The Padres persist in their dogged pursuit of Indians ace Corey Kluber, per MLB.com’s JP Morosi, who notes that the club would prefer to hold on to each of its top five prospects. The Tribe reportedly “have interest” in lefty Adrian Morejon, who, despite his status as a consensus top 50-75 prospect, wouldn’t fall into the aforementioned category in a loaded Padre farm. Still, it’s tough to see a deal consummated without one of those players; Cleveland, after all, has been widely reported to be seeking a Chris Sale-esque return for Kluber, and wouldn’t likely settle for even high-grade chaff. If the club is still interested in dealing the 32-year-old ace, the Padres would be seem a perfect fit: the club is loaded not only with blue-chip prospects, but also sport a glut of young, if underperforming, outfielders at every position. Morosi lists Manuel Margot and Hunter Renfroe as options, though the Tribe may also have its eyes on Franmil Reyes and Franchy Cordero, in addition to the richly-paid Wil Myers.
More from the Senior Circuit …
- In the same article, Morosi reports that the Dodgers still “remain involved” in discussions for Kluber. The club certainly boasts its share of high-level farm talent – though it can’t match the San Diego riches – but thus far, under the tenure of Baseball Ops President Andrew Friedman, has been altogether opposed to dealing from the top of its farm. Multiple high-level departures would be an unequivocal sea change for the boys in blue, who may be feeling the pressure from a desperate fanbase after so many near-misses in the recent past. Adding Kluber to the top of the team’s rotation without a 25-man prune has to be tempting for even the most measured of front offices, but the slotted five (Clayton Kershaw, Walker Buehler, Hyun-Jin Ryu, Kenta Maeda, and Rich Hill) already rival any in the game.
- Though many executives questioned the veracity of the Nationals’ reported 10-year, $300MM offer to Bryce Harper on the last day of the season, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reports that the offer was “indeed real,” and that the two sides continue to negotiate. Harper, it seems, would very much like to surpass the $325MM guaranteed to Giancarlo Stanton, though doesn’t appear to have the wind-ranging market he once envisioned. Some interested teams continue to disguise their intentions, but not the Cubs, who Rosenthal notes “would love” a shot at Harper, if only the front office could get the “unlikely” go-ahead from ownership.
- Jim Salisbury of NBC Sports Philadelphia details the Fightins’ unique relationship with agent Scott Boras over the years, which reached a tipping point over 1997’s bitter dispute with number two overall pick J.D. Drew. The Phillies, of course, are set to meet with Harper today in Las Vegas, and have long been considered the near-favorite for his services. Per Salisbury, the club plans to address recent reports that the 26-year-old star is not fond of Philadelphia, which would seem to strike a death knell to the team’s chances. Among all potential suitors with near-term competitive ambitions, the Phils have the greatest need – and, perhaps, the most available cash – for Harper, and perhaps the team’s recent amenability with Boras could tip the scales in its direction.
Soldierofgod619
Hedges,Renfroe,Morejon,Naylor and Austin Allen for Kluber. Indians only take total of 2.5m owed to both Renfroe and Hedges plus 3 prospects.
bklynny67
Awful deal for the Indians. Let’s not act like all these Padres prospects are gonna be good MLB players. Morejon as the headliner is a joke, even though he’s a good prospect.
paulnewman
Awful? A joke? Pretty strong, what would you suggest?
ryno
The money is not a factor, so how much they take on is immaterial. Who are the sure things in that package? And why would anyone want Hedges and Renfroe? I do not see the 2 teams as a match.
Jacob Sizemore
I thought Cleveland was trying to cut payroll though? Why else trade Kluber? Definitely money would have something to do with it.
ryno
They traded Alonso, and Gomes to cut payroll. Technically Edwin as well, although the Santana trade off almost wiped that out. They have already cut around 20 mil for next year, so trading Kluber is definitely not a necessity. Their position has been that they will consider trading him for a package that considerably improves the team.
ohiocat5908
They have lost money the last two years. Payroll is at around $112 million right now. They probably have like $8 million at most to spend in FA or add via trade. So it’s either bargain bin shop or trade Kluber to gain extra money, prospects, and plug holes. Trading Kluber is the best way for Cle to position themselves to improve both now and for the future, however, they don’t have to if no appropriate offers present themselves.
ohiocat5908
They don’t “need” to, however, with little money to spend they are likely better off trading him.
Prospectnvstr
They would be better off trading him, but ONLY if they got the right pieces for him. They have some intriguing prospects further down the line but if they’re not going to trade Kluber @ .10 on the dollar.
hockeyjohn
Cleveland does not need Hedges after getting catcher Kevin Plawecki from the Mets, Naylor and Austin Allen are not strong enough prospects to get Kluber, Renfroe, Morejon, Yates and 1 or 2 other top prospects needed to get Kluber.
gson
Not just cut payroll… Redistribute the payroll to the areas where the team is weaker or doesn’t compete with the Stros/Red Sox level of ability. This would mean OF, BP, and, of course, talented pitching, perhaps in that order
A. Yatsuhashi
It is an awful deal. Three years of control of an elite starter (a rare bird these days) for a bunch of meh players? If the Indians do this, they are just plain dumb. You don’t give him up unless you get an established up and coming player AND a top 10 prospect (meaning top ten overall). Sale netted two high ceiling prospects and two other decent prospects. Why the rush to deal Kluber?
Strike Four
The rush to deal him comes from having a surplus of SP and he makes a lot of money they could use elsewhere.
That being said, if your trade deal doesn’t include any of a teams top 3 prospects (if not all of them), you best stay home.
jamess-7
You don’t know the players. Indians fans are just looking up where they are on our list and thinking we’re trying to screw them. All those guys have a chance to be above average players making the major league minimum.
hockeyjohn
Yes, they all have a chance to be above average players. They also have a chance to be a bust. We know what Corey Kluber is. Cleveland will only trade Kluber if they receive what they need. Padre outfielders have not performed as expected. Therefore, solid prospects need to be included. Just like you don’t want to trade one of the big five prospects, Cleveland might require one to make the deal. as it is hard to trade Kluber for the Indians. We will all have to wait and see if anything happens between the two teams. I trust the front office of the Indians to do what is right for the Tribe and their needs. .I would think that at least one of the prospects would be MLB ready.
Knowthemarket
Morejon could be a good start if the Indians were looking for prospects and not major league ready talent. I don’t think everyone is as keen on Renfroe though he is already a major league asset.
If the Indians are willing to take a prospect package then the Padres MIGHT be the only team who can keep their top five and still get this done. They could still offer 4 top 100 prospects, 1 of which is a top 50.
SDHotDawg
I would offer Hedges, Margot, Reyes, Morejon, and Perdomo. Nothing more unless they want take Myer’s contract. And they’d also need to toss in a lower level prospect.
ohiocat5908
The Indians would immediately hang up the phone. That’s a god awful offer. The Indians have no use for Hedges after the Pawlecki trade. Perdomo has a career 5.4 ERA in 355 innings. Margot is a fourth OF. Reyes and Morejon are ok, but not good enough to headline a deal.
larry48
Padres have no mlb players, all they have i aaaa players mot will fail.
SDHotDawg
Well, it was worth a shot. You’re close to being right about our ML roster. As of now, we don’t even have a SS or a Third baseman. Preller couldn’t/wouldn’t make a deal to keep Galvis, and he DFA’d a pretty decent rookie (Villanueva) who would have been a great stopgap 3B.
RedRooster
Yeah I don’t get DFAing Villanueva over Jose Pirela
SDHotDawg
Nobody understands that. Why Pirela is still on the roster is mind-boggling.
sportsnut969
I actually like Logan Allen more than Morejon .
The Indians would also have zero interest in Hedges at this point they have already addressed catcher for the moment.
