It has long seemed obvious that the Blue Jays would prefer to hold top prospect Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at Triple-A to open the 2019 season. After all, the team decided not to call him up late last season and can push back his potential free agency by one season if they keep him down for at least a brief stretch to begin the new campaign. GM Ross Atkins declined yesterday to provide any kind of hint as to the anticipated timing, as Keegan Matheson of the Score tweets, though he did so in a manner that seemingly suggests the club is indeed preparing to hold off on a call-up. “There’s no firm timeline on when [Guerrero] arrives or when he is playing in Toronto for the first time,” said Atkins, “but we want to make sure he’s the best possible third baseman and the best possible hitter he can be.”
Let’s take a look at some other notes from the American League …
- The Red Sox and shortstop Xander Bogaerts reportedly failed to gain traction in extension talks earlier this winter. Perhaps it’s still possible, though, that the pending free agent could line up with the organization on a new deal. As John Tomase of WEEI.com writes, Bogaerts acknowledged that the slow-developing free agent market provides cause for him to consider extension scenarios — “you obviously have to think about that,” he said — though he also did not exactly hint that he’s particularly inclined to forego the risks and upside of the open market. The 26-year-old called this winter’s market developments “weird.” As for the possibility of a future in Boston, he ultimately would say only that he likes playing with the team and that “we’ll see what happens.”
- While the Twins have looked into extensions with multiple young players, and recently locked up both Max Kepler and Jorge Polanco, all is quiet on that front at this point, per LaVelle E. Neal III off the Star Tribune (via Twitter). Players such as outfielder Eddie Rosario and righty Jose Berrios would seem to represent highly appealing targets, though both also have added leverage due to their strong 2018 seasons.
- The Tigers, meanwhile, do not appear to have anything in the works with outfielder Nicholas Castellanos, who seems to be more of a mid-season trade candidate than extension candidate. Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press writes that skipper Ron Gardenhire would prefer Castellanos stick around. He just might get his wish, at least for the first half of the season, as it still seems there’s insufficient market interest in the defensively challenged slugger to pique the Detroit organization’s interest.
jordan4giants 2
The Blue Jays are so full of crap. Every time a team screws over a player by keeping them down 2 weeks to start the seadon I wonder why a lawsit isn’t filed.
This is why the players should strike. Such horse droppings!!
heater
Because they have that right. It’s not up to the players or agents when they make the big league club. Time to get over it.
bravesfan88
Not only that, but it also takes away an immense amount of pressure off the promising prospect.
This allows then to start the season in AAA, get off to a hot start, and then they can get called up, skipping over the circus that is opening day.
It will only help amd benefit the prospect by keeping him down for a few weeks. Even if the prospect gets off to a mediocre start to their season, like Acuña Jr. last season, then it’ll allow then a fresh and exciting new start at the big league level.
I think keeping the prospect in AAA is a win-win for both the organization as well as the player.
jordan4giants 2
This is blatant servise time manipulation. I get most fans love the owners and want to side with them cause we don’t watch baseball because of the players. We watch it to cheer on billionares screwing over their employees.
2 weeks down on the farm will cost Vlad over 20million in future earnings! (Provided he plays almost as well as anticipated)
bigguccisosa300
I agree!! This guy knows what he’s talking about too as a braves fan , dealt with it with Acuna last year
bush1
It is very far from a win win for both the team and the players. It is a HUGE win only for the team, and saves them millions and costs the players millions because of delaying their free agency.
With that said. It was negotiated by the players association to allow for this stupid rule, so it is only fair that teams do what’s right for their business and franchise.
