11:19am: MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand tweets that the Yankees had offers from multiple teams they’d have accepted for Gray as of last Friday, so if talks with the Reds don’t pan out, those proposals could once again come into play.
Jan. 21, 10:08am: Heyman tweets that there’s some optimism from the Reds that they’ll be able to work out an extension before today’s window closes. However, if the extension doesn’t materialize (and, thus, the currently proposed trade does not go through), the Yankees may “look elsewhere” for a trade partner for Gray.
Jan. 20, 4:56pm: A resolution on a Yankees-Reds trade is not expected tonight, and a deadline on a 72-hour negotiation window between Gray and Cincy is sometime late on Monday, Rosenthal tweets.
11:03am: The Reds are indeed attempting to extend Gray, according to Heyman, who adds the two teams have agreed on a trade package. But whether Gray gets an extension could affect the return for him.
10:37am: It’s possible the Reds are trying to sign Gray to an extension before acquiring him, Rosenthal tweets, though he notes a deal could come together either way.
Jan. 19, 6:08pm: The two sides are “finalizing” the deal, per Heyman, who reports the Yankees will likely receive Long and a draft pick. The Yankees could also land a third piece in the trade, Heyman suggests.
2:31pm: Per Heyman, the Reds would prefer not to include Stephenson in a deal for Gray, and talks now “center around” Long. Stephenson, 22, was the 11th overall selection in the 2015 draft, and has steadily progressed through the Cincinnati farm. In last month’s update, Kiley McDaniel and Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs projected the 6’4″ righty as an average regular, lauding his double-plus arm and 60 grade raw power. Long also projects as a regular, though perhaps not at second, where he has “below average hands” and “clunky footwork,” per Fangraphs’ scouting report.
Jan. 19, 9:02am: Expect Gray to be moved sometime this weekend, per Fancred’s Jon Heyman (Twitter link). The Reds and Yankees are inching closer to a deal, with two prospects and a draft pick the expected return for Gray. Long and Stephenson (currently the #6 and #7 prospects in the Reds system per MLB.com) are the prospects most likely to be headed to New York. It’s not a done deal, however, as the Giants, Brewers, and Braves are still part of the conversation.
Jan. 18, 4:55pm: There are other teams still involved, per Andy Martino of SNY.tv (Twitter link), including at least the Padres and Giants. There have been some discussions of three-team arrangements, Martino also notes.
Jan. 18, 2:33pm: The Reds are “making progress” in their talks with the Yankees regarding veteran righty Sonny Gray, according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (via Twitter). It emerged yesterday that the Yanks were nearing a deal involving the starter, though multiple organizations were still said to be involved in talks.
It seems fair now to assume that the Cincinnati club is emerging as a favorite, though it’s certainly too soon to rule out alternatives. The Reds have already added a pair of starters via trade in Tanner Roark and Alex Wood. Like those hurlers, Gray is entering his final season of arbitration eligibility. He’ll earn $7.5MM after agreeing to terms with the Yankees, making him a bit less costly than the other two pitchers.
The potential return remains to be seen, and obviously hasn’t quite been nailed down. Jon Heyman of Fancred reports (Twitter links) that the organizations are still discussing different prospects — second baseman Shed Long and catcher Tyler Stephenson among them — while a draft pick could also be part of the return. (That would have to be the Reds’ 2019 competitive balance pick, which is a valuable sandwich-round selection currently slotted in at No. 36 overall.)
If they can wrap up an agreement, the Reds would certainly present quite a different rotation than the ones they have trotted out in recent years. Roark, Wood, and (hypothetically) Gray all have their warts, but each has found plenty of success in the majors. They’d likely join Anthony DeSclafani and hard-throwing Luis Castillo to round out the starting five under new manager David Bell.
It’s notable, of course, that none of Roark, Wood or Gray comes with control rights beyond the ’19 season. The same is also true of recently acquired outfielders Yasiel Puig and Matt Kemp. It’s possible that the Reds simply prefer one-year commitments at this time, which would allow them the chance to reevaluate their future needs after the conclusion of the 2019 season.
Thronson5
Hitter friendly park..not the best play for him to go but regardless they definitely are upgrading their club and should be a lot better this season
stratcrowder
I think he’ll do fine in GABP. He’s the type of pitcher that can succeed there. I’m also one of those people that believe his 2018 season as a whole was an anomaly. His road splits are indicative of that.
joeshmoe11
Yankees have a pretty concrete pitching philosophy that works well for them but hopefully for the Reds if they acquire him a different voice can straighten him out. A glance at Fangraphs and it’s pretty clear he changed his repertoire in the Bronx and he crashed and burned. Hoping his old coach can refine him stuff
jolink65
Yeah, completely agree with you. Seemed like once he got to the Bronx he stopped attacking hitters and would nibble at the corners too much, which led to walks and forced him to throw too many pitches down the middle that wound up getting crushed. That’s what got him in trouble. I think a fresh start with another team would help him rebuild his confidence and turn him back more into the effective pitcher he was in Oakland.
stratcrowder
Yeps….I’m really hoping for this trade. I’ve loved both teams since the early 60’s and it makes way too much sense for both sides.
slider32
Javier Vasquez and others couldn’t pitch for the Yanks and did well after leaving. It doesn’t fit into the metrics world.
Samuel
@ joeshmoe11:
Great post!
I was stunned at how badly Rothschild did with the pitchers last year; especially the starting pitchers. All those youngsters he ran through – Jonathan Loaisiga, Luis Cessa, Domingo German, Chance Adams, Justus Sheffield. All got grounded for a bit, then looked ill at ease and totally lost. Same with A.J. Cole as well as Sonny Gray. Initially I put it off to their ability or the pressure of pitching in Yankee Stadium. When I realized that none were becoming serviceable in any capacity, I figured it was Rothschild.
It never occurred to me that they had a hard-and-fast system. Organizations/pitching coaches that build superior staffs have a general philosophy they want pitchers to use as a backdrop. But because pitchers are so different physically – i.e. multiple pitchers can throw the same pitch with the same grip at the same speed, yet it will move differently – I’ve seen the quality pitching coaches allowing for individuals to modify what they’re throwing to be effective. It does seem as if Rothschild wants to do things one way, yet so many of the pitchers can’t do it.
The theory in trading for Gray was that the Yankees would bring out his full potential. The Yankees had 1-1/2 years to work with him, and Gray got worse. I’m putting that on Rothschild unless Gray moves on the next few years and continues regressing. If he does in fact go to the Reds, I’d like to see what Derek Johnson does with him…..the man made Wade Miley an elite pitcher….at least for a year…..lol.
hiflew
Yeah and Barry Zito, Mark Mulder, Rich Harden, and Trevor Cahill all did much worse after leaving Oakland. Although Tim Hudson and Gio Gonzalez did as well upon leaving. The big question is where does Sonny Gray fall on the number line. As of now he looks more like a Rich Harden than a Tim Hudson.
joeshmoe11
If you look at his pitch mix he went from throwing fastballs 55% and no cutter in 2017 to 35% FB and 20% cutters. Neither pitch was very good according to pitch values but he’s at least had success with his FB before. His cutter ha always been hammered, which I’d sent he probably stopped using it for a few years. I’m sure it’s too simplistic to say “quit throwing that garbage meatball” but maybe he should quit throwing that garbage meatball..
joeshmoe11
Far be it from me to bash the Yankees, they’re an unmatched success but sometimes teams try to fit square pegs into round holes.
Samuel
@ joeshmoe11;
You can go ahead and bash the Yankees – at least as far as starting pitching goes. Their’s cost them the championship last year. Heck, when you have to bring in an out of shape Lance Lynn to rescue your season……
Relief pitching is another thing. Those guys are almost always failed starters that cut their repertoire of pitches from 3-6 to 1-3….then go out and pitch 35-80 innings a year. Hitters adjust to the majority – which is why relief pitchers are the most volatile group of players on a team. The Yankees solve that by bringing in guys with one extremely effective pitch and a few workarounds, while paying them salaries that other teams cannot afford. So far, the Yankees are going into 2019 with 3 upper-tier closers.
jameyc
that’s incorrect. untimely hitting cost them the series against boston. they had every chance to win that series but couldn’t get a hit when needed.
canocorn
Impossible to say how Sonny would mesh with Reds.
Gray isn’t even on the color wheel.
Coal tender
Gray isn’t the same pitcher he was when he was with the A’s. Not sure I would want him as a starter.
The Toe
Might it have been the Sox pitching more than Yanks hitting?
The Toe
Scarlet and Gray have worked great in Ohio.
Mystery Team
Exactly.
HardWorkingAmerican
He is probably a tweener of them. Hudson was a good pitcher who played for 3 good teams. Harden when healthy was rather dominant but he could never stay on the field for 150 innings. I believe in Gray, but Im not sure he will be the ace he was. A serviceable starter with 15 or 16 wins with 8 to 10 losses with an ERA between 3.75 and 4 and about 160K is my expectation.
Oxford Karma
A lot of that is true, add Kahnle. Adams & Sheffield struggled in the minors too last year though. German, Cessa & Jonny Lasagna, weren’t regarded as big prospects & AJ Cole was horrible w/the Nats. Chad Green, Holder & Betances have done well with LR. soon they’ll have two pitching coaches anyway! Probably more helpful than two hitting coaches.
pasha2k
Because the Redsox pitches handcuffed the hitters, wake up!
pasha2k
Yes
thefenwayfaithful 2
Want to start this by saying I’m a huge Sonny Gray fan. I’m sure if I look back to his earlier years in Oakland, I was constantly trying to put together pieces to bring him to Boston. That being said, Gray is not the pitcher he once was and this 2 prospects and a draft pick return is way overboard to bring him to GABP. I love his fit with the Padres or back with the A’s, but the Reds are reaching. Gray’s combination of HR/FB, 35.5% hard contact rate, etc point to a guy that will continue to struggle with the longball when he makes mistakes in hitter friendly parks.. FIP and xFIP agree that his 2018 stats should have been better given ballpark / fielding adjustments, but they still put him in over 4.10. He’s going to another hitters ballpark in a division with very few pitcher friendly parks. Most are pretty neutral.
If he can keep the ball down, he can still be a very effective pitcher. But he seems to pay for every mistake he makes these days. He’s not fooling anyone and his rising walk rates mean that guys are doing more damage when they take him deep. He walked nearly 4 per 9 last year. As a Sox fan in NY I saw a lot of Gray last season and man did I lick my chops on days he took the ball and stack FanDuel with power hitters from the other side.
If Boone didn’t hook him so quickly, I think his ERA would be inflated even worse.
Kevin28786
Your #6 and #7 prospects for 1 year of a middling starter? No wonder the Reds suck.
Mystery Team
Kevin I was thinking the same thing. I 100% wouldn’t give up a top ten prospect for Gray. Under contract for this year only and can walk away after the season. What if the Reds suck but Gray excels? He’s gone and the Reds are out two good prospects. I’m a Yankee fan and would love the trade but if I were the Reds I would stay away. They’d only be bolstering an already strong farm system while taking a player the Yankees don’t want off their hands.
seth3120
I don’t understand what the Reds are doing. They’ve made all these deals for guys with one year left. They have to surpass a lot of teams much better than they are to make the playoffs
clepto
care to retract your stupid comment now???
zip it next time til you get the whole picture because you now look like an idiot
Saint Chris
If the Reds suck and Gray excels, he can be traded at the deadline. Shed Long is a good prospect, the problem for the Reds is that he’s both defensively challenged and blocked by 2 or 3 guys in their system.
seth3120
If you’re referring to comment of the number six and seven it’s hard to blame him for reacting to a false report. This is a rumors site and people comment. We react to speculation. If the speculation is wrong then comments may not apply no need to get upset buddy
YourDaddy
He stinks at home no matter where he plays. He will stink in Great American just like he did in the Bronx.
ruffintumble 2
I’m not sure he has much say, if any, in trade destination preferences.
RedFeather
I can’t figure out what the Reds are really trying to do…
Iron Horse
They’re trying to at least attempt to compete. Something they haven’t done in a long time.
stratcrowder
Win.
EndinStealth
I agree. They are giving up legitimate prospects for one year rentals. Yet they still look like a fourth place team. Its kind of like they are sabotaging their own future.
Iron Horse
Ah, the proverbial future. The glorious future. The future in perpetuity. Reminds me of the Joe’s Crabshack sign: Free Crabs Tomorrow.
EndinStealth
Yet teams who actually do develop their players actually have a future. The Reds are giving up midway. This is going to set them back. The only way the recover from this is if they become spenders. That is not going to happen. They have “maybe” increased their win total 5-8 games. That’s not enough.
joeshmoe11
Reds have given up superfluous players in low A for 4 major league contributors. Wanna bet who provides more WAR for their new organizations? Puig, Kemp, and Wood for possibly one season each or Gray and Downs who are at least 2-3 years away?
ksoze
Superfluous so far, but if they actually trade Stephenson, and Long, then it’s actually going to make an impact. We only have Gennett for one more season, so Long slots in naturally there in 2020, and Stephenson will take over for Barnhart in probably 2 years.
EndinStealth
Yes, and that war is for ONE season. The Reds are making a mistake, but I guess some need to learn that the hard way.
Dock_Elvis
What future have they sacrificed…they havent dealt any major prospects and their minor league core hasnt even arrived. They can use these guys to deal at the deadline too! Instead of just sitting pat until 2020…they made some very smart moves to get better in 2019 without bogging down future payroll. They were the #7 offense in baseball LAST SEASON…and have done nothing but improve over the winter.
EndinStealth
They have a good offense mostly because of the park they play half their games in. Look I get it Reds fans need something anything to be excited about. So why not this. Saying they got guys they can flip at the deadline is dumb. No way they get back what they gave up. At the very best the Reds look like a 3rd place team. If they shock the world then it will be worth it. But I dont see anyway the players they traded away wont haunt them at least a little. Better to have these young guys than retreads that will be there for only one year.
Saint Chris
Everyone seems terribly upset about losing Shed Long, the same Shed Long that is defensively challenged–his scouting report literally says he has “clunky feet”– and is currently blocked by at least two players in the Reds organization.
Saint Chris
The Reds had zero starting pitching last year save for Luis Castillo. If not trade a few redundant lower-level prospects what else were they supposed to do? Sign Keuchel, Happ, and Morton for a total of 50-60m a year? That’s both not smart and out of their price range.
sixpacktwo
Some people disagree on the 4th place team now. I think with the ‘O’ and better SP they will be fighting for 2nd.
EndinStealth
At the very most the Reds would be third. That’s only if the Cubs, Brewers or Cardinals stumble. All three teams are better than the Reds. The Reds closed the gap, but it’s still there.
pustule bosey
with as many 1 year guys are there, you have to assume that if it doesn’t work out they can flip some of them
stratcrowder
THANK YOU for making sense. Some peeps just don’t get it and think they know MLB better than the pros.
CalcetinesBlancos
If his bat was amazing it would be one thing, but he doesn’t look to be tearing up the minors.
StapVars
Their division (in fact, their whole league) is highly competitive at this point. Look at ATL, WAS, NYM, PHI, CHC, MIL, STL, LAD, and COL (and potentially SD). Every one of these teams is a wild card caliber team. I’m assuming they believe they will be good enough to win their division next year or think they can at least secure a wild card spot and work from there. I don’t have much faith in their odds to make the playoffs, I just don’t think they have good enough hitting and their are so many teams that are better then them.
ksoze
Every bad team is bad until they aren’t. Look, do I think the Reds make the playoffs in 19, no. Do I think they will in 2020, with the RIGHT moves they can be a legit contender, yes. The young players are maturing, the stud prospects are rising to the top of the organization, getting ready to impact the big league roster.
titanic struggle
They have plenty of hitting…it’s been pitching, pitching, pitching that has killed them…
Saint Chris
I disagree that they don’t have enough hitting. I strongly believe, if healthy, they will be one of the best hitting teams in the NL, especially if Puig can handle cf. They are likely to have Jesse Winker–you know, the masher who was the early ROY favorite before he was injured–hitting 7th.
stratcrowder
Andrew Sears….seriously. “I just don’t think they have good enough hitting”?!?!? No, you just don’t think.
redlegcin
With a new manager and pitching and hitting coaches plus a new GM in charge other than Walt Jocketty, the Reds are trying to get out of last place and contend in the NLC.
smrtrtanur
Looks pretty simple to me. They’ve had terrible starting pitching and are trading for better starters instead of paying long-term money on the market. They’ve only given up 3 of their top 15 prospects and the dumpster fire that was Homer Bailey. If they don’t compete, they can flip these guys for prospects later. I think it’s a pretty smart strategy.
Strike Four
Sonny Gray is fine anywhere but Yankee Stadium. He literally shut out the Rangers in Texas, a massively hitter-friendly park, on game 162 to send Oakland to the playoffs in 2014.
baseball-reference.com/boxes/TEX/TEX201409280.shtm…
bigguccisosa300
Cool that’s 4 (four) years ago
dust44
2014….
EndinStealth
Did you really just pull up something 4 years old to support what he will do in 2019?
luclusciano
Most people look at 2018 and assume what he will do in 2019. The fact is, nobody knows.
EndinStealth
True, but 2018 is much more relevant than 2014.
hiflew
Irrelevant is irrelevant. The 2018 season has no more impact on the 2019 season than the 2014 season does. We can guess and project and do all kinds of number wrangling, but when it comes down to it…NO ONE knows how the 2019 season will play out. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
ReverieDays
Trends are a thing man.
iverbure
Sounds like something someone who thinks batting avg is important would say.
hiflew
Yes they are, but they are not an absolute science. They are just a fun guessing game. I liken baseball statistics to psychics. They are fun and enjoyable as long as you realize they are not to be 100% believed as dogma. But once you start thinking an ordinary human being which good observational skills can tell the future, you’ve fallen for the trap.
canocorn
Nobody knows for sure, of course.
Still, show me what a guy has done in the past, and I’ll give you a pretty good idea what he’ll do in the future.
Willy Mays
That’s just wrong. While 2018 is not a perfect predictor of 2019 its surely a better predictor than 2014. As an example in 2015 Matt Harvey had a 271 era and 1.02 whip. Last year he had a 450 era and a 125. whip which do you think is a better predictor of this year.If 2015 is relevant he should be looking at a 25 mill per contract right
Thronson5
I do agree with you guys, he should be fine and I’m actually a fan of the guy, I think he’s one of the better pitchers in baseball. I just know that’s a hitter friendly park and hopefully it doesn’t end up being the another down year for him right before free agency. I hope he can bounce back and get himself paid. Also I like what the Red are trying to do, I know some people question it but at least they are trying to be better. That’s a tough division they are in so not sure how far they can go but I do know they are already better than last year and if they add this guy they’ll be even better.
layventsky
Hitter-friendly GABP may be, but no ballpark is as drastically hitter-friendly as Yankee Stadium.
