11:19am: MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand tweets that the Yankees had offers from multiple teams they’d have accepted for Gray as of last Friday, so if talks with the Reds don’t pan out, those proposals could once again come into play.
Jan. 21, 10:08am: Heyman tweets that there’s some optimism from the Reds that they’ll be able to work out an extension before today’s window closes. However, if the extension doesn’t materialize (and, thus, the currently proposed trade does not go through), the Yankees may “look elsewhere” for a trade partner for Gray.
Jan. 20, 4:56pm: A resolution on a Yankees-Reds trade is not expected tonight, and a deadline on a 72-hour negotiation window between Gray and Cincy is sometime late on Monday, Rosenthal tweets.
11:03am: The Reds are indeed attempting to extend Gray, according to Heyman, who adds the two teams have agreed on a trade package. But whether Gray gets an extension could affect the return for him.
10:37am: It’s possible the Reds are trying to sign Gray to an extension before acquiring him, Rosenthal tweets, though he notes a deal could come together either way.
Jan. 19, 6:08pm: The two sides are “finalizing” the deal, per Heyman, who reports the Yankees will likely receive Long and a draft pick. The Yankees could also land a third piece in the trade, Heyman suggests.
2:31pm: Per Heyman, the Reds would prefer not to include Stephenson in a deal for Gray, and talks now “center around” Long. Stephenson, 22, was the 11th overall selection in the 2015 draft, and has steadily progressed through the Cincinnati farm. In last month’s update, Kiley McDaniel and Eric Longenhagen of Fangraphs projected the 6’4″ righty as an average regular, lauding his double-plus arm and 60 grade raw power. Long also projects as a regular, though perhaps not at second, where he has “below average hands” and “clunky footwork,” per Fangraphs’ scouting report.
Jan. 19, 9:02am: Expect Gray to be moved sometime this weekend, per Fancred’s Jon Heyman (Twitter link). The Reds and Yankees are inching closer to a deal, with two prospects and a draft pick the expected return for Gray. Long and Stephenson (currently the #6 and #7 prospects in the Reds system per MLB.com) are the prospects most likely to be headed to New York. It’s not a done deal, however, as the Giants, Brewers, and Braves are still part of the conversation.
Jan. 18, 4:55pm: There are other teams still involved, per Andy Martino of SNY.tv (Twitter link), including at least the Padres and Giants. There have been some discussions of three-team arrangements, Martino also notes.
Jan. 18, 2:33pm: The Reds are “making progress” in their talks with the Yankees regarding veteran righty Sonny Gray, according to Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic (via Twitter). It emerged yesterday that the Yanks were nearing a deal involving the starter, though multiple organizations were still said to be involved in talks.
It seems fair now to assume that the Cincinnati club is emerging as a favorite, though it’s certainly too soon to rule out alternatives. The Reds have already added a pair of starters via trade in Tanner Roark and Alex Wood. Like those hurlers, Gray is entering his final season of arbitration eligibility. He’ll earn $7.5MM after agreeing to terms with the Yankees, making him a bit less costly than the other two pitchers.
The potential return remains to be seen, and obviously hasn’t quite been nailed down. Jon Heyman of Fancred reports (Twitter links) that the organizations are still discussing different prospects — second baseman Shed Long and catcher Tyler Stephenson among them — while a draft pick could also be part of the return. (That would have to be the Reds’ 2019 competitive balance pick, which is a valuable sandwich-round selection currently slotted in at No. 36 overall.)
If they can wrap up an agreement, the Reds would certainly present quite a different rotation than the ones they have trotted out in recent years. Roark, Wood, and (hypothetically) Gray all have their warts, but each has found plenty of success in the majors. They’d likely join Anthony DeSclafani and hard-throwing Luis Castillo to round out the starting five under new manager David Bell.
It’s notable, of course, that none of Roark, Wood or Gray comes with control rights beyond the ’19 season. The same is also true of recently acquired outfielders Yasiel Puig and Matt Kemp. It’s possible that the Reds simply prefer one-year commitments at this time, which would allow them the chance to reevaluate their future needs after the conclusion of the 2019 season.
Hitter friendly park..not the best play for him to go but regardless they definitely are upgrading their club and should be a lot better this season
He will sign with Milwaukee
Since Gray’s not a free agent yet that will have to wait until next offseason.
No, he should not. He should follow Derek Johnson to cincinatti and be part of ownership’s effort to boost attendance to not violate their loan terms. Cin is going to be a team to watch at the trade deadline, so many veteran expiring contracts.
I don’t think you know what’s going on here.
Dumb.
Please end this painful situation
Agreed .. Sonny Gray and the dreadful Antonio Brown saga ..
This would be Cherry on top to a awesome off-season by yanks. Giving there system a nice little boost for Gray, after taking care of business with the ML club already. Love my yanks !
Better not be expecting too much of a boost. He’s not going to get a huge return.
Shed Long and Stephenson alone would be a good get for Gray. All the prospects we gave up for Gray haven’t amounted to squat and both Long and Stephenson still have there prospect appeal , and would help get some prospect position player depth back am9ng the ranks, as the yanks have a pitching heavy prospect load right now. Stephenson has a cannon for a arm and is big guy with a bit of pop and still upside, why Long gives us a well rounded player who can do a bit of everything , and hasent really disappointed on his climb thru the ranks, and don’t hurt he hits lefty,
The reason this team turned around so quickly from a old broken down team that had to many underachieving big contracts to a 100win team was a infusion of young legit prospects. We’ve used the lot well in recent yrs, time to build it upa bit again.
Never give those two up for Gray bad move for the Reds, for a one yr. rental?
They will not. The yanks were looking at either/or Williams would be stupid to trade those two for grey and he is not stupid.
I don’t know what you’re expecting in return for Gray but if I were to guess by inferring tone to your post you are going to be dissapointed.
How is elsbury working out for you?
Terrible, but what exactly does he have to do with Sonny Gray?
Yankees fans attach Ellsbury to nearly every trade they propose. Wouldn’t be shocked to hear a “Gray and Ellsbury for the Reds #3rd, 7th and 10th ranked prospects” proposal.
Lazy take.
No one would say such nonsense…. Except you of course.
Looks like Cincy are en route to building another big red machine from their rotation this season. They could turn some heads and surprise some folks in 2019. I’m pulling for them. The Central is officially stacked.
Nooooooo
Going from one bandbox to another doesn’t seem like the best move for him, but it’s a trade so this is all about the best move for the Yankees.
Was Gray’s problem the ballpark or the pressure of playing in NY? It’s too small a sample to be of much worth, but Gray did have 1 start at GABP. He went 7 2/3 and gave up 2 runs on 5 hits, with 1 BB and 4 SOs. Reds must be banking on it being the pressure.
Does one even count as a sample size?
Yes it does snarky. If your team brought in a pitcher and he went 7 2/3 with a 2.35 ERA, a .0783 WHIP, and gave up zero HRs in a bandbox, I suppose you wouldn’t be encouraged.
I also said: “It’s too small a sample to be of much worth…”
It was the bandbox. Look at his starts outside the little league sized field in NY and he looks much better.
Teeny, tiny right field, warm, humid air, there are several HRs a year hit there that would be routine outs in every other stadium save maybe Fenway.
Fenway has a very large RF unless you hit it within 5 ft of the foul line.
Look at Gray’s career splits home and away. He doesn’t pitch well at home. Never has.
Gray’s problem is that he isn’t very good anymore.
Called it!! Reds’ Pitching Coach is the key.
There’s been multiple articles written for weeks about the Reds being a possibilty in a trade. So give it a rest already!
Not to mention that it hasn’t even happened yet
You said a week ago it was gonna be for Taylor Trammell..smh
No, Sherman said Yanks asked for Trammell.
I was facetious, and know you read that article. Whatever Gray ultimately ends up getting traded for — if the Reds— won’t be Taylor Trammell..smh. Cmon cereal, You’re supposed to be on my side!
Here’s the article that was the source of my joke:
nypost.com/2018/12/10/yankees-asked-for-stud-reds-…
We had a good laugh about that.
That link must’ve been taken down. It’s all good though.
just came here to see a Yankee fan say they are getting Senzel
RED$. Wild Card. . . Go Big or Go Home.
as crazy as it sounds, you’re absolutely right. (almost) everything the Reds have picked up are set to be free agents after 2019. if it works, then great. if it doesn’t, then blow it up and begin a rebuild for 2020 and beyond. I don’t necessarily see the Reds taking the division, but I can definitely see them challenging for a WC spot.
I’ll go, 79-83
I’d say your prediction of 79 W’s is very close, certainly not a WC team even with Gray
Just yesterday, on this site, the story stated Reds were not a team involved.
They only report what the rumors are. Not their fault if one of the bigger writers got it wrong.
But it is their fault if they continue to report things from that writer afterwards.
I’d say don’t come to a site with “rumor” in the title if you only want facts.
Ah you only want the rumors that are facts, huh?
if they stopped mentioning every report from every reporter who was wrong once there would be nothing to report
RedRoaster;
So if Einstein’s first-ever theory proved wrong, you’d throw out his Theory of Relativity along with everything else he ever thought?
it is possible that they weren’t involved yesterday but became involved today
You are right. If I were you, I’d sue to get your money back.
Yesterday? There article from 22 hours ago does in fact list the Reds as a potential landing spot.
mlbtraderumors.com/2019/01/yankees-trade-rumors-so…
They posted a statement from Heyman later that he wasn’t a little after that so all they did was post about the info they got from a media source and now they are doing it again.
Maybe MLBtraderumors isn’t for you.
*shakes fist at cloud
Cincy already has a decent bullpen, and abover average offense. Now they’re putting together a decent rotation filled with a bunch of #3’s and #4’s. I really wouldn’t be surprised if the cubs or brewers are unable to make the playoffs. National league is extremely deep this year.
This trade makes no sense unless they think Luis Castillo is going to turn into the one this year (unlikely tho)
… Neo?
Follow the white rabbit
Feed your head.
He was impressive the last month and a half of last season. He just needs 3 be more consistent.
A pretty decent rotation doesn’t have a bunch of 3’s and 4’s. That’s the exact opposite of a decent rotation. Reds have 3 3’s in Wood, Castillo, Roark. A 5 in DeSclafani, and are looking for a 5 with the chance of being a 3 in Gray. That below average at best.
Roark is a 2
Roark is not a 2. Not even close. He might be the Reds number 2 but that doesn’t change the fact that a legit contender spent big money to sign the best free agent starter and found Roark expendable and moved him for a mere top 20 team prospect. He’s depth or and innings eater a 4 maybe. A 5 or a long reliever on a true contender
3+3+3+5+5=3.8. That’s almost the definition of average
Andriod… your system values the rotation backwards, so you would want the smallest number possible so a 3.8 is below average.
Look at it like this though:
Average rotation – Reds rotation
1 – 3
2 – 3
3 – 3
4 – 5
5 – 5
In every one of those you are below average or average. None of them are above average so I don’t know how you could call it a decent rotation?
Compare that to 5+5+5+5+5= average of 5. So it is improved with a top tier offense. Let’s see how it plays out. We all can sit here now and say this or that. Truth is we all are clueless…that’s why they play the games.
If the Reds go with starting a RP and then put in the starter 4 2/4 can go a long way.
The Brewers are primed to fall in the division. They have no middle infield and shaky starting pitching. Reds are going to make it interesting, but I still think the Cards and Cubs are the cream of the division.
Wonder who they give up…
I like the giants or A’s scenario Bc they have a big ball park and sonny gray seems to thrive in big ball parks
A’s maybe, but going to the Giant’s is highly unlikely. The Giants aren’t going to trade any of their thin number of prospects, and I don’t see any of the MLB guys being a fit. I doubt the Giants trade either Smith or Watson, for him, nor do I see any positional guys going. Belt makes the most sense for NY, but no way they give up Belt for Gray.
when the Cubs finish in fourth >>>>>
It could happen, but so could 3 other teams in the NL Central. Doubtful the Cards, too much pitching. But the Pirates are improved, just by being healthy, Brewers proved their potency in 2018, and I agree a wild Card team from the Central will be tough, especially with the weaker bottoms of the East and West.
look at the 2 teams’ line-ups. Reds have the better line-up and bullpen, at least on paper.
The Pirates will finish last this year in the NL Central. The Reds have made some serious upgrades. While not enough to push them to a divisional title in 2019, they could make a run for a wild card spot. With their young core and cheap payroll, I could see them winning the division in the near future.
East is weak, no wild card team coming out of it
This one gonna end with a mystery team. Count on it.
I don’t understand why the Reds are trading for all these guys who will be free agents after next year. Braves, Mets, Nats, Phillies, Cubs, Brewers, Cards, Dodgers, and Rockies are still better than them. And, possibly Pirates, Giants, and D-backs. The Reds will fall short next year and all this does is set them back even more before they can actually contend.
Thank you for stating this what I have been wondering this whole time. Thought there must be something I was missing.
They have to do something for the fan base. Their attendance has been pitiful. They can hit, OK defense, and might challenge .500, and hopefully put some butts in the seats.
I wouldn’t say the Mets are better.
I’d suggest the front office guys realize they’re out if they don’t win this year, and so they’re going for it even if it isn’t smart.
The Red Birds have attendance and cash flow provisions in their existing loan agreements that they are in danger of violating and need to boost attendance in 2019.
Doesn’t that depend on who and what they give up? If all of these players are on 1 year deals then it means it won’t effect future payroll. In addition, if these players still have value then they can easily be flipped at the trade deadline even if it’s for non top 100 prospects. It might well be half-a$$ed attempt to compete but it at lease gives the Cincy fans reason to at least be engaged this season.