I do not believe they are even talking unless Margot, Cordero , Gore, Urais and Allen is the package.
Carrington Spensor
This is the upteenth article about Kluber going to the Padres. At least 10 of them talked up by Morosi.
There have been thousands, and maybe over 10,000 trades proposed here the past 3 months. Most of them are the same. Nothing remotely realistic. The Padres and their fans won’t discuss the top prospects, instead offering pedestrian players that are good in a few categories, and/or have outrageous contracts.
The Indians need an OF. The Padres have too many. That’s as far as the match goes. If the Indians deal an experienced starting pitcher, they’ll want more then the Padres can spare. The Padres have plenty of pitching prospects, they don’t need another one from the Indians.
Move on.
RedRooster
*click*
sufferforsnakes
I just checked Morejon’s stats from High-A California League time. Yeah, that’s not a good start.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
I’m not a padres fan, but that’s a terrible reference point especially acknowledging he was 19. He threw at High A California League, which is basically equivalent to judging a prospect’s offensive stats in the Midwest league. Those stats are basically thrown out the window.
DCM
He’d be the 3rd or 4th piece, not the headliner…and he’s a top 6 left-hnded SP in the entire minors… he’s good
Matt Galvin
Replaces Hedges with Mejia.
sportsnut969
One of the reasons he was traded is they believed even though he would be a plus major league hitter he failed at handling a pitching staff and pitch calling,
Even though when in the Indians system he did play other positions Mejia was not happy about it and caused issues about it to the point that they finally traded him.
So Imo a return would not be in the cards for him
DCM
The Indians do not want Mejia back
El Kabong
Not a good deal for either team as the Padres are not yet a contender. Why doesn’t San Diego just stick to their plan as opposed to dealing prospects for a pitcher who turns 33 on April 10?
SDHotDawg
This offseason should offer plenty of evidence (so far) that Preller is confused and doesn’t have a “plan.”
I’m starting to believe that many, if not most, other GMs just don’t want to deal with him unless they can take advantage of him. Whether it’s his ethical record or just his unfriendly personality, there might be something to it.
Padres458
Hes just not going to give guys away. He has a plan. Dont know how you cant see it.
SDHotDawg
I’m in pretty good company with that opinion. I’m standing by it.
Swinging Friars
you and rooster…. yep, good company
Haters gonna hate I guess. Preller has done more than enough to disprove all the nonsense you two keep spewing
SDHotDawg
What has he done? Nothing except eat a lot of bad contracts to rebuild the farm system that he decimated. I’ve given him props for the farm many times, but the farm is still a crapshoot.
And the opinions are shared by a lot of people who are paid for those opinions, including former GMs and baseball writers. If you like making excuses for losing and questionable competence, that’s on you, and you alone. Especially when you have nothing to support your position!
DCM
They dont need Hedges, they just acquired Plawecki and have Perez and Haase. I’d say a much more realistic deal would be Renfroe, Yates, either Franmil or Margot and Morejon. Maybe Myers is in there if the Padres eat a large portion of his salary but he seems less likely. This deal would actually be something the Indians would take seriously
SDHotDawg
Whew. Our entire starting outfield, our closer, and a quality pitching prospect? For Kluber.
Hmmm … “I’ll call you back. Maybe.”
Davis2319
It’s ridiculously impressive how deep and talented the San Diego farm system is. I’m a Reds fan and think ours is good but nowhere near the Padres. The fact that they could probably make a deal for an ace without giving up any of their top 5 prospects it’s crazy.
BasedBallGuru
They couldn’t or they would. Everyone would prefer getting an ace without giving up anything. If all it took to headline a Kluber deal was a single top 50-60 prospect he would be long gone.
Knowthemarket
The Padres just MIGHT be able to pull it off if this was a normal team trading away an ace. They could offer the Indians a top 50 prospect plus another 3 top 100 prospects. That’s a package better than what nabbed Chris Sale.
The big difference here is the Indians want major league ready talent because they aren’t rebuilding.
Bruin1012
The Sale deal was top heavy. Remember Moncada was considered one of the top 3 prospects in baseball and and Kopech was top 30 so unless the Padres are throwing in two in the top 30 it isn’t a Sale type return.
Priggs89
Plus a toolsy outfielder in Basabe, who is probably going to sneak onto a couple top 100 lists this year. I’d take the Sale deal every day of the week over whatever Padres deal you’re offering without any of their top prospects.
Kluber isn’t getting moved without at least 1 player/prospect with elite talent.
Knowthemarket
At the time of the trade Kopech was not top 30. On top of that, Sale was not over 30 as Kluber will be 33 in April. So a top 50 prospect plus 3 top 100’s isn’t just more than fare, it’s an over pay that would actually be stupid to make.
Bruin1012
Kopech was actually the number 30 prospect and actually Moncada was the top prospect in more then one publication at time of trade so no a top 50 and some more top 100’s does not equal two top 30’s with one of those being the top prospect. If the Padres were to trade there too prospect and 3 more top 100’s then yes it would somewhat better but they won’t.
Prospectnvstr
Sale didn’t have the resume or the 2 Cy Young awards to his credit either. The only thing going against Kluber is his age. His performance & health do not raise any red flags.
Bruin1012
Sale has been just a little better by any stat period over his career it’s close but overall Sale has just been a little better.
Padres2019ha
Just his age…pretty big thing going against him. Sale will be signing and extension with his new team. Kluber will probably consider retiring with his. Not comparable as Sale was/is in his prime
RedRooster
Sale already signed one extension that ended up being a bad decision. Think he goes for the big payday in FA next year.
Swinging Friars
Why on earth do you guys think Kluber equals Sale? Nothing about this scenario is the same
The Red Sox will never have the same goals as the Padres. This comp is just silly
Most of you guys crying foul don’t even know the prospects being mentioned, just see that they are number 6, 7… for the Padres and go bazurks. Like someone just slapped Kluber in the face or something
hockeyjohn
Kluber is a two time Cy Young winner, an award that Sale hasn’t won yet. Kluber routinely pitches 200 innings a year. Sale does not. Also Cleveland does not have to trade him unless they get a package that helps them in 2019 and beyond.
San Diego also seems to overvalue their players as well. Margot and Renfroe have not lived up to their hype as of yet.
The two teams will come to an agreement or not. I trust the Indians front office to only make a move if it helps now and in the future.
Bruin1012
Hey Hockey do you like to make things up Sale has been over 200 innings three out of the last 4 years. Overall Sale has been just a little better then Kluber in his career. The only thing that Kluber has over Sale is two Cy Young’s but show me one stat that Kluber is better then Sale over their careers. Look it up show me one stat. Kluber has the hardware but pure numbers favor Sale in every pitching category.
DCM
Justin Verlander is comparable to Kluber, except Kluber was better at his age than Verlander was and Verlander will be 36 years old this season and still a CY Young candidate. Kluber won’t decline suddenly because he’s a bad fastball pitcher and velocity is usually what declines with age but Kluber doesn’t rely on velocity…. his cutter and curve and elite. He will be good for years to come…I’d guess another 4-6.
imindless
Sadly they would still be a bottom feeder in the divison for the next 5 years. They have had a top rated farm for the last 15 years and still cant provide a quality mlb roster.
Knowthemarket
Tired of reading this line. They have not had a top farm system that long. They traded away their top farm talent in 2015 to take a crack at contending. They traded for Kimbrel, Upton, Myers and others.
SDHotDawg
Get tired of hearing it all you want. They were most recently ranked #1 in 2012. In 2014, we were top 5 in most publications. Sorry if the truth hurts. I’m a Padres fan, too, but I can still be objective.
Do you have any idea how many teams have had “top ranked” farm systems that haven’t won?
Knowthemarket
Don’t just spout rhedorict. Post a source for your 2012 claim.
