthy first. This would be the dumbest deal ever.
Wow. I thought the Giants were looking for an outfielder, not a DL designee.
Are the Giants really trying to get rid of bad contracts by replacing them with worse contracts? I thought the plan was to get younger? I guess Zaidi has moved on from the dollar store to the antique shop.
Best line of the day!!!
Elsbury two years for Cuetos 3 is as good as it gets for you San Fran! If Yanks request San Fran eat money then Yanks send middling prospects with Elsbury! Otherwise this ain’t happening. Yanks don’t want that awful Longoria contract.
Only way I’d be fine with the Giants doing this is if the Yankees take Longo. I think Cueto still has potential to be ok. Elsbury is worse then worthless as he could take at bats away from the Giants’ younger outfielders.
At least with Longo they’d have a guy who can play a decent 3B.
Yeah and that oh so attractive .289 OBP. He has nose dived and would struggle to get $8 mil a year if he were a FA. I would rather see what Andujar can do with more time. Steinbrenner in the 80s might have made that trade tho.
Please do it.
The money that SF waste is truly unbelievable. Hard to wrap your head around
If im the Yankees…id certainly swap Cueto for Ellsbury..and since Cueto has more term and $$…. a sweetener would be nice…
(Madbum at a discount in July sound fair?)
Plus..i can see Cueto bouncing back before i see it from Jacoby. If im Cashman…bye bye Ellsbury
The problem with this comment is you are serious! smh
Cueto has significantly more value than Ellsbury.
It seems like they’re collecting bad contracts, Ellsbury would fit in perfect.
Why?
Doesn’t Ellsbury have a full no trade clause?
i feel like if it samardzija or melancon moving it makes sense because they can both help the Yankees but are injured a lot and overpaid, same as Ellsbury. they don’t have a reason to move cueto since he can come back as early as the end of the year and until his elbow went performed well.
This would work well for the Yankees (as long as the money is right…it’s hard to tell what that means concretely, without knowing exactly how well the two contracts are insured). Presumably, that would reduce their payroll by a few million, allowing them all the more flexibility on Machado/Harper/trade deadline deals (I don’t believe for a second that their goal is to get under the luxury tax). More importantly, they would be acquiring someone who doesn’t take on a roster spot. They need that roster spot for Clint Frazier.
It would work for the Giants too, since the luxury tax is not a concern for them: they could add a few mill, this year, and get rid of most of Cueto’s 2021 salary in return.
Of course, the Yankees would have no interest in actually playing Cueto. In 2019, for obvious reasons (they will be in a race for the AL East, they can’t give away games by starting a guy who hasn’t been effective since 2016, and, after the season Sale, Cole, MadBum, Verlander are all free agents. The Yankees have four starters for 2020, already. The fifth one will presumably be one of those free agents. Which is fine: they can just move Cueto, either in August (when a borderline contender might want to make that kind of long shot bet), or next winter.
And I suspect the same is true for the Giants and Ellsbury: I doubt they’d be acquiring him under the assumption that he could help them. It would be a financial move, not a baseball one.
My question is are Yankee fan s really this ignorant that they don’t know that insurance is paying 80% of ellsburys contract??
Those two make a lot more sense than Cueto does. Cueto won’t even pitch until after the all-star break and who knows how his rehab will go for a 33 yo recovering pitcher.
This wouldn’t make any sense for Giants.. They have no chance at competing this year, so why take one of the worst contracts in baseball? Just let Shaw and Mac take LF and RF. Give them 500 ABs to see what they can do.
My guess is that neither team would do it there wasn’t some benefit beyond what each perspective player does on the field. Either they’re saving money or getting some smaller piece in the deal.. I don’t see it as of now but haven’t put too much thought into it. Maybe they would trade a player with similar total salary but has a 3 year as opposed to the 2 years left with Ells? Money off the books quicker? But I don’t think the Giants would trade for Ells and take away time from a well thought of OF prospect.
How is it not obvious why this would make sense for the Giants? Cueto is owed $22M more than Ellsbury.
Of course, it’s unlikely that they could pull off a straight up trade, but they might be able to buy some prospects off NY in the transaction.
That way, the Yankees would be shedding 2019 and 2020 payroll, which is a good idea for them (because a. Machado might become available on a high AAV, short deal, and the Yankees would want to give him that money without exceeding $246M payroll, and b. next winter, there are all kinds of star free agents the Yankees will be very interested in…way more interested than they were in any top free agents this winter).