They are acquiring pieces with the hopes of seeing what they have at the end of the year and extending the ones they like. Instead of handcuffing them with a multi-year deal that could screw them over for several years, they are effectively giving up very little and acquiring lottery tickets that will at least make a semi competitive team. They haven’t exactly parted with a big prospect outside of Jeter Downs who doesn’t really have a spot in the foreseeable future, and managed to dump Homer Bailey’s contract. They also have the ability to flip a guy at the trade deadline if they aren’t competing for more than what they gave up.
@Chicks Dig the Longball
Completely agreed. It’s also worth pointing out that if any of these one-year players has a big year they can be tagged with the qualifying offer for draft compensation.
The Reds had to improve their pitching. It was either make these trades or go and try to sign Keuchel, Morton, and Happ for a total of $50-$60m a year, moves that are both risky and expensive.
Because they had less than 20K attending home games and less than 40K viewing games on the television. They should be scared of losing an entire generation of fans to the new MLS team. They may be too incompetent to trade for pieces under team control past this season.
Or, they’d rather not pay the additional prospect cost of acquiring long term pieces.
If they trade for a Kluber type, Cincy has to give future core players. These rentals are not setting the rebuild back at all.
They also aren’t helping the Reds become a successful winning ballclub.
To be fair they haven’t given up any truly premium prospects this offseason and most of the one-year guys they acquired plus the ones they already had going into the offseason like Scooter Gennett should have some trade value come the deadline so if (when) the Reds are out of it at the deadline they will be able to flip those guys. But knowing the Reds they will probably keep them because “You have to put a good product on the field” or “to gain the inside track to signing them” or some other b.s. reason like that.
I think They’re expecting to trade some of these guys at the deadline to kick off their rebuild. Trading two top-ten guys and a competitive pick (if that’s the deal) seems ass-backwards though.
They have their core signed and give their young another year while competing.
If indeed it is the Reds I could see the Yankees looking at Gutierrez or Mella and maybe a lower lever prospect Longhi. Fair warning though, my trade suggestions generally stink.
Better not be Gut, Mella at best. It’s one year of a guy looking to bounce back.
The Reds were often down 3-0 after the first inning last year, and often playing from behind. If they have just an average rotation, that can keep them close, and get to what was a very solid bullpen, they will be fun to watch.
Yanks should trade Gray for Votto.
175 Mil left on his contract.
Sure you can have him
132 if you buy out his last year.
Marty and Thom Brenneman, is that you? All Votto does is rake, year in, year out. In a “down” year like 2018 he still had an OPS+ of 125. The prior three years were 174, 160, and 167. He’ll work on his power this offseason, and he’ll bounce back.
Votto is the ultimate professional. Don’t know what you two are thinking.
Not a fan of these two teams… and Votto is still a great hitter, bug you absolutely trade that contract if you can. His age 35-38 seasons are still not what you want to pay that money for
He has a full NTC and is on record saying he has zero interest in being traded. Dude takes and loves CIN, so I highly doubt he every plays for another team.
Gray pitched to a 3.17 ERA and over a K per inning on the road last year. Put him in the NL, that ERA drops down to 2.17z. He’s definitely worth Votto and a #1 prospect.
He also had a 6.41 ERA against teams with a winning record. I wouldn’t get your hopes up too high.
All AL teams and mostly at home. Thanks for proving my point.
Ah, ok. He can pitch against bad teams and the NL. Got it now. You’re right, that’s absolutely worth a #1 prospect.
Ignore it, this guy’s a troll, no one could really think this
“worth votto and a #1 prospect” lmao this guy
I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt that that was tongue-in-cheek lol. But if he’s a Yankees fan, that would make me less hopeful 😉
Lmao, A: Votto has a no trade clause and wants to stay in Cin. B: You do realize that going by park factors, Great American Ball Park is much more hitter friendly than Yankee Stadium, right? C: Gray has one year left of control left. The only way they could get Votto+ is if Gray had pitched like a Cy Young candidate last season with 3+ years remaining.
Average ERA in the AL last year was 4.27 and in the NL was 4.02 but you’re gonna just assume a full point drop by switching leagues? Especially into a division with some of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball?
I don’t know why people always bring up Votto. Even if Cinci wanted to trade him Votto has full no trade and by all accounts likes it Cinci. He seems like a guy that doesn’t want the spotlight so he would hate NY, Bos, LA. He isn’t going anywhere.
They’re just arguing trade values more than actual trades. I believe Votto to still be really good and Gray is not but as Cincy you have to think about such a trade just to lose the end of that contract. Obviously wouldn’t make sense if you’re Cincy and your going for it, but let’s face it, Cincy going for it doesn’t make any sense.
Hahahaa!! No.
@fathead As a Yankee fan I’m going to say that The Reds need to give up Senzel for Gray. Lol How’s that ? Did I do good? Dopey
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Reds traded the Yankees Tanner Roark to get him. Even though C.C. Sabathia is cleared to pitch they’ll still need pitching. Roark isn’t spectacular but he’s stable and could pitch anywhere. He’d at least get them through the regular season. Alex Wood is too high of a price to pay, which is why I’m saying Tanner Roark.
If the Reds traded Roark and a low ranked prospect, I don’t see any other team reaching higher unless they want to overpay on Sonny Gray.
Yanks are not looking to add a pitcher with a worse HR/9 than Even Gray has. Sorry bud you’re dead wrong.
I called it yesterday ! Not expecting much in return but nobody is if they are being honest
Nice to see a team trying to better themselves rather than tanking like so many teams did last year.
“Progress” and “Sonny Gray” should not be used in the same sentence.
These moves for 1 year players seem like an ownership that wants to increase attendance. That’s understandable, but also somewhat of a chancy way of going about it. What happens if Cincy doesn’t really improve much in the standings and then, in 2020, revert right back to what they have been the past several seasons?
I’ve always thought of 1 years rentals, for the most part, as players to put a team over the top. Much like mid season trades for players on expiring contracts. If Gray is acquired by the reds, that would make 5 such contracts/players. That’s a possible 5 that would then need to be filled, again, after the 2019 season. It just doesn’t feel like smart business tactics.
I believe making an effort to put a competitive team on the field every year is good for fans and business.
Yes, but through development and trades that net long term pieces. Not a slew of 1 year expiring contracts.
Long term pieces would cost the Reds their best prospects. They can easily recoup the prospects they gave up and then some by dealing Puig and Wood at the deadline.
plus it gives the prospects another year of development time.
And the guys that have been traded by the Reds so far were behind higher ranked prospects at their position.
We’ve got a lot of money coming off the books next year, so it’s expected we’ll do some serious FA shopping after this season’s over.
Reds and FA shopping don’t go hand in hand. The largest FA contract was Coco Cordero .
We’re upping our payroll 30 mil this year, so that portends good things.
You said it yourself, they could do it again next year. They are avoiding financially crippling themselves in favor of flexibility. Like a guy for the future, they can extend him or sign him next offseason. Don’t like him, try to flip him at the deadline. I would be acquiring as many 1 year deal guys as I can.
That’s exactly what they’re doing, and why not? It beats sitting on your hands waiting for prospects to develop since they haven’t been able to sign FA because of financial constraints. I know I’ll be at the BP more next year!!
As long as they aren’t blocking a mlb ready prospect and the commitment doesn’t last past 2019 then what’s the downside on some of these 1 year rentals? As long as “real prospects” aren’t be used to get him there’s little downside.
Yep and the players are playing for the next contract.
Worst case, they offer Puig, Wood, and Gennett QO’s at the end of the year, and get draft picks.
Throw Gray into that mix as well if he bounces back which in the NL is a strong possibility
Yes. Gray pitching for NYY is like putting a motorcycle engine in a Peterbilt.
Gray for Scooter swap. Get it done, Cash
We have DJ though
Three way deal:
Reds get Gray & Hicks
Indians get Andujar & Scooter
Yanks get Kluber
Ok, i gotta go, my bus is leaving.
So the Yanks would open up holes in CF and 3B? No.
They already have a hole at 3B
Yes they do. He hit 47 dbls and 27 hrs in his rookie season and when Boone posts the lineup he has the “3B” next to his name if that helps you.
He’ll be a full time 1B or DH by the end of the 2019 season. Book it.
Really!!! One of the top rookies last year.
*an a hole at 3b
Him being one of the top rookies last year was due to his bat. He’ll still be able to do that as a DH.
Indians would not agree. Andujar’s defense is mediocre at best and Klube ris a Cy Young candidate.
I know it’s a crazy trade that wouldn’t happen. That’s why I caught the bus.
Probably a little yellow one with a proposal like that
Yes, steeler, thanks for pointing out the obvious, and for clarifying exactly what I meant. Idiot.
With Romine a FA after this yr,Stephenson makes sense. Breaux and Seigler are aways off, and Stephenson is a pretty good defensive catcher with rocket arm. Long reminds me of Bip Roberts type of prospect
Or the Yanks can just resign Romine if he has another solid season like last year.
Stephenson makes sense if your a NYY fan. No way they’re giving up their # 6 prospect for a year of Gray. Nor their # 7 prospect in Long.
Think Mella at # 11. Someone (or two) outside the top 10 is more likely.
Can we agree that organizational rankings is relative to how good or bad the organization is? Yanks traded away Sheffield, Swanson and Williams. Sheff was our #1 but the other two weren’t even in our top 15 when traded. They immediately became 3 of Seattle’s top 12 immediately after the trade. If the Reds #8 but he’s rated as a B-/C prospect then he could be in play.
I agree that organizational rankings are relative. However, the Reds have a top 5 farm system. The NYY farm system is also quite strong. I’d look at the individual players ratings. I’m certainly not parting easily with a “60” player such as Senzel, Trammel, or Greene. I’m not parting with a 55 or 50 player for one year of Gray. That takes you to the Reds highest rated 45 player: Mella at # 11. I’d consider that a fair trade. The NYY have a bunch of 55 and 50 players through their # 12 prospect, for reference.
If the reds make the trade that Jon heyman is proposing with shed long or tyler Stephenson and a draft pick I will probably give up on the reds front office and they will be out the door fast as hell
The Reds have a million 2B in their system with Senzel or India likely to be the everyday 2B after Scooter leaves. Stephenson would be an overpay unless it was Robert Stephenson lol.
Shed Long is challenged defensively and blocked by at least two players in the organization. It is also possible Scooter resigns.
Why do the Reds want him anyway?
He was terrible last year, and a 1 year rental.
Just way NO
Come on SD, or ATL make a good offer.
So you’re logic is he was “bad” in 2018 but the Braves and Padres should get him tho?
Shed, Stevenson AND a comp pick? I’d tell the Yankees to take a f***ing hike. I’d give up Long, but not Stevenson and sure not the comp pick.
They can choose another prospect that’s NOT in our top 10
It doesn’t say they’re suggesting sending all 3, just that those are names that have come up.
“our” top 10 ???
Now ppl just hating on Gray cuz he’s white. He’d light up the NL. It’s proven that AL pitchers do much better in the NL. Some ppl are just too soft for Yankees stadium.
What does his race have to do with this? Just because a player moves from big market to small market doesn’t mean a pitcher goes from mid-to-back end rotation piece to #2 starter to ace.
Very happy Giants nor Padres made this move.
He would be a good fit for the Giants. Besides the big ball park, they have Curt Young who was his pitching coach during his best years with the A’s. The problem they really don’t have tradeable assets.
Sonny Gray in the Reds ball park the Home Runs should be flying out of the ballpark.
ground ball pitchers should be what the Reds should be looking at for that type of return.
Specially when you are talking a guy that has been garage as of late and so bad he had to be sent to the bullpen.
if the Reds make this deal for the type of prospects rumored I hope it works out.
Shed Long, comp pick, and Matt Kemp for Clint Frazier and Gray. Let’s rip
I don’t think the Yankees have a place for Kemp in the OF or DH. And that year long concussion thing is far more worrisome than Senzel’s.
Sort’ve wanted Sonny back on the A’s, but happy he’s getting another opportunity with another club.
Finally, the Reds spend some money and use its proscepts to more competitive. Vatto must be happy. He has some talent around him. Kemp can still, and Puig is an untapped high strung talent. For way too long, the Reds have no serious attempts to be contending.
Who names their child Shed
His parents, Carport and Garage Long
I swear on my life, I wrote the same thing and deleted my post when I saw yours. Lol. Nice.
I want to know who names their child Wendell. Especially with a last name like Smallwood.
Nickname? Mitch Haniger is called The Shed, because he has all the tools.
Shedric Sr.
Rusty Kuntz says hi.
Funny thread at least lol damn clowns
RD;
Nice aquarium though.
What DH’s can the Reds part with? Seems the Yankees love them DH’s.
That would be Matt Kemp, not that I think that will happen.
They have Kemp and Winker
Far as I know Stanton is their only DH and that’s because Judge plays his position.
I don’t understand why people are so concerned with the ballpark he pitches in. Gray had a HR/9 of 1.0 last year. For comparison, Scherzer’s was 0.9 and Verlander’s was 1.2. His issue isn’t homeruns, far more of his runs came from nibbling leading to walks and then giving up base hits. His problem could have been the pressure of pitching in front of the NY crowd, but it definitely wasn’t the propensity of Yankee Stadium to yield homers.
Sonny Gray gave up 14 homers — 11 at Yankee Stadium.
Thanks man!!
Yankee Stadium is somewhat the anomaly. His HR/9 there is 1.8. It’s the same at CHW, and his worst is at NYM where it’s 2.25,
But it’s significantly lower pretty much everywhere else. It’s 0.8 in 45 IP in Tor., 0.9 in 29 IP in Cle., 0.7 in 38 1/3 IP in Bal., 0.8 in 21 1/3 IP in Hou., and 0.5 in 49 1/3 IP in Tex. Plus, in his 30 2/3 IP in LAA he has yet to give up a HR.
You’re completely missing his point. Solo homers don’t hurt as much as ones with ROB and most of those came after allowing a walking guys. He seems to just get nervous in YS. I mean, it’s quite clear.