I’ve always thought making the cutoff at mid season would stop this is, and many teams would instead start their superstars at the beginning of the year when they clearly deserved to be like Vlad Jr, Acuna, and Bryant. With it being only 2 weeks, it’s a no brained to hold the player down for the extra year of control.
bigguccisosa300
That is just your opinion my friend. bravesfan made a great point about getting off to a hot start in AAA and then bringing that confidence and hot streak to the next level. If they’re legit, all these kids are going to make millions of dollars anyways , we’re not talking about fringe prospects here
kzw
It’s all good until one of these top prospects suffers a career ending injury before being called up when he’s earned the right to be called up. One day in the majors is lifelong health coverage. 43 days earns an annual pension. If Vlad Jr. gets hurt this spring and never makes it, he’s been screwed out of health insurance for life and had he been a September callup last year (he should’ve been) an annual pension for life.
steelerbravenation
Well if you agree your both are wrong. At the end of the day this is a job. A job that provides these guys the ability to provide for not only immediate family but extended family as well. Now Vlad Jr I am sure isnt hurting for money like most Dominican born players but it’s still hurting his ability to make the most money. I also understand it is the system they have in place and teams have every right to do what they do.
But don’t give me that garbage it’s better for the player to push back his paydays for a year so he doesn’t have to deal with the pressures of opening day.
rizdakc99
Considering Kris Bryant filed a grievance over service time manipulation vs. the Cubs… I’m not exactly sure players would agree with you.
Cat Mando
Kris Bryant filed a grievance over service time and it still is unresolved.
bush1
Well it’s not really just my opinion it’s an actual fact that it costs those players millions, going to free agency a full year later, and saves the team millions.
Obviously, all those guys are going to make millions and become wealthy. But there’s no doubt it costs them millions, gives the team leverage, and makes them a full year older when they go to free agency which hurts too.
Acuna got off to a terrible start In AAA and then the MLB started slow, after He dominated spring training and completely deserved to make the Opening Day roster, so getting sent to the minors in to start the year probably hurt his overall performance even though he finished strong.
I really don’t even think it’s close. What we are talking about only helps the team and not the players at all, regardless of how rich they become.
Vedder80
It doesn’t do a thing for the player other than screw them out of millions of dollars. Don’t kid yourself that a player of this profile, who hit over .400 as a teenager in AA last season and then over .330 in AAA is getting any benefit whatsoever. He is not getting paid to start the season, then he is getting to arbitration later, then he is getting to free agency later, and then his age will be held against him in free agency. He is not getting any benefit at all from this decision.
canocorn
— “At the end of the day this is a job.“ —
At the end of the day it’s a night game.
Dl24
I know it’s somewhat besides the point, but Vlad Jr. Was born in Canada and as such already has free healthcare for life.
canocorn
Please define ‘free healthcare’.
Canada’s income taxes are much higher than ours. That’s how they pay for the ‘free’ healthcare.
And what do you get for all that dough? Cookie-cutter health services. My Canadian friends tell me any Canadian with money travels to the States for health care.
davidcoonce74
Yeah, Guerrero needs way more time in triple-A, after batting 336/414/560 there last year as a 19-year-old. Give me a break.
bigguccisosa300
That is one of the funniest things I’ve ever read hahahaha. I’m 26, was born in Vancouver and have lived in BC my entire life, and have never travelled to the states for health care , nor have I ever heard of anyone ever doing that. Smh hahaha
warren r.
And Americans travel to “molar city” in Mexico for dental care. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
bluejays92
You must be lucky to not know anyone with serious medical issues then. I’m the same age but from Ontario and know a few people (one person being a family member) that have gone down to the US explicitly for healthcare reasons. Just because you’ve never heard of someone doing that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.
macstruts
You’re 26. Enough said.
bigguccisosa300
Maybe that’s why so many people from Ontario move to BC then smfh.. that absolutely 100% never happens out here.
bigguccisosa300
I’ve had my jaw, collarbone, hand, foot broken….. my grandpa has cancer ….. I know many people who have passed away ….. never left BC for healthcare. You guys are so ridiculous.
Priggs89
Starting off in AAA did absolutely nothing to help Acuna last year – just like it’ll do nothing to help Vlad Jr or Eloy this year’s. It’s 100% about service time manipulation, and to think otherwise is naive at best.
TBJ12
Vlad was born in Canada. He already has access to free medical care for life.
hetzel01
A strike is looming. Players minimum needs to be 2X what it is today.
FA needs to come after 4 years…put in something like the franchise tag NFL has…stipulate a one year only tag.
The service time issue will be handled in the next agreement as well!
canocorn
— “that absolutely 100% never happens”
… in your experience.