Meanwhile, the Giants would be buying prospects without giving up value, and shedding some of Cueto’s 2021 salary.
To answer the “why”? the $’s are all guaranteed and sunk, however there are rosters spots and roster fits to consider.
Giants have a greater need in the OF, possibly in CF to start the year as Duggar is recovering from a separated shoulder. Both Shark and Melancon are also on 2yr deals like Ellsbury however for lesser CBT $ which could appeal the NYY who until Machado and/or Harper sign aren’t really “out” are they?
At the same juncture Belt has similar $’s to Ellsbury but over 3yrs so a CBT win for the Yankees but Belt also has WAY more present value than Ellsbury so him + whom else, Frazier and ….?
I am suspect that it’s Cueto, no CBT win, no 2019 on field value + TJ recovery risk with an extra yr @ $22M. The NYY are in a NOW mode.
Not getting Frazier. Yanks are not attaching a high end prospect for a Brandon Belt! Cmon with these awful trade suggestions. I can see Elsbury and a few fringe prospects for Belt but Belt has no position and so it makes zero sense. Cueto is out the entire season and Elsbury is taking up an outfield spot from Frazier so it makes sense for the Yanks and it only makes sense for San Fran if it’s a straight trade where Yanks take all of Cuetos money and Elsbury is healthy.
Belt has a position. It’s 1B. Same place the Yankees would play him.
Nahhh we have first covered.
Yanks want to see what Voit can do and if there’s at all a possibility they can get 25 hrs and a decent BA/OBP for 5 controllable years then it would make sense and allow them to save money and spend elsewhere.
Belt was rated the best defensive 1B last year. “Belt has no position”
I rather take my chances on Bird!
But I’ll play, here’s my counter:
Elsbury and Bird for Cueto and Belt plus a top 5 San Fran prospect! That’s a counter to the ridiculous San Fran proposals on here.
This is a contract trade, not a talent trade and the only name involved so far is Ellsbury.
Roster resource has the Yanks at $217MM with $206MM, $226MM, and $246MM the 3 luxury thresholds. rosterresource.com/mlb-new-york-yankees-info/ They won’t go over $246MM but IF the NYY want to get back in on the falling market for Machado or Harper and need the room a little more cushion….
Maybe the NYY just want a better roster fit then Ellsbury gives them. If at the same time if they can create some CBT room for the next 2 years, now is the time and Ellsbury is the contract. On the flip side, if healthy can Ellsbury even hold a roster spot or would he then become an instant DFA candidate? I mean isn’t NYY worst nightmare a healthy non-performing Ellsbury?
So the Giants present express interest in Ellsbury maybe getting him off their roster and helping their CBT situation. Depending on the player/contract going to the NYY will determine what level of prospect the NYY would need to attach. That’s the prize for the SFG for taking on Ellsbury else why?
Tyler beede & Andrew Suarez to Toronto for Kevin Pillar. Seems to help both sides, jays get pitching depth and clears space for one of the younger guys to make a splash in the bigs and the giants get an excellent defender who can excel in the huge cf of at&t park
Stop pushing this scenario plz. Giants don’t want any part of Pillar and especially not if Suarez is involved. But take Beede if you want, he has absolutely nothing in him.
tbh i think beede ought to be converted to a closer/late inning reliever. the guy has stuff but lacks control and that becomes apparent in a long look. it sucks when you hope your guy can be a starter but you have to play to his strength
If the giants get pillar they’ll win 75 games instead of 73…..I don’t think The giants should be giving up any young assets to make their 2019 team better.
Why would the Giants trade Suarez for Pillar?
The only way this trade was discussed , was if both sides had too much bourbon and they started trying to top each other by coming up with ludicrous/ridiculous deals.while howling with laughter.
I’d rather have cueto ifnthe money was equal but SF’s OF is a complete joke and they have plenty of SP candidates. I guess that’s why the tires are getting kicked on this one
Yikes. Somebody mentioned this in another thread, and I thought it was a horrible joke. Guess not.
Loved watching Ellsbury in Boston, would be pleased to see him out of New York and on to a fresh start.
WOW! I had no idea the Giants had THAT much bad money on their books. I was worried about Heyward being on the Cubs books, but at least he provides value… not the 5/100 value still left on his deal, but at least not a waste. Every mid/major market team has at least some bad money I suppose, I just didn’t realize SF had that damn much.
Cueto is better than Heyward lol
Hell no!