@ YS- 59 IP- 78 hits, 35 BB vs 45 KO
Away- 71 IP- 60 hits, 22 BB vs 71 KO
When we say he struggles at home people instinctively think we’re talking about YS dimensions but I really think he simply has the yips at home and isn’t comfortable for whatever reason. Look at his H/9 at YS. That has little to do with dimensions. He seems much more aggressive and comfortable on the road.
Why not
Unbelievable amount of ink for a 4th starter. A 4th starter only on a non-competitive team at that. I can see Gray improving in the NL (most would) but not in the Great American Smallpark.
If the Reds give up anything but a #20-30 ranked prospect in their very decent system, they’re nuts……
You DO realize how difficult it is to simply get a prospect to be a serviceable #4 or #5 right?
You DO realize that Gray is one year out from free agency right?
The Reds have nothing to lose with the one year rental strategy. If they are out of it at the deadline, they can trade Gray, Wood, Roark, Puig, Kemp ( they may trade him now to an AL club. They would have to pick up quite a bit of salary to do it, say $12 mil of $20 owed). Scooter is also in his walk year. They can trade all of them and gain similar (if not better) prospects than they gave up. If there in it at the deadline, they add. All the while not taking on huge multi- year commitments that hamstring small market clubs. They also retain all their best prospects (Senzel, Trammel, Greene etc…). They would love to have Kluber, but not for Senzel & Tranmel so I think they finally decided to move on. I would be surprised if they traded Shed Long, although they do have quite a few infield prospects. I don’t think Christensen has shown much to date in the minors, but catcher is such a premium these days. No way they give them both..,
Not a Cincy Fan but I agree with your assessment. The franchise has essentially been stagnant for 20 years. Absolutely positive they won’t be any worse off by trying to shake things up.
Sometimes a change of scenery is all a player needs. Gray obviously wasn’t able to handle New York (otherwise I’d want the Mets to be involved..as Gray is much better than Vargas) I like the move for Cincinnati,not so much for Gray. Great American Ballpark? is more hitter friendly. San Diego would have been better for Gray to re-establisg his value heading into free agency. All in all a good move for the Reds, depending on the assets given up. Once that information is known, there will be a better understanding of who initially won the trade.Regardless, Cincy had vastly improved from a year ago. Time will tell.
This has got Mat Latos written all over it…
? Reds are trading a top 100 prospect equivalent of Alonso for a young starter with team control? How so?
Don’t forget they gave up Volquez, who became an all-star, Boxberger, a closer, and Grandal, one of the premier hitting catchers.
There is no comparison to that trade.
Volquez didn’t “become” an All Star, he was an AS in 2008 (only) and the Reds traded him after the 2011 season. For reference, he had an ERA+ of 69 (appropriate?) in 2011. Boxberger has come down to earth after a stellar 2015 season, and is an average closer currently. Grandal, I wouldn’t call him premier, but he did cash in on a one year deal with the Brewers after one very good year with the LAD.
In return, the Reds got Latos, who was a stud for them for all 3 years that he was there. And then they flipped him for DeSclafani, who gave them an average year and an above average year before getting hurt. Latos, was awful after leaving the Reds and is out of MLB. Much like the current Reds, the Reds were hurting for starting pitching before Latos arrived.
Gray is going to go 14-4 with a 3.48 era in 200+ innings for the Reds?
I think the Yankees were “close” to dealing him? That’s supposed to mean it happens within 24 hours.
So, trading for a bunch of one year rentals to plug your holes just to have to refill them yet again next year? Even if all of these guys are healthy and have bounce back/good years, they will price themselves out of Cincinnati and go elsewhere. On top of that, even with these additions, they’re still looking up to the Cubs, Cardinals, and the Brewers still. Great shot to beat the Pirates. Yay!
So you’d rather the team trot out Romano, Reed, Mahle, Finnegan? Because that’s who will start in the places of the rentals. The rentals might not be great, but those arms I mentioned definitely won’t be. Don’t you want the team to compete? These rentals give them a chance and the lack of financial commitment mitigates any risk because it’s just 1 year. They’ll have $60 million off the books next year and can play in free agency.
Yeah, I wouldn’t be so sure that they will end up looking up at the Cubs, Cards, and Brewers. The Reds lineup will be way more than solid, the BP is very good, and their biggest weakness, the starting pitching, will go from abysmal to decent. To date, the Reds have not given up much in return for Wood, and Roark. They are both better than the Reds best pitcher, Castillo, last year. Castillo had some growing pains in his second year, but started out poorly and then came on. Disco should be healthy and have more than 115 IP. They don’t have a true ace, but they will have 2 #2 starters, a couple of #3 starters, and a #4 starter..
Add Gray I’d say you’re at 79 wins
Even if they don’t contend this year (which I”m not so sure they should be written off, but I digress) at the end of 2019 Gray, Wood, Roark, Gennett, Puig, and Kemp would all come off the books. That’s like 70M to spend in free agency, assuming that none of them get qualifying offers or sign extensions.
And you shouldn’t forget that the Reds jacked the Brewers pitching coach, who did an awful lot with nothing.
why the Reds are trading legitimate prospects for rentals is beyond me at this point.
Because prospects are just that. 2/3 never pan out. Like CCR said, some day never comes.
What legitimate prospect have they traded besides Jeter Downs, who isn’t going to have a spot anytime soon?
Huh? You must be Tanner Rainey’s mom.
Because they are rentals that are significantly better. Upgrade over current talent…
But the REAL reason that no one is hardly mentioning is that next season we don’t have to resign any of these guys unless we and they want to. (Puig will resign if Turner ward stays) This is buying us time until ALL of our top end prospects across the diamond get promoted!
Outfield? Trammel
infield? Senzel
Pitching? Greene
This is what we are preparing for! A nasty 2020 set of rookies with all these all stars.
And as mentioned by others, there is the future draft and trade compensations we wouldn’t have.
I’m not familiar with the state of the Reds’ organization. What’s the deal with acquiring all the one-year rentals? Are they stopgaps before their higher-end prospects are ready? Is is their front office trying to save their jobs? Seems rather odd a team that didn’t appear close to contention last year makes all these moves to still look up at Chicago and Milwaukee at the least (and likely St. Louis as well).
The fans are tired of losing. Their attendance was the lowest in 35 years last season. This is them putting a watchable team on the field without giving up top prospects or breaking the bank in FA.
I think I see what the Reds are doing at this point. Adding three established middle of the road starters is a far, far cry from the staff full of young pitchers pushed into roles they are not remotely prepared to fill. The offense is not a problem at all. Give the offense adequate pitching and they have s chance in every game against every opponent while the next crop of young pitchers have time to develop before being forced into the majors before they are ready. I am OK with the approach.if it doesn’t work, trade these guys at the deadline and the young players have had year of development.
I agree. Even if, let’s say the Reds contend this season and they ultimately do not flip our new additions at the trade deadline, we can still offer them a QO and recoup an early draft pick.
Wait! What? The Reds were out as of yesterday.
St Louis better be ready for 4th or 5th place…
Padres have been a franchise for 49. I wonder how many times they’ve finished 4th or 5th? At least 35?
We wont be 5th this year buddy…might not be 5th again for a very, very long time. Not something the Cards will be able to say. At the luxury tax limit without a playoff team, that must be a crappy feeling. We wouldn’t know over here, only smart money moves for the past 5 years consistently. How can anyone hate on Myers or Hosmer when Heyward making 23 mil and mike leake making 17 mil…cmon people use your head
Maybe 10 years or longer, we’ll see how far AJ takes us.
I just checked. Padres have finished in 4th, 5th, or 6th place in 36 over 49 years.
And? with the best farm system in the majors (Padres) you’ll see a different result then 5th or 4th more like 2nd and WC in 2020.
Not a Cubs fan at all. Don’t like Heyward at all.
Would happily take Heyward and his contract over Hosmer and his every single day of the week. Hosmer isn’t trash, and that contract is embarrassingly bad.
You realize we’re gonna be paying him 13 mil the last few years of his contract??? And this is embarrassing?? Heyward is almost making double that….has someone like ben Zobrist getting starts in the OF ahead of him. But you’re such a baseball genius, you would take that contract over Hosmer.
Name all the current 1st basemen who have won a silver slugger and a gold glove??
Hosmer has an opt out after 2022. If he is worth $13m a year at that point Padres will have to either up his pay or lose him.
St. Louis isn’t finishing 4th or 5th and I’d be surprised if the Reds, even with this add, got within 10 games of them. And I’m not a Cards fan, I’m a Cubs fan. The Reds are probably near .500 at this point
The Cardinals are near .500 at this point. So thank you for proving my point.
The cubs are winning 100
The brewers are winning 90
Sorry cards, you’re done.
In other words, “Cashman isnt close to a deal for Gray. Just another slow day this offseason” I just find it funny how the Yankees treat all their players as if they are Jeter quality. Its Gray, just get a deal done.
Totally agree some GM’s love to see their name in print on a daily basis
You really think Cashman is concerned with what the usual fan thinks about a trade? I guarantee you if he thought Gray was “Jeter like” he wouldn’t have told the world his intent to trade him. This idea that GMs are expected to trade players quickly or FA to sign quickly for the enjoyment of baseball rosterbation is hilarious. he’s doing his freaking job. Gray may not be worth much but if im Cash it’s my job to squeeze out every bit of trade value i think i can get.
Yesterday the Reds were out and the A’s and Padres were the favorites. What are comparable prospects on the A’s and Padres to (C)Stephenson and (IF)Long?
A’s – Neuse, and ???
Padres – Ruiz and Campusano or Allen
I’d take Allen over any of those players!
It appears that signing Adam Ottavino puts the Yankees over the 40-man roster limit by one. Unless someone is designated for assignment or another such move is made, the return for Sonny Gray will need to be a player not on the Reds’ 40-man. That rules out Keury Mella and Shed Long, both of whom have been rumored to be in the deal. Tyler Stephenson, however, is not on the 40-man. Stephenson would be a fairly steep price to pay.
I’m thinking they give them the extra spot just because it’s the Yankees. I’d really like to include an “/s” there, but MLB’s FO might get ideas.
Good take, BTM. I’m really hoping for this trade on both sides. For the Reds, I also hope that it’s a trade and extension. He’s got the makeup to anchor that staff and I’m positive he will excel under his old coach at Vanderbilt. For the Yankees, another prospect or two to flip for deadline depth, or simply organizational depth. If he doesn’t get dealt to the Reds, I’m hoping Cash decides to hang on to him.
That is true. Unless Kahle is involved as well in which case that would change things.
Why would they give them those kind of assets for a broken arm about to be released? (If nobody bites they’ll DFA him). I’d rather have seen them overbid the Yanks for Ottavino.
Why would they dfa him? He can very well be sp depth instead
The would never DFA him. If they were going to do that they would have just non tendered him earlier in the off-season.
I think he ends up with the Padres.
Long>Mateo… Stephenson=Fowler… kaprellian=bust. Pull the trigger Cash.
Lol it’s not for all those home slice
They traded Mateo, Fowler and Kaprelian for Gray. Purposed trade in the article says Long and Stephenson and a pick back. Read articles my guy
“organizations are still discussing different prospects — Shed Long and Tyler Stephenson among them — while a draft pick could also be part of the return” Nowhere in the article does is say “proposed deal of long and Stephenson and a pick”. Those are people being discussed, along with probably a dozen other prospects in the Reds organization. That could mean all of them. That could mean none of them. You may have read the article, but your comprehension sucks my guy
the expected return for Gray. Long and Stephenson (currently the #6 and #7 prospects in the Reds system per MLB.com) are the prospects most likely to be headed to New York. It’s not a done deal,…. ur comprehension apparently sucks my guy. And incase u were wondering troll, copy and paste from the article.
Posted 17 hrs after your original post. Retro-fact doesn’t make you right. At the time of your original post, the article then only mentioned them as players being discussed. You can play hind sight all you want, you were still wrong.
Or, you could’ve gone to the original tweet that this article references: “Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go” *copy and paste from the tweet* ONE of MAY go… so…you’re still wrong. Based on your reading comprehension skills tho, I’m guessing independent research is way out of the picture
Now it says Long and the draft pick as the total package.
shed long is not better than Jorge Mateo
Mateo is all speed.. Long is a lefty bat who can field his position. I’ve watched Long for a season in Dayton. Dude is way better the Mateo
This might be the most interest in a mediocre pitcher that I have ever seen. No complaints here !
Bumgarner to the Reds. Senzel to the Padres. Bunch of Padres prospects to the Giants
The Reds aren’t trading Senzel for anyone that they have one year control of.
Where are the Yankees in this deal?
lol
Probably with the Reds, out of this senseless deal.
Can they deal him today? I want to see another trade
If they’re gonna trade him at all they need to freaking do it today cuz this is getting nauseating.
Couldn’t agree more
“There are other teams still involved.” LOL, They’re not really close to a deal. Wonder how long the Yankees have to get back down to 40
I was just going to ask the same thing. Does anyone know?
i dont think Ottovino’s deal is official yet, so they are fine until they do so.
This is annoying. We keep hearing he’s about to be traded then we hear how multiple teams are still in on him. This has been going on for a while now. Can’t wait for the guy to be traded just to stop hearing about how close a trade is just for it not to be that close.
The reporting this off season is the worst I’ve ever seen
I would agree 100%. Too many people chasing too few stories.
Dipoto doing his best to third wheel this one I bet
Not sure why the angels or padres aren’t making a move for him, Put him in a pitchers park and I think he will put up good numbers again.
Yankees- Belt
Reds – Gray, Watson
Giants – Senzel
What a horrible trade for the reds lmao
Not sure it’s horrible, but maybe too steep. Maybe Giants and/or Yankees kick in a lower level prospect or maybe the reds trade Greene or Trammel instead of Senzel.
No, it’s terrible.
It’s so bad that I would expect Mike to have some type of learning disorder.