Now, seeing as I already said they traded away their farm to contend in 2015, they would have to have a top farm system to do that, wouldn’t they. I am not a Padres fan so I am not trying to protect myself from disappointment by being unrealistically jaded. So my contention that they haven’t had a top farm for 15 years is untrue.
Lastly, I know five teams in the last 6 or 7 years that have had top farms and won. I’ve already named the Cubs, Astros and Braves. In addition to that, the Dodgers and Yankees. Talk about their money all you want, but their farms have produced players that have contributed enormously.
RedRooster
Nice cherry picking bruh. What was the Padres’ farm system ranked 4 years ago?
SDHotDawg
For starters, Keith Law had them #1 in 2012. So did BP.
The 2014 rankings were 3-5, Law, BP, and BA. THAT was the farm that Preller traded away in the 2014/15 offseason.
In 2014, the Twins had the #1 ranked system, and the Pirates were #3.
In 2013, the Red Sox were #1, followed by the Astros, PADRES, and Rangers, in that order. The Cubs were #5.
In fact, the Rangers and Twins seem to consistently have top-10 farms.
The reality is that arbitrary farm system rankings are a completely unreliable indicator of future success.
bkbk
They are tied with the dodgers for world series victories over that period too, so maybe it’s not a great indicator of great teams.
captainsalty
Yeah and they’ve played at just about the same level too…oh wait never mind the Padres have been the door mat of the NL West for a long time
Stig
The Dodgers have spent 6 billion dollars (really) on major league payroll since their last title. That’s what they have done to be competitive. Nothing more.
captainsalty
And?
captainsalty
You’re obviously forgetting about homegrown talent that has actually panned out unlike the Madres minor leaguers
imindless
You seem mad because dodgers have a fan base 10x the size of yours. Why would dodgers be cheap if the funds are there and a lot of people want to see them do well?
larry48
Padres get prospect but don’t know or want to teach them how to get to the majors.
RedRooster
They certainly didn’t have a top-rated farm system 3.5 years ago. Colin Rea was their #2 prospect at that time.
SDHotDawg
3.5 years ago? 2015? You’re right. Preller had decimated the system. Most publications an pundits had us at 25-26.
RedRooster
See? I just made you agree with my statement that the Padres haven’t always had a top=ranked farm system for the past 15 years.
Again, when you do what they did during the 14-15 offseason, you are back to square one. Nothing that happened before then is relevant.
SDHotDawg
You never said that. You’re a liar. Again.
And if you can’t understand why it’s all relevant from season to season, thaat’s on you.
RedRooster
“You never said that. You’re a liar. Again.”
That’s funny, cuz I’m pretty sure I said “They certainly didn’t have a top-rated farm system 3.5 years ago. Colin Rea was their #2 prospect at that time.” in response to imindless saying that the Padres have had a top-ranked farm system for 15 years. It’s pretty embarrassing that you missed this considering it was ON THIS THREAD.
“And if you can’t understand why it’s all relevant from season to season, thaat’s on you.”
If you can’t understand that when you gut the farm system as they did 4 years ago you are back to square one of the rebuild, that’s on you.
Check. Mate.
dimitrios in la
Not sure that a loaded farm system necessarily means they’ll have a good club. Many super hyped prospects don’t even pan out. The test’ll be making them elite players. (Might be stating the obvious here.)
SDHotDawg
Don’t say that to any of my fellow Pads fans. A lot of them obsess on prospects, and have already raised them to All-Star status. They forget that we’ve had a lot of highly ranked farm systems in the past.
If just three of those guys become impact Major League players, we will have hit the jackpot.
RedRooster
Yeah, you’re right. Padres should just trade Tatis and Gore for Jason Heyward cuz we all know the rebuild is gonna fail. It’s all over Padres fans!
SDHotDawg
Be realistic. For a change. There is no such thing as a “can’t miss” prospect.
Where are those rebuild goalposts at now? 2020? 2021?
RedRooster
2021. Same place they were the last time you asked.
SDHotDawg
No, it changes every few months. If you’d been paying attention for the last few years you would know that. Or are you just lying to CYA?
RedRooster
Changes according to who? Certainly not me.
SDHotDawg
It amuses me to watch you and so many others keep changing the “year of contention” year after year. And then, go into spontaneous denial about it. It really is funny – in a pitiful sort of way.
You don’t know when we’ll be competitive any more than I do. Or anyone else, for that matter, including Preller. Yet, you choose to make it a point of contention. Ridiculous.
RedRooster
When have I changed my stance on the year of contention? Drop a link or gtfo.
No, I don’t know when the Padres will be contending again. I, like anyone else, can only speculate. And I have consistently said 2021.
SDHotDawg
LOL! Whatever you say. Now you can gtfo.
RedRooster
Man, your feet must hurt from all that backpedaling, huh skippy?
SDHotDawg
Your feet must hurt from dragging them off the short bus.
Maybe in a few years they’ll try to teach you about reading comprehension.
RedRooster
Lol pretty sure I already know about reading comprehension dumb dumb. Go back to watching Flavor of Love on VH1 classic. Your mom says hi!
Knowthemarket
It’s already been demonstrated that farms really can lift a team into contention. The Astros, Cubs and now the Braves have shown it.
SDHotDawg
Apples and oranges … confirmation bias … whatever you want to call it. They happened to hit on a few really good players. They also missed on a bunch. Mark Appel and Brady Aiken for starters …
kenleyfornia2
All of those teams had some solid MLB players that when combined with prospects elevated their club. Padres have absolutely nothing at the MLB level. They are banking entirely on the prospects
simschifan
Eric Hosmer and Will Meyers are nothing?
captainsalty
Yes when they are all alone
simschifan
What about Ian Kinsler and Hunter Renfroe?
kenleyfornia2
Ian Kinsler really dude…. Hosmer has one of the worst contracts in baseball and not even close to a top 1B
simschifan
But still the guys insinuating there are no good players on the Padres. I mean the ones I mentioned are pretty serviceable. I’m not saying they are Mike Trout
Knowthemarket
You are naming individual players that failed. I named entire teams that succeeded. Additionally, you are misusing the fallacy of confirmation bias. I don’t have an existing beliefe being supported by new evidence. I am presenting a NEW view supported by evidence that is older than my view. I didn’t know rebuilding teams could be so successful. You on the other hand seem to dismiss new evidence for your old bias.
SDHotDawg
Not really. You implied that a top farm system is the only way to win. That is demonstrably false. It certainly helps, but it is no guarantee. Not even close.
SDHotDawg
Simschifan –
Myers is barely a cut above nothing. Hosmer is slightly above average. And they both have terrible contracts.
SDHotDawg
kenleyfornia2 –
Those teams also made some big acquisitions via trades and free agency.
Willy Mays
If those are your top major leaguers thats pretty embarassing Hosmer maybe top 15 top 20 at his position and Wil Myers is decent no better
SDHotDawg
I agree. Is it any wonder our fanbase is so obsessed with prospects, and when we “plan” to be competitive?
It’s Preller leading us to the Land of Confusion.
deano 2
Harper still hit .247 last year. In what world is that worth $325M. I know he’s great, I know he’s young. But still. .247!!
philliephan1
The 2nd half be hit .300 and his OBP was .393 and OPS of .899. His career OPS is .900. That’s a lot of extra base hits and walks for a player age 20-25. And, He hustles
Cat Mando
“He hustles”. Except for all of the times he doesn’t on ground balls, fly balls and possible DP’s…..like here.
mlb.com/nationals/news/dave-martinez-on-bryce-harp…
There are plenty more example….just Google Bryce Harper no hustle.
anthonyd4412
Amen. WHO would pay &300m+ for a power hitting, inconsistent, poor fielding corner OF?
Tom
“Amen. WHO would pay &300m+ for a power hitting, inconsistent, poor fielding corner OF?”