I think Crawford’s deal is worse than Belt’s personally. There’s not much of a market for SS as we saw with the M’s highly productive Segura. I think they’d find a suitor for belts cash long before they’d find someone interested in Crawford.
I disagree. There’s still multiple free agent 1B available for much cheaper than Belt. The DBacks got a *light* return for Goldschmidt, who’s the best 1B in baseball with just a $14MM salary. To expect SF to get anything of real value for Belt without them paying a large portion of his salary is a big stretch
The dbacks got 2 better or equally as good prospects as the M’s got for Segura and they also had to take bad money back to make that’s happen. Who needs a SS right now? Dodgers? No.’yankees? No. Red Sox? No. You can up and down every contenders list and they don’t need a SS. Definitely not a guy like Crawford for that price. They aren’t getting a solid return for either one of them I didn’t claim that they would but I think Belt has a much broader market. And I think there’s more power in Belts bat than he’s showed at AT&T.
Crawford is exactly the same player he was three years ago. He’s an exceptional fielder and a mediocre hitter with some pop. He’s not a problem at all and is a fan favorite. He also has a no-trade clause so comparing contracts is silly. He can’t be traded anyway.
None of these deals are a problem for SF. You’re going to suck the next few years but you have plenty of money to cover them. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be nice to move them.
Cueto for Ellsbury is a terrible idea for the Giants. Cueto will likely be excellent next year. Maybe Ellsbury for Shark and Melancon.
Cueto isn’t realistically expected to pitch at all next season. Ellsbury costs $20 million less so if Zaidi wants to spend on free agents then this would be a good way to get a little dough
Cueto wasn’t exactly excellent last time you saw him. His ERA looked alright but he averaged less than 6 IP per start and posted a 4.75 FIP. Ells offers nothing but I don’t think anyone should be expecting Cueto to be very good
i once believed an ellsbury trade would happen, until olney reported it
This comment will get downvoted in seconds but as a Yankees fan, I’d take Belt’s contract over Ellsbury’s in a heartbeat. Belt’s got some pop that would play up in Yankee Stadium and it would help offset the righty-heavy lineup.
Why wouldn’t you? Who wouldn’t? It’s the same money for a player that can actually play. So bold.
The trade that makes sense is Ellsbury for Samardzija. SF needs an OF, NY can use rotation depth. Money is similar. Neither player is good.
If Giants are willing to weigh Ellsbury, they could probably “pry” Rusney Castillo from Red Sox.
Certainly isn’t as much a fantasy as some of these swaps many folks here have posted.
I think Samardzija makes more sense as a return than Cueto, unless the Yanks throw in some other prospects and/or take on a larger portion of the money owed
What makes sense to me is Longoria for Ellsbury. It’s basically bad contract for another bad contract. The difference is that each team gets that player to solve an area of need by giving up a player that they have a replacement for. Giants need an outfielder, Yankees could use a better 3B man (Andujar could be traded or used at 1B/DH to hide his defensive liability). Both franchises would love to see each of these guys leave town.
The Yankees would love to see Andujar “leave town”? Don’t know where you got that but… ehhh, NO!! Why would they trade a second year player for an over-the-hill and fading fast 3B with years left at many millions on his deal when Andujar is controllable for FIVE more, reasonable cost seasons?
Sure, Giants are desperate for youth but Longoria for Andujar is laughable from NYY’a point of view. The only desperate team in this proposed scenario is SF.
Reading comprehension appears to an issue here. He said “Longoria for Ellsbury” Geez… drinking and typing don’t mix.
Yea the Giants fan was clearly referring to Longoria. But frankly the idea he came up with makes no sense. We’re better off holding out to see if Andujar can improve his defense than taking on Longoria’s extra years.
@yankees – I agree. It’s in the yankees best interest to hold onto Andujar. With that said, Bleeding Orange never said that the trade should be Longoria for Andujar. Longoria for Ellsbury with some throw ins to make things work might be ok for both sides. I think Shamardza (sp?) for Ellsbury makes more sense but that is just a quick gut reaction without a lot of research.
I never suggested that he said the trade should be Longoria for Andujar. I was making the point that Longoria isn’t enough of an upgrade to justify the additional cost and length of his deal. We’re better off hoping Andujar’s defense improves.
Olney must be losing it. Cueto for Ellsbury is idiocy.
Cueto has more comeback potential but also comes with an additional year at $20MM+.
First off, when I saw this pop up as a phone notification I rolled my eyes. Again, the dreaded Yankees fans are going to be over-evaluating a completely done player and asking for the moon in return on my team’s post.