1. It’s not nice to say something like that.
2. Everyone may think it was a horrible proposal, but If the reds are dumb enough to give up the 6&7 prospect along with a draft pick for gray, maybe they would have given up their #1 prospect for gray + watson or gray and w smith.
No, no one is that dumb. Giving up Senzel, get one year of Gray and Tony Watson? No, no one is that dumb.
reds will have a new 5 man wartation
I’ll laugh when he has better peripheral numbers on a crap reds team in a band box than cc and happ do.
Cash is a genius!
Wow hearing people who know nothing about baseball saying how horrible Sonny Gray is. 4.90 earned run average but away from Yankee Stadium had just ate 2.15 earned run average. Do any of you know it all‘s realize what that means? Apparently not by experts in baseball see that as away from the Bronx sunny is a good picture which is why more than six teams have inquired about him. There are some guys who just cannot deal with the pressures of playing in New York City and sunny is one of those guys. Whoever gets him is getting a picture who will help their rotation regardless what some of these people on this board who obviously need to get drug tested think
Sonny Gray isn’t horrible but he did have a poor year and only has one more year of control left. That all leads up to not being very valuable. The Yanks will probably get a couple prospects in 15 to 30 range from the Reds if he is traded there.
In the Bronx he had a 6.98 ERA. He was horrible. On the road he had a 3.17 ERA, not 2.15. Good, but all starting pitchers have to pitch at home too.
baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grays…
He has always been bad at home. 2018 was exceptionally bad.
baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=grays…
Gray has a 4.53 ERA the past 3 years. That is not good.
Sonny gray for Joey Votto. Straight up and Reds pay off the rest of Votto salary.
Or Sonny Gray for 3 of their top prospects with Scooter Gennet. Reds pay off the rest of Gennett salary
ROFL
I assume this is in jest… If its Sonny Gray for Joey Votto, the Reds will also be taking Jacoby Ellsbury.
Come on man. Jacoby is MVP hitter. Hell fit right in with Kemp and Puig! That would be a funny outfield though
If that OF happens, we gotta give that OF a name.
PSA: Stop mentioning Joey Votto! He has a full NTC that he has already said multiple times he isn’t waiving!
Sauces are telling me Stephenson and a draft pick for Gray!
Name your sauces! Or do they need to remain “ananomayse”.
Lol I’m gonna be like some of those twitter sauces and tell you after he signs I’ll give you more info….
Meant after traded!
Thanks for “relishing” my joke 🙂
Maybe a little too much sauce?
Let me see if I’m doing this right. Sonny for a half-eaten hog dog and a 3 week old small box of popcorn. I’ll even throw in a bottle of store-brand water.
Deal I’ll take it!
Us the reds #6 and 7 prospects and you got a deal.
I don’t get it. Does Gray actually make the Reds better? I’d rather roll the dice with Mahle, who at the age of 23 had an era of 3.38 through the month of June. Granted the rails fell off, but I’d see if he can right the ship in 19.
Ok, i totally botched my metaphor, but you still get the point.
Sonny Gray trade is getting close…. How long have they been saying this?
Can feel it in my bones. A blockbuster deal is in the works. Yanks have surplus in the pen and in young arms. They can go out and cherry pick a player like Kluber or Bumgarner and give up multiple bodies including Gray. SF needs bodies, Cleveland needs outfielders. Watch and see !
I could see a blockbuster happening, but it’s likely to be a separate deal, not involving Grey.
Andujar,Frazier for arenado and Jon gray
I think losing Gray is a mistake and as a long loving yankee fan if they don’t upgrade that pitching staff they will once again go out early! They are trying to compensate with the best relief pitching in the game to win games, get a starter
They did upgrade the rotation with Paxton and a full season of Happ.
Sevy, Tanaka, Paxton, Happ, CC
Are way better than the start of last year with
Sevy, Tanaka, Gray, CC, Montgomery
Okay, so Heyman’s latest actually says “one of” Long or Stephenson. It doesn’t imply both.
And as a Reds fan, I would be fine with one, but not both.
But two prospects total, and also a draft pick. As a Yankee fan, I am happy with that return for what is essentially dead weight.
It’s still too much for Gray from the Reds, but if the prospect isn’t Top 20 I can deal. Gray is a huge bounceback candidate. Personally I think the Yankees overplayed their hand by saying he was up for grabs and then filling their rotation and bullpen, so they’re lucky to get anything at all.
They appear to be getting more than you think he’s worth, but you think they overplayed their hand…?
Sounds like they played it perfectly.
Yes, it’s a criticism of the Reds leadership to give up too much for him.
Yeah, I think they’re slightly misreading Heyman’s tweet. I agree that it’s Long OR Stephenson, plus a pick and plus a lesser prospect. That seems fair enough for the Reds but also a nice haul for the Yankees for a guy they are trying to dump.
Agreed. Still think it’s an overpay by the Reds, but if it’s not TWO top 10’s I can deal.
I certainly am not going to complain. Its more than what I thought a suitor might pay
Man, this is like watching paint dry in the rain.
… while inhaling the fumes.
I think the Reds have done a good job up to this point. What they don’t need now is another mid-rotation, 1-year rental at the cost of prospects/draft picks. Signing a mid-rotation FA for 1 year would be fine: giving up future pieces is not.
Wholeheartedly agree. Can’t believe they’d give up multiple top 10 prospects. Grey seems no better than Roark, and they gave up the #25 prospect for him.
Gray’s ceiling is much higher than Roark’s, IMO.
So much higher that you’d trade two top 10s? No. Not even that much higher that you should trade a top 20.
Clearly you missed my comment where I said I don’t think that is the plan, or even what Heyman is saying
Totally agree. They shouldn’t give up more than a pair of reclamation efforts like Stephenson, Finnegan or Whistler. The Reds are stupid if they give up a legit prospect for a 1-year rental who couldn’t even make a post season roster last year.
This trade is drawing out well… At first Yankees fans felt they were getting Scooter Gennet… Then Taylor Trammell… Then they thought they were getting both Stephenson and Long… Now just Long and a draft pick? LOL That’s okay… Yankee fans will say they stole a future Hall of Famer away from them. Just like Voit.
Long and a draft pick for a guy that was completely useless to them? Yeah, thats a decent move, lol
Useless to them v useful to another team are two very different things. I don’t view Gray as more of a fringe #4 but likely #5, but that still has some value to teams. That said, getting a guy in a team’s top 10 is pretty good.
Now the package is said to be less than originally reported if gray doesn’t sign an extension. This keeps getting better and better!
That really is a steal for the Yankees if that is what is really going to them
From the same people that brought you “3 Months of Machado”…
MLBTR Studios presents… THE SONNY GRAY TRILOGIES
Why are you here if it bothers you? See yo-self out
He also complains about expiration dates on milk.
Why are you here if my comment bothers you? Or are you the only sanctioned arbiter of negative opinions?
Because it became outdated 1-18-2019
I am a Braves fan, but if the Reds are giving their 6th and 7th best prospect plus a draft pick, I’m wondering what Reds brass is trying to do, at the end of the day they will still be last or next to last in their division. The Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals are all better. Why are they trading their future for a one year rental. If you are going to rebuild, you have to have patience
I think the tweet actually only implies they’ll give up one, but it’s still an overpay.
I also don’t think the Reds should be underestimated.
Yeah doesn’t seem like the right ‘next move’. But it is only one of those two, not both. I’ve thought Long was a borderline MPB player for a year now. That wouldn’t kill me, but it doesn’t really move the needle much unless Gray surprises us.
MLB
Keuchel would have been a better fit.
Keuchel has to want to play in Cincy. Gray only has say in how long he plays in Cincy.
Yeah, 6th & 7th seems high for 1 year of Gray in a hitters park. At that point, I’d rather Atlanta not move that high of prospects for him, and use them for someone else.
True THAT !!!!
Been praying the Reds would stay away. Memories of the Chapman trade all over again. Unless Gray wins 15+ games with a well above average FIP and ERA+ I would see this as completely lopsided in the Yankees favor. Trading 2 of any organizations Top 10 prospects plus another draft pick is a huge over pay for a guy that you know they don’t want.
Stop…. posting…. the same crap!!!! Tomorrow’s headline? “Gray to the reds a possibility…”
Aliens invading Earth tomorrow a possibility.
Not sure of the Reds overall strategy is in this offseason. All of their moves are acquiring short term pieces all will be gone after this season, especially if they have bounce back years as the Reds hope.
The Dodgers deal was actually pretty good. It’s all wasted money (Bailey before, Kemp now etc) but now they have 3 guys who can help win games this year and they haven’t handcuffed themselves with salary down the road. I love that deal.
This one would make no sense to me. Giving up significant prospects for a one year rental.
If it’s Long, Stephenson and a draft pick for Sonny Gray that is a huge overpay. Unless there’s more coming back as in a couple of relievers then I’d much rather sign Gio Gonzalez or another free agent starter or go big and sign Dallas Keuchel
Waaaaay to MUCH to give up for 1 year of another teams castoff !!!
He will help but not at that cost .
There are better options than Gray.
I don’t know how the Yankees do it .
Sonny Gray makes me miss Ed Whitson.
this would be a massive over pay for the reds. 2 top 10 guys for 1 year of a bum who can’t pitch anymore. who wants a guy in the playoffs who cant thow big games! if they make this trade we should flood their phones calling for Williams to be fired. I hope is rumor nonsense
Came to say the same. Cincinnati also has a hitter friendly park. That’s too much to give up for Gray.
The fault here is Jeff Todd’s. He misquoted what Heyman said in his tweet.
At least report the tweet correctly Mr Todd. He clearly states one of Long or Stephenson, not both.
“Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go.“
Yes, seems to be one of them plus another unknown prospect.
Only Cashman can get a top 10 prospect, for a fading back end starter with only 1 year control remaining.
2 top 10 prospects lol
As a diehard Reds fan, I’d rather keep Stephenson and the comp pick but Shed Long and another low level prospect for Gray is fine with me. I want no part in trading Senzel for Kluber so hopefully this will signal the end of that. If Gray bounces back, Reds can contend, I fully believe that. Their bullpen is underrated and their lineup is stacked. I love what we’ve done thus far. Keuchel would be nice but for the money he wants, we wouldn’t have much room to wiggle going forward.
Couldn’t agree more Rows, on almost every point. Long and a lower prospect for Gray (nothing more) and hang on to Senzel. Kluber has feasted on the weak teams in his division; he could very well prove to be a disappointment with the Reds. I like Keuchel, but only if his contract demands come down, which I believe will happen. If the demands for Gray and Keuchel don’t become reasonable, just say no and leave the # 5 spot in the rotation open for the kids.
And those saying they won’t compete in 19 are in for a rude awakening. Their rotation has gone from abysmal to decent. The BP and the lineup is quality.
Not a Reds fan but if they do enough to leapfrog even one of the teams in their division I’ll be blown away. So far I’m not seeing anything I can consider special or the kind of move that puts someone over the top. If starting pitching is the Achilles heal they acquired two fifth/sixth starters. The Nats literally signed Corbin(legit difference maker for a contender) then off loaded some excess in Roark. The Cardinals were much better and they got Goldschmidt and Andrew Miller to try to leapfrog the Cubs and/or Brewers. Those are guys that can get a team there not Wood or Roark. I like Puigs upside but don’t think he’d make a great starter. I personally see upside and certainly potential in Gray. His numbers outside Yankees stadium as many mentioned and his past success make him a prime rebound candidate and at his best he was an ace. But to get him you’re dipping into your top ten prospects, he won’t be enough even if he’s his best, and in 2020 everyone is gone and they are minus some prospects to go from bad to mediocre.
Perhaps the Reds are thinking, of he’s productive in the first half, then either he helps them make a run or he’s trade deadline bait for contenders?
I don’t think he’s “washed up”; then again, I’m not getting paid to balance his value to my franchise versus that of the potential impact of minor league players.
To clarify:
Cashman is (potentially) turning Gray into prospects that (potentially) help the franchise later … maybe that’s the same idea in Cincinnati?
Sure, we’ve seen players come to The Bronx and wilt (something I still believe kept them from going all in to try and get Grienke years ago) only to find or regain themselves after they’re in another team.
Typically, we only hear/read about one side of “the pinstripe mystique” and rarely hear/read about the kind of pressure that’s gotta be inherent to always win.
I’ll never forget when the media literally swarmed Jeter’s locker after they lost the first game of the season. He just smiled and said something like “I guess we won’t be undefeated this season huh?”
That’s a decent hall for Gray
They need to go hard for Keuchel or else I don’t think this makes much sense.
Does any one have a quick write up on Long and Stephensen? These guys any good?
Long is a 2nd baseman with good upside. Stephenson is a Catcher with some pop
MLBpipeline
I like what the Reds are doing. Let’s be honest, if they get Gray then there’s no reason to think they can’t be relevant in the chase for the second Wild Card deep into the season. That’s a vast improvement anyway you look at it. Not a Reds fan, don’t know the team, but can’t see a downside. Better than meaningless irrelevance for 162 games.
Downside is that they would dish two top 10 prospects for a 1 year pitcher who might regain some value. The Reds are trying to come out of a rebuild but they aren’t there yet. This is a move that a playoff team would make. There’s better options available on the open market.
what a waste of internet space
Sounds like a lot
Getting at least one of those prospects would be a steal for the Yanks.
I wonder if the Braves overpay on Gray because a second bigger name is attached. Say Stanton or Andujar to transition to left field. I still want to know what the Marlins value Brian Anderson at, if they would be open to packaging him and jtr together?
Marlins won’t move Anderson. They’re trying to move realmuto and straily. They want to keep the young ones with years of service left.
Terrible trade , Not sure why the dodgers , angels or padres are not in on him. Put him in a pitchers park and he will be back in his 2015 form imo.