Sorry about your grandfather. I wish him the best in his battle with Big C. Two questions though:
1) Is your grandfather a heavy hitter financially, and completely happy with the health care he gets in Canada?
2) What percentage of your gross income goes to taxes?
bluejays92
You’re just posting more anecdotal stories which really does nothing to back up your claims of “No one does this in BC because I don’t know of anyone who does”. Also “jaw, collarbone, hand, foot broken” aren’t the reasons (purely speculating, but I’d imagine that even cancer is something that isn’t what many people leave for) people go and seek out treatment in other countries typically.
therealryan
Taxes are spent on much more than just healthcare in the US and Canada. If you’re asking that tax question to get an idea of healthcare costs, you can look up the information specifically. Canada spent 11.3% of their GDP in 2018 on healthcare(CIHI), whereas the US spent 17.9% of GDP in 2017 on healthcare(CMS).
Dkaner
The players are going to make this a focal point of any new CBA. IMOP, service time should start to acquire once the player reaches AA so the team is more likely to push a player up then to keep a player down. Length of contract, arbitration and the “Qualifying Offer” will also be issues in the next CBA. Players should demand that the 1st year minimum be increased to 1.5 million 2nd year 3 million and 3rd 6 million. Arbitration in years 4 & 5. Get rid of the “super two” status.
Bernie's Dander
Jordan, this is the system that the players collectively bargained with the owners. They agreed to every single aspect. If the players are unhappy, they should blame their union first.
its_happening
Bigg….People in Ontario travel to New York State for better healthcare constantly. Granted they are upper income earners.
Now you’ve heard.
Dl24
Nothing is stopping a old, rich person from going to the States to spend $30,000 for a new hip, I’ll stick to paying my small amount of taxes that will go towards getting the same hip for free here.
Trudy riley
Why are we having a discussion about health care on a mlb board
Iron Mike
im from canada and have never seen or heard of anyone going to the states for healthcare.
miggy4prez
What the fuq are you guys even talking about lol
hersch
You’re referring to the 1%ers. Most Canadians can’t afford to go to the US for medical treatments. And for the record I personally know of a couple (he’s American and she’s Canadian) who were living in the US that sold their home and moved to Canada so that she could get her cancer treatments for free as those same treatments would have bankrupted them had they stayed in the US. Very sad state of affairs with medical care in the US.
tigerdoc616
Horse $h!t! That might be a factor for a marginal prospect, but Vlad Jr. Is a premium prospect and a star in the making. There is nothing, NOTHING he can learn in AAA. Pure service time mainipulaiton. This is the kind of crap that helped Kyler Murray choose football.
badco44
I think it’s called “ the collective bargaining agreement “…. expect changes at the next one!
grizzled sports vet
While the CBA is mutually agreed to, & both sides negotiate the terms, massive changes to a CBA rarely happen. More often, minor tweaks are made, with a give & take from both sides. That being said, the players won’t get everything changed in their favor, even if they go on strike. Generally what happens from the union side is the senior employees, or veteran players in this case, will make sure they are taken care of before the younger players. Free Agency & Arbitration years will be on the docket before entry level contacts or an effective call up date for a Rookie towards MLB service time. You can only slice a pie so many ways. Rookies & Prospects will get the smallest slice. I’m all for getting rid of keeping Prospects in MiLB just to push back the start of MLB service but the MLB vets will take care of their own before someone that has yet to play in the big leagues. They already went through the entry level process. They won’t give up something in Free Agency discussions to eliminate the start of service dates. I’ve been involved with CBA’s, grievances and arbitrations for 30 years. While all the players can vote to ratify a new CBA by majority, they are only seeing what was finally agreed to bring back to actually vote on. Unfortunately, when greed is involved, things don’t end up distributed fairly, even among the ranks of a union. It’s interesting, and sometimes nauseating to know what has been left behind from the chopping block of a negotiation. For what could have been and how it could have affected future CBA’s…
canocorn
— “MLB vets will take care of their own…” —
… just like politicians.
goat
I hope they miss the playoffs by 1 or 2 games that they could have won if they would have brought him up at the beginning.