I certainly hope it’s not for Cueto straight up. Cueto was having a good season last year until he went down. He’ll come back fine and I’m assuming insurance pays for the time he’s out. There is no reason to trade him for Mr. Useless. Cueto can take the whole year off for all the Giants care. They aren’t going anywhere this year anyway and he should be covered financially.
However, take Melancon and Shark off our hands and you got a deal. Both those guys at least have upside.
Cueto sucked eggs in the AL with KC a few years ago. ABSOLUTELY no way are Yanks taking back THREE years of broken Cueto for TWO years of Ellsbuty.
FYI: YOU DON’T KNOW if Cueto will be “fine.” Some pitchers just don’t come back from TJ surgery. Tell ya what, you keep your useless loser and Yanks will keep theirs. At least Ells is outta NY after 2020, while Giants still have to suffer through one more year of Cueto.
Sounds good to me. As I mentioned above, I don’t want to trade Cueto for Mr. Useless.
FYI: YOU DON”T KNOW if Ellsbuty is going to play either. And by the way, if he does play is he going to be worth a roster spot?
Look back at my comment more carefully: I never said Ellsbury is going to play. He’s not worth a valuable roster spot. Another season of multiple injuries seems to be in the cards for Ells. That way, insurance picks up 80% of the cost of his contract.
The only place Cueto can pitch is over in that other league, anyway. He’d be nothing but a BP pitcher in the AL. If he can still win in the NL, really doesn’t say much about the caliber of competition over there.
Ellsbury, Bird, and Frazier for Belt and lower level prospect Yanks get a useful player who could play both LF and 1B. I think it’s a good deal for both teams.
Please pass whatever you are smoking! Wow, and Yankee fans are called greedy. Bird, Frazier for Belt – in what universe is that a good deal for both teams. Maybe we dig up Babe Ruth and send him to SF as well? Best post of 2019 by far kenlyo
Uhhhggggg Belt blows.
Buster Olney? More like Buster Trollney!
One man’s trash..
why bother with ellsbury when you can just ask for calhoun?
Before I get all the dislikes from yankee haters think about this deal that works for both teams
SF acquires Clint Frazier, Jacoby Ellsbury, Greg Bird & 3 mid level prospects
NYY acquires Madison Bumgarner & Brandon Belt
SF gets OF help with frazier, Ellsbury provides veteran leadership to younger players. Bird replaces belt at much cheaper cost in hopes he thrives in San Francisco
NYY adds another LHP that is postseason proven at very good price. Belt provides the Yankees a more reliable 1B than Voit or bird and adds a much needed LH hitter.
Then the Yankees can sign Harper to a 5 year deal for about 35 million with a 3 year Option after the first 5 and another 2 year option after the 3 year option if the team and Harper agree too.
Ok the Harper thing is a fantasy but a man can dream right ?
Hahahaha so we deal away Frazier and 3 more prospects for MadBum whose hurt and will be a free agent plus now we have Belt who is a notch down from Bird who you also acquired!
Lmao. Anyone else you want in this deal? Judge? Torres?
You have to give to get , your getting rid of Ellsbury’s terrible contract for belts and madbums on top of that opening up a potential spot for Harper to play LF. Now if the Yankees were to sign Harper would they call LA for a potential trade regarding Stanton ?
This trade would be a wish list for the Yankees… there’s no way SF would do this.
I’m a Yanks fan……Belt is a notch DOWN from Bird? I’m no fan of Belt but Bird has yet to prove himself at all. I still like him but that comment isn’t correct.
Have you looked at belts career and his age to say you wouldn’t agree Bird ceiling is much higher albeit the injuries he is the player the Yanks go forward with and not Belt!
If I’m dealing Elsbury and Bird and getting Cueto and Belt there’s no way in hell I think the Yanks won that deal.
Belt is older and regressing. Cueto is out the entire season. Plus we took on a ton of more money in this deal! This is awful for the Yanks and will never happen. Belt straight up for Elsbury also is not good because we have no position for Belt if Bird and Voit platoon at first.
I’d say the trade is a bigger fantasy. MadBum doesn’t have a ton of value but Frazier has very little with the concussion problem and Bird about the same. Belt has averaged 3.5 WAR over the last 4 seasons, and MadBum still has a chance to be a good and has some value, although not elite prospect type value. The problem is the Yankees really aren’t giving up anything of value here. I guess the other problem is that MadBum means far more to the Giants and their fans then he does to anyone else. They certainly aren’t giving him up for a bunch of spare parts, especially for that. They’d be better off waiting until the deadline and hoping he has a good first half and his mojo returns.