EndinStealth
Great American Small Park is more hitter friendly than Yankee Stadium.
todd76
Reds trade a few used golf balls, and a bag of chips for Gray.
canocorn
More details, please.
Chippo’s? Cow chips? Caesar’s chips?
Newspeaks
I agree. It is unfortunate for him. I think he needs to get to the west coast. None of the NL Central parks are going to compliment him very much.
spudchukar
Obviously, you haven’t been to St. Louis.
Newspeaks
I havent. But its on my to do list.
pustule bosey
i was going to when i was in town but what they charge for tickets was outrageous compared to what I am used to….
todd76
A top prospect alone would be a overpay for Gray let alone adding a draft pick too.
nowheretogobutup
I hope the Reds don’t cave in and give up those two top prospects, for a one yr rental it doesn’t make sense.
sixpacktwo
They will not, Williams is not a fool.
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
The reds were as bad as their record.. they swept the brewers and Cubs. Not an easy thing to do.
rdsfan05
I wonder if the reds forgot who they drafted in 2016 in the same spot they are about to trade away the guy the Yankees wanted first Taylor Trammell
petfoodfella
It is, but he doesn’t really have a say in going there. He would in an extension obviously.
pustule bosey
yeah, i think he would be a much better bounceback candidate if the giants would have been able to work something out. wish him luck but am skeptical of how he will do in Cincinnati
coocoo
He will sign with Milwaukee
ASapsFables
Since Gray’s not a free agent yet that will have to wait until next offseason.
mkeyankee
No, he should not. He should follow Derek Johnson to cincinatti and be part of ownership’s effort to boost attendance to not violate their loan terms. Cin is going to be a team to watch at the trade deadline, so many veteran expiring contracts.
Chicks Dig the Longball
I don’t think you know what’s going on here.
dhud
Dumb.
Juggy
Please end this painful situation
slpdajab55
Agreed .. Sonny Gray and the dreadful Antonio Brown saga ..
Core4
This would be Cherry on top to a awesome off-season by yanks. Giving there system a nice little boost for Gray, after taking care of business with the ML club already. Love my yanks !
mikeyst13
Better not be expecting too much of a boost. He’s not going to get a huge return.
Core4
Shed Long and Stephenson alone would be a good get for Gray. All the prospects we gave up for Gray haven’t amounted to squat and both Long and Stephenson still have there prospect appeal , and would help get some prospect position player depth back am9ng the ranks, as the yanks have a pitching heavy prospect load right now. Stephenson has a cannon for a arm and is big guy with a bit of pop and still upside, why Long gives us a well rounded player who can do a bit of everything , and hasent really disappointed on his climb thru the ranks, and don’t hurt he hits lefty,
The reason this team turned around so quickly from a old broken down team that had to many underachieving big contracts to a 100win team was a infusion of young legit prospects. We’ve used the lot well in recent yrs, time to build it upa bit again.
nowheretogobutup
Never give those two up for Gray bad move for the Reds, for a one yr. rental?
sixpacktwo
They will not. The yanks were looking at either/or Williams would be stupid to trade those two for grey and he is not stupid.
Knowthemarket
I don’t know what you’re expecting in return for Gray but if I were to guess by inferring tone to your post you are going to be dissapointed.
citizen
How is elsbury working out for you?
WolfCola
Terrible, but what exactly does he have to do with Sonny Gray?
gmenfan
Yankees fans attach Ellsbury to nearly every trade they propose. Wouldn’t be shocked to hear a “Gray and Ellsbury for the Reds #3rd, 7th and 10th ranked prospects” proposal.
jschnitzler23
Lazy take.
KnicksFanCavsFan
No one would say such nonsense…. Except you of course.
Baller4mlb
Looks like Cincy are en route to building another big red machine from their rotation this season. They could turn some heads and surprise some folks in 2019. I’m pulling for them. The Central is officially stacked.
ffjsisk
That’s pretty optimistic
lowtalker1
Big red machine lasted a decade
This, whatever it is, will last one season and set them back a few years
ASapsFables
Yes. Additionally, the Big Red Machine was far more known for their elite positional players and not as much regarding their starting rotation
Baller4mlb
Yes that is factual. But what I said was through their rotation. So by way of their pitching it’ll be a machine.
BrewCrew1302
reds pitching still does not scare me. Their hitting sure does though. Good lineup
bigkempin
Since when is a DeSclafani/Castillo/Roark/Wood/and possibly Gray….a “machine” of a rotation? The reds have a ton of mid-back rotation arms and not much else.
Core4
I’d say. When a hitter like Jesse Winker is ready and u can’t really find a spot for him, tells ya all u need to know
bledrules
He’ll be an everyday player at one of the corners If Schebler is still here he platoons with Kemp in the other corner
cincyredlegs3219
I completely agree with you’re assessment, however if you let the Reds fan in me be optimistic I would say Castillo has ace POTENTIAL. If Disco is healthy and performs up to standards he is also a solid number 2.
I know it’s a long shot but it’s been a long 5 years. Let us hope.
slowcurve
More like a broken McDonalds ice cream machine.
Dbird777
More than happy to say that the two more games we won vs the Cubs than the Brewers contributed to your narrow division title last season.
lowtalker1
Fully agree bird
dust44
So u got Puig in CF?
ken48tribe
Even without Gray, the Reds starting rotation is light years better than last year. But-way more is needed to realistically compete in NL Central.
diehardcubfan 2
I try not to feed the trolls. Lol
sixpacktwo
As of right now, Schebler goes to CF as he catches those he gets too.
gmenfan
More like a Middling Red Machine.
fasbal1
Even with a pick up of Gray they are 3rd or 4th best starting staff in the Central.
captainchaos55
Yes but now rank offense…. put the 2 together now and it sure brings things closer. I’ll but this line up against anyone’s and take my chances…especially at home.
Saint Chris
Yep. People are sleeping on this lineup, especially if Puig can capably handle cf.
outinleftfield
More likely they picked up a bunch of fading veterans that will be flipped for prospects in July when they are 10 games out.
Willy Mays
Big red machine. Hahaha. Joe Morgan Johnny Bench Tony Perez. Pete Rose George Foster.That team had 3 hall of famers and a 4th who has the most hits in baseball history but is banned from the hall of fame.How is this anything like the big red machine
Willy Mays
Thats just wrong. While 2018 is not a perfect predictor of 2019 its surely a better predictor than 2014. As an example in 2015 Matt Harvey had a 271 era and 1.02 whip. Last year he had a 450 era and a 125. whip which do you think is a better predictor of this year.If 2015 is relevant he should be looking at a 25mill per contract right
redsfan54
Nooooooo
HalosHeavenJJ
Going from one bandbox to another doesn’t seem like the best move for him, but it’s a trade so this is all about the best move for the Yankees.
Jean Matrac
Was Gray’s problem the ballpark or the pressure of playing in NY? It’s too small a sample to be of much worth, but Gray did have 1 start at GABP. He went 7 2/3 and gave up 2 runs on 5 hits, with 1 BB and 4 SOs. Reds must be banking on it being the pressure.
CrewOBrews
Does one even count as a sample size?
Jean Matrac
Yes it does snarky. If your team brought in a pitcher and he went 7 2/3 with a 2.35 ERA, a .0783 WHIP, and gave up zero HRs in a bandbox, I suppose you wouldn’t be encouraged.
I also said: “It’s too small a sample to be of much worth…”
HalosHeavenJJ
It was the bandbox. Look at his starts outside the little league sized field in NY and he looks much better.
Teeny, tiny right field, warm, humid air, there are several HRs a year hit there that would be routine outs in every other stadium save maybe Fenway.
jmi1950
Fenway has a very large RF unless you hit it within 5 ft of the foul line.
outinleftfield
Look at Gray’s career splits home and away. He doesn’t pitch well at home. Never has.
hockeyjohn
Gray’s problem is that he isn’t very good anymore.
xabial
Called it!! Reds’ Pitching Coach is the key.
Steven Chinwood
There’s been multiple articles written for weeks about the Reds being a possibilty in a trade. So give it a rest already!
Cashford64
Not to mention that it hasn’t even happened yet
thegreatcerealfamine
You said a week ago it was gonna be for Taylor Trammell..smh
xabial
No, Sherman said Yanks asked for Trammell.
I was facetious, and know you read that article. Whatever Gray ultimately ends up getting traded for — if the Reds— won’t be Taylor Trammell..smh. Cmon cereal, You’re supposed to be on my side!
Here’s the article that was the source of my joke:
nypost.com/2018/12/10/yankees-asked-for-stud-reds-…
We had a good laugh about that.
thegreatcerealfamine
That link must’ve been taken down. It’s all good though.
fathead
just came here to see a Yankee fan say they are getting Senzel
JayRyder
RED$. Wild Card. . . Go Big or Go Home.
go_jays_go
as crazy as it sounds, you’re absolutely right. (almost) everything the Reds have picked up are set to be free agents after 2019. if it works, then great. if it doesn’t, then blow it up and begin a rebuild for 2020 and beyond. I don’t necessarily see the Reds taking the division, but I can definitely see them challenging for a WC spot.
bencole
I’ll go, 79-83
nowheretogobutup
I’d say your prediction of 79 W’s is very close, certainly not a WC team even with Gray
daved
Just yesterday, on this site, the story stated Reds were not a team involved.
puddles
They only report what the rumors are. Not their fault if one of the bigger writers got it wrong.
RedRooster
But it is their fault if they continue to report things from that writer afterwards.
cincyredlegs3219
I’d say don’t come to a site with “rumor” in the title if you only want facts.
Vanilla Good
Ah you only want the rumors that are facts, huh?
Begamin
if they stopped mentioning every report from every reporter who was wrong once there would be nothing to report
canocorn
RedRoaster;
So if Einstein’s first-ever theory proved wrong, you’d throw out his Theory of Relativity along with everything else he ever thought?
johnrealtime
it is possible that they weren’t involved yesterday but became involved today
smrtrtanur
You are right. If I were you, I’d sue to get your money back.
Knowthemarket
Yesterday? There article from 22 hours ago does in fact list the Reds as a potential landing spot.
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/01/yankees-trade-rumors-so…
They posted a statement from Heyman later that he wasn’t a little after that so all they did was post about the info they got from a media source and now they are doing it again.
Maybe MLBtraderumors isn’t for you.
dhud
*shakes fist at cloud
andrewgauldin
Cincy already has a decent bullpen, and abover average offense. Now they’re putting together a decent rotation filled with a bunch of #3’s and #4’s. I really wouldn’t be surprised if the cubs or brewers are unable to make the playoffs. National league is extremely deep this year.
rdsfan05
This trade makes no sense unless they think Luis Castillo is going to turn into the one this year (unlikely tho)
CrewOBrews
… Neo?
ksoze
Follow the white rabbit
canocorn
Feed your head.
titanic struggle
He was impressive the last month and a half of last season. He just needs 3 be more consistent.
Chicks Dig the Longball
A pretty decent rotation doesn’t have a bunch of 3’s and 4’s. That’s the exact opposite of a decent rotation. Reds have 3 3’s in Wood, Castillo, Roark. A 5 in DeSclafani, and are looking for a 5 with the chance of being a 3 in Gray. That below average at best.
StapVars
Roark is a 2
seth3120
Roark is not a 2. Not even close. He might be the Reds number 2 but that doesn’t change the fact that a legit contender spent big money to sign the best free agent starter and found Roark expendable and moved him for a mere top 20 team prospect. He’s depth or and innings eater a 4 maybe. A 5 or a long reliever on a true contender
Android Dawesome
3+3+3+5+5=3.8. That’s almost the definition of average
Chicks Dig the Longball
Andriod… your system values the rotation backwards, so you would want the smallest number possible so a 3.8 is below average.
Look at it like this though:
Average rotation – Reds rotation
1 – 3
2 – 3
3 – 3
4 – 5
5 – 5
In every one of those you are below average or average. None of them are above average so I don’t know how you could call it a decent rotation?
captainchaos55
Compare that to 5+5+5+5+5= average of 5. So it is improved with a top tier offense. Let’s see how it plays out. We all can sit here now and say this or that. Truth is we all are clueless…that’s why they play the games.
sixpacktwo
If the Reds go with starting a RP and then put in the starter 4 2/4 can go a long way.
Saint Chris
The Brewers are primed to fall in the division. They have no middle infield and shaky starting pitching. Reds are going to make it interesting, but I still think the Cards and Cubs are the cream of the division.
throwinched10
Wonder who they give up…
rdsfan05
I like the giants or A’s scenario Bc they have a big ball park and sonny gray seems to thrive in big ball parks
Jean Matrac
A’s maybe, but going to the Giant’s is highly unlikely. The Giants aren’t going to trade any of their thin number of prospects, and I don’t see any of the MLB guys being a fit. I doubt the Giants trade either Smith or Watson, for him, nor do I see any positional guys going. Belt makes the most sense for NY, but no way they give up Belt for Gray.
fred-3
when the Cubs finish in fourth >>>>>
spudchukar
It could happen, but so could 3 other teams in the NL Central. Doubtful the Cards, too much pitching. But the Pirates are improved, just by being healthy, Brewers proved their potency in 2018, and I agree a wild Card team from the Central will be tough, especially with the weaker bottoms of the East and West.
fred-3
look at the 2 teams’ line-ups. Reds have the better line-up and bullpen, at least on paper.
StapVars
The Pirates will finish last this year in the NL Central. The Reds have made some serious upgrades. While not enough to push them to a divisional title in 2019, they could make a run for a wild card spot. With their young core and cheap payroll, I could see them winning the division in the near future.
ksoze
East is weak, no wild card team coming out of it
bkbk
This one gonna end with a mystery team. Count on it.
kenly0
I don’t understand why the Reds are trading for all these guys who will be free agents after next year. Braves, Mets, Nats, Phillies, Cubs, Brewers, Cards, Dodgers, and Rockies are still better than them. And, possibly Pirates, Giants, and D-backs. The Reds will fall short next year and all this does is set them back even more before they can actually contend.
Marytown1
Thank you for stating this what I have been wondering this whole time. Thought there must be something I was missing.
spudchukar
They have to do something for the fan base. Their attendance has been pitiful. They can hit, OK defense, and might challenge .500, and hopefully put some butts in the seats.
Steven Chinwood
I wouldn’t say the Mets are better.
bencole
I’d suggest the front office guys realize they’re out if they don’t win this year, and so they’re going for it even if it isn’t smart.
mkeyankee
The Red Birds have attendance and cash flow provisions in their existing loan agreements that they are in danger of violating and need to boost attendance in 2019.
southbeachbully
Doesn’t that depend on who and what they give up? If all of these players are on 1 year deals then it means it won’t effect future payroll. In addition, if these players still have value then they can easily be flipped at the trade deadline even if it’s for non top 100 prospects. It might well be half-a$$ed attempt to compete but it at lease gives the Cincy fans reason to at least be engaged this season.
Chicks Dig the Longball
They are acquiring pieces with the hopes of seeing what they have at the end of the year and extending the ones they like. Instead of handcuffing them with a multi-year deal that could screw them over for several years, they are effectively giving up very little and acquiring lottery tickets that will at least make a semi competitive team. They haven’t exactly parted with a big prospect outside of Jeter Downs who doesn’t really have a spot in the foreseeable future, and managed to dump Homer Bailey’s contract. They also have the ability to flip a guy at the trade deadline if they aren’t competing for more than what they gave up.
Saint Chris
@Chicks Dig the Longball
Completely agreed. It’s also worth pointing out that if any of these one-year players has a big year they can be tagged with the qualifying offer for draft compensation.
The Reds had to improve their pitching. It was either make these trades or go and try to sign Keuchel, Morton, and Happ for a total of $50-$60m a year, moves that are both risky and expensive.
mrkinsm
Because they had less than 20K attending home games and less than 40K viewing games on the television. They should be scared of losing an entire generation of fans to the new MLS team. They may be too incompetent to trade for pieces under team control past this season.
bourbon
Or, they’d rather not pay the additional prospect cost of acquiring long term pieces.
If they trade for a Kluber type, Cincy has to give future core players. These rentals are not setting the rebuild back at all.
mrkinsm
They also aren’t helping the Reds become a successful winning ballclub.
RedRooster
To be fair they haven’t given up any truly premium prospects this offseason and most of the one-year guys they acquired plus the ones they already had going into the offseason like Scooter Gennett should have some trade value come the deadline so if (when) the Reds are out of it at the deadline they will be able to flip those guys. But knowing the Reds they will probably keep them because “You have to put a good product on the field” or “to gain the inside track to signing them” or some other b.s. reason like that.
bhambrave
I think They’re expecting to trade some of these guys at the deadline to kick off their rebuild. Trading two top-ten guys and a competitive pick (if that’s the deal) seems ass-backwards though.
sixpacktwo
They have their core signed and give their young another year while competing.
pinballwizard1969
If indeed it is the Reds I could see the Yankees looking at Gutierrez or Mella and maybe a lower lever prospect Longhi. Fair warning though, my trade suggestions generally stink.
earmbrister
Better not be Gut, Mella at best. It’s one year of a guy looking to bounce back.
RePete
The Reds were often down 3-0 after the first inning last year, and often playing from behind. If they have just an average rotation, that can keep them close, and get to what was a very solid bullpen, they will be fun to watch.
Nick Papajorgio
Yanks should trade Gray for Votto.
Colorado Red
175 Mil left on his contract.
Sure you can have him
JCM11
132 if you buy out his last year.
earmbrister
Marty and Thom Brenneman, is that you? All Votto does is rake, year in, year out. In a “down” year like 2018 he still had an OPS+ of 125. The prior three years were 174, 160, and 167. He’ll work on his power this offseason, and he’ll bounce back.
Votto is the ultimate professional. Don’t know what you two are thinking.
bencole
Not a fan of these two teams… and Votto is still a great hitter, bug you absolutely trade that contract if you can. His age 35-38 seasons are still not what you want to pay that money for
BartoloHRball
He has a full NTC and is on record saying he has zero interest in being traded. Dude takes and loves CIN, so I highly doubt he every plays for another team.
Nick Papajorgio
Gray pitched to a 3.17 ERA and over a K per inning on the road last year. Put him in the NL, that ERA drops down to 2.17z. He’s definitely worth Votto and a #1 prospect.
Priggs89
He also had a 6.41 ERA against teams with a winning record. I wouldn’t get your hopes up too high.
Nick Papajorgio
All AL teams and mostly at home. Thanks for proving my point.