Wade Herbers
Blue Jays and playoffs???? Anything can happen , but I’ll put my dime on it won’t!
On another note…people whining about him being in minors for 10 days will be the same ones whining when he leaves so thank god the Jays are gonna control him a extra year. He sure as hell ain’t gonna want to stay there. If he’s the star everyone thinks he will be He will FLEE asap to the bright lights of NYC/LA or Boston.
Cat Mando
jordan4giants………….”I wonder why a lawsit (sic) isn’t filed.”
Because they signed a collectively bargained agreement and would would have to file a grievance first with solid proof that the agreement has been violated. There is no grounds for either despite so many people who scream “lawsuit” when they disagree with something.
dimitrios in la
Several solid points above. The way the rule stands it seems to create a kind of antagonism between player and club, with the club winning the first advantage, the player then noticing this and responding accordingly thereafter.
yamsi1912
Jordan4giants stfu
dixoncayne
Teams are playing by the rules. The system keeps players from getting called up and needs to be changed.
Brizzo123
That is what the PLAYERS agreed to in the CBA. If I was an owner why not keep him down for two weeks so you could have an extra controlled year. I get that it’s frustrating and not right but they are not doing anything wrong. It’s up to the union to now negotiate better for themselves next CBA
flippinbats79
They aren’t “screwing him over”. He gets one extra arb year. That 4th arb year us likely to be at market rate.
jdgoat
And yet they’d be total morons if they did call him up. It’s a flawed system, but they are obviously making the correct choice.
CursedRangers
Still not as bad as what the NCAA does. Kids play for free while teams take in millions.
warren r.
Losing six weeks now, during a rebuild, in exchange for six months later is a perfectly fine compromise to make.
jleve618
A team would be stupid to not do it. It’s just good business.
Paul Miller
The players signed the CBA led by Tony Clark, one of the worst player union reps of all time. He bowed out big time last time they signed the deal. Don’t blame the teams, blame the MLBPA.
.
zachgwest
Yes, their should be some type of rule for this but such gray areas I don’t know what it would be…
jd396
Some kind of “franchise tag” system that lets you retain a home grown superstar an extra year could do it.
xabial
Jays going to work the system and keep Guerrero in minors
Learn to accept it, next 3 years… This is smart business. Maybe they fix this in the next CBA — unlikely but hopefully..
xXabial
I believe the biggest fix will be FA….either way in the end , its up to teams / ownership amd what they pay. in the end, ownership will forever rule the industry.
petfoodfella
There’s no fix to FA. Each player COULD have signed already. Harper and Machado are holding up others.
Blame their agents. Not FA.
Brizzo123
Yup…you are only worth what teams are willing to pay
jdgoat
FA is obviously broken when there’s only a handful of teams seriously in on these superstar players.
CursedRangers
When an agent is making three times a year than Trout, Kershaw, Stanton, etc… at some point that has to be addressed as an issue.
Boras will make almost as much as the entire Texas Rangers major league roster this year. That’s absurd (for both Boras and the Rangers)
davidcoonce74
That’s baloney. Boras runs a massive organization, which includes a highly respected training facility and dozens of employees. All the money he makes from contracts doesn’t go to him.
jleve618
Some teams can’t afford them, some teams don’t need them.
its_happening
Owners run a massive organization, which includes highly respected scouts, office personnel and sales staff. Yet your approach to Boras’ company is much different than a baseball organization. Imagine that. Nice logic there, Starbucks74.
CursedRangers
Boras has a net worth of over $400M. He’s keeping a good bit of the change he is charging.
xabial
@CursedRangers
If Boras bought the Marlins, not Jeter-group, he’d go bankrupt, since the sale included assumption of Marlins’ 400M debt.
User 4245925809
Bogaerts not an extension candidate and a shame. Boras will push for an over pay until he reaches FA next winter. I’d rather see the team focus on Sale by a long shot, tho both have said multiple times they want to remain in Boston, Sale like every week.
Think the recently signed Kapler extension gives some kind of insight as to the worth of JBJ also. Granted, JBJ has 1 more year of experience and better with the glove (not by a mile tho), but the bats are right there.