An owner who wants to sell tickets and merchandise.
anthonyd4412
I agree, but that’s sad. The top thing Harper offers is marketing himself.
refereemn77
This. I’m guessing a club makes more on licensing (logo merchandise) than they do in ticket sales though…
Willy Mays
I agree The joke is how many people talk about him being a good fielder.Also 2 of last 3 years he didn’t hit over 250.As to the comment that he hit 300 the second half of last year. Could you imagine paying him 35 mill per to hit a 200 the first half of that year
IvyCoveredWalls
Batting average? Your entire comment is based on batting average.
wrigleywannabe
He had a sub 2 WAR.
3 of the last five years, he’s barely starter level.
jdgoat
Lmao he’s only had an fwar below 3 once in the past five years and in that season he only played 100 games.
Cat Mando
JDGoat…..He is quoting WAR from BB Ref…and therein lies the trouble with WAR
refereemn77
Exactly. To me, WAR has become a meaningless stat because it can be calculated differently. bWAR and fWAR sometimes come to different conclusions…
SDHotDawg
War is meaningless. It’s not even a stat. It’s a fun little shorthand number, but even Brian Kenny has finally admitted it’s just a “starting point” when looking at a player’s value. Bill James, the so-called Father of Sabremetrics has called it a joke. That says a lot about its validity as a stat.
Fever Pitch Guy
Agreed, there are so many better reasons to justify Harper not being worthy of a Stanton-esque contract:
Has hit more than 34 homers only once.
OPS has been over .889 only twice.
Had the 3rd most strikeouts in the league last year.
Never won a Gold Glove and probably never will.
Finished Top 10 in MVP just once.
Won a Silver Slugger award just once.
Absolutely awful when he’s got 2 strikes on him (.192 career BA)
Absolutely awful in Late & Close situations (.223 career BA)
The way he got overhyped here and elsewhere with predictions of a $400M+ contract was absurd. And now they write about how it’s “surprising so few teams are showing interest”. No, it’s not surprising at all. Being the top free agent of the winter doesn’t mean you deserve one of the biggest all-time contracts ever, sheesh.
Tom
Throw all the stats you want about Harper…there’s only one that matters. The Phillies have lost almost 2 million ticket sales annually this decade. Other than Mike Trout—who they cannot get—what player in baseball would generate more sales than Harper? Love him or hate him, people will come to see him play. And that matters more to ownership than how high his WAR is.
Carrington Spensor
Well Tom, if ticket sales and not winning are a Phillies priority, then Bryce Harper is your guy!
niched
People will come to see a winning team play, with or without Harper. At this point I suspect the Phillies won’t get Harper or Machado and they’ll probably be just fine in the long run
Carrington Spensor
Agree that people come to see a winning team. They can watch a batter on TV for free.
They might get Machado. Nats owner will beat any offer for Harper.
If by “they’ll probably be just fine in the long run” you mean that the Phillies will remain a MLB franchise, then I totally agree.
Tom
“Well Tom, if ticket sales and not winning are a Phillies priority, then Bryce Harper is your guy!”
I’m not talking about MY priority, but the business owner’s priority, and that is to make money. Winning is a distant second.
Tom
“People will come to see a winning team play, with or without Harper.”
You are right…to a point. At what point do Phillies’ fans trust that the team is a “winning team”? They were in first place in August last year, and yet CBP was practically a ghosts town. Fans might start filling the seats in 2020 IF they make the playoffs in 2019, likely not before. (Maybe somewhat in September.)
However, signing an incredibly marketable player liker Harper would bring the fans (or haters) in quicker, and hopefully they continue building a winning team that drives/maintains ticket sales in future years.
The Phillies have no idea if they’re going to be successful enough to warrant an uptick in tickets sales based solely on their performance. The Nationals—with or without Harper—are better, and so are the Braves. As a business their first priority is the bottom line…signing Harper would help with that quicker and easier than building a winning team would.
Tom
“Agree that people come to see a winning team. They can watch a batter on TV for free.”
Then why did/do Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Mike Trout, et el fill ballparks? You can’t cheer or boo players from your TV screen.
Fever Pitch Guy
The Phillies haven’t won a championship in a decade, and haven’t made the postseason in 7 years. I think winning would sell a lot more tickets and merchandise than Harper, who BTW hasn’t been very good in the postseason (.801 OPS) which is a big reason why the Nats haven’t won a postseason series with him.
And I don’t see how a fanbase can suddenly embrace a bitter division rival player that they’ve hated for years.
GrandpaBaseball
Hmm, I know, I know, Mookie Betts!
niched
The Phillies won the World Series 10 years ago. It’s not like a rebounding team with money to spend, be it the Phillies or someone else, must dole out ridiculous dollars to the latest overrated free agent just to win. Yes they did spend major dollars on Ryan Howard, but that was after their WS championship. Plus that contract ended up being a bad one for them. There’s a reason teams are not paying Harper and Machado their asking prices. These are very good players but it’s not like these guys are Mike Trout or Jacob Degrom stupid record breaking money good.
Empire Exoticz
There is something called jersey Sales. Cano was one of the best 2b and wasn’t even top 20 in jerseys. Players are not only selling their performance in the field.
bigrickdeemann
Last season season was a tale of two halves. Post-All-Star break Harper was unstoppable. He hit .300, a mark he has maintained for entire seasons, and upped his OPS to .972; Harper was proving he is more than just homers. Batting average aside, Harper still produced 34 home runs, 100 RBI’s, an .889 OPS and a 133 OPS+. Harper has been a monster from day one. He has hit the 12th most home runs ever through a players age 25 season and has the fourth-most home runs in a single season by a 22-year old from his MVP season in 2012. Harper is a hitting machine with runners on base, an issue the Dodgers had all season. With a runner on any bag, Harper has hit a career .295 with a .523 slugging percentage. Harper would bring value to the heart of the lineup.
fox471 Dave
Good analysis.
Bart Harley Jarvis
(With apologies to Allen Iverson…)
But we’re talking about batting average, man. What are we talking about? Batting average? We’re talking about batting average, man?
We’re talking about batting average. We’re talking about batting average. We ain’t talking about WAR. We’re talking about batting average, man.
dimitrios in la
He’s actually not great. And can you imagine the pressure to WIN NOW that Harper and his albatross/contract would bring onto any team he signs with.
jdgoat
Your definition of great must not be the same as mine…
dimitrios in la
I think we’ve established that.
nymetsking
Must be. He’s very good, not great. Look at his resume instead of his name. He’s had at best two elite seasons. He still has time to be great, but he’s not there yet.
lowtalker1
A great player is trout
He is apart of everyone else
jdgoat
But how? He’s currently has a career ops plus of 139. And that’s with him only entering his prime years now. How you don’t think that is great is just something I can’t comprehend.
Fever Pitch Guy
Definition of great begins with Betts, Trout, Arenado.
jdgoat
And Harper is definitely in that group. Especially if Arenado is apart of it.
Tom
“A great player is trout ”
If your definition of a great player is Trout, then there have been very few “great” players in baseball history. I based on their early careers, and career trajectory Ken Griffey Jr. isn’t nearly as good as Trout, so he wasn’t great. Neither was Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Ted Williams or hardly anyone.
If your basis for “great” is the greatest all-around player most of us have ever seen, then it’s quite impossible for anyone to be “great”. That’s like saying Albert Pujols wasn’t a great hitter because he wasn’t as good as Bonds.
niched
More Altuve than Arenado, maybe Bregman and Judge ahead of Arenado too
Carrington Spensor
Tom;
You’re not really comparing Bryce Harper to Ken Griffey Jr., Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, and Ted Williams, are you?
A more apt comparison would be with Dave Kingman and Gorman Thomas – with a strong arm (though inaccurate and one that often throws to the wrong base) and speed.