Priggs89
Ah, ok. He can pitch against bad teams and the NL. Got it now. You’re right, that’s absolutely worth a #1 prospect.
bencole
Ignore it, this guy’s a troll, no one could really think this
BrewCrew1302
“worth votto and a #1 prospect” lmao this guy
Dbird777
I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt that that was tongue-in-cheek lol. But if he’s a Yankees fan, that would make me less hopeful 😉
mlb1225
Lmao, A: Votto has a no trade clause and wants to stay in Cin. B: You do realize that going by park factors, Great American Ball Park is much more hitter friendly than Yankee Stadium, right? C: Gray has one year left of control left. The only way they could get Votto+ is if Gray had pitched like a Cy Young candidate last season with 3+ years remaining.
mikeyst13
Average ERA in the AL last year was 4.27 and in the NL was 4.02 but you’re gonna just assume a full point drop by switching leagues? Especially into a division with some of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball?
Bruin1012
I don’t know why people always bring up Votto. Even if Cinci wanted to trade him Votto has full no trade and by all accounts likes it Cinci. He seems like a guy that doesn’t want the spotlight so he would hate NY, Bos, LA. He isn’t going anywhere.
bencole
They’re just arguing trade values more than actual trades. I believe Votto to still be really good and Gray is not but as Cincy you have to think about such a trade just to lose the end of that contract. Obviously wouldn’t make sense if you’re Cincy and your going for it, but let’s face it, Cincy going for it doesn’t make any sense.
titanic struggle
Hahahaa!! No.
Slice of life
@fathead As a Yankee fan I’m going to say that The Reds need to give up Senzel for Gray. Lol How’s that ? Did I do good? Dopey
zacbinks
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds traded the Yankees Tanner Roark to get him. Even though C.C. Sabathia is cleared to pitch they’ll still need pitching. Roark isn’t spectacular but he’s stable and could pitch anywhere. He’d at least get them through the regular season. Alex Wood is too high of a price to pay, which is why I’m saying Tanner Roark.
If the Reds traded Roark and a low ranked prospect, I don’t see any other team reaching higher unless they want to overpay on Sonny Gray.
ShieldF123
Yanks are not looking to add a pitcher with a worse HR/9 than Even Gray has. Sorry bud you’re dead wrong.
Yankeepatriot
I called it yesterday ! Not expecting much in return but nobody is if they are being honest
brownbomber
Nice to see a team trying to better themselves rather than tanking like so many teams did last year.
mkeyankee
“Progress” and “Sonny Gray” should not be used in the same sentence.
batty
These moves for 1 year players seem like an ownership that wants to increase attendance. That’s understandable, but also somewhat of a chancy way of going about it. What happens if Cincy doesn’t really improve much in the standings and then, in 2020, revert right back to what they have been the past several seasons?
I’ve always thought of 1 years rentals, for the most part, as players to put a team over the top. Much like mid season trades for players on expiring contracts. If Gray is acquired by the reds, that would make 5 such contracts/players. That’s a possible 5 that would then need to be filled, again, after the 2019 season. It just doesn’t feel like smart business tactics.
brownbomber
I believe making an effort to put a competitive team on the field every year is good for fans and business.
batty
Yes, but through development and trades that net long term pieces. Not a slew of 1 year expiring contracts.
JCM11
Long term pieces would cost the Reds their best prospects. They can easily recoup the prospects they gave up and then some by dealing Puig and Wood at the deadline.
stymeedone
plus it gives the prospects another year of development time.
Bdonnell
And the guys that have been traded by the Reds so far were behind higher ranked prospects at their position.
Dbird777
We’ve got a lot of money coming off the books next year, so it’s expected we’ll do some serious FA shopping after this season’s over.
mrkinsm
Reds and FA shopping don’t go hand in hand. The largest FA contract was Coco Cordero .
Dbird777
We’re upping our payroll 30 mil this year, so that portends good things.
Chicks Dig the Longball
You said it yourself, they could do it again next year. They are avoiding financially crippling themselves in favor of flexibility. Like a guy for the future, they can extend him or sign him next offseason. Don’t like him, try to flip him at the deadline. I would be acquiring as many 1 year deal guys as I can.
titanic struggle
That’s exactly what they’re doing, and why not? It beats sitting on your hands waiting for prospects to develop since they haven’t been able to sign FA because of financial constraints. I know I’ll be at the BP more next year!!
southbeachbully
As long as they aren’t blocking a mlb ready prospect and the commitment doesn’t last past 2019 then what’s the downside on some of these 1 year rentals? As long as “real prospects” aren’t be used to get him there’s little downside.
sixpacktwo
Yep and the players are playing for the next contract.
RePete
Worst case, they offer Puig, Wood, and Gennett QO’s at the end of the year, and get draft picks.
steelerbravenation
Throw Gray into that mix as well if he bounces back which in the NL is a strong possibility
canocorn
Yes. Gray pitching for NYY is like putting a motorcycle engine in a Peterbilt.
Judge Judy
Gray for Scooter swap. Get it done, Cash
Yankeepatriot
We have DJ though
Adam6710
Three way deal:
Reds get Gray & Hicks
Indians get Andujar & Scooter
Yanks get Kluber
Ok, i gotta go, my bus is leaving.
southbeachbully
So the Yanks would open up holes in CF and 3B? No.
RedRooster
They already have a hole at 3B
southbeachbully
Yes they do. He hit 47 dbls and 27 hrs in his rookie season and when Boone posts the lineup he has the “3B” next to his name if that helps you.
RedRooster
He’ll be a full time 1B or DH by the end of the 2019 season. Book it.
slider32
Really!!! One of the top rookies last year.
CrewOBrews
*an a hole at 3b
RedRooster
Him being one of the top rookies last year was due to his bat. He’ll still be able to do that as a DH.
StapVars
Indians would not agree. Andujar’s defense is mediocre at best and Klube ris a Cy Young candidate.
Adam6710
I know it’s a crazy trade that wouldn’t happen. That’s why I caught the bus.
steelerbravenation
Probably a little yellow one with a proposal like that
Adam6710
Yes, steeler, thanks for pointing out the obvious, and for clarifying exactly what I meant. Idiot.
Core4
With Romine a FA after this yr,Stephenson makes sense. Breaux and Seigler are aways off, and Stephenson is a pretty good defensive catcher with rocket arm. Long reminds me of Bip Roberts type of prospect
southbeachbully
Or the Yanks can just resign Romine if he has another solid season like last year.
earmbrister
Stephenson makes sense if your a NYY fan. No way they’re giving up their # 6 prospect for a year of Gray. Nor their # 7 prospect in Long.
Think Mella at # 11. Someone (or two) outside the top 10 is more likely.
southbeachbully
Can we agree that organizational rankings is relative to how good or bad the organization is? Yanks traded away Sheffield, Swanson and Williams. Sheff was our #1 but the other two weren’t even in our top 15 when traded. They immediately became 3 of Seattle’s top 12 immediately after the trade. If the Reds #8 but he’s rated as a B-/C prospect then he could be in play.
earmbrister
I agree that organizational rankings are relative. However, the Reds have a top 5 farm system. The NYY farm system is also quite strong. I’d look at the individual players ratings. I’m certainly not parting easily with a “60” player such as Senzel, Trammel, or Greene. I’m not parting with a 55 or 50 player for one year of Gray. That takes you to the Reds highest rated 45 player: Mella at # 11. I’d consider that a fair trade. The NYY have a bunch of 55 and 50 players through their # 12 prospect, for reference.
rdsfan05
If the reds make the trade that Jon heyman is proposing with shed long or tyler Stephenson and a draft pick I will probably give up on the reds front office and they will be out the door fast as hell
JCM11
The Reds have a million 2B in their system with Senzel or India likely to be the everyday 2B after Scooter leaves. Stephenson would be an overpay unless it was Robert Stephenson lol.
Saint Chris
Shed Long is challenged defensively and blocked by at least two players in the organization. It is also possible Scooter resigns.
Colorado Red
Why do the Reds want him anyway?
He was terrible last year, and a 1 year rental.
Just way NO
Come on SD, or ATL make a good offer.
southbeachbully
So you’re logic is he was “bad” in 2018 but the Braves and Padres should get him tho?
Dbird777
Shed, Stevenson AND a comp pick? I’d tell the Yankees to take a f***ing hike. I’d give up Long, but not Stevenson and sure not the comp pick.
They can choose another prospect that’s NOT in our top 10
mikeyst13
It doesn’t say they’re suggesting sending all 3, just that those are names that have come up.
ctguy
“our” top 10 ???
Nick Papajorgio
Now ppl just hating on Gray cuz he’s white. He’d light up the NL. It’s proven that AL pitchers do much better in the NL. Some ppl are just too soft for Yankees stadium.
mlb1225
What does his race have to do with this? Just because a player moves from big market to small market doesn’t mean a pitcher goes from mid-to-back end rotation piece to #2 starter to ace.
terror661
Very happy Giants nor Padres made this move.
KenJorB
He would be a good fit for the Giants. Besides the big ball park, they have Curt Young who was his pitching coach during his best years with the A’s. The problem they really don’t have tradeable assets.
sportsnut969
Sonny Gray in the Reds ball park the Home Runs should be flying out of the ballpark.
ground ball pitchers should be what the Reds should be looking at for that type of return.
Specially when you are talking a guy that has been garage as of late and so bad he had to be sent to the bullpen.
if the Reds make this deal for the type of prospects rumored I hope it works out.
Rowsdower
Shed Long, comp pick, and Matt Kemp for Clint Frazier and Gray. Let’s rip
Dbird777
I don’t think the Yankees have a place for Kemp in the OF or DH. And that year long concussion thing is far more worrisome than Senzel’s.
oaklandfan22
Sort’ve wanted Sonny back on the A’s, but happy he’s getting another opportunity with another club.
queensburykid
Finally, the Reds spend some money and use its proscepts to more competitive. Vatto must be happy. He has some talent around him. Kemp can still, and Puig is an untapped high strung talent. For way too long, the Reds have no serious attempts to be contending.
R.D.
Who names their child Shed
Rowsdower
His parents, Carport and Garage Long
Iron Horse
I swear on my life, I wrote the same thing and deleted my post when I saw yours. Lol. Nice.
Dbird777
I want to know who names their child Wendell. Especially with a last name like Smallwood.
Jean Matrac
Nickname? Mitch Haniger is called The Shed, because he has all the tools.
mrkinsm
Shedric Sr.
southbeachbully
Rusty Kuntz says hi.
MahatmaGagne
Funny thread at least lol damn clowns
canocorn
RD;
Nice aquarium though.
trace
What DH’s can the Reds part with? Seems the Yankees love them DH’s.
bigturtlemachine
That would be Matt Kemp, not that I think that will happen.
RedRooster
They have Kemp and Winker
southbeachbully
Far as I know Stanton is their only DH and that’s because Judge plays his position.
costanza
I don’t understand why people are so concerned with the ballpark he pitches in. Gray had a HR/9 of 1.0 last year. For comparison, Scherzer’s was 0.9 and Verlander’s was 1.2. His issue isn’t homeruns, far more of his runs came from nibbling leading to walks and then giving up base hits. His problem could have been the pressure of pitching in front of the NY crowd, but it definitely wasn’t the propensity of Yankee Stadium to yield homers.
xabial
Sonny Gray gave up 14 homers — 11 at Yankee Stadium.
BrewCrew1302
Thanks man!!
Jean Matrac
Yankee Stadium is somewhat the anomaly. His HR/9 there is 1.8. It’s the same at CHW, and his worst is at NYM where it’s 2.25,
But it’s significantly lower pretty much everywhere else. It’s 0.8 in 45 IP in Tor., 0.9 in 29 IP in Cle., 0.7 in 38 1/3 IP in Bal., 0.8 in 21 1/3 IP in Hou., and 0.5 in 49 1/3 IP in Tex. Plus, in his 30 2/3 IP in LAA he has yet to give up a HR.
southbeachbully
You’re completely missing his point. Solo homers don’t hurt as much as ones with ROB and most of those came after allowing a walking guys. He seems to just get nervous in YS. I mean, it’s quite clear.
@ YS- 59 IP- 78 hits, 35 BB vs 45 KO
Away- 71 IP- 60 hits, 22 BB vs 71 KO
When we say he struggles at home people instinctively think we’re talking about YS dimensions but I really think he simply has the yips at home and isn’t comfortable for whatever reason. Look at his H/9 at YS. That has little to do with dimensions. He seems much more aggressive and comfortable on the road.
Ryan W
Why not
bobtillman
Unbelievable amount of ink for a 4th starter. A 4th starter only on a non-competitive team at that. I can see Gray improving in the NL (most would) but not in the Great American Smallpark.
If the Reds give up anything but a #20-30 ranked prospect in their very decent system, they’re nuts……
southbeachbully
You DO realize how difficult it is to simply get a prospect to be a serviceable #4 or #5 right?
RedRooster
You DO realize that Gray is one year out from free agency right?
zedisdead
The Reds have nothing to lose with the one year rental strategy. If they are out of it at the deadline, they can trade Gray, Wood, Roark, Puig, Kemp ( they may trade him now to an AL club. They would have to pick up quite a bit of salary to do it, say $12 mil of $20 owed). Scooter is also in his walk year. They can trade all of them and gain similar (if not better) prospects than they gave up. If there in it at the deadline, they add. All the while not taking on huge multi- year commitments that hamstring small market clubs. They also retain all their best prospects (Senzel, Trammel, Greene etc…). They would love to have Kluber, but not for Senzel & Tranmel so I think they finally decided to move on. I would be surprised if they traded Shed Long, although they do have quite a few infield prospects. I don’t think Christensen has shown much to date in the minors, but catcher is such a premium these days. No way they give them both..,
bballaddict
Not a Cincy Fan but I agree with your assessment. The franchise has essentially been stagnant for 20 years. Absolutely positive they won’t be any worse off by trying to shake things up.
dematteo1982
Sometimes a change of scenery is all a player needs. Gray obviously wasn’t able to handle New York (otherwise I’d want the Mets to be involved..as Gray is much better than Vargas) I like the move for Cincinnati,not so much for Gray. Great American Ballpark? is more hitter friendly. San Diego would have been better for Gray to re-establisg his value heading into free agency. All in all a good move for the Reds, depending on the assets given up. Once that information is known, there will be a better understanding of who initially won the trade.Regardless, Cincy had vastly improved from a year ago. Time will tell.
los_leebos
This has got Mat Latos written all over it…
mrkinsm
? Reds are trading a top 100 prospect equivalent of Alonso for a young starter with team control? How so?
Ryan W
Don’t forget they gave up Volquez, who became an all-star, Boxberger, a closer, and Grandal, one of the premier hitting catchers.
There is no comparison to that trade.
earmbrister
Volquez didn’t “become” an All Star, he was an AS in 2008 (only) and the Reds traded him after the 2011 season. For reference, he had an ERA+ of 69 (appropriate?) in 2011. Boxberger has come down to earth after a stellar 2015 season, and is an average closer currently. Grandal, I wouldn’t call him premier, but he did cash in on a one year deal with the Brewers after one very good year with the LAD.
In return, the Reds got Latos, who was a stud for them for all 3 years that he was there. And then they flipped him for DeSclafani, who gave them an average year and an above average year before getting hurt. Latos, was awful after leaving the Reds and is out of MLB. Much like the current Reds, the Reds were hurting for starting pitching before Latos arrived.
JCM11
Gray is going to go 14-4 with a 3.48 era in 200+ innings for the Reds?
RedRooster
I think the Yankees were “close” to dealing him? That’s supposed to mean it happens within 24 hours.
Munsonmanor4
So, trading for a bunch of one year rentals to plug your holes just to have to refill them yet again next year? Even if all of these guys are healthy and have bounce back/good years, they will price themselves out of Cincinnati and go elsewhere. On top of that, even with these additions, they’re still looking up to the Cubs, Cardinals, and the Brewers still. Great shot to beat the Pirates. Yay!
Iron Horse
So you’d rather the team trot out Romano, Reed, Mahle, Finnegan? Because that’s who will start in the places of the rentals. The rentals might not be great, but those arms I mentioned definitely won’t be. Don’t you want the team to compete? These rentals give them a chance and the lack of financial commitment mitigates any risk because it’s just 1 year. They’ll have $60 million off the books next year and can play in free agency.
earmbrister
Yeah, I wouldn’t be so sure that they will end up looking up at the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers. The Reds lineup will be way more than solid, the BP is very good, and their biggest weakness, the starting pitching, will go from abysmal to decent. To date, the Reds have not given up much in return for Wood, and Roark. They are both better than the Reds best pitcher, Castillo, last year. Castillo had some growing pains in his second year, but started out poorly and then came on. Disco should be healthy and have more than 115 IP. They don’t have a true ace, but they will have 2 #2 starters, a couple of #3 starters, and a #4 starter..
bencole
Add Gray I’d say you’re at 79 wins
Nick Hogan
Even if they don’t contend this year (which I”m not so sure they should be written off, but I digress) at the end of 2019 Gray, Wood, Roark, Gennett, Puig, and Kemp would all come off the books. That’s like 70M to spend in free agency, assuming that none of them get qualifying offers or sign extensions.
And you shouldn’t forget that the Reds jacked the Brewers pitching coach, who did an awful lot with nothing.
DarkSide830
why the Reds are trading legitimate prospects for rentals is beyond me at this point.
Iron Horse
Because prospects are just that. 2/3 never pan out. Like CCR said, some day never comes.
Chicks Dig the Longball
What legitimate prospect have they traded besides Jeter Downs, who isn’t going to have a spot anytime soon?
ekrog
Huh? You must be Tanner Rainey’s mom.
KD1990
Because they are rentals that are significantly better. Upgrade over current talent…
But the REAL reason that no one is hardly mentioning is that next season we don’t have to resign any of these guys unless we and they want to. (Puig will resign if Turner ward stays) This is buying us time until ALL of our top end prospects across the diamond get promoted!
Outfield? Trammel
infield? Senzel
Pitching? Greene
This is what we are preparing for! A nasty 2020 set of rookies with all these all stars.
And as mentioned by others, there is the future draft and trade compensations we wouldn’t have.
brandons-3
I’m not familiar with the state of the Reds’ organization. What’s the deal with acquiring all the one-year rentals? Are they stopgaps before their higher-end prospects are ready? Is is their front office trying to save their jobs? Seems rather odd a team that didn’t appear close to contention last year makes all these moves to still look up at Chicago and Milwaukee at the least (and likely St. Louis as well).
JCM11
The fans are tired of losing. Their attendance was the lowest in 35 years last season. This is them putting a watchable team on the field without giving up top prospects or breaking the bank in FA.