Mad Bum is a legend especially in SF but the organization would benefit more by trading him rather than holding on to him and he potentially signs somewhere else or bounces back with a bad team and waste his remaining years in SF
Yes. But not for this.
Who would offer more ? The Yankees are in a more desperate position to get rid of Ellsbury who is taking up a roster spot if I’m the Yankees I would do this in a heartbeat
Ells is likely to spend more time on the 60 day DL vs the field. They can collect insurance and wait out the rest of his deal. I don’t a roster spot is as big of a concern than you think. I would say the Giants should be as motivated to move Cueto too.
Get real pal.
Ellsbury for Melancon?
Closest thing I’ve heard yet
Melancon may not be the closer the Gianys expected but he at least is healthy and can pitch to a few batters maybe making him somewhat desirable at the trade deadline, Ellsbury is shot.
The only trade that makes any sense is Ellsbury and a low end prospect for Samardzija. While Samardzija isn’t very good he has overall been healthy.
The Giants are in the same position that the Tigers were in a few years ago, they have a bunch of old stars on a bad team that nobody wants. Even Mad Bum has some questions. They waited to long to move their players.
Unlike the tigers the giants made win now moves as early as last season. Also unlike the tigers they should return to their 200 million spending ways again once all this bad money is off the books. They’re going to have press restart and suck for the next 3-4 years and try again. They’re a big market club which is the only reason I’m giving them a chance in 3 years because this a bare bones farm.
A platoon at 1B of Belt and Voit would provide some serious pop. Belt gets to leave a park that kills LH power for one that caters to it. The Yankees would be wise to do that trade that was mentioned above (Belt and Cueto for Ellersby and Bird) because I don’t think Bird is ever going to be more than a guy who hits for low BA and the occasional HR.
The biggest thing for the Yankees here is if they expect Ellsbury to be healthy this year, meaning he takes up a roster spot. Cueto is unlikely to play at all in 2019, so he won’t have to take up a roster spot. Then he essentially replaces CC as the 5th starter in 2020 (I admit it is a lot of money for a 5th starter, but he could perform much better than most other 5th starters). I’d be ok with the Yankees throwing in a low level prospect as well, but whether the Giants would be ok with it remains to be seen.
He’s not old enough for them to be interested.
Do it Giants. You won’t regret it. Ellsbury will make the Giant fans swoon.
Has a Buster Onley rumor ever been true? Cueto is on the Giants roster this year. Yankee fan trades that never happen.
Right because it’s Yankee fans clamoring for a 33 yo pitcher owed $71 mil who’s recovering from TJ surgery.
Ellsbury is a negative asset to a team that trades for him as he has absolutely no value right now attached to a lot of money. At this point the Yankees should just let his contract expire as there are only two years left on it if I’m not mistaken
Elsbury for the Shark seems like the only realistic trade scenario. Even money going back. Both reclamation projects. Shark becomes 6th starter long relief arm. As a Yankee fan I would do this. Cueto for Elsbury just doesn’t make sense for both teams because Cueto owes allot more money and Elsbury is always hurt and at 35yo has zero value. The Shark is also a zero value contract. Elsbury can hit when healthy and play avg at best defense.
It amazes me that Cueto keeps getting talked about as the albatross. Cueto had a great 16, his 17 wasn’t nearly as good but better than most, and his 18 was going really well until his elbow gave out.
If he comes back healthy, he is heads and shoulders above Samardzija.
And as far as this article goes, if the Giants trade for Ellsbury it would be even worse than the Longoria trade last season.
Cueto’s 2016 was elite — no question. Saying his 2017 was better than most is a bit of an overstatement, especially considering the Giants’ home ballpark, and the fact he was getting paid nearly 22m. Additionally, his start to 2018 was impressive but a pitcher *returning from TJ surgery at the age of 34 is far from a guarantee — especially taking into account that Cueto will be owed nearly 50m for his age 34/35 seasons (including 2022 buyout).
Elsbury for queto, smaraja and melancon. They already can compete with the O’s for #1 draft pick 2020.
So you want the Yanks to eat 3 bad contracts for one??? You realize there’s no roster space left???
The Yankees don’t dump salary. Other than Andrew Suarez and Wlll Smith, I don’t see anyone who would improve the Yankees. Perhaps they also swap 3B this works for the Giants.
Garryharris: You’re kidding right? Trading Smith to the yanks for Ellsbury?? Tell me that isn’t what you meant?