Griffey, Aaron, Mays, and Williams calling cards were not HR, K, or W. Then again, they had high BA’s, and we know how meaningless that is.
jdgoat
Harper is way, way closer to Griffey than he is to Kingman or Thomas. When it comes to skill and output anyways.
Carrington Spensor
Not so much skill and output. Flashy for sure.
And other then flash, no comparison at all to Junior, who was a smart player from day one.
Fever Pitch Guy
Yeah I’d endorse Altuve, and Judge might make the list in a couple years but it’s too soon for him. I think minimum 4 full years to qualify for greatness.
jdgoat
Harper has a better obp, OPS+, and his slugging is only slightly lower than juniors. Of course there is a comparison. It’s actually a pretty good one.
jdgoat
And their ops is only .007 off. They almost have the exact same output!
nymetsking
Darryl Strawberry had a career 138. Guess he’s great too?
niched
Take the cocaine away from Darryl Strawberry and he could have been somewhere between Frank Robinson and Mickey Mantle
luclusciano
Luckily they are not paying him for last year, he already collected on that. I agree – he may not be worth a long term contract, especially at that price tag, but 1 year and just looking at a ba does not equate tonwhy or why not to sign.
stymeedone
For the money he is asking, shouldn’t batting average be a part of the equation? If he wants to be paid like he has no flaws, then he should hit like a Pujols or Cabrera in their prime.
Knowthemarket
SMH..people that use batting average as ANY kind of final judgement.
SDHotDawg
As a “final judgement,” I agree. But it still means something, and it’s still important.
fasbal1
The Indians aren’t getting the Chris Sale haul for Kluber, hes great but no one is going to meet that price…..as far as the Cubs front office is concerned, sure they would like to sign Harper and further hand cuff there team with an exorbitant payroll. I think the Cubs ownership is too smart to let that happen again.
Fever Pitch Guy
Sale was 5 years younger than Kluber is now, had a much more reasonable remaining contract than Kluber has now, and was a lot better than Kluber is now. So no comparison.
ohiocat5908
How was Sale “a lot better” than Kluber at the time of the trade? Also, how was Sale’s contract “much more reasonable”?
Fever Pitch Guy
Really? Questioning Sale’s $39.5M/3 years vs Kluber’s $52.5M/3 years?
ohiocat5908
How is 13M difference over 3 years “much more reasonable”? It’s very minimal and hardly worth mentioning.
Fever Pitch Guy
33% more is significant to most people.
fieldsj2
why should teams even bother with arbitration then? 4.3 million not worth mentioning? SMH
Swinging Friars
$13m is hardly mentionable?!?
Teams are treating the luxury tax as a cap because they don’t want to spend half that amount
It’s a sad day in America when $13m isn’t worth mentioning
Indiansjoe
Sale never led the league in innings pitched, only once in his career topped Kluber in era, had played a full season like twice? The only thing sale does better is strike outs. Kluber is the better pitcher and the would need to get a better haul or he stays on a playoff team.
Fever Pitch Guy
I was factoring in age. Kluber has likely already peaked, while Sale was on an upward trend at the time of the trade.
Sale was Top 6 in Cy voting 5 consecutive years before turning 28, there was no fear of a continuing decline the way there is with Kluber now. Instead, there were expectations of him evolving into one of the game’s Top 3 starters.
That is what made him much better than Kluber is now..
ohiocat5908
Age is the only thing making him better. That of course does lessen risk going forward, however, Sale was not a better pitcher at the time of the deal.
refereemn77
He’s also five years older and owed more money than Sale was. Only a crazy stupid money front office would provide the same return as the Red Sox gave ChiSox. And since crazy stupid money FO (Philadelphia) is already after Harper, the Cleveland FO might be crazy asking for as much for Kluber.
Bruin1012
Hey Indiansjoe I think you better check your facts there Cochise. In fact in there careers so far Sale has the better Career ERA pretty much any pitching stat you can come up with Sale has been just a little better in his career to this point. Sale has had a little more innings about 150 more but you get the idea. Stats don’t lie Sale has been just a little better overall and he was Younger when he was traded and was worth more then Kluber is at this point in his career.
Bruin1012
Also Sale was cheaper then Kluber would be. Kluber won’t get the return that Sale did.
Carrington Spensor
The Sox had to trade Sale.
Who says the Indians have to trade Kluber.
From what I’ve been reading, Kluber is off the market.
Fever Pitch Guy
Based on pure numbers and not age, I agree.
Fever Pitch Guy
The Indians need to clear payroll, that’s why Kluber has been shopped.
norcalguardiansfan
They have cleared the required payroll by dealing Encarnacion, Gomes and Alonso. They don’t have to trade Kluber. In my opinion, they won’t trade him this winter.
RedRooster
And even if they did need to clear payroll if they traded Kluber his production would just have to be replaced. And that would cost a lot more than whatever they are paying him.
Polish Hammer
They have capable SPs that would all bump up one spot on the totem pole, with the difference still not being enough to keep them from contending for the pennant.
Swinging Friars
finally a sensible comment, thank you Fever
Kluber is a great pitcher. This situation is nothing like Sale’s trade
Swinging Friars
The Indians have more than enough talent to cover for Kluber’s absence
hockeyjohn
Yes, the Indians have starting pitching to cover for Kluber’s absence. That does not mean that they should trade him for less than the best offer that they can get. And if they don’t get an offer they like, then the Indians can keep Kluber.
xabial
Harper to the Yankees
mobile.twitter.com/MaxWildstein/status/10780813571…
Sorry Nationals, Phillies, White Sox
dimitrios in la
I’m getting sleepy.
xabial
lol sorry. Found that link randomly googling it
It’s from Dec 26 and Harper met with Phillies after..
Keep the faith!
Knowthemarket
Xabial…for your sake I am actually starting to wish the Yankees sign him.
Just..if they don’t..please don’t commit suicide by jumping off the highest point of Yankee stadium. =)
sportsnut969
I believe Harper will get the 30 mil per range just not the years he wants.
I could see Harper going back to Washington on a 1 year deal then he would be a free agent again next year.
nymetsking
1 year? Good one!
Cat Mando
Remember Dan Clark…the guy who guaranteed Manny to NYY…he deleted his Twitter. I believe Twitter reports when they happen.
luclusciano
For your sake, I hope it happens. And, for the Yankees sake. I say Harper to the Yankees (you made me a believer) and a package of Gray, Ellsbury + 12 mil (making him 15mil per season) and Frazier to a team for relief and some prospects.
Knowthemarket
If you are going to send THAT package to a team I think it’s the Yankees that will have to send the prospects.
harmoney101575
WOW… NEWS FROM THE NY POST!!!! that is the worst newspaper LMAO…. if you see, it says no interest from the Yankees on Harper
yanks02026
Guess what, no one knew Yankees were interested in DJ Lemahieu and they signed him yesterday
harmoney101575
LMAO….. keep making your own hype yankee fan!
niched
Lol, LeMahieu would have been a Baltimore Orioles signing if they weren’t in a rebuild. LeMahieu is who you sign when the top free agents look like they’re not worth it
DadsInDaniaBeach
Time to give it a rest..Why would you post an old link with old news that meant nothing..
no wonder you have fostered so many friendships here
Bocephus
Please tell me you’re doing this stuff for a Psych class or something similar.
dust44
Not getting Kluber with Morejon being the “headliner” prospect
Polish Hammer
They certainly could depending on what other pieces are in play. They want a MLB bat for the corner OF and a reliever plus prospects.
BasedBallGuru
I somehow got downvoted for pointing that out, but that really should be obvious to anyone with half a clue. 3 top 100 prospects and a top overall for Sale. They expect a handful of 50+ range prospects to even sniff that value theyre nuts. You would need like 5 guys in the top 100 with a headliner that low to even get a serious response. Youre talking the difference in a potential star, and a potential starter..