Kalvoskisausage
I think I see what the Reds are doing at this point. Adding three established middle of the road starters is a far, far cry from the staff full of young pitchers pushed into roles they are not remotely prepared to fill. The offense is not a problem at all. Give the offense adequate pitching and they have s chance in every game against every opponent while the next crop of young pitchers have time to develop before being forced into the majors before they are ready. I am OK with the approach.if it doesn’t work, trade these guys at the deadline and the young players have had year of development.
Corey Quinter
I agree. Even if, let’s say the Reds contend this season and they ultimately do not flip our new additions at the trade deadline, we can still offer them a QO and recoup an early draft pick.
YourDaddy
Wait! What? The Reds were out as of yesterday.
juicemane
St Louis better be ready for 4th or 5th place…
fred-3
Padres have been a franchise for 49. I wonder how many times they’ve finished 4th or 5th? At least 35?
juicemane
We wont be 5th this year buddy…might not be 5th again for a very, very long time. Not something the Cards will be able to say. At the luxury tax limit without a playoff team, that must be a crappy feeling. We wouldn’t know over here, only smart money moves for the past 5 years consistently. How can anyone hate on Myers or Hosmer when Heyward making 23 mil and mike leake making 17 mil…cmon people use your head
Maybe 10 years or longer, we’ll see how far AJ takes us.
fred-3
I just checked. Padres have finished in 4th, 5th, or 6th place in 36 over 49 years.
nowheretogobutup
And? with the best farm system in the majors (Padres) you’ll see a different result then 5th or 4th more like 2nd and WC in 2020.
Priggs89
Not a Cubs fan at all. Don’t like Heyward at all.
Would happily take Heyward and his contract over Hosmer and his every single day of the week. Hosmer isn’t trash, and that contract is embarrassingly bad.
juicemane
You realize we’re gonna be paying him 13 mil the last few years of his contract??? And this is embarrassing?? Heyward is almost making double that….has someone like ben Zobrist getting starts in the OF ahead of him. But you’re such a baseball genius, you would take that contract over Hosmer.
Name all the current 1st basemen who have won a silver slugger and a gold glove??
RedRooster
Hosmer has an opt out after 2022. If he is worth $13m a year at that point Padres will have to either up his pay or lose him.
bencole
St. Louis isn’t finishing 4th or 5th and I’d be surprised if the Reds, even with this add, got within 10 games of them. And I’m not a Cards fan, I’m a Cubs fan. The Reds are probably near .500 at this point
juicemane
The Cardinals are near .500 at this point. So thank you for proving my point.
The cubs are winning 100
The brewers are winning 90
Sorry cards, you’re done.
BrewCrew1302
In other words, “Cashman isnt close to a deal for Gray. Just another slow day this offseason” I just find it funny how the Yankees treat all their players as if they are Jeter quality. Its Gray, just get a deal done.
nowheretogobutup
Totally agree some GM’s love to see their name in print on a daily basis
KnicksFanCavsFan
You really think Cashman is concerned with what the usual fan thinks about a trade? I guarantee you if he thought Gray was “Jeter like” he wouldn’t have told the world his intent to trade him. This idea that GMs are expected to trade players quickly or FA to sign quickly for the enjoyment of baseball rosterbation is hilarious. he’s doing his freaking job. Gray may not be worth much but if im Cash it’s my job to squeeze out every bit of trade value i think i can get.
YourDaddy
Yesterday the Reds were out and the A’s and Padres were the favorites. What are comparable prospects on the A’s and Padres to (C)Stephenson and (IF)Long?
A’s – Neuse, and ???
Padres – Ruiz and Campusano or Allen
slider32
I’d take Allen over any of those players!
bigturtlemachine
It appears that signing Adam Ottavino puts the Yankees over the 40-man roster limit by one. Unless someone is designated for assignment or another such move is made, the return for Sonny Gray will need to be a player not on the Reds’ 40-man. That rules out Keury Mella and Shed Long, both of whom have been rumored to be in the deal. Tyler Stephenson, however, is not on the 40-man. Stephenson would be a fairly steep price to pay.
Dbird777
I’m thinking they give them the extra spot just because it’s the Yankees. I’d really like to include an “/s” there, but MLB’s FO might get ideas.
stratcrowder
Good take, BTM. I’m really hoping for this trade on both sides. For the Reds, I also hope that it’s a trade and extension. He’s got the makeup to anchor that staff and I’m positive he will excel under his old coach at Vanderbilt. For the Yankees, another prospect or two to flip for deadline depth, or simply organizational depth. If he doesn’t get dealt to the Reds, I’m hoping Cash decides to hang on to him.
dobsonel
That is true. Unless Kahle is involved as well in which case that would change things.
Kev2040
Why would they give them those kind of assets for a broken arm about to be released? (If nobody bites they’ll DFA him). I’d rather have seen them overbid the Yanks for Ottavino.
vmmercan 2
Why would they dfa him? He can very well be sp depth instead
dobsonel
The would never DFA him. If they were going to do that they would have just non tendered him earlier in the off-season.
slider32
I think he ends up with the Padres.
dust44
Long>Mateo… Stephenson=Fowler… kaprellian=bust. Pull the trigger Cash.
Rowsdower
Lol it’s not for all those home slice
dust44
They traded Mateo, Fowler and Kaprelian for Gray. Purposed trade in the article says Long and Stephenson and a pick back. Read articles my guy
dhud
“organizations are still discussing different prospects — Shed Long and Tyler Stephenson among them — while a draft pick could also be part of the return” Nowhere in the article does is say “proposed deal of long and Stephenson and a pick”. Those are people being discussed, along with probably a dozen other prospects in the Reds organization. That could mean all of them. That could mean none of them. You may have read the article, but your comprehension sucks my guy
dust44
the expected return for Gray. Long and Stephenson (currently the #6 and #7 prospects in the Reds system per MLB.com) are the prospects most likely to be headed to New York. It’s not a done deal,…. ur comprehension apparently sucks my guy. And incase u were wondering troll, copy and paste from the article.
dhud
Posted 17 hrs after your original post. Retro-fact doesn’t make you right. At the time of your original post, the article then only mentioned them as players being discussed. You can play hind sight all you want, you were still wrong.
dhud
Or, you could’ve gone to the original tweet that this article references: “Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go” *copy and paste from the tweet* ONE of MAY go… so…you’re still wrong. Based on your reading comprehension skills tho, I’m guessing independent research is way out of the picture
outinleftfield
Now it says Long and the draft pick as the total package.
DarkSide830
shed long is not better than Jorge Mateo
dust44
Mateo is all speed.. Long is a lefty bat who can field his position. I’ve watched Long for a season in Dayton. Dude is way better the Mateo
Yankeepatriot
This might be the most interest in a mediocre pitcher that I have ever seen. No complaints here !
Judge_Smails45
Bumgarner to the Reds. Senzel to the Padres. Bunch of Padres prospects to the Giants
Bruin1012
The Reds aren’t trading Senzel for anyone that they have one year control of.
Adam6710
Where are the Yankees in this deal?
DarkSide830
lol
earmbrister
Probably with the Reds, out of this senseless deal.
Soldierofgod619
Can they deal him today? I want to see another trade
RedRooster
If they’re gonna trade him at all they need to freaking do it today cuz this is getting nauseating.
Thronson5
Couldn’t agree more
Dbird777
“There are other teams still involved.” LOL, They’re not really close to a deal. Wonder how long the Yankees have to get back down to 40
dobsonel
I was just going to ask the same thing. Does anyone know?
DarkSide830
i dont think Ottovino’s deal is official yet, so they are fine until they do so.
Thronson5
This is annoying. We keep hearing he’s about to be traded then we hear how multiple teams are still in on him. This has been going on for a while now. Can’t wait for the guy to be traded just to stop hearing about how close a trade is just for it not to be that close.
Yankeepatriot
The reporting this off season is the worst I’ve ever seen
Senioreditor
I would agree 100%. Too many people chasing too few stories.
warwhatisitgoodfor
Dipoto doing his best to third wheel this one I bet
Philliesfan4life
Not sure why the angels or padres aren’t making a move for him, Put him in a pitchers park and I think he will put up good numbers again.
Mike415
Yankees- Belt
Reds – Gray, Watson
Giants – Senzel
Yankeepatriot
What a horrible trade for the reds lmao
Mike415
Not sure it’s horrible, but maybe too steep. Maybe Giants and/or Yankees kick in a lower level prospect or maybe the reds trade Greene or Trammel instead of Senzel.
Rowsdower
No, it’s terrible.
zacbinks
It’s so bad that I would expect Mike to have some type of learning disorder.
Mike415
1. It’s not nice to say something like that.
2. Everyone may think it was a horrible proposal, but If the reds are dumb enough to give up the 6&7 prospect along with a draft pick for gray, maybe they would have given up their #1 prospect for gray + watson or gray and w smith.
bencole
No, no one is that dumb. Giving up Senzel, get one year of Gray and Tony Watson? No, no one is that dumb.
troll
reds will have a new 5 man wartation
fitsiqis65
I’ll laugh when he has better peripheral numbers on a crap reds team in a band box than cc and happ do.
Cash is a genius!
goldenmisfit
Wow hearing people who know nothing about baseball saying how horrible Sonny Gray is. 4.90 earned run average but away from Yankee Stadium had just ate 2.15 earned run average. Do any of you know it all‘s realize what that means? Apparently not by experts in baseball see that as away from the Bronx sunny is a good picture which is why more than six teams have inquired about him. There are some guys who just cannot deal with the pressures of playing in New York City and sunny is one of those guys. Whoever gets him is getting a picture who will help their rotation regardless what some of these people on this board who obviously need to get drug tested think
Bruin1012
Sonny Gray isn’t horrible but he did have a poor year and only has one more year of control left. That all leads up to not being very valuable. The Yanks will probably get a couple prospects in 15 to 30 range from the Reds if he is traded there.
YourDaddy
In the Bronx he had a 6.98 ERA. He was horrible. On the road he had a 3.17 ERA, not 2.15. Good, but all starting pitchers have to pitch at home too.
baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grays…
He has always been bad at home. 2018 was exceptionally bad.
baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grays…
Gray has a 4.53 ERA the past 3 years. That is not good.
Ichiro51
Sonny gray for Joey Votto. Straight up and Reds pay off the rest of Votto salary.
Ichiro51
Or Sonny Gray for 3 of their top prospects with Scooter Gennet. Reds pay off the rest of Gennett salary
PinstripedPride
ROFL
GarryHarris
I assume this is in jest… If its Sonny Gray for Joey Votto, the Reds will also be taking Jacoby Ellsbury.
Ichiro51
Come on man. Jacoby is MVP hitter. Hell fit right in with Kemp and Puig! That would be a funny outfield though
GarryHarris
If that OF happens, we gotta give that OF a name.
RedRooster
PSA: Stop mentioning Joey Votto! He has a full NTC that he has already said multiple times he isn’t waiving!
billysbballz
Sauces are telling me Stephenson and a draft pick for Gray!
ekrog
Name your sauces! Or do they need to remain “ananomayse”.
billysbballz
Lol I’m gonna be like some of those twitter sauces and tell you after he signs I’ll give you more info….
billysbballz
Meant after traded!
ekrog
Thanks for “relishing” my joke 🙂
canocorn
Maybe a little too much sauce?
Dbird777
Let me see if I’m doing this right. Sonny for a half-eaten hog dog and a 3 week old small box of popcorn. I’ll even throw in a bottle of store-brand water.
Ichiro51
Deal I’ll take it!
luclusciano
Us the reds #6 and 7 prospects and you got a deal.
ksoze
I don’t get it. Does Gray actually make the Reds better? I’d rather roll the dice with Mahle, who at the age of 23 had an era of 3.38 through the month of June. Granted the rails fell off, but I’d see if he can right the ship in 19.
ksoze
Ok, i totally botched my metaphor, but you still get the point.
Melchez
Sonny Gray trade is getting close…. How long have they been saying this?
Larry Leonardo
Can feel it in my bones. A blockbuster deal is in the works. Yanks have surplus in the pen and in young arms. They can go out and cherry pick a player like Kluber or Bumgarner and give up multiple bodies including Gray. SF needs bodies, Cleveland needs outfielders. Watch and see !
Adam6710
I could see a blockbuster happening, but it’s likely to be a separate deal, not involving Grey.
ullnvrknw
Andujar,Frazier for arenado and Jon gray
mickey802
I think losing Gray is a mistake and as a long loving yankee fan if they don’t upgrade that pitching staff they will once again go out early! They are trying to compensate with the best relief pitching in the game to win games, get a starter
dobsonel
They did upgrade the rotation with Paxton and a full season of Happ.
Sevy, Tanaka, Paxton, Happ, CC
Are way better than the start of last year with
Sevy, Tanaka, Gray, CC, Montgomery
Nick Hogan
Okay, so Heyman’s latest actually says “one of” Long or Stephenson. It doesn’t imply both.
Nick Hogan
And as a Reds fan, I would be fine with one, but not both.
Adam6710
But two prospects total, and also a draft pick. As a Yankee fan, I am happy with that return for what is essentially dead weight.
Nick Hogan
It’s still too much for Gray from the Reds, but if the prospect isn’t Top 20 I can deal. Gray is a huge bounceback candidate. Personally I think the Yankees overplayed their hand by saying he was up for grabs and then filling their rotation and bullpen, so they’re lucky to get anything at all.
Adam6710
They appear to be getting more than you think he’s worth, but you think they overplayed their hand…?
Sounds like they played it perfectly.
Nick Hogan
Yes, it’s a criticism of the Reds leadership to give up too much for him.
Brian Cronin
Yeah, I think they’re slightly misreading Heyman’s tweet. I agree that it’s Long OR Stephenson, plus a pick and plus a lesser prospect. That seems fair enough for the Reds but also a nice haul for the Yankees for a guy they are trying to dump.
Nick Hogan
Agreed. Still think it’s an overpay by the Reds, but if it’s not TWO top 10’s I can deal.
PinstripedPride
I certainly am not going to complain. Its more than what I thought a suitor might pay
kiddhoff
Man, this is like watching paint dry in the rain.
canocorn
… while inhaling the fumes.
ucat2006
I think the Reds have done a good job up to this point. What they don’t need now is another mid-rotation, 1-year rental at the cost of prospects/draft picks. Signing a mid-rotation FA for 1 year would be fine: giving up future pieces is not.
Kevin 28
Wholeheartedly agree. Can’t believe they’d give up multiple top 10 prospects. Grey seems no better than Roark, and they gave up the #25 prospect for him.
Nick Hogan
Gray’s ceiling is much higher than Roark’s, IMO.
Kevin 28
So much higher that you’d trade two top 10s? No. Not even that much higher that you should trade a top 20.
Nick Hogan
Clearly you missed my comment where I said I don’t think that is the plan, or even what Heyman is saying
ekrog
Totally agree. They shouldn’t give up more than a pair of reclamation efforts like Stephenson, Finnegan or Whistler. The Reds are stupid if they give up a legit prospect for a 1-year rental who couldn’t even make a post season roster last year.
Melchez
This trade is drawing out well… At first Yankees fans felt they were getting Scooter Gennet… Then Taylor Trammell… Then they thought they were getting both Stephenson and Long… Now just Long and a draft pick? LOL That’s okay… Yankee fans will say they stole a future Hall of Famer away from them. Just like Voit.
Boogaloo
Long and a draft pick for a guy that was completely useless to them? Yeah, thats a decent move, lol
BartoloHRball
Useless to them v useful to another team are two very different things. I don’t view Gray as more of a fringe #4 but likely #5, but that still has some value to teams. That said, getting a guy in a team’s top 10 is pretty good.
#RedsNation
Now the package is said to be less than originally reported if gray doesn’t sign an extension. This keeps getting better and better!
steelerbravenation
That really is a steal for the Yankees if that is what is really going to them
reflect
From the same people that brought you “3 Months of Machado”…
MLBTR Studios presents… THE SONNY GRAY TRILOGIES
petfoodfella
Why are you here if it bothers you? See yo-self out
Steven Chinwood
He also complains about expiration dates on milk.
reflect
Why are you here if my comment bothers you? Or are you the only sanctioned arbiter of negative opinions?
Steven Chinwood
Because it became outdated 1-18-2019
olereb
I am a Braves fan, but if the Reds are giving their 6th and 7th best prospect plus a draft pick, I’m wondering what Reds brass is trying to do, at the end of the day they will still be last or next to last in their division. The Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals are all better. Why are they trading their future for a one year rental. If you are going to rebuild, you have to have patience
Nick Hogan
I think the tweet actually only implies they’ll give up one, but it’s still an overpay.
I also don’t think the Reds should be underestimated.
bhamredsfan
Yeah doesn’t seem like the right ‘next move’. But it is only one of those two, not both. I’ve thought Long was a borderline MPB player for a year now. That wouldn’t kill me, but it doesn’t really move the needle much unless Gray surprises us.
bhamredsfan
MLB
Melchez
Keuchel would have been a better fit.
Basebald
Keuchel has to want to play in Cincy. Gray only has say in how long he plays in Cincy.
petfoodfella
Yeah, 6th & 7th seems high for 1 year of Gray in a hitters park. At that point, I’d rather Atlanta not move that high of prospects for him, and use them for someone else.
Daver520
True THAT !!!!
losrojos
Been praying the Reds would stay away. Memories of the Chapman trade all over again. Unless Gray wins 15+ games with a well above average FIP and ERA+ I would see this as completely lopsided in the Yankees favor. Trading 2 of any organizations Top 10 prospects plus another draft pick is a huge over pay for a guy that you know they don’t want.
Kwflanne
Stop…. posting…. the same crap!!!! Tomorrow’s headline? “Gray to the reds a possibility…”
canocorn
Aliens invading Earth tomorrow a possibility.
Robertowannabe
Not sure of the Reds overall strategy is in this offseason. All of their moves are acquiring short term pieces all will be gone after this season, especially if they have bounce back years as the Reds hope.
Joeyjoejoe
The Dodgers deal was actually pretty good. It’s all wasted money (Bailey before, Kemp now etc) but now they have 3 guys who can help win games this year and they haven’t handcuffed themselves with salary down the road. I love that deal.
This one would make no sense to me. Giving up significant prospects for a one year rental.
cincinnatikid
If it’s Long, Stephenson and a draft pick for Sonny Gray that is a huge overpay. Unless there’s more coming back as in a couple of relievers then I’d much rather sign Gio Gonzalez or another free agent starter or go big and sign Dallas Keuchel
Daver520
Waaaaay to MUCH to give up for 1 year of another teams castoff !!!
He will help but not at that cost .
There are better options than Gray.