Why would the Reds trade prospects for a guy that can only help them in a year where they hope they might challenge for the WC at best? Go sign Miley for 2 years. Go get Gio Gonzalez. Those guys will cost similar annual value, sign for multiple years and cost no prospects.
That projected prospects and draft pick for gray is so dumb. Way to much! Yankees don’t need to be handed this. Gray is worth far less
Trade him to the dodgers , angels or padres to restock his value for the offseason. He needs to be in a pitchers park imo.
Maybe if you’re one of those teams you do that. And I truly think he has the potential to be ace like. But what he has shown recently and his health history, I wouldn’t give up two strong prospects for him at all. Not to mention a draft pick. I’ll trade 1 decently strong prospect (but not top 100 or top 10 at their position), another low lvl project that is packed with potential but hasn’t put anything together-basically someone no one has heard of, then some cash and/or a player to be named later. But prospects that are #6-7 in a strong system is flat silly for him especially if u add draft picks
*too
Uhh a draft pick? Competitive balance ?
There is no way the Reds are going to give up Long, Stephenson and a draft pick for one year of Gray. The draft pick is like the 36 pick in the draft. My guess is Stephenson and a higher 15-30 pick is what happens when it’s all said and done. Jeff Todd needs to read the tweet that he referenced one of Long or Stephenson is how I read it not both.
Reds should send the group they received for Aroldis Chapman back to the Yankees for Gray…. Caleb Cotham, Rookie Davis, Eric Jagielo and Tony Renda. .
Idk….I don’t want to give up the assistant pitching coach
AZ;
Who?
“Expect Gray to be moved sometime this weekend…”
“This weekend” may need to be re-interpreted as “before spring training starts.”
This Lost Weekend.
Reds sure like #5 starters.
I’d say one of those prospects and that’s it, Cashman take it or leave it, this guy has one yr. deal. He’s not Nolan Ryan or Jim Palmer.
That cannot be the return for 1 year of Gray. Even if it was ROBERT Stephenson and not Tyler our #1 catching prospect, it would still be a major overpay. The FO has had a good offseason thus far. Don’t ruin it with such a dumb deal. As AZ Reds Fan pointe out we already were hosed by them in the Chapman deal. No need for a part 2. Shed Long alone would be more than fair. If they trade Long, then they will extend Scooter or install Senzel as the 2B for the next several years.
Realistically what would it take to get Kluber? Would Long, Stephenson, and maybe Gennett enough? If not would throwing Schebler(sp) make it. Could fill 2nd with Senzel, and Trammell the outfield. Enough? Too much, or what. 3 years of Kluber could steady the ship and help the transition if the full rebuild.
Kluber would cost way more then that he is controlled at a good price for three more years. He would cost more then the Reds would be willing to pay think Senzel plus.
Getting Kluber would cost something like Senzel, India, and Scott Schebler plus a B level prospect or two. Cleveland is only interested in trading one of their two big starters if they get a massive overpay. I’m a diehard Reds fan, and I honestly don’t think the package I mentioned above would get it done.
I’d love to see Kluber in Cincinnati, but not at the price that it will likely take to get him.
Something like winker, Iglesias, mahle and a lotto ticket is fair that fills the Indians needs and the reds would probably do, but the indians wouldnt. They no longer have any real desire to trade Kluber.
This deal has been close for three days now
Two top 10 prospects PLUS a draft pick seems kinda high for an often injured pitcher that had a poor season last season with only one year of control remaining.
If that’s really the Reds’ offer then it’s a done deal. Nobody is outbidding that offer. Long or Stephenson alone should have been enough.
Not sure why I got down voted on a topic where so many place value that’s speculative (“prospect”) against proven experience then justify it on a decline or below usual performance.
How many players have bounced back or even excelled versus “blue chip prospects” who’ve tanked, if they even make it to The Show at all?
One player who comes to mind who was wearing the “washed up” tag brought a title to Houston
… but, no, please continue with the keen & insightful rhetoric based on wtfever.
I’ll get my popcorn
Can someone please enlighten me as to what the Yankees initially traded for gray and their rankings at the time of the trade?
Only thing that’ll save the Reds is an accounting innovation.
July 31, 2017: Traded by the Oakland Athletics with international bonus slot money to the New York Yankees for James Kaprielian (minors), Jorge Mateo (minors) and Dustin Fowler.
I don’t know their rankings.
Kaprielian Was coming off TJ. Fowler was their #1 but he got injured in his debut. Ruptured patella.
Seriously? #1 prospect? Wow that Yankees front office truly is brilliant
When did he hit #1? Highest I saw him was #6, and besides, no matter where he ranked he blew his knee out BAD the season prior. I believe at the time they said nobody with similar injury ever came back the way they were.
Sp they traded 2 guys coming off of major surgery and a nobody for Gray initially.
According to mlb.com they were the 4th, 8th and 12th ranked prospects. Both injured players were supposed to return in ’18. Gray lasted how long in the rotation?
Fowler was never their #1 prospect. Ever. The 3 players were all top 100 prospects at some point I believe. All had warts tho. Kaprelian TJ surgery, Fowler a significantly blown out knee, and Mateo had peaked as a prospect and was losing value. They traded talented guys, but all had a wart of some kind. It was a good trade for both teams. Oakland went for upside, the Yankees traded riskier prospects.
mlb.com/yankees/news/yankees-2017-preseason-top-30…
According to MLB’s 2017 preseason rankings the 3 prospects ranked
5 Mateo
6 Kaprelian
9 Fowler
That’s a nice haul for Oakland, but these were preseason rankings. Not July. Mateo lost shine and the others were injured. Good trade for both imo. The issue is Gray can’t pitch in Yankee Stadium. His road numbers are excellent tho. That’s what teams are focused on as they should be.
Gray has been a bust for the Yankees. They really didn’t give up much in the trade for him…..a pitcher that just had TJ surgery, an outfielder with a blown out knee and Mateo. Gray just couldn’t handle pitching in NY.
And based on the results to this point neither side can claim the other got robbed. When we see how the 3 prospects pan out for Oakland we will know how well they did, although it does not look good so far. When we see how well the prospects the Yankees end up with for Gray pan out we will know their end.
Yes, Gray looks like a bust, but depending on what the Yankees get for him will ultimately determine if Cashman lost that trade, not how long Gray lasted in the rotation etc etc.
MLBTR didn’t quite get the tweet right. Heyman tweets, “Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend.”
So Long OR Stephenson + another prospect + draft pick, not Long + Stephenson + draft pick
Yet still far too much. Classic price inflation
The last thing the Reds need to do is give up prospects for another average pitcher on a one year deal….
The #7 prospect in a loaded farm system plus a draft pick for one year of Sonny Gray?
I say let them have him.
I really was hoping for Stephenson. Long seems like Rob Refsnyder part 2.
Another future Hall of Famer?
lol
Reds farm system isn’t exactly loaded. It is average. They have 2 big prospects in Senzel (60) and Trammell (55). Hunter Greene (50/55) has a lot of potential but he hasn’t showed anything in pro ball yet, and India, Long, Stephenson are 45/50 grade guys that make up most top 5 lists.
Lol, they are ranked 5th so not exactly average
Senzel, Trammell, and Greene are all 60 players. You know, rated higher than anyone in the NYY system. Then the Reds have a bunch of guys rated 50 +. Dunno where you’re getting your info Chicks. Like KS said, the Reds have a top 5 system.
Maybe some of those minor leaguers might even make the majors…..maybe not.
#6 & #7 ranked prospects + a pick seems way too steep. Gray may bounce back, Oakland seems like a better place for him to re-establish himself, kinda think The Great American Small Park will be just as bad for him as his NY experience was, IMO
#6 OR #7
Not both.
Ahh, my bad. Thanks
MLBTR misquoted Heyman’s tweet. That has never been on the table. It was (Stephenson OR Long) + the draft pick + a second prospect.
Actual quote:
“Yankees and #Reds are getting closer on a Sonny Gray trade. Teams are talking about two prospects and a draft pick going for Sonny. One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. #SFGiants, Braves, Brewers are on periphery. A deal should happen this weekend.”
“One of 2B prospect Shed Long and C prospect Tyler Stephenson may go. “
Thanks for the correction as I didn’t follow it earlier.
What I don’t understand is giving up prospects and a draft pick for one year of service from a guy coming off a mediocre season. Gio Gonzalez or Ervin Santana are in the same situation but are free agents that would probably sign for not much more than the same salary as Gray will earn this year, but doesn’t cost anything from the farm system or future draft picks.
Gray > Gio or Santana.
I’ve never seen so many comments on a story about nothing happening. This offseason has been very anti-climatic,
The “reporting” of the details of alleged offers this offseason has been abysmal.
Yea trade Long seems fair enough, throw a project minor league pitching prospects and that’s more than enough. But long is pretty much MLB ready. And he’s not exactly gonna break that starting lineup soon at all. If I’m the yanks, I’d grab 2 lower tier pitching prospects. Scott Moss and James marinan make more sense. Guys who have more time to develop, show promise, and can be there in the future when the current lineup starts to go away. Otherwise, Long seems like an immediate trading chip for them.
should not do more than one guy and none of the top 10 list. he is terrible and hurt
It’s hard for me to understand why the reds would trade away near mlb ready talent considering how bad they are and where this guy ranks in their system. And I agree gray isn’t worth what’s being tossed around but he’s worth more than 1 player for sure
Our lineup is as strong as any team in the NL when healthy, And not only is our IF filled up now, but we have Senzel and India waiting.. We shouldn’t give them a draft pick tho. That’s ridiculous.
Yeah, the Reds aren’t as far away as some think. Good lineup, they just need some pitching. I actually like their moves.
Disagree… I think most people know where Cincinnati is located.
At least the Yankees have gotten something out of Gray, I didn’t like the Gray trade as an A’s fan, thought it was what the Yankees wanted to give us and not what we should have gotten.
Kaprilian hasn’t pitched in 2 years and was injured at trade, his two comebacks were met with setbacks. Mateo has completely cratered and even his only tool saw him get thrown out on base at an alarming rate,
Dustin Fowler couldn’t be any worse if he tried, he was replaced by Nick Martini (who) and Ramon “highlight reel” Laureano. His hitting put up a 3% walk rate and he has publicly stated he will not change, his 65 WRC+ tied into a -0.6 WAR. His base running saw him nabbed 4 times in 10 attempts and the fielding put up a brutal -8DRC and -15UZR/150. He looks stuck at AAA this year with Laureano, Piscotty, Canha, Pinder and Martini ahead of him and Barreto and Profar can also play outfield. It is a big year for Fowler, one that could see him bounce back or end up a career AAAA baller.
I wouldn’t give up on these guys yet man. All three were seen as risks. Kap seems healthy now, but has definitely taken longer than expected to get going. Mateo’s collapse is the real surprise, but he’s still talented enough to recover. Fowler was still a little rusty from his knee injury in 2017, but you do have a legitimate point about his ineptitude at the big league level in ‘18. There could be some value that these three bring to the A’s though.
Bold prediction: The Yankees don’t end up trading Gray
They’ve got to do something. They’re at 41 on the 40 man roster
Long is on the Reds 40-man roster so if this trade does happen as proposed the Yanks are still at 41 on the 40-man roster.
Seems like glaciers make more progress than this trade proposal.
Where are those Yankee fans who thought Sonny Gray was going to draw top prospects? I remember seeing some suggest Paddack from the Padres. Reality hits like a ton of bricks sometimes.
Reality might hit you hard too. Shed Long is the 6th best 2B prospect.
Where? In Yankee land
I misread a January 2018 article assuming it was this years. That is my fault. He couldnt have dropped down too far below the top 10 2B prospects, though. He is still 7th CIN prospect.
You realize the 6th best 2nd baseman title is probably on par with the 20th best SS prospect. Hardly anyone comes up as a 2nd baseman anymore.
He would probably have a higher ranking if he didnt switch from catcher to 2B so late in his development. The bat is there, glove is a work in progress.
Dont forget…. Scooter was getting traded for gray… NY Donkee Fans are stupid as F#%!
Not a Yankee fan but the 36th pick in the draft and Long is too much imo so I think Cashman did well on this one.
cant be any dumber than you
He’s just a dopey crybaby Yankee hater
Oh… so they traded for Scooter?
If they really get Long and the 36th pick in the draft Cashman did well. That’s too imo.
Its a very good return if its true. 36th pick, Long, and another lesser prospect for 1 year of Sonny Gray. Very good deal for the Yankees. This just raised the asking price for SP even more
Fantastic trade on Cashman’s part. I am more than happy with this.
It’s a salary dump. This guy the Yankees got will never see Yankee stadium
Impressive that you already know who they will take with the 36th pick. Can you share with us or are you not allowed by your source?
Terrible comment. Long isn’t the next Vlad Guerrero Jr. by any means but his offensive profile certainly makes for an intriguing prospect. His defense is pretty questionable, but he is nearly big league ready and could be moved around the field to debut this season (he might seem blocked right now, holes always open up for versatile players). Also, the 36th overall pick gives the Yankees lots of flexibility in their allocation of their draft bonus pool. If they wanted to merely dump Gray’s salary, why wouldn’t they have just handed him over to one of the other 7 teams that were interested in him in November? Please think and research before you comment next time.
Time for yankees fans to start touting long as the next Robinson cano. At his absolute ceiling hes scooter who no one wants anyways
Someone a little butt hurt, maybe? If Sonny gets back to form then Cincinnati probably paid too little. Anyway, it’s too early to say yet. For now, I’m just glad he’s out of the Bronx
Don’t you children ever get tired if the same boring and unoriginal whining about what Yankees fans will or won’t say about their own? Every fanbase loves their prospects, at least the Yankees have had a hell of a lot of recent success with theirs.