Knowthemarket
Morejon is a top 50 prospect. Why couldn’t he headline? You might have to throw in two top 100 prospects but just for the sake of argument, the Padres can throw in 3 top 100 prospects to go with Morejon and still keep their five prospects.
I see two problems with this though. The Indians are looking for major league ready talent. Maybe they can tempt the Indians with Morejon, two other top 100 prospects and Renfroe?
Despite that I am not that optimistic about Renfroe, the other problem is, that is just an awful lot to pay for a pitcher that is turning 33 in April even if he is an ace. I would much prefer the Padres not repeat their 2015 mistake and trade away their prospect talent to artificially create a team to contend. Let some of these prospects develop and blossom. When you have a core to build around. Then trade what will still be promising prospects for the remaining pieces you need.
Carrington Spensor
Why do you keep saying the same thing over and over?
This Kluber/Padres stuff has all been said a thousand times.
Start a new rumor – Betts and Trout being traded to the Orioles for prospects, draft choices, and cash.
rocky7
You saying top 50 prospect pretty much declares this guy is #49….if he isnt in the top 10, you aint getting Kluber.
A much much better return is needed to get the Indians interested.
Polish Hammer
#49 could do it depending on what other mlb contributing talent goes with him.
JayRyder
Breaking News. Bryce Harper to the Nats !
Cat Mando
Phillies main target has always been Manny. Meeting with Bryce is more due diligence than anything.
hawaiiphil
meeting with harper so that they can help raise the price the dodgers or nats have to pay for him and use the meeting as leverage to get Manny to sign in philly.
I think manny is now limited to phils or white sox. harper to nats or dodgers
wrigleywannabe
Only way they drive the price up is if the offer a contract
Philliesfan4life
I will be really shocked if they did sign both of them, But I prefer Harper over Machado right now. I wanted Machado before the playoffs but his actions in the playoffs changed my mind, unless he changes. Then finish it all off by trading for a starter or signing keuchel.
harmoney101575
Angels gonna get Machado…. Harper to the braves
Philliesfan4life
Im both an angels and phillies fan , but I wouldn’t mind that at all because the angels need more bats in their line up, but they need pitching more then hitting.
pustule bosey
i would be surprised if the angels signed either, they’re living with the results of the Pujols signing and would think that they don’t want to repeat it
ThatBallwasBryzzoed
Other than not hustling Machado didnt do anything wrong in the playoffs. If you’re talking about stepping on the foot of the brewers foot. That was very clearly an accident.
thegreatcerealfamine
Cat that’s what I’ve always thought regarding Machado. I just can’t imagine the Phillies not topping any offer the White Sox make.
Cat Mando
Neither can I Cereal. I really doubt the plan was to sign both. Sign Manny this year and wait/try for Trout in FA….he will test FA
thegreatcerealfamine
They can always add a sp next year, and yes I believe Trout will indeed wade in the waters of free agency.
throwinched10
Dodgers will trade for Kluber. They got Martin to split with Barnes and won’t go after Realmuto now. They will use those prospects towards Kluber.
Philliesfan4life
Don’t count out philly if they get harper or machado to get kluber
throwinched10
I could see them trading for Mike Minor or signing Keuchel.
Philliesfan4life
I agree , they need a lefty in the rotation.
Polish Hammer
Philly doesn’t have the right combo of players/prospects to work the right deal.
IvyCoveredWalls
Batting average? Your entire comment is based on batting average.
Tim Newport
This guy was so proud of his stupid snarky comment, which gets posted every time anyone mentions batting average – I guess because it makes the 80IQ crowd feel smart – that he had to post it twice.
Oh wait, I see…it’s a Cubs fan! That explains everything…
IvyCoveredWalls
Slow wifi at work so it posted twice you jag off.
Get over yourself.
Backatitagain
Braves could offer Kolby Allred, Julio Teheran and Darren O’Day for Corey Kluber. Or if the Padres want a prospect pitcher to flip to Cleveland, the Braves could send Kolby Allred to the Padres for Renfroe
adshadbolt1
Not enough prospect value for Indians and they want a close to big league ready bat, braves want him the deal is Riley, a pitcher one of the 10 they have and another prospect
sdhitman19
The Padres are shipping out Renfroe it sure wouldn’t be for Allred. And besides they have plenty of prospects pitchers already that they could ship to Cleveland.
norcalguardiansfan
Cleveland counters with Ender Inciarte, Mike Soroka and Austin Riley.
DTD
If the Braves offered that for Kluber, no one would ever answer a call from them again. That’s horrendous.
ohiocat5908
My god Backatit, that’s worse than the awful SDP suggestions. When will people realize you can’t get Kluber with your castoffs and B level prospects?
norcalguardiansfan
I’ve posted these link in other threads, but they really are worth a read.
blogs.fangraphs.com/2018-trade-value-1-to-10/
blogs.fangraphs.com/an-update-to-prospect-valuatio…
Take away #1: Kluber is one of the most valuable players in all of baseball.
Take away #2: There is no single prospect who the Indians should take for Kluber, and prospect value drops off precipitously after the top guys.
My personal take away: about half of the top prospects either underperform or flame out entirely.
Ergo: the Indians should only trade Kluber for a Sale-like haul. If other teams don’t like it, we can keep him.
Crazytrain10
I think the Braves could get it done for Kluber without sending Riley. CLE want a CF too so Braves could highlight a package with Wright/Pache/Allard and maybe a wildcard for Kluber.
hockeyjohn
As it has been said many, many times on this site, Cleveland is looking for MLB or MLB ready players at a position of need, corner outfield as well as other players and prospects that help them in 2019 and beyond. Pache is not ready for 2019. Atlanta is not the best match to meet the Indians needs. If they did a deal with Atlanta, Riley would have to be in the deal as he is the closest to be ready in 2019.
megaj
Funny, how the Indians don’t have an outfield and the Cubs have a bunch they could care less about other than Schwarber. They could take Happ, Almora, and Heyward for Kluber. That would actually give them the best OF in their division lol.
hockeyjohn
Cleveland is not taking Heyward’s horrible contract. They are a small market team thinking of trading Kluber to fix other needs because they do not have money. So you propose Heyward? I wish people would think of both team’s needs before proposing trades here. At least then we can then have an educated discussion.
megaj
It was just a hypothetical, quit acting like anything posted here means anything set in stone. OF COURSE the Cubs are trying to move Heyward. OF COURSE it is a terrible contract. OF COURSE the Cubs would have to take on some of his remaining contract. It was a simple post. Indians need outfielders. Cubs have some to offer! Even without Heyward it is close to being a good deal. I swear the people that post here make the Facebook crowd look like geniuses. Too many people here try to act smarter than everyone else. Just be a fan and be cordial… or maybe stick to hockey.
hockeyjohn
Happ and Almora would not be enough to get Kluber and adding Heyward makes it less of a viable trade. My point was that people need to look at the other team’s needs when putting up a proposal. A small market team would never be an option to take on a contract like Heyward, Will Meyers of the Padres, or Matt Kemp of the Reds. I don’t feel my point was said in a rude way. Your line about sticking to hockey was said in more of a rude way than my point was. Perhaps you should practice what you preach megal.
Z-A 2
So for the Cubs to get in on Harper they need to dump Heyward and Darvish. If they found a team willing to take on those two, wonder who they throw in to make it palatable. Their farm system is pretty empty.
megaj
A team would take Heyward in a trade if the Cubs threw in something the other team wanted and shaved 8-10 million off the annual contract owed to him. For instance, Cubs could probably convince SF to take Heyward and either Happ, Almora, Bote, or Edwards for Madbum.