And if you don’t think the yanks would dump Ellsbury in a heartbeat if some team were willing to take him because “the yankees don’t dump salary” tells me you are living in a different world.
Since when do the Yankees not dump salary? A-Rod was dumped for over $25m. Or do you think an egomaniac like him willingly went into retirement a year before his contract was up and while he still had a very good chance to hit more home runs than Ruth? The Yankees would dump Ellsbury and probably close to half of his contract at the first opportunity.
Olney’s article once he identified Giant’s interest in Ellsbury didn’t take into account who was interested (Zaidi) and what that interest really would be about, Giants getting a young player in the deal..
NYY are in a win now window and it’s beneficial to them if Ellsbury is off their roster and ideally in a non-DFA manner. They get their roster space back which is win, the player they receive could make their CBT number go down also a win. That player might very well fit their roster better than Ellsbury as well. In a deal like this, would it surprise anyone if both Ellbury and whomever the Giants might send don’t finish out their respective contracts and get DFA’d?
Giants players
Cueto does not have NTC however he doesn’t help the Yankees CBT situation in 19 or 20, is very unlikely to play in 2019 + 1 additional year in 2021. @$21M for a guy in the middle of TJ recovery. Silly he was even brought up by Onley, or at least that he was named first.
Shark has a limited NTC but he likes to win so NYY aren’t on his short list of “no teams”. 2yrs left like Ellsbury but his deal totals ~$8M less and while both aren’t currently healthy IF healthy Shark has more present value. So there’s a $’s and talent to bridge in the form of a prospect
Melancon has a full NTC but is an ex Yankee so who knows if he’s open to this. He also has 2yrs, about ~$11M less, so $5M+ CBT win. He played the last 4 months of the season but hasn’t returned to his pre-surgery form. On field edge to Melancon simply for being active in 2018 but he would be about bridging the $’s with a prospect.
Let’s not forget Ellsbury has full NTC too, it’s never been clear he wants to move and if consideration is necessary for him to do so.
Lastly Belt. He is a legit player, a career OPS+ 130. Their contracts have similar $’s left however Belt’s is over 3yrs, the CBT pick up is ~$7M in 19 and 20. The prospect in this sort of deal would be legit and likely would start with Frazier.
There really isn’t much in the way of a real option here that works for both sides. but nonetheless I will try to think of one..
Mark Melancon-Right off the bat he should not be a part of the deal. He’s one of the best relievers on the Giants and he’s not all that expensive considering the cost of relievers. So if Melancon pitches well this year he could be a very useful trade chip for them at the trade deadline. On the Yankees he’d at best be the 5th best reliever. Coupled with the fact that the Yankees would be tossing Ellsbury in this deal and the Yankees would have to send out way too much prospect capitol to be worthwhile.
Johnny Cueto-Contract is too long so dealing for him wouldn’t really make much sense. At best he’d be the guy to replace CC after this year and do we really want to pay that much money for someone to fill that role? Nope. Also, because he’s hurt his contract is partially covered by insurance and he has enough upside when healthy to be of real value to the Giants. They are probably better off holding onto him to see if he can recover some value when healthy.
Brandon Belt-I reflexively said no to him initially because of his contract length but I like the fact that he’s a veteran lefty bat. As a potential platoon partner with Voit he wouldn’t be a bad option. But we can sign veteran guys to compete with Bird for that role (Logan Morrison and Lucas Duda) for much cheaper, for a much shorter term and without sacrificing prospect capital.
So to me the only deal that makes sense for both sides is one that is largely based around Jacoby Ellsbury for Jeff Samardzija. In this deal the Giants get a veteran outfielder while the Yankees can hide Samardzija in the AJ Cole-type garbage time long reliever role until he proves himself capable of more. What other pieces the Yankees could give up would depend upon how much of that extra money the Giants are willing to pick up. If they demand we pick up the majority of the difference and the 5 million dollar buy out then maybe nothing better than Luis Cessa. If they are willing to take on a little more then maybe Freicer Perez or Thairo Estrada. Perez is a high upside arm .but next year he’ll have to be protected from the Rule 5 and he’s pretty far away from the majors to help what should be a world series contender.
Samardzija for ellsbury. Turn around and sign Harper
Bad contract for bad contract. Samardzija for Ellsbury. Samardzija can be the long relief guy. He’d reunite larry Rothschild as well. Both are terrible pitching coach and pitcher. Perfect match
Its the only deal that makes sense.