Fanof29teams
I don’t know how the Yankees do it .
uvmfiji
Sonny Gray makes me miss Ed Whitson.
tv 2
this would be a massive over pay for the reds. 2 top 10 guys for 1 year of a bum who can’t pitch anymore. who wants a guy in the playoffs who cant thow big games! if they make this trade we should flood their phones calling for Williams to be fired. I hope is rumor nonsense
phantomofdb
Came to say the same. Cincinnati also has a hitter friendly park. That’s too much to give up for Gray.
bhamredsfan
The fault here is Jeff Todd’s. He misquoted what Heyman said in his tweet.
bhamredsfan
At least report the tweet correctly Mr Todd. He clearly states one of Long or Stephenson, not both.
Sky14
“Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go.“
Yes, seems to be one of them plus another unknown prospect.
The Human Toilet
Only Cashman can get a top 10 prospect, for a fading back end starter with only 1 year control remaining.
driftcat28 2
2 top 10 prospects lol
Rowsdower
As a diehard Reds fan, I’d rather keep Stephenson and the comp pick but Shed Long and another low level prospect for Gray is fine with me. I want no part in trading Senzel for Kluber so hopefully this will signal the end of that. If Gray bounces back, Reds can contend, I fully believe that. Their bullpen is underrated and their lineup is stacked. I love what we’ve done thus far. Keuchel would be nice but for the money he wants, we wouldn’t have much room to wiggle going forward.
earmbrister
Couldn’t agree more Rows, on almost every point. Long and a lower prospect for Gray (nothing more) and hang on to Senzel. Kluber has feasted on the weak teams in his division; he could very well prove to be a disappointment with the Reds. I like Keuchel, but only if his contract demands come down, which I believe will happen. If the demands for Gray and Keuchel don’t become reasonable, just say no and leave the # 5 spot in the rotation open for the kids.
And those saying they won’t compete in 19 are in for a rude awakening. Their rotation has gone from abysmal to decent. The BP and the lineup is quality.
seth3120
Not a Reds fan but if they do enough to leapfrog even one of the teams in their division I’ll be blown away. So far I’m not seeing anything I can consider special or the kind of move that puts someone over the top. If starting pitching is the Achilles heal they acquired two fifth/sixth starters. The Nats literally signed Corbin(legit difference maker for a contender) then off loaded some excess in Roark. The Cardinals were much better and they got Goldschmidt and Andrew Miller to try to leapfrog the Cubs and/or Brewers. Those are guys that can get a team there not Wood or Roark. I like Puigs upside but don’t think he’d make a great starter. I personally see upside and certainly potential in Gray. His numbers outside Yankees stadium as many mentioned and his past success make him a prime rebound candidate and at his best he was an ace. But to get him you’re dipping into your top ten prospects, he won’t be enough even if he’s his best, and in 2020 everyone is gone and they are minus some prospects to go from bad to mediocre.
sethesq
Perhaps the Reds are thinking, of he’s productive in the first half, then either he helps them make a run or he’s trade deadline bait for contenders?
I don’t think he’s “washed up”; then again, I’m not getting paid to balance his value to my franchise versus that of the potential impact of minor league players.
To clarify:
Cashman is (potentially) turning Gray into prospects that (potentially) help the franchise later … maybe that’s the same idea in Cincinnati?
Sure, we’ve seen players come to The Bronx and wilt (something I still believe kept them from going all in to try and get Grienke years ago) only to find or regain themselves after they’re in another team.
Typically, we only hear/read about one side of “the pinstripe mystique” and rarely hear/read about the kind of pressure that’s gotta be inherent to always win.
I’ll never forget when the media literally swarmed Jeter’s locker after they lost the first game of the season. He just smiled and said something like “I guess we won’t be undefeated this season huh?”
Juggy
That’s a decent hall for Gray
baseballpun
They need to go hard for Keuchel or else I don’t think this makes much sense.
driftcat28 2
Does any one have a quick write up on Long and Stephensen? These guys any good?
Juggy
Long is a 2nd baseman with good upside. Stephenson is a Catcher with some pop
Steven Chinwood
MLBpipeline
bballaddict
I like what the Reds are doing. Let’s be honest, if they get Gray then there’s no reason to think they can’t be relevant in the chase for the second Wild Card deep into the season. That’s a vast improvement anyway you look at it. Not a Reds fan, don’t know the team, but can’t see a downside. Better than meaningless irrelevance for 162 games.
Joeyjoejoe
Downside is that they would dish two top 10 prospects for a 1 year pitcher who might regain some value. The Reds are trying to come out of a rebuild but they aren’t there yet. This is a move that a playoff team would make. There’s better options available on the open market.
Guest617
what a waste of internet space
Gambit1193
Sounds like a lot
stretch123
Getting at least one of those prospects would be a steal for the Yanks.
Drew Waters Bat
I wonder if the Braves overpay on Gray because a second bigger name is attached. Say Stanton or Andujar to transition to left field. I still want to know what the Marlins value Brian Anderson at, if they would be open to packaging him and jtr together?
elscorchot
Marlins won’t move Anderson. They’re trying to move realmuto and straily. They want to keep the young ones with years of service left.
Philliesfan4life
Terrible trade , Not sure why the dodgers , angels or padres are not in on him. Put him in a pitchers park and he will be back in his 2015 form imo.
Joeyjoejoe
Why would the Reds trade prospects for a guy that can only help them in a year where they hope they might challenge for the WC at best? Go sign Miley for 2 years. Go get Gio Gonzalez. Those guys will cost similar annual value, sign for multiple years and cost no prospects.
bravesfan
That projected prospects and draft pick for gray is so dumb. Way to much! Yankees don’t need to be handed this. Gray is worth far less
Philliesfan4life
Trade him to the dodgers , angels or padres to restock his value for the offseason. He needs to be in a pitchers park imo.
bravesfan
Maybe if you’re one of those teams you do that. And I truly think he has the potential to be ace like. But what he has shown recently and his health history, I wouldn’t give up two strong prospects for him at all. Not to mention a draft pick. I’ll trade 1 decently strong prospect (but not top 100 or top 10 at their position), another low lvl project that is packed with potential but hasn’t put anything together-basically someone no one has heard of, then some cash and/or a player to be named later. But prospects that are #6-7 in a strong system is flat silly for him especially if u add draft picks
elscorchot
*too
bigguccisosa300
Uhh a draft pick? Competitive balance ?
Bruin1012
There is no way the Reds are going to give up Long, Stephenson and a draft pick for one year of Gray. The draft pick is like the 36 pick in the draft. My guess is Stephenson and a higher 15-30 pick is what happens when it’s all said and done. Jeff Todd needs to read the tweet that he referenced one of Long or Stephenson is how I read it not both.
AZ Reds Fan
Reds should send the group they received for Aroldis Chapman back to the Yankees for Gray…. Caleb Cotham, Rookie Davis, Eric Jagielo and Tony Renda. .
Nick Hogan
Idk….I don’t want to give up the assistant pitching coach
canocorn
AZ;
Who?
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
“Expect Gray to be moved sometime this weekend…”
“This weekend” may need to be re-interpreted as “before spring training starts.”
canocorn
This Lost Weekend.
leftcoaster
Reds sure like #5 starters.
nowheretogobutup
I’d say one of those prospects and that’s it, Cashman take it or leave it, this guy has one yr. deal. He’s not Nolan Ryan or Jim Palmer.
gared2004
That cannot be the return for 1 year of Gray. Even if it was ROBERT Stephenson and not Tyler our #1 catching prospect, it would still be a major overpay. The FO has had a good offseason thus far. Don’t ruin it with such a dumb deal. As AZ Reds Fan pointe out we already were hosed by them in the Chapman deal. No need for a part 2. Shed Long alone would be more than fair. If they trade Long, then they will extend Scooter or install Senzel as the 2B for the next several years.
robb5215
Realistically what would it take to get Kluber? Would Long, Stephenson, and maybe Gennett enough? If not would throwing Schebler(sp) make it. Could fill 2nd with Senzel, and Trammell the outfield. Enough? Too much, or what. 3 years of Kluber could steady the ship and help the transition if the full rebuild.
Bruin1012
Kluber would cost way more then that he is controlled at a good price for three more years. He would cost more then the Reds would be willing to pay think Senzel plus.
Eskimo6804
Getting Kluber would cost something like Senzel, India, and Scott Schebler plus a B level prospect or two. Cleveland is only interested in trading one of their two big starters if they get a massive overpay. I’m a diehard Reds fan, and I honestly don’t think the package I mentioned above would get it done.
I’d love to see Kluber in Cincinnati, but not at the price that it will likely take to get him.
#RedsNation
Something like winker, Iglesias, mahle and a lotto ticket is fair that fills the Indians needs and the reds would probably do, but the indians wouldnt. They no longer have any real desire to trade Kluber.
king beas
This deal has been close for three days now
southi
Two top 10 prospects PLUS a draft pick seems kinda high for an often injured pitcher that had a poor season last season with only one year of control remaining.
ramiro209
If that’s really the Reds’ offer then it’s a done deal. Nobody is outbidding that offer. Long or Stephenson alone should have been enough.
sethesq
Not sure why I got down voted on a topic where so many place value that’s speculative (“prospect”) against proven experience then justify it on a decline or below usual performance.
How many players have bounced back or even excelled versus “blue chip prospects” who’ve tanked, if they even make it to The Show at all?
One player who comes to mind who was wearing the “washed up” tag brought a title to Houston
… but, no, please continue with the keen & insightful rhetoric based on wtfever.
I’ll get my popcorn
#RedsNation
Can someone please enlighten me as to what the Yankees initially traded for gray and their rankings at the time of the trade?
canocorn
Only thing that’ll save the Reds is an accounting innovation.
bhambrave
July 31, 2017: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with international bonus slot money to the New York Yankees for James Kaprielian (minors), Jorge Mateo (minors) and Dustin Fowler.
I don’t know their rankings.
bhambrave
Kaprielian Was coming off TJ. Fowler was their #1 but he got injured in his debut. Ruptured patella.
#RedsNation
Seriously? #1 prospect? Wow that Yankees front office truly is brilliant
Matthew De Lorge
When did he hit #1? Highest I saw him was #6, and besides, no matter where he ranked he blew his knee out BAD the season prior. I believe at the time they said nobody with similar injury ever came back the way they were.
Sp they traded 2 guys coming off of major surgery and a nobody for Gray initially.
#RedsNation
According to mlb.com they were the 4th, 8th and 12th ranked prospects. Both injured players were supposed to return in ’18. Gray lasted how long in the rotation?
Dicka24
Fowler was never their #1 prospect. Ever. The 3 players were all top 100 prospects at some point I believe. All had warts tho. Kaprelian TJ surgery, Fowler a significantly blown out knee, and Mateo had peaked as a prospect and was losing value. They traded talented guys, but all had a wart of some kind. It was a good trade for both teams. Oakland went for upside, the Yankees traded riskier prospects.
mlb.com/yankees/news/yankees-2017-preseason-top-30…
According to MLB’s 2017 preseason rankings the 3 prospects ranked
5 Mateo
6 Kaprelian
9 Fowler
That’s a nice haul for Oakland, but these were preseason rankings. Not July. Mateo lost shine and the others were injured. Good trade for both imo. The issue is Gray can’t pitch in Yankee Stadium. His road numbers are excellent tho. That’s what teams are focused on as they should be.
ctguy
Gray has been a bust for the Yankees. They really didn’t give up much in the trade for him…..a pitcher that just had TJ surgery, an outfielder with a blown out knee and Mateo. Gray just couldn’t handle pitching in NY.
Matthew De Lorge
And based on the results to this point neither side can claim the other got robbed. When we see how the 3 prospects pan out for Oakland we will know how well they did, although it does not look good so far. When we see how well the prospects the Yankees end up with for Gray pan out we will know their end.
Yes, Gray looks like a bust, but depending on what the Yankees get for him will ultimately determine if Cashman lost that trade, not how long Gray lasted in the rotation etc etc.
JSL2736
MLBTR didn’t quite get the tweet right. Heyman tweets, “Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend.”
So Long OR Stephenson + another prospect + draft pick, not Long + Stephenson + draft pick
#RedsNation
Yet still far too much. Classic price inflation
MrStadium
The last thing the Reds need to do is give up prospects for another average pitcher on a one year deal….
RedRooster
The #7 prospect in a loaded farm system plus a draft pick for one year of Sonny Gray?
I say let them have him.
JSL2736
I really was hoping for Stephenson. Long seems like Rob Refsnyder part 2.
RedRooster
Another future Hall of Famer?
JSL2736
lol
Chicks Dig the Longball
Reds farm system isn’t exactly loaded. It is average. They have 2 big prospects in Senzel (60) and Trammell (55). Hunter Greene (50/55) has a lot of potential but he hasn’t showed anything in pro ball yet, and India, Long, Stephenson are 45/50 grade guys that make up most top 5 lists.
ksoze
Lol, they are ranked 5th so not exactly average
earmbrister
Senzel, Trammell, and Greene are all 60 players. You know, rated higher than anyone in the NYY system. Then the Reds have a bunch of guys rated 50 +. Dunno where you’re getting your info Chicks. Like KS said, the Reds have a top 5 system.
ctguy
Maybe some of those minor leaguers might even make the majors…..maybe not.
Kenn E.
#6 & #7 ranked prospects + a pick seems way too steep. Gray may bounce back, Oakland seems like a better place for him to re-establish himself, kinda think The Great American Small Park will be just as bad for him as his NY experience was, IMO
Bald Vinny
#6 OR #7
Not both.
Kenn E.
Ahh, my bad. Thanks
JSL2736
MLBTR misquoted Heyman’s tweet. That has never been on the table. It was (Stephenson OR Long) + the draft pick + a second prospect.
Bald Vinny
Actual quote:
“Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend.”
“One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. “
TwinsTrio
Thanks for the correction as I didn’t follow it earlier.
What I don’t understand is giving up prospects and a draft pick for one year of service from a guy coming off a mediocre season. Gio Gonzalez or Ervin Santana are in the same situation but are free agents that would probably sign for not much more than the same salary as Gray will earn this year, but doesn’t cost anything from the farm system or future draft picks.
earmbrister
Gray > Gio or Santana.
Chicks Dig the Longball
I’ve never seen so many comments on a story about nothing happening. This offseason has been very anti-climatic,
SupremeZeus
The “reporting” of the details of alleged offers this offseason has been abysmal.
bravesfan
Yea trade Long seems fair enough, throw a project minor league pitching prospects and that’s more than enough. But long is pretty much MLB ready. And he’s not exactly gonna break that starting lineup soon at all. If I’m the yanks, I’d grab 2 lower tier pitching prospects. Scott Moss and James marinan make more sense. Guys who have more time to develop, show promise, and can be there in the future when the current lineup starts to go away. Otherwise, Long seems like an immediate trading chip for them.
tv 2
should not do more than one guy and none of the top 10 list. he is terrible and hurt
bravesfan
It’s hard for me to understand why the reds would trade away near mlb ready talent considering how bad they are and where this guy ranks in their system. And I agree gray isn’t worth what’s being tossed around but he’s worth more than 1 player for sure
Dbird777
Our lineup is as strong as any team in the NL when healthy, And not only is our IF filled up now, but we have Senzel and India waiting.. We shouldn’t give them a draft pick tho. That’s ridiculous.
Bryzzo2016
Yeah, the Reds aren’t as far away as some think. Good lineup, they just need some pitching. I actually like their moves.
itsmeheyhi
Disagree… I think most people know where Cincinnati is located.
OrangeKhrush
At least the Yankees have gotten something out of Gray, I didn’t like the Gray trade as an A’s fan, thought it was what the Yankees wanted to give us and not what we should have gotten.
Kaprilian hasn’t pitched in 2 years and was injured at trade, his two comebacks were met with setbacks. Mateo has completely cratered and even his only tool saw him get thrown out on base at an alarming rate,
Dustin Fowler couldn’t be any worse if he tried, he was replaced by Nick Martini (who) and Ramon “highlight reel” Laureano. His hitting put up a 3% walk rate and he has publicly stated he will not change, his 65 WRC+ tied into a -0.6 WAR. His base running saw him nabbed 4 times in 10 attempts and the fielding put up a brutal -8DRC and -15UZR/150. He looks stuck at AAA this year with Laureano, Piscotty, Canha, Pinder and Martini ahead of him and Barreto and Profar can also play outfield. It is a big year for Fowler, one that could see him bounce back or end up a career AAAA baller.
unsaturatedmatz
I wouldn’t give up on these guys yet man. All three were seen as risks. Kap seems healthy now, but has definitely taken longer than expected to get going. Mateo’s collapse is the real surprise, but he’s still talented enough to recover. Fowler was still a little rusty from his knee injury in 2017, but you do have a legitimate point about his ineptitude at the big league level in ‘18. There could be some value that these three bring to the A’s though.
RedRooster
Bold prediction: The Yankees don’t end up trading Gray
Dbird777
They’ve got to do something. They’re at 41 on the 40 man roster
RedRooster
Long is on the Reds 40-man roster so if this trade does happen as proposed the Yanks are still at 41 on the 40-man roster.
8791Slegna
Seems like glaciers make more progress than this trade proposal.
Knowthemarket
Where are those Yankee fans who thought Sonny Gray was going to draw top prospects? I remember seeing some suggest Paddack from the Padres. Reality hits like a ton of bricks sometimes.
Begamin
Reality might hit you hard too. Shed Long is the 6th best 2B prospect.
king beas
Where? In Yankee land
Begamin
I misread a January 2018 article assuming it was this years. That is my fault. He couldnt have dropped down too far below the top 10 2B prospects, though. He is still 7th CIN prospect.
BasedBallGuru
You realize the 6th best 2nd baseman title is probably on par with the 20th best SS prospect. Hardly anyone comes up as a 2nd baseman anymore.
Begamin
He would probably have a higher ranking if he didnt switch from catcher to 2B so late in his development. The bat is there, glove is a work in progress.
harmoney101575
Dont forget…. Scooter was getting traded for gray… NY Donkee Fans are stupid as F#%!
Bruin1012
Not a Yankee fan but the 36th pick in the draft and Long is too much imo so I think Cashman did well on this one.
Begamin
cant be any dumber than you
ctguy
He’s just a dopey crybaby Yankee hater
harmoney101575
Oh… so they traded for Scooter?
Bruin1012
If they really get Long and the 36th pick in the draft Cashman did well. That’s too imo.
Begamin
Its a very good return if its true. 36th pick, Long, and another lesser prospect for 1 year of Sonny Gray. Very good deal for the Yankees. This just raised the asking price for SP even more
PinstripedPride
Fantastic trade on Cashman’s part. I am more than happy with this.
simschifan
It’s a salary dump. This guy the Yankees got will never see Yankee stadium
itsmeheyhi
Impressive that you already know who they will take with the 36th pick. Can you share with us or are you not allowed by your source?
unsaturatedmatz
Terrible comment. Long isn’t the next Vlad Guerrero Jr. by any means but his offensive profile certainly makes for an intriguing prospect. His defense is pretty questionable, but he is nearly big league ready and could be moved around the field to debut this season (he might seem blocked right now, holes always open up for versatile players). Also, the 36th overall pick gives the Yankees lots of flexibility in their allocation of their draft bonus pool. If they wanted to merely dump Gray’s salary, why wouldn’t they have just handed him over to one of the other 7 teams that were interested in him in November? Please think and research before you comment next time.