Philliesfan4life
Phillies sign Harper or Machado , then make a trade for Kluber or Bauer. Then spend more stupid money on Keuchel. Offseason complete
Polish Hammer
And who would Philly trade for Kluber? They don’t have the right pieces to swing it.
Philliesfan4life
Yea they do , they have plenty of prospects to get the trade. Im sure the Indians will want outfield and pitching. Medina plus Herrera or Williams., Or a outfield prospect in the system. I think that gets it done.
ohiocat5908
Not even close. None of the OF on the Phillies are more than a third piece in a Kluber deal. And Medina is an ok second piece.
Polish Hammer
Not looking for prospects, but contributions in the majors today along with a top prospect.
Houston We Have A Solution
Wrong. The Phillies could easily offer sixto sanchez (top 30) and Adonis medina (top 70) plus hasely and an MLB ready arm in de Los Santos.
They could offer that. Whether they should or shouldn’t is another issue but philly has prospects to get a deal done for Kluber if they wish.
Polish Hammer
Cleveland wants a major league bat that plays OF, not just a package of prospects. They need MLB help today! Add to that OF a good reliever and a top flight prospect and you have the beginning of a deal. Philly does not match up with that.
RedRooster
Padres have outfielders and relievers
Central Valley
Serious question. How is it that Madison Bumgarner, just about solely responsible for 3 world championships, has made such little money comparatively?
kenleyfornia2
Because he signed an early career extension
Central Valley
How is it that Madison Bumgarner, just about solely responsible for 3 world championships, has made such little money comparatively?
Cat Mando
5 years/$35M (2013-17), plus 2018-19 club options
signed extension with San Francisco 4/17/12
$1M signing bonus
13:$0.75M, 14:$3.75M, 15:$6.75M, 16:$9.75M, 17:$11.5M, 18:$12M club option ($1.5M buyout), 19:$12M club option ($1.5M buyout)
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/nl…
Central Valley
Thank you Cat
BlueSkyLA
I’ve never seen any evidence that Andrew Friedman is motivated even a tiny bit by fan sentiment.
Rich Stein
Nor should he! I’m not paying 350 mil to a guy who walks a lot!
GrandpaBaseball
So Trouty is nothing more than a fish fry? The great ones take a lot of base on balls because who wants to pitch to them. OBP means a considerable amount of attention.
Cat Mando
GrandpaBaseball……….
Open this baseball-reference.com/players/h/harpebr03.shtml
Now open this baseball-reference.com/players/t/troutmi01.shtml
compare the OBP and tell me why Trout’s is so much higher
John Egan
still wonder if the absence of Farhan Zaidi is impacting the Dodgers decision-making this off-season…
22Leo
Only in that they aren’t making bad deals with Oakland anymore. Zaidi isn’t a loss for the Dodgers at all.
Blue_Painted_Dreams_LA
If only they ever make a bad deal with the A’s this comment would make sense.
They don’t have intimate knowledge the A’s system anymore so there may not be another Muncy, but no I don’t think Farhan being gone changes much of anything. They basically churned the guys figured to be churned and are in the the guys you’d be assume they’d be in.
22Leo
Zaidi was clearly the main reason the Dodgers began trading so often with the A’s.
bkbk
Man, if someone gets Harper at or around 300/10 with no opt-outs, thats going to be a STEAL. This kid is 25 and has shown flashes of literally being the second best player in baseball multiple times. That contract captures what is statistically likely to be his WHOLE peak year bunch.
At 330/10 Arte Moreno can afford to have Trout and Harper on that payroll.
Maaku
80 million tops for Harper.. The teams that can afford 400 million don’t need him
The ones that do need him can take half that and buy three very good players
bkbk
Damn this comment had haters!
RedRooster
4 downvotes is haters? Xabial gets like double that minimum on every comment.
sigdawg25
why is it so important for these guys, in this case Harper, to surpass the last mega contract? 10 years 300 million isn’t enough? is another 30 million really going to make that much difference? this is obviously where it becomes all about egos.
ohiocat5908
Sale was traded for about $150 million of surplus value worth of prospects. How much surplus value do you guys think Kluber is worth using that as a guide/comp?
norcalguardiansfan
Kluber’s overall projected value through the end of his contract is a little more than $160m, assuming his options are picked up. His contract is worth about $52, so I’d say his surplus value is about $108.
Can you cite an article showing that Sale’s projected surplus value was that high? Looking at the numbers I’d say it was more like $120. His Overall value was more in line with the number you cite. His surplus value goes down quite a bit if he wins the Cy Young, this year.
ohiocat5908
blogs.fangraphs.com/an-update-to-prospect-valuatio…
blogs.fangraphs.com/putting-a-dollar-value-on-pros…
Using this as a guide. Moncada was rated a 70FV at the time of the deal. That gives him a value of $112 million. Kopech was the top rated 55FV on the top 100 at the time of the trade. Giving him a value of $45 million. The other two prospects were 40FV at the time, giving them a total value of $3 million. Add it all together and that gets you $160 million (so I actually low balled this a bit since I initially used the $34 million valuation for 55FV pitchers).
norcalguardiansfan
Ok. The Red Sox gave up $160 m in future value for a guy whose future value was about 160. All I’m saying is that Klubers future value is about the same. (As opposed to surplus value.). For instance, if momory serves, that $160m would rate a trade of Verdugo, Ruiz or Smith, Stripling or Santana and perhaps a relief pitcher – especially if Cleveland added a minor player or two.
That deal works for me.
A San Diego deal for Renfroe, Paddock, Morejon and perhaps A relief pitcher also works.
Maaku
80 million five years tops for Harper
Polish Hammer
That is an absolutely asinine comment.
Emerson83
I think the only reason he is out there is to see if they can get a haul similar to the chris sale trade. he may be 33 but he’s proven more durable than sale. most of the Padres fan offers on here are too light, it’s gonna take upper eschelon prospects not aaaa types
Polish Hammer
Padres fan make the most ludicrous trade proposals here bar none…
sufferforsnakes
If the Padres or Dodgers really wanted Kluber, a deal would have already been done.
Compo
I’m still hoping the Cubs can get Harper. Would love to watch him run right into that brick wall.
moazetongue
Four quarters in this scenario don’t make a dollar. In sports, it rarely does.
fieldsj2
You want one of the best pitchers in baseball, with a ridiculously team friendly contract. The Padres don’t want to give any of their top 5 prospects up. I don’t care how loaded the Padres farm system is, they’re prospects. Seems like a pretty easy decision for the Indians. Move on to another team or keep him. The Padres seem to think the Indians have to trade Kluber and he will only go to the Padres.
RedRooster
Padres top 5 prospects would all be #1 in the Indians system. Padres #6-9 prospects would be #2 in the Indians systems. Then the next few would probably rank above Ethan Hankins at #3. You need to start paying attention to actual value.
ohiocat5908
Speaking of value, the Red Sox gave up about $150 million of value in the Sale trade. How much value do you believe it should take to get Kluber?
Emerson83
Moncada and kopech were probably higher rated than anything san diegos got
jdgoat
Tatis and Gore are both rated higher than Kopech was. Both would have about the same value as Moncada.
ohiocat5908
Tatis is close to the same as Moncada. Gore isn’t close.
Emerson83
Ok, so then you start with those two in a trade for Kluber
sufferforsnakes
Padres top 5 prospects #1 in Cleveland’s system? Guess you haven’t heard of Triston McKenzie and Nolan Jones, just to name two?
jdgoat
It’s not that much of an exaggeration. Mejia was their number one prospect and is ranked three on SD. I think I’d probably put Urias ahead of McKenzie as well. Paddock is where I’d draw the line.
RedRooster
@sufferfortribe this isn’t me talking. MLBPipeline has the Padres’ top 5 prospects all ranked ahead of Triston McKenzie.
gv84
This MLB offseason is like the girl in high school you’ve been giving rides home after school all year and still haven’t gotten to 2nd base base. I would have said 1st base but pretty sure the Dodgers and Phillies are kissing Machado and Harper’s @$$. No baseball pun intended.