That extension should be making Boras and Bradley pay attention that he’s not going to approach 50m on any deal in another cpl years unless that bat gets considerably more consistent.
xXabial
lets see what sale can bring 2nd half.before money is thrown
deweybelongsinthehall
Read the full article. Bagaerts clearly wants to stay. He was signed as a 16 year old and has been with the organization since. I previously had doubts the Sox and he would agree on an extension. Now I believe it will happen. It just has to play out.
davidcoonce74
Nope. Always take the everyday player over the pitcher, especially with Sale’s recent injury history.
JFactor
Best way to fix this is to decrease the number of years of team control teams get over their prospects, and change service time around. Instead of it being total number of days, make it something like, any appearance at the MLB level in a season is a service year. Would completely change the landscape of free agency, and would make players free agents at 25, 26, 27 all the time.
JFactor
And then change the draft so that every team that doesn’t make the playoffs goes into a lottery system with equal probabilities for picks 1-20. And then playoff teams would be 21-30.
Get rid of compensation for free agent signings as well.
And you’d start to see mega dollars in free agency again.
If owners need a cap to make those things happen, I’d say these are scenarios for the players union that would help them to support a cap
PaidByTheNotes
You want to increase spending by putting more spending restrictions in place? How does that work?
The problem is with teams that aren’t spending, so they need to put a floor and/or incentives in place to encourage spending. Stop incentivizing losing would be a good start.
lukeintothedaze
I feel like his suggestion of a lottery system for the draft has the potential to encourage teams to field a competitive team and fix the tanking problem. If there’s the same possibility of a high draft pick whether you finish 81-81 and barely miss the playoffs or 60-102 and have the worst record in baseball then it would seem to only make sense to put a competitive team on the field every year.
The problem I see with lowering the number of years of team control is the low budget teams like the Rays, A’s, Pirates, etc. With less inexpensive contracts/random draft picks how would those teams continue to remain competitive?
Flapjax55
Excellent point on low budget teams!
canocorn
Excellent point, but perhaps not a comprehensive perspective.
Do you really want to see the best draft choices go to lottery winners? Championships that are predicated on the luck of the draw? There’s already enough of that, inherent to just playing the games.
What if a solidly built team wins three lotteries in a row? Unfair dynasty potential. What if a struggling small-market team loses three lotteries in a row? Unfair bankruptcy proceedings.
The goal is competitive balance and the overall fiscal health of MLB.
User 4245925809
I may be wrong, but have been thinking that when FA was in it’s earliest years a player only needed 4y to reach it. If that is so.. The MLBPA bargained it away (2y) years ago and it would probably be very tough to get those 2 seasons back.
yamsi1912
Jfactor you stfu too you puzzay.
ScottRC
Sadly, I don’t see Castellanos getting moved till the deadline. Despite his hitting, he’s by far the worst defensive RF in baseball.
bush1
Right, and it seems DH only type guys don’t have much trade interest because teams like to rotate their DH most times. Plus he could only play in the AL to begin with. No competitive team would want him to play in the field.
kzw
He isn’t any worse than Kyle Schwarber. If my memory serves me correct, the Cubs have been somewhat competitive during his short big league tenure while playing him in the field.
sawxfan82
what happened to this guy? over hyped I guess. Thought he’d be stellar. Right now he’s just meh. Still time to turn it around
Stat_head
No. Advanced stats show Bryce Harper is worse than Nick in RF.
davidcoonce74
1. Trout • LAA 279
2. Bregman • HOU 278
3. Freeman • ATL 274
4. Harper • WSN 273
5. Ramirez • CLE 270
6. Betts • BOS 269
7. Goldschmidt • ARI 268
8. Yelich • MIL 262
9. Martinez • BOS 261
Lindor • CLE 261
ffrhb14Sox
And where did Harper finish in any one category or WAR as an overall stat? He is fine but not a top 10 player in really anything. He’s inconsistent and if he didnt walk he would have only 1 or 2 all star selections ( without his overrated hype train he has been riding most years). For what has been promised he has underdelivered and it is funny this offseason has come when every team was supposed to be dying to throw money at him and camps open without him.
davidcoonce74
Castellanos’ batted-ball profile (launch angle, velocity, etc) is almost identical to that of JD Martinez. I think the Tigers see that. He’s a damn good hitter and if he, like JDM, can get out of having to play a position, he might become an elite hitter.