#RedsNation
Time for yankees fans to start touting long as the next Robinson cano. At his absolute ceiling hes scooter who no one wants anyways
PinstripedPride
Someone a little butt hurt, maybe? If Sonny gets back to form then Cincinnati probably paid too little. Anyway, it’s too early to say yet. For now, I’m just glad he’s out of the Bronx
vmmercan 2
Don’t you children ever get tired if the same boring and unoriginal whining about what Yankees fans will or won’t say about their own? Every fanbase loves their prospects, at least the Yankees have had a hell of a lot of recent success with theirs.
#RedsNation
I just find it humorous how many comments I read about cashmans brilliance is all. Give him the Marlins and see what magic he can work!
unsaturatedmatz
probably a decent amount of magic. Sure, he has the luxury of working for an organization that consistently provides him with one of the largest spending budgets in the league, which can be used to cover up some mistakes. However, Cashman is a Hall of Fame General Manager. He’s in one of the most pressured positions in the MLB (just look at all the Yankee fans criticizing him for being financially cautious and avoiding the impending disastrous monstrosity of a contract that Machado is going to be given), yet has been able to constantly keep the fans approval. Just look at Cashman’s 2016 trade deadline results… he turned an old an declining outfielder (Carlos Beltran), two dominant relievers (Miller and Chapman), and Ivan Nova into prospects that turned into James Paxton, Zach Britton, Gleyber Torres, Clint Frazier, and Stephen Tarpley. Most teams have more talent than those four guys on their roster, but Cashman absolutely maxed out his return. This Yankees team is also built from the farm system up… Judge, Severino, Sánchez, Andújar, Betances, Holder, Bird, and Gardner all came up through the system. He made a savvy deal to get Aaron Hicks a few years back for John Ryan Murphy (now a 3rd string catcher), got Chad Green and Domingo German as throw-in pieces in deals for spare pieces, and has now filled in the holes in the roster with economical signings like Happ, Lemahieu, Sabathia, Chapman (may backfire in the long-run), Ottavino, and Britton, instead of chasing the big $ FA like he used to. Cashman has reinvented himself multiple times throughout his long tenure with the Yankees and is absolutely a Hall of Fame GM.
#RedsNation
The reds flipped waiver wire pickups dan straily for Luis Castillo and alfredo Simon for eugenio Suarez. Turned .220 hitting todd Frazier into ‘non prospect’ Jose peraza. Every team makes good moves in a vacuum. I’m not saying hes a bad gm but yankee fans talk like hes the messiah. Just find it funny.
unsaturatedmatz
He’s one of the best GMs of all time… these moves have been made at a pretty high success rate for a while now. You just isolated the best three moves that the Reds have made since 2014… I was just talking about the rebuild alone, not even the other hundred great acquisitions he’s made as GM.
hockeyjohn
It is much easier for a GM of a large market team to put together a team as they have much more money to spend.. Would Cashman do as well with a small market team? I don’t think so .
unsaturatedmatz
This is an amusing comment that consists of zero evidence. Just because he hasn’t been the GM for a small market team doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be successful as one. With his ability to get the most of our players in every trade and strong amateur, minor league, and international scouting track record there’s no reason to believe he would be a good GM for the Marlins.
hockeyjohn
Yankee fans act like Cashman is perfect. Sonny Gray was a mistake. The way that he has handled the Gray trade this season has been a mistake. I would say he is a good GM. A hall of fame GM no way.
earmbrister
Thanks Mom!
unsaturatedmatz
Sonny Gray was a mistake. Once again the resounding lack of evidence presented in your case that he isn’t a Hall of Fame GM makes for a poor argument. I’m not saying he’s perfect by any means; Cash has swung and missed on many guys over the years like Javier Vazquez, AJ Burnett, and Sonny Gray. But overall, he’s thrived in many different eras and been extremely successful. Not too many HOF GMs our there but Cashman, Epstein, and Dombroski all stand out as obvious candidates.
#RedsNation
I knew someone would bring up Epstein as he has won rings with multiple teams. What did he do for the Cubs though? He took over when they had a stacked farm system. He hired a great manager that everyone knew was great, and he spent hundreds of millions on pitching. Seriously who couldn’t have done that if we’re being honest?
hockeyjohn
Dombrowski a candidate? Now I know you are of questionable knowledge. The Detroit Tigers, who never won a World Series was run into the ground by Dombrowski. He traded all of their prospects. They currently are bad and trying to fix the mess that he made. Boston will have major problems next year when multiple starts are free agents. They are also so far over the salary cap. Again, all three people you listed are large market teams. They have the advantage of a much larger budget. You commented that just because he hasn’t been a GM of a small market team doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be successful. But, there is no proof that he would be successful as well. A money mistake or a bad trade like Sonny Gray is much more devastating to a small market team than to the Yankees., Cashman has done a good job, but your comment on the Hall of Fame is still a joke. Take off your pin stripped glasses. If he is so good, as you say, Why hasn’t the Yankees won an AL pennant or world series since 2009 with their large budget? I rest my case.
#RedsNation
Damn you just spit fire
DarkSide830
Long is a really mediocre return for a guy who is taking up a roster spot in Gray. Long is a very meh prospect that will also need to be on NYY’s 40-man, so all it saves them is a 25-man spot. better to get a younger player who doesnt need to be on the 40 and might actually be half-decent at some point.
James1955
Are you the darkside that used to be on mlb.com?
Mikel Grady
Baseball can trade draft picks now?
RedRooster
Competitive balance picks have always been able to be traded. That is the pick NYY would be getting
Bruin1012
Only competitive balance picks.
ChipChipperson
Three updates today. Same story. Heyman stinks.
Begamin
Its details of a trade thats being finalized as we speak, I dont understand the problem.
ChipChipperson
Tss tssh What’s your name Begamin Heyman or sumthin?
Begamin
I dont even like Heyman? I think just a couple days ago he said the Reds and Pads were out
uvmfiji
Did we just trade for Rob Refsnyder?
Bryzzo2016
I love what the Reds are doing, I’m happy for Votto. They’re making it clear to their fanbase that they’re sick of being the doormats in the central.
kiddhoff
Finalizing the deal! This time next Wednesday itll be a done deal
Dbird777
They’ll announce it during the Super Bowl halftime show
earmbrister
Which Super Bowl?
simschifan
I’m not saying this trade is gonna make the Reds a contender but I honestly don’t think any team in the central is gonna win over 85 games. It is gonna take a toll on every team
jgus828
So basically for the Yankees a trade piece for the future.
Core4
Weirder things have happened in baseball then a prospect that essentially seems blocked by the big league club he represents, suddenly finding himself on that very same big league club for a variety of different reasons. Worst case, helps build the system back up a bit with so many graduations and trades over the past couple yrs. That draft pick is a nice bonus as well. Essentially got a yr and a half of Gray for one prospect,(sent 3 to oak), a nd none of those prospects have done anything anyhow. Now we get Long and a draft pick that hopefully do better then Mateo, Kaprielian, or Fowler do for Oak, plus we had Gray for the yr and a half. And honestly I’d prob take Long over any of the guys we traded to Oak at this point anyhow.
jakethesnizake
Might as well keep Gray. This is an absolute nothing trade that doesn’t help the Yankees enough. Yankees will need starting pitching depth and Gray represents the best sixth starter option.
Bryzzo2016
They can’t keep Gray, not every player is built to play in the Big Apple. Gray has proven he can’t handle it there. It is what it is.
Core4
What are u talking about? Yanks are loaded with pitching in the system and little in way of position player depth. Also Long is a lefty hitter which is nice, with so many young righties on the ML team, and he’s got some speed, which wi th Ells and Gardy at or near the end of there Yankee tenures, is would be welcomed. Shed has also steadily climbed the ranks with very little stumbling and his decent pop should play up a bit in Yankee Stadium. Even if he dosent make it with us, or is blocked , he helps replenish a system that has traded a lot of prospects as well as graduated a bunch. Add in a early rd draft pick , all for a guy whos not really needed in 2019 anyways, and it is a win deal for yanks. None of the prospects traded for Gray have done anything for Oak either, and now we essentially get a prospect back and a draft pick. So on top of everything else, lightens the load of prospect loss for Gray to begin with on top of gives us a much needed position player prospect and a draft pick. I’m more then fine with this deal
YourDaddy
Gray is a nothing. His ERA was 6.98 in Yankee Stadium.
earmbrister
I’d be surprised if it’s Long AND a competitive balance pick. It’s ONE year of Gray who hasn’t exactly set the world on fire lately. The only reason they’re giving up Long is that they still, after shedding Jeter Downs, have an excess of Second Basemen. Long and a lottery ticket is reasonable.
unsaturatedmatz
Long definitely isn’t a lottery ticket. He’s nearly big league ready and his offense is likely to be at least slightly above average for an MLB 2B. I would say he’s more of a high floor, low ceiling prospect than a “lottery ticket”, which is used for prospects that are immensely risky due to their low floor, high ceiling combinations. Long is a sure bet to make the big leagues.
unsaturatedmatz
Just realized I mis-read your comment above. My bad! I thought said Long was the lottery ticket. Your comment made sense.
YourDaddy
Long isn’t the lottery ticket. The draft pick is the lottery ticket. Long struggled in AA at 23. He is not exactly a high floor prospect.
unsaturatedmatz
Long had a wRC+ of 120 last season… that’s well-above average and would indicate he didn’t struggle. Are there some swing-and-miss concerns? Sure, but he walks at a solid clip, has 15 HR power, and 20 SB-caliber speed. All that may not materialize at the MLB-level, but he was an offensive weapon last year.
Core4
Long hasent struggled at any level. Back to back yrs with double digit homers and steals and is a career 353obp in the minors. Speed, pop, lefty hitter, and gets on base. Pretty much exactly what yanks need, as they are loaded with righty power hitters with little speed. And worst case, we use em for a trade down the line, similar to Solak. People like cincys system and this guy was entrenched in there top10 prospects, which should tell u he’s got potential, and also brings some things to the table yanks don’t have in abundance rite now, like speed, lefty bat with pop, gets on base…etc
Bryzzo2016
Ok Cincy, I see you. Some nice moves, another team to make the NL Central that much tougher.
ksoze
Please don’t trade Long, and a draft pick! Long alone is more than enough. I thought he’d be our 2020 starting 2B. Maybe the Reds will sign Gennett for an extension.
RedRooster
Gennett isn’t signing an extension but they already have his replacement in Nick Senzel
#RedsNation
Why would he not sign an extension? He loves cincinnati and you’ve seen what kind of contracts the glut of 2nd baseman have received this off season. Something like 3 yrs 21 mil sounds right. Senzel is headed for the outfield once puig and Kemp leave after the season. Maybe earlier in Cf.
RedRooster
I don’t know why he or anyone would want to stay in Cincy considering they won’t contend for the next 10 years. But assuming he did want to stay there, he wouldn’t sign an extension because Cincy will offer him more money if they have potentially 29 other teams driving up the price on him than they would if they have the captive market.
Reds are about to ruin Senzel using him as a utility.
#RedsNation
Well hes under contract for this season so no one is driving up the price. As I said he loves Cincinnati
RedRooster
But next offseason he WILL have teams driving up his price.
So you’re like his best friend and he told you he loves Cincinnati?
ksoze
Gennett has been asking for an extension for the last year and a half. I also agree with #RedsNation that Senzel will be an Outfielder.
RedRooster
@ksoze if that’s the case why hasn’t it happened yet?
#RedsNation
Bc he didn’t play the 2nd half of last season? Why is he working out for new manager david bell at cf in Arizona right now? Boredom?
RedRooster
I meant why hasn’t Gennett signed an extension yet? Reds fans have sworn up and down for the past year that it would happen just like people swore up and down last year that Manny Machado would sign an extension. How’d that one go?
#RedsNation
He was born in cincinnati. There’s a lot of players born here that want to come back. Some guy named Griffey did it and took a lot less money at that.
#RedsNation
It’s a pointless debate anyways. Fact of the matter is long was blocked at 2nd by multiple potential options and cant play another position
RedRooster
Griffey was born in Pennsylvania. And we’re taking your word that he took a discount to sign with Cincy. Anyway, it was a different time and the Reds looked much better back then than they do now.
Again, if Gennett wanted to sign an extension it would have happened by now. It’s not like the Reds haven’t tried.
#RedsNation
I’m sure Griffey remembers his Pennsylvania days fondly lmao. What are you reds front office? You have some insider info on why they wont contend for the next 10 years? Please share.
RedRooster
What are you Gennett’s agent? Did he tell you he wants to sign an extension with Cincy? Please share.
They won’t contend for the next 10 years because their division is loaded, their front office is inept and Joey Votto isn’t getting any younger.
#RedsNation
Well he has told the entire fan base on numerous occassions. I suppose he could be lying to garner favor with the fans? Who knows for sure. 10 years is a long period of time to predict. Votto will be retired by then lol
#RedsNation
I cant tell are you a jaded reds fan or Yankees fan? Just curious
RedRooster
“Well he has told the entire fan base on numerous occassions.”
Where? And even if he has, did you really expect him to say “Fxxk these guys, I’m out of here as soon as free agency rolls around?”
“I cant tell are you a jaded reds fan or Yankees fan? Just curious”
Neither.
#RedsNation
MLB.com: Do you still have it in your mind?
Gennett: Yeah. For me not to have an extension — I don’t think would make a whole lot of sense for it to not to happen at some point. What I’m willing to do for this team, for the fans in Cincinnati and being from Cincinnati, it’s kind of the perfect formula for me …
MLB.com: You love this team.
Gennett: Yeah. I love this team. I’m willing to do anything I can to help the team win. It’s not just out there playing second base. It’s in my heart. It’s something I really care about. That’s why I’m honest and serious about me getting extended. … It’s something I’m serious about because I know I can do more if I know the team wants me around for a while. The only way to prove that is to put it in writing, lock me up. Until that happens, it’s hard for me to fully focus on the future of being a Red. It’s not real. It’s not for sure.
Could just be lip service, but that’s one of the many times hes spoken about it.
RedRooster
One time is not many. Anyway, of course he’s gonna say that. It’s very rare for a player to say “I’m going to free agency and that’s it” regardless of how they actually feel.
I’ll ask it again because you keep ignoring it. If Gennett wants to sign an extension so bad, why hasn’t it happened yet? It’s not like the Reds haven’t tried.
ksoze
Before the start of this season, Scooter Gennett approached the Reds with interest in securing a long-term contract.
The Reds declined, Gennett says, because he was fresh off a career season and the front office wanted to see him repeat his success.
He’s certainly done that.
“They were like, ‘OK, he had a great year. Let’s see if he can do it again,’ ” Gennett said. “We had a talk in Spring Training and basically I understood why. It makes complete sense. This year, I think I’ve kind of proved to them that last year wasn’t really a fluke, that I can do that on a consistent basis.”
#RedsNation
You expect me to pull every quote hes ever made on the subject and post it here? Do your own research if you’re so curious. Show me where the reds have tried to sign him bc that’s news to me and also the answer to the question I’m “ignoring”
There has been no offer bc the reds were in rebuild mode, had a top 5 prospect in the waiting, and thought they could trade him for something. Things have changed.
ksoze
He has openly asked for an extension, and has spoken of why the Reds had declined him so far. When the signed him to his last season as a arb eligible player, I thought they had decided to move on from him. Now if they trade Long, it makes me wonder if they still plan to sign him. They did a similar move with Suarez the other year.
RedRooster
#RedsNation that’s funny cuz I’ve heard multiple times on here that the Reds actively want to extend him
RedRooster
@ksoze even with Long gone they already have a replacement for Gennett in Nick Senzel
Ty1990
So I take it you’re a Cubs or a cardinals fan, because you certainly hate the Reds for some reason. Gennett has said several times that he wants to remain a red rather than test free agency. If you followed this team at all, you would know that. I can’t stand the negativity from people like you. You would be upset no matter what they did.
google.com/amp/s/amp.mlb.com/289759228-scooter-gen…
Gennett: Yeah. I love this team. I’m willing to do anything I can to help the team win. It’s not just out there playing second base. It’s in my heart. It’s something I really care about. That’s why I’m honest and serious about me getting extended
It literally took me 2 seconds to find this article, so you can stop your little temper tantrum and maybe trying being positive for once.
Willy Mays
What?, He’s getting 9.75 mill this year in arbitration. So it’s you’re argument that instead of going to free agency he’ll sign a 3 year extension for far less than he’s earning his last year of arbitration.He’s worth more than DJ who just signed 2 years 24 mill.He’d be worth at least 3 yrs 35 mill if he signed an extension probably more
RedRooster
Not a Cubs or Cardinals fan either. So many things have to go right for the Reds to be a contender in that division. And they are going to lose quite a few contributors next offseason so you can’t even count on them making an incremental improvement in 2020.
As for the quote you provided. Of course he’s going to say that. Most players do regardless of what their actual intentions are. Manny Machado said something similar when he was in BAL for example. He doesn’t have to sign an extension to stay in Cincy. He can sign with them in FA. They are not going to bring their best offer to the table when they have the captive market. Would you rather get less money to play in Cincy or more money to play in Cincy? People on here have been saying that a Gennett extension was guaranteed to happen for like a year now. So why hasn’t it happened yet?
earmbrister
Lord, give it a rest already. You know little about the Gennett situation and even less about the Reds.
RedRooster
Won’t contend for the next 10 years
#RedsNation
Are you one of those people that just love to argue about anything. You know kyrie Irving says the earth is flat. I disagree. Thoughts?
ksoze
Right, Senzel is an excellent replacement. I just feel they will keep in the OF. I guess only time will tell. I’d say it would be too optimistic to expect India to be ready in 2020, or Garcia. An interesting thing about the guys they have coming up in the middle infield (not Long) is that they are very versatile players.
A very conceivable group of athletes that can play multiple positions in 2021 Peraza SS, 2B, and CF
Suarez SS, 3B
Senzel OF, 3B 2B
India 3B, SS, 2B
Garcia SS, 2B
They will have a couple of immovable objects
Votto 1B
Winker LF
It’s going to be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next few seasons.
RedRooster
Nope. I just don’t see how the Reds catch any of the Cubs, Brewers or Cards anytime soon, nor do I trust their FO to make the right moves. They have routinely mistimed trades of key players or just not traded them because they wanted to keep them in Cincy only to lose them to free agency anyway.
ksoze
Lol, how is that a nope? I didn’t pose a question. I didn’t declare they would even be good. All I said is “It’s going to be interesting to see how it all plays out over the next few seasons.”