RATTY
Padres love their untouchable list….even Pirela …Go Rockstar!
Houston We Have A Solution
Pass on Kluber.
You dont have a replacement for 2B if you deal urias you don’t have a replacement for ss or 3b if you deal tatis jr. Paddack has looked like an ace climbing the ranks and should be given a chance to become an ace for the padres.
Gore, Mejia, Morejon, are really the only pieces the padres should look to be trading from their upper tier prospects. But only if you get 4+ years of control for a player (like the cubs did quintana).
I’d rather offer the tigers Mejia, Morejon, Renfroe, and Austin Allen to the tigers for Michael Fulmer
ohiocat5908
The Tigers wouldn’t be able to say yes fast enough.
Gleyborday
That’s what i thinking
RedRooster
@Pitches Love Velocity of their pitching prospects, Gore is the last one they should be looking to trade.
hockeyjohn
Michael Fulmer is no where near the pitcher that Kluber is.
RedRooster
And Preller already passed on him for Justin Upton’s last two months of control
bitterpadresfan
This rumor needs to end. Dumb idea for all involved.
ChiSoxCity
The Padres are smart for not trading any top prospects for Kluber. No rebuilding team should ever do this until a core of elite talent emerges on the big league team. That’s when you know you’re ready to contend, and that’s when you can start dealing from positions that are deep with talent.
Polish Hammer
Don’t forget to tune into Philly’s game tomorrow and watch Nick Foles’ value continue to climb…
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
Maybe, but he’s a lousy hitter…
Polish Hammer
But since that devastating Bears defense didn’t hit him much last week he should be fresh…
ChiSoxCity
The Bears looked like the superior team, but that has never stopped them before from blowing games before. The Eggles are very average with a statue for a QB. His lucky streak will run out sooner or later.
Polish Hammer
Superior team? You must’ve been watching the wrong game. That average team isn’t bad for being the defending World Champions with tons of holes due to injuries and that statue led them to a nice W on the road in the playoffs, not bad for a benchwarmer. Enjoy the offseason!
Djones246890
If The Ricketts family (Cubs owners) think Cubs fans are going to be satisfied with
one ring, and a budget the size of a small market team, they’re quickly going to find that they’re gonna go from hero to zero status, REAL QUICK.
For the amount of money they pull in, and the fact that they own TDAmeritrade, there is absolutely no reason on Earth that they shouldn’t be shattering that luxury tax threshold.
Now, I fully understand that there are some international draft repercussions, but if you need a guy like Harper, you go out and get him. Plain and simple.
megaj
I agree with everything you said, except needing Harper
bosoxforlife
If the Indians want a Chris Sale type package they better beware. Moncada can’t play, Basabe might be a fourth outfielder, Kopech’s arm is already falling off and Diaz is nowhere to be found. Wow, with many more hauls like that the White Sox might lose another 100 games.
ohiocat5908
They’re talking about value. The White Sox traded for farther away prospects which increases risk. The Indians want about the same amount of value, but current MLB players and close to MLB ready prospects to make up that value.
ChiSoxCity
Boston underpaid for Sale.
Moncada has been in the league how long? Dope.
RedRooster
Boston is going to lose Sale after this year. When are the ChiSox going to lose Moncada and Kopech?
believeland
The Padres really don’t have what the Indians are looking for. Renfroe would be a decent starting piece, but he’s easily a step below what other teams have to offer (Verdugo, Senzel). It’s possible that instead of a real “headliner” the Indians would take Renfroe, a good bullpen arm, and two of the Padres 6-10 prospects. But that’s probably what it would take, when their top 5 are off the board…not that they’re what Cleveland is looking for anyways.
RedRooster
Remember that the Padres’ top 5 would all rank #1 in Cleveland’s system and 6-9 would rank #2
believeland
I’m well aware of how good the Padres system is, honestly it might be one of the best I’ve ever seen. Without a very high end outfield prospect (of which the Padres have none), it would take 4 pieces that were more comparable. Which is why I think Renfroe, one of their good ‘pen arms (Yates, or one of the young guys, they have a few that did well last year), and two of their 6-10 guys.
That’s a young MLB outfielder (which the Padres have many), a bullpen arm (that one might hurt a bit), and two of their TEN top 100 prospects (my preference would be Morejon and Logan Allen). The Padres could do it easily. But would they?
RedRooster
I’ll give you that the Padres system is pitching heavy. Although they also have guys like Austin Hedges, Manuel Margot and Hunter Renfroe who no longer qualify as prospects but were top 100 prospects when they graduated, are still controlled for 4-5 years, have shown flashes and maybe have some untapped potential.
I think the two sides could be a match, but both sides appear to overvalue their pieces.
believeland
But Hedges is a catcher (which we just took care of), Margot hasn’t looked like anything more than a speedy 4th outfielder, and Renfroe I included. Their guys that have come up haven’t been the best.
tenncub
Expect the Cubs to make a move or 2 this week. If they don’t, Theo and Ricketts may want to stay away from next week’s Cub convention.
ChiSoxCity
lol, don’t hold your breath. The Cubs can’t do anything with Heyward and Darvish on the roster. The Ricketts family can’t be too impressed with Theo’s free agent acquisitions.
JFactor
I mean, they could package someone like Bote with Chatwood to free some cash. Or do something like that, if they decide to.
rainbirdmuse
Friedman feels no pressure at all from the Dodger fan base. He keeps the big picture in mind, breaking the Braves’ record for consecutive division championships. Winning a title would distract from that goal. The idea is to be good, but not quite good enough. If you can’t wait eight more years, there is an interim goal, Another loss in 2019 would tie the Giants and the Tigers as the only three time consecutive series losers. It would also mean the Dodgers tie the Yankees for most Series losses at 13.. It’s gonna be a historic year at Chavez Ravine.
El Kabong
Fans in other cities know the Dodger fan base is not the brightest. You are a prime Thankfully, Friedman doesn’t listen to you burger flippers.
Mikel Grady
Thank goodness Ricketts are smart enough to not let Theo sign Harper .
jh8913
Lol no one wants to play in philly. That’s priceless, place is a dump with the worst fans
tony gwynn
This endless rumor is nothing more than AJP kicking the tires to see if CLE is dumb enough to trade Kluber for a middling package. There’s nothing wrong with trying.
Kluber still isn’t an obvious fit for a rebuild strategy where the Padres won’t have any shot at contending until 2021. The only way it makes any sense is if they steal him from Cleveland for some excess OF, a decent RP, and some lower ranked prospects. Cleveland would be stupid to accept that deal, so it’s not happening unless one side has a change of heart.
ChiSoxCity
Cleveland will get more for Kluber if they wait until the trade deadline. That’s typically when contending teams decide to go “all in” and package their prospects for pitching or a bat.
Polish Hammer
And with Cleveland themselves most likely in that same playoff push it would be the absolute dumbest time for them to deal their “ace”…nice try genius!
RedRooster
Nailed it
tedwilliamzpopsiclehead
2021? Please.
JFactor
If the Cubs ownership will approve a deal, he’s gonna be a Cub. And as a Cards fan, that would be scary for a few years, but I imagine it’ll make the next rebuild for the cubs that much harder eventually.
I feel like Harper is waiting for the Cubs to get involved. If they won’t, then he’ll go back to Washington.
If they do, he’ll become a Cub
YADI
the phillies should be thanking boras they didnt sign jd drew
Bill Skiles
Here we go again with Friedman, ssdd. No Harper, no Machado, no Realmuto, no Castenellos, no LeMahieu, no Kubler, no Bauer, just the same old stink (Schultz and Martin) woo hoo!!