ScottRC
The point is he has little trade value.
Cam
Can’t blame the Blue Jays here – the MLBPA agreed to these rules, and will have a hard time getting any ground back at the next negotiations.
Bottom line is, Vlad Jr is good enough to be in the Majoras right now, and he isn’t down for development reasons. If the best players aren’t playing meaningful baseball, then the system needs fixing.
stymeedone
The system is there to encourage teams to invest in minor league signings. For every player that makes it to the big leagues, the team pays for dozens of others who don’t. If the reward for paying for the development is to only get a few years of that player, teams will be less likely to invest in as many minor league teams. As an owner, I would not be as willing to call up a player quickly. For every Bryant or Acuna, there is also a Buxton or Hicks, players that appear to be ready at a young age, but when first called up, show they are not. If I am only getting 4 years of service time, and data shows best out put is at age 25-28, why would I ever call up my investment at age 21? Guess instead of holding them down for two weeks, they will stay down two years.
jimmertee
Gonna have to disagree with you. Vlad Jr’s defence won’t travel well to the big leagues. He is going to be exposed at 3rd. :Longterm he will end up a first baseman.
68tigers84
Perhaps the Tigers need to make Nick the DH, with spot starts in the field. The Tigers would go through a lot of prospects to find a bat like his. I say keep Nick & trade away the Rally Goose instead.
stymeedone
Nick has to be willing to sign for that to happen. Talks have fizzled. He doesn’t want to be the DH. Expect his defense to be better (not great), and hope they get something at the deadline.
RicoD
DH needs to be open for Miggy
steelerbravenation
I don’t understand why more teams don’t use this to their advantage by delaying the prospects’s arrival and gaining that extra year and then offering the prospect a contract extension with the buy outs of 2 free agent years. Gaining cost certainty thru arbitration years as well.
tharrie0820
What? Every team does it. People don’t really start caring about it until it’s a top prospect though
olekodosso
Like it or not, it’s simply rational for the team to sacrifice 2 weeks of Vlad Jr. playing in the majors for a whole extra year of service time down the road. If the players and agents don’t like it, they need to fix it in the next CBA instead of whining.
DarkSide830
agreed
Dio
I know it won’t happen but I find it interesting that we now have a player with a HOF pedigree and a father who made over $100 million during his career. So long as he was careful this kid is set for life. I know he doesn’t need to live off his fathers money but he could use it to his advantage in a kyler Murray sort of way.
What I mean isn’t Vlad will go play football full time (maybe he can who knows) but he could do the unthinkable and retire. Would a team cave in to a possible generational prospect to avoid this? Usually these kids just don’t have access to financial freedom and are forced to suck it up and take it because of the CBA. Fir once we have a player sitting there that while he is still a prospect may have the one thing working for him that teams are afraid of. Other options.
Is it bad that I want this to happen just to see someone stick it to a club. Do it for those guys that couldn’t because it was “the teams right and a financial baseball decision”. If it’s not right to hope for this then I’m ok with it being wrong. Tatis is another guy that may be able to use that to his advantage. His dad made quite a bit of money as a player. Bichette?
Cubguy13
Yeah it’s bad you want that to happen “just to stick it to a club.” You are being ridiculously selfish. The club is doing absolutely nothing wrong. They are following a rule that the players association sat down with them and agreed on. No player should be trying to stick it to their club for this. If anything, stick it to their players association for agreeing to the rule. You can’t hate the owners on this, and if you are a blue jays fan, you should be happy that you will get Guerrero Jr. for a whole year extra for sacrificing two weeks.
Dio
Not a Jays fan. I rarely attend games so ticket prices and mlb sales have very little affect on me. Heck I’m a Tigers fan 40 years strong and so I’ve seen the ups and downs. Elite prospects aren’t something I’ve had much trouble with from that organization.