I just find it humorous how many comments I read about cashmans brilliance is all. Give him the Marlins and see what magic he can work!
probably a decent amount of magic. Sure, he has the luxury of working for an organization that consistently provides him with one of the largest spending budgets in the league, which can be used to cover up some mistakes. However, Cashman is a Hall of Fame General Manager. He’s in one of the most pressured positions in the MLB (just look at all the Yankee fans criticizing him for being financially cautious and avoiding the impending disastrous monstrosity of a contract that Machado is going to be given), yet has been able to constantly keep the fans approval. Just look at Cashman’s 2016 trade deadline results… he turned an old an declining outfielder (Carlos Beltran), two dominant relievers (Miller and Chapman), and Ivan Nova into prospects that turned into James Paxton, Zach Britton, Gleyber Torres, Clint Frazier, and Stephen Tarpley. Most teams have more talent than those four guys on their roster, but Cashman absolutely maxed out his return. This Yankees team is also built from the farm system up… Judge, Severino, Sánchez, Andújar, Betances, Holder, Bird, and Gardner all came up through the system. He made a savvy deal to get Aaron Hicks a few years back for John Ryan Murphy (now a 3rd string catcher), got Chad Green and Domingo German as throw-in pieces in deals for spare pieces, and has now filled in the holes in the roster with economical signings like Happ, Lemahieu, Sabathia, Chapman (may backfire in the long-run), Ottavino, and Britton, instead of chasing the big $ FA like he used to. Cashman has reinvented himself multiple times throughout his long tenure with the Yankees and is absolutely a Hall of Fame GM.
The reds flipped waiver wire pickups dan straily for Luis Castillo and alfredo Simon for eugenio Suarez. Turned .220 hitting todd Frazier into ‘non prospect’ Jose peraza. Every team makes good moves in a vacuum. I’m not saying hes a bad gm but yankee fans talk like hes the messiah. Just find it funny.
He’s one of the best GMs of all time… these moves have been made at a pretty high success rate for a while now. You just isolated the best three moves that the Reds have made since 2014… I was just talking about the rebuild alone, not even the other hundred great acquisitions he’s made as GM.
It is much easier for a GM of a large market team to put together a team as they have much more money to spend.. Would Cashman do as well with a small market team? I don’t think so .
This is an amusing comment that consists of zero evidence. Just because he hasn’t been the GM for a small market team doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be successful as one. With his ability to get the most of our players in every trade and strong amateur, minor league, and international scouting track record there’s no reason to believe he would be a good GM for the Marlins.
Yankee fans act like Cashman is perfect. Sonny Gray was a mistake. The way that he has handled the Gray trade this season has been a mistake. I would say he is a good GM. A hall of fame GM no way.
Thanks Mom!
Sonny Gray was a mistake. Once again the resounding lack of evidence presented in your case that he isn’t a Hall of Fame GM makes for a poor argument. I’m not saying he’s perfect by any means; Cash has swung and missed on many guys over the years like Javier Vazquez, AJ Burnett, and Sonny Gray. But overall, he’s thrived in many different eras and been extremely successful. Not too many HOF GMs our there but Cashman, Epstein, and Dombroski all stand out as obvious candidates.
I knew someone would bring up Epstein as he has won rings with multiple teams. What did he do for the Cubs though? He took over when they had a stacked farm system. He hired a great manager that everyone knew was great, and he spent hundreds of millions on pitching. Seriously who couldn’t have done that if we’re being honest?
Dombrowski a candidate? Now I know you are of questionable knowledge. The Detroit Tigers, who never won a World Series was run into the ground by Dombrowski. He traded all of their prospects. They currently are bad and trying to fix the mess that he made. Boston will have major problems next year when multiple starts are free agents. They are also so far over the salary cap. Again, all three people you listed are large market teams. They have the advantage of a much larger budget. You commented that just because he hasn’t been a GM of a small market team doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be successful. But, there is no proof that he would be successful as well. A money mistake or a bad trade like Sonny Gray is much more devastating to a small market team than to the Yankees., Cashman has done a good job, but your comment on the Hall of Fame is still a joke. Take off your pin stripped glasses. If he is so good, as you say, Why hasn’t the Yankees won an AL pennant or world series since 2009 with their large budget? I rest my case.
Damn you just spit fire
Long is a really mediocre return for a guy who is taking up a roster spot in Gray. Long is a very meh prospect that will also need to be on NYY’s 40-man, so all it saves them is a 25-man spot. better to get a younger player who doesnt need to be on the 40 and might actually be half-decent at some point.
Are you the darkside that used to be on mlb.com?
Baseball can trade draft picks now?
Competitive balance picks have always been able to be traded. That is the pick NYY would be getting
Only competitive balance picks.
Three updates today. Same story. Heyman stinks.
Its details of a trade thats being finalized as we speak, I dont understand the problem.
Tss tssh What’s your name Begamin Heyman or sumthin?
I dont even like Heyman? I think just a couple days ago he said the Reds and Pads were out
Did we just trade for Rob Refsnyder?
I love what the Reds are doing, I’m happy for Votto. They’re making it clear to their fanbase that they’re sick of being the doormats in the central.
Finalizing the deal! This time next Wednesday itll be a done deal
They’ll announce it during the Super Bowl halftime show
Which Super Bowl?
I’m not saying this trade is gonna make the Reds a contender but I honestly don’t think any team in the central is gonna win over 85 games. It is gonna take a toll on every team
So basically for the Yankees a trade piece for the future.
Weirder things have happened in baseball then a prospect that essentially seems blocked by the big league club he represents, suddenly finding himself on that very same big league club for a variety of different reasons. Worst case, helps build the system back up a bit with so many graduations and trades over the past couple yrs. That draft pick is a nice bonus as well. Essentially got a yr and a half of Gray for one prospect,(sent 3 to oak), a nd none of those prospects have done anything anyhow. Now we get Long and a draft pick that hopefully do better then Mateo, Kaprielian, or Fowler do for Oak, plus we had Gray for the yr and a half. And honestly I’d prob take Long over any of the guys we traded to Oak at this point anyhow.
Might as well keep Gray. This is an absolute nothing trade that doesn’t help the Yankees enough. Yankees will need starting pitching depth and Gray represents the best sixth starter option.
They can’t keep Gray, not every player is built to play in the Big Apple. Gray has proven he can’t handle it there. It is what it is.
What are u talking about? Yanks are loaded with pitching in the system and little in way of position player depth. Also Long is a lefty hitter which is nice, with so many young righties on the ML team, and he’s got some speed, which wi th Ells and Gardy at or near the end of there Yankee tenures, is would be welcomed. Shed has also steadily climbed the ranks with very little stumbling and his decent pop should play up a bit in Yankee Stadium. Even if he dosent make it with us, or is blocked , he helps replenish a system that has traded a lot of prospects as well as graduated a bunch. Add in a early rd draft pick , all for a guy whos not really needed in 2019 anyways, and it is a win deal for yanks. None of the prospects traded for Gray have done anything for Oak either, and now we essentially get a prospect back and a draft pick. So on top of everything else, lightens the load of prospect loss for Gray to begin with on top of gives us a much needed position player prospect and a draft pick. I’m more then fine with this deal
Gray is a nothing. His ERA was 6.98 in Yankee Stadium.
I’d be surprised if it’s Long AND a competitive balance pick. It’s ONE year of Gray who hasn’t exactly set the world on fire lately. The only reason they’re giving up Long is that they still, after shedding Jeter Downs, have an excess of Second Basemen. Long and a lottery ticket is reasonable.
Long definitely isn’t a lottery ticket. He’s nearly big league ready and his offense is likely to be at least slightly above average for an MLB 2B. I would say he’s more of a high floor, low ceiling prospect than a “lottery ticket”, which is used for prospects that are immensely risky due to their low floor, high ceiling combinations. Long is a sure bet to make the big leagues.
Just realized I mis-read your comment above. My bad! I thought said Long was the lottery ticket. Your comment made sense.
Long isn’t the lottery ticket. The draft pick is the lottery ticket. Long struggled in AA at 23. He is not exactly a high floor prospect.
Long had a wRC+ of 120 last season… that’s well-above average and would indicate he didn’t struggle. Are there some swing-and-miss concerns? Sure, but he walks at a solid clip, has 15 HR power, and 20 SB-caliber speed. All that may not materialize at the MLB-level, but he was an offensive weapon last year.
Long hasent struggled at any level. Back to back yrs with double digit homers and steals and is a career 353obp in the minors. Speed, pop, lefty hitter, and gets on base. Pretty much exactly what yanks need, as they are loaded with righty power hitters with little speed. And worst case, we use em for a trade down the line, similar to Solak. People like cincys system and this guy was entrenched in there top10 prospects, which should tell u he’s got potential, and also brings some things to the table yanks don’t have in abundance rite now, like speed, lefty bat with pop, gets on base…etc
Ok Cincy, I see you. Some nice moves, another team to make the NL Central that much tougher.
Please don’t trade Long, and a draft pick! Long alone is more than enough. I thought he’d be our 2020 starting 2B. Maybe the Reds will sign Gennett for an extension.
The Reds new pitching coach was Gray’s pitching coach at Vandy.
Obviously he feels that he can work with him and get him back to his best baseball.
And after what he did with the likes of Wade Miley and Gio Ginazalez and that bunch last year. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt so far.
I’ve seen people say that giving up Long and a pick is too much for a 1 year rental. Perhaps. But as others have atated…
1. If the Reds are able to contend, then it’s worth it and they can make qualifying offers on whoever they feel good about moving forward.
2.If not, they flip them at the deadline and get comparable prospects back.
So, they’ve used a strength(#7 ranked farm system….and not their top prospects) to add to a weakness(the rotation). That’s how you’re supposed to do it.
They have a solid pen and a really good lineup. Defense isnt bad even with the loss of Hamilton. And they still have plenty of money, based on what the GM and owner have said, to go out and either…
Add Keuchel, trade for Kluber(not preferred because that does cost those top prospects) and/or sign or trade for a better centerfielder. And if they sign a centerfielder, they still have a plethora of outfielders to work trades with if someone gets injured or they identify a weakness or the opportunity to better the club in whatever way comes up.
As a long time Reds fan who has lived through this rebuild, I’m all in….just like them. I say, good work.
Agreed, well said. Have to love the flexibility in these deals and the fact that they can recoup draft picks with qualifying offers or dump them at the deadline. If I were the front office, I would be looking to move Scooter to free up a spot for Senzel and address center field and add a quality bullpen arm. See where you are at the deadline and if you are in it, make a move for an ace. If not, dump your assets and have a ton of payroll space going into next offseason.
Can we get Kaprielian and Matteo back in that trade lol…. Cashhhhhhhh strikes again with his pitching moves
Good posts from Samuel and joeshome11!
I agree Rothschild does have a negative effect on the pitching staff. since he got to NY. Starting with AJ Burnett who’s fast ball disappear from Rothschild coaching. Since he got away from Larry, AJ’s numbers are much better for the PIrates. Ivan Nova is another example as will be Michael Pineda, You can also look at Nathan Eovaldi who just resigned with Boston, and you can bet the house the Yankees didn’t give him an offer as Eovaldi would have told them put it where it doesn’t shine. Plus, you can look at what effects on the bullpen last year. What happen to Kahnle? He was lights out and then after one year he was batting practice material. I’m in favor of going a different direction like someone who is like Stottlemyre .
Eovaldi still sucks, and if anyone remembers him in NY he has always been streaky. Guy would go 8-10 starts and look like an ace, and then the next 8-10 and look like a #5 starter.
What he was with TB and the Red Sox during the regular season was the same guy, just look at his numbers.
WOW, guy had a great postseason. Take as a streaky guy about to enter free agency looking to set his value. Bravo, he’ll likely have a 4.50 ERA and be a .500 pitcher with the Red Sox.
This is everything that’s wrong with mlb. Big market takes a chance, fails, and gets bailed out by top 20 prospects from a bottom tier team. Disgusting, tbh.
No one forced the Reds to make this trade. Gray doesnt even command that much money. Any team couldve done what the Yankees did with Gray. Keep crying though
The prospects the Yankees gave up for Gray have all faltered in OAK but at the time, they gave up a much better package than the one they are receiving
Well, obviously. They had more control of Gray time wise, and people actually thought he was good. Well actually he was good, but has surely regressed the last couple of years.
Shed is the Reds 7th best prospect.
Not on the MLB to 100
Lol
Glad preller was like nope
The most puzzling offseason I can remember from any team. I have to believe they are just trying to give the fans a break for a year and win a few games but not seriously threaten anyone in the central or win a wild card spot. I’m surprised professional sports writers talk about the Reds as if they’ve built themselves a real starting rotation. They better fire some more shells because it isn’t nearly enough. The Yankees thought enough of Gray to leave him off the postseason roster. All this talk about numbers away from Yankee stadium and he was of no better than another pitcher on their roster that could have starter away games or been a bullpen arm. As good as the Yankees were their staff wasn’t great either by the way and he still couldn’t crack the roster. Cashman couldn’t say bye fast enough after the season. Lots of contending teams in win now mode not willing to beat the Reds offer of their 6 of 7th organizations best prospects to acquire Gray to try to win it this year. With that being said he’s much better than the other two additions with some upside. The Nats are a team that were actually close and are actually going for it they went out and signed Corbin to bolster their rotation now and for the future which led them to deal Roark to the Reds for a mere top 20 Reds prospect. Sounds like there was a real fight for his services. Then there’s Wood who is harder to compare in trade in that package deal of salaries and multiple players but he was on the World Series roster but solely as a left handed reliever. Not a guy a contender asks to win a playoff game but a guy they could use to match up in their favor or lefty vs lefty. If he was right handed he also would not have been good enough to make a postseason roster. The Reds are trying to build a contender during a rebuild from a bunch of castaways on the last years of their contracts. The Cardinals finished just behind the Cubs and Brewers so they went out and got Goldschmidt and Andrew Miller to fill their holes. Those are moves that make a team that’s close a legit threat or gets them over the hump. I’d be selling anything that I had of value for young talent that fit my timeline of putting a winning team together that could be sustained for a handful of years with the Reds limited payroll. You’re seeing the Cubs checkbook closing and farm system far from what it was not long ago. The Brewers also have a small market payroll and they can only do so much outside of drafting and developing. The Cardinals rarely go crazy either way. Spend more than the Reds but less than Cubs. They won’t rebuild or blow up the farm either so if you build it right they can be overtaken. Save your money and build a sustainable true contender not this collection of misfit toys. The only two guys I see added here that have a chance to make sense are Gray and Puig. Those are the only two with the potential to bring back what you gave up or potentially more. That’s not saying they will that’s just to say those two have actual talent that the rest have either long since lost or have been around the majors plenty long enough for their true colors to shine. We know who they are and who they aren’t. No contender will be interested in their services at the deadline. Hopefully this season of being a little better makes Reds fans feel warm and fuzzy because 2019 will be nothing more than mediocre at best and 2020 will require another complete roster overhaul and with a few less minor league pieces, money spent in 2019 that should have been held back for future, and a few added wins will net them a few spots worse in draft selection.