The Cards are a very well ran organization, that will continue to be competitive for the foreseeable future. ALL other NL Central teams have windows that seem to open and close.
#RedsNation
You’re spot on about the mismanagement of trading key players. It was a different front office though. When you dont follow a team you open yourself up to making misinformed ignorant comments. I guess it’s not totally your fault?
RedRooster
Cubs and Brewers are gonna be good for a while. Cards always seem to be in contention no matter what happens. Pirates have been MIA this offseason it seems like. I could see the Reds beating them out for 4th in the division this year but all that’ll mean is the Pirates draft before the Reds in 2020.
Goetta
Scooter is actually originally from Cincinnati, moved to Florida, and then came back to Cincinnati in high school to play his summer ball for Midland… so yeah. I’d say there is something to him wanting to be in Cincinnati.
Dan Miller
The Reds shouldn’t give up anything for Sonny Gray, and especially not a good prospect. Gray is all right, but let’s face it; he isn’t going to put the Reds over the top into contender status, and he’s already getting paid more than he’s worth. The Reds can get an equal or better pitcher in free agency (Marco Estrada? Gio Gonzalez? Drew Pomeranz?) without giving up any prospects. The Yankees should be glad to get someone to take Gray; instead they’re looking to get top prospects in return? That is beyond absurd. Just for the sake of argument, let’s say Long turns out to be a bust. What have the Reds lost by keeping him? Sonny Gray? Big deal, especially when there are a dozen Sonny Grays available in free agency. If they trade Long and he turns out to be good, the Reds have gotten swindled.
vmmercan 2
There’s this thing called a “market” and you failed to read it for gray correctly. The Yankees got what the market dictated they didn’t have to be glad about any return because those teams considered they were receiving value to their own team.
hiflew
Even if you don’t think Sonny Gray can push the Reds over the top, you can’t think Shed Long or a random #36 pick will push them over the top. I know who I think will make the Reds better in 2019.
Basebald
The Reds new pitching coach was Gray’s pitching coach at Vandy.
Obviously he feels that he can work with him and get him back to his best baseball.
And after what he did with the likes of Wade Miley and Gio Ginazalez and that bunch last year. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt so far.
I’ve seen people say that giving up Long and a pick is too much for a 1 year rental. Perhaps. But as others have atated…
1. If the Reds are able to contend, then it’s worth it and they can make qualifying offers on whoever they feel good about moving forward.
2.If not, they flip them at the deadline and get comparable prospects back.
So, they’ve used a strength(#7 ranked farm system….and not their top prospects) to add to a weakness(the rotation). That’s how you’re supposed to do it.
They have a solid pen and a really good lineup. Defense isnt bad even with the loss of Hamilton. And they still have plenty of money, based on what the GM and owner have said, to go out and either…
Add Keuchel, trade for Kluber(not preferred because that does cost those top prospects) and/or sign or trade for a better centerfielder. And if they sign a centerfielder, they still have a plethora of outfielders to work trades with if someone gets injured or they identify a weakness or the opportunity to better the club in whatever way comes up.
As a long time Reds fan who has lived through this rebuild, I’m all in….just like them. I say, good work.
Goetta
Agreed, well said. Have to love the flexibility in these deals and the fact that they can recoup draft picks with qualifying offers or dump them at the deadline. If I were the front office, I would be looking to move Scooter to free up a spot for Senzel and address center field and add a quality bullpen arm. See where you are at the deadline and if you are in it, make a move for an ace. If not, dump your assets and have a ton of payroll space going into next offseason.
Dan Halen
Can we get Kaprielian and Matteo back in that trade lol…. Cashhhhhhhh strikes again with his pitching moves
64' Yanks
Good posts from Samuel and joeshome11!
I agree Rothschild does have a negative effect on the pitching staff. since he got to NY. Starting with AJ Burnett who’s fast ball disappear from Rothschild coaching. Since he got away from Larry, AJ’s numbers are much better for the PIrates. Ivan Nova is another example as will be Michael Pineda, You can also look at Nathan Eovaldi who just resigned with Boston, and you can bet the house the Yankees didn’t give him an offer as Eovaldi would have told them put it where it doesn’t shine. Plus, you can look at what effects on the bullpen last year. What happen to Kahnle? He was lights out and then after one year he was batting practice material. I’m in favor of going a different direction like someone who is like Stottlemyre .
Matthew De Lorge
Eovaldi still sucks, and if anyone remembers him in NY he has always been streaky. Guy would go 8-10 starts and look like an ace, and then the next 8-10 and look like a #5 starter.
What he was with TB and the Red Sox during the regular season was the same guy, just look at his numbers.
WOW, guy had a great postseason. Take as a streaky guy about to enter free agency looking to set his value. Bravo, he’ll likely have a 4.50 ERA and be a .500 pitcher with the Red Sox.
YakAttack
This is everything that’s wrong with mlb. Big market takes a chance, fails, and gets bailed out by top 20 prospects from a bottom tier team. Disgusting, tbh.
Begamin
No one forced the Reds to make this trade. Gray doesnt even command that much money. Any team couldve done what the Yankees did with Gray. Keep crying though
RedRooster
The prospects the Yankees gave up for Gray have all faltered in OAK but at the time, they gave up a much better package than the one they are receiving
ksoze
Well, obviously. They had more control of Gray time wise, and people actually thought he was good. Well actually he was good, but has surely regressed the last couple of years.
Colorado Red
Shed is the Reds 7th best prospect.
Not on the MLB to 100
lowtalker1
Lol
Glad preller was like nope
seth3120
The most puzzling offseason I can remember from any team. I have to believe they are just trying to give the fans a break for a year and win a few games but not seriously threaten anyone in the central or win a wild card spot. I’m surprised professional sports writers talk about the Reds as if they’ve built themselves a real starting rotation. They better fire some more shells because it isn’t nearly enough. The Yankees thought enough of Gray to leave him off the postseason roster. All this talk about numbers away from Yankee stadium and he was of no better than another pitcher on their roster that could have starter away games or been a bullpen arm. As good as the Yankees were their staff wasn’t great either by the way and he still couldn’t crack the roster. Cashman couldn’t say bye fast enough after the season. Lots of contending teams in win now mode not willing to beat the Reds offer of their 6 of 7th organizations best prospects to acquire Gray to try to win it this year. With that being said he’s much better than the other two additions with some upside. The Nats are a team that were actually close and are actually going for it they went out and signed Corbin to bolster their rotation now and for the future which led them to deal Roark to the Reds for a mere top 20 Reds prospect. Sounds like there was a real fight for his services. Then there’s Wood who is harder to compare in trade in that package deal of salaries and multiple players but he was on the World Series roster but solely as a left handed reliever. Not a guy a contender asks to win a playoff game but a guy they could use to match up in their favor or lefty vs lefty. If he was right handed he also would not have been good enough to make a postseason roster. The Reds are trying to build a contender during a rebuild from a bunch of castaways on the last years of their contracts. The Cardinals finished just behind the Cubs and Brewers so they went out and got Goldschmidt and Andrew Miller to fill their holes. Those are moves that make a team that’s close a legit threat or gets them over the hump. I’d be selling anything that I had of value for young talent that fit my timeline of putting a winning team together that could be sustained for a handful of years with the Reds limited payroll. You’re seeing the Cubs checkbook closing and farm system far from what it was not long ago. The Brewers also have a small market payroll and they can only do so much outside of drafting and developing. The Cardinals rarely go crazy either way. Spend more than the Reds but less than Cubs. They won’t rebuild or blow up the farm either so if you build it right they can be overtaken. Save your money and build a sustainable true contender not this collection of misfit toys. The only two guys I see added here that have a chance to make sense are Gray and Puig. Those are the only two with the potential to bring back what you gave up or potentially more. That’s not saying they will that’s just to say those two have actual talent that the rest have either long since lost or have been around the majors plenty long enough for their true colors to shine. We know who they are and who they aren’t. No contender will be interested in their services at the deadline. Hopefully this season of being a little better makes Reds fans feel warm and fuzzy because 2019 will be nothing more than mediocre at best and 2020 will require another complete roster overhaul and with a few less minor league pieces, money spent in 2019 that should have been held back for future, and a few added wins will net them a few spots worse in draft selection.
seth3120
Sorry for the stupid long rant I rarely comment just like reading fans opinions on their teams organizations and things I might not know without following them everyday. It was a very detailed way of essentially saying that I know for sure that the Yankees and Dodgers viewed Gray and Wood as their number five starters considering their rank in the postseason and while I’m not positive on Roark I know the Nats added someone else to drop him for very little return. That for a team that’s not close during a rebuild with three good teams to overcome is something I don’t see any other organization doing
#RedsNation
I think the reds plan is to try to compete in 19 while keeping the strength of their farm system in tact. They added positive WAR players to fill by far their biggest weakness. If it doesn’t work they can always trade at the deadline or extend QOs for draft picks. They really havent given up much, and they’ll have roughly 50 mil coming off the books to spend in fa for 2020. I think you undervalue the starters they received as well as how much of a weakness it has been, but your opinion was insightful. Both wood and Roark have consistent +WAR years. Gray is much more of a gamble imo, but has the highest ceiling potentially.
Saint Chris
Wood was a Cy Young candidate in 2017.
seth3120
Valid point but he wasn’t near that last year.
seth3120
If by compete you mean improve but not overtake a team in the central that’s certainly been done. If I’m undervaluing the starters they’ve acquired its been because they were back end rotation guys on really good teams but by competing im assuming they mean to be one of those teams and you can’t by building a staff from a collection of those type starters. Maybe in the al central but not the nl central next year. I concede they haven’t dipped much into the farm but the Gray deal does cost more than peanuts those type guys can turn into something the more lotto tickets you have the better odds of winning some. That is yet to be determined. Can a player be extended a qualifying offer after being traded at this point? I know they can mid season. If so which guys are they extending 18+ million offers to that aren’t going to pounce on them?
#RedsNation
The reds have one of the best lineups in the league and the worst starting rotation. Rebuilding with +war pitchers will be more effective than literally any other team doing it. By taking this strategy they also keep all of their top prospects, and have 50 mil to spend in fa next off season. If they dont make the playoffs what have they lost? At least they’ll be competitive.
Iron Horse
Agree on all of that. Being competitive beats the daylights out of what we’ve seen the past several years. My only concern with this strategy is that the team will be in the same spot next year needing to fill 3 rotation spots. Now $50 mil to spend will be nice. But will free agents want to come here? My guess is that has been a no this year, hence Dick Williams going the trade route to #getthepitching. But that’s a worry for another day. Today, let’s just enjoy the possibilities with an exponentially better rotation than the team had last year.
slpdajab55
You offer some interesting insight. Some could work out that way .. maybe not. That’s why they play the games. Will definitely be more interesting than last year.
CONservative governMENt
I read that the Reds have some minimum attendance thresholds they need to meet to be in compliance with their deal with the city. So they are pushing short-term commitments to avoid a total collapse to buy time for the prospects to develop.
seth3120
That’s not something I’ve heard but an interesting factor. It would make sense for the city. If they help build the ballpark or give tax breaks they need fans downtown going to games spending money for that to pay off.
yanks_aaronx3
NYY should have traded gray to Oakland for Matt Olson a low A level prospect. Yanks also give them Kahnle and bird voit.
unsaturatedmatz
They would’ve never gotten Matt Olson for those pieces. I’m a Yankees fan too, and that is a completely ridiculous proposal. Four players from the Yankees 40-man (three of which are pieces at all-time low-points in their values) for one of the most crucial members of the A’s core. Nobody wants Kahnle if he looks like last year’s version (which is probably why you included him in this deal). The same can be said for Bird. Voit has a great run last season, but his age and previous track record really limits his trade value. They can’t get elite talent for spare/unwanted pieces. C’mon man.
Rowsdower
The “1 year rentals” for starting pitching will gain popularity. Reds starting a trend
Kwflanne
Enough…. just post again when a gray deal is actually done. Seriously. Enough.
KnicksFanCavsFan
you can just ignore it.
Kwflanne
Hard to do when it’s been the top post on the thread every day for four days now…. “gray deal close”… “expect gray trade this weekend”…. “multiple teams on on gray”…. “gray to Yankees close”…. “Yankees reds finalizing gray deal”…. etc etc etc. It makes the posters on this site seem pretty much irrelevant. Watch, I’ll post a rumor right now:
“Machado and Harper in contact with multiple teams.”
Give me my headline!!
slpdajab55
The title of this site does say “ rumor”
whosyourmomma
Over/under: There will be 3 more updates before this deal is finalized or announced by teams?
Adam6710
Over.
Sky14
Well since this post there has been one update. Think the over is a safe bet.
#RedsNation
At the end of all of this someone fails a physical and the deal is off.
bobtillman
We have now completely entered the Twilight Zone……are the Reds including a Coconut Latte from Starbucks? Are the Yanks asking for a Blueberry Smoothie? America wants to know!!!!!
stymeedone
Three days later, I have determined that MLBTR definition of “finalizing” is much different than mine.
Melchez
“A third piece”? Joey Votto?
Sorry, just kidding. I’m not stupid… I’m just thinking like a Yankee fan.
bobtillman
It’s going to be hilarious when Gray pitches to a 9-9 record with a 4.50 ERA and neither of the prospects make it to AAA……….
ckeen1966
Shed Ling will be in AAA easily, already spent a year plus at AA
Melchez
an offense minded 2b that strikes out a lot and has questionable defense. He’ll fit right in as a Yankee.
Yankeepatriot
We have Torres set for the long term at second …
Adam6710
Long is either going to be 1) a warm body at AAA, 2) depth for 2B, or 3) will be flipped before the season for a lower level prospect at a more needed position. Any of these is fine, considering the goal of the trade was to free up the $$ and roster space.
dobsonel
Or maybe packaged with other prospects for a front line starter.
Colorado Red
Shed Long, not Ling. Typo I guess.
ckeen1966
Yep
Adam6710
Why will that be hilarious? That will be a win for the Yankees (for dumping $9M, and a wash for the Reds (who lost nothing special and got a replacement level pitcher).
Joeyjoejoe
Why would Gray signing an extension affect the return?? He is what he is at present. If he signs an extension that’s on the Reds. Nothing to do with the Yankees. Why would they benefit from the Reds extending more commitment???
Jonthunder
Agreed, unless 2 separate packages are on the table.
BUCKCINCY73D
Well it would make sense. 1 year of control versus multiple years of control. I can see that being a factor and having multiple deals in place on that condition.
#RedsNation
Bc when the reds make the offer they say conditional on him signing an extension obviously
Colorado Red
Shed is an overpay for a one rental.
He is then worth more to the Reds.
CONservative governMENt
The Yankees would get more in trade because they are allowing one of their players to negotiate an extension with another team while still under contract.
The Reds would gain the certainty of having that commitment ‘before’ the trade was made and that has value.
Bruin1012
This is actually really smart by the Reds. I have to give there front office credit. If they can extend him for a few more years he is worth more to them then just a one year rental.
The Yankees only control him for one more year and I’m guessing if he doesn’t extend then they won’t be getting that 36th pick in the draft. This makes a lot more sense to me. Trading Long, the 36th pick in the upcoming draft, and a lesser pick was just an overpay for One year of Gray.
whyhayzee
July 31, 2019. 11:57 PM The yankees are still hopeful that a deal can be worked out before the deadline. Even though they trail the surprising blue jays by 28 games, they still feel they can catch the wild card angels and their triple crown candidate blake swihart.
Matthew De Lorge
Seeing Gray was just complaining about being “wanted”, the Reds wanting an extension shouldn’t take long seeing that is the ultimate sign of wanting him. The Reds are nuts for wanting to extend a guy coming off a down year in which he was bad in a hitters park, being traded to another hitters park. I can see if San Diego wanted to extend him, but I don’t see him fairing much better with the Reds in that ballpark.
#RedsNation
My thoughts are this is a bargaining ploy by the reds to give less in the trade. If gray takes a very team friendly deal that would be ok too, but I dont see much of a negotiation going on here. It’s going to be a take it or leave it proposal.
rossdfarian
What kind of deal is on the table?
2 years, $22mil with a team option for two more at $38mil or a player option at $30mil, providing that he starts at least 40 games in the first 2 years?
Matthew De Lorge
If you are Gray do you, 1. Bank that you are better than you were and say no to an extension, understanding that it may mean you stay with the Yankees in a reduced role, or 2. Sign the extension and thank your lucky stars anyone wanted to give you more money and years after the nightmare season you just had?
I am pulling for him, because I ultimately feel bad with how much of a mismatch the Yankees were for him.
captainchaos55
One thing that may play in to this that isn’t being mentioned is his hometown. He grew up only a 4 1/2 hours south of Cindy in the Nashville area. There is something to be said for that. Considering where he has played in his career, it’s almost like playing at home.
captainchaos55
*Cincy
rossdfarian
I think Pickles gotta take the money.
CONservative governMENt
Less than Long and the draft pick?
steveinohio
Reds are looking to buy low on Gray. Pretty interesting. If they can’t extend him will it effect what they give and/or what they get back?
Gray pitched different in New York. Less fastball and more cutter. Less attack This could be pretty good for them.
Boogaloo
Can someone explain what the hell the reds are doing?
Sonny Gray would be the Yankees 8th choice to start a game.
Yet they are giving up a draft pick, a decent prospect and taking on his salary?
What sense does this make? Or any of their other moves?
Hell, even if all their moves worked out theyre still probably not making the playoffs and everyone is a free agent and a bunch of prospects are gone.
One of the oddest strategies I’ve ever seen.
It truly makes no sense.
CONservative governMENt
Reds attendance dropped 11% this year, lowest since 1984. Attendance has declined 5 straight years and they finished in last place for the 4th consecutive year.
We can debate the wisdom of their moves and the short-term v. long-term impact, but this is why they are doing what they are doing.
slpdajab55
With all the moves they have done they still have their core prospects. None of the top 5 were moved … yet. It’s been repeated on here but they can flip these players at the trade deadline for prospects if this doesn’t work. I think how much this can help this team is understated. I actually like the strategy.
ckeen1966
First trade Tanner Rainey for Tanner Roark, Rainey tops out as a decent relief pitcher at best, Roark is a rotation stabilizer.
Second trade Homer Bailey and his $28 million contact along with the Reds being 1-19 in his 20 starts plus two promising prospects that are at least 2-3 years away for Puig, Kemp, Wood and a bench piece plus $7 million. Nobody was going to take Bailey’s albatross of a contract without getting something in return. Puig is a starter, Kemp will split time with Winker, both should thrive in Great American Smallpark. Wood is another rotation stabilizer.