Let’s put into terms you can understand. You work in a factory, make good money and that company decides to outsource to a foreign market to save some money on labor costs with zero concern for you. It has a negative impact on you, your friends, your family but who cares it’s that company’s right to do that. I pray that never happens to any of you. It’s not an act of selfishness that I’m promoting here. I hope you can now see that now.
its_happening
^Very good analogy.
ffrhb14Sox
And the company could not take a long term view and pay for labor that could be replaced and go out of business because it cant compete and all employees, their familes, and their friends are impacted. If its that cheaper to go foreign maybe better trade agreements help. Fact is both owners and employees need to care enough to do what makes sense for the company to stay viable.
Cardinals17
About Vlad Jr. —- if the man isn’t good enough to start on the team, it’s fine to hold him back. However——if he is already capable to make an impact as a starter, the heck with free agency! Bring him up. Start him. Win more games and have an outside shot at the play-offs.
Hayman19
Lol, I am a huge Jays fan and there is no chance they have an outside shot at the playoffs.
ffrhb14Sox
Jays have some young studs, hold them til the last of the group is ready then the clocks all start together and you have the longest window to compete.
SargentDownvote
My Jays will not be competing this season. Rebuild, rebuild, rebuild (again). Shapiro reckons fan attendance will also be down in 2019. I believe Vlad Jr. has the potential star power to bring fans to the seats but I guess they are dialing that back for another season (if they can help it). If things get real bad in Toronto, they will have to bring Vlad Jr. up if he’s ripping AAA. Just a matter of time.
Wade Herbers
Yup.About 2 weeks time.
Cashford64
Keep in mind he’s still only 19. Even with that extra year of control, he still hits free agency at 26… and in 2025 you guys will be complaining about how he doesn’t deserve the mega-contract he will be asking for.
tharrie0820
Not gonna happen. Owners are trying their hardest to scare players away from FA and get them to sign these absurdly team friendly early career contracts
tuna411
@bush
why does it cost the player millions? have you seen what a good player gets in his last year of arbitration?
and how about those opt outs? you know, player is fantastic, so he opts out, the team loses a great contract, and makes even MORE money. or he sucks, and the team is on the hook for anchor of a contract.
RicoD
Arbitration will simply start a year earlier. It’s not about the amount at each stage, it’s when the process will start.
tuna411
@kzw
on the reverse side of that coin, how about the guy who signs a long term contract, then sucks??!! the team is on the hook no matter what.
it works both ways…
tuna411
@dio
I am simply flabbergasted at your retirement suggestion, you clearly have issues…
Dio
Not sure what is so hard for you to comprehend or why you think I’ve got issues. I see this as an eye for an eye. Are you salty because this would deprive you of getting to watch a possible star talent? I propose this because I am of the belief that fair wages are a good thing. The player is losing out. Nothing will change until the team has something to lose. The A’s are going to lose out on quite a bit with Murray unless they were to pony up. Same thing in my scenario. The owners dont care about the loss of a prospect. They care about reputation and public perception.
flippinbats79
They aren’t “screwing him over”. He gets one extra arb year. That 4th arb year us likely to be at market rate.
Big Hurt
Why is no one crying for the White Sox? Everyone whines that Vlad and Eloy aren’t brought up in time, and someone even mentioned a career ending injury showing everyone how horrible it is for the player. Well the White Sox brought up Michael Kopech late in the year, when they COULD have held him in the minors like Jimenez, and after 4 starts he needed Tommy John surgery. Now they’ve lost 2 years of ‘control’ time because of it. This stuff happens, and the way things are structured now it makes sense to hold these terrific prospects out until mid-April of the year they can contribute and fit in the team’s strategy.
canocorn
— SmallerHurt;
Valid points.
On Kopech, hindsight is 20/20. What if he’d stayed healthy and finished strong? He’d be more experienced and chomping at the bit to attack hitters in ‘19. His team would have seen a respectable spike in season tickets this offseason.
I wonder what Kopech’s take is. Not in hindsight, but in terms of how it made him feel about himself and his team when he got the call.
On Eloy, don’t be surprised if he makes the team out of ST. If he does, you owe me a beer. If not, I owe you one. K?