Sorry for the stupid long rant I rarely comment just like reading fans opinions on their teams organizations and things I might not know without following them everyday. It was a very detailed way of essentially saying that I know for sure that the Yankees and Dodgers viewed Gray and Wood as their number five starters considering their rank in the postseason and while I’m not positive on Roark I know the Nats added someone else to drop him for very little return. That for a team that’s not close during a rebuild with three good teams to overcome is something I don’t see any other organization doing
I think the reds plan is to try to compete in 19 while keeping the strength of their farm system in tact. They added positive WAR players to fill by far their biggest weakness. If it doesn’t work they can always trade at the deadline or extend QOs for draft picks. They really havent given up much, and they’ll have roughly 50 mil coming off the books to spend in fa for 2020. I think you undervalue the starters they received as well as how much of a weakness it has been, but your opinion was insightful. Both wood and Roark have consistent +WAR years. Gray is much more of a gamble imo, but has the highest ceiling potentially.
Wood was a Cy Young candidate in 2017.
Valid point but he wasn’t near that last year.
If by compete you mean improve but not overtake a team in the central that’s certainly been done. If I’m undervaluing the starters they’ve acquired its been because they were back end rotation guys on really good teams but by competing im assuming they mean to be one of those teams and you can’t by building a staff from a collection of those type starters. Maybe in the al central but not the nl central next year. I concede they haven’t dipped much into the farm but the Gray deal does cost more than peanuts those type guys can turn into something the more lotto tickets you have the better odds of winning some. That is yet to be determined. Can a player be extended a qualifying offer after being traded at this point? I know they can mid season. If so which guys are they extending 18+ million offers to that aren’t going to pounce on them?
The reds have one of the best lineups in the league and the worst starting rotation. Rebuilding with +war pitchers will be more effective than literally any other team doing it. By taking this strategy they also keep all of their top prospects, and have 50 mil to spend in fa next off season. If they dont make the playoffs what have they lost? At least they’ll be competitive.
Agree on all of that. Being competitive beats the daylights out of what we’ve seen the past several years. My only concern with this strategy is that the team will be in the same spot next year needing to fill 3 rotation spots. Now $50 mil to spend will be nice. But will free agents want to come here? My guess is that has been a no this year, hence Dick Williams going the trade route to #getthepitching. But that’s a worry for another day. Today, let’s just enjoy the possibilities with an exponentially better rotation than the team had last year.
You offer some interesting insight. Some could work out that way .. maybe not. That’s why they play the games. Will definitely be more interesting than last year.
I read that the Reds have some minimum attendance thresholds they need to meet to be in compliance with their deal with the city. So they are pushing short-term commitments to avoid a total collapse to buy time for the prospects to develop.
That’s not something I’ve heard but an interesting factor. It would make sense for the city. If they help build the ballpark or give tax breaks they need fans downtown going to games spending money for that to pay off.
NYY should have traded gray to Oakland for Matt Olson a low A level prospect. Yanks also give them Kahnle and bird voit.
They would’ve never gotten Matt Olson for those pieces. I’m a Yankees fan too, and that is a completely ridiculous proposal. Four players from the Yankees 40-man (three of which are pieces at all-time low-points in their values) for one of the most crucial members of the A’s core. Nobody wants Kahnle if he looks like last year’s version (which is probably why you included him in this deal). The same can be said for Bird. Voit has a great run last season, but his age and previous track record really limits his trade value. They can’t get elite talent for spare/unwanted pieces. C’mon man.
The “1 year rentals” for starting pitching will gain popularity. Reds starting a trend
Enough…. just post again when a gray deal is actually done. Seriously. Enough.
you can just ignore it.
Hard to do when it’s been the top post on the thread every day for four days now…. “gray deal close”… “expect gray trade this weekend”…. “multiple teams on on gray”…. “gray to Yankees close”…. “Yankees reds finalizing gray deal”…. etc etc etc. It makes the posters on this site seem pretty much irrelevant. Watch, I’ll post a rumor right now:
“Machado and Harper in contact with multiple teams.”
Give me my headline!!
The title of this site does say “ rumor”
Over/under: There will be 3 more updates before this deal is finalized or announced by teams?
Over.
Well since this post there has been one update. Think the over is a safe bet.
At the end of all of this someone fails a physical and the deal is off.
We have now completely entered the Twilight Zone……are the Reds including a Coconut Latte from Starbucks? Are the Yanks asking for a Blueberry Smoothie? America wants to know!!!!!
Three days later, I have determined that MLBTR definition of “finalizing” is much different than mine.
“A third piece”? Joey Votto?
Sorry, just kidding. I’m not stupid… I’m just thinking like a Yankee fan.
It’s going to be hilarious when Gray pitches to a 9-9 record with a 4.50 ERA and neither of the prospects make it to AAA……….
Shed Ling will be in AAA easily, already spent a year plus at AA
an offense minded 2b that strikes out a lot and has questionable defense. He’ll fit right in as a Yankee.
We have Torres set for the long term at second …
Long is either going to be 1) a warm body at AAA, 2) depth for 2B, or 3) will be flipped before the season for a lower level prospect at a more needed position. Any of these is fine, considering the goal of the trade was to free up the $$ and roster space.
Or maybe packaged with other prospects for a front line starter.
Shed Long, not Ling. Typo I guess.
Yep
Why will that be hilarious? That will be a win for the Yankees (for dumping $9M, and a wash for the Reds (who lost nothing special and got a replacement level pitcher).
Why would Gray signing an extension affect the return?? He is what he is at present. If he signs an extension that’s on the Reds. Nothing to do with the Yankees. Why would they benefit from the Reds extending more commitment???
Agreed, unless 2 separate packages are on the table.
Well it would make sense. 1 year of control versus multiple years of control. I can see that being a factor and having multiple deals in place on that condition.
Bc when the reds make the offer they say conditional on him signing an extension obviously
Shed is an overpay for a one rental.
He is then worth more to the Reds.
The Yankees would get more in trade because they are allowing one of their players to negotiate an extension with another team while still under contract.
The Reds would gain the certainty of having that commitment ‘before’ the trade was made and that has value.
This is actually really smart by the Reds. I have to give there front office credit. If they can extend him for a few more years he is worth more to them then just a one year rental.
The Yankees only control him for one more year and I’m guessing if he doesn’t extend then they won’t be getting that 36th pick in the draft. This makes a lot more sense to me. Trading Long, the 36th pick in the upcoming draft, and a lesser pick was just an overpay for One year of Gray.
July 31, 2019. 11:57 PM The yankees are still hopeful that a deal can be worked out before the deadline. Even though they trail the surprising blue jays by 28 games, they still feel they can catch the wild card angels and their triple crown candidate blake swihart.
Seeing Gray was just complaining about being “wanted”, the Reds wanting an extension shouldn’t take long seeing that is the ultimate sign of wanting him. The Reds are nuts for wanting to extend a guy coming off a down year in which he was bad in a hitters park, being traded to another hitters park. I can see if San Diego wanted to extend him, but I don’t see him fairing much better with the Reds in that ballpark.
My thoughts are this is a bargaining ploy by the reds to give less in the trade. If gray takes a very team friendly deal that would be ok too, but I dont see much of a negotiation going on here. It’s going to be a take it or leave it proposal.
What kind of deal is on the table?
2 years, $22mil with a team option for two more at $38mil or a player option at $30mil, providing that he starts at least 40 games in the first 2 years?
If you are Gray do you, 1. Bank that you are better than you were and say no to an extension, understanding that it may mean you stay with the Yankees in a reduced role, or 2. Sign the extension and thank your lucky stars anyone wanted to give you more money and years after the nightmare season you just had?
I am pulling for him, because I ultimately feel bad with how much of a mismatch the Yankees were for him.
One thing that may play in to this that isn’t being mentioned is his hometown. He grew up only a 4 1/2 hours south of Cindy in the Nashville area. There is something to be said for that. Considering where he has played in his career, it’s almost like playing at home.
*Cincy
I think Pickles gotta take the money.
Less than Long and the draft pick?
Reds are looking to buy low on Gray. Pretty interesting. If they can’t extend him will it effect what they give and/or what they get back?
Gray pitched different in New York. Less fastball and more cutter. Less attack This could be pretty good for them.
Can someone explain what the hell the reds are doing?
Sonny Gray would be the Yankees 8th choice to start a game.
Yet they are giving up a draft pick, a decent prospect and taking on his salary?
What sense does this make? Or any of their other moves?
Hell, even if all their moves worked out theyre still probably not making the playoffs and everyone is a free agent and a bunch of prospects are gone.
One of the oddest strategies I’ve ever seen.
It truly makes no sense.
Reds attendance dropped 11% this year, lowest since 1984. Attendance has declined 5 straight years and they finished in last place for the 4th consecutive year.
We can debate the wisdom of their moves and the short-term v. long-term impact, but this is why they are doing what they are doing.
With all the moves they have done they still have their core prospects. None of the top 5 were moved … yet. It’s been repeated on here but they can flip these players at the trade deadline for prospects if this doesn’t work. I think how much this can help this team is understated. I actually like the strategy.
First trade Tanner Rainey for Tanner Roark, Rainey tops out as a decent relief pitcher at best, Roark is a rotation stabilizer.
Second trade Homer Bailey and his $28 million contact along with the Reds being 1-19 in his 20 starts plus two promising prospects that are at least 2-3 years away for Puig, Kemp, Wood and a bench piece plus $7 million. Nobody was going to take Bailey’s albatross of a contract without getting something in return. Puig is a starter, Kemp will split time with Winker, both should thrive in Great American Smallpark. Wood is another rotation stabilizer.
Shed Long is blocked by Gennett and Senzel, he’s a good hitter but not a good defensive 2nd baseman. If they can extend Gray for 3-4 years total, it could be a good deal for the Reds. They are betting on a change of scenery and reunion with his collegiate pitching coach turning him around.
The Reds offense is excellent, Votto, Suarez, Winker and Gennett are all great OBP guys, as stated earlier Puig and Kemp should excel in that small ballpark, Jose Peraza quietly had an excellent 2018 at the plate. Senzel is going to play, a lot. Whether he is the everyday CF’er or in a Ben Zobrist role, he’s going to play. The rotation has been upgraded and the bullpen should improve simply by not being so overworked due to such an inept rotation. The coaching staff has been completely overhauled, there is a whole new culture now. This all had to happen because they are losing their fan base in droves, we are sick and tired of losing 95 games a year. And if they aren’t in contention at the deadline, Scooter Gennett, Puig, Kemp, Wood and Roark all become trade pieces and the Reds will only have around $65-$80 million in contracts on the books for 2020. They can trade for pitching and sign free agent position players, it’s a hitter friendly park.
Agreed. People are getting worked up over the Reds offseason but if you look at the big picture they have done quite well. Say they lose Sonny Gray after this year. If they make him a qualifying offer they will gain a draft pick which they can use on say, a college player who would only be 2 or 3 years away. Then you trade Shed Long or Tanner Rainey or Jeter Downs for either potential long term pieces in the rotation or replenish the system with comp picks. If they address center field, their lineup can hang with any in the NL on paper. Adding legitimate pieces to the rotation along with the potential emergence of Mahle, Castillo and company will make them interesting if not dangerous.
I doubt whether any of these guys get QO’s
Your opinion is highly valued as always
I have been a Reds fan since 1974, I watch between 75-100 games a year. The Reds had a stretch last year where they played as well as any team in the league. The key was everyone was healthy and they were getting good starting pitching. Then they traded Adam Duvall to Atlanta and a week or so later Jesse Winker was injured and out for the season. Castillo is an ace in the making, he just needs to put a full season together. I’m going to be laughing at all the “experts” in June and July when they start realizing how good this team can be. They are going to give everyone fits, if they played in the east, they would be in it for sure. The NL Central will be the best division in baseball in 2019.
Once they moved winker to the 5 spot they really took off. I’m interested to see how bell constructs the lineup. In a perfect world I see senzel playing CF and leading off followed by votto for protection and high OBP. Then you still get to slot in Suarez, scooter, puig and winker after that. Lineup will be scary good.
If “protection” were actually a thing wouldn’t Senzel’s OBP be higher without Votto batting behind him? Cuz the pitcher would just be walking Senzel every time he came up to bat, thus artificially inflating his OBP?
Did you even read what you just wrote? You have officially been deemed a troll in my eyes, and I will no longer entertain the validity of any of your opinions. Have fun talking to no one.
Oh no! You’re not happy with what I said, and the fact that it’s true, so you’re just gonna call me a troll? Laughable.
If Senzel didn’t have “protection” or whatever, then that would mean he isn’t getting any good pitches to hit. Which means he just walks a bunch. Thus, inflating his OBP.