Shed Long is blocked by Gennett and Senzel, he’s a good hitter but not a good defensive 2nd baseman. If they can extend Gray for 3-4 years total, it could be a good deal for the Reds. They are betting on a change of scenery and reunion with his collegiate pitching coach turning him around.
The Reds offense is excellent, Votto, Suarez, Winker and Gennett are all great OBP guys, as stated earlier Puig and Kemp should excel in that small ballpark, Jose Peraza quietly had an excellent 2018 at the plate. Senzel is going to play, a lot. Whether he is the everyday CF’er or in a Ben Zobrist role, he’s going to play. The rotation has been upgraded and the bullpen should improve simply by not being so overworked due to such an inept rotation. The coaching staff has been completely overhauled, there is a whole new culture now. This all had to happen because they are losing their fan base in droves, we are sick and tired of losing 95 games a year. And if they aren’t in contention at the deadline, Scooter Gennett, Puig, Kemp, Wood and Roark all become trade pieces and the Reds will only have around $65-$80 million in contracts on the books for 2020. They can trade for pitching and sign free agent position players, it’s a hitter friendly park.
Goetta
Agreed. People are getting worked up over the Reds offseason but if you look at the big picture they have done quite well. Say they lose Sonny Gray after this year. If they make him a qualifying offer they will gain a draft pick which they can use on say, a college player who would only be 2 or 3 years away. Then you trade Shed Long or Tanner Rainey or Jeter Downs for either potential long term pieces in the rotation or replenish the system with comp picks. If they address center field, their lineup can hang with any in the NL on paper. Adding legitimate pieces to the rotation along with the potential emergence of Mahle, Castillo and company will make them interesting if not dangerous.
RedRooster
I doubt whether any of these guys get QO’s
#RedsNation
Your opinion is highly valued as always
ckeen1966
I have been a Reds fan since 1974, I watch between 75-100 games a year. The Reds had a stretch last year where they played as well as any team in the league. The key was everyone was healthy and they were getting good starting pitching. Then they traded Adam Duvall to Atlanta and a week or so later Jesse Winker was injured and out for the season. Castillo is an ace in the making, he just needs to put a full season together. I’m going to be laughing at all the “experts” in June and July when they start realizing how good this team can be. They are going to give everyone fits, if they played in the east, they would be in it for sure. The NL Central will be the best division in baseball in 2019.
#RedsNation
Once they moved winker to the 5 spot they really took off. I’m interested to see how bell constructs the lineup. In a perfect world I see senzel playing CF and leading off followed by votto for protection and high OBP. Then you still get to slot in Suarez, scooter, puig and winker after that. Lineup will be scary good.
RedRooster
If “protection” were actually a thing wouldn’t Senzel’s OBP be higher without Votto batting behind him? Cuz the pitcher would just be walking Senzel every time he came up to bat, thus artificially inflating his OBP?
#RedsNation
Did you even read what you just wrote? You have officially been deemed a troll in my eyes, and I will no longer entertain the validity of any of your opinions. Have fun talking to no one.
RedRooster
Oh no! You’re not happy with what I said, and the fact that it’s true, so you’re just gonna call me a troll? Laughable.
If Senzel didn’t have “protection” or whatever, then that would mean he isn’t getting any good pitches to hit. Which means he just walks a bunch. Thus, inflating his OBP.
Ty1990
You officially have no idea what you are talking about and lack any form of baseball knowledge. Go back to reading ESPN articles on the Yankees. Cubs, and Dodgers because you clearly know nothing about the Reds.
RedRooster
I forget more about baseball when I sneeze than you will ever know. Go drink some breast milk and go back to watching Dragon Tales.
captainchaos55
Everyone in this line up has protection. It’s like the Trojan Express
earmbrister
Lmao
Willy Mays
I am nota Reds fan but on last year Scooter Gennet and Votto were on my fantasy team so I kept upon the Reds.I agree with you that they could surprise if Roark Gray and Wood perform well.Last year iafter there horrendous start they were an interesting team.Considering Votto could definitely have a better year this year with Suarez Gennet and others they could have a pretty scaryoffense this year.I can see the Cubs and Brewers coming back to the pack and the Reds being at least somewhat in the mix. The Brewers are a good team but I don’t see Yelich repeating his amazing year (another member of my fantasy team btw) and the Cubs pitching staff not great with their ace aging.
Corey Quinter
I wonder how long the negotiating window is open.
ckeen1966
Back when the Reds traded for Griffey, it was 72 hours. I imagine that it still is.
Colorado Red
It is 72 hours, and it ends today, just not sure when.
RedRooster
I don’t think these guys know what “finalizing” means.
Kwflanne
Seriously… there have been about 10-12 updates on the sonny gray “close to being dealt” in the last 3-4 days.
steveinohio
Pretty stoked on the Reds offseason. Good job on their part!
Strike Four
“72 hour negotiation window” – what is this?
johnrealtime
The Reds have 72 hours to work out an extension with him. At the conclusion of that 72 hours they will make the trade or decide not to
Strike Four
But who sets this window? Is it law? It seems like a made-up thing.
RedRooster
I think the commissioner’s has to approve it but if both teams agree to it they usually do. They did this when the Blue Jays traded for R.A. Dickey and I believe when the Red Sox traded for Adrian Gonzalez. The Phillies and White Sox tried to do this with Manny Machado last offseason but the Orioles said no.
johnrealtime
I’m surprised you are just now hearing about this. It has been a common practice in sports trades for quite a long time
GarryHarris
“72 hour negotiation window” I’ve seen that before where the receiving team is given 72 hrs to negotiate an extension before the trade is final.
Bertin Lefkovic
I predict Gray gets 2/24, 3/33, or 4/42.5 starting in 2020.
Bertin Lefkovic
I wonder if Gray’s extension will make the agents for Roark and Wood less or more interested in getting similar extensions for their clients.
RedRooster
“Yankees, Reds “Finalizing” Sonny Gray Trade”
“A resolution on a Yankees-Reds trade is not expected tonight”
Which one is it?
AngelDiceClay
Yankees this Yankees that. What is that 14 updates this weekend on The Gray trade
Boogaloo
What do you want then to do, report on teams no one cares about, like the angels?
RedRooster
It’s like watching paint dry…
bobtillman
720 replies for a post on Sonny flippin’ Gray………Can’t imagine what would happen if Red Sox were in “negotiations” to trade Blake Swihart…….
captainchaos55
722
trace
Cancel the rest of this “offseason.”
timewalk42
If the terms being stated are true what a bad trade for the Yanks Gray even with a bad season is worth more than a average minor league and a future draft pick
#RedsNation
But Cashman is a demigod…
ctguy
Considering that Gray can’t pitch in Yankee Stadium, this is a good deal for NY. They didn’t give up much to get him ( 2 injured minor leaguers and another that they had no place for). After last season they have to be glad to be able to send Gray elsewhere.
RedRooster
A one-year rental who had a 4.90 ERA last year who it was known his team wanted to get rid of? They were lucky to get Shed Long alone for Gray. Let alone Shed Long and that draft pick.
bobtillman
You go redrooster…..you got it!!!! An “iffy” prospect is all that Cinnci SHOULD give…..but I haven’t exactly been overwhelmed by their moves this offseason….
Maybe if the Yanks re-acquire Rob Refsnyder and put him in the deal……
RedRooster
Hey, they’re trading for Shed Long. Not Eugenio Suarez!
#RedsNation
Was it all part of cashmans master plan in getting the most out of his players making it publicly known that gray would be traded. That’s next level
captainchaos55
Just curious ….what’s the record for replies?
earmbrister
Dunno about the record for replies, but redrooster has the record for dumb replies.
RedRooster
Shut up. You’ll never be half the man your mother is.
earmbrister
Witty
Fanof29teams
Now sign keuchel and trade for Eaton ( Washington will sign Harper ) than Cincinnati has a very good chance at winning the division.
#RedsNation
Would love Keuchel, but there’s no way the reds have money for that. If they could somehow find away to unload Kemp they would be players.
redhaze1
The Reds need an ACE. I hope they get Kluber or Keuchel. If we are going for it then let’s really go for it. The fans are tired of losing.
Rowsdower
I’m a Reds fan as well, I wouldn’t pay the price for Kluber. We need Senzel, Green, Trammell for the future.
redhaze1
We have been playing for the future for the last seven years. The Red Sox and Yanks have no problem trading a prospect for a proven player. Kluber is a two time Cy Young pitcher with control through 2021.
#RedsNation
Who knows what the indians are asking for. Obviously kluber is a top flight pitcher, but both his age and salary diminish his value. Not all top 5 pitchers are valued equally those things do matter
Rowsdower
First, There’s a lot to blame on the ownership and front office of the Reds that have caused this rebuild to fail. 1. They gave out bad contracts to aging players (Brandon Phillips and Homer Bailey specifically) 2. We did not have enough roster turnover and held on to players far to long and didn’t maximize their peak trade value (Cozart, Cueto, Frazier, etc) 3. The prospects returned in packages have been awful (Chapman and Cueto deals specially)
Next, getting Kluber will not make us playoff contenders unless we then sign or trade for a CF and another bullpen arm and the Reds are at max salary right now after the addition of Kemp, Roark, Puig, and Wood and it seems unlikely Kemp can be dealt without paying the majority of his salary.
Third, going back to one of my earlier points, bad contracts to aging players. This has crippled the Reds in the past, big market teams (NYY and Sox, etc) can absorb this and still get top free agents and international players. We simply cannot, we must be smarter about roster turnover and building a farm system.
Let me bring all this together and tell you what the Reds must do to be successful. They need to trade Scooter Gennett and Scott Schebler for a CFer and a bullpen arm. They need to put Senzel at 2B immediately. After next season, you take the 60 million or so dollars that came off the books and you A. Resign Puig if possible B. Resign one of the pitchers we traded for (I prefer Alex Wood) C. Take remaining funds and sign another SP to take the place of Roark D. Let Trammell develop and then bring him up in 2020/2021 and man CF.
More trades can and should happen but that’s a quick plan for a successful future of our beloved Reds.
its_happening
Shouldn’t Cincy have all the leverage here? Seems like they’re negotiating on their heels. Yanks are the ones desperate to get rid of Sonny Gray.
And Cincy’s working on extending Gray? Home/Road splits or not, Gray’s coming off a bad year. Does not make sense unless Cincy’s front office is as bad as people say.
Can’t see Reds fans being happy about this. Could be wrong….
slpdajab55
Well… as a Reds fan.. this kind of puts things in perspective. By that I mean .. that’s how freakin bad it was last year. It makes Sonny boy look like Nolan Ryan
luclusciano
So one bad year means he can no longer be the effective pitcher he was? I don’t understand this logic.
slpdajab55
I was referring to the Reds rotation was that bad. Not Sonny Gray .. Sonny Gray is like Nolan Ryan compared to the trash rotation we had last year
Core4
Yeah, but there’s a 72hour window to negotiate a deal. If the reds aren’t satisfied with the outcome, they simply don’t go thru with it.
Not to mention, I’m sure Grays struggles in 2018 would show in the money he receives from the reds in a extension.
Why would reds fans be upset at this point? They mite not even be getting Gray at all., and they mite be getting him at a solid price, if they even do. Shoot, even though i like the return for the yanks, it’s not overly hurtful to the reds with guys like Senzel and India more touted infield prospects and Suarez and Peraza already obviously in the infield fold.
pjc1966
Yanks are not desperate to get rid of Gray. He’s already been replaced in the rotation. He’d be competing for a depth role against Cessa, Loasiga and Adams in Spring Training. It’s not like opening day is tomorrow. Just maximize whatever value he has and get the best deal you can, even if you have to wait until the end of Spring Training. Someone will start the year on the DL and want an established starter, even one coming off a poor season.
its_happening
If the Yanks aren’t desperate to get rid of Gray, keep him. If he’s been replaced, as you say, they are desperate to get rid of him. Yeah, they are desperate to get rid of Gray.
Randia
Trim reaper are you really that stupid he had one bad year and still finished above .500 why would the reds want to extend him if he was garbage. The Yankees are playing this smart. And no they aren’t desparate. They have other teams lined up if this falls through. How is that being desparate.
Other teams are this as a chance to get a former top of the rotation starter cheap. And they are chomping at the bit lining up to get him because they know NY can be too hard on some people and they can’t handle the pressure.
#RedsNation
They are playing it smart and not desperate to move him yet they let it be known publicly that he would be traded. Interesting pov
RedRooster
It was all part of the plan!
ksoze
Obviously it was part of the plan, considering that they were very vocal about trading him. The question is does that make it a good plan. We will see how it pans out.
Dbird777
The Ottavino signing means the Yanks have 41 players on their 40-man. So, yeah, they are kinda desperate to get rid of Gray lol.
RedRooster
Shed Long is on the 40. If this trade occurs as presently constituted the Yanks still have to DFA someone.
Begamin
luis cessa traded for int pool money should be the yankees move. but theyll probably just dfa him since it doesnt seem like any talks about luis cessa going anywhere
Kwflanne
Yet another non-update update…. thanks MLBTR
luclusciano
Actually – they are keeping us up to date with rumors? Not sure why people don’t like this. Just sign up for your team on another site and you can learn when they pick someone up.
We have learned players involved and that more may be involved of an extension is agreed to. Definitely an update.
ksoze
Right, i don’t get people who complain about reading these articles. DON’T READ them. I only get alerts when it comes to Reds rumors. I signed up for them because they are of interest to me. If I decided that I am no longer interested I would stop the alerts.
Begamin
the update is about the Reds wanting to extend Gray. its an integral part of the trade. i know reading comprehension is tough sometimes
trace
Take your time, nobody is in any rush to get anything done.
rockrolen65
This is starting to remind me of another “Homer” deal !!
joncoley
How many of these updates do we have to read?!? Just pull the trigger already!!!
lowtalker1
Let’s be real. There is no way Grey will sign an extension on the heels of free agency.
pjc1966
Under normal conditions, I would agree with that. Given the fate many free agents have faced these past two offseason, and his less than stellar performance, he might think more seriously about guaranteed money.
lowtalker1
Let me fix that. On the heels of free agency. There is no way he signs an extension with a team in the basement that has a tiny ballpark
Prospectnvstr
Grey may not agree to an extension BUT Sonny Gray might look at it as money in the bank NOW is better than what MAY not be offered next year.
zacbinks
Go ahead Yankees, take the other deal.
padam
July 31, 2019 – both the Yankees and Reds are close to finalizing the final papers that are necessary to finalize the deal…
Can we just stop posting this one? Post it when it’s final. It’s painful seeing recycled articles over and over each time someone tweets something.
Begamin
What, did you just blow in from stupid town?
padam
nope. just your mom’s.
sethesq
Okay, I can understand rolling the dice on the chance he regains his consistent/reliable innings eater status … but hitching your wagon for a few years via an extension before you have any indication that bounce back is likely?
*boggle*
#RedsNation
You have absolutely no idea of the terms being discussed
JJB
I hope it falls through and they get somebody better than Shed Long. He’s practically a MIDGET, and unless somebody is as good as Altuve, they won’t survive long in the bigs being so tiny.
Dan Miller
The Yankees should be glad to get ANYONE for Sonny Gray. There are a dozen Sonny Grays available in free agency; why anyone would give up anything more than a low level, long shot prospect is beyond me.
Dbird777
This “jjb” guy sounds like the weasel that was trolling the Reds’ Reddit page the other day. Same “argument,” same insults. Until he got booted, lol.
Word to the troll: that the Yankees accepted the Reds’ trade offer means you’re not getting a better deal. Say hi to your midget Brett Gardner for us, though.
YourDaddy
Dumas, if Cash could have gotten anyone better than Long he would have traded with the other teams. Stop making Yankees fans look bad.
AngelDiceClay
This trade has taken so long, Are you sure this not the July non waiver dead line.???
megaj
Could possibly see 5 teams at or above .500. IMO, if injuries are not as big a factor this season it will end up 1. Cubs 2. Cards 3. Brewers/Reds coin flip 5. Pirates.
Prospectnvstr
Brewers, Cubs, cards/pirates, reds. 95 wins takes the division and 75-87 is the bottom.
Hoostino
As a Cubs fan, I’m not looking forward to playing any team in the Central. Should be fun!
Dbird777
We’re going to cannibalize each other more so than in years past. But that’ll just make our division winner stronger in the playoffs. It might keep the rest of the teams in the Central out of the Wild Card though if we beat each other up. Especially with the Nats healthy again and Philly getting better.
DockEllisDee
NL Central champs over/under 92 wins? I seriously can’t emphatically decide one way or another
slpdajab55
Under
Vanilla Good
Jeff, can we start a new thread for this? You know, “Sonny Gray rumors 1/21/19” or something? My thumb is getting sore from swiping all the way down to the bottom. #firstworldproblems
braves95 2
December 2037
Reds/Sonny Gray deal close, per source.
– Jon Heyman
RedRooster
Nailed it
whyhayzee
Which happens first, the sonny gray trade or the wall?
Just keep reading the tweets for clues.
Begamin
i say the gray trade. the dems refuse to even discuss terms. at least both parties are willing to talk to each other here
Padres458
Blows my mind this guy is even up for an extension. People think half your body of work just doesnt matter?
Prospectnvstr
His CAREER overall #’s do in fact warrant a (decent/moderate)extension. His year as a Yankee, not so much.
@DaOldDerbyBastard
Taking their sweet ass time on this one.
Begamin
theyre not making the trade to entertain you
YourDaddy
Actually they are. All sports are entertainment businesses.
dalekj
Who knew that a trade involving a buy low pitcher going to a that may compete for the 2nd WC and a decent prospect going to a team that has no clear need for a prospect playing the position the prospect plays would take a week of very public negotations. You’d think this was a trade of like Kershaw for Vlad Jr for all the coverage its’ getting and how in depth the negotiations have been.
YourDaddy
Today’s window for the Reds to extend Gray ended at 5 pm EST. Cash didn’t get the trade done and Long plus a #36 overall pick was far better than I thought he would get. Who is next on his list?
megaj
Doubt if Gray makes that much impact for the Reds, Too many other strong teams in that division. Other than the Reds, ANY of the other 4 teams could either finish 1st or 4th it is really that close, yes even Pittsburgh could surprise us. Cubs, on paper have most rounded club but always injured. Milwaukee has best bullpen and best coach, but not a very formidable rotation. Cardinals have a seriously good lineup and then Hicks/Miller to close out games is going to be tough. Pittsburgh may not have too much offensively, but they have quality starters and solid back end of the bullpen.
ksoze
LOL, alway a troll
Yankeepatriot
Rosenthal states that the extension for gray is 3 years 30.5 million