Big Hurt
Yeah – interesting conversation, and btw, I’m not saying I disagree with the move. I was happy to see Kopech up last year, and will be equally happy if Cease (or Dunning) pitches well enough this year to be up in August/September time period. My main point is that there is some risk on the club’s side when bringing up a player for the September call-up.
As for the bet, I’m in, but I will qualify it by saying that I believe he could make the team out of ST ONLY if the Sox get Harper (unlikely) or Machado (slightly more likely). If they do not, then bringing him up 16 days later makes WAY more sense, since it would be difficult to project anything higher than 2nd or 3rd place in the Central with the current roster.
chicagofan1978
Kopech could have gotten hurt in the minors too. Sure he may have amped it up a little bit when he came up but anything could have happened
canocorn
Tell you what, …
Regardless of Eloy out of ST or not, let’s you, ‘78 and me meet at the G-spot for a game. Hopefully we can raise a glass to Machado down there on the field.
Big Hurt
Yes, of course he could have been hurt in the minors, but he wouldn’t be accruing major league time while he sits out a year if he had.
Big Hurt
Cool
James1955
The big thing is that teams have dead weight contracts and the players think that the teams are not spending enough money on free agents. The last time the players went on strike, the National Labor Relations Board ordered the players back to work under the old contract. If they can’t agree on a CBA, they can continue under the old CBA. The players can’t work if the Owners and players can’t agree on a CBA.
Kevin28786
Holding kids back a few weeks to gain an extra year is just one more example of how poorly negotiated the last MLB contract was. The players don’t need to gripe at the owners, they need to gripe at their representation. Is it wrong to hold back kids like Guerrero and Acuna to gain a year of control? Of course it’s wrong, but it’s the deal the players made. Striking prior to the end of the contract is a no-win situation for the players, but I fully expect a strike at the end of this contract…………and go get yourselves better representation this time! Geez
ffrhb14Sox
Its not wrong, if that player cant help you compete this year but might down the road, it is the right and only decision. The organization has paid to draft/sign assets and to develop them, they decide when that investment will pay off at the top level. When a guy busts out in the minors do you say the player owes them anything?
tuna411
wow. an apologist for slimy bor-ass. lololol.
chicagofan1978
As a fan why would you not want an extra year of Vlad Eloy or Bryant? For 8 games? I’ll take it
Gordon Lightfoot
Will be great to see Toronto finally have a legit young, top talent on the roster when Vlad Jr arrives. No Sportsnet PR hype, a legit player. Toronto should work the system, it’s not the Jays’ responsibility to be moral in the face of the call-up loophole.
I don’t think free agency is broken. I think free agency is evolving. The system is not broken simply because Boras didn’t get the made-up-number he wanted. In fact, Boras’ demands and tactics are playing a central role in the market corrections occurring around free agency. Harper said “no” to $300 million – where is the accountability on behalf of Boras and his clients? Sorry Kate, I mean Mr. Upton, I mean Justin, I don’t agree.
jimmertee
Well said.
macstruts
The rules are the rules. Holding Vladimir back is smart. Change the rule based on the 40 man roster. These players will hit free agency at a younger age. Problem solved.
canocorn
— “The rules are the rules.” —
Orders are orders.
Hors d’oeuvres, which must be obeyed at all times without question!
Vanilla Good
Wow. Really, really good stuff from Xander there.
its_happening
There hasn’t been any discussion over a longterm deal for Vlad, similar to what Philly did with Kingery and Tampa did with Longoria. Perhaps there has been discussion and we do not know that. I’d imagine someone would have leaked that information in the same manner we found out Jose Bautista wanted a massive extension in 2017.
If there was anyone that should command a longterm deal it would be Guerrero. A deal would solve the issue. Problem is, Jays don’t want to take that risk if he flatlines, and Guerrero’s agent would warn against it if he becomes a Top 5 hitter in the league.
Dilemmas.
I predict he’ll be called up April 26. It makes the promotion look less fishy.
Guest617
manfred shud step in, grab his dck and address the issue. jr deserved a call up last year and obv earned a starter role this yr.