You officially have no idea what you are talking about and lack any form of baseball knowledge. Go back to reading ESPN articles on the Yankees. Cubs, and Dodgers because you clearly know nothing about the Reds.
I forget more about baseball when I sneeze than you will ever know. Go drink some breast milk and go back to watching Dragon Tales.
Everyone in this line up has protection. It’s like the Trojan Express
Lmao
I am nota Reds fan but on last year Scooter Gennet and Votto were on my fantasy team so I kept upon the Reds.I agree with you that they could surprise if Roark Gray and Wood perform well.Last year iafter there horrendous start they were an interesting team.Considering Votto could definitely have a better year this year with Suarez Gennet and others they could have a pretty scaryoffense this year.I can see the Cubs and Brewers coming back to the pack and the Reds being at least somewhat in the mix. The Brewers are a good team but I don’t see Yelich repeating his amazing year (another member of my fantasy team btw) and the Cubs pitching staff not great with their ace aging.
I wonder how long the negotiating window is open.
Back when the Reds traded for Griffey, it was 72 hours. I imagine that it still is.
It is 72 hours, and it ends today, just not sure when.
I don’t think these guys know what “finalizing” means.
Seriously… there have been about 10-12 updates on the sonny gray “close to being dealt” in the last 3-4 days.
Pretty stoked on the Reds offseason. Good job on their part!
“72 hour negotiation window” – what is this?
The Reds have 72 hours to work out an extension with him. At the conclusion of that 72 hours they will make the trade or decide not to
But who sets this window? Is it law? It seems like a made-up thing.
I think the commissioner’s has to approve it but if both teams agree to it they usually do. They did this when the Blue Jays traded for R.A. Dickey and I believe when the Red Sox traded for Adrian Gonzalez. The Phillies and White Sox tried to do this with Manny Machado last offseason but the Orioles said no.
I’m surprised you are just now hearing about this. It has been a common practice in sports trades for quite a long time
“72 hour negotiation window” I’ve seen that before where the receiving team is given 72 hrs to negotiate an extension before the trade is final.
I predict Gray gets 2/24, 3/33, or 4/42.5 starting in 2020.
I wonder if Gray’s extension will make the agents for Roark and Wood less or more interested in getting similar extensions for their clients.
“Yankees, Reds “Finalizing” Sonny Gray Trade”
“A resolution on a Yankees-Reds trade is not expected tonight”
Which one is it?
Yankees this Yankees that. What is that 14 updates this weekend on The Gray trade
What do you want then to do, report on teams no one cares about, like the angels?
It’s like watching paint dry…
720 replies for a post on Sonny flippin’ Gray………Can’t imagine what would happen if Red Sox were in “negotiations” to trade Blake Swihart…….
722
Cancel the rest of this “offseason.”
If the terms being stated are true what a bad trade for the Yanks Gray even with a bad season is worth more than a average minor league and a future draft pick
But Cashman is a demigod…
Considering that Gray can’t pitch in Yankee Stadium, this is a good deal for NY. They didn’t give up much to get him ( 2 injured minor leaguers and another that they had no place for). After last season they have to be glad to be able to send Gray elsewhere.
A one-year rental who had a 4.90 ERA last year who it was known his team wanted to get rid of? They were lucky to get Shed Long alone for Gray. Let alone Shed Long and that draft pick.
You go redrooster…..you got it!!!! An “iffy” prospect is all that Cinnci SHOULD give…..but I haven’t exactly been overwhelmed by their moves this offseason….
Maybe if the Yanks re-acquire Rob Refsnyder and put him in the deal……
Hey, they’re trading for Shed Long. Not Eugenio Suarez!
Was it all part of cashmans master plan in getting the most out of his players making it publicly known that gray would be traded. That’s next level
Just curious ….what’s the record for replies?
Dunno about the record for replies, but redrooster has the record for dumb replies.
Shut up. You’ll never be half the man your mother is.
Witty
Now sign keuchel and trade for Eaton ( Washington will sign Harper ) than Cincinnati has a very good chance at winning the division.
Would love Keuchel, but there’s no way the reds have money for that. If they could somehow find away to unload Kemp they would be players.
The Reds need an ACE. I hope they get Kluber or Keuchel. If we are going for it then let’s really go for it. The fans are tired of losing.
I’m a Reds fan as well, I wouldn’t pay the price for Kluber. We need Senzel, Green, Trammell for the future.
We have been playing for the future for the last seven years. The Red Sox and Yanks have no problem trading a prospect for a proven player. Kluber is a two time Cy Young pitcher with control through 2021.
Who knows what the indians are asking for. Obviously kluber is a top flight pitcher, but both his age and salary diminish his value. Not all top 5 pitchers are valued equally those things do matter
First, There’s a lot to blame on the ownership and front office of the Reds that have caused this rebuild to fail. 1. They gave out bad contracts to aging players (Brandon Phillips and Homer Bailey specifically) 2. We did not have enough roster turnover and held on to players far to long and didn’t maximize their peak trade value (Cozart, Cueto, Frazier, etc) 3. The prospects returned in packages have been awful (Chapman and Cueto deals specially)
Next, getting Kluber will not make us playoff contenders unless we then sign or trade for a CF and another bullpen arm and the Reds are at max salary right now after the addition of Kemp, Roark, Puig, and Wood and it seems unlikely Kemp can be dealt without paying the majority of his salary.
Third, going back to one of my earlier points, bad contracts to aging players. This has crippled the Reds in the past, big market teams (NYY and Sox, etc) can absorb this and still get top free agents and international players. We simply cannot, we must be smarter about roster turnover and building a farm system.
Let me bring all this together and tell you what the Reds must do to be successful. They need to trade Scooter Gennett and Scott Schebler for a CFer and a bullpen arm. They need to put Senzel at 2B immediately. After next season, you take the 60 million or so dollars that came off the books and you A. Resign Puig if possible B. Resign one of the pitchers we traded for (I prefer Alex Wood) C. Take remaining funds and sign another SP to take the place of Roark D. Let Trammell develop and then bring him up in 2020/2021 and man CF.
More trades can and should happen but that’s a quick plan for a successful future of our beloved Reds.
Shouldn’t Cincy have all the leverage here? Seems like they’re negotiating on their heels. Yanks are the ones desperate to get rid of Sonny Gray.
And Cincy’s working on extending Gray? Home/Road splits or not, Gray’s coming off a bad year. Does not make sense unless Cincy’s front office is as bad as people say.
Can’t see Reds fans being happy about this. Could be wrong….
Well… as a Reds fan.. this kind of puts things in perspective. By that I mean .. that’s how freakin bad it was last year. It makes Sonny boy look like Nolan Ryan
So one bad year means he can no longer be the effective pitcher he was? I don’t understand this logic.
I was referring to the Reds rotation was that bad. Not Sonny Gray .. Sonny Gray is like Nolan Ryan compared to the trash rotation we had last year
Yeah, but there’s a 72hour window to negotiate a deal. If the reds aren’t satisfied with the outcome, they simply don’t go thru with it.
Not to mention, I’m sure Grays struggles in 2018 would show in the money he receives from the reds in a extension.
Why would reds fans be upset at this point? They mite not even be getting Gray at all., and they mite be getting him at a solid price, if they even do. Shoot, even though i like the return for the yanks, it’s not overly hurtful to the reds with guys like Senzel and India more touted infield prospects and Suarez and Peraza already obviously in the infield fold.
Yanks are not desperate to get rid of Gray. He’s already been replaced in the rotation. He’d be competing for a depth role against Cessa, Loasiga and Adams in Spring Training. It’s not like opening day is tomorrow. Just maximize whatever value he has and get the best deal you can, even if you have to wait until the end of Spring Training. Someone will start the year on the DL and want an established starter, even one coming off a poor season.
If the Yanks aren’t desperate to get rid of Gray, keep him. If he’s been replaced, as you say, they are desperate to get rid of him. Yeah, they are desperate to get rid of Gray.
Trim reaper are you really that stupid he had one bad year and still finished above .500 why would the reds want to extend him if he was garbage. The Yankees are playing this smart. And no they aren’t desparate. They have other teams lined up if this falls through. How is that being desparate.
Other teams are this as a chance to get a former top of the rotation starter cheap. And they are chomping at the bit lining up to get him because they know NY can be too hard on some people and they can’t handle the pressure.
They are playing it smart and not desperate to move him yet they let it be known publicly that he would be traded. Interesting pov
It was all part of the plan!
Obviously it was part of the plan, considering that they were very vocal about trading him. The question is does that make it a good plan. We will see how it pans out.
The Ottavino signing means the Yanks have 41 players on their 40-man. So, yeah, they are kinda desperate to get rid of Gray lol.
Shed Long is on the 40. If this trade occurs as presently constituted the Yanks still have to DFA someone.
luis cessa traded for int pool money should be the yankees move. but theyll probably just dfa him since it doesnt seem like any talks about luis cessa going anywhere
Yet another non-update update…. thanks MLBTR
Actually – they are keeping us up to date with rumors? Not sure why people don’t like this. Just sign up for your team on another site and you can learn when they pick someone up.
We have learned players involved and that more may be involved of an extension is agreed to. Definitely an update.
Right, i don’t get people who complain about reading these articles. DON’T READ them. I only get alerts when it comes to Reds rumors. I signed up for them because they are of interest to me. If I decided that I am no longer interested I would stop the alerts.
the update is about the Reds wanting to extend Gray. its an integral part of the trade. i know reading comprehension is tough sometimes
Take your time, nobody is in any rush to get anything done.
This is starting to remind me of another “Homer” deal !!
How many of these updates do we have to read?!? Just pull the trigger already!!!
Let’s be real. There is no way Grey will sign an extension on the heels of free agency.
Under normal conditions, I would agree with that. Given the fate many free agents have faced these past two offseason, and his less than stellar performance, he might think more seriously about guaranteed money.
Let me fix that. On the heels of free agency. There is no way he signs an extension with a team in the basement that has a tiny ballpark
Grey may not agree to an extension BUT Sonny Gray might look at it as money in the bank NOW is better than what MAY not be offered next year.
Go ahead Yankees, take the other deal.
July 31, 2019 – both the Yankees and Reds are close to finalizing the final papers that are necessary to finalize the deal…
Can we just stop posting this one? Post it when it’s final. It’s painful seeing recycled articles over and over each time someone tweets something.
What, did you just blow in from stupid town?
nope. just your mom’s.
Okay, I can understand rolling the dice on the chance he regains his consistent/reliable innings eater status … but hitching your wagon for a few years via an extension before you have any indication that bounce back is likely?
*boggle*
You have absolutely no idea of the terms being discussed
I hope it falls through and they get somebody better than Shed Long. He’s practically a MIDGET, and unless somebody is as good as Altuve, they won’t survive long in the bigs being so tiny.
The Yankees should be glad to get ANYONE for Sonny Gray. There are a dozen Sonny Grays available in free agency; why anyone would give up anything more than a low level, long shot prospect is beyond me.
This “jjb” guy sounds like the weasel that was trolling the Reds’ Reddit page the other day. Same “argument,” same insults. Until he got booted, lol.
Word to the troll: that the Yankees accepted the Reds’ trade offer means you’re not getting a better deal. Say hi to your midget Brett Gardner for us, though.
Dumas, if Cash could have gotten anyone better than Long he would have traded with the other teams. Stop making Yankees fans look bad.
This trade has taken so long, Are you sure this not the July non waiver dead line.???
Could possibly see 5 teams at or above .500. IMO, if injuries are not as big a factor this season it will end up 1. Cubs 2. Cards 3. Brewers/Reds coin flip 5. Pirates.
Brewers, Cubs, cards/pirates, reds. 95 wins takes the division and 75-87 is the bottom.
As a Cubs fan, I’m not looking forward to playing any team in the Central. Should be fun!
We’re going to cannibalize each other more so than in years past. But that’ll just make our division winner stronger in the playoffs. It might keep the rest of the teams in the Central out of the Wild Card though if we beat each other up. Especially with the Nats healthy again and Philly getting better.
NL Central champs over/under 92 wins? I seriously can’t emphatically decide one way or another
Under
Jeff, can we start a new thread for this? You know, “Sonny Gray rumors 1/21/19” or something? My thumb is getting sore from swiping all the way down to the bottom. #firstworldproblems
December 2037
Reds/Sonny Gray deal close, per source.
– Jon Heyman
Nailed it
Which happens first, the sonny gray trade or the wall?
Just keep reading the tweets for clues.
i say the gray trade. the dems refuse to even discuss terms. at least both parties are willing to talk to each other here
Blows my mind this guy is even up for an extension. People think half your body of work just doesnt matter?
His CAREER overall #’s do in fact warrant a (decent/moderate)extension. His year as a Yankee, not so much.
Taking their sweet ass time on this one.
theyre not making the trade to entertain you
Actually they are. All sports are entertainment businesses.
Who knew that a trade involving a buy low pitcher going to a that may compete for the 2nd WC and a decent prospect going to a team that has no clear need for a prospect playing the position the prospect plays would take a week of very public negotations. You’d think this was a trade of like Kershaw for Vlad Jr for all the coverage its’ getting and how in depth the negotiations have been.
Today’s window for the Reds to extend Gray ended at 5 pm EST. Cash didn’t get the trade done and Long plus a #36 overall pick was far better than I thought he would get. Who is next on his list?
Doubt if Gray makes that much impact for the Reds, Too many other strong teams in that division. Other than the Reds, ANY of the other 4 teams could either finish 1st or 4th it is really that close, yes even Pittsburgh could surprise us. Cubs, on paper have most rounded club but always injured. Milwaukee has best bullpen and best coach, but not a very formidable rotation. Cardinals have a seriously good lineup and then Hicks/Miller to close out games is going to be tough. Pittsburgh may not have too much offensively, but they have quality starters and solid back end of the bullpen.
LOL, alway a troll
Rosenthal states that the extension for gray is 3 years 30.5 million